I am close to the end of my 150" DIY screen build (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14626190#post14626190) and need to start shopping for speakers to replace the ones that came with my Sony HTIB.

EDIT: Added the two pics below...first is the original plan, second is current but not complete
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/Audixium/Screenwall_non_at.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/Audixium/CIMG0413-1.jpg

You will see I have a dilemna regarding speaker placement. The house was wired for 5.1, with the center opposite the windows. When I changed the orientation by adding the projector, I simply reconnected the satellites differently to the receiver. This is far from ideal, but works ok. The larger issue is that I don't think I can go with towers unless it is something like the DefTech Mythos line. Even then the right channel would be partially blocked by the couch.

So, I'm asking for anyone's advice regarding going with a better satellite system than the Sonys (including a rewire/placement of the left channel to match the right) vs. some way to integrate slim towers. I'm concerned that the required tower placement due to the screen size might put them too close to the walls.

I originally was thinking $500 for LCR (JBL L820 + LC2) , but now am thinking that going up to $1k might allow more flexibility.

Here is the current setup (will probably replace the receiver with an Onkyo TX-SR606 within the next six months)
HTIB: HT-DDW650 (similar to HT-1800DP (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11029057))

Receiver: Sony STR-K650P
Front/Surround: SS-MSP75
Center: SS-CNP75
Sub: SA-WMSP85

Thoughts?

I am close to the end of my 150" DIY screen build (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14626190#post14626190) and need to start shopping for speakers to replace the ones that came with my Sony HTIB.

If you jump over to that link you will see I have a dilemna regarding speaker placement. The house was wired for 5.1, with the center opposite the windows. When I changed the orientation by adding the projector, I simply reconnected the satellites differently to the receiver. This is far from ideal, but works ok. The larger issue is that I don't think I can go with towers unless it is something like the DefTech Mythos line. Even then the right channel would be partially blocked by the couch.

So, I'm asking for anyone's advice regarding going with a better satellite system than the Sonys (including a rewire/placement of the left channel to match the right) vs. some way to integrate slim towers. I'm concerned that the required tower placement due to the screen size might put them too close to the walls.

I originally was thinking $500 for LCR (JBL L820 + LC2) , but now am thinking that going up to $1k might allow more flexibility.

Here is the current setup (will probably replace the receiver with an Onkyo TX-SR606 within the next six months)
HTIB: HT-DDW650 (similar to HT-1800DP (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11029057))

Receiver: Sony STR-K650P
Front/Surround: SS-MSP75
Center: SS-CNP75
Sub: SA-WMSP85

Thoughts?
Those tiny speakers look funny next to that huge screen. :)

If I were you I'd re-wire the speaker cable so it comes out lower. This will allow you to mount bookshelf sized speakers on the wall. For $1000 I recommend something sealed such as the Salk Sound HTS series or the NHT Classic 2's.

There are all kinds of on walls you could use - search some threads - and you could put them in the right place if you don't mind running a little cable. They even make flat, paintable cable, which is expensive but you'd only need several feet to get to the right place.

Three NHT L5s (http://www.listenup.com/NHT+L5+Silver+-Clearance--p-L5SILVER-p-12780358.html) would do justice to that screen, though there are lots of smaller speakers along the same general lines.

You need to use a sub with any on walls, you won't get bass out of small cabinets and small drivers.

You could put a center above the screen.

Have you thought about going slightly smaller on your screen size so you would have some room to work with?

Those tiny speakers look funny next to that huge screen. :)

If I were you I'd re-wire the speaker cable so it comes out lower. This will allow you to mount bookshelf sized speakers on the wall. For $1000 I recommend something sealed such as the Salk Sound HTS series or the NHT Classic 2's.

They are tiny! And yes, it is huge!

I'm completely open to going with on walls and rewiring. I just am not sure that I have enough room on the sides - worried about dispersion. If you jump over to the top of that build thread you can see in a diagram I have some on-walls in the plan. But I doubt those bookshelves you mentioned would rate high on the WAF scale.

Thanks for the feedback.

There are all kinds of on walls you could use - search some threads - and you could put them in the right place if you don't mind running a little cable. They even make flat, paintable cable, which is expensive but you'd only need several feet to get to the right place.

Three NHT L5s (http://www.listenup.com/NHT+L5+Silver+-Clearance--p-L5SILVER-p-12780358.html) would do justice to that screen, though there are lots of smaller speakers along the same general lines.

You need to use a sub with any on walls, you won't get bass out of small cabinets and small drivers.

You could put a center above the screen.

I've been exploring on walls. Those NHTs don't look too bad. I've seen a lot of similar types. Those types are my first choice so I can get the RL tweeters at ear level. But like I said I'm concerned that they will be only a foot from the side walls. Does that matter in this situation?

I'm using the sub that came with my Sony HTIB. I will probably replace it with one of those ID brands that are highly rated in these parts.

Center above is an interesting thought. I've seen that in a number of dedicated theater builds and read folks who think it isn't a good idea. What is the benefit of above vs below?

Have you thought about going slightly smaller on your screen size so you would have some room to work with?

Russ - that monster took a bunch of time to build (check out the thread I linked to). Even if I was willing to build another from scratch (time, materials, blood - cause snipped metal is sharp, etc) I still wouldn't go smaller. The prime seating location is 17' from the screen which is about 1.5x screen width - the "recommended" distance. Plus, the back of the room opens up to the kitchen area. It's great to be over 30' away and see a huge crystal clear HD image.

So I did favor maximum screen size over audio. Now I'm left to do the best I can...

I'm completely open to going with on walls and rewiring. I just am not sure that I have enough room on the sides - worried about dispersion. If you jump over to the top of that build thread you can see in a diagram I have some on-walls in the plan. But I doubt those bookshelves you mentioned would rate high on the WAF scale.
You got a 150-inch screen but you still have to worry about WAF for bookshelf speakers? :confused::confused::eek::p

You got a 150-inch screen but you still have to worry about WAF for bookshelf speakers? :confused::confused::eek::p

ROTFLMAO - that certainly puts it in perspective doesn't it! I think I need to go locate a pair now...:o

So the other day I went and auditioned about 15 minutes of audio and 15 minutes of trailers on some Klipsch Reference Series floorstanders and Definitive Tech towers with the powered woofers. Then I promptly located my stones and decided I had to have floorstanders.

While researching towers I came across the BIC Acoustech thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=990726) and it sounds like a great value. Is there anything I should be wary of with these?

Why don't you think towers would work? One on either side of the screen, unless you're concerned about that couch blocking sound.

I like my Acoustechs a lot. If you prefer a dome tweeter over horn loaded drivers or just want a nice wood veneer, AV123 also has a couple of good specials going on.

http://**********/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,273/category_id,19/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/
http://**********/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,279/category_id,51/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/

For the package with the rockets, you get the sub now but you have to wait for the rest of the speakers for a couple of months. But it is a great deal.

I thought they would be too close to the corners. But the Acoustechs are front ported...and after hearing auditioning the Klipsch Reference Series and Def Techs I've become convinved that I MUST have towers!

I just want to throw this in about the Onkyo 606. If you go with that receiver, while it's a good receiver, it might be a bit weak to drive tower speakers like you want it to. You may consider stepping up to a more powerful receiver, or one with preouts so you can use an external amp.

As far as your center speaker goes, how much space is between your screen and the wall? Is that material acoustically transparent so that you could wall-mount a center channel speaker behind the screen? If so then you could mount it at ear level height just like your left and right.

I like my Acoustechs a lot. If you prefer a dome tweeter over horn loaded drivers or just want a nice wood veneer, AV123 also has a couple of good specials going on.

http://**********/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,273/category_id,19/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/
http://**********/component/page,shop.product_details/flypage,shop.flypage/product_id,279/category_id,51/manufacturer_id,0/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,37/

For the package with the rockets, you get the sub now but you have to wait for the rest of the speakers for a couple of months. But it is a great deal.

Mike - love that thread! I do like the horns, and a black finish is preferred in my case. One of the things I really like about the Acoustechs is their smaller depth dimension (those Rockets - while probably in a different class - are too deep). From what I've read the front porting will help with my limited placement issue. Is there anything else out there similar to compare?

I just want to throw this in about the Onkyo 606. If you go with that receiver, while it's a good receiver, it might be a bit weak to drive tower speakers like you want it to. You may consider stepping up to a more powerful receiver, or one with preouts so you can use an external amp.

As far as your center speaker goes, how much space is between your screen and the wall? Is that material acoustically transparent so that you could wall-mount a center channel speaker behind the screen? If so then you could mount it at ear level height just like your left and right.

I'm planning on the Yammy 663 as a baseline for now. A guy from BIC said my current receiver could power them just fine and not risk damaging the speakers. The guy at Ultimate Electronics said (of course) I would need a more powerful one.

The screen surface is about 3" out from the wall. I had originally planned an acoustically transparent screen (Sheerweave 4500), mounting it about 8" out from the wall, and going with the JBL Studio L820s+LC2 behind the screen. I may go AT in the future, but I think for now I'm going to stay with a horizontal center below.

why dont you just get in-wall speakers and put them behind the screen. i would take a look at triad if i were you.

why dont you just get in-wall speakers and put them behind the screen. i would take a look at triad if i were you.

I thought about closed back in-walls - in fact the Triads were a top contender. But pretty much everything I read said that decent in-walls are more expensive than their in room counterparts and don't perform as well.

Most importantly, the wife didn't want holes cut in the drywall. So now, she is going to get towers. :D

I just want to throw this in about the Onkyo 606. If you go with that receiver, while it's a good receiver, it might be a bit weak to drive tower speakers like you want it to. You may consider stepping up to a more powerful receiver, or one with preouts so you can use an external amp.

As far as your center speaker goes, how much space is between your screen and the wall? Is that material acoustically transparent so that you could wall-mount a center channel speaker behind the screen? If so then you could mount it at ear level height just like your left and right.

This very much depends on the speakers. I had some old dinky HTiB onkyo speakers and when I connected my acoustechs I didnt have to turn up the volume nearly as much as with the little onkyo speakers. The acoustech speakers that I got are just very very efficient. So it very much depends on the speakers. If the speakers your are looking at has a sensitivity in the 80's db then you might be looking for a bit more headroom... maybe not too

Mike - love that thread!

Thanks :)

I thought about closed back in-walls - in fact the Triads were a top contender. But pretty much everything I read said that decent in-walls are more expensive than their in room counterparts and don't perform as well.



Incorrect as hell. :p

Triad inwalls use the same drivers and crossovers, the same type of enclosure, and the same cabinet volume so the inwall, inceiling, incorner, inroom, onwall, etc. versions sounds virtually the same. And the inwalls cost around 10% more than the inroom versions.

And a few more unsolicited comments...:rolleyes:

1) Your screen is too big, unless your seating area is 19' away. You are giving up brightness, contrast, detail, color, and black level just to have a screen that big.

B) A robust satellite speaker on a stand with a good sub will cream a floorstanding speaker almost always. Most people desire Big Speakers because they appear more manly. Peer pressure, dude. :D

I assume I have been of immense help...Best of luck. :D:D:D

This very much depends on the speakers. I had some old dinky HTiB onkyo speakers and when I connected my acoustechs I didnt have to turn up the volume nearly as much as with the little onkyo speakers. The acoustech speakers that I got are just very very efficient. So it very much depends on the speakers. If the speakers your are looking at has a sensitivity in the 80's db then you might be looking for a bit more headroom... maybe not too

Thanks :)


I definitely agree that more efficient speakers will do better with less power, but I guess I should have been a bit more specific. I think (and this is just my opinion) that if he goes with a nice 2-way or even 3-way speaker he would probably be Ok. But if he starts getting into towers that have 4 or 5 or more drivers in them, then he may find that receiver a bit weak.

Incorrect as hell. :p

Triad inwalls use the same drivers and crossovers, the same type of enclosure, and the same cabinet volume so the inwall, inceiling, incorner, inroom, onwall, etc. versions sounds virtually the same. And the inwalls cost around 10% more than the inroom versions.


Ok, so maybe I didn't spend enough time researching...


And a few more unsolicited comments...:rolleyes:


Your comments are always welcome. :)


1) Your screen is too big, unless your seating area is 19' away. You are giving up brightness, contrast, detail, color, and black level just to have a screen that big.


My eyes are at about 17'-18'. I prefer just a little less than 1.5x screen width. And I'm cool with the sacrifices. Frankly, even upconverted DVDs have amazing detail, color, and contrast. My Craptastic HD channels look amazing when they aren't macroblocking and the original source from the broadcaster is decent. Black level - well I'm not trying to mimic a CRT in my living room. ;)


B) A robust satellite speaker on a stand with a good sub will cream a floorstanding speaker almost always. Most people desire Big Speakers because they appear more manly. Peer pressure, dude. :D


Are you trying to stir things up around here? :eek: What is your definition of robust? Does the Klipsch RVX-42 qualify?


I assume I have been of immense help...Best of luck. :D:D:D

You've forgotten more about speakers and acoustics than I'll ever learn. So please, by all means provide as much help as you like! :)

Correction: I've forgetten EVERYTHING about speakers I've ever learned. :p

If you're sitting back that far, your screen isn't really to big, but you'll push the limitations of any front projector other than a light valve. Maybe install a high-beam from a new M3...

For a "big" sound, I would look at speaker sensitivity and power handling; not so much size. There are lots of huge floorstanders that are 87 dB, and lots of satellites that are 92 or higher. Midrange drivers and tweeters aren't bigger in floorstanders than satellites. It's just that they always use a separate woofer that will reproduce the lower octave better.

The Epson is "rated" at 1600 lumens. I probably run it at about 1000. Not exactly a light canon, but at night it looks like a huge plasma, even with all ten cans lights at 100% in the kitchen. Oh yeah, and I'm banking on LED projectors and 3000 lumens by 2010.

Thanks for the tips about sensitivity (my wife will appreciate that one) and power handling. What would you consider to be the minimum midrange driver size for 90% HT and 10% music? 4"? 4 1/2"? 5"? 5 1/2" ;)?

The Epson is "rated" at 1600 lumens. I probably run it at about 1000. Not exactly a light canon, but at night it looks like a huge plasma, even with all ten cans lights at 100% in the kitchen. Oh yeah, and I'm banking on LED projectors and 3000 lumens by 2010.

Thanks for the tips about sensitivity (my wife will appreciate that one) and power handling. What would you consider to be the minimum midrange driver size for 90% HT and 10% music? 4"? 4 1/2"? 5"? 5 1/2" ;)?

It's really less about driver size, and more about subwoofer/mid-range integration. If you pick up a front/satellite/tower speaker that can handle down to 80hz at -3db (even with a 4" mid), most any subwoofer worth its weight in MDF can play up to 80hz and you should be able to smoothly integrate the two. My tower speakers use 5 1/2" drivers, and they CAN play down to 38hz (due to the special Transmission line design of the enclosure) but I only let them play down to 80hz :)

-Chad

The Epson is "rated" at 1600 lumens. I probably run it at about 1000.

Is it the UB? Didn't Jason Turk and Tom Huffman say that one should actually expect about 300-350 lumens after calibration on that?

Thanks for the tips about sensitivity (my wife will appreciate that one) and power handling. What would you consider to be the minimum midrange driver size for 90% HT and 10% music? 4"? 4 1/2"? 5"? 5 1/2" ;)?

I would suspect that you'd want at least 5.5. Or bigger.


If you're sitting back that far, your screen isn't really to big, but you'll push the limitations of any front projector other than a light valve. Maybe install a high-beam from a new M3...

Or you can use a high power screen like I do. 2.8x gain, granted the narrower viewing cone and lack of AT.

Ok, so this may be Paul's point. If you set the crossover at 80 for towers, why not use satellites that can be set at that level (assuming they are "rated" a tad lower)?

Josten - not the UB, just the HC720. And I run it in a modified Dynamic mode (just "calibrated" for black/white level using Avia) for TV, and then modified Natural or modified Living Room for movies.

High Power? For now I'm planning on painting the screen and getting some reflective gain via C&S, Silver Fire, or Black Widow. I'm going to experiment with greys and gain on the cheap (ie: paint). Once I find something that I like I would be willing to drop the cash on a commercial screen. I really enjoyed Tryg's review of his HP screen.

Those tiny speakers look funny next to that huge screen. :)

.

Big screen Equals big speakers to me, but not big women. :p :eek:

Ok, so this may be Paul's point. If you set the crossover at 80 for towers, why not use satellites that can be set at that level (assuming they are "rated" a tad lower)?

I'm still searching for an answer on this. :o

For HT purposes, why would I need towers that go down to say, 35hz if I'm going to set the crossover at 80hz? I can see for 2ch music the towers' low end is important. But I'm at 95% HDTV/Movies, and 5% music in this room.

Why should I go with towers? :confused:

I'm still searching for an answer on this. :o

For HT purposes, why would I need towers that go down to say, 35hz if I'm going to set the crossover at 80hz? I can see for 2ch music the towers' low end is important. But I'm at 95% HDTV/Movies, and 5% music in this room.

Why should I go with towers? :confused:

More drivers = less work for each driver = longer life of the speaker. This of course assumes the tower has the more drivers compared to the bookshelf you're comparing it to. If you will never move your crossover point, and you don't mind using speaker stands instead of having speakers on the floor then there is no advantage to owning towers. The major expense with my speakers was drivers, not cabinet so the obvious choice was to go with towers in my setup. Not to mention I think they look much better than 2 bookshelves with the same driver configuration on speaker stands. I'd rather look at beautiful veneers than stands :D I also think they're much more sturdy this way.

It's really a matter of personal preference when using speakers in a home theater and with a capable subwoofer 100% of the time.

Big screen Equals big speakers to me, but not big women. :p :eek:
What's wrong with big women? They keep you warm in the winter,shade you in the summer and you always have snacks :p

What's wrong with big women? They keep you warm in the winter,shade you in the summer and you always have snacks :p

But I'd rather have a chick who looks like those girls that sit on the hoods of those pimped out cars at auto competitions. :p

Yeah me to I can go buy my own snacks :)

what's wrong with big women? They keep you warm in the winter,shade you in the summer and you always have snacks :p

qft!

But I'd rather have a chick who looks like those girls that sit on the hoods of those pimped out cars at auto competitions. :p


Too bad you will never even talk to one much less have one.

Too bad you will never even talk to one much less have one.

:rolleyes:

Here is my current custom in-wall design Im working on right now...

http://www.penngray.com/HTRoom/100_0424.JPG


With that wall and that screen, build a big array of speakers and control them all actively....you will never look back wondering if you could buy a better speakers!!!

Raymon Leggs, do you have to ruin someone's thread with childish BS!!

Can we not just keep on topic and help the OP? If you choose not to help how about just not posting in his thread.

Can you build a false wall instead move the screen out 4 feet and place monster speakers behind the false wall and screen....that is truely the better HT room design (I could not do it myself though :( )

Here is my current custom in-wall design Im working on right now...

http://www.penngray.com/HTRoom/100_0424.JPG


With that wall and that screen, build a big array of speakers and control them all actively....you will never look back wondering if you could buy a better speakers!!!

Is that a ribbon tweeter I see? :D

Can you build a false wall instead move the screen out 4 feet and place monster speakers behind the false wall and screen....that is truely the better HT room design (I could not do it myself though :( )

Unfortunately not in my (and the wife & kids) living room. I'm planning a semi-dedicated room in the basement that will have a false screenwall with an acoustically transparent screen and more hi-fi level gear. Here, since it is "just" the living room I'm keeping it fairly simple.

Here is a more up to date pic with a little better perspective. Is there a final verdict? What am I really giving up if I got with those Klipsch RVX-42 for the LCRs? Would I really gain that much by going with towers? I'm still confused :confused:...
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/Audixium/CIMG0490.jpg

Wouldn't it be weird to have a speaker firing into someones ears? especially if the tweeter is by the couch.

You could mount some shelves higher up on the wall and put some Large bookshelf speakers and a center up over the screen.

You got a 150-inch screen but you still have to worry about WAF for bookshelf speakers? :confused::confused::eek::p

ROTFLMAO - that certainly puts it in perspective doesn't it! I think I need to go locate a pair now...:o

To wrap things up, I found a pair ;) and thought I'd share my decision.

I picked up some Klipsch RF-62's and matching center today (also a Denon 1909 and Panny BDP35K). :D

Sorry to resurrect an ancient thread, but for those who end up here via a search I thought I'd post the final results...

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff254/Audixium/LivingRoom_postPaintCurtains2.jpg

WOW! I can't describe in words the difference. If you can go with floorstanders I say do it! :cool: I have full, all encompassing sound during movies. When I fire up XBMC as a music jukebox and go direct (no sub) for 2CH music I am absolutely amazed.

Sorry I was so naive in the beginning to think that ANY thin wall mounted speaker (that didn't cost an annual salary) could compete.

Looks good dude. I like the color change as well.

Klipsch horns were a good choice, and the placement you have works well for them.

Good choices all around.