I have a Pioneer 610 dvd recorder and some denon upconvert player which model number I don't remember.

Issues:
1. When hooking up the denon player via hdmi (obviously the only way to upconvert to 1080p) EVERYTHING that is not 16:9 is distorted. It simply stretches it to fill the screen. That is what they consider upconverted to 1080p??? A picture in the wrong ratio?

2. Black abrs on all sides of widescreen programs when viewed/recorded through the dvd recorder. I got what I believe is the latest cable box (8130, I believe it is) and it does not solve that issue.

I currently amw aiting on cables from monoprice because I broke my only hdmi cable. Usually I have had cable box hooked up via component, dvd recorder only via composite to the tv and composite to the cable box, and dvd player via hdmi to tv.

Once I get these cables I will have cable box to tv via hdmi, dvd player to tv via hdmi, dvd recorder to tv via component, dvd recorder to cable box via s-video.

hello.

Some cable boxes, even the latest ones, can't output anamorphic over s-video, which is what you'd need for full screen recordings. I don't know about the model number you posted. If you don't want 4:3 material stretched on your denon, you'll have to set it to letterbox 4:3, but keep your display type set to 16:9, if that's possible. It works that way on my panasonic.

Well what's the point of upconverting to 1080p if it's making things in 4:3 not look proportionally correct? Apparently only 16:9 is worth upconverting.

As for the cable box, it's just another example of how technology is moving backward, not forward. You can watch HD content, but then you can't even record it unless you want it having bars on all four sides. It's ridiculous. Also standard shows look terrible on HDTVs obviously. So really an HDTV is not even a no-brainer decision when most content is going to look like crap and 1% actually bein HD and then THAT 1% can't be recorded in widescreen on many dvd recorders.

Apparently it's not only the widescreen flag either because that issue is only for making things look proper when played back on a 4:3 tv, so I don't know what the deal is with this. A PAST cable box had it look exactly proper in widescreen when recorded.

I have a Pioneer 610 dvd recorder and some denon upconvert player which model number I don't remember.

Issues:
1. When hooking up the denon player via hdmi (obviously the only way to upconvert to 1080p) EVERYTHING that is not 16:9 is distorted. It simply stretches it to fill the screen. That is what they consider upconverted to 1080p??? A picture in the wrong ratio?

2. Black abrs on all sides of widescreen programs when viewed/recorded through the dvd recorder. I got what I believe is the latest cable box (8130, I believe it is) and it does not solve that issue.

I currently amw aiting on cables from monoprice because I broke my only hdmi cable. Usually I have had cable box hooked up via component, dvd recorder only via composite to the tv and composite to the cable box, and dvd player via hdmi to tv.

Once I get these cables I will have cable box to tv via hdmi, dvd player to tv via hdmi, dvd recorder to tv via component, dvd recorder to cable box via s-video.#1 is a function of your TV. I have a 50" plasma and an Oppo 981HD feeding it through HDMI. The Oppo takes the 720x480 frame off the DVD and upconverts to 1920x1080p before sending it over HDMI to the TV. The Oppo tells the plasma what the aspect ratio of the frame is. The plasma decides what to do with it. What it looks like on the display is a function of the TV's display format setting to control how it displays the image. When my plasma's format is set to "full" it displays 16:9 as a full screen, it letterboxes cinematic 2.35 aspect ratios to display the full width with black bars above and below and it chooses to horizonally stretch any 4:3 content to full screen width. If I don't like any of that I can push the plasma's format button to cycle through the modes and either zoom or pillarbox the content to display it as 4:3. Your Denon player is working the same way. You may need to get more familiar with your display's screen format modes.

#2 has been addressed by mdavej. Nearly all cable STB's do not output an anamorphic widescreen frame out the S-video port. They output a frame designed for a 4:3 aspect display that contains the letterboxed image. Thus, about 25% of the pixels in that frame are dedicated to black bars. If your display automatically stretches 4:3 content the image will look really bad. If displayed in native 4:3 you will have bars on all 4 sides. If isotropically zoomed it will fill the screen in native 16:9, but because so many pixels of the frame were used to encode black bars and not content, the zoomed image looks soft and fuzzy. This is their design choice, for whatever reason. I guess they figure that if you have a widescreen display you will at least be feeding it with component cables. It probably doesn't occur to them that no DVD recorders have component inputs -- or maybe it does since they rent DVR's (that last part was for citibear).

Anyway, this #2 problem has been a long standing issue here. It is why component inputs are usually at the top of cable subscribers' wish lists. And it is one of the major reasons cable users are screwed if they want to use a DVDR with their STB. It's one of the reasons I maintain my viewpoint that the only real market for DVD recorders is the OTA crowd.

Yeah I don't know what to do about it. Since I got the DVR cable box, I could record the 4:3 version of shows on the recorder and watch the HD version on the cable box itself. But it's VERY frustrating to have this horrible picture when recording 16:9.

I ntoiced when zooming it, it looked decent, but I think part of the picture may have still been cut off also.

As far as my tv goes (with the denon player), I have a sony tv and it will not allow "normal mode" when using an hdmni cable apparently. So I have to use full, zoom, or wide zoom. Well even in full mode it stretched 4:3. So basically there is no mode to make it look right when using an hdmi cable.

Like I said, technology sure is going backward for each step forward.

Anyway, this #2 problem has been a long standing issue here. It is why component inputs are usually at the top of cable subscribers' wish lists. And it is one of the major reasons cable users are screwed if they want to use a DVDR with their STB. It's one of the reasons I maintain my viewpoint that the only real market for DVD recorders is the OTA crowd.

My HD Tivo outputs 16:9 via the s-video cable.

-Bill

Yeah I don't know what to do about it. Since I got the DVR cable box, I could record the 4:3 version of shows on the recorder and watch the HD version on the cable box itself. But it's VERY frustrating to have this horrible picture when recording 16:9.
If you get too frustrated, there is a device that member nextoo tested that will convert your Component output to S-Video and retain 16:9 WS.

It's the Apple TV Converter (http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html)... pricey but nextoo's tests (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828063&highlight=apple+tv+converter) proved it does the job. He also said it doesn't pass copy-protection (CP) signals or broadcast flags (like PPV).

My HD Tivo outputs 16:9 via the s-video cable.

-BillThanks, that's very good to know since a TiVo HD may be in my future. But, of course a TiVo HD is not a cable co supplied STB.

If you get too frustrated, there is a device that member nextoo tested that will convert your Component output to S-Video and retain 16:9 WS.

It's the Apple TV Converter (http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html)... pricey but nextoo's tests (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828063&highlight=apple+tv+converter) proved it does the job. He also said it doesn't pass copy-protection (CP) signals or broadcast flags (like PPV).
I just went through a lot of trouble to hook the cable box up with an hdmi cable so I don't want to go back to component. For one thing I have no component inputs which aren't being used, so I would have to have something else hooked up with composite.

I just went through a lot of trouble to hook the cable box up with an hdmi cable so I don't want to go back to component. For one thing I have no component inputs which aren't being used, so I would have to have something else hooked up with composite.
I think you're "in reverse"... the converter takes Component output from tbe box and inputs it to your DVDR via S-Video in 16:9 format. It's supposed to be ideal for people with STBs that don't output 16:9 via S-Video but do over Component output.

I have a Sony HDTV, Panasonic EZ17 DVD recorder and Comcast HD STB (not a DVR).

Unfortunately the Panny has to record from the STB via S-Video which does screw things up. It shrinks the recorded picture all around, which wastes pixels recording all the black parts. However manually setting the TV to Full does expand the image to its original size & shape. Of course it’s not HD, but it will be 16:9 widescreen.

If the STB was outputting a floating letterbox picture which sometimes happens, the Panny still shrinks it, making it an even smaller postage stamp. Setting the TV to Full will expand it in order to view it at it’s original floating letterbox size. Then you can zoom in even further with the TV. Of course you're taking a hit in PQ by blowing up that small postage stamp image.

Anyway, this #2 problem has been a long standing issue here. It is why component inputs are usually at the top of cable subscribers' wish lists. And it is one of the major reasons cable users are screwed if they want to use a DVDR with their STB. It's one of the reasons I maintain my viewpoint that the only real market for DVD recorders is the OTA crowd.

I would amend this to include DVDR users with direct cable connections (i.e., no STB). We can get full screen 16:9 (not letterboxed) programs that record nicely on recorders with QAM digital tuners.

After February though, it is anyone's guess...

For the record, DirecTV DVR's also properly output widescreen over s-video.

I would amend this to include DVDR users with direct cable connections (i.e., no STB). We can get full screen 16:9 (not letterboxed) programs that record nicely on recorders with QAM digital tuners.

After February though, it is anyone's guess...


Yes indeed. My Panny EZ17 has a direct connection to Comcast cable in order to get the clear QAM channels. The HD 16:9 programs do record very nicely. It also has an S-Video connection to the STB for those times when I need it.

For the record, DirecTV DVR's also properly output widescreen over s-video.


With a caveat, they output a 4:3 image of a squeezed 16:9 ,full screen ,no bars, which you then unsqueeze by setting your TV on 16:9. This works very well ,and produces fairly decent video which you can output in 480i. If you set your DVD player to upscale to 480p or 1080i it will be automatically shrinked to 4:3.

Cheers.