I'm setting up a designated theater for the first time. Previously we've had the theater (including 96" projector screen) in our living/dinning room at our previous house.

The theater is also serving as my office/study/desk near the front. The room is 12x20, with the office and screen at the 12' side obviously. I'll have a riser and two rows of couch-like seating.

I have a budget audio setup:
Panasonic XR57 7.1 receiver
Velodyne VX10 sub
Velodyne CHT 5.0 surround speakers

My question is, should I add a couple of bigger/better bookshelf speakers (8-year old Paradigm Titans - I think they're 2-way 6.5" vs my existing 4.5" 2-ways) and use the 4 matched satellites as surrounds in a 7.1 setup.

My dad basically has these paradigm bookshelves lying around as they don't work in their new house and I thought since my room is kinda long and skinny and my new receiver does 7.1, maybe that's a good idea.

Do the advantages of having 7.1 in a 12x20 room outweigh the supposed 'unevenness' of a mis-matched soundstage along the front?

If you haven't guessed, I'm leaning towards doing it, just wanted some feedback. It's a bit of a big deal, as I have to carry the speakers back to India and I can't just easily give them back if I don't like how it sounds.

I suppose a third option is to still run 5.1 with the Paradigm's up front bi-amped, since they're I think a little less efficient than the Velos, although I hope to balance that with front channel level adjustment...

Thanks!

should I add a couple of bigger/better bookshelf speakers (8-year old Paradigm Titans - I think they're 2-way 6.5" vs my existing 4.5" 2-ways) and use the 4 matched satellites as surrounds in a 7.1 setupI would add the Paradigm bookshelves, but not up front. Even in this day and age of surround sound, the front soundstage remains critical. That's where most of your attention will be focused, whether watching a movie or listening to music.

With that in mind, better to keep the three Velodynes up front, for a consistent soundstage where sounds don't change as they move from left to right. The next most important speakers in a 7.1 set-up are the ones at your sides, since they will have to blend with the front L/R speakers in order to extend the soundstage and bring it out into the room. The least important speakers (relatively) are the ones behind you, since they will interact least with the front soundstage. Also, our human hearing is not so good behind us, making it a good location to hide a timber mismatch, since it won't be noticed as much.

Now it may seem like a waste to use your larger bookshelves as rear speakers, but maximizing the entire set-up is more important than trying to get the most out of a single pair of 8-year-old speakers. Certainly better than placing them up front and having a tonally mismatched front soundstage.

Finally, in a long (20-foot) room, you'll really notice the advantages of a 7.1-speaker layout. If you place your seating well away from the back wall, you should end up with excellent rear-vs-side directionality and stable imaging in the surround field. Hard to do that with only one pair of surrounds (they can't be in two places at once: at your sides and behind you).

Use the attached diagram as a starting point for your 7.1-speaker placement.

Good Luck,
Sanjay

Hey thanks that's helpful and it seems like pretty good thinking. So you're suggesting I put the paradigms as the surround-side, then?

My rationale for bigger/better up front was for fuller midrange, but your argument makes sense. Thanks.

So you're suggesting I put the paradigms as the surround-side, then?Nope, I was suggesting you use the Paradigms as surround-back. Since the surround-sides are adjacent to the fronts, it's helpful for them to be tonally similar in order to maintain consistent sound. And what will sound closer to your front L/R Velodynes than another pair of the same speakers? So the Paradigms get placed behind you, not at your sides. My rationale for bigger/better up front was for fuller midrange...Completely understandable, since it seems like a waste to not use the better bookshelves up front. However, when using one pair of dis-similar speakers in a 7.1 set-up, you're better off placing them at the back (where tonal differences will be least noticeable) rather than up front (where our human hearing is at its best and you're more likely to notice the mis-match).

Best,
Sanjay

(The least important speakers (relatively) are the ones behind you, since they will interact least with the front soundstage. Also, our human hearing is not so good behind us, making it a good location to hide a timber mismatch, since it won't be noticed as much.)


Have you tried this?! I'm curious about this subject as well!

Would there be that much of a difference in sound going from a pair of matching back surrounds speakers vs a different brand of back surround speakers to match all the other speakers in 5.1 set-up?

For example using a pair of yamaha speakers to sub for a back surround array to match an existing bose 5.1 setup making it 7.1. would the difference in timbre matching be evident in back channels?

(The least important speakers (relatively) are the ones behind you, since they will interact least with the front soundstage. Also, our human hearing is not so good behind us, making it a good location to hide a timber mismatch, since it won't be noticed as much.)


Have you tried this?! I'm curious about this subject as well!

Would there be that much of a difference in sound going from a pair of matching back surrounds speakers vs a different brand of back surround speakers to match all the other speakers in 5.1 set-up?

For example using a pair of yamaha speakers to sub for a back surround array to match an existing bose 5.1 setup making it 7.1. would the difference in timbre matching be evident in back channels?

i have a focal 1027be/1007be/cc1000be 5.1 setup (intentionally voice matched for multichannel sacd/dvd-a) and a pair of back focal 806v--works just fine--ideall all would be matched but the back 2 are definitely the least important and should be fine for when you are matrixing 7.1 or with 7.1 native material. best option--7 matched channels>5 matched and 2 mismatched>5.1 IMHO

Would there be that much of a difference in sound going from a pair of matching back surrounds speakers vs a different brand of back surround speakers to match all the other speakers in 5.1 set-up?

For example using a pair of yamaha speakers to sub for a back surround array to match an existing bose 5.1 setup making it 7.1. would the difference in timbre matching be evident in back channels?Doubtful you'd even really notice the timbre mismatch.

Most people can not even hear the timbre mismatch, especially in ANY surrounds.

If you are not a "critical" listener or someone that is going to try and find faults you will not care either.

This is not saying its the right thing to do its just saying the differences sometimes are so minimal that the arguements over them on here go far beyond any meaningful difference.

Doubtful you'd even really notice the timbre mismatch.

Okay, I give up :D

I have to stop following you!!!

My Paradigms are still coming to India next month, so in the mean time I stuck two of my old satellites (from Logitech multimedia system Z680s) just to see how 7.1 works. Surprisingly good! Really increases immersion and room-fullness. No going back. This is the first time I've had 'side surrounds' and it's great. I might actually think about leaving the Logitechs in the rear surround (since they're a lot easier to mount) and running the Paradigms into my living room (opposite side of 'front' theater wall) as B fronts for parties. No sub in there, but they have more range anyway.

Anyway, for this thread's sake, I'll officially conclude (as you've all suggested) that mis-matched 7.1 is certainly better than matched 5.1, especially for a larger (in my case, longer) room where 7.1 makes good sense.

I might actually think about leaving the Logitechs in the rear surround (since they're a lot easier to mount) and running the Paradigms into my living room (opposite side of 'front' theater wall) as B fronts for parties. No sub in there, but they have more range anyway.I think that's a much better use of the Paradigms. The Logitechs will work fine for surround-back use. Down the road, you may want to replace them with something that more closely matches your Velodynes (but I don't think that's critical).

Sanjay

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the obvious: If you can get ahold of a matching Paradigm CC, having a Paradigm front stage with 4 of the velo sats as surrounds would be my choice. If not, then it seems like you're making the best of what you have. I realize geography complicates this, but if you have stateside friends or family that would be willing to keep an eye out for the right Paradigm center on Audiogon/eBay/Craigslist for you the relatively small cash outlay for an older monitor series Paradigm CC would enable you to have a much better, and timber matched, front three. Just my 2c...