I'll start out by answering the recommended questions stickied at the top.

1) Budget - $1200
2) Size limit - not concerned about the size
3) Room dimension - 16' w x 24 ' long. Sloped side walls after approx the 4' level (Loft above a garage)
4) Primary use - Music
5) Listening habits - Loud music, Rock n' roll, alternative
6) Appearance - Don't want ugly subwoofer but doesn't necessarily have to be a work of art either
7) Time frame - Not a huge rush

OK, that should answer most of the questions.

I am tentatively going to be ordering 5 of the Paradigm Studio 40's to use in a 5.1 multichannel music setup & for 2 channel listening. Looking for something that would match up well with the paradigms. Could get 2 SVS pb10-NSD's for close to the same price as a Paradigm Seismic 10.

Pros/cons would be appreciated. And if you think the Paradigms would be a bad idea altogether feel free to give a better solution. Looking at approx $4000 budget altogether.

Thanks

Just to let you know Paradigm is discontinuing the studio 40s with the new version 5 coming. So you should be able to get good prices on the version 4s or wait for version 5. No big bookshelf 2.5 way with the version 5. For a sub the paradigm dsp-3200 at 699.00 puts out a lot for rock music, or ultracube at 899 is better sounding and smaller.

An Epik Castle would be a very good choice for your budget. It will KILL the DSP-3200 and Ultracube 10.

If you want to keep with paradigm than i would look at the Paradigm DSP 3400. My dad had the DSP 3200 and returned it for the 3400. The 3400 can go below 20 Hz and looks great compared to the Epik castle. Here are few pictures of my old mans setup with the DSP 3200(returned) and the DSP 3400. He has the studio 60's V3... Good luck.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn222/icegberg70/IMG_0279.jpg
^^^ DSP 3400
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn222/icegberg70/IMG_0214.jpg
^^^ DSP 3200

I'd like to hear more about how those Paradigm DSP's sound. They look interesting.

I'd like to hear more about how those Paradigm DSP's sound. They look interesting.

I know lot of people here rave about the SVS,outlaw,epik ect.. But these DSP subs from paradigm should get some notice.

I got the Paradigm servo 15 v2 my self at my house and my old man's DSP 3400 is almost every bit loud and tight with bass as my sub.

I went to my dad's house last week to watch Cloverfield on Blu Ray and was really surprised how powerful, deep, tight bass this sub had.Also the DSP-3400 subwoofer proved to be a very good sonic match for the Paradigm Studio 60's V3.

There was one part of cloverfield where the army was launching missles from the street at the creature and the DSP-3400 showed no strain, fatigue, or drop-off at the lowest frequencies, producing LFE effects at full impact. The whole house was shaking till my mom told him to turn it down:D (My old man is 67)

So if anyone is looking for a good budget Sub, they should audition the DSP from paradigm.

cheers,

Primary use is music?

Rythmik 15" sealed
Hsu ULS-15

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a 10" subwoofer better suited for music than a 12" or 15"? Wouldn't 2 x SVS PB10-NSD's be superior to the ultracube? Especially looking at the pricepoint. $1152 delivered to me in BC.

What is you reasoning for wanting the 40's as opposed to the 20's?

I would buy the 20's and buy a bigger sub. The Servo 15 v.2 is a great one.

On the other hand, 20's and a couple DSP-3400's would be great.

$4300 for (5) 20's and (2) 3400's. or $3400 with only one 3400.

Do you already have stands?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a 10" subwoofer better suited for music than a 12" or 15"? Wouldn't 2 x SVS PB10-NSD's be superior to the ultracube? Especially looking at the pricepoint. $1152 delivered to me in BC.
That is a myth. It started because smaller subs could not play as deep, and this gave the illusion of sounding tighter.

The main benefit of two or more subs is being able to even out the frequency response throughout the room.

I am going with the Studio 40's over the 20's due to the fact that I will be using them for High resolution surround sound music as well as 2 channel music, and I want to be close to a full range speaker. I read quite a few things about the Studios & most people seemed to feel that the 40's were the gem of them all for sound.

Also I do not have stands yet. I am not even positive that that is the setup I am going with.

Anybody know of some good stands that fit the Studio 40's. The ones from Paradigm are a little pricey.

For stands Paradigm makes a s-22 that is only $138.00 for the pair that go with the 40s. Their top stand the j-23 is nice as the 40s screw to the plate and can be filled. They are $400 for both so a little pricey for 40s. Im using the with Sig s-4

GreenMachine.....

You seem to be posting all over the place for info on the Studio 40's, 100's and in here to find subs that match...

I appreciate the fact that you are trying to do your homework on your future system, but I was wondering if you have auditioned both the 100's next to the 40's, they sound a bit different and you should test them side by side to determine which you prefer... As explained a few times, the 100's have a dedicated midrange, and might be worth the extra money for the accuracy, clarity, and imaging that provides...

If I may make a suggestion, you can easily get used studio 100's off Audiogon for the price of new 40's and start piecing together a system based off that....I have bought a number of items off Audiogon which has allowed me to spread my wealth a bit farther toward other items for your HT. I am very glad I saved the money shopping there...

I personally love a good sealed sub, like I suggested in your other thread, but to get top a quality musical ported sub you might want to up the ante, for a very well designed sub... an SVS Ultra 13 comes to mind, or possibly a couple of new SVS Plus series.... They have very well designed drivers that are extremely accurate in a ported sub design. I calculate your room at roughly 3400 ft cu. and dual subs will work great if you can fit them...

cschang here suggested the Rythmik 15" sealed or the HSU ULS-15 which is also sealed, which has a bit more flexibility with wireless connectivity but a steeper price. Dual Rythmik's would be downright spectacular, they will require some assembly, but mostly that which a child could handle and are of top notch sound quality.

DIY is a great way to get the best in quality with a little effort on your part, but the performance and savings are where the idea shines...

Dual Rythmik's would be downright spectacular, they will require some assembly, but mostly that which a child could handle and are of top notch sound quality.

If you buy the driver, amp, and enclosure from Rythmik, they will assemble and test it at no charge.

For ported, I would take the Hsu VTF-3.3 over PB13U if not pushed to the limits. Within their operating envelopes, say 85%, I think the 3.3 sounds better. That said, the Rythmik is one of the best, if not the best I have heard.

Rythmik 15" sealed

Would that be the DS1500 Direct Servo subwoofer? I am in the market for subs, and if I can save money by going DIY, I'll do it.

Yes Nuance, that is correct.... Linky (http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS15.html)

DS1500 sealed, with 12-24db A370XLR servo amplifier $499That sub gets great reviews for a very good price... Will deliver a great deal lower bass then the SVS SB12+ I brought over to your house for a bit less money as well...

*****EDIT***** I was just informed that the Kit does not include the enclosure... so thats another $269.00... :( my bad

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/images/15_walnut_front_590x472.jpg

Hmm,.. So for just under $800 is it still a great value?

I am enjoying the SV12+, by the way. It's not mind blowing or anything, but it fills in the bottom end, something I've been missing for a while. I like it, but I have to run it around 5dB hot in order to actually hear and feel the benefits from it. I haven't had much time to play with in-room positioning and response, though.

Oh, and Audyssey sucks. It ruins the FR of my speakers but does a decent job with the in-room bass response of the subwoofer. Sorry, but I'd rather not have my FR ruined (rolls off the high's - sound terrible). :mad:

When I eventually chose which sub to get and save up the funds, I'll have to use something else to EQ the bass, such as that Velodyne.

Thanks for your input guys, took a look at the Rythmik website & those subs do look pretty good. By the way Nuance are you using a sub with your Songtowers? Now that you've had them for a while do you still find them to be "Audio Nirvana" Did their sound change after some break-in? . I am looking into possibly going with a set of those as well. Heard nothing but good things about them. Cheaper than the Studio 100's, & if I'm going to add a sub anyways I don't think it matters that the Studios have 3 woofers vs the Songtowers haveing just the 1.

Hmm,.. So for just under $800 is it still a great value?
IMO, if you put a high importance on sound quality, it is one of the best deals in subs right now.

I'll start out by answering the recommended questions stickied at the top.

1) Budget - $1200
2) Size limit - not concerned about the size
3) Room dimension - 16' w x 24 ' long. Sloped side walls after approx the 4' level (Loft above a garage)
4) Primary use - Music
5) Listening habits - Loud music, Rock n' roll, alternative
6) Appearance - Don't want ugly subwoofer but doesn't necessarily have to be a work of art either
7) Time frame - Not a huge rush

OK, that should answer most of the questions.

I am tentatively going to be ordering 5 of the Paradigm Studio 40's to use in a 5.1 multichannel music setup & for 2 channel listening. Looking for something that would match up well with the paradigms. Could get 2 SVS pb10-NSD's for close to the same price as a Paradigm Seismic 10.

Pros/cons would be appreciated. And if you think the Paradigms would be a bad idea altogether feel free to give a better solution. Looking at approx $4000 budget altogether.

ThanksThe Definitive Technologies SuperCube I

Well at your budget, and size not being an issue, you could go DIY with an 18" driver in a sealed enclosure with amp and have some of the cleanest most effortless bass ever
depending on driver. Which would blow away the competition...

Thanks for your input guys, took a look at the Rythmik website & those subs do look pretty good. By the way Nuance are you using a sub with your Songtowers? Now that you've had them for a while do you still find them to be "Audio Nirvana" Did their sound change after some break-in? . I am looking into possibly going with a set of those as well. Heard nothing but good things about them. Cheaper than the Studio 100's, & if I'm going to add a sub anyways I don't think it matters that the Studios have 3 woofers vs the Songtowers haveing just the 1.
Warpdrv let me borrow an SVS PB12+, so I finally got to experience the ST's with one. They fill out the bottom nicely, but the ST's put out a good amount of bass so I have to run the sub 5dB hot in order to realize it's there. It is a great little sub, so that says a lot about the bass output capabilities of the ST's. Of course, anything below the low 30's and the sub makes its presence. Good stuff.

The magic has not left the SongTower's. The more I listen, the more I know I made the right choice. They do indeed bring me "audio nirvana." I am very happy. :)

If you do decide to go with the ST"s, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by their all around capabilities, especially the midrange and bass.

IMO, if you put a high importance on sound quality, it is one of the best deals in subs right now.

Oh, you know me; I don't settle for average. :)

I may just have to look into the Rythmik. Thanks guys.

They fill out the bottom nicely, but the ST's put out a good amount of bass so I have to run the sub 5dB hot in order to realize it's there.
That doesn't sound right....you are not suppose to know the sub is there unless called for.

If you buy the driver, amp, and enclosure from Rythmik, they will assemble and test it at no charge.

So basically they finished subs like other companies?

So basically they finished subs like other companies?
Yes.

That doesn't sound right....you are not suppose to know the sub is there unless called for.
I know, but sometimes I like to run it hot just to know it's there. There are certain days that I am just a bass whore and like it to blow my roof off. :) But most days I just want a very musical subwoofer.

I am pretty sure I saw Jim Salk recommend running the Song Tower's full range even if using a subwoofer. That's what I am currently doing, but I'll play with crossover point tomorrow (hopefully) to find out which I like better.

A 15 or 18" sure would be cool to play with, though. :)

I know, but sometimes I like to run it hot just to know it's there. There are certain days that I am just a bass whore and like it to blow my roof off. :) But most days I just want a very musical subwoofer.

I am pretty sure I saw Jim Salk recommend running the Song Tower's full range even if using a subwoofer. That's what I am currently doing, but I'll play with crossover point tomorrow (hopefully) to find out which I like better.

A 15 or 18" sure would be cool to play with, though. :)

I would cross them at 40hz and see if the sound improves.

I know, but sometimes I like to run it hot just to know it's there. There are certain days that I am just a bass whore and like it to blow my roof off. :) But most days I just want a very musical subwoofer.

I am pretty sure I saw Jim Salk recommend running the Song Tower's full range even if using a subwoofer. That's what I am currently doing, but I'll play with crossover point tomorrow (hopefully) to find out which I like better.

A 15 or 18" sure would be cool to play with, though. :)

I honestly can't say I have ever come across a speaker that didn't require a good solid performing sub by its side... I like my bass powerful and tactile, and I tend to run it from a few db's hot to 10db's hot at times... what ever I'm in the mood for... I guess i'm a sucker for good bass... :)

I would cross them at 40hz and see if the sound improves.

I wouldn't cross at 40.... The Sontowers only go down to 40 at their limits... 42Hz to 20,000Hz +/- 3db. That will leave a big gap in the FR right in the punch area...
I wouldn't cross any lower then 60hz for proper blending... if not 80, but you have to let your room decide... with measurements...

I've had a few comments that I'm all over the place on these forums with what I am looking for and such. All I can say is that I am all over the place. I want to get the best sound for the best price I can. Plain & simple. I would like to thank those of you who took the time to help me with own mini speaker quest rather than point out how I'm going about it the wrong way.

In that respect I've been reading a lot of stuff about the Songtowers that I just can't believe that my ears would be so different from so many people that are very much into music as I am. I have been reading forums hereand Audiocircle where nobody has anything bad to say about the Salks especially for their price range.

I've been in contact with Jim Salk & talked about the type of music I listen to as well as what I am looking for & availability seems to be not too bad right now. Probably take about 2 months to get them. My garage/loft probably won't be ready prior to that anyways.

One of my main concerns about buying speakers is whether or not I could recoup my money if I didn't end up liking what I bought. There isn't a listening room anywhere that would mimic the type of room that these will end up in, as well ass the difficulty to get somewhere to test out a bunch of speakers. Edmonton would be the closest spot for me & that would require me taking days off to do that. Once I lose the money for taking days off I am losing the majority of the savings I am looking for in the first place.I do not think there is any chance that I would not be impressed & happy with the ST's but if I was unhappy with them I think you would have to admit that there are lots of people that would be interested in snatching them up.

I think that I would be able to swing the DS15 from Rythmik + the Songtowers & still keep under my budget enough to possibly throw in some half decent biwire speaker cables.

I know this has been a long post & thanks again for all your help. I especially found Funkmonkey & Nuances speaker quest posts to be interesting & informative.

PS: Any thoughts on the sonic differences between the ST RT's VS the ST QWT's. For the type of music I listen to would there be a benefit vs cost increase for somebody that doesn't listen to classical music. Rock/Alternative/Even some country for the wife occasionally?

PSS: Just when you thought I was done with all the questions:D

I've had a few comments that I'm all over the place on these forums with what I am looking for and such. All I can say is that I am all over the place. I want to get the best sound for the best price I can. Plain & simple. I would like to thank those of you who took the time to help me with own mini speaker quest rather than point out how I'm going about it the wrong way.

In that respect I've been reading a lot of stuff about the Songtowers that I just can't believe that my ears would be so different from so many people that are very much into music as I am. I have been reading forums hereand Audiocircle where nobody has anything bad to say about the Salks especially for their price range.

I've been in contact with Jim Salk & talked about the type of music I listen to as well as what I am looking for & availability seems to be not too bad right now. Probably take about 2 months to get them. My garage/loft probably won't be ready prior to that anyways.

One of my main concerns about buying speakers is whether or not I could recoup my money if I didn't end up liking what I bought. There isn't a listening room anywhere that would mimic the type of room that these will end up in, as well ass the difficulty to get somewhere to test out a bunch of speakers. Edmonton would be the closest spot for me & that would require me taking days off to do that. Once I lose the money for taking days off I am losing the majority of the savings I am looking for in the first place.I do not think there is any chance that I would not be impressed & happy with the ST's but if I was unhappy with them I think you would have to admit that there are lots of people that would be interested in snatching them up.

I think that I would be able to swing the DS15 from Rythmik + the Songtowers & still keep under my budget enough to possibly throw in some half decent biwire speaker cables.

I know this has been a long post & thanks again for all your help. I especially found Funkmonkey & Nuances speaker quest posts to be interesting & informative.

PS: Any thoughts on the sonic differences between the ST RT's VS the ST QWT's. For the type of music I listen to would there be a benefit vs cost increase for somebody that doesn't listen to classical music. Rock/Alternative/Even some country for the wife occasionally?

PSS: Just when you thought I was done with all the questions:D

You don't need to "biwire" or as some people call it BUYWIRE.... Its a waste of money.... so you can save your money there... Just go over to bluejeans cable or monoprice for good deals on great wire, there is no mystery hidden in cabling, just get something reasonable, heck you could use HomeDepot lamp chord, and it would be no different. seriously...

So you definitely don't think theres any benefit to "buywiring speakers":confused:

Anybody else with suggestions comments about my last post?

Bump

There is most likely no difference in bi-wiring (which I'm doing), but bi-AMPING is another story...it gives seperate power to the tweets and the woofers, giving you a "slam dunk" type of sound. I know you are looking so hard for the "right" speakers right now...go with your gut. I would go for the Studio 40's and call it good. But of course, I'm an owner of studio 60's v.1;)

There is most likely no difference in bi-wiring (which I'm doing), but bi-AMPING is another story...

+1. Bi-wiring is a waste of time IMO.

Since size is not an issue, and you're not in a big rush, why not give Tweak City a call and find out when craigsub is going to release the Sasquatch.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238

Since size is not an issue, and you're not in a big rush, why not give Tweak City a call and find out when craigsub is going to release the Sasquatch.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238

The OP set a limit of $1,200 on his sub.

If he wanted a very similar design to the Sasquatch, in a smaller version, he could opt for the AV123 MFW-15 for ~$719 plus shipping.

I feel you should spend the most money you can on yur sub as the sub makes the most difference, especially IIRC, this will be part of a new HT system at some point, with 2.1 channel listening as well. I spent the bucks on the SVS PB13-Ultra and do not regret it, it blends seemlessly with the M80s and has some very nice adjustments for room size etc. built into the amp. The Canadian distibutor is Sonicboomaudio. The SB12 - plus is getting great reviews and is a sealed design and smaller/less expensive, than the PB13.

If you want to get a good idea of how different the ST RT's are from the QWT's, check out my review.

In a nutshell, the difference is not HUGE, but it is discernible if you have a good attention span for detail. In my opinion the ribbon gives a more realistic sound to the music. The cymbals and high hats have the correct amount of sibilance, the horns sound accurate and the rest of the highs are just detailed and smooth without fatigue. I certainly think they were worth the difference, but if you are not an "it's in the details" kind of guy, the QWT's would suit you just fine; they are an amazing speaker.

I hope that helps.

As for the subs, you've received many great recommendations. HSU, SVS, AV123, Epik, Elemental Designs, Rythmik, etc. They all manufacturer a great product for a reasonable price.

Good luck.

Thanks guys. Appreciate the help!

Whatever you end up going with, do keep us posted. Enjoy!

Thanks for your input guys, took a look at the Rythmik website & those subs do look pretty good. ...
Does anyone have experience with these for classical music and/or vocals? Something like Requiem, Norah Jones, Sarah Mc Lachlan, Dido ...

Does anyone have experience with these for classical music and/or vocals? Something like Requiem, Norah Jones, Sarah Mc Lachlan, Dido ...
Kex, I am not a classical music expert, but I do have some and currently have a Rythmik in my system. I think the sub has excellent sound quality that can compete with subs that are much more expensive.

I am in Manhattan Beach, you are welcome to come down for a listen.

... I am in Manhattan Beach, you are welcome to come down for a listen.
Awesome, cschang! I would love to, although I have moved from Santa Monica to La Crescenta, so it's a lot further away. What gear do you have so that I can figure out how comparable it might be to mine:

- Source component for audio,
- AVR and/or amplifier,
- Speakers.

Thanks, Kex.

Awesome, cschang! I would love to, although I have moved from Santa Monica to La Crescenta, so it's a lot further away. What gear do you have so that I can figure out how comparable it might be to mine:

- Source component for audio,
- AVR and/or amplifier,
- Speakers.

Thanks, Kex.
For sources, I use Sonos for FLAC files, and an Oppo 970 for CD, DVD-A, SACD.
Sherwood/Newcastle P-965 pre/pro, ICEpower 1000asp based amp.
Ascend Acoustic Sierra-1 speakers.

For sources, I use Sonos for FLAC files, and an Oppo 970 for CD, DVD-A, SACD.
Sherwood/Newcastle P-965 pre/pro, ICEpower 1000asp based amp.
Ascend Acoustic Sierra-1 speakers.
That's actually close enough to be useful IMO, and those speakers look (and seem to be) fabulous, but I'll tell you what: I should just come down, pick up your gear, and ... drive away with it. I'll leave you my gear in exchange!

I'll send you a PM later so we can hook up. Thanks again. Awesome offer! I really believe helping out other members is the only way to go to make tough decisions like this one (musical sub).

:DOK so I finally did make up my mind.:confused:
Ordered the Studio 100's in cherry + 1 x Studio 40 to use as a center. I'll use my Titans as surrounds as my main objective is to have a good sounding 2 channel system.

One day Fedex will admit they lost my XPA-2 and Emotiva will ship me another one:mad:

Now I just need to figure out which sub to go with for sure & I'm done my pain in the a$$ search.;)

It's the shipping to get stuff up here that's making the decision hard. eg) SVS has a dealer in Canada the rest have to come from the states.(extra duties & stuff)

EDIT: I hope I don't regret not passing up the Salk's, but I can go a fair bit higher on my subwoofer budget going with the Paradigms.

Thanks to everybody that helped me out!

Kex, I am not a classical music expert, but I do have some and currently have a Rythmik in my system. I think the sub has excellent sound quality that can compete with subs that are much more expensive.

I am in Manhattan Beach, you are welcome to come down for a listen.

Did you order the parts and assemble it yourself, or did they put it together for you? If you did it yourself, was it easy to put together? What kind of tools and material are needed? Thanks.

Did you order the parts and assemble it yourself, or did they put it together for you? If you did it yourself, was it easy to put together? What kind of tools and material are needed? Thanks.
Rythmik put it together for me.

But if you were to do it yourself, I think all it would take is a good phillips screwdriver.

Which Rythmik sub did you go with? What do you think of it? I am stuck between the SVS PB13U (which is a little higher than my budget) The DS15 sealed rythmik Or an ED sub.

The Rythmik will have no where near the output that the Ultra13 will... They are in completely different leagues based on amp power for that sealed sub. I would go with an MFW15 or Epik sub before I would invest any money in eD with some of the issues and customer support things I have read...

Flame suit on...

Rythmik will assemble it for you. $1200 budget either get the PB13 U so save. The new Pb12 plus which is suppose to sound similar for $1k. Or Get an Epik Castle. its a huge black box but it looks good imo.Well I have a Valor so I can get an idea of the finish. Suppose(Castle) to sound good with music dunno myself never hear one. But my Valor kicks my 2 Pb10 but playing music. And it keeps up with 2 Pb10 in Ht. Not bad for a sealed sub.http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06121.jpg

I have the Rythmik DS15 sealed in the system right now. For anyone looking for sound quality in a sub, they need to hear a Rythmik.

The Rythmik definitely does not have the output of the PB13...no way. But within its limits, to me, the Rythmik sounds better. The PB13 is the best sounding SVS I have heard, but for the price, output withstanding, there are subs with better sound quality.

You need to understand how loud you listen to music/movies, and what kind of output you need from your sub/speakers. Louder at the limit does not equate to better within the limit.

So if it was pretty much strictly for music, which sub would you recommend? Chances are that down the road it could end up being used in my theater instead, but for right now it is for a music setup that I am looking at.

It would be matched with Paradigm Studio 100's powered by an Emotiva XPA-2 in a +/- 3000 cu/f room.

One DS1500 is sufficient for me...music AND HT.....my room is about 2300 cu/ft.

I don't know how loud you like your music or movies, but I am willing to bet that a single DS1500 would be fine.

I have the Rythmik DS15 sealed in the system right now. For anyone looking for sound quality in a sub, they need to hear a Rythmik.

The Rythmik definitely does not have the output of the PB13...no way. But within its limits, to me, the Rythmik sounds better. The PB13 is the best sounding SVS I have heard, but for the price, output withstanding, there are subs with better sound quality.

You need to understand how loud you listen to music/movies, and what kind of output you need from your sub/speakers. Louder at the limit does not equate to better within the limit.

You've listen to the Svs Pb13 and the Rhythmik side x side and are not going off of memory?

You've listen to the Svs Pb13 and the Rhythmik side x side and are not going off of memory?
Not side by side...different rooms and setups, but with music I am familiar with. In this instance, I am confident in the difference between the two....same thing if it was my Hsu VTF-3.3 instead of the PB13.

If it was the F112/113 or ULS-15....I wouldn't be confident.

The PB13 is a great sounding unit, especially if you need the output, but if you do not need that output, there are better sounding alternatives out there IMO.

^I'm sure the Rythmik sounds good you gave up your Hsu3.3 for it. ^I had interest in the Rythmik but already ordered my Valor before I saw the site again. I'm curious what other subs sound better than the Svs Pb13 close to the price range for music? And what is your preferred DB listening at? Continuous listening in my room anything over 90db is to loud probably 80-85 is really what I prefer. I know because I was just testing my Valor. I mainly listen to HT and gaming but now that I have a Valor and have been just listening to that for music I can see the difference. Not like when just having my Pb10. I compare and hear it. It's hard to realize the difference unless you have listen to more than one sub before. But what I think the Pb13 offers is a good HT sub that play music well. And I can say my Valor is a good" musical" sub that does well with ht. See now I need to sell all my subs and start over :)

DIY people have been impressed with servo-controlled Rythmik subs for ages. If I ever need to upgrade my sub, I would seriously consider one of their smaller subs.

The Rythmik is not mine. I was asked by Brian Ding for an honest evaluation. So I still have my 3.3.

My listening level is much like yours. For music, the Rythmik DS1500 or the Hsu ULS-15. The ULS-15 being more expensive of the two, but more output down low, while giving up a tad in SQ. Both do fine for HT in my room...but the ULS-15 just has that extra down low. Tough decision for me since the system is on more for music than HT. Also, Hsu has nicer finishes. Rythmik is a steal at its current price when purchased built....I think spyboy post that Rythmik was going to raise the price on that.

I will either buy and keep the Rythmik, or buy a ULS-15 with the maple finish. I am just not sure yet. Having this sound quality is just hard to give up.

Shouldn't be hard you already answer for yourself Tough decision for me since the system is on more for music than HT me I'm HT/gamer I would have a Castle or Conquest if I had the room :(
If I were the op I would get duel Mfw 15 for there looks ,headroom, and good ratings for music and HT. That would max his budget and give him the most head room. If looks didn't matter I would get a Epik Castle poor guy gonna be a hard choice.

Yeah..but I still watch movies. Hsu is local to me, and been around longer than any ID speaker company(maybe ACI has been around longer), so if I ever have problems, it is easier to get it addressed.

And that 16hz organ note is impressive on both units....just more so on the Hsu.

As for headroom, while having it is great, you need to understand how much you need.

DIY people have been impressed with servo-controlled Rythmik subs for ages. If I ever need to upgrade my sub, I would seriously consider one of their smaller subs.
Right, and I always wanted to try one....especially when those that I trust built their own, and said it sounded great.

Now that Brian is offering built subs, he is going to reach more potential customers.

See you answered you question again get the HSu :). Local makes a difference and it does look a lot better. Imo if sq is similar you will notice HT performance over music listening. Especially when most ppl don't even use subs with there Sierras. As for head room if my couch isn't moving I want more.

See you answered you question again get the HSu :). Local makes a difference and it does look a lot better. Imo if sq is similar you will notice HT performance over music listening. Especially when most ppl don't even use subs with there Sierras. As for head room if my couch isn't moving I want more.
Sierras are great, but they do benefit when teamed with a sub with great SQ for the low stuff.

You have a good arguement for the Hsu.

...but the ULS-15 just has that extra down low who said that? Sorry to the op for kinda going off topic in his post but it may help him decide on what he wants?

who said that? Sorry to the op for kinda going off topic in his post but it may help him decide on what he wants?
I said that. Both the ULS and Rythmik play that 16hz nicely, the ULS just seems to do it easier.

This is great! Thanks for all your arguments and suggestions. I guess I could probably get two of the Rythmiks or two of the MFW15's for less than the SVS Ultra. Would that definitely give me better sound for music & slam.:confused: I will definitely be glad when this decision is done & I can crank some tunes & enjoy the sound.

Between our renovations that are going at a snails pace & endless reading up on the internet to try to make sure that I don't have another case of UPGRADEITIS for a long time, I just have to make up my mind on this last purchase.

I have really grown to love the nature of a sealed sub... If it were not for me getting a JL F112, I probably wouldn't have such an interest in them. With all the talk of the power and SQ of the JL's I really felt that It was worth trying one for my own to see what the fuss was all about. Now that is quality bass, (but expensive) but I only bring that to the plate to emphasize what a good sealed sub can provide. I have been waiting to hear more results and some measurements from the ULS-15. I have always read good things about the Rythmik, but I like more headroom, which is why I have decided on DIY. I think you would do very well with Dual Rythmiks, you can have enough head room as well as achieve the balance of dual subs, but if you want or need more headroom I would suggest ULS-15's or turn to DIY, which is a bit more work, but the Power and SQ come at a much lower price with DIY.

One thing I found about the JL F112 was it seemed more transparent than the Rythmik and Hsu. Don't know why, maybe because the cabinet is extremely inert.

One thing I found about the JL F112 was it seemed more transparent than the Rythmik and Hsu. Don't know why, maybe because the cabinet is extremely inert.

That is very true Curtis... I just can't say enough good things about the F112 (& I would Imagine the F113), it is a phenomenal achievement for JL. Which is 1 reason I wanted to take a nice long look at how I was going to be building my subs to achieve that same incredibly inert cabinet. There just isn't any harmonics or resonance coming from it... Its like a concrete block, I am not sure anything could compare in that size, but its surely in its own world as far as price is concerned.

One thing I found about the JL F112 was it seemed more transparent than the Rythmik and Hsu. Don't know why, maybe because the cabinet is extremely inert.

Curtis, have you ever just tapped your knuckles on each of the boxes? You can tell which one is definitely over built.

Curtis, have you ever just tapped your knuckles on each of the boxes? You can tell which one is definitely over built.
Of course. The JL is much more inert. Like Warpdrv posted...it is like a concrete block! The bamboo cabinets on the Sierras feel the same way.

Well I for one look forward to if and when SVS does something more with the Sealed sub lineup.... New Plus, maybe a New Ultra sealed... That seems to be the one place they seem to not have a large foothold, at least not just yet... There are alot of contenders in that market...
JL, Paradigm, Rythmik, HSU, Velodyne

OK, what do you guys think about 2 of the PB12-NSD's vs 1 x PB13 ultra?

From Ilkka's measurements.... over at HT Shack http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/994-svs-pb10-isd-2nd-unit.html

PB10-isd
+ Good extension
+ Good frequency response for larger rooms
+ Relative high overall maximum output capability

- High upper bass distortion
- High deep bass group delay
- Slow deep bass decay rate
- No crossover

Ultra 13 http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8150-svs-pb13-ultra-20-hz-tune-new.html

JL F113
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8152-jl-audio-fathom-f113-new.html
I listed this as he talks about the Ultra13 a bit in comparison.

IMO, I would rather have a Ultra13 over the 2 NSD's for output, SQ, low distortion over balance - but thats me.... I'm sure there are lots of people that are thrilled with the NSD. I have Dual Plus/2's and after having them for quite some time, I feel they have a bit more note overhang/distortion then I care for. But they certainly make their presence known in my house... Those things shake stuff on my screen porch out back of my house... :)

I have grown to appreciate with what I have already spent on subs, I will no longer in the future feel the effects of upgradeitus

As for headroom, while having it is great, you need to understand how much you need.

But you can never have too much. Distortion increases rapidly with output, especially at lower frequencies. Even if you don't need the extra output, if you double-up on the subs, you can can significantly lower your distortion at the same given output level. It also gives you a couple of extra advantages: you can put them in the same box in a push-pull arrangement to reduce distortion even ruther and give you a 6db output boost, or you can put them in two different enclosures in different spots in the room to even out room response (but you may end up with close to a 3db increase rather than 6).

The big advantage of the Rythmiks is the quality for the cost... if you don't mind building the boxes yourself, you can buy two Rythmik 15s, and still have several hundred left over for box materials, compared to a single ULS. I'm in the process of upgrading my dual Rythmik to a quad. :D

Thanks for the links Warp, but it was the PB12-NSD I was looking for to compare to the PB13 Ultra.

But you can never have too much.
Agreed, but for any application, you need to understand what is practical, and the gains you can actually hear.

Like I mentioned before, you can have a sub that has headroom out the kazoo, but it doesn't mean it is going to sound the best at "normal" listening levels.

The pre-made Rythmik subs, IMO, are a steal for what they offer...which I guess is why the prices are going up.

Would love to hear a dual Rythmik setup such as yours.

Whoops.... sorry, I misread and grabbed the wrong test...

Here is the PB12-NSD http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=24671&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

But everything still remains the same... The Ultra13 is Top Tier conventional overhung motor... and tests have shown coupled in properly designed enclosures and amp, they provide us with the best results for High SPL and Low Distortion.


I still stand by my thoughts, I personally will stretch my budget to get a better quality driver, save up and buy a second down the line, then be remorseful about cutting corners only to be spending again down the line for an upgrade, thats all...

Here is the link for all AVtalk sub tests http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=50&rid=0&SQ=0

And for HTShack http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/

Agreed, but for any application, you need to understand what is practical, and the gains you can actually hear.

Like I mentioned before, you can have a sub that has headroom out the kazoo, but it doesn't mean it is going to sound the best at "normal" listening levels.

Yes, I certainly understand practical limits, having a very small room, real estate for a sub is a very real factor for me too. I'm just throwing out the idea of the other benefits (beyond output) of adding more. Using Ilkka's test of the 12" as an example:

http://personal.inet.fi/private/zipman/shootout4/diy%20rythmik%20audio%20direct%20servo%2012%20sealed%2056l%2 0thd.png

To put out 95db @ 20hz results in 22% THD, but two colocated subs would essentially be operating at an excursion equivalent to 89db to produce the same output, resulting in less than 10% THD. These aren't real world numbers, because he tests outdoors... indoors there will likely be a fair amount of room gain to give you more output at a fixed distortion level (or less distortion at a fixed output level).

But anyway, the point was simply that while a single Rythmik may perform similarly to a single ULS, comparing them at similar costs (two Rythmiks to one ULS), might make it easier to choose a winner. :)

But anyway, the point was simply that while a single Rythmik may perform similarly to a single ULS, comparing them at similar costs (two Rythmiks to one ULS), might make it easier to choose a winner. :)
Absolutely agree.

Anybody think one of the Rythmik DS1500 sealed subs would be a better sub for music mainly han 1 of the SVS PB12-NSD's

Anybody think one of the Rythmik DS1500 sealed subs would be a better sub for music mainly han 1 of the SVS PB12-NSD's
IMO....absolutely.

Absolutely agree.

With apologies to GreenMachine, I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but the responses may also help with your decision:

Curtis/Darin,
Do you think 2 Rythmik DS1500's in separate enclosures would be adequate in a 14'W X 22'L X 19'H space that also opens up to other spaces (Dining Room, Kitchen, etc.)? We listen to 50% TV/HT & 50% Music. Since we are in a condo with 1 shared wall (where the sub/subs will go behind the listening position), we wouldn't be listening at extreme levels to shake the walls/floors, etc. Thanks!

Probably. My room is pretty small (13.5x14.5x10), so it's nothing like your space, but it does open up to bigger rooms as well. I've had two 12" kits for a couple years and have been perfectly happy with it. I have not felt that I needed more, just wanted the extra headroom for the reasons stated above. But that is a very large space. Personally, I'd collocate them in one box to get the extra 3db out of it, and you could also get the advantages of push-pull driver mounting. You could always add a second box later if you felt you needed more.

Thanks for everybody's help with this search. I finally decided to go with 2 of the PB12-NSD's. Mason in customer service cut me a deal on shipping multiple items & I think for music they will be more than enough paired with my Studio 100's. Really would have liked to go with the PB13 Ultra but I already went over budget & that would have been way too much:(

Subs are ordered & my speaker/sub/amp search are finally at an end.

I really appreciated everybody's input.:)

:DOK so I finally did make up my mind.:confused:
Ordered the Studio 100's in cherry + 1 x Studio 40 to use as a center. I'll use my Titans as surrounds as my main objective is to have a good sounding 2 channel system.

One day Fedex will admit they lost my XPA-2 and Emotiva will ship me another one:mad:

Now I just need to figure out which sub to go with for sure & I'm done my pain in the a$$ search.;)

It's the shipping to get stuff up here that's making the decision hard. eg) SVS has a dealer in Canada the rest have to come from the states.(extra duties & stuff)

EDIT: I hope I don't regret not passing up the Salk's, but I can go a fair bit higher on my subwoofer budget going with the Paradigms.

Thanks to everybody that helped me out!
Very cool - congrats! Enjoy! Oh, and enjoy those SVS subs. SVS makes superb stuff!


The PB13 is the best sounding SVS I have heard, but for the price, output withstanding, there are subs with better sound quality.


Care to share, buddy?

The Rythmik is not mine. I was asked by Brian Ding for an honest evaluation. So I still have my 3.3.

My listening level is much like yours. For music, the Rythmik DS1500 or the Hsu ULS-15. The ULS-15 being more expensive of the two, but more output down low, while giving up a tad in SQ. Both do fine for HT in my room...but the ULS-15 just has that extra down low. Tough decision for me since the system is on more for music than HT. Also, Hsu has nicer finishes. Rythmik is a steal at its current price when purchased built....I think spyboy post that Rythmik was going to raise the price on that.

I will either buy and keep the Rythmik, or buy a ULS-15 with the maple finish. I am just not sure yet. Having this sound quality is just hard to give up.
Thanks for the info, Curtis. How much extra was the fully assembled Rythmik?

P.S. The F112 is the best sub I've ever heard. It wouldn't survive on its own in a huge room, but in the room I heard it in - WOOOOOOW! It also has the best build quality of any subwoofer I have ever seen in person...by far!

Care to share, buddy?


Thanks for the info, Curtis. How much extra was the fully assembled Rythmik?
I already did share! :)

Right now, there is no extra charge for assembly.

P.S. The F112 is the best sub I've ever heard. It wouldn't survive on its own in a huge room, but in the room I heard it in - WOOOOOOW! It also has the best build quality of any subwoofer I have ever seen in person...by far!

Care to share where you heard this ridiculous F112....?

The price will be going up as stated on the site for the Rythmik's

There will be a price increase next week as we are working with our distributor to bring our finished products to the mass market. The agreement is such that 1) we will only offer kits on this site, and 2) the price disparity between kits and finished products should be reasonable.

Thanks for everybody's help with this search. I finally decided to go with 2 of the PB12-NSD's. Mason in customer service cut me a deal on shipping multiple items & I think for music they will be more than enough paired with my Studio 100's. Really would have liked to go with the PB13 Ultra but I already went over budget & that would have been way too much:(

Subs are ordered & my speaker/sub/amp search are finally at an end.

I really appreciated everybody's input.:)

Congrats on your purchase! I'm facing a similar dilemma on whether to choose 2 smaller subs or 1 large one.

Probably. My room is pretty small (13.5x14.5x10), so it's nothing like your space, but it does open up to bigger rooms as well. I've had two 12" kits for a couple years and have been perfectly happy with it. I have not felt that I needed more, just wanted the extra headroom for the reasons stated above. But that is a very large space. Personally, I'd collocate them in one box to get the extra 3db out of it, and you could also get the advantages of push-pull driver mounting. You could always add a second box later if you felt you needed more.

Thanks for the input Darin. I'm still mulling things over. Its a difficult decision ... 2 Rythmiks, or 2 Epik Valors, or 1 large something else?

Thanks for the input Darin. I'm still mulling things over. Its a difficult decision ... 2 Rythmiks, or 2 Epik Valors, or 1 large something else?
14'W X 22'L X 19'H yor room? Pretty large really height ceiling to suck all the base out. I would take that budget and buy 1 large something else. Unless you want sealed? My @2,000 ^3 one Valor gets pretty loud. I would think 19ft high ceiling would suck out the bass and you want a larger sub. If you are thinking 2 Rythmik that may be good dunno never heard one but that budget would get you a Castle,Tower maybe a Conquest. If you have the space. But you did mention you don't need floor shaking in a condo. But I would want it there incase? Especially for HT. JMO I'm sure either one you will be happy

I already did share! :)

Right now, there is no extra charge for assembly.

haha, yeah. I was too lazy to remove that from my post. :)
Care to share where you heard this ridiculous F112....?

The price will be going up as stated on the site for the Rythmik's
Gee...it happened to have slipped my mind. :p

It was at your house, of course. ;)

Very cool - congrats! Enjoy! Oh, and enjoy those SVS subs. SVS makes superb stuff!

Care to share, buddy?


Thanks for the info, Curtis. How much extra was the fully assembled Rythmik?

P.S. The F112 is the best sub I've ever heard. It wouldn't survive on its own in a huge room, but in the room I heard it in - WOOOOOOW! It also has the best build quality of any subwoofer I have ever seen in person...by far!

How big was the room and what would you consider a huge room?

How big was the room and what would you consider a huge room?

Hey Mike... Nuance is a neighbor of mine... about 1 mile away, he allowed me a nice listen to his new RT-Songtowers, which has left an impression on me I can't seem to remove from my brain since I left there. Just can't stop thinking about how just smooth they were. He heard the F112 with my smaller setup... 1700^3 with my Sig S4's 1000ASP modules driving them... it tends to get pretty powerful in there... :D

I might presume that when he referred to a huge room he might have had my great room in mind... 8200^3 open to all over. Even with the dual Plus/2's in there, they can't seem to provide that same tactile feel one gets from the F112 in that small room for obvious reasons.

^I see. 1700^3 while small isn't tiny was it a sealed room? Just curious my Valor while it's probably not even close to a Fathom does well in a 2000^3 room not sealed but open to other room with two opening only 3.5 wide. Never having a sealed sub I find i like them better. When they bottom out they just don't get louder = no port noise. I like that. I knew I shoulda gotten the HSU :)
What speaker do you use? I have interest in the Song tower also.

^I see. 1700^3 while small isn't tiny was it a sealed room? Just curious my Valor while it's probably not even close to a Fathom does well in a 2000^3 room not sealed but open to other room with two opening only 3.5 wide. Never having a sealed sub I find i like them better. When they bottom out they just don't get louder = no port noise. I like that. I knew I shoulda gotten the HSU :)
What speaker do you use? I have interest in the Song tower also.

I am confused. It sounds like you like the Epik, but you say you should have gotten the HSU? :confused:

The large room I was speaking of is warp's great room, which would require multiple F112's IMO. Dual F113's or quad F112's would be mind blowing! :eek:

Warpdrv uses Paradigm Sig 4's in his smaller room and Paradigm Studio 100's in his great room. The Studio's fill that large room pretty darn well IMO.

Warpdrv - come over again anytime for a lengthier audition. My wife and daughter can go play upstairs or something this time so the little one doesn't distract you too much. :D

^ I have the Epik Valor but my now liking sealed subs I think the Hsu with a bigger enclosure more watts may be better? Dunno the valor is a good sub for $600 could have 2 Valors for the Hsu price. That was just me expressing my likes for sealed subs.
Warp must have a Great big room for quad F112's:eek:

I am confused. It sounds like you like the Epik, but you say you should have gotten the HSU? :confused:

The large room I was speaking of is warp's great room, which would require multiple F112's IMO. Dual F113's or quad F112's would be mind blowing! :eek:

Warpdrv uses Paradigm Sig 4's in his smaller room and Paradigm Studio 100's in his great room. The Studio's fill that large room pretty darn well IMO.

Warpdrv - come over again anytime for a lengthier audition. My wife and daughter can go play upstairs or something this time so the little one doesn't distract you too much. :D

Yeah the F112 with the Sig 4's is a great match, and it has also swayed me toward the sealed subs... Mike my great room is really large at 8200^3, but whats worse yet is its open to lots of extra areas, so pressurizing that is a huge challenge, but I have a plan in place, but it will take me some time to get it all together.

Thanks for the invite Brandon, maybe sometime this week could work out. It would be nice to get a more extensive period with the RT Songtowers, and you are right, with your precious little daughter in the room, I find it hard to concentrate, she is just adorable. She's a busy little bee... ;)


^ I have the Epik Valor but my now liking sealed subs I think the Hsu with a bigger enclosure more watts may be better? Dunno the valor is a good sub for $600 could have 2 Valors for the Hsu price. That was just me expressing my likes for sealed subs.
Warp must have a Great big room for quad F112's:eek:

I hear ya on the sealed subs... just getting a little too much decay or note overhang with my Dual Plus/2's and I also find they just can't put out enough (*In My Room) and start to struggle a touch with the levels I have grown to appreciate with that F112 in my puny bedroom...

My plan has moved to getting a couple of sealed 18"s and using the 15" drivers, both in sealed as well.... I have a feeling that will probably tame the beast a little easier, and I won't have to have drastic power to accomplish that either, should be an interesting project for me to build these enclosures. :)

^ Give me a ring and we'll pick a day.

As for sealed subs, I am onboard. I think I will be going sealed from this point on out, unless someone makes me an offer I can't refuse on a ported sub.

how big is your small room warpdrv? :D

As for sealed subs, I am onboard. I think I will be going sealed from this point on out, unless someone makes me an offer I can't refuse on a ported sub.
I wouldn't go that far, but the three different sealed subs I have heard in my room have spoiled me......so if I ever get another ported sub, it will have to have at least comparable sound quality.

I wouldn't go that far, but the three different sealed subs I have heard in my room have spoiled me......so if I ever get another ported sub, it will have to have at least comparable sound quality.

That right there raises the bar quite high....... Lets not forget to add a high quality Passive Radiator.

I wouldn't go that far, but the three different sealed subs I have heard in my room have spoiled me......so if I ever get another ported sub, it will have to have at least comparable sound quality.
Well, in my case anyway. All of the sealed subwoofers I have heard have been better with music; more true to the source, tight and accurate. My opinion, of course.

I think the best sealed subwoofers I've heard so far are the F112 and the Vandersteen 2wq. Both are mind blowing, at least for me.

Totally understand.....I'm just saying that I won't rule out ported. I mean, I won't rule out anything. :)

Lets not forget to add a high quality Passive Radiator.Yeah! ;)

When I ordered my PB12-NSD's, I asked Mason to throw in a couple of the bungs for the ports. What are your guys's opinions on using them? Do you think they improve the sound when being used for music. I've been trying them with music, & pulling them out when watching movies. Not too sure if I can tell a difference or not. I'll have to try the same songs going back & forth to see I guess. I got the feeling that the subs wouldn't go as low plugged, but they would be tighter for music.

PS: my Emotiva amp showed up today when I was gone:( Will be waiting by the door tomorrow for when it shows up. :)
Can't wait to see how the 100's sound with the XPA-2 powering them.

PSS: Is it possible to bi-amp the 100's using my Yamaha RXV-2400 for the highs & the Emotiva for the lows? Would that make it 4 ohms now for each input on the speakers? Not sure exactly how that works & whether or not my Yamaha could run at 4 ohms?

Can't wait to see how the 100's sound with the XPA-2 powering them.

PSS: Is it possible to bi-amp the 100's using my Yamaha RXV-2400 for the highs & the Emotiva for the lows? Would that make it 4 ohms now for each input on the speakers? Not sure exactly how that works & whether or not my Yamaha could run at 4 ohms?


Don't bother..... Your XPA-2 is far more efficient then that Yamaha... Just stick with that... Its more then you need.

When I ordered my PB12-NSD's, I asked Mason to throw in a couple of the bungs for the ports. What are your guys's opinions on using them? Do you think they improve the sound when being used for music. I've been trying them with music, & pulling them out when watching movies. Not too sure if I can tell a difference or not. I'll have to try the same songs going back & forth to see I guess. I got the feeling that the subs wouldn't go as low plugged, but they would be tighter for music.The port bungs will lower the sub's extension at the expense of some output a little higher up in its FR. This is probably NOT what you would want to do for music listening. You don't need increased extension and you need the output higher up in the sub's FR for music. Your assumption about what the bungs will do is the opposite of what they really do.

YMMV.

Here's some charts with the Pb10 Isd sealed and port open. Give you an idea maybe of what the difference maybe?
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/6013-svs-pb10-isd-1st-unit.html
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/6014-svs-pb10-isd-sealed.html

Thanks, I thought I might have had that backwards. But I did think that it was better for music being sealed that ported?

By the way my amp finally showed up today after waiting 3 weeks for Fedex to admit that it was lost (stolen) & they shipped me the XPA-5 instead of the XPA-2.

Hoping they'll give me a kicka$$ deal on an XPA-2 after all this. Tried it out today, cranked Hotel California 5.1 hi-res at the same volume I've listened to it before @ 00 on my Onkyo 875, & my ears still hurt, I will definitely have to watch my volume control. But it sounded awesome, the plumbers were in the basement working on our new bathroom plumbing & they both came out to check it out. They definitely thought it sounded good as well.

Greenmachine - I am happy to hear that you like your new amp. Cool!

Got my replacement tweeter from Paradigm today & got it switched out no problem! Sounds much better. Also talked to Cathy at Emotiva today & they are giving me a great deal on the the XPA-2 shipped to me for all the hassles i've gone through. Deinitely want to hang onto the XPA-5 as well as it is a very good sounding amp. Can't really compare it to anything other than all in one solutions but it is definitely a huge step up from anything I've ever had before. It really makes those Studio 100's sing now.

Just wanted to give it up to Cathy & the rest of the guys at Emotiva for their excellent customer service that I received!