Hey guys hows everyone doing?

Well today i ordered my Definitive Tech speaker system

Got 2 ProMonitor 1000s for the front left and right

a ProCenter 2000

and 2 ProMonitor 800s for the Surrounds..


I have a 230watt Onkyo subwoofer that i got with a HTIB system about 2 years ago, its a good subwoofer i mean but everyone is telling me that to i should go ahead and invest in a good subwoofer now and be done with the whole buying spree.

Getting a bette sub is a good idea right ?

Well the maximum i want to pay is 400 at max..

you know i been checking some subwoofers around the net for about an hour or so now and i see the Klipsch - 12" 650W Powered Subwoofer sells for $399 at best buy and circuit city, its a 650watt sub and from the reviews it seems like its the best sub for the money, and it looks like it would a great investment as i will defintley NOT need to upgrade my sub if i buy that sub anytime soon you know, i have a question, is there any place online or somewhere that is selling that subwoofer for cheaper?

I live in an apartment and in the reviews on that sub i read that people say its shaking pictures on walls and what not lol, but since im in an apartment , that would be a problem but i can lower the volume of the sub itself right but even on low volume(the subs volume) it would still sound good and provide good or it wont be good if i lower the volume?

is there some other sub thats better that you guys would recommand ?

I think you will find the response from most people the same.

Bang for the buck:
1. Do it yourself
2.Internet Direct
3. Used
4. Brick and Mortar

Do not get hung up on how may watts a sub says it has. This is not an indicator of how good, low or loud it plays.

If you can sell your current sub for even $50 maybe you can add that to your budget:

I'll let others fill in all the typical options as has been started above.

Do it myself? im just in an apartment and im looking to get a subwoofer that will be great. i read about that klipsch sub 12 that i mentioned above and people's reviews say its the best sub on the martket and for 399 its a steal..

i found one someobody that is selling the SUB-12 USED for 320, should i go for that instead of geting a new one? its in the box and everything..

Sent you a PM as well, but here are some great sounding subs that are within your budget and will blow the others you're looking at out of the water: http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=2_41.

A few questions first.

What size is the room?

Do you want this sub right away, or can you wait a few weeks or so (some sub makers build them after you order.)

Do looks matter?

Is it mostly movies? Music?

Is there a physical size limit?

You can get better subs than the Klipsch. It's not a bad sub, but the Internet Direct retailers provide more bang for the buck. There's no way that Klipsch is the "best on the market." I don't care what some reviews say. Although if the one for $320 is in good condition, that's definitely one to consider.

Elemental Designs is very good (the A2-300 would be especially good at $315 shipped to your door if you can wait for it), as is HSU Research and Outlaw Audio. SVSound's lowest price sub might be just out of your budget. Even the HSU influenced Bic Acoustech H-100 would be a decent choice.

And don't worry about being in an apartment with any of these. The level can be adjusted, and the more powerful subs don't have to work as hard to provide good sounding bass.

the Klipsch sub for 320 is brand new in box but he wants cash, I wanted to pay with a credit card, the room is a medium sized living room in an apartment, I don't care about looks nor size. I guess I could wait and order the sub u mentioned for 315 shipped but is it a better sub than the Klipsch 12? Iheared the 12 at best buy, it sounded very good..

Guys but the sub will sound better than my onkyo sub even tho I'll lower the volume of the sub right? I mean I have the volume lowered on the onkyo sub and I still hear it well , I mean it's not lowered much, I can set the volume of the sub with the 1 volume control on the sub from 1-10 I have it on 7

oh and mosly movies and video games(360/ps3)

the Klipsch sub for 320 is brand new in box but he wants cash, I wanted to pay with a credit card, the room is a medium sized living room in an apartment, I don't care about looks nor size. I guess I could wait and order the sub u mentioned for 315 shipped but is it a better sub than the Klipsch 12? Iheared the 12 at best buy, it sounded very good..

Guys but the sub will sound better than my onkyo sub even tho I'll lower the volume of the sub right? I mean I have the volume lowered on the onkyo sub and I still hear it well , I mean it's not lowered much, I can set the volume of the sub with the 1 volume control on the sub from 1-10 I have it on 7

Yes it will sound better at lower volumes middle volumes and high volumes. :)

Only you can decide is something is "better" but tests and specs along with other peoples comparisons can mean something and if you go by those yes the Ed is "better". No offense but how a sub sounds in a best buy wouldn't inluence me too much. How it sounds in your room is what matters. The Klipsh isn't BAD. It will certainly be an improvemnt over what you have. But you need to understand that name brands like that have to add costs for marketing, advertising as well as markup for the retailer. On a $ for $ basis there are many things against them in terms of providing performance for the $.

What people's reviews say the Klipsh is the best sub on the market? Klipsh owners reviewing their own sub?

is it a better sub than the Klipsch 12? Iheared the 12 at best buy, it sounded very good.. Best Buy is by far the worst place to audition speakers and subs. The systems were thrown together by 16 year old kids who can barely read the instructions. No calibration. A big, open space. And a constant BOOOOMMMMM, BOOOOMMMMM coming from the car audio section.

Comparing the Klipsch to the ED. Can you ask the guys from Klipsch specific questions? If you can, you will get someone reading a script. You can communicate with the ED tech guys here on the forum. If want to talk to the owner, just give them a call.

-Robert

yes but how is the ed sub better than the Klipsch? And no I won't buy at best buy, I'll buy it brand new from my friend for 320 and I'll pick it up locally.

I heared the sub 12 at circuit city also and it was good sounding too but I don't get it, the sub 12 is not considered a high quality sub?

I want to get a sub that will be great for a few years atleast, so my 2 choices are the we and the Klipsch sub 12 right?

Oh , where's the best place to buy a good subwoofer cable online or offline for cheap? I need about 10. or 12 ft

yes but how is the ed sub better than the Klipsch? And no I won't buy at best buy, I'll buy it brand new from my friend for 320 and I'll pick it up locally.

I heared the sub 12 at circuit city also and it was good sounding too but I don't get it, the sub 12 is not considered a high quality sub?

I want to get a sub that will be great for a few years atleast, so my 2 choices are the we and the Klipsch sub 12 right?

Oh , where's the best place to buy a good subwoofer cable online or offline for cheap? I need about 10. or 12 ft

The eD sub will play lower with much less distortion. The eD sub will use better components, has better customer service, and costs less. I really don't see what's so complicated about this. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would recommend the klipsch over the eD sub.

I see, the ed looks good, so u can't really go wrong with the one that costs 315 right?

If I move to a house and have a bigger living room, that sub can still sound good?

So for 400$ max, that we will be the best? Is there a reason why I should buy the ed sub that costs 375 or theres not much difference?

Buy as much sub as you can pay...

So for 400$ max, that we will be the best? Is there a reason why I should buy the ed sub that costs 375 orvtheres not much difference?

It's hard to say what is best. There are too many factors.

Here's the bottom line.

The eD A2-300 will be better than your Onkyo. By miles. End of discussion.

It most likely will be better than the Klipsch. I haven't heard the Klipsch sub. But the eD has a lot of things going for it. It most likely will serve in your medium sized room, although it depends on what you define as medium (some length, width and height measurements in feet would help.)

The A2-300 is normally around $375, but they dropped it to $315 for a special and it's been like that for awhile (that's why it's cheaper than the other eD sub, even though its specs/size is better.) Normally eD subs give great bang for the buck, but that $315 price is stupendous for what you get. And shipping is free. And you can use your credit card. And you can talk to the guys who actually build the subs here on this site. The only downside is you will have to wait at least three weeks or so, maybe a month while they build the thing.

You do the math.


edit: BTW, you can get the Klipsch from Vanns.com for $300 shipped, but I'd still go for the eD for $315 shipped.

the Klipsch sub12 is 300 at Vanns?? I looked there but icouldnt find the sub12 there, I love Vanns their service is awesome.

I don't know the ed looks really good too but I'm trying to look into the future, and the 1 month wait is kind of a minus and it's 250 watt vs 650 watts for the same price . Considering they are both bottom firing subs And in the future I might buy a house and I want to buy a sub now that will cover me for a while.

The Klipsch is a better bangvfor the buck tho right?

Can u please link me to the sub 12 on Vanns ?

I can't seem to find it now. I swear I saw it earlier. :(

The watts rating is meaningless, IMO. The Klipsch is rated at 650 peak watts, meaning its highest potential, which you'll probably never hit in your apartment. Some manufacturers like to lure you in with the peak power rating, when the RMS rating is more realistic.

The eD's 250 watts are RMS watts, more continuous. That brings the Klipsch down to its level (the Klipsch is 300watts RMS, not enough of a difference to sway me to it.) And then there are other factors, such as the driver (eDs are very respected) and overall construction.

I would say the eD is the bigger bang for the buck, but the Klipsch isn't BAD. You'd probably be happy with either.

Here's a look at their specs side-by-side:

eD A2-300:
Model Name : A2-300 Powered Home Audio Subwoofer
Amplifier Power : 200w RMS
Subwoofer Driver Size : eD 12" Subwoofer
Cabinet Type : Vented / Downfire
Room Tuning : 20Hz FR - (18-100Hz +/-3dB)
In Room Avg SPL : 114.8dB (10-100Hz Max Output Avg)
Shipping Weight : 68lbs
Frequency Response (+/-3dB) : 18-100Hz
Cabinet Type Vented
Shipping Weight 68Lbs
Width 18.00"
Height 17.75"
Depth 21.50"
Vent Size 4"
Crossover Frequencies 40~160Hz

Klipsh sub12:
frequency response 24-120Hz +/-3dB
amplifier power FTC Rated Power: 300 watts continuous @ 1% THD, Dynamic Power: 650 watts
maximum acoustic output 117dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m
drive components 12" (30.5cm) fiber-composite cone, down-firing woofer
amplifier BASH® digital hybrid
phase Switchable 0-180 degrees
enclosure type Bass-reflex via rear-firing port
height 18” (45.7cm) H
width 15” (38.1cm) W
depth 19.9” (50.5cm) D
weight 40 lbs. (18.2kg)

I would think based on the highlighted info, the eD will out perform and be the better solution for a longer period of time.

here's a look at their specs side-by-side:

ed a2-300:
model name : A2-300 powered home audio subwoofer
amplifier power : 200w rms
subwoofer driver size : Ed 12" subwoofer
cabinet type : Vented / downfire
room tuning : 20hz fr - (18-100hz +/-3db)
in room avg spl : 114.8db (10-100hz max output avg)
shipping weight : 68lbs
frequency response (+/-3db) : 18-100hz
cabinet type vented
shipping weight 68lbs
width 18.00"
height 17.75"
depth 21.50"
vent size 4"
crossover frequencies 40~160hz

klipsh sub12:
frequency response 24-120hz +/-3db
amplifier power ftc rated power: 300 watts continuous @ 1% thd, dynamic power: 650 watts
maximum acoustic output 117db @ 30hz 1/8 space, 1m
drive components 12" (30.5cm) fiber-composite cone, down-firing woofer
amplifier bash® digital hybrid
phase switchable 0-180 degrees
enclosure type bass-reflex via rear-firing port
height 18” (45.7cm) h
width 15” (38.1cm) w
depth 19.9” (50.5cm) d
weight 40 lbs. (18.2kg)

i would think based on the highlighted info, the ed will out perform and be the better solution for a longer period of time.

+1

my vote is AV123 Onix MFW-15's!!!
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/jinxfrt/DSC00436.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/jinxfrt/DSC00437.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/jinxfrt/DSC00438.jpg

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i95/jinxfrt/DSC00443.jpg

Well the maximum i want to pay is 400 at max..


my vote is AV123 Onix MFW-15's!!!


If you could point out where the OP can get an MFW-15 to his door for under $400, that would be my recommendation too ;)

I see, I really don't know, they both look very good but I don't think I can wait a month for them to build the ed sub, I just spoke to the guy with the Klipsch on the phone and he said that he is going to come to my home and deliver the sub to me rather than me going to him, so it's like 320 shipped.. Can igo wrong with the klipsch subwoofer? He said he will let me test the sub also and that it's working fine even tho it's brand new


Guys, the cheaper velodyne subs are not better than the Klipsch or the eD subs right?


Oh and tulpa, u didn't see the sub 12 that I'm talkin about at Vanns, u saw another Klipsch sub12, the ksw12. It's weaker than the sub 12 I'm talkin about

The Klipsch sub12 is miles better than the onkyo sub right?

Also, he isn't a fan of the wood veneer. I suggested he take a look at the ELT special in his speaker thread, but the wood was a turn off.

As a big time av123 supporter, I would love to see him get an av123 woofer, but as was stated earlier he's looking at under $400. The eD offerings are his best bet in this range.

I see, I really don't know, they both look very good but I don't think I can wait a month for them to build the ed sub, I just spoke to the guy with the Klipsch on the phone and he said that he is going to come to my home and deliver the sub to me rather than me going to him, so it's like 320 shipped.. Can igo wrong with the klipsch subwoofer? He said he will let me test the sub also and that it's working fine even tho it's brand new


Guys, the cheaper velodyne subs are not better than the Klipsch or the eD subs right?


Oh and tulpa, u didn't see the sub 12 that I'm talkin about at Vanns, u saw another Klipsch sub12, the ksw12. It's weaker than the sub 12 I'm talkin about

The Klipsch sub12 is miles better than the onkyo sub right?

I see, I really don't know, they both look very good but I don't think I can wait a month for them to build the ed sub, I just spoke to the guy with the Klipsch on the phone and he said that he is going to come to my home and deliver the sub to me rather than me going to him, so it's like 320 shipped.. Can igo wrong with the klipsch subwoofer? He said he will let me test the sub also and that it's working fine even tho it's brand new


Guys, the cheaper velodyne subs are not better than the Klipsch or the eD subs right?


Oh and tulpa, u didn't see the sub 12 that I'm talkin about at Vanns, u saw another Klipsch sub12, the ksw12. It's weaker than the sub 12 I'm talkin about

The Klipsch sub12 is miles better than the onkyo sub right?

There are always trade-offs in the audio world. Apparently you're fine trading a better sub for quicker delivery. I think the eD sub is the much better deal as it is a better sub, but it's your money.

Yeah, if you want the sub now, go with the Klipsch.

If you truly want the better sub, get the eD A2-300 and wait a month.

The Velodyne shouldn't even be in this discussion.

If I buy the Klipsch I will be dissapointed?

Probably not. It's a good sub.

But you also said you wanted something to follow you into a bigger house. While the Klipsch might also work there, the eD would give a bit more flexibility, due to being the better sub.

If I buy the Klipsch I will be dissapointed?

Today....no!
Next week......maybe not.
Next month.....maybe.
Next year.....yes!

New home with bigger HT space..... most definitely. :(

If I buy the Klipsch I will be dissapointed?

The question isn't whether or not you will be disappointed. Ask yourself if you want the better sub (that is also cheaper) with a 3 week wait, or do you want the slightly more expensive sub that isn't as good today? I'd also think about the fact that you're buying a used sub...likely doesn't have any warranty because most companies won't transfer.

Yeah, if you want the sub now, go with the Klipsch.

If you truly want the better sub, get the eD A2-300 and wait a month.

The Velodyne shouldn't even be in this discussion.

+1

Agreed on all counts. Wait for the eD.

And it isn't like you don't have a sub (of sorts) now. You do have that Onkyo sub.

Wait for the ED...

I see, I really don't know, they both look very good but I don't think I can wait a month for them to build the ed sub, I just spoke to the guy with the Klipsch on the phone and he said that he is going to come to my home and deliver the sub to me rather than me going to him, so it's like 320 shipped.. Can igo wrong with the klipsch subwoofer? He said he will let me test the sub also and that it's working fine even tho it's brand new


Guys, the cheaper velodyne subs are not better than the Klipsch or the eD subs right?


Oh and tulpa, u didn't see the sub 12 that I'm talkin about at Vanns, u saw another Klipsch sub12, the ksw12. It's weaker than the sub 12 I'm talkin about

The Klipsch sub12 is miles better than the onkyo sub right?

there is a reason he want to deliever it. he wants to sell it so he can by the ed sub

Wow, is the eD really that good, so the velodyne or the definitive tech(prosub 600) subs are not good at all compared to the eD? I won't regret if I buy the eD?

And I read peoples reviews sayingvthat the Klipsch sub is so powerfull that when u watch a movie and say there's a dinasour coming you can feel the thumps on your chest, the eD will do that too?

Not too be a....Richard....or anything, but were you actually looking for people's suggestions or just looking for a couple random people on the Internet to say you were making the right choice? Seems slike your mind may have already been made up?

Since I'm here, for the budget, I think the best choice is the eD.

Wow, is the eD really that good, so the velodyne or the definitive tech(prosub 600) subs are not good at all compared to the eD? I won't regret if I buy the eD?

And I read peoples reviews sayingvthat the Klipsch sub is so powerfull that when u watch a movie and say there's a dinasour coming you can feel the thumps on your chest, the eD will do that too?

For an "advanced member" it's certainly taking a lot of time for you to figure this one out. Just buy the sub12. We're all tired of trying to convince you.

For an "advanced member" it's certainly taking a lot of time for you to figure this one out. Just buy the sub12. We're all tired of trying to convince you.

thanks for the laugh. i needed that

my mind is not made up , I'm listening to it suggestions , I changed my mind to get the eD, sorry if my posts didn't reflect that, anyway I asked if the eD produces such a chest thumping bass as the klipch, does it?

I am asking for suggestions on what would be the best sub to get for a max of 400$.

Oh and the eD sub. That costs 315 is the a2 300, the a2 250 costs more, why's that? And is the a3 300 much better than the a2 300

Not too be a....Richard....or anything, but were you actually looking for people's suggestions or just looking for a couple random people on the Internet to say you were making the right choice? Seems slike your mind may have already been made up?

Since I'm here, for the budget, I think the best choice is the eD.


For an "advanced member" it's certainly taking a lot of time for you to figure this one out. Just buy the sub12. We're all tired of trying to convince you.


Hmm, while mine was more subtle, yours was gruff, to the point AND what I was really thinking.

Match goes to thirdeye11

I asked if the eD produces such a chest thumping bass as the klipch, does it?


It depends on what room you have, what you're watching, and what the levels are set at. Stick the eD sub in a gymnasium and you will barely hear it.

For all anyone knows the reviewers of the Klipsch were in a tiny room with the sub between their legs. Hell yeah it'd have chest thumping bass in that situation. So will the eD. Probably moreso.

As long as the room isn't huge, you will most likely get what you want.

my mind is not made up , I'm listening to it suggestions , I changed my mind to get the eD, sorry if my posts didn't reflect that, anyway I asked if the eD produces such a chest thumping bass as the klipch, does it?

I am asking for suggestions on what would be the best sub to get for a max of 400$.

Oh and the eD sub. That costs 315 is the

When people say things like "The eD is the best sub for <$400" we mean it. What that means is:

* The sub will produce lower frequencies louder than any other sub for its price.

Will it produce "chest thumping bass as the klipch"? The amount of "chest thump" you get will depend greatly on many factors which include but are not limited to:

* The size of your room
* The room acoustical treatments you may or may not have
* The response of that particular subwoofer in your room (the frequency response curve based on where you've placed it as placement makes as much of a difference as the sub itself)
* The content you're playing on that subwoofer and whether or not "chest thump" is desired.
* How you have calibrated the subwoofer's response and levels

So right out of the box the majority of people here in this thread think the eD subwoofer is better than the "Klipch". Don't listen to a bunch of people who think they know what they're talking about. You obviously "want it now" so just go buy the sub12 because if 10 people in a row haven't convinced you, then 3 more opinions probably also won't.

-Chad

Oh and the eD sub. That costs 315 is the a2 300, the a2 250 costs more, why's that?

The A2-300 is on special. That's all.



And is the a3 300 much better than the a2 300

It's more powerful. You can see that on the specs. I dunno if it's worth the $160 more.

Hmm, while mine was more subtle, yours was gruff, to the point AND what I was really thinking.

Match goes to thirdeye11

ROFL going back and reading my post I sort of made myself laugh :D

This thread has turned out to be the highlight of my day.

You should have seen the thread about the regular speakers. :D

He just needs to convince himself of whatever he wants. He really can't go wrong, but he can do better. :)

i appriciate everyone's help alot, , i am leaning towards the A2-300 because im going by your recommandations, i was trying to compare the klipsch and the A2-300 in bang for the back wise and quality wise.

I just measured my living room and these are the measurments:

Length:21 ft
Width: 12 ft
Hight: 8 1/2 ft


As a matter of fact, Here are pictures of my living room ( taken with the iphone :) ):

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0002.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0003.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0004.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0005.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0006.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0007.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0008.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0010.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0011.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/X222/IMG_0001.jpg

as you can see onkyo sub is in the left side of the room in the corner

im not trying to convince myself , i was just saying my idea that maybe the klipsch is a better bang for the buck but i can wait for the eD sub and order as i can use my onkyo sub while i wait, i was asking to know if the wait will be worth it

im looking into the future, if , you never know.. ill move to a house or a bigger apartment, and maybe the room will be big, will the eD sub be still good and powerfull in that case or ill need a more "powerfull" sub for that?

Length:21 ft
Width: 12 ft
Hight: 8 1/2 ft

im looking into the future, if , you never know.. ill move to a house or a bigger apartment, and maybe the room will be big, will the eD sub be still good and powerfull in that case or ill need a more "powerfull" sub for that?

You have what is currently considered a small to medium sized room. This is calculated based on the cubic volume of the room itself assuming that it does not open up to any other rooms (meaning it is enclosed, has no open doorways). Since your room DOES open to what appears to be another room or two you have to add the cubic volume of those rooms in order to determine what your subwoofer requirements are.

So you have about 2,200 cu. ft. in the existing room, and then add the cubic dimensions of the adjoining rooms as well as any rooms that adjoin to those. So you might actually have a "large" room. The A2-300 is not a 'large room' subwoofer, but is designed for small to medium sized rooms. Based on this information I'd say that the ED is the very least subwoofer you would want even in your existing space, let alone a larger room. Now if you moved into a 20 x 12 x 8 ft. enclosed room the ED is probably more than adequate. By the way the only way to get a 'large room' subwoofer is to increase your budget. For your <$400 budget the ED will be your best bet. In order to move up to a 'large room' subwoofer one of the least expensive options would be the MFW-15 from AV123 which is on sale at $719 + shipping. The Hsu Research VTF-3 MK3 at $799 would be another good option.

The other thing you MUST do to control the room acoustics in there is at bare minimum put down a large area rug or nothing will sound good in that room. The wood floors are just going to ruin any good sound you might normally get out of that room.

-Chad

Just to echo the replies here. Upgrading from HTIB, I just ordered an equivalent Def Tech system (2 PM1000, PC1000, 2 BP1.2x) and decided to stray away from Definitive for my sub purchase. There are really only 3 or 4 subs in the pricerange that always get mentioned around here, with the eD seeming to be the most common. So I also have an A2-300 on the way. Read up in the eD thread.

Unfortunately, I can't give my review as my components aren't here yet, but take heart that someone went through a similar journey and came up with very similar decisions.

Seeing as you're in an apartment, I wouldn't worry about going too big on the sub now unless your neighbors are very understanding. The eD A2-300 will get MUCH louder and MUCH deeper than your current Onkyo sub if you crank the volume. I think the A2-300 is as big as you should go, and even then you might need to be careful with how loud you listen.

from my limited knowledge and understanding of subs, you could also add a second a2-300 down the road if your room becomes too large for it.

Save your $$ now and get as much sub as you can afford. Or you will be like me. You will spend more for less. My room is the same as your but the Ht area is off the side of my kitchen. So1/3 is Ht 2/3 is kitchen but it's the same open space. I ended up like this.
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06016.jpg
Had on Pb10 sounded okay. Added another sounded okay
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06122.jpg
Now I added a valor. I would have sold the Pb10 and got a Conquest or something but the rooms to small. I'll probally end up with 4 more subs :). naw my point is the the most sub now you will $ave later. If your looking at the Ed get the biggest one you can afford and have room for and be done. That's if you are moving into a house soon like you say. you don't need to turn it up loud. If your in an apt keep what you have and really save for something good.JMO/JME

Well i dont want to keep using the Onkyo sub, its really crappy now that compared it to the subs u guys recommanded. and also to tell u how SIMPLE of a sub it is, on the back of the sub, the jack where the subwoofer cable is going in, theres only 1 single jack, so im using a single cable to connect the sub to the reciever,

the way better subs are, they have 2 jacks on the back and u use a difference kind of cable, its a cable that has 2 plugs at one end and 1 plug on the the other, 2 plugs go into the 2 jacks on the back of the subwoofer and the 1 plug goes into the subwoofer jack on the reciever.


By the way, i scratched the klipsch off my list because first of all taking your advice that its not a good sub and i have found an amazing deal on an even better sub . it is probably a better sub than both the Klipsch 650watt sub and the A2 300.

Its the Definitive Technology ProSub 1000 Subwoofer, these are the specs:

Specifications:


Complement: One 10" woofer with polymer cone coupled to one 10" infrasonic radiator
Amplifier: 300 Watts RMS
Speaker Level High-Pass

Filter: 6 db/octave (80 Hz)
High-Level Low-Pass Filter: 24 db/octave continuously variable (40 Hz – 150 Hz) plus unfiltered LFE directcoupled input


Frequency Response: 18 Hz – 150 Hz

Approximate Dimensions:


Height: 14-7/16"
Width: 12"
Depth: 17-7/8"



I can get that sub for a very very good price, $395 shipped brand new. and they also said it would be the best because since my speakers are defenitive tech speakers then this definitive tech sub would match the best with the speakers but putting that aside, for the price i dont think i can get anything better.

this sub goes as low as 18hz which is like the A2 300 but the A2 300 goes only UPTO 100hz, the Def Tech sub goes upto 150hz.

What do you guys say about the def tech sub? you have my room measurments and even pictures of my complete living room from many angles.

the only thing about that sub is that it doesnt have like a control on the back to lower the volume of the sub but it can be simply done from the reciever so..

2 jacks doesn't make a better sub.
I would get a good 12" driver vs a 10" driver if you are just reading specs which really how do you know they are accurate? Some Def Tech subs are good but they are expensive $1K +++ Dunno about the one you posted??

Well i dont want to keep using the Onkyo sub, its really crappy now that compared it to the subs u guys recommanded. and also to tell u how SIMPLE of a sub it is, on the back of the sub, the jack where the subwoofer cable is going in, theres only 1 single jack, so im using a single cable to connect the sub to the reciever,

the way better subs are, they have 2 jacks on the back and u use a difference kind of cable, its a cable that has 2 plugs at one end and 1 plug on the the other, 2 plugs go into the 2 jacks on the back of the subwoofer and the 1 plug goes into the subwoofer jack on the reciever.


By the way, i scratched the klipsch off my list because first of all taking your advice that its not a good sub and i have found an amazing deal on an even better sub . it is probably a better sub than both the Klipsch 650watt sub and the A2 300.

Its the Definitive Technology ProSub 1000 Subwoofer, these are the specs:

Specifications:


Complement: One 10" woofer with polymer cone coupled to one 10" infrasonic radiator
Amplifier: 300 Watts RMS
Speaker Level High-Pass

Filter: 6 db/octave (80 Hz)
High-Level Low-Pass Filter: 24 db/octave continuously variable (40 Hz – 150 Hz) plus unfiltered LFE directcoupled input


Frequency Response: 18 Hz – 150 Hz

Approximate Dimensions:


Height: 14-7/16"
Width: 12"
Depth: 17-7/8"



I can get that sub for a very very good price, $395 shipped brand new. and they also said it would be the best because since my speakers are defenitive tech speakers then this definitive tech sub would match the best with the speakers but putting that aside, for the price i dont think i can get anything better.

this sub goes as low as 18hz which is like the A2 300 but the A2 300 goes only UPTO 100hz, the Def Tech sub goes upto 150hz.

What do you guys say about the def tech sub? you have my room measurments and even pictures of my complete living room from many angles.

the only thing about that sub is that it doesnt have like a control on the back to lower the volume of the sub but it can be simply done from the reciever so..

Having a sub of the same brand as your speakers is not a priority...in fact, doesn't even need to be a consideration. The upper range of the frequency response also isn't important because it shouldn't really be playing that high as your other speakers should be handling that range. I did a quick search and found a few threads recommending the eD sub over the Def Tech you're looking at. You've asked for our advice, we've given a nearly unanimous opinion in favor of the eD. Just order it and be done.

And as IronMike pointed out, you want to use the single LFE input instead of the others available.

ugh, i know it doesnt but i was just trying to make a point how mediocre my onkyo sub is and why would i "want" the sub to have a single subwoofer jack, as far as i saw, all the good subs have 2 jacks and u use a cable that has 2 plugs on one side and one plug one the other side..

well the def tech that i posted is the top ProSub that they have.. 300watt and it goes lower than the A2 300. (18hz vs 20 hz). i asked a few people who own this too and they said it sounds phenomenal.

i mean this sub costs $499, cant find cheaper anywhere(atleast from where i look and i looked at the best places for cheap prices ..) and the best one in the ProSub category.


So my choice has to be made between this def tech prosub 1000 and the eD?

ugh, i know it doesnt but i was just trying to make a point how mediocre my onkyo sub is..

well the def tech that i posted is the top ProSub that they have.. 300watt and it goes lower than the A2 300. (18hz vs 20 hz). i asked a few people who own this too and they said it sounds phenomenal.

also the idea that if i have def tech speakers , i should also go for a matching def tech sub makes sense in a way, i mean this sub costs $499, cant find cheaper anywhere(atleast from where i look and i looked at the best places for cheap prices ..)

No, matching a sub brand to speakers just to have them match makes no sense in any way. Just because the Def Tech costs more doesn't mean anything. The entire point of internet direct companies is to offer better products at lower prices. The eD sub is the better sub. As I said, I found several threads in which the same exact question was posed and the eD was recommended. If you don't want our advice, stop asking for it. Go buy your Def Tech sub and be happy. Also Def Tech doesn't use industry standard +/- 3 measurements, so the specs you listed for frequency response are questionable at best.

I don't own an eD sub, don't plan to ever buy one, but the eD is the better sub.

why are you being rude to me? am i being rude to you?. why are you saying stuff like " If you don't want our advice, stop asking for it."

where did i say i dont want your advice, i apologized once above where i said that sorry if i posted in a way that reflected me not listening to you..

I am conisdering the Def Tech sub because i can get it for a good price. i dont understand what could be "Better" in the eD sub than the Def Tech or even the Klipsch sub for that matter.. can you explain it to me?


So my choice boils down to either the eD A2 300 or the Def Tech Pro1000 or is there another sub i should consider? i can also go for the smaller Def Tech SubPro 800 but for the money it just looks like it'll be a better bang for the buck to go for the Pro1000 rather than the 800 because im basically paying the price of a SubPro 800 for a SubPro 1000.

Thanks

This is off topic, but I would would rearrange that room. I would move the couch to the opposite side and centered on the wall. Put the TV where the couch is, centered. Spread the mains further apart. Put one surround where the TV is now and the other one on the longer opening wall. Put the rears at the couch extremes. Then you can place the sub in the same corner, the corner where the TV is now, or moved closer to the center by the TV. I think you will get much better channel separation, yielding a better 3D sound experience. Just my 2 cents.

hm thanks ransac (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=7577831), i kindda do want to rearrange the living room. we will have a paint job done in the whole house next week so when that happens i think we might re arrange the room, we are also considering getting a new couch and moving the couch that we have there now into another room,

Btw i recieved a few Pms on what LCD i have in the picture, its the Samsung 52" A650 120hz LCD HDTV. its an unbelivable tv, worth every penny.

Well i dont want to keep using the Onkyo sub, its really crappy now that compared it to the subs u guys recommanded. and also to tell u how SIMPLE of a sub it is, on the back of the sub, the jack where the subwoofer cable is going in, theres only 1 single jack, so im using a single cable to connect the sub to the reciever,

the way better subs are, they have 2 jacks on the back and u use a difference kind of cable, its a cable that has 2 plugs at one end and 1 plug on the the other, 2 plugs go into the 2 jacks on the back of the subwoofer and the 1 plug goes into the subwoofer jack on the reciever.


By the way, i scratched the klipsch off my list because first of all taking your advice that its not a good sub and i have found an amazing deal on an even better sub . it is probably a better sub than both the Klipsch 650watt sub and the A2 300.

Its the Definitive Technology ProSub 1000 Subwoofer, these are the specs:

Specifications:


Complement: One 10" woofer with polymer cone coupled to one 10" infrasonic radiator
Amplifier: 300 Watts RMS
Speaker Level High-Pass

Filter: 6 db/octave (80 Hz)
High-Level Low-Pass Filter: 24 db/octave continuously variable (40 Hz – 150 Hz) plus unfiltered LFE directcoupled input


Frequency Response: 18 Hz – 150 Hz

Approximate Dimensions:


Height: 14-7/16"
Width: 12"
Depth: 17-7/8"



I can get that sub for a very very good price, $395 shipped brand new. and they also said it would be the best because since my speakers are defenitive tech speakers then this definitive tech sub would match the best with the speakers but putting that aside, for the price i dont think i can get anything better.

this sub goes as low as 18hz which is like the A2 300 but the A2 300 goes only UPTO 100hz, the Def Tech sub goes upto 150hz.

What do you guys say about the def tech sub? you have my room measurments and even pictures of my complete living room from many angles.

the only thing about that sub is that it doesnt have like a control on the back to lower the volume of the sub but it can be simply done from the reciever so..
Man, just go with the ed sub. It will probally play lower and louder than that definite tech sub. YOur sub does not need to be a matching brand. Most people here crossover their sub at 80hz. Above 80hz is what your speakers are suppose to handle. The ed sub's -3b point is 18hz. the def tech website does not show a -3b point for their spec. It can be-10db or something like that.:D another thing to look at is the weight. The def tech is like 35 pounds. the ed comes in at a whopping 72 lbs. It will be a better deal since its a internet direct manufacture. Internet direct companies cut out the middle man and pass the saving on to you. :D Go with the ed and you will be happy.

why are you being rude to me? am i being rude to you?. why are you saying stuff like " If you don't want our advice, stop asking for it."

where did i say i dont want your advice, i apologized once above where i said that sorry if i posted in a way that reflected me not listening to you..

I am conisdering the Def Tech sub because i can get it for a good price. i dont understand what could be "Better" in the eD sub than the Def Tech or even the Klipsch sub for that matter.. can you explain it to me?


So my choice boils down to either the eD A2 300 or the Def Tech Pro1000 or is there another sub i should consider? i can also go for the smaller Def Tech SubPro 800 but for the money it just looks like it'll be a better bang for the buck to go for the Pro1000 rather than the 800 because im basically paying the price of a SubPro 800 for a SubPro 1000.

Thanks

This is my last post on the matter. A good price is a combination of price and performance. The ProSub 1000 at $395 isn't a good price, especially considering the eD at $315. I suggest you search "prosub1000" and you will see several threads where a near consensus is reached in choosing the eD offerings over the Def Tech. Def Tech's specs are crap...the sub has little to no output below 50 Hz. If you want a good sub, get the eD. If you want a less capable sub, get the Def Tech. It's not nearly as complicated as you're making it. Listen to the excellent advice EVERYONE has given you and you'll be much happier.

As has been stated several times: the eD offers better components, better output, better sound, and a better price. If you can't see why everyone has recommended the eD, then we can't help you. Enjoy whatever you get.

Judging by the post here on avs the def tech pro 1000 sub drops off significantly below 40hz. Their 18hz spec is bull as I mentioned earlier they don't provide a -3db point on their spec. :D Ed is the way to go at $315 shipped. Its a little beast lol. By the way I have a hsu vtf3.3 turbo and mbm-12. So im not pushing ed because I own their products. Im telling you to get the ed sub becuase its the best value for your money. It is a very popular sub on these forums. you will not regret it especially coming from a crappy hometheater in a box sub. ;) Be patient too.:D

I can't believe you guys are still feeding this guy ED recommendations.

I have a recommendation for you:

DON'T BUY THE ED. BUY ANY SUB BUT THE ED.

Now watch, he'll buy it :D

Some of you are being a little harsh on the OP. He is just trying to explore his options and has asked for some recommendations from those with first-hand experience. This isn't a place to make edicts. The A2-300 is not the only sub that meets his needs. Though I haven't heard one, I am pretty sure it isn't the world beater you are all making it out to be. Not everyone wants a big ugly box in their living room. If eD ever gets a sense of style, then maybe they will be more difficult to dismiss.

How many of you bought the sub that was recommended to you without exploring other options. Did the people that made recommendations, you didn't take, call you a fool? You were all newbies at one time. Some of you have one sub, like it, and think everybody should buy one. That makes your recommendation pretty weak as it doesn't come from broad experience. So give this guy a break.

Some of you are being a little harsh on the OP. He is just trying to explore his options and has asked for some recommendations from those with first-hand experience. This isn't a place to make edicts. The A2-300 is not the only sub that meets his needs. Though I haven't heard one, I am pretty sure it isn't the world beater you are all making it out to be. Not everyone wants a big ugly box in their living room. If eD ever gets a sense of style, then maybe they will be more difficult to dismiss.

How many of you bought the sub that was recommended to you without exploring other options. Did the people that made recommendations, you didn't take, call you a fool? You were all newbies at one time. Some of you have one sub, like it, and think everybody should buy one. That makes your recommendation pretty weak as it doesn't come from broad experience. So give this guy a break.
I agree with Randy.

I think it would be smart to understand who has and hasn't heard the actual sub(s) they are recommending, or compared it to any other sub.

Personally I have not heard the ED sub. I recommend it based upon user reviews in these forums only. So take my word with a grain of salt. I have however heard the ProSub1000 that's been recommended to the OP and it sounded terrible to my ears; to me it did not even sound like a $250 subwoofer let alone $400-500. I have heard the entire B&W lineup, the entire DefTech lineup, several from Mirage, I own an Epik Tower, but have little else to compare to.

Based on what I know about internet direct models versus retail brands however and my personal experience with each type of company I feel compelled to recommend someone with a very limited budget (and I would consider $400 on a subwoofer including shipping/taxes extremely limited) to internet direct only. Based on supply chains alone (and eliminating used retail brands from the mix) then getting anywhere close to an internet direct brand's $315 subwoofer you would have to spend $500 minimum at retail (with discounts) to equal the build cost of the components.

I can't imagine anything from Polk, DefTech, Klipsch, B&W, Dynaudio, Mirage, Energy, Paradigm, or really any other retail brand's $315 subwoofer sounding as good as ED's A2 300. Show me another ID brand and I'd probably entertain the idea. I'm not close minded about this, just realistic. Is the A2 300 a world beater? Probably not but for $315 I think until something else proves worth mentioning in the same budget/performance ratio people will continue to recommend it above all else at its price point.

I agree with Randy.

I think it would be smart to understand who has and hasn't heard the actual sub(s) they are recommending, or compared it to any other sub.

The thing is there is alot of info on these forums about the id subs. Researching on avs and asking questions will lead most people to make some sort of decision. Most people have to take a leap of fate with id companies since most can't audition them before. I have heard different subs including the a2-300 and the sub-10 and sub-12. I have heard the vtf3.3 and ho and mbm-12 I think the a2-300 is very good subwoofer at its price range. Especially if appearance doesn't mater much. :D Its about performance per dollar. Im just going to say the subs at bestbuy are just not worth it compared to What the Internet direct companies offer. For the OP budget of $400 total the a2-300 will be very difficult to beat.:) Whatever route he chooses he should be very happy since he only is familiar with a cheap hometheater in a box sub.

I recommend it based upon user reviews in these forums only.
That is basically my point. Of those user reviews, how many of those owners have heard other subs in that price range, or have done actual comparisons?

That is basically my point. Of those user reviews, how many of those owners have heard other subs in that price range, or have done actual comparisons?

+1 million.

take everyone's opinions with a grain of salt. they're all relative to something.

like i said i raised my budget to around 400-450.. is the def tech really not going down to 18hz? is there some proof for that?

from my research , my only 2 choices around that price range are the def tech pro1000 sub and the A2 300 , the thing that im scared of is that i will not like the bass the A2 300 produces because i never heared it and because this is the first time that im hearing about the company called eD Designs, and if anything, i wont have a way to return it because they custom built it for me and i dont even know who they are.

The A2 300 is their CHEAPEST sub, i dont think its a better sub than anything, obviously the A3 - 300 Subwoofer is MUCH better, going by weight, its 15 pounds or so more.. so if the A2 300 beats the Def tech or the klipsch, then going by that the A3 - 300 Subwoofer will completely destroy any $500 -600 sub out there performance wise?

Im just trying to get a sub that will produce nice, clean and not "boomy" bass that makes you feel the action.

a3plew (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=7958596), U said you heared the def tech pro1000, can you please tell me why it was terrible? i want to get to a decision tonight but the thing is that the guys here in the thread that recommand the eD so much dont even own one, they own a completely different sub, how can they be so sure it sound better than some other sub

and not that looks matter but the edsub does look kindda ugly and basically looks just like a little black box rather than having a design..

like i said i raised my budget to around 400-450.. is the def tech really not going down to 18hz? is there some proof for that?

from my research , my only 2 choices around that price range are the def tech pro1000 sub and the A2 300 , the thing that im scared of is that i will not like the bass the A2 300 produces because i never heared it and because this is the first time that im hearing about the company called eD Designs, and if anything, i wont have a way to return it because they custom built it for me and i dont even know who they are.

The A2 300 is their CHEAPEST sub, i dont think its a better sub than anything, obviously the A3 - 300 Subwoofer is MUCH better, going by weight, its 15 pounds or so more.. so if the A2 300 beats the Def tech or the klipsch, then going by that the A3 - 300 Subwoofer will completely destroy any $500 -600 sub out there performance wise?

Im just trying to get a sub that will produce nice, clean and not "boomy" bass that makes you feel the action.

a3plew (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=7958596), U said you heared the def tech pro1000, can you please tell me why it was terrible? i want to get to a decision tonight but the thing is that the guys here in the thread that recommand the eD so much dont even own one, they own a completely different sub, how can they be so sure it sound better than some other sub

and not that looks matter but the edsub does look kinda ugly and basically looks just like a little black box rather than having a design..
No one said your sub choice is terrible.:D Audio is a subjective thing. I didnt think the def tech was boomy. You can check it out at bestbuy if you want the pro 1000 is available at most magnolia best buy demo rooms. It sounded good. It just didn't go as low as I wanted. To me its about extension and headroom for as little money as possible. That is why I choose the internet direct route. The lower bass notes are felt more than heard and adds a nice effect in movies. I would describe low bass as room shaking,pulsating lows that are not audible,or if your down in the 20hz area it wont seem as loud to your years. The bass from 25hz and below down to as low as you can afford Adds a real tactile element to movies, once these are experienced with a good sub, you wont believe what you were missing. The klipsch sub is loud, at times it seemed boomy. Maybe it was pushed to hard but I wouldn't judge how a sub sounds until you take it home. The way a sub sounds is going to be affected by your room and placement. The ed sub is damn loud for the price and is tuned to 20hz, I believe. It didn't sound boomy at my friends house. It was really clean and could do 20hz with authority. Imho the ed is worth the price and wait time. I know it feels uncomfortable buying something you cannot hear before you buy, but you can search avs or other hometheater enthusiutest sites and find many pics and info on the a2-300. As your budget goes up It becomes more difficult to make choices. Its a wonderful time to be buying a subwoofer. These Internet direct companies pretty much can only be beat by D.I.Y subwoofers. The ed subwoofer imho is better than the pro1000 and sub-12. Be careful though once you experience deep strong lows you might start to get a subwoofer addiction:D.
I had your budget when I first started researching on what subwoofer to get. I thought that would be the max I would ever spend on a subwoofer. I was so wrong lol. The more I researched and read the more my budget grew.Then I went to around $700. Eventually I ended spending over $1000 on subwoofers.:eek: Coming from a $300 budget. Also I dont know were your located by try and see if you have any internet direct companies near you so you can audition them. I found out Hsu research was local to me. Auditioning subs at best buy and and other audio video stores around los angeles led me to buy Id subwoofers.:D You will be happy with whatever decision you make. There is plenty of info on Id subwoofers. Also as your budget grows People tend to push you to spend just a little bit more. YOu gotta find a place to stop. Maybe one day you get a 700-800 dollar budget and be looking at some beast like the Mfw-15 or another big subwoofer in that price range.:D The ED is one ugly sub but it sure can perform:D. Sorry if some sentences don't make sense im just waking up and trying to get ready to finish some for my online class lol. :cool:

lol and on a off topic question to you.:D I recently took off my carpet due to so many drinks being spilled, and I am now looking at buying some flooring. I think your floors are very nice and look easy to clean. Did your apartment come with the flooring or is that something you bought? :D If you bought it, did you install it yourself?

Another extremely well qualified and respected sub in that price range
would be the Rythmik Audio kit subs... I know its a bit more then the other ideas here, but I think its a better alternative.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS15.html

Particularly the DS1500 sealed, with 12-24db A370XLR servo amplifier $499.00
They also have 12" kits as well... if you need smaller
Assembly of the subwoofer is free when both kit and enclosure are ordered.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/images/15_walnut_front_590x472.jpg

Hehe my apartment came like that, it's really easy to clean. A3 plew thanks for the great info m8, I think I will get addicted to subs hehe, I think I'm going to go for the def tech 1000 , the a2 300 might sound good but I can't test it, it sure is ugly too.

Are u sure the pro1000 doesn't go down to 18 hz?

And the low frequency feeling that a good sub provides as you described, the pro 1000 will provide that feeling right?

The Klipsch is out of my list tottaly cuz I was told it will overpower my setup and I dont need that. I'm final about the price tho, no more than 400 and I can get the prosub1000 for 395 shipped brand new, I don't want the a2 300 regardless of the great reviews cuz I need to wait, I didn't hear it in person and Ill haves hassle returning it If I don't like it so I'm gonna pass

So I have the prosub1000 , is there any better sub for 400-450 that will outperform the prosub1000? Other than the eD subwoofers.

That is basically my point. Of those user reviews, how many of those owners have heard other subs in that price range, or have done actual comparisons?

i do own 2 of the a2-300's.
i have also had the klipsch sub.
the klipsch sub sounded good at the time because i had no reference point.
like i said i still have the a2-300's and they sound good to me. their reference
point is now twin epik towers.
they are the real deal. they play low, and loud in the room they are in.
and yes they are ugly. they are a year old, and ed has toned down even their regular finish now.
as many know i am far from an ed fan boy, but that is neither here, nor there.
do i think the a2-300 is a steal at $315? without a doubt.
i think that one would have to step up to ed's next model to beat it.
after that there is more competition.
the only thing is the wait. but the free shipping more than makes up for that.
if you dont want to wait you either buy some crap from a teenager at a local best buys, or pay much more for hsu,svs comparable offerings

Another extremely well qualified and respected sub in that price range
would be the Rythmik Audio kit subs... I know its a bit more then the other ideas here, but I think its a better alternative.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS15.html

Particularly the DS1500 sealed, with 12-24db A370XLR servo amplifier $499.00
They also have 12" kits as well... if you need smaller
Assembly of the subwoofer is free when both kit and enclosure are ordered.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/images/15_walnut_front_590x472.jpg




That looks like a me sub but500 is too expensive and I also can't test that sub and I never heated of that company

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1.html
Elemental designs in is Iowa.
Hsu research is located in Anaheim,California
Svs is in Ohio.
These subs are great performers. The svs will probably hit your budget limit with shipping and tax. But will go to 20hz. The pro 1000 sub definitely does not go low. It would be really great as a music only sub, but for movies it will be lacking. It just doesn't have that pressure feeling of the deep bass frequencies.;) Movies have plenty of low bass nowadays. :D The klipsch goes lower but it just doesn't seem to have much if anything at around 20hz. The Hsu is good to around 25hz which is pretty low. I think it would be more useful if you said were your located. Maybe you can Pm some members that are local to you and get a demo of an Id sub. They can show you examples of movies and music with low bass to show you what you have been missing. :D Maybe you can find someone with a Ed sub to show you how well it performs. It is easy to audition subs from best buy too. Bring one or both home and return the one you don't like.:D(make sure the return policy allows you to do this.)

That looks like a me sub but500 is too expensive and I also can't test that sub and I never heated of that companyOK lamonsasa. Last night I defended you for continuing to ask questions about other subs, even though the consensus was pointing you to the eD A2-300. But today, some of your excuses for discounting the eD are pretty weak. If you will only purchase a sub you can hear, then go to Best Buy and make a selection. I can tell you that you will not get the better sub for the money. If you open your mind and listen to eD owner comments, which are overwhelmingly positive, then you should be able to buy with confidence. The eD is not customized for you, it is built to order. Very different. Shipping is also free. If you don't live in Iowa, and you are as honest with your state taxes as the rest of us, then there is no sales tax either. So the A2-300 is $315 total. Add sales tax to the DT and it will be more. I also believe the eD has a zero cost return policy (but I don't see a satisfaction guaranty on their web site). But, if you are not happy with it, you can return it. You can also order the better looking matte finish for an added $35 and with your floors, I would add the hourglass feet instead of the spikes, for $15. Total, to your door, is $365. The only downside to this choice, that I see, may be the wait.

On the other hand, I don't believe the DT is as bad as some make it out to be. If you buy it from the same source as your DT speakers, I would go back and negotiate a package price.

Another extremely well qualified and respected sub in that price range
would be the Rythmik Audio kit subs... I know its a bit more then the other ideas here, but I think its a better alternative.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS15.html

Particularly the DS1500 sealed, with 12-24db A370XLR servo amplifier $499.00
They also have 12" kits as well... if you need smaller
Assembly of the subwoofer is free when both kit and enclosure are ordered.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/images/15_walnut_front_590x472.jpg
I made the same mistake. The kit does not include the enclosure.

I made the same mistake. The kit does not include the enclosure.

Thanks for the heads up Randy.... that is helpful to know..

Thanks for the heads up Randy.... that is helpful to know..When Curtis first posted about this sub, I thought it was one hell of a deal for $499. But you have to look further down the page to see the box price. This still looks like a terrific sub, even at the $800 price point.

Well the negotiation price is 395 with the speaker package, I just came back from best buy and I heared the pro1000 , I don't know it was kindsa boomy sounding but that was on full volume(there's a volume knob on the sub). They told me that the def tech supercubes are better than the prosubs tho but I these are out ofmy budget,

Is the a2 300 gonna be better for movies than the subro1000?

What makes a sub good for movies is what makes a sub good. Sound quality, linearity (a contributer to SQ), deep extension (lower frequency response), and volume (higher, clean SPL). SQ is subjective but does have some measurable aspects, like distortion and linearity. Some people actually like a boomy sound. It depends on what you are used to hearing. Linearity, extension, and volume are all demonstrable (measurable) qualities. Linearity and max volume are what they are and a manufacturer can't fudge these unless they manipulate the graphs. A manufacturer can claim lower extension, but, if they don't qualify it at the -3dB point, it is a worthless claim.

As to what the eD or DT can do, you will have to find third-party measurements as I didn't find the measurements at either manufacturers web sites. Maybe someone can point you to some published tests.

I don't think either of these subs would make it to the top of anyones list. but as you start lowering the price limit, they start to move up. You are looking for a good budget sub, so your option are going to be limited.

Well the negotiation price is 395 with the speaker package, I just came back from best buy and I heared the pro1000 , I don't know it was kindsa boomy sounding but that was on full volume(there's a volume knob on the sub). They told me that the def tech supercubes are better than the prosubs tho but I these are out ofmy budget,

Is the a2 300 gonna be better for movies than the subro1000?

If the less polished look of the Ed A2-300 isn't a problem, it iss the way to go.

OK lamonsasa. Last night I defended you for continuing to ask questions about other subs, even though the consensus was pointing you to the eD A2-300. But today, some of your excuses for discounting the eD are pretty weak. If you will only purchase a sub you can hear, then go to Best Buy and make a selection. I can tell you that you will not get the better sub for the money. If you open your mind and listen to eD owner comments, which are overwhelming positive, then you should be able to buy with confidence. The eD is not customized for you, it is built to order. Very different. Shipping is also free. If you don't live in Iowa, and you are as honest with your state taxes as the rest of us, then there is no sales tax either. So the A2-300 is $315 total. Add sales tax to the DT and it will be more. I also believe the eD has a zero cost return policy (but I don't see a satisfaction guaranty on their web site). But, if you are not happy with it, you can return it. You can also order the better looking matte finish for an added $35 and with your floors, I would add the hourglass feet instead of the spikes, for $15. Total, to your door, is $365. The only downside to this choice, that I see, may be the wait.

On the other hand, I don't believe the DT is as bad as some make it out to be. If you buy it from the same source as your DT speakers, I would go back and negotiate a package price.

I didn't read anyone saying the DT was bad just that there specs probably aren't accurate? 18hz?? Doubt it. I agree you want to hear your sub just go get the DT it's probably wayyy better than the htib Onkyo sub. IME ID brand are good value ppl have mentioned that xxxx times you keep asking the same thing

Well the negotiation price is 395 with the speaker package, I just came back from best buy and I heared the pro1000 , I don't know it was kindsa boomy sounding but that was on full volume(there's a volume knob on the sub). They told me that the def tech supercubes are better than the prosubs tho but I these are out ofmy budget,

Is the a2 300 gonna be better for movies than the subro1000?
lol yeah that is why best buy and these other stores with a displays are not the best place to audition speakers. It can sound totally different in your room. Hope you can find a Id company near you or a avs member with a id sub near you so you can judge for yourself.

When Curtis first posted about this sub, I thought it was one hell of a deal for $499. But you have to look further down the page to see the box price. This still looks like a terrific sub, even at the $800 price point.
As I posted in another thread, I think as for subs and sound quality, it is best deal going.

I dunno the 1 month wait is holding me back, the prosub 1000 is not considered a high quality sub?

And the def tech super cubes, I would have gotten that but it's out of my budget


I have one question , which one is better, the Klipsch sub12 or the def tech subpro1000?

I dunno the 1 month wait is holding me back, the prosub 1000 is not considered a high quality sub?

And the def tech super cubes, I would have gotten that but it's out of my budget


I have one question , which one is better, the Klipsch sub12 or the def tech subpro1000?

I really don't think there is a month wait on the ed a2-300 I ordered mine on 9-10-08 and and its already in the paint room according to the updates on their website. So I hoping that it ships this week.

Yeah, when we said "a month's wait," that's like worst possible scenario. Like they had the amps backordered. If you email them, they could probably tell you when to expect them, and you can track the progress.

As for Klipsch vs. Def Tech, I have no idea.

I dunno the 1 month wait is holding me back, the prosub 1000 is not considered a high quality sub?

And the def tech super cubes, I would have gotten that but it's out of my budget


I have one question , which one is better, the Klipsch sub12 or the def tech subpro1000?Do yourself a favor. Confirm the Best Buy return policy on a speaker. It should be 30 days, no restocking fee if undamaged and in original packing. Buy the DT, take it home, carefully unpack it, hook it up, and watch a movie or two. If you like it, keep it. If you don't, order the eD and keep the DT for 29 days to reduce the eD wait time, then take it back. Couldn't be easier.

Basically agree with the others here. If you don't mind the appearance of the eD (and the wait), then it's a good value. Other well regarded subwoofers in your price range (just to muddy the waters a bit):

Hsu Research STF-2:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-2.html
Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Compact:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmcompact.html
Acculine ASub:
http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php/p/acculine-asub/products_id/68?osCsid=64a492fb16fb95cd9c37eb44515f4b86
BIC Acoustech H-100:
http://www.acousticsounddesign.com/core/view_BigProduct.cfm?pid=1062&sc=32


Disclaimer: I own the Outlaw LFM Compact.

Guys, what about the Def tech supercube III? it hits 16Hz — 200Hz. wow

I would be a little leery of those numbers. They dont tell you how many decibels down they are at 16 hz.

Guys, what about the Def tech supercube III? it hits 16Hz — 200Hz. wow
No. Just because they say 16Hz, does not mean it is at usable levels. Just about anyone can claim very low frequency response, but it needs to be at high enough volumes to be audible/tactile. Just because the driver will move in and out at 16 Hz means nothing. This is just a 7.5" driver/PR system. You're listening to salespeople. Stop doing that.

Make them prove it. Ask for the anechoic FR graph. They will either say what, or we don't publish that information. Either way, it makes their claim worthless.

I did a quick search for you on that sub. Nousaine did a test of this sub. It's response measured:
44-110 hz @ +/- 2.3db.

Here is the link for the tests and some comparisons.
http://home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm

Some of these manufacturers get very generous with their specs, and bank on the fact that most consumers don't know what these numbers mean. "Hey, who's gonna notice if we leave off the +/- 3db???"


I dont have any experience with this sub, I am just pointing out a few things.

I did a quick search for you on that sub. Nousaine did a test of this sub. It's response measured:
44-110 hz @ +/- 2.3db.

Here is the link for the tests and some comparisons.
http://home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm

Some of these manufacturers get very generous with their specs, and bank on the fact that most consumers don't know what these numbers mean. "Hey, who's gonna notice if we leave off the +/- 3db???"


I dont have any experience with this sub, I am just pointing out a few things.

44-110hz thats funny.
why would anyone even consider this?
maybe because it is the only garbage in the store!

I did a quick search for you on that sub. Nousaine did a test of this sub. It's response measured:
44-110 hz @ +/- 2.3db.

Here is the link for the tests and some comparisons.
http://home.comcast.net/~frank_carter/Nousaine.htm

Some of these manufacturers get very generous with their specs, and bank on the fact that most consumers don't know what these numbers mean. "Hey, who's gonna notice if we leave off the +/- 3db???"


I dont have any experience with this sub, I am just pointing out a few things.It would appear that this chart is all that you need. Pick the one within your budget that tested the best and buy it. Personally, since most of the numbers people get all warm and runny about can only be heard by a dog, I picked the one that sounded the best in real world conditions. That sub was the Def Tech SuperCube Ref. for me. By the way: On a scale of 1 to 10, if I turned this sub to a volume level above 4, I would break every glass in my house and slide the house right off of the foundation.

I think dogs have the advantage in the higher frequencies not the lower frequencies.

I think dogs have the advantage in the higher frequencies not the lower frequencies.OK. Forget what I wrote. The owner of this thread is looking for a sub that cost less than $400 that is flat below 20Hz with a SPL above 120db's. I'm sure these are readily available:confused: My point was: Every recommendation has been shot down because of one thing or another. What is the point of giving advice based on personal listenning experience when you will be told that you're wrong and that data doesn't support your advice. Waste of time and energy. Good night my friends.

you know it doesnt really matter how much i spend but around the 500s i want to get one sub that will be awesome and that will last me for a long time that will go low and provide me with good bass, thats all i want

so the Supercube subwoofer is not a good sub? i am NOT listening to sales people, im reading reviews online of people who bought the sub, everyone seems impressed, its a crappy subwoofer? im puzzled..

everyone i asked said the Def tech subs provide a really nice and clean bass but here on avs you guys are so negative about these subs..

the supercube is NOT better than the ProSub 1000? i was under the impression it was better..

you know it doesnt really matter how much i spend but around the 500s i want to get one sub that will be awesome and that will last me for a long time that will go low and provide me with good bass, thats all i want

so the Supercube subwoofer is not a good sub? i am NOT listening to sales people, im reading reviews online of people who bought the sub, everyone seems impressed, its a crappy subwoofer? im puzzled..

everyone i asked said the Def tech subs provide a really nice and clean bass but here on avs you guys are so negative about these subs..

the supercube is NOT better than the ProSub 1000? i was under the impression it was better..If you have a 20' x 20' x 14' room, the SuperCube I would be more sub than you will ever need. You would never be able to turn the volume all the way up without breaking something of value in your home. Let the poets write about that there my friend!

If you have a 20' x 20' x 14' room, the SuperCube I would be more sub than you will ever need. You would never be able to turn the volume all the way up without breaking something of value in your home. Let the poets write about that there my friend!

Trt im not talking about the SUPERCUBE I , im talking about the SuperCube III

lol it will be too powerfull? but its not a quality subwoofer? its just from the research it says that the supercube is really smooth and provides cleaner and smoother bass than the SubPro, is the supercube worth the extra money over the ProSub? im not sure how much i can buy the Supercube iii for yet but ill find out tommorow.

say for $600, thats the best sub i can get for that price? i dont want to buy any eD subwoofer( i cant afford to wait a month) or any used subwoofer.

so say for $600 , would you say that the SuperCube III would be the best choice or the ProSub 1000 would be the better way to go and will be enough?

Trt im not talking about the SUPERCUBE I , im talking about the SuperCube III

lol it will be too powerfull? but its not a quality subwoofer? its just from the research it says that the supercube is really smooth and provides cleaner and smoother bass than the SubPro, is the supercube worth the extra money over the ProSub? im not sure how much i can buy the Supercube iii for yet but ill find out tommorow.

say for $600, thats the best sub i can get for that price? i dont want to buy any eD subwoofer( i cant afford to wait a month) or any used subwoofer.

so say for $600 , would you say that the SuperCube III would be the best choice or the ProSub 1000 would be the better way to go and will be enough?How big is the room?

its

Length:21 ft
Width: 12 ft
Hight: 8 1/2 ft

you can see pictures of the living room on page 2 of this thread. but remember , its NOT a closed room , if you see the pictures u will see, the living room has an opening and its connected to the whole apartment , sound from the living room is not heared only in the living room, its heared all over the apartment because its all opened up( the kitchen has no door also) just the bedrooms and the bathroom have doors.

i mean im reading reviews on the SuperCube III and people are amazed but the guys here on avs are telling me that sub is "crap". its quiete shocking.. it seems to be one of the top of the line subs at this time out there

Well now I get everyones elses frustration with you. If you just wanted a DT, why didn't you say so 100 posts back. Would have saved a lot of typing. Get the dang DT and be done with it. You still won't get the best deal for your money. I'm out.

Trt im not talking about the SUPERCUBE I , im talking about the SuperCube III

lol it will be too powerfull? but its not a quality subwoofer? its just from the research it says that the supercube is really smooth and provides cleaner and smoother bass than the SubPro, is the supercube worth the extra money over the ProSub? im not sure how much i can buy the Supercube iii for yet but ill find out tommorow.

say for $600, thats the best sub i can get for that price? i dont want to buy any eD subwoofer( i cant afford to wait a month) or any used subwoofer.

so say for $600 , would you say that the SuperCube III would be the best choice or the ProSub 1000 would be the better way to go and will be enough?If the square footage is under 150, the III would be a great sub. Rooms larger than 150 square feet will require a I or a reference for optimum performance.

Well now I get everyones elses frustration with you. If you just wanted a DT, why didn't you say so 100 posts back. Would have saved a lot of typing. Get the dang DT and be done with it. You still won't get the best deal for your money. I'm out.


I was looking at the Klipsch too in the begining, but i cant afford to buy the eD cuz i cant wait a month as i just spoke to my family. i have to give my onkyo sub to my dad since he recently moved so i have to get a sub in the next few days.

I was asking what was the best sub for around 500 plus or minus.. ill be ordering it online


TRT, no its not that big, as you can see in the pictures ;) but can you tell me please , is the supercube III much better than the ProSub 1000? i mean is it worth the extra $?

Well now I get everyones elses frustration with you. If you just wanted a DT, why didn't you say so 100 posts back. Would have saved a lot of typing. Get the dang DT and be done with it. You still won't get the best deal for your money. I'm out.You will never get a great deal on anything if money is the top priority. Always find the best product within your price range, then bargin for the best price.

I was looking at the Klipsch too in the begining, but i cant afford to buy the eD cuz i cant wait a month as i just spoke to my family. i have to give my onkyo sub to my dad since he recently moved so i have to get a sub in the next few days.


People were giving you suggestions of the Internet Direct brands because they are the best bang for your buck (at least at your budget), and that's what you seemed to be asking more about.

If having it NOW is the priority, as it seems to be, I guess the Def Tech would be the one to get. At least the brand name will match your speakers.

i might be able to get the supercube III for 550, ill see tommorow, but its a great sub right? Im looking into the future like i said previously and if i move to a bigger space i want to keep the same sub and not have to buy a new one, and i also want a quality sub. i mean i keep reading PEOPLE's reviews on websites (ill check some pro reviews also in a few) and people are amazed by the Supercube iii


Besides, if the Supercube will be too loud it has a volume control on it if im not wrong right? just like the ProSub 1000

TRT, the supercube III is indeed better than the SubPro 1000 right? would you said that its worth the extra money? id invest and get the supercube III then , id rather buy a great sub now than a different sub and then regret.

I was looking at the Klipsch too in the begining, but i cant afford to buy the eD cuz i cant wait a month as i just spoke to my family. i have to give my onkyo sub to my dad since he recently moved so i have to get a sub in the next few days.

I was asking what was the best sub for around 500 plus or minus.. ill be ordering it online


TRT, no its not that big, as you can see in the pictures ;) but can you tell me please , is the supercube III much better than the ProSub 1000? i mean is it worth the extra $?Sorry, but I was looking at the pics of your living room. Yes, the SuperCube III would be plenty for that room and yes it is worth the extra money.

Place the sub about halfway in the room on the sidewall. This sub has a direct radiating front driver and two side passive drivers. Placement is critical in order to avoid vibration problems. I've played with these quite alot and have found that if you place the sub to the side of the main listenning position, it works better in a room like yours.

Alright man sounds good. i mean it has the volume control so i dont need to worry about it being too loud, right?

And for future investment it will still be great for a bigger space etc. yea?

everywhere i asked they recommand the SuperCube as one of the top of the line subs they just tell you that it costs alot and for the retail price it does indeed cost alot($699)

it produces bass that you FEEL yea TRT?

Ill find out tommorow and if i can get this puppy for around 550 shipped ill pull the trigger.

[QUOTE=lamonsasa;14705267]
everywhere i asked they recommend the SuperCube as one of the top of the line subs they just tell you that it costs alot and for the retail price it does indeed cost alot($699)[QUOTE]

Everywhere but here, I guess. After all, we really don't know what we are talking about. You are now going with a 7.5" sub that the manufacturer falsely claims 16Hz (exaggeration at best), that a respected professional reviewer measures only to 40Hz. Good luck with that.

Place the sub about halfway in the room on the sidewall. This sub has a direct radiating front driver and two side passive drivers. Placement is critical in order to avoid vibration problems. I've played with these quite alot and have found that if you place the sub to the side of the main listenning position, it works better in a room like yours.


we are gonna have a paint job done in the living room and in all of the apartment actually and we are going to re arrange the living room, where do you think would be the best place to put the SuperCube iii at?

i didnt really understand what you ment by "halfway in the room on the sidewall" ,

Plus you gotta know what kinda bass you want to feel and how much your willing to spend. Their is bass you feel in your chest, bass that some people describe as room shaking,pants flapping bass, feel it in your gut bass. But then again most people don't have the mains that can match their sub output wise in the mid bass so that chest kick like most people have experienced at concerts wont be achieved. Find someone local to you to show you Different types of bass. Some people have it all. Some choose Low bass with reduced headroom in the mid bass frequencies. With a small budget your going to have to comprise appearance, low bass response, Headroom, flat response. Its about what comprise you feel is worth it. But you should have some experience with different types of bass to see what you really want.

yeah you want the best for your $$ with a $500 budget. But your gonna buy a $699? + sub which was proven not to reach the specs that it claim because you read reviews by who where? There's far better than that and ppl have already told you. With $699 I'd get an Epik Knight.But just get the Supercube 3 so I can stayout of your post. I try to but can't help it. You won't understand till later maybe. PPl are just trying to save you $$ but it doesn't matter really.

People were pushing you to buy a really good sub for the money @$315. Now you have close to $600 budget, and it just keeps going up.:D a few hundred dollars more and you can get some serious subs for you cash.:D

[quote=lamonsasa;14705267]
everywhere i asked they recommend the SuperCube as one of the top of the line subs they just tell you that it costs alot and for the retail price it does indeed cost alot($699)[quote]

Everywhere but here, I guess. After all, we really don't know what we are talking about. You are now going with a 7.5" sub that the manufacturer falsely claims 16Hz (exaggeration at best), that a respected professional reviewer measures only to 40Hz. Good luck with that.So what if it doesnt go to 16hz, if the same test were done on the the A2 300 , i doubt it would end up on what the company claims too. :D

Again, i never said i go by what the company said , im reading custumer reviews and i even know someone in real life that has that sub and he loves it.

and its a 7.5" sub but it seems to beat many of the bigger competitors without breaking a sweat..

I just went through frank Nousaine's test. :eek: And the super cube III spec is 44-110Hz +/-2.3dB. That is too much money for a response like that.

and no, im not paying $699, not at all.. im gonna get a much better price than that.

i even asked people that do home theather installations and they never heared of a company called eDesigns, i showed them their website and they said it looks good but still doesnt matter as i cant wait a month for them to build my sub as like i said i have to give my subwoofer to my dad.


So you say for 550 you can find a better sub that i can order online with my credit ard and BRAND NEW(i dont want to buy locally.. ) that will outperform the supercube iii,

for example which sub?

lamonsasa, You have to remember that this forum is composed of members that do most of the home theater and listenning room modifications themselves and are brochure and benchmark junkies. Also, the most critical of the posters don't own the pieces of equipment they are ragging on. You must listen and see gear yourself. A post about picture quality of a flat screen TV might be from someone who is ten years removed from their last eye exam. A member who hates the sound of a certain pair of speakers may be a sixty year old aircraft mechanic that works five days a week at a busy airport and has lost 35% of their hearing. Grain of salt! Take subjective opinions with a grain of salt. If the SuperCube III is what you want, buy it.

we are gonna have a paint job done in the living room and in all of the apartment actually and we are going to re arrange the living room, where do you think would be the best place to put the SuperCube iii at?

i didnt really understand what you ment by "halfway in the room on the sidewall" ,
To the left or right of the primary sitting position.

yea i know, i was just trying to see opinions, but from the research i done the supercube iii is like top of the line quality subs and im reading actual customer's reviews, people who bought the product and come to a website to post their expirience, i cant find one person that regretted getting the cube, and they are all amazed by the bass.

Like i said, you said there are much better subs than the cube iii for $550, like which ones? remember brand new only and ill have to be able to order it online with my credit card.

[QUOTE=lamonsasa;14705267]
everywhere i asked they recommend the SuperCube as one of the top of the line subs they just tell you that it costs alot and for the retail price it does indeed cost alot($699)[QUOTE]

Everywhere but here, I guess. After all, we really don't know what we are talking about. You are now going with a 7.5" sub that the manufacturer falsely claims 16Hz (exaggeration at best), that a respected professional reviewer measures only to 40Hz. Good luck with that.

Zing! Man, that was a no-holds-barred yet accurate depiction of the Supercube III. Well said, though!

BTW lamonsasa, we aren't saying the Supercube III is CRAP. It isn't. It has good sound quality. Unfortunately, as ransac just said, it uses a tiny 7.5" woofer (and a couple of passive radiators) that just can't deliver all that much output. IMO the Supercube III is a good, viable option if you have a small room and space is at a premium. Considering its size, the Supercube III is a good performer, but it just can't offer the kind of output required for dynamic home theater IMO. Physics are physics, and a single tiny driver, a couple of small passive radiators, a decently powerful amp, and a tiny enclosure simply can't deliver the impact a larger sub can.

Also as other have said, some manufacturers (Def Tech in particular) list very optimistic frequency responses for their products. Most manufacturers list a +/- 3dB FR that, while not revealing the whole picture does give a good idea as to the sub's capabilities. Def Tech lists the bottom end as the lowest possible frequency the sub can reproduce, regardless of whether it's at a high enough output level to be of any use (and don't for a second believe that the Supercube III has any usable output below about 30hz).

Looking at Tom Nousaine's list a little more closely, the Supercube III averages a respectable 98dB max SPL from 25-62hz. However, most of this is in the upper part of that range. At 25hz, the Supercube III managed 82dB of output. Every 10dB increase is approximately twice as loud in terms of how we perceive sound. So at 25hz (which is pretty deep), the Supercube III is 18db in output than the average from 25-62hz. This means that you'll be getting almost none of the ultra deep, "feel it" bass in movies. You'll get lots of punchy 40hz and up bass, but none of the really deep stuff. Granted Tom Nousaine's tests are in a large room, but compare it to another $600 sub - the internet direct SVS PB12-NSD. The PB12-NSD had 102dB of output at 25hz. Keep in mind that doubling the number of identical subs next to each other gives an increase of 6dB SPL. According to Nousaine's measurements, It would take 16 Supercube III subs to equal the PB12-NSD at 25hz. Obviously 16 Supercube III's would be far louder than the PB12-NSD at higher frequencies, but maybe this gives a better idea of how little deep bass the Supercube III will really have.

Again, I'm not saying the Supercube III is a terrible sub but I'd just ask you to reconsider before you purchase it - especially if it's for home theater. The Supercube I and Supercube Reference are MUCH better performers, due to their larger drivers/enclosures/passive radiators. The Supercube I averaged 5dB more output than the Supercube III from 25-62hz, which is very substantial increase. Keep in mind that size does matter in the subwoofer world. Good luck with your decision!

and no, im not paying $699, not at all.. im gonna get a much better price than that.

i even asked people that do home theather installations and they never heared of a company called eDesigns, i showed them their website and they said it looks good but still doesnt matter as i cant wait a month for them to build my sub as like i said i have to give my subwoofer to my dad.


So you say for 550 you can find a better sub that i can order online with my credit ard and BRAND NEW(i dont want to buy locally.. ) that will outperform the supercube iii,

for example which sub?

If you can stand to wait a few days, order any of these subs - they'll be far superior in deep bass compared to the Supercube III, have just as much output in the 50hz and up range, and they'll usually ship within a day or two of order:

Hsu VTF-2 MK3 ($549 + $59 shipping)
http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($499 + ~$60 shipping)
http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

SVS PB10-NSD ($429 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

SVS 25-31 PCi ($549 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow3.cfm

I think you'll have any of those subs within 7-10 days of your order at the latest.


I realize I have probably opened a whole new can of worms by giving multiple options. Who knows - this thread might set a new post count record trying to sort through these options ;). Still, I don't think you can lose with any of these subs.

3db will get you a doubling of volume.

Lamonsasa if you're in Los Angeles, give Hsu Research a call. They're in Anaheim and will do demos. I think you'll enjoy the demo and you can buy the sub with a credit card.

lamonsasa, You have to remember that this forum is composed of members that do most of the home theater and listenning room modifications themselves and are brochure and benchmark junkies. Also, the most critical of the posters don't own the pieces of equipment they are ragging on. You must listen and see gear yourself. A post about picture quality of a flat screen TV might be from someone who is ten years removed from their last eye exam. A member who hates the sound of a certain pair of speakers may be a sixty year old aircraft mechanic that works five days a week at a busy airport and has lost 35% of their hearing. Grain of salt! Take subjective opinions with a grain of salt. If the SuperCube III is what you want, buy it.

After everything I've said, I do agree with TRT to an extent. Many of us here are very picky and have higher expectations than the general public when it comes to HT gear. The subwoofers most of us use are high performance, bang-for-your-buck subs. The Supercube series is by no means a bad subwoofer line, but it won't get you the most performance for your dollar. That said, if you really like the sound quality and capabilities of the Supercube III after hearing it, go for it. Sometimes ignorance is bliss - not to mention cheaper in the long run!! :);)

3db will get you a doubling of volume.

Lamonsasa if you're in Los Angeles, give Hsu Research a call. They're in Anaheim and will do demos. I think you'll enjoy the demo and you can buy the sub with a credit card.
:eek:WTF lol your a lil off.:D 3bd requires a doubling of watts. So if your using 100 watts to go up 3db you need 200. Stacking a subwoofer and level matching them gives a increase of 6db. Placing a 2 subwoofers in a room at different locations give about a 3db increase. Most people think 10db is a doubling of perceived volume in my experience. Anybody correct me if im wrong. lol
BUt your 100% right about the demos.:D

3db will get you a doubling of volume.

Lamonsasa if you're in Los Angeles, give Hsu Research a call. They're in Anaheim and will do demos. I think you'll enjoy the demo and you can buy the sub with a credit card.

A 3dB increase requires twice the power.

A 6dB increase is achieved adding a second of the same subwoofer with identical power. This is twice the acoustic output (double the power + double the driver area, assuming everything else is equal)

A 10dB increase is generally regarded as a perceived "doubling" in loudness.
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/

A 3dB increase requires twice the power.
A 6dB increase is achieved adding a second of the same subwoofer with identical power.
A 10dB increase is generally regarded as a perceived "doubling" in loudness.
http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/
Lol just what I thought. :D

:eek:WTF lol your a lil off.:D 3bd requires a doubling of watts. So if your using 100 watts to go up 3db you need 200. Stacking a subwoofer and level matching them gives a increase of 6db. Placing a 2 subwoofers in a room at different locations give about a 3db increase. Most people think 10db is a doubling of perceived volume in my experience. Anybody correct me if im wrong. lol
BUt your 100% right about the demos.:D

Sounds like you're just about right :)

Listen up people! It is a living room in an apartment! How loud do you think this sub has to be? How low with a +/-db SPL output do you think this sub has to put out before his landlord boots him and his family into the streets. You guys are trying to get him to buy a sub that can rock a band shell in central park. It's a 1200 cubic foot living room in a apartment complex for Pete's sake!

Hey lol he say he wanted bass he could feel.:D I live in a apartment above my manager have mains with 12's surrounds with 12's a hsu 3.3 turbo and mbm-12 soon to have 3 more mbm-12 and a 1 more 3.3. Watch everything at reference. in fact its 10:43 right now and the movie is at reference lol. American gangster.:cool:

Listen up people! It is a living room in an apartment! How loud do you think this sub has to be? How low with a +/-db SPL output do you think this sub has to put out before his landlord boots him and his family into the streets. You guys are trying to get him to buy a sub that can rock a band shell in central park. It's a 1200 cubic foot living room in a apartment complex for Pete's sake!

Good point about him living in an apartment. I think living in an apartment, he should make sure the neighbors don't mind ANY subwoofer. If the neighbors are picky, even the Supercube III could be annoying to them. However, since he wants a sub that has the capability of producing bass he can feel he should at least get one that can meet this criterion if he so desires. Also, the OP mentioned that he wanted a sub that would still be sufficient if he moves into a larger house. The Outlaw/Hsu/SVS subs I referenced should do just that.

Hey lol he say he wanted bass he could feel.:D I live in a apartment above my manager have mains with 12's surrounds with 12's a hsu 3.3 turbo and mbm-12 soon to have 3 more mbm-12 and a 1 more 3.3. Watch everything at reference. in fact its 10:43 right now and the movie is at reference lol. American gangster.:cool:

I have to admit that is certainly the exception to the rule...

Im sure there are other people with a bass addiction in apartments here on avs. I just cant remember who. I think there is someone on here with a huge number of subs in a apartment.:D

lamonsasa, You have to remember that this forum is composed of members that do most of the home theater and listenning room modifications themselves and are brochure and benchmark junkies. Also, the most critical of the posters don't own the pieces of equipment they are ragging on. You must listen and see gear yourself. A post about picture quality of a flat screen TV might be from someone who is ten years removed from their last eye exam. A member who hates the sound of a certain pair of speakers may be a sixty year old aircraft mechanic that works five days a week at a busy airport and has lost 35% of their hearing. Grain of salt! Take subjective opinions with a grain of salt. If the SuperCube III is what you want, buy it.Does any of this describe you?

Listen up people! It is a living room in an apartment! How loud do you think this sub has to be? How low with a +/-db SPL output do you think this sub has to put out before his landlord boots him and his family into the streets. You guys are trying to get him to buy a sub that can rock a band shell in central park. It's a 1200 cubic foot living room in a apartment complex for Pete's sake!He also said he wanted a sub that can handle a larger room for when he moves.

How bout a College student who loves clean flat loud bass. I still have good hearing. :eek: Don't watch movies or blast my stuff all day though. Everything is turned down by 11pm. Ive heard many subs but couldn't bring them all to my place to test it out in my room. Only subs I havent heard are the mfw-15's, svs's line, and the epik subs. Even though I have subs already,I find it very interesting to hear other things and see how they compare. Its also interesting to see other people impressions and problems.

Like i said, you said there are much better subs than the cube iii for $550, like which ones? remember brand new only and ill have to be able to order it online with my credit card.Little more than $550 delivered, but here is one right here.

Hsu VTF-2 MK3 ($549 + $59 shipping)
http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html
And there are many very satisfied customers. Plus it will handle a larger room than you have now. The SC3 will not give any tactile sound in your room or even smaller unless you are sitting on it.

I can not believe this thread has gone on for 5 pages. Multiple people have recommended the eD A2-300 but still you seem to find a reason not to purchase it and throw a different sub in the mix. The best bang for your buck is the A2-300 but yet it seems like it isn't even something you don't want to consider. Sure there is going to be a wait but 2-3 weeks isn't that bad honestly for what you are getting.

This is one of the funniest threads I have read in a while. Just buy the supercube. Heck, I would buy a couple of them if I were you.

is this a joke?

Bose Acoustimass



Tim

Well yea im in an apartment, my neigboors downstairs are not really picky. i been watching movie for a long time with my Onkyo subwoofer and it got pretty loud but they didnt say a thing... im sure if i raised a little more it might have happened but you know..

Anyawy all these SVS and HSU subwoofers are marked for "LARGE ROOMS" as clearly stated on their websites, when i said i might be moving to a larger room IF at all, it will most likely be a closed room unlike the room i have now which is opened up and connect to the whole apartment..

The supercube III according to everyone i asked is better than the ProSub 1000.. would you agree with that? and customers who bought the sub say that it moves walls pictctures and if it does that then it makes you feel the action tho id guess..

heres an example on why that HSU sub or the SVS sub is not good for me at all, on the HSU VTF-2 website it says "Loudness Level: 3 "LARGER ROOMS" "

So i checked what they mean by "larger rooms on their website and its like this:

Large room: 30x15x10 (much bigger than my room)

Small room is: 15x10x10 (smaller than my room)

Medium room is: 20x15x10 (closest to my room measurments)


my room is :

Length:21 ft
Width: 12 ft
Hight: 8 1/2 ft

but its an OPEN room, no doors making it a closed room..

I think the HSU or the SVS subs will be over the top specially for someone like me in an apartment, if i were in a house i would have probably pulled the trigger on one of these PHYSICALLY bigger subs to rock the house.


One question, the SuperCube III is better than the ProSub 1000 right? and should be miles better than my HTIB ONKYO Sub right?

so you don't want to get a HSU or SVS sub because you think it'll be too much for you? I rather have too much instead if too little. With bass you can never have too much, but you can definitely have too little. If you think its too much, all you have to do is lower the gain on your sub.

Since your room is open to other parts of your apartment you have to consider the other rooms dimensions. My living room is opened to my dining room, kitchen, and has a cathedral ceiling to my bedroom. I had a philips HTiB sub an it did nothing in that room. I moved that system to my bedroom and it sounds a lot better. If you or anyone else wants a sub demo with an A2-300 let me know. Well anyone that lives around St. Louis :) I'll be more than happy to demonstrate the capabilities of the sub in my open layout.

Best thing to do, and I believe its already been said, is to TRY the sub in your room. If you dont like it, return it. Simple as that.

well the supercube iii is 600watt , how can that be "too little? "

There is a gain control on subs that let you adjust the "loudness" .If calibrated to your other gear none of the subs listed would be too much. IMO, it is better to have too much headroom than too little.

I dont think he was referring to the amp as being too little. The driver is only 7.5". That thing is just not going to move alot of air. I wouldnt even call a 7.5" driver a subwoofer.

It's not the amp power that is "too little", it's the 7.5" driver that is tiny. All they're saying is that you will get little to no "oomph" under 35 to 40hz with that sub. It will probably do well from 40 to 50hz up and sound pretty decent for music and some HT passages, but that is about it.

A friend of mine lives in a condo and bought a Mirage S-8 (8" ported woofer). While admirable, you really can't even tell the sub is on while watching movies with anything below 40hz. Outside of some very nasty distortion sounds that is if the gain control is set too high outside of the subs limits, which sound gawd awful.

You can get any of the above mentioned subs (HSU, SVS, etc) and turn down the gain/volume control on the sub to make sure you're not disturbing your neighbours. If you do want more bass or move to a larger room, you can turn it up. The SuperCube III will hit its limits very quickly in that room, and you won't have the ability to "turn up the gain" without extreme distortion setting in. It would likely be great for most "music" applications that have not a lot of content below 40hz (I assume you're not into organ music for instance). But if you're expecting to pop in War of the Worlds, Transformers, or any good HT sound flick to impress your friends, you will be missing a large part of what makes these movies great "bass-wise".

You can never really have too much sub (aside from a sub that is maybe "too large" physically for a given space) as you can adjust the gain control to your liking, you can easily have "too little sub" though.

I give up. Have fun everyone :rolleyes:

Yeah, lamonsasa, get the Supercube III and be done. You've been repeating the same questions over and over despite getting answers that your money might be spent better elsewhere. It's clear you want that sub and want us to say it's okay to get it.

IT'S OKAY TO GET IT!

If youre in the 500-600 price why not the Epik Knight or Caliber. Agreed to other comments made by members here. Allot of great suggestions but nothing purchased yet. ED, Epik, SVS, HSU are all killer subs and will produce enough bass to beat your clothes off. Just buy one.........I own dual SVS PB12/Plus 2s and in my sealed room 14x22 they're insane. Point is, lots of great suggestions/recommendations. If you cant wait for the ED, then go Epik or SVS. I personally dont think the Def Tech can touch them. Just my opinion. Good luck to the OP.

Yeah, lamonsasa, get the Supercube III and be done. You've been repeating the same questions over and over despite getting answers that your money might be spent better elsewhere. It's clear you want that sub and want us to say it's okay to get it.

IT'S OKAY TO GET IT!

Yup I agree but I've hear the Supercube 3 many times.7 1/2 beats what competition says who? ppl who buy ID brand and the are many post there spl on there subs. They usually get what the claim. Supercube isn't close. Have fun with you sub. It's probally okay for music in an apartment.
See ya later when you come back when you want another :eek:

If youre in the 500-600 price why not the Epik Knight or Caliber. Agreed to other comments made by members here. Allot of great suggestions but nothing purchased yet. ED, Epik, SVS, HSU are all killer subs and will produce enough bass to beat your clothes off. Just buy one.........I own dual SVS PB12/Plus 2s and in my sealed room 14x22 they're insane. Point is, lots of great suggestions/recommendations. If you cant wait for the ED, then go Epik or SVS. I personally dont think the Def Tech can touch them. Just my opinion. Good luck to the OP.

Epik has a wait as well, and the OP has been quite firm on the fact that his upper price limit (including shipping) is $400 so no Epik or SVS subwoofer would be available to lemonsasa.

I give up. Have fun everyone :rolleyes:

Me too.

well the supercube iii is 600watt , how can that be "too little? "I notice on the DT site that they don't specify if this is 600 Watts RMS or peak. I would bet it is peak, which means it cannot sustain 600 Watts without going into thermal overload. This type of published power rating as well as the low end frequency response rating, that hasn't proven to be measurable, is why people here rag on DT. This is deceptive advertising.

I also looked at the customer testimonials and pro reviews on the DT web site and not one of them is about the SC3. The one that says pictures literally fall off the walls, bunk. He must have them hung with Scotch Tape.

I guess I am put off by the DTs because I demoed the entire SC line (sans the Trinity as it wasn't out yet) twice, and was very underwhelmed by them.

^+1 he said it all right there

End of discussion guys, i ordered the supercube 3 for $580 brand new shipped and no tax to my door.


Thanks for everyone that helped.

;) Im sure these SVS subs and what not are good too but oh well, their looks are a turnoff and nearly everyone i asked said the supercube III is awesome.

I can even return it if i dont like it but its highly unlikely :)

End of discussion guys, i ordered the supercube 3 for $580 brand new shipped and no tax to my door.


Thanks for everyone that helped.

;) Im sure these SVS subs and what not are good too but oh well, their looks are a turnoff and nearly everyone i asked said the supercube III is awesome.

I can even return it if i don't like it but its highly unlikely :)I get this feeling you will soon miss your HTIB sub. Are you sure they said awesome or did they say awful.

Ah, the shiny black box syndrome. The finish will really enhance the performance.:rolleyes:

For a little more, you could have had an Epik Valor. Too bad.

Where do you live? When you get the SC3, maybe you can find someone in your area with one of the other ID subs mentioned and do a little comparison.

He lives in New York City, so there should be no shortage of people around with them.

Unless he badgers them with the same questions over and over. ;)

Posted 9/19/08 at 2:07PM
were you actually looking for people's suggestions or just looking for a couple random people on the Internet to say you were making the right choice? Seems like your mind may have already been made up?



Posted 9/21/08 at 11:58AM
End of discussion guys, i ordered the supercube 3 for $580 brand new shipped and no tax to my door.


:D

I get this feeling you will soon miss your HTIB sub. Are you sure they said awesome or did they say awful.

Ah, the shiny black box syndrome. The finish will really enhance the performance.:rolleyes:

For a little more, you could have had an Epik Valor. Too bad.

Well, if nothing else, the guy sure sticks to his guns. We had an entire forum trying to persuade him to buy something else...ANYTHING else...yet he stuck with what he wanted to get!

Now the only question is...why did he come here to ask us our opinions if he'd already made up his mind? My guess is there's a guy in an apartment in NYC laughing his ass off at how seriously we took his little prank :rolleyes:

BTW, enjoy the sub lamonsasa :)

Wow, this thread had to go 6 pages so that people could recommend many different quality subs so thatin the end a sub that no one even listed as an option or liked would be bought, hmmm. Like someone posted before you just wanted the justification of the subs you wanted not alternative sub options you were given. You had already made up your mind.

For @ the same he could have a sealed 15" driver ...it's shiny also
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06130.jpg
Obvious the ppl he asked about ID brands have never heard them. I've heard the Supercube that Valor will eat it for breakfast.

I think the thread took off because everyone was so annoyed by the end of it because they would throw out option after option of subs he should take a look at, but yet he would come back asking questions about some totally different sub that no one even listed. Also some how a max of $400 that was in the guide lines went up quite a few dollars to $580.

I get this feeling you will soon miss your HTIB sub. Are you sure they said awesome or did they say awful.

Ah, the shiny black box syndrome. The finish will really enhance the performance.:rolleyes:

For a little more, you could have had an Epik Valor. Too bad.


why will i miss the htib sub lol, and i see you really enjoy letting people feel bad about their purchases, i never in my life heared of a comapny called Epik Valor for petes sakes and none of my friends have heared of that company either and they know alot about technology. you dont seem to be too open minded because obviously you keep saying the supercube iii is 7 inchs but obviously everyone who owns that sub is saying that they love the sub very much and that it produces wall moving bass.

For @ the same he could have a sealed 15" driver ...it's shiny also
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06130.jpg
Obvious the ppl he asked about ID brands have never heard them. I've heard the Supercube that Valor will eat it for breakfast.

why would i want that huge bulk in my apartment?

and some people recommanded me the supercube iii via email for your information so dont say no one recommanded me that sub.

why will i miss the htib sub lol, and i see you really enjoy letting people feel bad about their purchases, i never in my life heared of a comapny called Epik Valor for petes sakes and none of my friends have heared of that company either and they know alot about technology. you dont seem to be too open minded because obviously you keep saying the supercube iii is 7 inchs but obviously everyone who owns that sub is saying that they love the sub very much and that it produces wall moving bass.
You are post ing the biggest AVR BBoard on the net. In the subwoofer forums where ppl are obsessed with subs. Most ppl here have been through what you are and bought a crappy sub or 2 before figuring it out. You'll be back when you have actually heard a good sub. Ppl in the stores aren't going to help because they will lose sales. If the Super cube was better than the Valor or SVS I would simply have one or 3.:eek:

Type Bose into Google and alot of great reviews will appear also.

A 7.5" driver shouldnt be mentioned in the subwoofer section of this forum, IMO.

^+1 Exactly

What I find most disturbing is the fact that the OP has made his purchase and forum members are still trying to get him to buy something else. What's up with that?

What I find most disturbing is the fact that the OP has made his purchase and forum members are still trying to get him to buy something else. What's up with that?Worse....Forum members are trying to make the OP feel like **** because he didn't buy the particular sub that each individual recommended. What's up with THAT!

What's done is done. Might as well let him enjoy his new sub. It doesn't suck...it's just not anywhere near as good as what he could have purchased for that much money. But it should probably be a good deal better than his Onkyo sub. $600 better? Nope, but better nonetheless.

It's not the purchase it everyone he knows knows everything and it's the best buy. So why come here that's irritating. The ppl haven't even heard the subs mentioned. I have and so have many others. But best of luck it's a poor choice ime. he wanted the best for his $$ That's why

Its funny u know, how much better could the HSU or the SVS or that Knight sub can be more than the supercube iii, you know these subs have the appearence of subwoofers used in concerts for petes sake. i dont NEED that kind of a sub, that would tear my apartment apart, all i want is a good sounding sub with clean bass that will make movie watching and gaming sound great and that all.

But if you are spending that much money anyway, Why not get the performance?

Its funny u know, how much better could the HSU or the SVS or that Knight sub can be more than the supercube iii, you know these subs have the appearence of subwoofers used in concerts for petes sake. i dont NEED that kind of a sub, that would tear my apartment apart, all i want is a good sounding sub with clean bass that will make movie watching and gaming sound great and that all.
I don't recall you saying anything about size. The Klipish subs are big. You wanted the BEST you won't get that out of a tiny box. You would be better off buying a Velodyne VX10 for $160 for you apt. That will sound clean and good for movies for a much better price. The Super cube could never equal a Knight. @ 40hrz you could have 10 cubes and it would never go as low. Probably louder but that's what you have speakers for

Worse....Forum members are trying to make the OP feel like **** because he didn't buy the particular sub that each individual recommended. What's up with THAT!Because we tried to stay in his budget and meet his requirements. The sub he bought, contrary to everything everybody, except you, told him to get, does not meet his requirements. I, for one, don't just make ad hoc recommendations. I spent my time doing some of the research the OP should have done himself. Including trying to find any validation of the performance of the SC3. If you had bothered to read the rest of he thread, you would know what I am talking about.

I don't believe you can actually say, with a straight face, that you lead him to the best purchase for his money, his environment, or his stated goals. If you really believe the SC3 will provide great HT performance, then you need to do more research.

He asked over and over and over again if the SC3 was a quality sub. It may be, but it is not an adequate sub for his OPEN floor plan. Add to that, DTs misrepresentation of the subs capabilities and I will almost guarantee he will be disappointed. Though I doubt he will come back here and say that.

i have 30 days to return the sub if i dont like it, and if i return it i wont have to pay for the shiping back nor anything, easy as that but i gave a call to many online sellers (like u say, are much better than best buy and what not .. )

and everyone says the Supercube iii is phenominal, i told them that you guys are tell me its crap and they said that "they are probably underestimating the sub for its size" and that you need to listen to it to believe it. but no even at best buy, in the magnolia room, i asked whats the best u have here, he said the subpro 1000, the super cube III/II/I and some Martin Logan sub which i dont remember the model of.


Again you dont understand one thing, that Knight subwoofer that you recommand , whats so better about it than the supercube iii for such an apartment like mine? trust me if i was living in a house i would be looking for some monster subwoofer which i can crank up that will send chills to my chest but in the apartment ill have to lower the volume quiete a bit.

End of discussion guys, i ordered the supercube 3 for $580 brand new shipped and no tax to my door.


Thanks for everyone that helped.

;) Im sure these SVS subs and what not are good too but oh well, their looks are a turnoff and nearly everyone i asked said the supercube III is awesome.

I can even return it if i dont like it but its highly unlikely :)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! My $200 BIC H100 has better response than 44Hz-110Hz! I also think its funny that He didnt order the A2-300 because if he's ordered it at the beginning of this thread he would have already had it by now! ROFLMFAO

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! My $200 BIC H100 has better response than 44Hz-110Hz! I also think its funny that He didnt order the A2-300 because if he's ordered it at the beginning of this thread he would have already had it by now! ROFLMFAO

wow, what a newbie, nice post bud. Im buy a high quality product, unlike your crap BIC sub :D thats for sure..

I don't care about looks nor size.
Your words. Now you criticize the appearance and size of subs based on web photos.

And in the future I might buy a house and I want to buy a sub now that will cover me for a while.The SC3 isn't big enough for your current apartment. It will be even less capable in a house.

I'm looking into the future, if , you never know.. ill move to a house or a bigger apartment, and maybe the room will be big, will the eD sub be still good and powerful in that case or ill need a more "powerful" sub for that?Your words again.

I'm just trying to get a sub that will produce nice, clean and not "boomy" bass that makes you feel the action.
You will not FEEL the action with a 7" sub. Even if you put 2000 watts to it.
i want to get one sub that will be awesome and that will last me for a long time that will go low and provide me with good bass, thats all i wantForget the go low part.

i mean I'm reading reviews on the SuperCube III and people are amazed but the guys here on avs are telling me that sub is "crap". its quite shocking.. it seems to be one of the top of the line subs at this time out thereNobody said it was crap. Nobody. It just isn't what YOU said you were looking for. You are also confusing the upper end SuperCubes (Ref and Trinity) with the III.

And for future investment it will still be great for a bigger space etc. yea?

it produces bass that you FEEL yea TRT?

No and no.

why will i miss the htib sub lol, and i see you really enjoy letting people feel bad about their purchases, i never in my life heard of a company called Epik Valor for Pete's sakes and none of my friends have heard of that company either and they know alot about technology. you don't seem to be too open minded because obviously you keep saying the supercube iii is 7 inches but obviously everyone who owns that sub is saying that they love the sub very much and that it produces wall moving bass.I also took your side when others were getting on you about your sliding requirements scale. You asked the same questions over and over and people answered them each time. I don't believe you bothered to read or understand the answers.

If I told you the name of the company I work for, you will not have heard of them. But they are THE top Supply Chain software company in the world. All you had to do was search on Epik and you would know of them.

A 7" sub may move walls in a closet.

Heck, my MAINS are bigger than 7.5", and I still run a sub.

wow, what a newbie, nice post bud. I'm buy a high quality product, unlike your crap BIC sub :D thats for sure..Now who's trying to make someone feel bad about their purchase? I would take the H-100 over the SC3 in a head-to-head challenge.

Ah well, enjoy the sub. Good thing is that coming from your HTiB it will at least be an improvement. Pop in War of the Worlds, the scene where the Pods emerge. Turn it up loud. Let us know what you think ...

Now who's trying to make someone feel bad about their purchase? I would take the H-100 over the SC3 in a head-to-head challenge.

I also paid less than half ;)

look from your replys your making me regret the purchase, i can still cancel the order but that EPIK KNIGHT sub is out of question because they say its $599 but i went ahead and pressed add to cart on their website and to my surprise shipping will cost me $100+ , i would ordered that sub instead of the SCiii if it really cost $599 but it doesnt which really pissed me off

So which subwoofer should i buy out of these:

Hsu VTF-2 MK3 ($549 + $59 shipping)
http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($499 + ~$60 shipping)
http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

SVS PB10-NSD ($429 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

SVS 25-31 PCi ($549 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow3.cfm

which one?

will these be MUCH better than the SCIIi?

wow, what a newbie, nice post bud. Im buy a high quality product, unlike your crap BIC sub :D thats for sure..
:eek: I hope your not serious.:o

look from your replys your making me regret the purchase, i can still cancel the order but that EPIK KNIGHT sub is out of question because they say its $599 but i went ahead and pressed add to cart on their website and to my surprise shipping will cost me $100+ , i would ordered that sub instead of the SCiii if it really cost $599 but it doesnt which really pissed me off

So which subwoofer should i buy out of these:

Hsu VTF-2 MK3 ($549 + $59 shipping)
http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($499 + ~$60 shipping)
http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

SVS PB10-NSD ($429 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

SVS 25-31 PCi ($549 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow3.cfm

which one?

will these be MUCH better than the SCIIi?
All of those will go lower and be louder than the III. The outlaw sub was designed by Dr.Hsu owner of Hsu research. Its has very good value and is a total of $559 with shipping. Those are all good choices. Member you said it yourself too that a sub cant be to much because you could lower the volume from the sub itself. :D

I think people were recommending Epik's entry sub, the Valor, which would be just over $600. But at any rate, the ones you listed would ship immediately.



which one?

will these be MUCH better than the SCIIi?

Any one of those would be great. They're pretty much on par with each other.

The SVS would give you two different form factors, and they'd all whump up on the Supercube III.

I would probably opt for the LFM-1 Plus as well (just think it looks better), I think it is the "kin" to the HSU VTF-2 MK3 in terms of performance. Either of those will do you well.

BTW, if you can return your SuperCube do try it in your apartment, then get any of the above and try those. You will see what we mean really quick and will be reaching to lower that gain control.

look from your replys your making me regret the purchase, i can still cancel the order but that EPIK KNIGHT sub is out of question because they say its $599 but i went ahead and pressed add to cart on their website and to my surprise shipping will cost me $100+ , i would ordered that sub instead of the SCiii if it really cost $599 but it doesnt which really pissed me off

So which subwoofer should i buy out of these:

Hsu VTF-2 MK3 ($549 + $59 shipping)
http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($499 + ~$60 shipping)
http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

SVS PB10-NSD ($429 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

SVS 25-31 PCi ($549 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow3.cfm

which one?

will these be MUCH better than the SCIIi?

I think you'd do well with the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. It probably strikes the best balance of output and extension for the price.

One more thing, though. The last thing I'd want to do have someone feel like they were "bullied" into a purchase. This forum should be a friendly place, and I apologize if I've said unkind things. The Def Tech will certainly be an improvement over your Onkyo sub. However, the LFM-1 Plus (or those other subs listed) will provide significantly better performance, and some of them will do it at a lower price.

look from your replys your making me regret the purchase, i can still cancel the order but that EPIK KNIGHT sub is out of question because they say its $599 but i went ahead and pressed add to cart on their website and to my surprise shipping will cost me $100+ , i would ordered that sub instead of the SCiii if it really cost $599 but it doesnt which really pissed me off

So which subwoofer should i buy out of these:

Hsu VTF-2 MK3 ($549 + $59 shipping)
http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html

Outlaw LFM-1 Plus ($499 + ~$60 shipping)
http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

SVS PB10-NSD ($429 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

SVS 25-31 PCi ($549 + ~$60 shipping)
https://svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pcpow3.cfm

which one?

will these be MUCH better than the SCIIi?Not trying to make you regret your choice, just trying to make you reconsider. If you can go a little higher in your budget (I wound up spending 3 times my original budget), then look at the Epik Valor. It has twice the diameter driver which is 4 times the surface area. This will make you feel the sound, when your neighbors allow you to. If this is too much money, get the HSU VTF2 Mk3 or the Outlaw. If you need to lower the total price, then go down to the 10" SVS PB10-NSD. Most people won't like the looks of the SVS cylinder subs, some do, like me, but most don't. With your increased budget, you can also look at the eD A3-300. Just email them and ask what the lead time is. It may be less than a month.

well you did make me regret my choice whether you intended or not and i was happy after i placed the order and i came here to post it and you guys one after one bashed me and made me feel uncomfortable.

Anyway, from the way i see this situation, ill wait and recieve my SuperCube 3, see how it performs, worst case scanerio if i dont like it ill pack everything up as it came and ship it back and i wont pay a restocking fee nor shipping fee as the package is less than 50lbs and they'll refund me once they recieve it.

well you did make me regret my choice whether you intended or not and i was happy after i placed the order and i came here to post it and you guys one after one bashed me and made me feel uncomfortable.

.

Well, we gave you honest opinions on what you asked about, but then you changed the requirements and kept asking about the Supercube even though we already gave you our assessment. It honestly did seem like you weren't interested in our actual opinions and just wanted someone, anyone, to back up a decision that you had already made. It got very frustrating.

I know you want to make the best choice for your budget, but you got to give us something to work with. As for those four, ANY of them would work fine. But if you try the Supercube and like it, keep it. You can always sell it later down the road. It's not like you have to throw it away.

well yea ill try it and if i dont like it ill just return it within the 30 days, but from the many people i asked they are all saying that the sub is phenominal and provides really nice sound.

But if i decide to return the SCIII i can not get the epic sub because they lie, they dont state that you have to pay for shiping THAT much, i mean wow, i dont want to go to their website again to check how much they want for the shiping but it was around $150 FEDEX GROUND shiping which is a ripoff i think so i defintley cant get the Epic subwoofer.


Im trying to look at the 4 mentioned subs and i dont think i can afford the SVS cylinder sub it would cost me about 610$ shipped, i dont know if they charge tax , besides that it looks kinda big and i know that my family will be like "ugh what did you buy" so i dont want cylinder type sub for sure.

I might be able to go for the VTF-2 MK 3 or the PB10-NSD, the outlaw sub is not for me, i hate the looks from the picture already and i dont want that subwoofer..

Between the VTF-2 MK 3 and the PB10-NSD, whats the better sub? and are these 2 subs much better than my Onkyo Sub or the supercube III?

And is there a big difference between the PB12-NSD and the PB10-NSD?

Between the VTF-2 MK 3 and the PB10-NSD, whats the better sub?

They're both comparable. According to the Craigsub rankings, the SVS was a bit better than the HSU on movies, but the HSU was about two bits better on music. I think you'd be happy with either.


and are these 2 subs much better than my Onkyo Sub or the supercube III?

What do you think the last, oh, six pages of this thread were about?


And is there a big difference between the PB12-NSD and the PB10-NSD?

About two inches on the driver, 25 watts on the amp, and $170 on the price.


I'm also not sure why the Outlaw looks bad but you're willing to consider the HSU. They're virtual twins.

The valor shipped to los angeles will cost $80. You got to remember that these subs are pretty big and heavy compared to the best buy subs.:D

well yea ill try it and if i dont like it ill just return it within the 30 days, but from the many people i asked they are all saying that the sub is phenominal and provides really nice sound.

But if i decide to return the SCIII i can not get the epic sub because they lie, they dont state that you have to pay for shiping THAT much, i mean wow, i dont want to go to their website again to check how much they want for the shiping but it was around $150 FEDEX GROUND shiping which is a ripoff i think so i defintley cant get the Epic subwoofer.


Im trying to look at the 4 mentioned subs and i dont think i can afford the SVS cylinder sub it would cost me about 610$ shipped, i dont know if they charge tax , besides that it looks kinda big and i know that my family will be like "ugh what did you buy" so i dont want cylinder type sub for sure.

I might be able to go for the VTF-2 MK 3 or the PB10-NSD, the outlaw sub is not for me, i hate the looks from the picture already and i dont want that subwoofer..

Between the VTF-2 MK 3 and the PB10-NSD, whats the better sub? and are these 2 subs much better than my Onkyo Sub or the supercube III?

And is there a big difference between the PB12-NSD and the PB10-NSD?

I can understand the frustration of shipping charges. However, the price of the sub really IS $599. Epik isn't making money off of the $150 shipping. That's all FedEx, buddy :). The sub is so large that they get hit with an oversize premium. So what WOULD cost around ~$90-100 gets creamed with the "really big item tax" and comes out to $150.

Don't worry, the Knight would be a really big sub to have in an apartment. The Outlaw, Hsu, or SVS subs would be more than enough as well. As for your question about the PB10-NSD and PB12-NSD, they sound similar with the PB12-NSD having an extra ~3-4dB of output across its usable frequency bandwidth.

I think your plan is a good one. Try out the Supercube III. It could end up blowing your mind with its output, or it could be disappointing. Decide for yourself and go from there. Best of luck.

[quote=ransac;14705448][quote=lamonsasa;14705267]
everywhere i asked they recommend the SuperCube as one of the top of the line subs they just tell you that it costs alot and for the retail price it does indeed cost alot($699)So what if it doesnt go to 16hz, if the same test were done on the the A2 300 , i doubt it would end up on what the company claims too. :D

Again, i never said i go by what the company said , im reading custumer reviews and i even know someone in real life that has that sub and he loves it.

and its a 7.5" sub but it seems to beat many of the bigger competitors without breaking a sweat..
a 7 1/2" sub beats what larger sub?
an 8", we need to be real here.
for $699 an epik knight would probably eat 2 of those 7 1/2" subs.
without breaking a sweat, did you make that up?
i didnt read your profile, but it seems like we are talking to a kid.

well you did make me regret my choice whether you intended or not and i was happy after i placed the order and i came here to post it and you guys one after one bashed me and made me feel uncomfortable.

Anyway, from the way i see this situation, ill wait and recieve my SuperCube 3, see how it performs, worst case scanerio if i dont like it ill pack everything up as it came and ship it back and i wont pay a restocking fee nor shipping fee as the package is less than 50lbs and they'll refund me once they recieve it.


Honestly?

You'll like it.
You've already made up your mind that its great and you're OBVIOUSLY not open to other things (like data and specifications).

Similar to those that "see" a difference with Monster cables, love Bose, etc. A true placebo-like effect.

Not that there's anything wrong with it, but really-

Do you guys really think there's a mindset here that's going to critically evaluate whatever comes through the door, much less have thoughts like "Wow, there's a real steep rolloff at 40Hz" or "Wow, what's up with this not so flat response"?

Not everyone's wired like that. My mother, for instance, prefers a big boomy sound.





Of course, she's not arguing with aficionado’s over whether it's "best".

Guys,

I'd like to motion to quit feeding the troll. Please no more posts in this thread. The OP has made up his mind and there is nothing can do or say to change it. We tried about 100x before he purchased. What makes you think things will change now?

Let him enjoy his new 7.5" speaker. I refuse to call that a subwoofer :D

its a 7 inch sub but they say it doesnt sound anywhere like a sub of that size so that because its using some kind of a technology by definitive technology.

Well warlord, people say the supercube iii beats the Def Tech 10 inch Subpro 1000 so ..

So yes i will check the supercube iii out, maybe it will totaly blow my mind like so many of its owners are, maybe i wont like it but im not sure , i'll see.

No but i dont want to buy the Knight just because the fact that you guys just described why the shipping costs so much it being that HUGE , that will be way to much for me.

I dont like the appearence of the outlaw at all and it also looks huuuge and i dont like that so im going to pass.

My options seem to be SVS 10" NSD which looks good to me and the HSU VTF-2 MK 3 is another one i like.


But is PB12-NSD (https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm) better than the PB10-NSD (https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm) ? i mean is it worth the extra money? and which sub will be better, the HSU VTF-2 MK3 or the SVS sub? the thing is tho that the HSU sub states that its for "LARGE ROOMS" on their website.

Are these 3 subs my best bets for the price?

I think he has me on ignore.

I WIN, I WIN! :D

why do u say i have u on ignore?

Because you're asking questions already answered.

A3plew and LaLakers were right. I had numbers wrong in my head.

This is a no win argument. Lamonsasa has no reference for what we're speaking about. It sounds like he's got a HTIB setup which the def tech should better and to his ears, he's made a great improvement. Could he has spent his $600 better? Probably, but he's fixated on appearance so actual performance is not an issue. He's chosen not to explore many of the models suggested because they are too big. If 7.5 inches of driver is good enough for Lamonsasa then enjoy your new sub.

i just made a post 3 posts above u saying my plan , you cant see it?

im going to still have the supercube iii shipped to me and ill see how it is..


"I dont like the appearence of the outlaw at all and it also looks toohuuuge and i dont like that so im going to pass.

My options seem to be SVS 10" NSD which looks good to me and the HSU VTF-2 MK 3 is another one i like.


But is PB12-NSD (https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm) better than the PB10-NSD (https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm) ? i mean is it worth the extra money? and which sub will be better, the HSU VTF-2 MK3 or the SVS sub? in general, which company is better?

the thing is tho that the HSU sub states that its for "LARGE ROOMS" on their website. and my room is not a large room

Are these 3 subs my best bet for the price?"

Haha all over again. FWIW Epik didn't lie. Most purchases you pay for shipping. Unless they say free shipping but they add that into the "hidden" cost. Nothings free. The Valors is a better sub than the PB10 but it cost more. Like ppl said you ordered the sub compare it with another. Worst case you may lose payment on shipping but it's worth knowing you bought the better sub. 7 1/2 woofer. My bookshelf center speaker has two 6.5" http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340c/cmt340c.html
Like you said you want a sub to keep when you move get the better sub. Just because it plays loud you don't need to play it. It will be cheaper when you move into a bigger place to buy what you want now instead of later.

I think JamesK8 is correct.

Lamonsasa,
Based on some the the wording you use in your questions, I will assume you have never heard a real subwoofer. Your reference is the HTIB you have now. If that stays your reference, then you will like the SC3. If you find a friend with a real subwoofer, and they are willing to give you a demo of what it can really do, then you will understand our/my criticism of the SC3. Until you actually get your own house, the SC3 will be good.

When you ask if any of the subs that have been recommended will be much better than the HTIB sub, the answer for any of them is, it will be better in so many ways and by such a huge amount that, until you actually put one to the test, you can't imagine.

ransac has it right.

Trying to describe the sound of a real subwoofer of the type generally discussed here, to someone who has never heard one, is like trying to describe colors to someone who has been blind since birth.



Tim

Alright guys, like i said ill audition my supercube iii for sure, if ill like it ill keep it , if not then oh well ill return it. (cant cancel the order now anyway, its being shiped tommorow morning and i ordered by phone so.. )

The only alternative that im seeing is the SVS PB10-NSD (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm) but i know that even if i buy that then you guys will say i still dont have a real subwoofer and how the Epik is soo much better or how the HSU is soo much better or even how the eD cheap A2 300 sub is so much better than my NSD.

from my research, the PB10 uses the same Technology that Klipsch is using, its called BASH, you probably know that already so id guess that it will sound similar to klipsch most likely if im not wrong

i was just recommanded this subwoofer from a personal friend of mine and he said that its truely an audiophile sub:

http://www.soundmindaudio.com/on-line-store/rel-t-3-subwoofer-cherry.html

he said that subwoofer will sound defintley better than the SVS PB10 and the HSU.

what do you guys think on that subwoofer? i cant find much feedback on it

Guys i was just recommanded this subwoofer from a friend of mine:

http://www.soundmindaudio.com/on-line-store/rel-t-3-subwoofer-cherry.html

he said that subwoofer will sound defintley better than the SVS PB10 and the HSU.

what do you guys think on that subwoofer?
Why? I don't mean this to sound offensive, but your actions and comments have already demonstrated that you don't care what people here think.


Tim

Why? I don't mean this to sound offensive, but your actions and comments have already demonstrated that you don't care what people here think.


Tim


Its just a recomanadtion he gave me and i want to post it here as it seems to be one of the top rated subs aswell in the $600 ballpark.

Can't believe this thread has dragged on this long.

Since you're up to $600, why not just get the Martin Logan Dynamo from Magnolia. It's a sweet sub that's small in size but still goes down to 25hz (and not that dubious Def Tech kind of 25hz), plus you can get it immediately. If you search this forum you'll find that it has many fans. I would take it over that Supercube any day of the week.

BTW, Hsu and Outlaw make several sizes of subwoofers. If you're hung up on the size, get a smaller one (and save some money). IMO, the Outlaws are some of the nicer looking black satin subs (rounded corners, beveled top edge, plexiglass top), but I'm biased, and there's no accounting for taste.

from my research, the PB10 uses the same Technology that Klipsch is using, its called BASH, you probably know that already so id guess that it will sound similar to klipsch most likely if im not wrong

BASH is a term given to the technology for the amplifier that the sub uses to get its power. Its technology provides both high fidelity and high efficiency. This does not completely govern the way it sounds though. This is only one of say three major elements, the other two being the driver and the enclosure. I think one of the points to most of the arguments against the choice you made, and one of the points that you may be missing, is that a subwoofer is ultimately made to create cabin pressure by moving large amounts of air. The amount of air moved by the sub is directly related to the area of the driver and its linear excursion. These factors are mainly determined by the quality and build of the driver used. Just as a reference lets take a 12" driver with a linear excursion of 3". Your 7.5" sub will have to have a linear excursion of 7.7" to move the same amount of air! Aside from that, the enclosure is surprisingly important. As the volume in relation to driver size goes down, so does the efficiency, which means larger amp. You've also got to look at how the sub is tuned. This can be rather complex because you must take into account the enclosed volume and type. There are many types of enclosures as you've probably noticed. There are sealed, ported (Helmholtz resonator), and there are ones like the one that you've chosen that use passive radiators. Not only does the enclosure provide the tuning and play a very big role in the response, but it also channels the air to prevent sound waves that are out of phase from meeting and canceling each other out. To get an idea of what i'm talking about, if you have a friend with subs in his car, wire one of the subs backward and you will notice that the bass will be far less than if just one were connected.

Anyway, you stated that two subs from different companies sounded alike because they both use the BASH amplifier technology. The point of that whole shpeal was that there is a LOT more that goes into a sub than what you realize and that you're not going to be able to read a few specs and know what it sounds like. As someone else stated a few pages back, the best way to gauge its response and performance is by taking a look at the anechoic Frequency Response graph. You want as flat a response as possible. Even this wont give you a true depiction of what the response will be like in your apartment though because room characteristics will play a large role in the response at your listening position.

Oh also, since we gone from a max of 400 to a max of 600, why not just add another couple hundred bucks and get the AV123 MFW-15. Its the one that I've been thinking about getting. I dont think you'd have the upgrade bug for quite some time.

i was just recommended this subwoofer from a personal friend of mine and he said that its truly an audiophile sub:

http://www.soundmindaudio.com/on-line-store/rel-t-3-subwoofer-cherry.html

he said that subwoofer will sound definitely better than the SVS PB10 and the HSU.

what do you guys think on that subwoofer? i cant find much feedback on itNow your getting closer. REL is a well respected sub maker. The T3 is still small, 8", and has a rated -3db of 30 Hz. There is rolls off very quick and is down 6db at 27Hz. If you are primarily music, this would be a very good sub. In your apartment, it will be fine for movies. Most of us are looking for 20Hz or lower to get the most from movie sound tracks. But 27 is OK. To get the feel of explosions and gun fire, you have to move air. Small drivers cannot move enough air to accomplish the "feel" unless you are in very small rooms. That's why we want 12", 15", or 18" drivers or multiple drivers.

Sounds better than SVS or HSU or anything else is subjective (personal preference).

BASH is a technology used by Indigo Manufacturing. It is used by many mid-level subwoofer manufacturers.

Just looked up and saw lilmike used many more words to explain displacement and BASH. Read his first.

I see, alright. No lilmike i cant go over $600 and i dont need that much of a powerfull sub anyway. i gave the outlaw compact sub a look, doesnt look too bad, sells for $399.

heres a link to it: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmcompact.html

the thing with that sub is that its down firing, that kind of subs usually makes the most noise in apartments because it fires bass directly onto the floor.

so i have the outlaw compact as an alternative and also the SVS PB10 as my other alternative:

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm


I guess the REL is not for me because i rarely listen to music(unless theres music in a movie). i mostly watch movies and play games on the 360/ps3.

the thing that i find wiered is that even if i were to buy the SVS pb10 you guys would still say that the eD a2 300 sub is better and cheaper(not that im considering buy the ed , not at all.. just pointing out)

This thread has to be a complete joke. If not (-15 points in love for humanity)

This thread has to be a complete joke. If not (-15 points in love for humanity)

why post if you cant contribute a thing?

Me along other people have learned good info from this thread.

This will keep you busy. Just some opinions and there maybe a graph or 2. Don't come back till you've read everything :)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136

I guess the REL is not for me because i rarely listen to music(unless theres music in a movie). i mostly watch movies and play games on the 360/ps3.

the thing that i find wiered is that even if i were to buy the SVS pb10 you guys would still say that the eD a2 300 sub is better and cheaper(not that im considering buy the ed , not at all.. just pointing out)

The only thing ED A2-300 has on the PB10 is it's cheaper. They are pretty close. But Pb10 you can get now. One thing you need to learn good subs don't sound boomy but they'll shake the room
I play XBL and use my PS3 for movies. I like my PB10 But ime the Pb10 is good for HT and fair for music.Mainly deep lows
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06098.jpg

why post if you cant contribute a thing?

Me along other people have learned good info from this thread.

Really?

I find that hard to believe.

This thread has been like a Jerry Springer episode...painful to watch

yet

I can't help but to follow it.

Really?

I find that hard to believe.

This thread has been like a Jerry Springer episode...painful to watch

yet

I can't help but to follow it.

:eek: you said it out loud :D

:eek: you said it out loud :D
:D LOL!! Someone had to sooner or later!

the thing that i find wiered is that even if i were to buy the SVS pb10 you guys would still say that the eD a2 300 sub is better and cheaper(not that im considering buy the ed , not at all.. just pointing out)Why don't we cross that bridge when we come to it.:) Just make sure you start a new thread.

This will keep you busy. Just some opinions and there maybe a graph or 2. Don't come back till you've read everything :)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136You are one cruel dude.:cool:

the thing with that sub is that its down firing, that kind of subs usually makes the most noise in apartments because it fires bass directly onto the floor.



No, it doesn't matter. Bass waves go everywhere. You could have a sub with its woofer pointed at the ceiling and neighbors below you will hear it if it's loud enough.

I see, alright. No lilmike i cant go over $600 and i dont need that much of a powerfull sub anyway. i gave the outlaw compact sub a look, doesnt look too bad, sells for $399.

heres a link to it: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmcompact.html


Yes, you could have found that link back in my Post #91 (along with other suggestions):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14704603#post14704603

Some recommended reading (as an alternative to your audiophile friends): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9164136#post9164136
(see Post #8 for last edit of ratings).

30 day trial on the Supercube. GREAT.

That would enable someone to order the Ed sub for around 300$ use the super cube for 29 days uintil the Ed sub shows up then return the super cube and save over $200 over the alternatives and not go without a subwoofer.

problem solved.

Me along other people have learned good info from this thread.

really, who exactly? All the info you could ever want regarding your situation is only a forum search away, I think at this point you're either trolling, attention seeking, or just very ignorant.

People on this very thread are patronizing the hell out of you, stop embarrassing yourself.

Your only saving grace at this point is that this whole thing is a troll job, which in light of the content of your posts has to be considered probable and in which case, touche!

really, who exactly? All the info you could ever want regarding your situation is only a forum search away, I think at this point you're either trolling, attention seeking, or just very ignorant.

People on this very thread are patronizing the hell out of you, stop embarrassing yourself.

Your only saving grace at this point is that this whole thing is a troll job, which in light of the content of your posts has to be considered probable and in which case, touche!

Many people learned, its just that you going into forums calling people "trolls" , thats probably all you do

Either way, this thread has gone on long enough.