...will instead buy panels from Panasonic.


The world's No. 4 plasma TV maker will buy fabricated glass panels -- the high-end part of a plasma TV -- from Matsushita in a step that some analysts say could be part of a slow withdrawal from the business.


http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUST2182520080918

I don't think it's a withdrawal, all PDP manufacturers are ganging up together to fight LCDs. 2009 is going to be an interesting year

I love my Pioneer, but I wish I owned Panasonic stock. So they'll be making panels for the Japanese big 3. Wow. The economies of scale will be incredible. Let's hope some of those savings get to the consumer.

I don't think it's a withdrawal, all PDP manufacturers are ganging up together to fight LCDs. 2009 is going to be an interesting year

Especially since next year many LCD maufacturers will be less than 1.5" think like the current Hitachi 1.5" LCD's.

Hitachi's get no love any more and from what I see, they have been taken out of the big chain stores killing there marketing and overall sales. I have no idea what they are going as they were selling a ton of units.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10021645-92.html

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20080821/TVCHART.gif

PDP = plasma

http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rde/xchg/displaysearch/hs.xsl/7034.asp

I guess it's down to LG and Panasonic.

Those are skewed results for a lot of reasons. LCD sales are always going to be much higher because of the variety of sizes and how cheap they are. You can buy an LCD TV for literally next to nothing, the same can't be said for a plasma. It's interesting year growth favors plasma though.

Do the LCD figures include computer monitors?

I guess it's down to LG and Panasonic.

And Samsung too.

And Samsung too.

Of course! I knew I'd forgotten one.

Those are skewed results for a lot of reasons. LCD sales are always going to be much higher because of the variety of sizes and how cheap they are. You can buy an LCD TV for literally next to nothing, the same can't be said for a plasma. It's interesting year growth favors plasma though.Next to nothing?:confused: Of course there are many more choices for lower cost, off-brand lcd's out there...but in my experience plasmas are available for roughly the same or often even less than a comparable lcd from a top tier maker.

That's the point! Where are you going to find a 21" plasma? You can't! The entry price point for each technologies is different. If you are comparing apples to apples with the sizes then yes you'd be correct but I don't think that's what is going on here.

I re-read the article and it looks like "it will shrink production of plasma panels and buy them from Matsushita Electric Industrial Co in a bid to cut losses on its flat TVs in a market dominated by rival LCD technology." Looks like they are doing what Pioneer is doing.

Matsushita is doing a great job of keeping up with the market. They will be the biggest plasma flat panel manufacturer. Although time will tell when they go to their rival (LCD).

Most manufacturer's are going LCD now. Just makes more sense financially.

Chris

This is not too surprising given that they were getting killed in the marketplace. Apparently, few people were swayed by the "HD1080" ALiS panels whose resolution was only 1024x1080 or 1280x1080. That, and plus, their 55" displays never even got that technology and remained at 1366x768. Oh, and they never had glass bigger than that until last year, and even then the 60" 1080p display seemed to be terribly undermarketed when it finally arrived, and it was also apparently available only in very limited numbers. Overall, they just couldn't quite keep up with the competitors.

I wonder where this leaves things as far as the 85" glass that they and Panasonic were reported to be developing together? Will Panasonic still produce this glass? If Panasonic and company could come up with panels in the 65" to 85" size and sell displays using them cheaply ( < $10k street price) they'd be playing in that market all by themselves. And with the NeoPDP technology coming next year, these displays could presumably be produced to meet that pricepoint, while also weighing little enough to actually be manageable as far as shipping logistics are concerned.

That's the point! Where are you going to find a 21" plasma? You can't! The entry price point for each technologies is different. If you are comparing apples to apples with the sizes then yes you'd be correct but I don't think that's what is going on here.

The other link has some descriptors of market shares of TVs by size, both for plasma and LCD. Here is portion of it:



Overall LCD TV gained share during the quarter, rising from 77.5% to 79.8% unit share, a new high. LCD TV also gained against PDP in the 50-54” size category, rising to a new high of 46.1% with most 52” LCD TVs selling at a substantial premium to comparable PDP models. LCD did drop from 97.7% to 93.6% of shipments at 32” though, as 32” HD PDP entered the size category during the quarter.

In the LCD arena, there is a similar consolidation of manufacturers. However, these same factories can output various sizes without much retooling.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/142839/report_sony_to_invest_in_sharp_lcd_venture.html


The issue I see is:


LCD factories can easily make any size to compete on various fronts simultaneously
If the large panel market slumps or saturates, LCD factories can survive making smaller TVs
Without flexibility, diversification or "putting eggs in one basket", increases vulnerability

For current plasma owners, I don't think the market situation translate to any personal issues, except if you're looking to find a replacement plasma panel for repairs or if you're trying to sell a plasma TV; to upgrade, it should be done while there is some residual value left in your old TV, otherwise its like selling an HD DVD player.

The wear & tear element of flat TV's are the panels. Consider if you owned an LCD TV instead. Any LCD can be replaced since the driver electronics are roughly the same, and as someone else said, the panels can be found everywhere. If you bought a top tier brand TV who makes LCD panels, such as Sharp or Samsung, a replacement panel will almost certainly be plug in compatible.

Early in 2008, Pioneer exited the manufacturing of plasma too.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/plasma-tv-is-dead

And Samsung too.

And don't forget whoever is making Vizio, Insignia and other off-brand plasmas. I don't believe all of these are coming from LG. I think there is at least one Taiwanese or Chinese plasma maker.

Early in 2008, Pioneer exited the manufacturing of plasma too.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/plasma-tv-is-dead

Pioneer has not exited manufacturing plasmas. They are ceasing manufacturing the glass but will continue to build plasma sets using glass sourced from Panasonic to Pioneer's specs and the rest of the sets will be all Pioneer electronics. Pioneer has not yet ceased manufacturing their own glass but will transition to Panasonic glass when Panasonic opens its new plant.

We sell referbushed 55" Hitachi's and can not keep them in stock.

LCD factories can easily make any size to compete on various fronts simultaneously

If that's the case, then the thing I can't figure out is what happened to the 57" LCDs that used to be available from S-LCD and Sharp? The only LCDs that are currently available and that are greater than 52" are the 55" Sony and 65" Sharp (and its Olevia counterpart) I believe. Oh and the $30k 70" Sony. That means that anyone looking at the 58" Panasonic or Samsung plasma or 60" Pioneer or LG plasma has absolutely no real alternate choice from an LCD manufacturer.

I love my Pioneer, but I wish I owned Panasonic stock. So they'll be making panels for the Japanese big 3. Wow. The economies of scale will be incredible. Let's hope some of those savings get to the consumer.

which pioneer do you have vashti?

which pioneer do you have vashti?

141:):):)

We sell referbushed 55" Hitachi's and can not keep them in stock.

I'm guessing that it's because the previous generation 55" Hitachis represent everything that was great about the brand - in PQ, features, aesthetics and build quality. They simply don't have that anymore. I don't know why they moved away from that whole design philosophy; I can only speculate that it was price pressure. One of the things that influenced my purchase decision was the statistic that in 2005\06, Hitachi made 4 out of every 5 plasmas that were sold in Japan. Not sure how the models measured up to those on offer in North America, but knowing the Japanese consumer's appreciation of quality, I thought that was a point in Hitachi's favour.

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/bto/20080821/TVCHART.gif

CRTs are still selling that well for them to ship so many? Who in the world is buying a new CRT?

CRTs are still selling that well for them to ship so many? Who in the world is buying a new CRT?

If they sold HD CRTs in my country, I would of bought one of them instead of my 37" Panasonic PX80 Plasma.

I have one collecting dust.. you pay the shipping though ;)

And don't forget whoever is making Vizio, Insignia and other off-brand plasmas. I don't believe all of these are coming from LG. I think there is at least one Taiwanese or Chinese plasma maker.

There are number of Chinese and Eastern European manufacturers of plasma and LCD. However, many use older technology, the kind you wouldn't buy today and that better manufacturers would no longer sell or make.

Utuo is a large local Chinese manufacturer of its own panels and TVs.

http://www.lcd-products.com/UT4201PDP.htm

You can spec their products out and judge for yourselves. Of course, how true those specs sheets really are is another issue.

CRTs are still selling that well for them to ship so many? Who in the world is buying a new CRT?

The developing regions of Asia, Europe and Africa. A color TV can be purchased for under $50 and top makers are mostly now in Asia:

http://www.commerce.com.tw/modules.php?modules=company&action=company_inside&ID=E0101453&s=h

If that's the case, then the thing I can't figure out is what happened to the 57" LCDs that used to be available from S-LCD and Sharp? The only LCDs that are currently available and that are greater than 52" are the 55" Sony and 65" Sharp (and its Olevia counterpart) I believe. Oh and the $30k 70" Sony. That means that anyone looking at the 58" Panasonic or Samsung plasma or 60" Pioneer or LG plasma has absolutely no real alternate choice from an LCD manufacturer.

You can pull the question further and ask why does, for example, Sharp build a 46, 52, then 65 LCD TV, what about all the sizes between? You can say that for any manufacturer for a given size range.

http://www.sharpsma.com/Page.aspx/americas/en/77e6adbe-abbb-489f-b9f0-46e3359750f7/25_-_65_inch_%2f_64_-_165_cm/

I can only guess from my past engineering experience, that, beyond aspect ratio, the final diagonal size is a balance between what sells versus cost to make it.

For Sharp, for example, the power supply design used for the 46" 270W and 52" 300W SE94U series are identical, and for consumers, the street prices are very close. The 65" has a 500W power supply and a street price near 2x that of the 52".

For current plasma owners, I don't think the market situation translate to any personal issues, except if you're looking to find a replacement plasma panel for repairs or if you're trying to sell a plasma TV; to upgrade, it should be done while there is some residual value left in your old TV, otherwise its like selling an HD DVD player.

The wear & tear element of flat TV's are the panels. Consider if you owned an LCD TV instead. Any LCD can be replaced since the driver electronics are roughly the same, and as someone else said, the panels can be found everywhere. If you bought a top tier brand TV who makes LCD panels, such as Sharp or Samsung, a replacement panel will almost certainly be plug in compatible.

Plasma TVs cannot be compared to a media player that no longer has media available. Unlike HD DVD, source material for TVs are the same no matter what you buy. There isn't going to be a broadcast change that LCD can handle but plasma cannot.

And can you replace a 2004 LCD panel with one out of a 2008 TV? I'm pretty sure you cannot. Can you back up your statement that LCD panels will almost certainly be plug in compatable? I'm not saying you can't, just that right now I don't believe it.

There are number of Chinese and Eastern European manufacturers of plasma and LCD. However, many use older technology, the kind you wouldn't buy today and that better manufacturers would no longer sell or make.

Utuo is a large local Chinese manufacturer of its own panels and TVs.

http://www.lcd-products.com/UT4201PDP.htm

You can spec their products out and judge for yourselves. Of course, how true those specs sheets really are is another issue.

Yes, but no-name plasmas are made with LG panels.

I can only guess from my past engineering experience, that, beyond aspect ratio, the final diagonal size is a balance between what sells versus cost to make it.

Sure, but that's partly what I am getting at. If it were simple for LCD manufacturers to compete and be profitable at any size they want (which is essentially what you suggested) then they sure as heck would be selling products in the 57" - 60" range that is completely dominated by plasma manufactures right now, and for that matter the 60"-65" range where only Sharp has an offering.

Plasma TVs cannot be compared to a media player that no longer has media available. Unlike HD DVD, source material for TVs are the same no matter what you buy. There isn't going to be a broadcast change that LCD can handle but plasma cannot.

And can you replace a 2004 LCD panel with one out of a 2008 TV? I'm pretty sure you cannot. Can you back up your statement that LCD panels will almost certainly be plug in compatable? I'm not saying you can't, just that right now I don't believe it.

Sorry, what I referring to was in reference to parts to keep the TV working for as long as possible. If the screen has been damaged, it more difficult to find replacement screens [ which is the wear and tear item for tvs] for something no longer being made by anyone, and possibly even the driver boards.

Which then brings up the second question, can you drop replace a 2004 LCD panel for a 2008 panel? Yes, depending on maker, LCD panel size, and if the labor isn't cost prohibitive.

For example, because Sharp distributes its part is interchangeable modules a defective old 46" Sharp TV has 2 options: change only the LCD as a drop replacement if it exists OR upgrade the LCD panel with a new video board keeping the rest.

To buy parts other than the LCD:

http://www.shopjimmy.com/TVs/Sharp/Sharp-TV-Parts.html

To buy LCD panels:

http://www.sharpmeg.com/Page.aspx/americas/en/c8f1c975-0e43-40bd-9ac1-91cc8a75a062/LCDs/

Note, what screen sizes are available, e.g. per this list there no 37" screens.