I know its early in the game since the the RS10 is not available yet and the Sony HW10 is just now reaching people but would like to know what kind of difference I could expect pros and cons of these two. I'm coming from a Sanyo PLV-Z2000.

I've never considered lower end Sony projectors before but like what Jason Turk had to say about the HW10.

As for JVC, I like how it doesn't have the annoying adaptive iris and does deep blacks but I'm a little worried about color accuracy as that is all I've heard negative about the JVC line of products. Not sure if the RS2 corrected color or not.

I'm on the power buy list so the two products here that I want compared probably here are within $1k and I want to know what I would get for that $1K extra.

Thanks for any help!

I too would be interested in this comparison - and maybe even throw in the Panasonic AE3000.

I really don't want to see the Panasonic in this comparison. There is another thread devoted to the Panny and the Sony. Thanks.

Not sure if the RS2 corrected color or not.


Unfortunately not! Some say it's even a little more "outside the box".

Paradigm, I am in the exact same boat as you. Trying to decide between these 2 projectors. If my bulb blows on my current projector before the RS10 is available my decision will be easy.;)

Regarding JVC color accuracy, if the RS10's color is off, couldn't it be calibrated by Jason? Apparantly the earlier models, RS1 and RS2, you couldn't (correct me if im wrong:)). But what about the new RS10 and RS20?

Paradigm, I am in the exact same boat as you. Trying to decide between these 2 projectors. If my bulb blows on my current projector before the RS10 is available my decision will be easy.;)

Regarding JVC color accuracy, if the RS10's color is off, couldn't it be calibrated by Jason? Apparantly the earlier models, RS1 and RS2, you couldn't (correct me if im wrong:)). But what about the new RS10 and RS20?

RS20 definitely has a CMS. RS10 we've heard less about. It does not have a CMS but may have proper color pre-sets. That is, be as good as other good projectors OOTB.

The colors can be corrected, if need be, on the Sony HW10, correct? It just seems odd that a projector would not have some means of being calibrated by a proffesional...

The colors can be corrected, if need be, on the Sony HW10, correct? It just seems odd that a projector would not have some means of being calibrated by a proffesional...
Agreed. Big lack on the RS1/RS2. I had to get a Lumagen VP to fix the colors on my RS1. Well worth it... very pleased... but a major gripe about these pj's.

Hmmm.. This really concerns me. Thats what I've loved about the Sanyo projectors over the years. I've been able to tweak till I drop when it comes to the colors.

I'm sure the Sony can be adjusted according to Jason's review on it. He said the colors were almost spot on out of the box but was able to adjust grayscale (If I remember correctly) to get it closer to perfect.

Hmmm.. This really concerns me. Thats what I've loved about the Sanyo projectors over the years. I've been able to tweak till I drop when it comes to the colors.

I'm sure the Sony can be adjusted according to Jason's review on it. He said the colors were almost spot on out of the box but was able to adjust grayscale (If I remember correctly) to get it closer to perfect.

If that's what you want I'd say the RS1/RS2 is not for you. If you want 15k or 30k native contrast then they are. The lack of CMS with the extended gamut is a glaring lack. But for about $450 (used) you could get a Lumagen Vision HDP and get gamut "mitigation" that, it seems to everyone's "eye" corrects the problems. If you want a technically correct solution you're going to have to go with a true 3D CMS like the $4 Lumagen Radiance. But IMHO the Radiance is not nearly worth it over what the Vision can do. Very few, if any, can see the difference.

The Sanyos, IIRC, had color replacement rather than a CMS. The problem with the RS1/2 were that the colors were oversaturated. Grayscale could still be calibrated just fine.

The RS20 is said to have a CMS and a preset that should have accurate colors. We don't yet know what the RS10 holds.

I know there will be at least one RS1 for sale with a lumagen HDP once I get the RS20... :)

Ok so it seems the RS20 has x.y.Y. CMS but the Sony does not, correct?

Comparing the RS20 to the HW10 seems a bit far fetched given the gap in price (in RE: the last post above.) Even the RS10 is going to be quite a bit more expensive, but is the more natural comparison.

hmm...I keep forgetting the prices...what's the list on the RS10 and RS20? remind me...

Isn't it around $5000 and $7500 respectively? I don't think JVC has officially released US MSRPs.

The RS10 would be a much closer match to the VW60 than the HW10, market wise. The RS10 is being marketed as an RS1 with better "custom installer" features, same for the RS20 to the RS2.

Unfortunately not! Some say it's even a little more "outside the box".

Well the measurements I have seen show that it isn't worse, but different than the RS1.

My RS2 out of the box doesn't have the crazy greens of the RS1, but it has some red craziness.

So just announced from the UK site:
JVC has announced it official specifications for the HD350 and HD750 projectors contrast ratios, lumens and noise levels. There are no other details that vary from the already published figures apart from the following.

HD350 will have a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1 not 15,000:1 as previously announced. It will also have 1000 lumens brightness and a noise floor of 19db.

HD750 will have a native contrast of 50,000:1 not the announced 30,000:1. It will have 900 lumens brightness and a noise floor of 19db.

There have been no official details of how the natives have been measured in respect to the aperture settings.

We expect our review of the HD750 will be coming soon so stay tuned.





Makes the RS10 (family) even more desirable.

During last week-end there was an Audio Video Trade Show here in Milan (Italy) where all new projectors have been presented (RS10, VW80, HW10, etc...).
I was able to see a shoot-out between the JVC's HD100 (US name is RS2) and the Sony's HW10.
So it is not a HW10 vs HD350 (US name is RS10) but some guys that went to the Trade Show and were able so see the shoot-out HD350 vs HD100 (RS10 vs RS2) are saying the HD350 is better than the HD100...

Shoot-out conditions: same source (don't ask me if it was a Playstation3 or a BD stand alone drive) BD "Pirates of the Caribbean", 2.35:1 screen.
I saw the first chapter of the movie with the JVC and than back from the beginning with the Sony.

I do not comment on PQ as my eyes are not well trained (any way HD100 was better than HW10) but I would like to mention that I realized only with the Sony that the 16:9 native chip was producing the black bar (I would say grey) on top and in the bottom of the 2.35:1 screen. This is obvious.
I even saw the shadows of my head projected in the bottom of the screen (my head was in between pj and screen).
With the HD100 I didn't noticed black bars or saw the shadow!

TinToy

PS
Sorry for my English...

Thank you very much TinToy. That is interesting...including the mention that some people
thought the new HD350 looked better than the HD100!

I attended the same show.

In the HD100 V.S. HW10 the JVC won hands down in contrast and in overall PQ. The HW10 wasn't bad at all for its price, I'd say it's a great vpr to enter the projection world. Its black level was indeed somewhat more grey. I think both vprs were nicely calibrated, the colors were ok to me. The screen was a 2.35:1 3 meters wide (probably gain 1.0).

In the HD350 V.S. HD100 the math was close. Judging from this comparison, I wouldn't spend the extra money for the HD100. But I had the feeling the shootout was a bit biased. I think the HD350 had been accurately calibrated, while the HD100 had not. Going by memory (the doors of two shootout rooms were very close) I think the HD100 picture in the HD100 V.S. HW10 was more detailed. But even if my memory were right, I'd never spend that money for that bit of detail, knowing in the upcoming years there'll be even better machines. Also, the screes were different. Here the screen was a 16:9:1 2.5 meters wide (gain 1.0).

Trying to make a virtual cross-comparison (taking the different setups into account) HD350 V.S. HW10 I think the HD350 wins and the additional money is well spent. I'd be happy to buy an HD350 and probably I'd never feel the urge to upgrade, at least as soon as picture quality is concerned.
If I hadn't the money to buy an HD350, but enough for a HW10, I'd buy the Sony and be happy with it. Probably I'm less picky than many in these forums, maybe it's cause I don't own a projector. But, for exaple, I saw some other projectors in the show such as Benq W5000 and some Planar 3xDLP and I'd never buy them, so I'm not completely easy to convince :)

All the projectors were inudible to me (I was a couple of meters from them, and they were at ears height).

edit: I add I couldn't see (and I looked for them) any misalignment or uneven luminosity in the pictures of all the machines in the two shootouts

Originally posted by TinToy
With the HD100 I didn't noticed black bars or saw the shadow!
Wow, I am surprised that any digital front projector could do that. Can any other RS2/HD100 owners confirm this?

During last week-end there was an Audio Video Trade Show here in Milan (Italy) where all new projectors have been presented (RS10, VW80, HW10, etc...).
I was able to see a shoot-out between the JVC's HD100 (US name is RS2) and the Sony's HW10.
So it is not a HW10 vs HD350 (US name is RS10) but some guys that went to the Trade Show and were able so see the shoot-out HD350 vs HD100 (RS10 vs RS2) are saying the HD350 is better than the HD100...

Shoot-out conditions: same source (don't ask me if it was a Playstation3 or a BD stand alone drive) BD "Pirates of the Caribbean", 2.35:1 screen.
I saw the first chapter of the movie with the JVC and than back from the beginning with the Sony.

I do not comment on PQ as my eyes are not well trained (any way HD100 was better than HW10) but I would like to mention that I realized only with the Sony that the 16:9 native chip was producing the black bar (I would say grey) on top and in the bottom of the 2.35:1 screen. This is obvious.
I even saw the shadows of my head projected in the bottom of the screen (my head was in between pj and screen).
With the HD100 I didn't noticed black bars or saw the shadow!

TinToy

PS
Sorry for my English...


I thought the Sony HW10 can not due 2.35:1?

That is why he talks about the grey bars... It is using less vertical pixels for the picture. The HW10 cannot do Vertical Stretch should you have a panamorphic lens for 2.35:1.

Wow, I am surprised that any digital front projector could do that. Can any other RS2/HD100 owners confirm this?

I have a RS2. I can still do shadow puppets with it and I can still see the bars. They do look black though. Even though I can see these, it is way better than any other digital that I have seen regarding black.

It still isn't nearly as black as a well setup CRT projector.

That is why he talks about the grey bars... It is using less vertical pixels for the picture. The HW10 cannot do Vertical Stretch should you have a panamorphic lens for 2.35:1.

Can the 350/RS10, or is this reserved for its pricier brother? Also, little has been published re the 350, any word on colour control vs, the RS2?

ted

EDIT: no need to answer, I found some answers here: here (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816557).

Both are excellent projectors, though I obviously have more experience with the Sony since the JVC isn't shipping yet. What is your timeframe? I ask because I should be getting my review piece shortly (for the JVC) so that might be worth waiting for.

I should be getting my review piece shortly (for the JVC) so that might be worth waiting for.

10, 20 or both?
ted

With any luck both. RS20 for sure.

I attended the same show.

In the HD100 V.S. HW10 the JVC won hands down in contrast and in overall PQ. The HW10 wasn't bad at all for its price, I'd say it's a great vpr to enter the projection world. Its black level was indeed somewhat more grey. I think both vprs were nicely calibrated, the colors were ok to me. The screen was a 2.35:1 3 meters wide (probably gain 1.0).

In the HD350 V.S. HD100 the math was close. Judging from this comparison, I wouldn't spend the extra money for the HD100. But I had the feeling the shootout was a bit biased. I think the HD350 had been accurately calibrated, while the HD100 had not. Going by memory (the doors of two shootout rooms were very close) I think the HD100 picture in the HD100 V.S. HW10 was more detailed. But even if my memory were right, I'd never spend that money for that bit of detail, knowing in the upcoming years there'll be even better machines. Also, the screes were different. Here the screen was a 16:9:1 2.5 meters wide (gain 1.0).

Trying to make a virtual cross-comparison (taking the different setups into account) HD350 V.S. HW10 I think the HD350 wins and the additional money is well spent. I'd be happy to buy an HD350 and probably I'd never feel the urge to upgrade, at least as soon as picture quality is concerned.
If I hadn't the money to buy an HD350, but enough for a HW10, I'd buy the Sony and be happy with it. Probably I'm less picky than many in these forums, maybe it's cause I don't own a projector. But, for exaple, I saw some other projectors in the show such as Benq W5000 and some Planar 3xDLP and I'd never buy them, so I'm not completely easy to convince :)

All the projectors were inudible to me (I was a couple of meters from them, and they were at ears height).

edit: I add I couldn't see (and I looked for them) any misalignment or uneven luminosity in the pictures of all the machines in the two shootouts

Why was the BenQ W5000 so clearly not competitive with the Sony and JVC?

Thanks,

Warren

With any luck both. RS20 for sure.

Jason,

Did you recieve your review pieces yet? I'm eagerly awaiting some reviews for the RS10...

Jason,

Did you recieve your review pieces yet? I'm eagerly awaiting some reviews for the RS10...
Me too.....

Me too.....

Sticky (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091538)

I have found some service menu tweaks for the HW10 which can improve it's black level performance.

Sony offers a service menu control of the auto iris, which controls how far closed the iris will go on a 0% gray field, as well as at what luminance value the iris becomes fully open.

I have experimented with a range of auto iris settings, and believe I found some changes which greatly reduce the projected light level of a 0% gray field, without causing the auto iris function to become more apparent <pumping>.

I had a Sony VW80 for a brief time and took a range of contrast readings with a new Extech meter. I will take similar contrast readings with the "adjusted" HW10 to see how close it comes to the VW80 performance.

I have been hoping to see a RS10/20, but my local Theater Xtreme appears to have closed it's doors. I would love to see a well calibrated HW10 & RS10 comparison of color decoding accuracy, WB tracking, gamma tracking, shading uniformity, on/off and intra-frame contrast performance, image clarity and motion artifacts.

Still up to your old tricks!:) It will be interesting to see what you come up with.

I followed your thread on the old HS51A, HS60. Good stuff.

By the way, have you measured the on/off contrast ratio of the HW10 with the iris fixed at it's smallest setting?

Not yet.

I'll try to give a comprehensive account of contrast.

Jason,

Did you recieve your review pieces yet? I'm eagerly awaiting some reviews for the RS10...

Does anybody know if these reviews ever materialized and, if so, where can they be found?

ditto on the above post....both the RS10/350 & HW10 are on my list. :)