I just bought a house that was a rancher, the owner started an addition for the top floor but never completed it. So the top floor is just studs and a roof. The problem is the house is next to an intersection for a train and it blows its horn every time it comes by, and is rather annoying. There isn't really much low frequency vibration from the train itself, it's just the horn. So anyhow, the top floor is going to be the bedrooms. I need a cost effective solution for sound deadening on the top floor on the exterior walls. I was shopping around for sound deadening drywall, but at $60/sheet for the cheap stuff, this really isnt a solution as I need about 120 sheets.

Someone recommended just using some r19 in the walls, but I was looking for a more effective solution then that (then again I'm not sure how effective that will be). I don't mind spending some money, but an extra 4 grand for drywall wasn't the solution I was looking for.

Any advice?

You could double-up on drywall for the exterior walls, that might help?

How many windows in the bedrooms. All that expensive sheetrock would be largely for naught without some plan for the windows.

1 or 2 windows per room, I'm not about to change the windows though. I was looking more a long the lines some special insulation. Double rock would be a PITA, but something tells me that simply adding another layer of rock wouldn't do too much. I mean if the sound goes through one layer of rock, whats stopping it going through two

. I mean if the sound goes through one layer of rock, whats stopping it going through two

It's more Mass.

I suspect that the windows will be your weak link in your efforts.
Some good articles here.

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/index.php?/library/articles

There is a special type of crossing gate that can be put in that cannot be bypassed thus no need to toot the horn. Get your neighbors together to petition for one in your neighborhood. Train horns are designed to be heard behind closed car windows with the engine running and radio blasting - they don't care about your house windows.

It is always better to tackle noise at the source...

Ok, here comes the cold water (sorry). If double rock is too much work and you won't do something about the windows (which doesn't mean you need to get rid of them), you might as well do nothing (except fight city hall and do what Kraz suggested).

There is a special type of crossing gate that can be put in that cannot be bypassed thus no need to toot the horn. Get your neighbors together to petition for one in your neighborhood. Train horns are designed to be heard behind closed car windows with the engine running and radio blasting - they don't care about your house windows.

It is always better to tackle noise at the source...

wow that is a fantastic idea...I will definatly look into that. That definatly just made me excited. It's a very nice neighbourhood and the train brings home values down quite a bit within a few block radius. Maybe I can jumpstart an early career in politics as well lol.

Ok, here comes the cold water (sorry). If double rock is too much work and you won't do something about the windows (which doesn't mean you need to get rid of them), you might as well do nothing (except fight city hall and do what Kraz suggested).

I think I said double rock is a PITA, I did not say I wouldn't do it, I simply suggested that I was looking for a less labor intensive solution. I also never said I wouldn't do anything about the windows, just that I wasn't going to replace them. Spare me the alpha male moderator BS because your post is the only one that reeks of it. That prestigious title of yours typically isn't given to people who don't know what they're talking about, so how about you use all that knowledge to help an accoustic rookie like me with a serious problem.

There is 3.5 inches of space in between the rock and the exterior wall, there has got to be something more effective then run of the mill insulation I can stuff in there. If there is not, then I will look into more complex solutions.

What Dennis said is exactly right. He's been donating his time here for a decade, and he's helped literally hundreds of people with myriad issues with no monetary gain. You perhaps misinterpret. He's a great asset and we're all very fortunate to have him here.

There is no insulation that can be inserted into your walls that would be any more effective than what you have now.

The windows are far an away the weak point in your problem. I'd recommend dealing with them, and see if this helps. There's no sense dealing with the walls at this stage since they're not the weak link.

What Dennis said is exactly right. He's been donating his time here for a decade, and he's helped literally hundreds of people with myriad issues with no monetary gain. You perhaps misinterpret. He's a great asset and we're all very fortunate to have him here.

There is no insulation that can be inserted into your walls that would be any more effective than what you have now.

The windows are far an away the weak point in your problem. I'd recommend dealing with them, and see if this helps. There's no sense dealing with the walls at this stage since they're not the weak link.

I'm sure he's a great asset, which is why I showed him some respect at the end of my post. The only thing I've had to judge him on is his post insinuating that I was lazy. I just wish he would use his talent to help me.

Hmmm, any suggestions on the windows? Dennis suggested there are ways other then replacing them.

You can add windows on top of what you have there now. Added to the inside like a storm window. They use laminated glass, which is a big improvement over standard.

www.soundproofwindows.com

All good suggestions so far. I would have someone stand outside with an air horn and find where the sound comes in while you are inside. Start there and work your way into each area where sound leaks in. One thing I would probobly also do is build some boxes around the window with some additional layers of glass, then stick some plants in them, but that's just me.

In my opinion, I wouldn't suspect this is a leak but simply a very powerful soundwave passing right through.

Mass and damping

Dennis wasn't insinuating that you were lazy. He was telling you that insulation and drywall would be wasted money and effort if you didn't have a plan to also deal with the windows. "Leaky" windows would then short circuit the drywall and insulation effort.

Spare me the alpha male moderator BS because your post is the only one that reeks of it. That prestigious title of yours typically isn't given to people who don't know what they're talking about, so how about you use all that knowledge to help an accoustic rookie like me with a serious problem.

For someone coming to a forum asking for assistance, that sure is a way of making a winning impression.

I agree with Cathan, you are not making friends by insulting.

Where is your question about home theater? You don't even ask anything about that, in fact, you are just asking about sound deadening. Maybe you picked the wrong forum and the wrong subgroup?

My suggestion is to move... Train horns don't bother me now, since they are now 2 miles away after I moved.

Good luck

I find absolutely no Alpha Male Moderator tone in the response from Dennis.

When Dennis speaks, people listen.

You should be one of them.

Yup, you have a serious problem. Unfortunately, there is really no "not a PITA" solution. The more frustrating issue is that you could be chasing the issue for some time. For example, let's say you took Ted's advice for the windows and the problem still existed (likely). Your attic is vented...it is likely you'd have flanking coming in from the attic via ceiling mounted (if you have 'em) HVAC registers. There's any number of ways the structure of the house could have you whipping this horse for a long time. If you want it quiet up there, you'll be taking this on, one room at a time.

At the end of the day, it will be (a) a PITA and (b) likely expensive. If you're willing to bite those bullets, post some pictures of the rooms...there's plenty of help from "been there, done that" folk on the forums. Also, see if you can rent, borrow, find, or buy an SPL meter. It would be also good to know just how big a problem this problem is. And, if there is a 3.5" space with nothing but air in it behind the walls, insulate it with something (other than spray in foam) if only for the savings on heating/cooling. There's no magic bullet.

Imagine an aquarium that has three leaks...fixing two of them isn't going to help. Same here with sound.

Dennis, you are a stand up guy.

Bryan, I still don't see an apology anywhere. You are a new member here and you are already insulting people. Maybe this isn't the place for you.

Imagine an aquarium that has three leaks...fixing two of them isn't going to help. Same here with sound.

I see this statement on this forum all the time and I don't understand it. It doesn't agree with my real life experience. In my last house we also lived about a block from train tracks, and could hear the whistles very well. After putting in impact windows (heavy duty laminated glass) the sound decreased substantially. In my current house the laundry room is just off the kitchen. When the washer or dryer are running it is much louder than when the door is shut, even with a 2 inch gap under the door. I can think of similar examples where doing something, even if not perfect, is better than doing nothing.

The aquarium analogy is just there to help explain flanking. The point is that if he doesn't treat his weakest link, whatever else he may do is not going to matter. In your example replacing the windows help (your weakest link), but adding a solid core interior door into your room wouldn't have. Any improvement will always be limited by your weakest point of entry.

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/index.php?/library/articles/flanking

I hope this helps

That makes sense, but the aquarium analogy makes it seem like you might as well not do anything unless you can do it all. Dennis said that he would probably have to do more than do something with the windows. But if the windows are the weakest link, then doing something with the windows may be all that is necessary to reduce the sound to comfortable levels.

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/index.php?/library/articles/flanking

I hope this helps

Yes, it does.
If I treat only one surface aren't I wasting my efforts?
A common myth is that if you don't treat every surface, all of your soundproofing efforts will have been in vain. This is simply not the case at all. If you significantly reduce the sound passing through the one main wall, for example, that's great. What remains will likely be flanking noise to a fair degree. While every structure is different, treating the one main "direct" pathway will generally prove satisfactory for most people. This generally reduces the sound to a tolerable level, but will not eliminate it.

Comfortable sound levels is not the same as sound levels required in a dedicated theater optimized for performance of the noise floor. Obviously a pin hole in a water tank leaks slower than knocking out a side. Maybe a better analogy is have you ever been scuba diving with a mask with a slow seal leak - it is just as damn annoying as one with the face mask cracked.

Some people are comfortable with train whistles next to the house - some are not. People have been putting houses next to trains and planes long enough that there are even psychoacoustic studies that figure out the statistics of how many people are likely to be annoyed or even woken up in a neighborhood at given sound levels. I read of one study of a factory night shift lunch whistle at 11:20pm. After studying the annoyance data they found the only calls came at 11:22pm from the same lady. They simply changed the whistle to 11:30pm after she had fallen asleep - no more calls.

Heck some nights I cannot sleep with the HEPA fan on - other nights I need it on to fall asleep!

If the OP is worried about keeping bedrooms quiet from train whistles - he is in the wrong place. This is the dedicated theater forum with different noise floor requirements. Home theater has absolute rather than statistical annoyance sound levels - and it requires chasing down a lot more of these types of rat holes to reach those performance levels. The best solution then is hire a local acoustician who deals with environmental noise problems every day and can measure the sound in/out and analyze the structure and see if there any cost effective changes that will meet community standards for bedrooms. Next best is to call the soundproofing companies (like the fine one in this thread) and start throwing products at the build until you run out of money or are satisfied - as good as the seller maybe - he is not coming out to your house. The last thing to do is call Dennis - as he would be happy to get you build plans for a NC15 bedroom.

There isn't really much low frequency vibration from the train itself, it's just the horn.

Here is some data in decibels relating to frequencies.


63 Hz 125 Hz 250 Hz 500 Hz 1000 Hz 2000 Hz 4000 Hz 8000 Hz

Train at 100 ft (pulling hard)

95 102 94 90 86 87 83 79 94

Train siren at 50 ft

88 90 110 110 107 100 91 78 109