Hello All.

I am presenting this to you all for just general tips and advice on HOW to shop for the items I'll need for the Home Theatre I plan to build. First off though lemme qualify this (thanks to the suggestion by the guys over in that forum) by saying that I am more interested in the AUDIO portion of the setup as I truly am less concerned about the video. The "Theatre" is in a sense a misnomer but I DO want the sound to accompany the larger screen that I will be purchasing in the future. So I am posting here to get assistance with AUDIO components.

I am starting from scratch. My home is pre-wired (standard wire but to code) and I want to have an In-wall speaker setup for the ceiling connectors (8 total: A pair in the family/great, living, master bedroom and outside above patio...).

How does one really compare Amps and recievers or test acoustics for your home? I am more of a computer guy than an audiophile but my plan is to have a 7.1 setup in the main family room area (two tower speakers, a sub, 2 in-wall ceiling and 2 wall cubies (if they matter)

I plan to get a 60" flat on the wall (I have space) but how do you all suggest to handle wiring (may not have the installer put them in/through the wall)????

I have been to several speaker sites and seen a plethora of speakers but I haven't seen the specific speakers that I would be interested in at the local Fry's/Circut City/Ulitmate Electronics plus I am not sure I understand the true meaning of the all the specs.

Please direct me oh wise ones.

Thanks in advance.

For the most pary you should just ignore the specs, they don't really tell you anything about how the speaker/component will sound.

The only way to know how a speaker/component will sound and whether or not you will like it is to go listen to it. I wouldn't bother doing much listening at the big box stores (CC, BB, Frys). Instead find a reputable audio dealer near you and set up some time to go listen to what they offer. Bring some of your favorite CDs with you when you go.

You didn't mention a budget at all. Do you have one? Once you give us a budget we can give you some recommended brands that fit that price range for you to go listen to.

Thanks KN.

Ya know, I have an original naive' idea that I can get all this for around (drumbeat....)

~ $7000

I haven't really priced intensely however, but I have estimated what I have looked at and this should cover it. So.....enlighten me. That's why I am posting.

With that kind of price range you have a lot of choices available to you. I'd start by looking up some local dealers that carry brands such as Paradigm, PSB, Vandersteen, Dali, B&W, Dynaudio, etc. Then spend some time at those dealers listening to what they have to offer and getting an idea of the different characteristics of each brand.

Once you have listened to a few speakers you'll have a better idea what your tastes are and which ones to short list for an in home session.

Ok.

I can honestly say that the whole time since Sept was NOT spent on looking or researching but after the birth of my second daughter and a little "to Do list" I am back and now seriously shopping.

I have my choice for a Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR806.

I will have these components that I'll need to connect to it:
-T.V.
-DVD player
-Game system (probably PS3 since my wife likes the downloadable Blu-Ray option)
-Cable box??
-Sub
- (+) one for future purposes...

I have a large living room which then continues onto the kitchen. My home is pre-wired for 8 speakers (like I had said in the original post)

This might be a dumb question but.......It seems to have enough connects for 7.1 but I will essentially only have 5.1 in the family/great room area (2 towers/Center channel/Sub/2 in-wall ceiling above the seating area). So I could power say the master bedrooms speakers as well correct???

Then what do I do about the living/outdoor patio speakers (4 total)??

Secondly I had recently gone to a local audio dealer (not big box store) and although there setups are nice and their showrooms are calibrated I really don't intend to spend $450 on a in wall 6.5" speaker. There are other options out there but for my mids/tweets does it matter all that much or is the Center Channel the more important choice?

Please advise me gurus.

Thanks in advance.

A co-worker put me in contact w/ a guy who I wanted to mount my new 40" LCD but he also is in the business for setting up home audio.

He stated that Sensitivity is the MOST important spec to look at for in-wall speakers (or speakers in general).

What do you all think???

I don't really know if I'll need to pay a guy to set up my home audio throughout my house but have you all DIY'd correct??

The area were I will have the majority of my speakers will NOT be enclosed so the acoustics will be something that I'll have to test with the equipment I decide on and go from there but is there a better to do it???

Please advise.

A co-worker put me in contact w/ a guy who I wanted to mount my new 40" LCD but he also is in the business for setting up home audio.

He stated that Sensitivity is the MOST important spec to look at for in-wall speakers (or speakers in general).

What do you all think???




IMO, no. There are too many variables to consider in an entire "system" to place so much importance on how efficient a speaker is. That would be like having a cut diamond that is 2.0ct, but has a poor cut, or several flaws, poor color etc. Yeah, it's big, but that's about it. It may pique a womans interest in the onset, but if there is no fire in that stone, it won't invoke any emotion after that.:D

These are incredibly efficient, but would you want this in your home?
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/cinema/SA.htm :D

Hiring a professional to do this type of work is just like hiring a professional to do anything else. No one can do everything so we rely on others. Hiring a competent company can help you keep your sanity, though. And what's that worth? The main thing that's important is that you are comfortable with the person that you are working with and they do a good job.

A VERY astute metaphor kwkshift and I understand what you are saying.

By the way I am showing my geekness (and age I suppose) but your SN reminds me of the Transformers....

Anyway....NO I wouldn't want those.

I was hoping to find some sleek towers that could drive good sound and really hoping to have the front audio really deliver and the in-walls just be supplementary all while not spending more than I need to.

So far I am sold and locked on the Onkyo receiver and am going to learn more about speaker selector boxes and volume controls

I am hoping that I can do it and appreciate the help I get along the way. I'll keep reading.....

Haha. That's an old screen name I've had forever. It's a carry-over from my car hobby. :) I sent you a PM.

LOL.

Here's another question for the gurus...

The wire that I have I am sure is to spec but not much more. Does Monster wire and all that really matter???

LOL.

Here's another question for the gurus...

The wire that I have I am sure is to spec but not much more. Does Monster wire and all that really matter???Not to most people. Even the guys who claim it does do pretty badly if they try to distinguish high end speaker wire from properly sized ordinary wire in a blind test.

But the gauge (size) IS important. Too much resistance will screw things up. Everything you need to know about speaker wire is on the site below. The "wire table" is the key part. Follow that, and you won't be far off.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

Thanks for the link...

Lots of reading so I am off to learn....

OK.

So after many moons and lots of reading I am beginning to understand what I want and will need to make this project a success.

Looks like I will have to have two receivers. One for the main 5.1 surround audio in the Family Room then another for the other "Zones" (MBr, Patio, Living Room)

I am all for impedance and volume controls in the zones but the problem is that I have the multi-connection audio wall plate in the Family room. IF I am understanding their function correctly I would have to connect the speakers in say the Master BR to the impedance control. That would involve splitting wire then would it not? Hardly what I am looking to do. I have also heard of IR Impedance controls and a IR master that you could connect to the main receiver (available at Radio shack/Frys).

The latter is a more viable option for me. Additionally I was looking into possibly streaming audio/video from the comps that I have in my office to the Family Entertainment Centre (where the receiver(s) and 5.1 will be) using a DAP-1555 (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=570)

I see that another poster has a similar question (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=964608) about using the DAP-1555 with no answer yet so lemme know if that is a possiblity

The TX-SR806 receiver does not have ethernet connectivity, which the DAP-1555 apparently requires.
You might check in the receiver forum, but I recall reading several posts about how poorly the networking receivers actually work ergonomically.

To stream media, there are a few options:
http://www.sonos.com/Default.aspx?rdr=true&LangType=1033
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html
http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/

I use the later because all my music is in applelossless format, and it's the cheapest option. You plug it in an outlet near your receiver, and connect it with a digital optical cable or an analog minijack to RCA cable. Of course, then there's the issue of accessing your iTunes library on the server! The Logitech squeezebox has a fancy controller, but Apple doesn't allow it to stream apple lossless.

As far as your speaker ?s, I would add that since you are wall mounting a flat screen, seriously consider buying three identical tower speakers for the front soundstage. The pervasive horizontal center speaker is not designed that way for ideal sound reproduction. It's a compromise that most people's home theater set ups (or significant others) require.

And, as for sleek towers . . . there are quite a few out there, such as http://www.paradigm.com/en/reference/fronts-millenia-series-2-2-20.paradigm
http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/products/series.aspx?SerId=CSC&Language=ENG&Region=USA&Country=US
This does limit your options a bit, though.

Ditto the above about demoing equipment. Since the amp you bought has Audessey MultiEQ XT, I would consider trying to audition speakers that are connected to a comparable receiver. Of course, that's a tall order! The point is, the effect of rooms are often overlooked. The same speaker may sound different in different rooms. So, auditioning at dealers is great (you have to start somewhere), but don't expect identical results when you take them home. The Audessey ideally will flatten the response in most rooms.

Thanks for the reply amis.... ..... .."AC"

Yeah I forgot to update the post and state that I am going to go with the Onkyo TXNR 906 7.1 receiver (ethernet; any more connections than I'll probably ever need...truly) but I don't quite understand about the ethernet and ergonomics? I'll take a look at those forums and see what the scoop is.

I don't have itunes AT ALL (wife does but her selection is much smaller than mine). Still I see what the specs are and decide on that front whether it would be a worthwhile option. In theory though the DAP-1555 SHOULD work but I'll have to read on settings and how some of the theory applies to my potential setup.

Thanks for the speaker links. I had heard about Paradigms and Infinity seems to be fine as well but again it's hard to really know what the specs truly mean and besides it's all about the room acoustics and my ear anyway right. I have been to a couple of stores so far and their rooms are calibrated so it comes down to them just showing of their high end stuff and me walking out. Not informative at this point. Help me understand your statement. Is a center channel more hype than it is effective? I had read and heard that it can make a large difference.

As a correction I have not purchased ANY equipment (no amp, receiver, or anything else) so check that but I DO understand about trying to demo stuff with similar specs. From the stores I have been to though it seems that the high end stuff that they have is more speakers than components. I'll keep a vigil.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen...Back to more reading.....

So I am back. I took a look at a neighbors surround sound setup a few weeks ago. His house is pre-wired like mine and got an idea of how he setup his and how it looks/sounds.

I'm a bit(emphasis on bit) more informed and aware of what I have to get.

My question this time is if I have the impedance controls in each of the rooms that I'll have speakers in do I need a speaker selector switch as well or is it merely optional?

Here's the breakdown of what the current plan is:
Living/Family Room: 5.1 surround (don't need 7)
-2 Towers: Unknown
-2 Rear (in-ceiling): leaning towards Polk products since neighbor can get factory direct prices
-1 Sub: Unknown
-Y Receiver for the 5.1 (Zone 1): Onkyo TXNR 906 7.1
-X Receiver for the rest of the house (Zone 2): anything thats on sale
-impedance controls for each room [3] (wires are already there thank goodness)
-2 Amps??? this is the next subject of my reading
-Speaker Selector Switch (if not necessary then may still get one for convenience; I do understand about the possible power loss though)
-some type of wireless connectivity for audio/video streaming from comps in office: Leaning towards AirPort Express but thanks to apple premium pricing it's the same price as the DAP so it may be a wash.

Budget remains $7000.

it's hard to really know what the specs truly mean and besides it's all about the room acoustics and my ear anyway right.

I strongly recommend reading Floyd Toole's concise white papers on these topics:
http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/technology/whitepapers/inf-rooms_1.pdf
http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/technology/whitepapers/inf-rooms_2.pdf
http://www.infinitysystems.com/home/technology/whitepapers/inf-rooms_3.pdf

Is a center channel more hype than it is effective? I had read and heard that it can make a large difference.

I just meant that the horizontal, designed center channel speaker is a compromise that some people can avoid by using the same vertical bookshelf/tower speaker in the middle that they use on the front left and right. There are good centers out there that are active and/or have equalizing filters that compensate. It's not something to obsess about. There are quite a few advocates of using no center around here. Most films are mixed so that the vast majority of information is sent to the center channel, so I prefer a discrete multichannel soundtrack on a 5.1/6.1/7.1 speaker setup.

HOLY #*%&!!!!!! :eek:

AC I'm going to be buried for the next month!!! It's like I'm in college all over again. NP I'm on it. When's the test? ;)

Thanks for the articles.

Cool! I remember that feeling:)
Have fun--

So boys (and girls?)....

I think there is some clarity now. I read the Harmon Kardon white papers and took some notes. Not sure if I am better or worse for it but I am understanding the language better now. I am realizing what Dynamic headroom is and what frequency charts can mean. I have been to several places now have a gameplan and naturally realized my budget is too small for what I am attempting to accomplish. So.

Just the facts ma'am you say? Here is the predicted lineup:

Defenitve Techonolgy MTS “SuperTower” Series v. Mirage OminSat v2 towers
1 Center| “Mythos Three” Center Channel (for tonal equality)
2 Recievers:
· Onkyo: TXNR 906 7.1
· MarantZ: SR6003
2 Ceiling Directional Speakers (surround): Still looking but will be different
6 In-Wall Speakers: leaning towards SpeakerCraft or Polk (remember the neighbor discount)
Sub#1: Klipsch Sub-12 SubWoofer (passive and for music)
Sub#2: SVS PC12 Plus Sub (the main woof and for movies)
D-Link DAP 1522 NetWork Bridge (Video & Audio Streaming) it seems to have worked for one fella here (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46477)
Playstation 3 (for Blu-Ray capabilities..... honest)
60” LCD Wall mounted TV: 65” Panasonic Plasma VIERA 65PZ850U TV

So not looking for praise or criticsms on the products themselves but do need some clarity on the use of in-ceiling directionals and the combo woofers. Guy @ Best Buy sounded good and seemed to have knowledge but next time I see him I'm gonna ask him where his specs and pics are posted. I have kids. Rears on stands aren't gonna work. I have read that you can make in-ceiling work and they can be good(not great) for surround purposes. Only need the mid to high range but have read that speakers w/5-6.5" woofers and small tweeters that can cover as close to the human spectrum (20Hz to 20MHz). Is this the case?
I Googled and found a thread on a forum from 03' talking about different in-ceiling speakers and brands. I have searched and looked @ Niles, SpeakerCraft, B&W, Paradigm, Polk, and Klipsch. So far doesn't seem like it matters. I realize that all speakers should have a cabinet and the SpeakerCrafts come close but the clearance needed for some of those monstrosities seems needless. Any suggestions?

New Budget by the way: $15,000 (nearly doubled) Howya like that? LOL! I guess I couldn't help it.

It's getting close. I am going to make my CD and bring my Empire Strikes Back DVD and do this. The plan is to have it ready to go before first week of College Football we'll see. Thanks in advance...