With production quantities of image quality OLED panels now available and affordable is it now possible to create a CRT style ( single panel/single lens ) style projector using say a 9" OLED panel instead of a CRT.

I am envisioning a 1,000,000:1 on/off CR, 3,000:1 ANSI CR, DCI++ color 9" single gun pj hanging from my ceiling

Is this a viable business op?? :D:D

http://www.oled-display.net/kodak-announces-worlds-first-am-oled-digital-frame

http://www.oled-display.net/images/digital-photo-amoled-frame-kodak.jpg

With production quantities of image quality OLED panels now available and affordable is it now possible to create a CRT style ( single panel/single lens ) style projector using say a 9" OLED panel instead of a CRT.

I am envisioning a 1,000,000:1 on/off CR, 3,000:1 ANSI CR, DCI++ color 9" single gun pj hanging from my ceiling

Is this a viable business op?? :D:D


Sounds interesting. What are the lumens from a single 9" panel? Btw, the latest issue of SID is devoted to OLED.

Mark. I offered to send you an 11" one of these for a paltry price and said you could make your own projector with an old Theater Lens, a box, and a lamp. If you remember I said I couldn't give you what would be the resultant specs, just the panels NATIVE. BTW. They are not real;ly getting a million to one. That's purely for advertising purposes. They are getting close to that though.

I have the Sony 11" and to my eye its reference. If we could get a FP that looks this rich and saturated with its black level shadow detail with enough brightness I will retire my annual projector upgrade practice.

I'm wondering if the OLED could stand up to the heat in a typical projector. No data, just an association of organic molecules with lower heat tolerance than silicon.

Could be fixed with higher efficiency lighting and/or different case design (separating the light source from the panel more effectively).

alan. Go on ebay and buy an old Theater Vision Projector box. It had a small TV set inside, shoot the image through a BIG lens. Google the design. Why be limited to a tiny 11 inches. Just paint some screen goo on to your wall, turn out the lights, and you're done. Won't be real bright but neither am I.

... It had a small TV set inside, shoot the image through a BIG lens...Is'nt that basically what a CRT FP consists of, 3 small (5" to 12") CRT tubes each coupled to a lens?

Samsung states their panels will output 600 nits. How much light does a 9" FP CRT output?

Is'nt that basically what a CRT FP consists of, 3 small (5" to 12") CRT tubes each coupled to a lens?

Samsung states their panels will output 600 nits. How much light does a 9" FP CRT output?

WAY WAY more than these direct view displays are close to producing. Whenever the OLED displays are capable of being bright enough that you want to wear sunglasses before looking at it we'll be in the ballpark. I have clear memories of needing sunglasses to look back in through the lenses of my 7" CRT projector while it was operating.


I'm wondering if the OLED could stand up to the heat in a typical projector. No data, just an association of organic molecules with lower heat tolerance than silicon.

Could be fixed with higher efficiency lighting and/or different case design (separating the light source from the panel more effectively).

The OLED *IS* the light source.

WAY WAY more than these direct view displays are close to producing. Whenever the OLED displays are capable of being bright enough that you want to wear sunglasses before looking at it we'll be in the ballpark. I have clear memories of needing sunglasses to look back in through the lenses of my 7" CRT projector while it was operating.
...can you put that in measurement units (cd/m2)?:)

I prefer to look at the image bouncing off the screen. But what the hell, get a 6.0 gain screen, keep repeating I don't see no freekin hot spots, and go for it Better yet use two 11 inchers and two lenses. Alan G could use that $50K processor to split the image and then blend it.. Should be child's play.

can you put that in measurement units (cd/m2)?:)

The specification page above for the OLED display indicates that its brightness is 200 cd (which I presume is actually cd/m^2 or lux, the common unit of measurement for display brightness). The display is 7.6 inches on the diagonal at 1.78:1 aspect ratio.

Using a calculator I have on my desktop, this yields an area of .01589 m^2. Multiplying the brightness by the area yields 3.178 lumens.

So, if I've applied the calculations correctly, the display would need to be at least 20 times brighter to get into the ballpark to compare with the brightness of most practical projectors.

The specification page above for the OLED display indicates that its brightness is 200 cd (which I presume is actually cd/m^2 or lux, the common unit of measurement for display brightness). The display is 7.6 inches on the diagonal at 1.78:1 aspect ratio.

Using a calculator I have on my desktop, this yields an area of .01589 m^2. Multiplying the brightness by the area yields 3.178 lumens.

So, if I've applied the calculations correctly, the display would need to be at least 20 times brighter to get into the ballpark to compare with the brightness of most practical projectors.

I think OLED will go much brighter than 200cd/m2 though. On the order of several tens of thousands of cd/m2. I've even heard 50,000 cd/m2 as the upper limit. So there might be something to HHF's business idea. It may be awhile before panels are available with that sort of brightness though.

I think OLED will go much brighter than 200cd/m2 though. On the order of several tens of thousands of cd/m2. I've even heard 50,000 cd/m2 as the upper limit. So there might be something to HHF's business idea. It may be awhile before panels are available with that sort of brightness though.

It certainly would be cool if the versions of OLED with sufficient brightness would eventually be developed to make this possible. For the time being, though, HHF's business idea hinges on the affordability of the current displays like the one in the provided link. That family of displays is at least an order of magnitude too dim to drive a projection system right now.

If and when those new brighter displays are developed we'll see if the term "affordable" still applies. The lifespan of OLED certainly could give the laser a viable competitor (presuming that lifespan data from the current displays would still pertain to the much brighter variant.) No doubt it would be very cool to be done with convergence issues without injecting the spinning color wheel solution of DMD. An OLED solution would likely return us to the days of very large lenses - so that would also be a factor in terms of size, weight, and price.

It certainly would be cool if the versions of OLED with sufficient brightness would eventually be developed to make this possible. For the time being, though, HHF's business idea hinges on the affordability of the current displays like the one in the provided link. That family of displays is at least an order of magnitude too dim to drive a projection system right now.

If and when those new brighter displays are developed we'll see if the term "affordable" still applies. The lifespan of OLED certainly could give the laser a viable competitor (presuming that lifespan data from the current displays would still pertain to the much brighter variant.) No doubt it would be very cool to be done with convergence issues without injecting the spinning color wheel solution of DMD. An OLED solution would likely return us to the days of very large lenses - so that would also be a factor in terms of size, weight, and price.

Good points. I think at some point we will also see much brighter and also much smaller panels so I think at some point there can be something viable for FPTV but probably not with a .7" or thereabout chip that are used in current projectors so you're right that lens size and especially cost will be an issue.

There is a lot of promise in OLED and I think we'll see a lot of rapid progress in this area and also see the prices come down. It also works very well in bright sunlight which is the application that my company is looking at it for. For smaller devices needing a lot of brightness and high efficiency (long battery life) OLED is an ideal technology and there should be a lot of volume in this market which will help to drive technology improvements and cost reduction. So it wouldn't surprise me if someone tries the FPTV route (HHF you could be the first :) )

"I think OLED will go much brighter than 200cd/m2 though."

What's OLED's efficiency - can they do this w/o overheating?

There is a Sony remote coming with an OLED screen. I ordered one about 6 months ago, but it still hasn't shipped. Got it for playing with an OLED. I don't remember the model number, Not sure if its on Sonystyle or not/

"I think OLED will go much brighter than 200cd/m2 though."

What's OLED's efficiency - can they do this w/o overheating?

Efficiency is OLED's strength. I'll dig up some numbers when I get home tonight but it's very high. Much better than electroluminescent for example. If the price comes down it could give CFL a run for it's money...

...For smaller devices needing a lot of brightness and high efficiency (long battery life) OLED is an ideal technology and there should be a lot of volume in this market which will help to drive technology improvements and cost reduction. So it wouldn't surprise me if someone tries the FPTV route (HHF you could be the first :) )If Kokad can msrp picture panels for $1K then quantity 1000 prices for the raw panels must already be < $100 per. Sounds interesting. :)

If Kokad can msrp picture panels for $1K then quantity 1000 prices for the raw panels must already be < $100 per. Sounds interesting. :)

Yup very interesting. OLED is going to be huge.

Or something like OLED. There is a large Japanese group of companies investing together in technology like OLED. It may be called something else and differ somewhat from Sony's. It has something to do with panel life and spec fall off.

Or something like OLED. There is a large Japanese group of companies investing together in technology like OLED. It may be called something else and differ somewhat from Sony's. It has something to do with panel life and spec fall off.

Was it one of these?:
- AM OLED = Active Matrix OLED device
- FOLED = Flexible Organic Light Emitting Diode (UDC)
- OLED = Organic Light Emitting Diode/Device/Display
- PhOLED = Phosphorescent Organic Light Emitting Diode (UDC)
- PLED = Polymer Light Emitting Diode (CDT)
- PM OLED = Passive Matrix OLED device
- POLED = Polymer Organic Light Emitting Diode (CDT)
- RCOLED = Resonant Color Organic Light Emitting Diode
- SmOLED = Small Molecule Organic Light Emitting Diode (Kodak)
- SOLED = Stacked Organic Light Emitting Diode (UDC)
- TOLED = Transparent Organic Light Emitting Diode (UDC)

Companies are scrambling trying to patent different aspects of it because it has such promise. Imagine just one technology that could replace LCD's, LED's, RPTV's, and even house lighting... It'll be interesting to see if it actually lives up to the expectations/hype.

if the brightness was increased the optics would be considerably easier to design. You would need a unit that produced 50,000Cd/m2 but after that it would be easy. Building the first prototype would take less than 6 months

Who do I talk to?