I’m posting this in both the under $3,000 and $3,000 and up forums, since I’m trying to decide what differences I’ll actually see for the extra money in my application.

I have a room (photo attached) that is 16’10” wide and I’m planning to mount a projector to a 9’ ceiling and have approximately a 20’ throw distance. I’m thinking that this will allow something like a 150” screen size (which would be approximately an 11’ wide x 6’ high image). I’ll keep a 57” Hitachi Ultravision rear projection unit for casual TV watching and use the projector mostly at night for movies, sports, and prime time television.

I’m finding projector model selection relatively difficult, since side by side comparisons are not readily available and I’m not quite sure about the best place to start. So far, I’ve just looked online and visited one local retailer. They recommended two models: the Sony VPL-AW15 at about $1,100 and the Sony VPL-HW10 at about $3,500. I’ve tested with business presentation projector (Epson Powerlite 77c - 2200 ANSI Lumens/400:1 contrast ratio/1024x768) from work at home and the image looked pretty good. What I’m trying to determine is 1) how much of a difference I’ll really see from a $1,000 projector to a $3,000+ projector and 2) what model projector people would recommend for my room.

Finally, one last question: I’m thinking of using one of the paint on screen products (such as https://www.paintonscreen.com or http://www.goosystems.com). Does anyone have any recommendations about doing this vs. purchasing a wall mountable or pull down screen?

With that size screen you'd be better off with high lumens and 1080P or use a High Power screen. If your sitting close to that size image with a 720P projector you'll definitely see pixels. For a budget projector, take a look at the Mitsubishi HC4900.

1) how much of a difference I’ll really see from a $1,000 projector to a $3,000+ projector and 2) what model projector people would recommend for my room.

Finally, one last question: I’m thinking of using one of the paint on screen products (such as https://www.paintonscreen.com or http://www.goosystems.com). Does anyone have any recommendations about doing this vs. purchasing a wall mountable or pull down screen?The $1000 projector, you're probably buying slightly older technology and/or cheaper optics, and cheaper image processing capabilities. At that price, you're primarily focused on making sure you get a projector that's bright enough for your screen and viewing distance. (At 150", that'll be important.)

The $3000+ projector (something like the soon to be released 3LCD 1080p projectors) is going to show you significant improvements in black levels and native contrast, and should have better optics and image processing capabilities (such as the Reon-VX), and will have features such as a very fast and silent auto-iris, and panels capable of 120 Hz, with features like frame creation. (Basically, creating intermediary frames, which is probably more beneficial in fast moving sports than 24fps movies)

My wife probably wouldn't notice the differences between the two.:rolleyes::p That said, one of the things I've seen said around here more than a few times is "you get what you pay for". No one needs a $3000+ projector in their home (any more than they need a projector in their home, period), but there's a lot of people here who will tell you that the increased price is worth it...to them.

As for the screen, is the room going to be a dedicated room? Are there young kids who might touch the screen? Are you financially opposed to buying a professional screen? Are you a bit of a handyman/DIYer? Would an electric screen be too expensive? Would a pulldown screen be too much of a pain? Will you need a high gain screen for a 150" diagonal based on the projector you choose? It'd be good to know a little bit more about the room. I had a nice pull-up screen, but it was always left up, and we just got a custom electric screen that pretty much covers the whole wall with black matte, but most people probably wouldn't even know there was a projector screen if they walked into the room while it was up.

Are you going to do something about the room? If not, the screen choice will be way more important than the projector and this is where you should put the bucks. The washout effect will otherwise negate many of the differences between the cheap and expensive projectors and you can forget everthing about black level performance. A Black Diamond or Firehawk type of screen would be necessary to keep the picture from washing out to a very high degree in all mid to high APL scenes.

Also, I think you are overdoing it with 150''. You will have problem finding projectors bright enough to light up such a big screen and the screen will get close to the white ceiling/walls, which would increase washout further. I wouldn't go more than 110-120'' diagonal unless you want to buy a Hi Power and repaint your room to decrease reflectivity.

Are you going to do something about the room? If not, the screen choice will be way more important than the projector and this is where you should put the bucks.

+1 to this, but I also include the room itself.

I went to the JVC HD350/750 launch yesterday and it's the first time I've seen a PJ setup in a 'proper' room. The difference between their demo room and my living room was literally night and day. I thought I'd got my room as dark as possible (but there is still room for improvement I discovered), but it's the walls, floor and ceiling reflections that are as much a limit to my picture. Whilst my AE2000 can do a reasonable fade to black in my room (with the DI engaged it is more dramatic), the darker scenes just turn to grey and the screen surface kind of 'appears' which spoils the 'suspension of belief' that we are generally aiming for when watching a film.

I now think that I'm not even getting the best out of my existing PJ let alone spending £2,000+ (HD350 list price less my AE2000 secondhand sale price) on upgrading to a 'better' PJ. Whilst the very cheapest PJs might still look worse in my room than the AE2000 does, you need to be aware that there is a limit that seems to be easy to reach if your room is poor, or has ambient light. Some will argue that you can 'see' the better black level, but unless you watch a lot of fade to blacks (when the room has much less effect, so long as all ambient light is removed) then I think it is moot.

I don't want to come across as too negative, but yesterday's demo was such a wake up call to me I just wanted to share my findings to others who might also never have seen a PJ in such a well setup room.

Are you going to do something about the room?

Also, I think you are overdoing it with 150''.

I'm planning on keeping my 57" Hitachi projection TV for daytime viewing. I'd only be using the projector at night at which time my room is very dark.

It also gets fairly dark during the day. I have room darkening shades, but I had several windows open for the photos.

I'm not opposed to painting the room and had at least planned on painting the wall to which will be used as the screeen.

150" may be overkill, but I was just pointing out that my wall is 16'10" x 9', so I can go fairly big. Of course if picture quality is better at 100" or 120" than at 150" or higher, I'll go with smaller/better over larger/worse. Still, I'd like to go as big as possible without sacrificing quality.

I was able to pretty much fill my 16' x 9' wall with the Epson business projector (just playing a DVD on my laptop). I was just projecting onto a lightly textured wall and the picture quality looked good. I would say that it was close to (if not equal to) my Hitachi TV.

Another thing (as a newbie) that I have noticed is that the business projectors seem to be rated brighter than the home theater projectors. The Epson that I tested with was 2200 lumens, while the home theater projectors seem to be around 1000. Is this just because PowerPoint presentations (and such) tend to be done in rooms with ambient light? Is there a bright home theater projector that you would recommend?

I'm planning on keeping my 57" Hitachi projection TV for daytime viewing. I'd only be using the projector at night at which time my room is very dark.

It also gets fairly dark during the day. I have room darkening shades, but I had several windows open for the photos.

I'm not opposed to painting the room and had at least planned on painting the wall to which will be used as the screeen.

150" may be overkill, but I was just pointing out that my wall is 16'10" x 9', so I can go fairly big. Of course if picture quality is better at 100" or 120" than at 150" or higher, I'll go with smaller/better over larger/worse. Still, I'd like to go as big as possible without sacrificing quality.

I was able to pretty much fill my 16' x 9' wall with the Epson business projector (just playing a DVD on my laptop). I was just projecting onto a lightly textured wall and the picture quality looked good. I would say that it was close to (if not equal to) my Hitachi TV.

Another thing (as a newbie) that I have noticed is that the business projectors seem to be rated brighter than the home theater projectors. The Epson that I tested with was 2200 lumens, while the home theater projectors seem to be around 1000. Is this just because PowerPoint presentations (and such) tend to be done in rooms with ambient light? Is there a bright home theater projector that you would recommend?

With a screen that wide or close to it in that room you owe it to yourself to try to find someone on this forum with a nice projector in your price range who is projecting on a Hi Power, who will let you take look at his set up. If you can get your projector to not too much height you've got the perfect room for it with all the seating being virtually within the side borders of the screen, and it's a great screen that's not nearly as expensive as some of the other top of the line options, and will give you a lot of brightness wherever you sit. As many have said over the years the screen surface disappears, no texture or uneven hot spotting when you're in its performance cone.

Another thing (as a newbie) that I have noticed is that the business projectors seem to be rated brighter than the home theater projectors. The Epson that I tested with was 2200 lumens, while the home theater projectors seem to be around 1000. Is this just because PowerPoint presentations (and such) tend to be done in rooms with ambient light? Is there a bright home theater projector that you would recommend?With brightness, business projectors are made for brightness, home theater projectors are made for accurate colors. The "lumens" ratings that you see on the projectors is also way off (much higher) than what you'll get with a properly calibrated home theater projector, so make sure you do some leg work reading up on the model(s) you're considering.

(When I say "calibrated", even if you don't have your projector professionally calibrated, and use one of the default modes like "Cinema", you're going to end up with a less bright picture, but more accurate colors, than you'd get with the "Dynamic" mode that they use to rate the brightness of the projector.)

I'm not opposed to painting the room and had at least planned on painting the wall to which will be used as the screeen.

First off, paint the room, not necessarily black, but something darker, and flat (not glossy or semigloss). What I did in my basement was to paint the ceiling the darkest grey/blue at HD that wasn't black and the walls a shade lighter. Works quite well without feeling "black", though it could probably be better of course.

150" may be overkill, but I was just pointing out that my wall is 16'10" x 9', so I can go fairly big. Of course if picture quality is better at 100" or 120" than at 150" or higher, I'll go with smaller/better over larger/worse. Still, I'd like to go as big as possible without sacrificing quality.

How far back are you sitting? You probably want to shoot for a screen height of between 1/3-1/2 your seating distance. CAVX has a great writeup on getting the optimal screen size and seating distance in your room, take a look here:
http://cavx.blogspot.com/2006/09/marks-home-theatre-projects-cavx-room.html

I was able to pretty much fill my 16' x 9' wall with the Epson business projector (just playing a DVD on my laptop). I was just projecting onto a lightly textured wall and the picture quality looked good. I would say that it was close to (if not equal to) my Hitachi TV.

Frankly if you were that happy with an Epson business unit, you will be absolutely floored with a properly setup, quality HT projector.

Another thing (as a newbie) that I have noticed is that the business projectors seem to be rated brighter than the home theater projectors. The Epson that I tested with was 2200 lumens, while the home theater projectors seem to be around 1000. Is this just because PowerPoint presentations (and such) tend to be done in rooms with ambient light? Is there a bright home theater projector that you would recommend?

Yeah, that's the basic idea. Business projectors are designed to be used where things like black level and color accuracy are largely irrelevant, they are also used in medium to high ambient light conditions. As such they are designed for light output, almost to the exclusion of everything else (color accuracy, noise, contrast, image processing, etc).

HT projectors are just the opposite, they are designed to be used in low light conditions where color accuracy, black level, and noise are important, thus light output is sacrificed.

As for the projector, there's no way to answer the question "how much better" a "3k+" projector will be compared to a "<3k" machine, that's really a personal value judgement. But as noted above, you'll get newer technology, better components, with a more expensive machine.

As far as projectors, with your inferred budget, there are two machines I'd take a look at.

First, the BenQ W5000, it's a rather bright, vivid DLP. It's what I've got now and it throws a very nice image.

Second, call AV Science (eg Jason Turk) about the JVC DLA-RS10. Just do it. The performance that thing reportedly is capable of would have been probably $5-6k just a couple months ago.

Oh, and one last thing, I did a Goo screen, and while it works, frankly I'm not sure it's really worth the cost vs just "normal" paint. If you want to go really big though, you're probably going to need to look into screens with some gain.

I'm planning on keeping my 57" Hitachi projection TV for daytime viewing. I'd only be using the projector at night at which time my room is very dark.

It also gets fairly dark during the day. I have room darkening shades, but I had several windows open for the photos.

I'm not opposed to painting the room and had at least planned on painting the wall to which will be used as the screeen.

150" may be overkill, but I was just pointing out that my wall is 16'10" x 9', so I can go fairly big. Of course if picture quality is better at 100" or 120" than at 150" or higher, I'll go with smaller/better over larger/worse. Still, I'd like to go as big as possible without sacrificing quality.


Even if you can get the room completely dark, you still have way too much reflections from your white walls/ceiling. You would need to paint the area around the screen dark, i.e. both adjacent walls and the ceiling, or get a screen that can handle reflections. However, screens can only help you so far. If you want the most out of the projector you really needs to get a darker room. I would guess painting the walls/ceiling area out until the door on the right will help a lot. On the other hand, if you think the picure was ok with the borrowed projector and the black level didn't bother you, then you can save money and buy a cheap projector.

The problem going 150'' is that most HT-projectors in good color mode puts out 4-500 lumens, and that is with a new lamp. This is way too low for that big a screen. The business projectors are way brighter but have poor colors, resolution, contrast, image handling and a pronounced screen door effect, i.e. the pixel grid pattern is clearly visible. That makes them crappy HT-projectors. Brighter HT-projectors tend to be really expensive, for 2000 lumens I guess you would have to go for a 3 DLP system a $15-25K. However, you can have a look at the new epsons, one of those is supposed to have an external filter that allows you to get over 1000 lumens with acceptable colors. But I think the Da-Lite Hi Power screen is the best/cheapest solution if you want to go big.

reading this thread made me wonder something about my HT room. my screen will be on one wall that is about 8' high. the ceiling in the room is vaulted and approximately 16' high. so the wall with the screen on it goes about halfway up to the ceiling. the ceiling is white. since it is SO much higher than the screen, i never really considered painting it. what are you guy's experience with screens in rooms with high vaulted ceilings? also, there is no wall on the right side of the theater room, it is clear open to the kitchen and the breakfast room. there is an off white wall to the left of the screen and an off white wall in the back of the room (about 13' from the screen) with darker vertical blinds. dark rug on the floor. zero ambient light.

ideally i'd make the left wall and back wall darker, but even if i don't what do you guys think?

sorry for the thread hijack, i didn't want to start a new thread with just my minor curiousity issues. maybe the answers can help the OP or other readers with similar issues.

ideally i'd make the left wall and back wall darker, but even if i don't what do you guys think?

sorry for the thread hijack, i didn't want to start a new thread with just my minor curiousity issues. maybe the answers can help the OP or other readers with similar issues.
One easy test is to put on the projector and look at your walls/ceilings. Are they lighted up? If yes they are affecting your contrast and you could get an improvement by painting them dark. The brighter they are the more wash out they causes. Those that are not lighted by the screen can be left as they are.

jr_az, When planning your system,think about sound! A major factor in home theater enjoyment is the SOUND. Where are you planning to put your speakers? Are you going 5.1 or 7.1, where are your electronics going to be placed? If you are not mounting the speakers in-wall,you need to account for speakers on the screen wall.If you try for 150" you will most likely be blocking some of the screen with speakers.My theater is 15.6'wide and max screen width is about 120" 2.35ar,so that none of the screen is blocked by speakers.JB