I am downsizing to a 2 channel + subwoofer HT setup. I am going to pickup a Pioneer Blu-Ray player (BDP-51FD) that handles decoding internally and then connect the analog stereo outputs to my BAT preamp.

I still have room for my ACI sub and I am debating on whether to use the LFE output on the Blu-Ray player, or 2nd set of outputs on my BAT preamp. I am leaning towards the BAT outputs, but wondering if the LFE information will get included in the Blu-Ray players stereo downmix? Or, is the LFE information lost?

Thanks in advance for any input!

Wow, I don't know, but I remember you were very helpful to me when I mulled over the possibility of a 2 ch pre w/ bypass. If I were you, I'd pm sdurani b/c I think he knows everything. :p

You are running mains as full-range, yes? This might* make implementaion easier as the LFE is often "cut" in players. This way you can turn up sub gain to calibrate, w/o disproportionately raising "summed bass".

My guess is that you will want to use the LFE output of the BD player. Total guess. You can either find out what the LFE cut is in that player, or use an SPL meter.

Re BDP choice, there was an interesting shootout recently, I think you might be interested. Tested are
Pioneer BDP-51
Pioneer BDP-05
Panasonic BD50
Samsung 1500
Sony S350
Sony PS3

DL results here
http://www.4shared.com/file/63225453/45dc9e15/BluRay_shootout_results_final.html

Read about this at this AVS thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1065876

Hey, jostenmeat. Thanks for the quick response and good info. I had not seen the shootout yet - good stuff!

I was running the BAT preamp in HT bypass mode... it worked pretty well. I am downsizing because it looks like we will move to a smaller place in the city. No room for a dedicated HT room. Kinda sucks, but I am actually looking forward to a little less complexity. Also, I think I might be able to bank some extra SAF/WAF (she is not a big fan of the current setup) for a future speaker upgrade. I am going to run the front speakers full range... sub only on for movies.

No problem. I enjoy helping people out, but for those who personally helped me before, its a requisite! err... if still a pleasure. :)

Just yet another off-the-wall idea, if you like HT action stuff as much the next guy, you might think about adding a tactile transducer to the couch, such as either an Earthquake or Buttkicker. You didn't say apartment, only a smaller place, but if I moved to an apartment that's what I would do.

OTOH, I guess you have the sub already. I find that the sub is the least WAF component there is. Even if you ditch the surrounds, you can still use a center speaker... Personally, if I had a flat panel (which I don't know if that's what you use) I'd see if I could mount it high enough, comfortably, to fit the exact same speaker as your mains, at the same height. That would be ideal. Doesn't get any better. I'd put the components anywhere else, hidden, closet, wherever. Monoprice 35' HDMI is about $40. A URC rf remote replete with blaster is about $75. No distracting lights, no components in-between speakers to ruin imaging, clean look in my opinion. Its been my "rant" of the year... :cool:

I can't because my screen is not acoustically transparent.

I think you are really on to something regarding speaker height relative to the TV. I also have a flat panel... 42" plasma. I found that I preferred the sound of dialog when running just in 2-channel mode. I think this was mostly because the center speaker was below the flat panel, while the main speakers' height (tweeters/mids) was close to middle of the screen. This is even after I adjusted the center delay settings in my Anthem to compensate for the center placement. That said, I agree that it would be good to have a good center speaker... this just adds to the complexity of the setup. I could look at an active center, I guess.

I am leaning more towards just having a set of main speakers that soundstage well enough that I do not miss the center.

Cool idea on adding an earthquake under the couch... might be something I look at if the sub doesn't fit in the new place.

Reading through the shootout, it looks like the Panasonic did a great job on the video tests. Since I am relying on internal DACs in my new setup, I was thinking the audio SQ of the Pioneers should be better. Did you pick up a blu-ray player yet?

krugorg, its not just the even height that allows for the best panning, and what I imagine to be subtle shifts in energy from side to side, even with dialogue included, its the actual best possible timbre match as well. That is, when you get the identical speaker. Its also the vertical cabinet that is beneficial for horizontally dispersing. However, in a smaller place, Im sure front and center viewers are fine regardless. In a nutshell, I believe phantom would actually sound better for many people.

The reasons why are that horizontal speakers seem to be all too commonly found shoved in a cabinet with reflections galore. Or too low to floor (like with me) where the midbass reflections make the freq's where dialogue resides to be much more difficult to discern. (I've helped this out a lot by placing my center on a beefy acoustical panel). Also, center speakers sometimes are just tiny compared to towers, and then there's that whole lobing issue with the horiz MTM design.

I recently set my brother's HTIB (which I gave to him) to stereo. He and his GF were surprised at how much better it sounds without the center. MTM horiz has such terrible off-axis response, whether mostly to lobing or not. Its on top of the cabinet, but still lower than the mains, and Im sure there are still reflective issues.

I've been using a Panasonic BD-30 that I got last year. its been working very smoothly for me, but I can't say the same for all owners. FW update was difficult because there were issues with my newly installed Vista at the time. I only updated once ever with the only reason being to fix the -5db cut in the LFE. I've had only one probelmatic viewing ever on it, out of MANY viewings, and that was at the end of "Sunshine". I haven't watched it again since the update.

Panny is a pretty good brand of BD to stick with. I believe they might own most of the patents associated with BD as well. However, they are known to have very poor SD upconversion/scaling. The color is definitely different as opposed to my HDA35 HD-DVD player, and the latter is definitely better for SD.

The BD-30 can only bitsream the hidef codecs. I have zero interest in BD live or profile 2.0 so I'm happy as a bug. Check thisdeal (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=pe_20890_10373810_as_img_2/?docId=1000279241) out, if it fits your needs.

Also, many persons are waiting on Oppo to see what they bring out. Im sure its all speculative until they do. If you are not going with a PS3, Id go with the BD-50 out of the tested group above, if only for being the only player to pass all tests, and still being faster to load than some others. Again, don't expect quality SD conversion.

Anyone have any insight regarding the LFE information? I also have a 2.1 system used primarily for music. However, during movies, the subwoofer does not seem to have the impact it should for a 12" driver.

My Blu-Ray system consists of: PS3 > Bel Canto DAC > Musical Fidelity Integrated > Main Speakers + Sub (Vienna Acoustics Shoenberg Series).