hi all. i just put a new bulb in my hc1500 and was wondering how best to to run the pj? i could of sworn someone once told me that i should run the projector in standard, not low mode for the first 100 hours (i normally use low). anyways, i'd appreciate some of your thoughts as to what i should do. thanks.

That is sound advice you were given.

I ran my AE700 on high mode for 3000 hours without a problem -- the bulb never broke.

I ran my AE700 on high mode for 3000 hours without a problem -- the bulb never broke.

I think he was trying to avoid having his lamp flicker...

Break in any new bulb at its maximum efficiency wattage:lumens ratio for about 150 hours, so for a projector thats standard mode.

i ran my old sanyo bulb always on low and i got about 4000 hrs on the thing, never did any break in, think its a crock of $#%^ if you ask me, you either will get a good bulb that lasts or you wont

actually thats not true. A carefull breakin will be very rewarding. When a bulb is properly broken in, it gives you a bulb that has better color spectrum, better lumen rating, longer life, and is much more reliable in that it wont turn off randomly, and it wont flicker. Vapor bulbs are very sensitive.

Wow, i didnt know this.

ive run mine in the low mode for about 115 hours already. whoops. should i switch to normal mode for a while now? or since ive already put this many hours on would it do no good?

Just keep it in low.

> When a bulb is properly broken in, it gives you a bulb that has better color spectrum, better lumen rating, longer life, and is much more reliable

Care to back that up with any kind of citation?

I have flicker and In-focus states to run it in HIGH for XX hours to try to remedy it. It has to do with the way the lamps work and wear over time.

I may run my new PJ in bright mode initially to try to insure that I don't get this - plus I'll buy a bulb warranty.

> When a bulb is properly broken in, it gives you a bulb that has better color spectrum, better lumen rating, longer life, and is much more reliable

Care to back that up with any kind of citation?

I have done many experiments myself, and have read many articles on HID bulbs. Go to lumenlab.com and go through some threads on the metal halide bulbs. They are very simular to the bulbs in projectors, and they require a very specific temerpature to start burning and vaporizing the gases inside the bulb. That is why on start up these bulbs require a huge amount of wattage to get going, and then a specific wattage to maintain running. It is much better for a bulb to over-drive it then to underdrive it, as usualy the only damage done when over-driving is a shorter life span. When a projector is in low mode, its just lowering the wattage being given to the bulb, thus under-driving it. Under-driving a bulb can hurt it in that it will cause flickering and an unreliable bulb in the long run. I have concluded this from tests run by myself, and there are also threads on lumenlab.com that will help clear things up for people who dont understand how a HID bulb works.

The pressure and temperature in the SHP and UHP lamps in projectors are much much higher than in the HID bulbs used in DIY PJs. If you underdrive an SHP / UHP they aren't going to light. Seems to me the ECO mode is more like normal and the High mode is the overdrive, kind of like overclocking a cpu. I have not seen anything here in this forum about a break-in for PJ lamps.

I used many 175w-400w metal halide lamps for reef tanks in the past and they do not require any "special" break-in for proper running, color spectrum or lifespan....just takes some time to fully break-in.

So these lamps must work differently.

Are you suggesting that "high" modes are better than standard(normal) and low(eco)?

Good point about never seeing this before - I've been here for 7 years.

It's low-n-go for me.

Going to be break-in the beer can now.

The high mode helps fix flicker buy burning the lamp in a single location as opposed to 2 locations (which can happen while running in low mod I guess)

Running a lamp is high/normal mode WILL fix lamp flicker. Lamp flicker happens from uneven surfaced electrodes. Running the lamp is high/normal mode eats away at the uneven surface sections and smooths them out, giving a flicker free even surface to create an arc. But this is only a testament to how much higher wattage loads eat away at the electrodes faster, rather than being beneficial.
"When a bulb is properly broken in, it gives you a bulb that has better color spectrum, better lumen rating, longer life, and is much more reliable"
Is a load of crock. You may have heard around at communities that this may be true, but its not. It akin to all those audio "tweaks" that you hear from similar communities. The pressure is mainly what the color spectrum is derived from (along with the gases). Wattage does not. If the minimum wattage is kept up by the ballast to keep the arc going then only downside to running the lamps in eco mode is that the electrodes can, and often do, become uneven, creating flicker.

Wow, i didnt know this.

ive run mine in the low mode for about 115 hours already. whoops. should i switch to normal mode for a while now? or since ive already put this many hours on would it do no good?

If your lamp is not flickering you don't need to do anything.

Running a lamp is high/normal mode WILL fix lamp flicker. Lamp flicker happens from uneven surfaced electrodes. Running the lamp is high/normal mode eats away at the uneven surface sections and smooths them out, giving a flicker free even surface to create an arc. But this is only a testament to how much higher wattage loads eat away at the electrodes faster, rather than being beneficial.
"When a bulb is properly broken in, it gives you a bulb that has better color spectrum, better lumen rating, longer life, and is much more reliable"
Is a load of crock. You may have heard around at communities that this may be true, but its not. It akin to all those audio "tweaks" that you hear from similar communities. The pressure is mainly what the color spectrum is derived from (along with the gases). Wattage does not. If the minimum wattage is kept up by the ballast to keep the arc going then only downside to running the lamps in eco mode is that the electrodes can, and often do, become uneven, creating flicker.

Im sorry but wattage completely has to do with color spectrum. If you overdrive a bulb, the color temperature will go down, if oyu under-drive a bulb, it will increase, thus changing the color spectrum. Go to projectorreviews.com and check out the color temperature readings he does on high and low bulb modes. On some projectors they are significantly different. I never said that a UHP or a SHP is a MH bulb, I said they are very simular in how they work, by creating an arc. Everyhting I mentioned in my last post was from self-done experiments, and experiments done by very knowledgeable people at LL. They dont deal wiht just MH bulbs. I think almost every single different type of HID bulb has been used and discused in LL, as thats what they mainly focus on.

Im sorry but wattage completely has to do with color spectrum. If you overdrive a bulb, the color temperature will go down, if oyu under-drive a bulb, it will increase, thus changing the color spectrum. Go to projectorreviews.com and check out the color temperature readings he does on high and low bulb modes. On some projectors they are significantly different. I never said that a UHP or a SHP is a MH bulb, I said they are very simular in how they work, by creating an arc. Everyhting I mentioned in my last post was from self-done experiments, and experiments done by very knowledgeable people at LL. They dont deal wiht just MH bulbs. I think almost every single different type of HID bulb has been used and discused in LL, as thats what they mainly focus on.
Can you provide a link? After some quick googleing i can't seem to find an article there specifically on the subject.

I've read that the electrodes can be uneven when the lamp is manufactured, and to prevent flicker you should run it in normal mode for 60-100 hours. I'll see if I can find the post - I'm not sure if it was in the under $3000 forum or not (or on AVS for that matter), and I haven't researched the validity of the claim, but it sounds plausible and certainly won't hurt the OP's PJ to do so...although he could run it in low and switch to normal if it starts flickering...

And you can give this (http://www.projectorlampsource.com/pdf/uhp.pdf) a read. The gases, combined with the pressure are more important for deriving the color spectrum than the wattage, as long as the wattage is high enough to create a stabilized arc.

I've read that the electrodes can be uneven when the lamp is manufactured, and to prevent flicker you should run it in normal mode for 60-100 hours. I'll see if I can find the post - I'm not sure if it was in the under $3000 forum or not (or on AVS for that matter), and I haven't researched the validity of the claim, but it sounds plausible and certainly won't hurt the OP's PJ to do so...although he could run it in low and switch to normal if it starts flickering...
Sounds entirely plausible to me. Though, i still see no reason for not running it in eco to start, unless the op notices flickering occuring.

I would be interested to see which PJs showed a color shift when changing the lamp power level because there are zenon arc lamps as well as the mercury arc lamps. Color shifting would make ISF calibration a longer process and you would need to have four ISF modes, not two, for the ECO and HIGH modes. I'd have to venture the color shift is rare and limited to certain types of lamps.

I dont have time to go through the thousands of LL pages to find all the bulb experiments rite now, but I will go through it later tonight and post different links of what peoples experiments have concluded, including my own. Im not trying to argue with you or anything so please lets not start a fllame war but I am just telling you what I personaly have experienced, and what people with 10's of years of experiences have said.

I dont have time to go through the thousands of LL pages to find all the bulb experiments rite now, but I will go through it later tonight and post different links of what peoples experiments have concluded, including my own. Im not trying to argue with you or anything so please lets not start a fllame war but I am just telling you what I personaly have experienced, and what people with 10's of years of experiences have said.
Unless they have accurate EM spectrum readings, i wouldn't bother. Unless you stick with hard evidence discussions like these go nowhere (again, comparable to the audio realm of things when talking about things like wire gauges...etc).
I'm not trying to be argumentative myself. If lamps do make a radical spectrum change when going from normal to eco, i would be interested. But, i also am only interested in hard evidence, otherwise the discussion is useless.

Im not trying to argue with you or anything so please lets not start a fllame war but I am just telling you what I personally have experienced, and what people with 10's of years of experiences have said.

No problem, me either. I'll look around on Art's website again and see where that color shift info is. Like I said, I'm interested.

> I have done many experiments myself

Please give a citation from a reliable source if you can. If the claims have a basis in facts, there should be similar "break-in" advice from, for example, the makers of these lamps or projector makers. There is nothing on Philip's web site and I've never come accross anything concerning "break-in" in any projector's manual so far that concurs with our claims. Self-proclaimed expertise by unspecified experiments doesn't cut it for me.

> have read many articles on HID bulbs

There is certainly some interesting technical information concerning UHP lamps on the net (for example at freepatentsonline.com, like http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1076478.html) but I have never come accross anything that agrees in any form with the "break-in" claims above (creating better color spectrum, better lumen rating, longer life).

> It is much better for a bulb to over-drive it then to underdrive it, as usualy the only damage done when over-driving is a shorter life span.

This kind of reasoning seems to require beverages ;)

> Under-driving a bulb can hurt it in that it will cause flickering

Arc jumping is an inherent characteristic of arc lamps, it occurs because of the electrodes' changing shape and surface roughness. The ballast makers try to deal with it electronically and the PJ makers try to reduce the effect with lens array integrators. This topic has little to do with your improving-color-by-break-in claim, improving-longevity-by-break-in claim etc.

I have never heard of " bulb break in " either. I always use the low power settings ( when available ) and have never had a problem yet. The tip for fixing a flickering bulb is a good one to try though!!

well my projector looks good enough to me, so i guess ill have to settle with the bad color spectrum i have, ha

In no way would you have a "bad" color spectrum if you break in a bulb wrong, it just wont be "as good" as a properly broken in bulb, and you probably would not notice it without the use of tools to test the color spectrum. However, I am a perfectionist and I would probably notice somthing like that.

> it just wont be "as good" as a properly broken in bulb

Citation needed - if you didn't just pull that out of your hat. And I don't mean some dubious forum comments but a trustworty source. Until then: What about stopping giving others unsound, made-up, hearsay advice? The very least that several hundred hours of supposed "break in" at high power settings will do is put unnecessary stess on panels and polarizers. That's especially bad if you have just exchanged the lamp on an older projector. The next thing that might happen is that you see some blue cloud. Now what would THAT do to the color spectrum?

I think he was trying to avoid having his lamp flicker...


The OP never mentioned anything about lamp flicker... :rolleyes: But I will mention I had lamp flicker on my Mitsubishi HC3000 at around 100 or 200 hours so I switched to normal mode for several hours and then back to low lamp mode. It hasn't flickered at all since and I have over 1000 hours now on my lamp.

Lamp Flicker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To understand lamp flicker, you need to know a little about how mercury arc lamps work. First of all, there is no filament (a thin, typically tungsten wire) inside of an arc lamp. Instead, there are two tungsten electrodes spaced a small distance apart (called the arc gap) in a mercury vapor. When the lamp strikes, this gap is bridged by a plasma arc. This plasma arc, running at over 7000 degrees Celsius, is the light source of the projection system. Over time, the plasma arc slowly burns away the electrodes, causing the gap to get larger and the projector to get dimmer (the smaller the arc the better the lamp reflector collects the light). This burning also causes the electrodes to become smooth and this smoothness leads to a tendency for the arc to move around, jumping from spot to spot as it tries to find its least energy point. Plasma arcs are “lazy” and always hunt for the smallest distance between the electrodes to conserve energy. As the electrodes wear back, there can exist situations where there are two such places on the electrodes. The jumping back and forth between these two places is known as arc-jump, and is the predominant form of lamp flicker that will be seen in our products.

Lamp flicker takes the form of a brightening and darkening of the image at irregular intervals. This issue can be confused with some copy protection methods on DVDs and video tapes which cause a brightening and darkening at regular intervals. If you think you are seeing lamp flicker, the best way to make sure is to confirm that it still occurs when watching the projector’s internally generated blank screen (push the blank button on the remote), and that way you know it is not in your source. Also, if you occasionally see very quick flashes of light in the image similar to a strobe effect, then this is probably not lamp flicker.

All currently available ScreenPlay projectors have circuitry inside to reduce or eliminate lamp flicker. This circuitry varies the current to the lamp in such a way that the smoothing of the electrodes is interrupted, so that lamp flicker is almost totally eliminated. However, even though the probability for lamp flicker is reduced, it still can occur in rare situations.

For the ScreenPlay 4805, if you observe lamp flicker, there are a number of things you can do.

1. Wait. Once the electrodes burn back a little more the lamp flicker should go away.

2. Go to high power mode. Changing the power setting of the projector will usually cause the arc to stabilize because the arc will take a slightly different shape due to the mercury convection changes around the arc. If you leave the projector at this power setting for a number of hours, the electrodes will be reshaped slightly and the lowest energy point will move. Once it moves, then you can return to low power and the flicker will be gone.

3. Magnetic fields and gravity also affect the arc, so moving the projector, turning it upside down, or even putting a magnet against it can stabilize the arc in a different location. Again, leaving it in this way for a while will allow you to use it while the electrodes reshape themselves.

4. If the lamp is within warranty, InFocus will replace it.

__________________
Bob Williams

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5820302#post5820302


The above is from Bob Williams, an ex-Infocus engineer who now designs pj's for Planar.

> it just wont be "as good" as a properly broken in bulb

Citation needed - if you didn't just pull that out of your hat. And I don't mean some dubious forum comments but a trustworty source. Until then: What about stopping giving others unsound, made-up, hearsay advice? The very least that several hundred hours of supposed "break in" at high power settings will do is put unnecessary stess on panels and polarizers. That's especially bad if you have just exchanged the lamp on an older projector. The next thing that might happen is that you see some blue cloud. Now what would THAT do to the color spectrum?

Sorry but are you asking me to give you a source from somone else? How does that make any sense? I'm telling everyone waht I have experienced, and what I have read from lumenlab.com, which is an extremely trustworthy, age-old site that has people with many, many, many years of experience. Take it or leave it by all means. It does not matter to me. Whats the difference from giving you a source to some article or report done by some guy, or telling you from my own experience?:confused: Heres a site you can read, http://lumenlab.com/forums/ , go through the all of the forums and read whats going on.:)
About the polarizers, epson and all the other companies should test their products and see how they hold up being used how they would be by the general public. Those organic LCD's and poorly designed polarizers shouldn't be in the projector if they can't take the heat. IMHO, if your worried about your LCD panels going to crap by changing the bulb, its time for you to get another projector, preferably one with inorganic LCD panels, or a DLP if your not RBE sensitive.

> Whats the difference from giving you a source to some article or report done by some guy, or telling you from my own experience?

Credibility, of course. A quote from a manufacturer of UHP lamps or projectors or a reliable, scientific source (for example a thesis or patent) that backs your wild claims would go a long way with me. UHP lamps have been examined in great detail by manufactures and third parties and there are interesting, lengthy, scientific articles concerning these lamps on the web. They don't mention the glorious break-in effects you claim to have observed. Even by simple logical reasoning, in absence of supporting literature, the claims just make no sense to me. Why would putting unnecessary stress on a lamp improve its life, rather then shorten it? Why would that stress improve the color spectrum? Sounds like bollocks to me.

The OP never mentioned anything about lamp flicker... :rolleyes: But I will mention I had lamp flicker on my Mitsubishi HC3000 at around 100 or 200 hours so I switched to normal mode for several hours and then back to low lamp mode. It hasn't flickered at all since and I have over 1000 hours now on my lamp.

Alright, please tell me any other possible reason he might have been told to run his PJ in normal mode for the first 100 hours. Maybe he wasn't alluding to lamp flicker but the person he's referring to sure was.

Interestingly (and I don't know how relative this may be), but my projector would dim after running for about a minute...Like going from Standard to eco mode. Then just the other day, after playing xbox for a while, when I turned the game system off, my lamp flickered, went into fault and now it won't come back on. I'm not sure how turning the xbox off ultimately killed it...Should a projector be turned off before the source?

I doubt your XBOX had anything to do with it. I'd guess it's just a coincidence.

It seems all the Sharp's run in normal when they start up for a min or 2 and then dim to eco. I think its to help reduce the chance of flicker issues. Both my 10x and dt500 do it. Could also be to help with warmup time? Not sure why but it seems it was designed to work this way.

It seems all the Sharp's run in normal when they start up for a min or 2 and then dim to eco. I think its to help reduce the chance of flicker issues. Both my 10x and dt500 do it. Could also be to help with warmup time? Not sure why but it seems it was designed to work this way.

Thanks for the info. At least I know it wasn't a lamp issue...in that instance anyway.