I have been reading on this forum for the past few months gathering info and opinions on the three sets I'm considering,the Panasonic 58PZ800U,Panasonic 58PZ850U and the Pioneer Elite Pro151. I needed to make a decision soon because the guy who does my calibrations, Eliab from Avical is going to be in my area next month. I spent around three hours this past saturday at a Best Buy with a Magnolia room observing the Pioneer Pro151. I adjusted the set using CNET's settings as a base and a Pioneeer BDP-51 for content. I brought four Blu-Ray discs to view,Casino Royale,Hellboy,The Searchers and King Arthur. The 151 is a very impressive set. In 1080p/24fps at 72hz there was no jitter/flicker and the picture was incredible with deep blacks and beautiful colors. I could hear the buzzing that some have complained about but it was very faint and would not apply with the volume level I normally use at home.
I spent around four hours sunday at a local store of which my friend is the manager looking at both the Panasonic's which were fed with Sony BDP-S350's. I used the same four disc's and again used the settings from CNET's reviews as a base. I found the two to be extremely close with deep blacks (though not quite as deep as the Pioneers) but actually preferred the 850. I understand the 800 is supposed to have the more accurate colors but I preferred the slightly extra pop of the 850. The 1080p/24fps mode is very important to me and I was anxious to see how they performed after reading all the comments about jitter/flicker in the 48hz setting. It was there and very noticeable on both sets. It was very pronounced in the outdoor scenes of both Casino Royale and the Searchers. It was not nearly as noticeable on Hellboy in some of the night scenes, but it was still there. Changing the setting to 60hz eliminated all flickering. It sort of defeats the purpose of the 24fps mode as you are still using 2:3 pulldown but the picture did look darn good. I really like the Pioneer but can't justify the price difference with the Panasonic's. I'm not going to pay 70% more for maybe a 10% better picture IMHO.I have made up my mind to go with the 58PZ850U. The flicker issue does bother me but the 850 does a good enough job with 2:3 pulldown that I know I will still be very happy.

James
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Let's put it this way... most 1st time buyer's, myself included, who buy a Panasonic PDP go with Pioneer the next time they buy... not the other way around.

If you can afford a PRO-151FD go for it. Currently, this is the best TV your money can buy.

(signed: a Panasonic 50PX50U & a Pioneer PRO-150FD owner)

one major flaw in your testing: you test the panels at the store which lighting will definitely far brighter than any one of your rooms.

if you can afford a pro-151fd go for it. Currently, this is the best tv your money can buy.

[]

+10

Awesome comparison between the 3, Thanks for the info. Pioneer is hard to justify especially for a first time buyer. Personally I'm looking at the 5020 or 800u because of the absurd price of the Pro151. Still the 800u is certainly cheaper than the 5020. It may not have the same level of black levels buy the Pany has the THX cert and more accurate colors not to mention more tweakable settings. Has their been any problems with jitter/flickering and noise in the 5020? Thanks.

whats the difference between the 800u and the 80u? im thinking about getting a panasonic 50 plasma and want 1080p

Awesome comparison between the 3, Thanks for the info. Pioneer is hard to justify especially for a first time buyer. Personally I'm looking at the 5020 or 800u because of the absurd price of the Pro151. Still the 800u is certainly cheaper than the 5020. It may not have the same level of black levels buy the Pany has the THX cert and more accurate colors not to mention more tweakable settings. Has their been any problems with jitter/flickering and noise in the 5020? Thanks.

Hey, the 141 was my first HDTV. :)

whats the difference between the 800u and the 80u? im thinking about getting a panasonic 50 plasma and want 1080p

800 is THX certified and has been more popular IMO overall

... and want 1080p

just like buying a digital camera, pixel count doesn't really matter. There are more pressing issues such as motion resolution (some 1080p TV produces as low as 480 lines of resolution when the object is moving), colour rendition, real-life contrast ratio, ability to produce black, ability to produce white, reflection of the screen etc. Pixel count is at the bottom of the list of importance.

i couldnt imagine any set having more settings options than the 151 for whoever stated that.

is it safe to assume the panasonics have more accurate color than pios? is this an out of the box statement and can pios color inaccuracy be corrected with the plethora of settings or is it undefeatable?

it's just out-of-the-box statement. I can calibrate my 111 (50" version of 151) to be closer to D65 than the 800U (I calibrated the 800U for my buddy's store) -- both without going to the service menu.

Let's put it this way... most 1st time buyer's, myself included, who buy a Panasonic PDP go with Pioneer the next time they buy... not the other way around.

If you can afford a PRO-151FD go for it. Currently, this is the best TV your money can buy.

(signed: a Panasonic 50PX50U & a Pioneer PRO-150FD owner)

There is a slight misunderstanding here. I am not a first time buyer. My first HD set was a Toshiba 50HX81 RPTV that I was able to tweak a bit myself via the service menu before having it professionally calibrated. In fact I still have that set. My current main set is a Panasonic 50PX60U plasma which again was calibrated by Eliab from Avical who we see on many of the forums here. Great guy BTW.


one major flaw in your testing: you test the panels at the store which lighting will definitely far brighter than any one of your rooms.

Hold on there. I tried to shorten my first post so I did leave out a few details. I was not able to control the ambient light with the Pioneer but the sets in the Magnolia room are not in as bad a spot as the ones in the general store area. I did comment on them having their best set in the worst spot of that particular room. I was told that PRO151D has to be at the entrance at every Magnolia room nationwide.
With the Panasonic's I had complete control of the lighting in the room they were displayed. There were no overhead lights on at all. In fact the only light in the room was from the Ideal-Lume rear bias light I brought with me that I use on my current set. I moved it behind both sets at various times.
My reason for starting this thread was to possibly help people who may not be as insane as me and read the post for these sets in the owners group threads which as we speak totals somewhere in the neighborhood of 8000 posts. Yep I read pretty much every single one. I can afford either though some out there unfortunately cannot. I do think the Pioneer is a better set but I just can't see it as $2800.00 better. Which is about the difference between the two based on what I would have to pay.

James

James, thanks for informing me. I never know how Magnolias look like (we don't have Magnolias at BB here in Canada).

I agree with you, however. When people asked me which TV to buy if they can't afford or don't want to spend that kind of money ( or like my parents, can't appreciate the difference in quality), I always advice them for Panasonic (and Sharp if they're adamant in getting an LCD as opposed to plasma)

one major flaw in your testing: you test the panels at the store which lighting will definitely far brighter than any one of your rooms.

Actually the Best Buy (Magnolia) near me has their plasma displays in a completely dark room. When I went there to shop for a Blu-ray player the plasma room where the only Panasonic Blu-ray player was, was so dark I was not even able to view the player at all, only its picture quality. I ended up going down the street to CC so I could actually see the player itself.

You might consider Panasonic's Professional model line, these are my personal favorite displays. They offer Panasonics best picture quality and I think offer the best for a home theater.

i couldnt imagine any set having more settings options than the 151 for whoever stated that.


I was referring to the 5020. It has much less options for tweaking the video settings than the PRO-151. And are their any problems with jitter/flickering and noise in the 5020?

Awesome comparison between the 3, Thanks for the info. Pioneer is hard to justify especially for a first time buyer. Personally I'm looking at the 5020 or 800u because of the absurd price of the Pro151. Still the 800u is certainly cheaper than the 5020. It may not have the same level of black levels buy the Pany has the THX cert and more accurate colors not to mention more tweakable settings. Has their been any problems with jitter/flickering and noise in the 5020? Thanks.

COming from someone who has owned both...even though the 800u may have more accurate colors on paper in THX mode, they certainly do not look like it. To me THX was way too washed out. I have the 5020 now and it just has so much more punch. I'll take slightly inaccurate colors for better contrast anyday because to my eyes, the 5020 colors are a lot better than the 800u. In regards to the flicker...I have not seen any on the 5020, whereas the 800u had terrible flicker in 48hz. If you watch a bright movie you will have a headache instantly. Dark movies are fine but bright is terrible.

I appreciate the good advice. I'm going to go and check it out for noise at my local BestBuy.

There is a slight misunderstanding here. I am not a first time buyer. My first HD set was a Toshiba 50HX81 RPTV that I was able to tweak a bit myself via the service menu before having it professionally calibrated. In fact I still have that set. My current main set is a Panasonic 50PX60U plasma which again was calibrated by Eliab from Avical who we see on many of the forums here. Great guy BTW.I still enjoy watching the 50PX50U too, but my PRO-150FD is a much superior display. As an experienced PDP owner you know our tendency is to strive to improve our HT experience by upgrading to better electronic components during each buying cycle.

The PRO-151FD is priced higher than the 58PZ850U but the extra cost includes: a bigger display, better black levels, more features, superior video processing, correct implementation of 1080p24fps content with no flicker and last but not least the Pure mode picture setting.

If you see the jaw-dropping image a Kuro Elite TV renders with 1080p24fps BD (hint: buy a PS3) using the Pure picture setting no other display will be able to meet your expectations.

If you can afford to spend the extra money for a PRO-151FD, you will own the best of this class of PDPs and not be saying "what if" a year or two from now.

After a year of ownership, there is no buyer's remorse for this PRO-150FD owner.

I am still curious about how the black levels give that much of an edge to a tv
in a regular viewing environment at home.

Unless you are in a pitch black room I doubt you will notice much difference between a tv with absolute best black levels and one without. If you can provide a pitch black room
may as well go with a 100+ inch projector and enjoy 1080p fully.

Contrast levels are highly exaggerated by manufacturers and I think the best eyes can only see about a 1:100 contrast ratio.

I think the picture quality is depended on the following factors with % on how much effect they have

1) Source - 50%. A good source signal at about a 10-12 feet viewing distance will
look excellent in a 480p, 720p and 1080p plasma (Eg: Blu-ray at 1080p)

2) Video Processor and Scaling - 30%. Now for the signals that are from poor source
I would spend extra money to get the best deinterlacer/scaler to improve the signal
Lousy signals with a good processor like Faroudja/Silicon Image look a lot better on
a 480p plasma than 720p/1080p

3) Color Decoder - 10%. Most color decoder's on tv's have a red push which prevents
accurate colors from being shown. Probably can be correct using the service menu. One
of the best color decoders used to be in the Toshiba Cinema Ceries CRT's

4) Black level - 10%. This percentage could vary between 10 and 15% depending on
how dark the viewing environment is. In a normal viewing environment with a 60W
bulb on I doubt you will see much difference in picture quality being contributed by
black level

I am still curious about how the black levels give that much of an edge to a tv
in a regular viewing environment at home.

Unless you are in a pitch black room I doubt you will notice much difference between a tv with absolute best black levels and one without. If you can provide a pitch black room
may as well go with a 100+ inch projector and enjoy 1080p fully.

Contrast levels are highly exaggerated by manufacturers and I think the best eyes can only see about a 1:100 contrast ratio.

I think the picture quality is depended on the following factors with % on how much effect they have

1) Source - 50%. A good source signal at about a 10-12 feet viewing distance will
look excellent in a 480p, 720p and 1080p plasma (Eg: Blu-ray at 1080p)

2) Video Processor and Scaling - 30%. Now for the signals that are from poor source
I would spend extra money to get the best deinterlacer/scaler to improve the signal
Lousy signals with a good processor like Faroudja/Silicon Image look a lot better on
a 480p plasma than 720p/1080p

3) Color Decoder - 10%. Most color decoder's on tv's have a red push which prevents
accurate colors from being shown. Probably can be correct using the service menu. One
of the best color decoders used to be in the Toshiba Cinema Ceries CRT's

4) Black level - 10%. This percentage could vary between 10 and 15% depending on
how dark the viewing environment is. In a normal viewing environment with a 60W
bulb on I doubt you will see much difference in picture quality being contributed by
black level

You can see the difference between the black levels, even in a moderately lit room. The blacker blacks of the Pioneer clearly make a difference in overall detail you see. I own both a new Pio Elite and a Panny 800U and can tell you the difference in black levels and its contribution to overall picture quality was obvious to me.

I am still curious about how the black levels give that much of an edge to a tv
in a regular viewing environment at home.

Unless you are in a pitch black room I doubt you will notice much difference between a tv with absolute best black levels and one without. If you can provide a pitch black room
may as well go with a 100+ inch projector and enjoy 1080p fully.

I think the picture quality is depended on the following factors with % on how much effect they have

4) Black level - 10%. This percentage could vary between 10 and 15% depending on
how dark the viewing environment is. In a normal viewing environment with a 60W
bulb on I doubt you will see much difference in picture quality being contributed by
black level

If you can get truly deep and accurate blacks it sets off every other color on the screen and increases perceived depth of field. I think it is very important. It is similar in theory to the whole point of proper grayscale tracking. If your whites are off every color is off. Remember the old Sony Trinitone crt sets. The whites were bluish and thus every color was inaccurate. Proper lighting also affects black output on a set. My Panasonic 50PX60U had deeper blacks last night than the Pioneer Elite 151D I viewed on saturday. Why? Inability to control the lighting at Best Buy versus having an Ideal-Lume rear bias light as the only light in the room. I can only imagine how the Pioneer would have looked last night.


I still enjoy watching the 50PX50U too, but my PRO-150FD is a much superior display. As an experienced PDP owner you know our tendency is to strive to improve our HT experience by upgrading to better electronic components during each buying cycle.

The PRO-151FD is priced higher than the 58PZ850U but the extra cost includes: a bigger display, better black levels, more features, superior video processing, correct implementation of 1080p24fps content with no flicker and last but not least the Pure mode picture setting.

If you see the jaw-dropping image a Kuro Elite TV renders with 1080p24fps BD (hint: buy a PS3) using the Pure picture setting no other display will be able to meet your expectations.

If you can afford to spend the extra money for a PRO-151FD, you will own the best of this class of PDPs and not be saying "what if" a year or two from now.

After a year of ownership, there is no buyer's remorse for this PRO-150FD owner.

You stated my dilemma in a nutshell. I know the Pioneer is a better set but am having a hard time justifying the expense. I'm looking to replace my four year old Mac Powerbook and the new MacBook Pro I'm looking at is around the price difference between the Pioneer and either Panasonic. I actually own the PS3 and did own a Panasonic BD30 which I traded in for a Sony BDP-550S on sunday. I set it up last night and all I can say is wow!! I used the same four discs I used with my testing over the weekend. I got so caught up in the Searchers I ended up watching the whole film. That is one of the best blu-ray's out for beautiful Technicolor and great scenery. My calibrated Panasonic 50PX60U is still putting out a great picture. You can definitely see what a proper calibration does.

James

Hi kngelv,
Your last sentence says it all. Irrespective of absolute best black levels,
properly calibrated displays (with good greyscale tracking) will all be excellent from the average viewing distance of 10-12 feet irrespective of resolution (480p, 720p. 1080p).
I would give the 480p an edge for crappy signals.

Now how best the display tracks the 6500K greyscale depends on the display type and
electronics.

You stated my dilemma in a nutshell. I know the Pioneer is a better set but am having a hard time justifying the expense. I'm looking to replace my four year old Mac Powerbook and the new MacBook Pro I'm looking at is around the price difference between the Pioneer and either Panasonic. I actually own the PS3 and did own a Panasonic BD30 which I traded in for a Sony BDP-550S on sunday.Now you're making "optivity" jealous. :p

Hey, I'm all "geek" all the time too. :D

I've got a WXP-Pro workstation @ home and a Windows Vista wireless laptop. I would like to upgrade this equipment but for the time being I'm trying to hold off until Bill Gates will bless HDCP for PC. ;)

My current priority is to upgrade my sound system and the TX-NR906 looks like a winner to me. Unfortunately there isn't much WAF for this acquisition, but I'm hoping to finagle something for Christmas. :)

Please do not get me started on speakers. :eek:

i couldnt imagine any set having more settings options than the 151 for whoever stated that.

is it safe to assume the panasonics have more accurate color than pios? is this an out of the box statement and can pios color inaccuracy be corrected with the plethora of settings or is it undefeatable?

AFAIK, Samsungs 650 series have more controls than even Elites.

having more parameters doesn't mean the TV can be controlled (calibrated) better.

Regardless, as long as the TV has RGB cuts and drives, gamma control, it's enough to get it seriously calibrated. Whether it can get a flat response throughout it's a different story.

Those who feel black levels mean nothing unless you are in a dark enviornment. Go to a BB where the 800u is right above the 5020. The 5020 looks darn good with black levels comparable to an LCD in this bright type enviornment, where the Pannys look completely washed out and gray.

As for CA, post calibration, the 800u can't touch an Elite.

I am still curious about how the black levels give that much of an edge to a tv
in a regular viewing environment at home.

Unless you are in a pitch black room I doubt you will notice much difference between a tv with absolute best black levels and one without. If you can provide a pitch black room
may as well go with a 100+ inch projector and enjoy 1080p fully.

Contrast levels are highly exaggerated by manufacturers and I think the best eyes can only see about a 1:100 contrast ratio.

I think the picture quality is depended on the following factors with % on how much effect they have

1) Source - 50%. A good source signal at about a 10-12 feet viewing distance will
look excellent in a 480p, 720p and 1080p plasma (Eg: Blu-ray at 1080p)

2) Video Processor and Scaling - 30%. Now for the signals that are from poor source
I would spend extra money to get the best deinterlacer/scaler to improve the signal
Lousy signals with a good processor like Faroudja/Silicon Image look a lot better on
a 480p plasma than 720p/1080p

3) Color Decoder - 10%. Most color decoder's on tv's have a red push which prevents
accurate colors from being shown. Probably can be correct using the service menu. One
of the best color decoders used to be in the Toshiba Cinema Ceries CRT's

4) Black level - 10%. This percentage could vary between 10 and 15% depending on
how dark the viewing environment is. In a normal viewing environment with a 60W
bulb on I doubt you will see much difference in picture quality being contributed by
black level


This is incorrect. Black level is the basis of picture quality. If you have unwanted light coming from the panel (a backlight on a lcd, or too much light from the subpixels in a plasma, both producing unwanted white light) it will significantly wash out the colors. Say you are trying to display blue in one third of the screen, red in one third, and black in one third: A plasma with good blacks will shut off more of the un-needed sub-pixel(s), reducing unwanted white light. Likewise, a better lcd will block out more of the backlight that washes out the colors (which is why turning up the brightness too high in lcds hurts contrast). In both these cases colors will appear deeper, and the ability of the display to add more depth is the basis of contrast ratio and apparent sharpness. Black level is universally praised among professional reviewers and calibrators as being the one single element that our eyes can detect the most. People like to think black level must only matter in a dark room (perhaps because they associate 'black' with 'no lighting'), but this is not the case.

In practical terms, blacks level will have a difference on any and every scene. Scenes with sharp changes in color, especially light and dark, will be the most affected. A dark room is best to see this because the picture doesn't have to compete with more unwanted light, but of course a dark room is best for any critical viewing, and anybody serious about HT should watch with the lights turned down at night, and buy some blinds for the day. If you are spending $2000+ on a panel, its the least you can do.

But even in moderately bright lighting, I can assure you there is a difference. When I first got my kuro I placed it side-by-side with my older samsung and compared them in multiple lighting scenarios, including quite bright lighting, and the difference in blacks is apparent across the board. True, it starts to become even more pronounced when you get down to lower light levels but this category still includes a fair amount of artificial light in the room, but no direct sunlight.

Hi Ercc,
As you mention the effects of black level are more dramatic in low light.
That said I was in 6ave this past weekend looking at displays, more specifically comparing panasonic and kuros's. I was hard pressed to notice that much of a difference.

In fact they had a older model 50px75u next to a elite kuro and though the kuro was a bit darker, I liked the gamma response on the 75u better.

Lot of it is personal but for me if I can provide a dark viewing environment I would spend
the extra money on a good 1080p projector to get all the resolution of blu-ray.

For crappy signals especially through compressed cable/satellite where you would probably at best get a 540p signal (after all that compression) money would be well
spent on a good scaler to go along with ideally a 720p plasma or maybe even a 480p
plasma if still available.

I'm about to head out and take one last look at all three displays. I'm leaning heavily toward the Panasonic PZ850U but want to take one last look at the Pioneer Pro151D. I'll be honest the cost is a big factor in my leaning toward the Panasonic especially considering I'm going to pick up a new MacBook Pro on the way home.

James

I'm about to head out and take one last look at all three displays. I'm leaning heavily toward the Panasonic PZ850U but want to take one last look at the Pioneer Pro151D. I'll be honest the cost is a big factor in my leaning toward the Panasonic especially considering I'm going to pick up a new MacBook Pro on the way home.

James

You really cant go wrong and you are doing the right thing letting your eyes do the judging.

if I can provide a dark viewing environment I would spend the extra money on a good 1080p projector to get all the resolution of blu-ray.



whether you're watching blu-ray on a 42" TV, or 50" or 200", as long as the resolujtion is 1920 x 1080, then you will get the full resolution regardless. Resolution has absolutely NOTHING to do with screen size.

I'm getting a bigger TV for my living room.I currently have a 5080 that is pro cal that will go to my bedroom.I'm looking at both elite Sig 141 a panny 65pz.I need more 1st hand comparisons because the only experience i had was of a 58pz850 displaying spider man 3 BD via Ps3 and was in aww of the 850s less then impressive picture compared to my 5080 set.But a big factor may have bin the 850 was calibrated by the owner Iduno LOL. I'm still on the fence. quality is #1 and size #2. ????????????

Does anyone know of ideal places to compare sets in the Montgomery cnty area of P.A.

purchasing a TV that was calibrated god-knows-when and from a room with a different amblient lighting that of yours is almost like buying a TV that's not calibrated. Calibration needs to be repeated every 500-1,000 hours with the actual viewing lighting condition.

purchasing a TV that was calibrated god-knows-when and from a room with a different amblient lighting that of yours is almost like buying a TV that's not calibrated. Calibration needs to be repeated every 500-1,000 hours with the actual viewing lighting condition.

So true! I went yesterday to look at all three sets again before making my final decision. I first put the 850 in Studio mode,the 800 in THX mode and the 151 in the Pure mode. After viewing for five to ten minutes I adjusted using CNET's review settings. In any of these modes the Pioneer was the better set. The blacks were not the thing that stood out the most. I thought the Pioneer had distinctly better video processing than either Panasonic. I mean dramatically so. (How did Panasonic not catch the 24p/48hz flicker problem at the factory?) Here is the funny thing though. When I got home and viewed the same material on my two and a half year old Panasonic 50PX60U it looked better than any of the sets. More accurate colors and a way better depth of field. It just shows how important a calibration is. I have no doubt that any of the new sets would look better than mine after a calibration. It is just shocking at how much room for improvement there is from even the best factory settings. All of the people who argue on this forum on which is the better set without seeing any of these sets calibrated really have no proper frame of reference. I'm sure a calibrated Panasonic would look better than a non-calibrated Pioneer. My calibrator (who has calibrated all three of these sets) tells me that post-calibration the Pioneer Elites are the most accurate sets he has ever seen. Any of us who can afford these should get a calibration or we are not really doing the sets justice. Wondering why they don't come this way from the factory would of course be a whole other question. You would think the Pioneer Elites would come calibrated. Then it truly would be elite.I'm perfectly happy with my current set but desire a larger screen. I'm going to spend the next day or two debating the Pioneer versus waiting for next years NeoPDP sets.

James

to be calibrated at the factory, it means that the TV should be fully pre-aged (broken in) to be stable. You can get the pre-aged, pre-calibrated picture from Pioneer Elite Signature Series panels.

STILL, you will need to calibrate further based on your room lighting condition.

Not quite true. The viewing angle has to be able to be large enough for the user to visually discern the full definition (a more applicable word than resolution). So, either one must sit very close to a small screen or buy a larger screen in order to fully benefit from 1920 x 1080.

DelJ


whether you're watching blu-ray on a 42" TV, or 50" or 200", as long as the resolujtion is 1920 x 1080, then you will get the full resolution regardless. Resolution has absolutely NOTHING to do with screen size.

you only mentioned about, and I quote: "I would spend the extra money on a good 1080p projector to get all the resolution of blu-ray."

Just to get all the pixels showing, you only need a 1920x1080 capable display.

(How did Panasonic not catch the 24p/48hz flicker problem at the factory?)

My thoughts exactly....

I wrestled with the 50" Panny vs Pio earlier this year. In the end, I chose the Panasonic and couldn't be happier.

(How did Panasonic not catch the 24p/48hz flicker problem at the factory?)

My thoughts exactly....

how bad is the pannys flicker with 24p and does it include the 65 because that is a big deal for me:o

how bad is the pannys flicker with 24p and does it include the 65 because that is a big deal for me:o

It is very noticeable on bright outdoor scenes. Not so much on dark indoor scenes. I think the 65 would have the same problem but have not confirmed this.

James

I have been reading on this forum for the past few months gathering info and opinions on the three sets I'm considering,the Panasonic 58PZ800U,Panasonic 58PZ850U and the Pioneer Elite Pro151. I needed to make a decision soon because the guy who does my calibrations, Eliab from Avical is going to be in my area next month. I spent around three hours this past saturday at a Best Buy with a Magnolia room observing the Pioneer Pro151. I adjusted the set using CNET's settings as a base and a Pioneeer BDP-51 for content. I brought four Blu-Ray discs to view,Casino Royale,Hellboy,The Searchers and King Arthur. The 151 is a very impressive set. In 1080p/24fps at 72hz there was no jitter/flicker and the picture was incredible with deep blacks and beautiful colors. I could hear the buzzing that some have complained about but it was very faint and would not apply with the volume level I normally use at home.
I spent around four hours sunday at a local store of which my friend is the manager looking at both the Panasonic's which were fed with Sony BDP-S350's. I used the same four disc's and again used the settings from CNET's reviews as a base. I found the two to be extremely close with deep blacks (though not quite as deep as the Pioneers) but actually preferred the 850. I understand the 800 is supposed to have the more accurate colors but I preferred the slightly extra pop of the 850. The 1080p/24fps mode is very important to me and I was anxious to see how they performed after reading all the comments about jitter/flicker in the 48hz setting. It was there and very noticeable on both sets. It was very pronounced in the outdoor scenes of both Casino Royale and the Searchers. It was not nearly as noticeable on Hellboy in some of the night scenes, but it was still there. Changing the setting to 60hz eliminated all flickering. It sort of defeats the purpose of the 24fps mode as you are still using 2:3 pulldown but the picture did look darn good. I really like the Pioneer but can't justify the price difference with the Panasonic's. I'm not going to pay 70% more for maybe a 10% better picture IMHO.I have made up my mind to go with the 58PZ850U. The flicker issue does bother me but the 850 does a good enough job with 2:3 pulldown that I know I will still be very happy.

James
kngelv is online now Report Post Edit/Delete Message Reply With Quote

I guess you should be checking out this set as well, since you are interested in getting a really great picture:

http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/

Ed