I have been strongly considering a pdp6020 for some time. To do my proper due diligence, I wanted to check out the highly respected Panasonic 800u and 850u. I went to a local dealer and was able to view the display in a darker room with little ambient lighting. I set the 800u to THX mode.

I was surprised to see that the black levels were rather, well, gray as opposed to black. They didn't look like they were in any way comparable to the pioneers. I also got a chance to take a look at the Samsung plasma which I thought to be better than the Panny as well, though didn't quite approach the Pioneer.

So, did I miss something or do something wrong when it comes to the settings, or are these two sets not as close as perhaps I thought? Was it perhaps a bad sample? How close are these sets supposed to be in black level performance?

The 9g has alot more technology than any other plasma for black levels. Next year the difference will be much closer. But right now nothing touches the 9g.

9G are much better regarding black-levels...the Panny's are nowhere close.

Well your assessment holds true under certain conditions. Same source material, optimized settings, as well as same lighting conditions (preferably home location). Although these are hard to overcome. Everyone will choose Samsung over Panasonic or Panasonic over Samsung, while the Kuro's tend to be the slight leaders in picture quality. It boils down to the difference in cost as "value" to the consumer. In most cases, people would say yes and others feel they can save.

Chris

Nothing new to expect thats how great the pioneer's are in black level ahead of everything else out there. so yeah dont expect for this year for the panasonic to be anywhere near the pioneer's.

Just what you saw is what we saw and what we made the upgrade for ( moved my 42" TH-42px75u 2007 model 720p panny to room and bought the PRO-111 for best PQ tv you can get )

I have been strongly considering a pdp6020 for some time. To do my proper due diligence, I wanted to check out the highly respected Panasonic 800u and 850u. I went to a local dealer and was able to view the display in a darker room with little ambient lighting. I set the 800u to THX mode.

I was surprised to see that the black levels were rather, well, gray as opposed to black. They didn't look like they were in any way comparable to the pioneers. I also got a chance to take a look at the Samsung plasma which I thought to be better than the Panny as well, though didn't quite approach the Pioneer.

So, did I miss something or do something wrong when it comes to the settings, or are these two sets not as close as perhaps I thought? Was it perhaps a bad sample? How close are these sets supposed to be in black level performance?

As the owner of a 58" 850U, I have to say that the blacks on this set are very competitive with the Pioneer sets. To my eyes, the Pioneer blacks are darker, but both are nice and "inky." Also, IMO, the Pioneer's entire picture seems somewhat darker than the 850U, so perhaps this is why their blacks appear darker.

The Studio Ref preset on the 850U gives a really nice contrast balance, keeping the blacks nice and dark without dimming the overall picture much at all. Plus, the DCC color toggle gives the colors an extra pop that the THX setting does not on the 800U.

Of course, ultimately, it all comes down to personal taste. For my money, the 850U was by far the best value considering how high the pic quality is for its price. The Pioneer' pic quality is perhaps 10-15% better, but 75% more expensive. So if it's worth a few thousand more to you to say you own a 5-star plasma, then go for it. If you enjoy the feeling of getting a 4-1/2 star plasma at a 3-star price, then go for the 850U, and use the savings to get a professional calibration. :D

As the owner of a 58" 850U, I have to say that the blacks on this set are very competitive with the Pioneer sets. To my eyes, the Pioneer blacks are darker, but both are nice and "inky." Also, IMO, the Pioneer's entire picture seems somewhat darker than the 850U, so perhaps this is why their blacks appear darker.

The Studio Ref preset on the 850U gives a really nice contrast balance, keeping the blacks nice and dark without dimming the overall picture much at all. Plus, the DCC color toggle gives the colors an extra pop that the THX setting does not on the 800U.

Of course, ultimately, it all comes down to personal taste. For my money, the 850U was by far the best value considering how high the pic quality is for its price. The Pioneer' pic quality is perhaps 10-15% better, but 75% more expensive. So if it's worth a few thousand more to you to say you own a 5-star plasma, then go for it. If you enjoy the feeling of getting a 4-1/2 star plasma at a 3-star price, then go for the 850U, and use the savings to get a professional calibration. :D



Your cost difference is way, way off, from what I'm seeing.

Yep way off, AND its not 10/15 % better its more .... beyond the blacks you have the processing that rivals *miss spell?* out board scalers, Excellent Anti reflection/glare and filter for bright scenes durring the day. Among other things.

Oh and the pioneer's are .02 watts on standby and during power is lower then the pannys.

theirs alot more to it and i personaly gotta say from first hand its not 10/15% lol

I also got a chance to take a look at the Samsung plasma which I thought to be better than the Panny as well, though didn't quite approach the Pioneer.

Really? In my side by side comparison I found Panasonic TH-50PZ850U to have deeper blacks than Samsung PN50A650. In a dark room of course.

Regarding Kuro, it is significantly better when it comes to black levels. Especially in very low light (turned off) when you see the deep "gray" levels of the other plasma TVs.

i have a pz800 and yeah the black levels leave a lot to be desired. oddly the blacks look quite a bit darker in vivid than any of the other settings. play something like geometry wars 2 and you'll see what i mean.

i dont understand why panasonic couldnt get the blacks as good in the other modes.

I remember the old frontier days of plasma when I bought my 5 year old pioneer 433cmx .Panasonic then owned black level and you could see the difference in any store.Pioneer had better color but somewhat washed out blacks.I still have the set and still love it but cant wait till next year for my 10g upgrade.

To my eyes, the Pioneer blacks are darker, but both are nice and "inky."

There is a HUGE difference in black level between the Panasonic and the 9G Pioneer. I went to the last flat panel shootout back in July and saw both side by side in a controlled environment. You would not call the Panasonic "inky" when displayed next to the Pioneer 9G. As a matter of fact, the 8G does not look "inky" next to the 9G. The 9G is that much better. I am holding out for a 10G.

I think I have made my decision. :)

6020.

I think I have made my decision. :)

6020.

Can't go wrong with that.

I think I have made my decision. :)

6020.

Congrats!

i have a pz800 and yeah the black levels leave a lot to be desired. oddly the blacks look quite a bit darker in vivid than any of the other settings. play something like geometry wars 2 and you'll see what i mean.

i dont understand why panasonic couldnt get the blacks as good in the other modes.

Reason why you see darker blacks in Dynamic, is because it is in fact giving you deeper blacks, at the expense of crushing all shadow detail.

There isn't a single set that can rival the Pioneers in native contrast, ansi contrast, and on/off contrast. Whats does all of this mean to you? Deeper blacks with great shadow detail, with motion involved.

After seeing an Elite in a store, there's no question they are superior in practically everything. That being said, there was no way I would (or could) shell out 4 grand for a tv, and I am very happy with my pz80.

Bottom line is, Pioneer's are the best plasma around, no question. However, only you can decide if the price increase is worth the improved PQ.

Reason why you see darker blacks in Dynamic, is because it is in fact giving you deeper blacks, at the expense of crushing all shadow detail.

There isn't a single set that can rival the Pioneers in native contrast, ansi contrast, and on/off contrast. Whats does all of this mean to you? Deeper blacks with great shadow detail, with motion involved.

Also it overblows the white level so the darker areas seem darker then they really are. Nothing wrong w/ that except I don't know many people that enjoy using Dynamic when they dim the lights for movies.

No way Panasonic is even near the newest Pioneers in black level if you're watching movies.

No way a panasonic is near a CRT in that type of perfromance either while you're at it. The new Pioneers are so good that even though the next gen is going introduce the first ever 0ftl black level... I am tempted to jump in now. Ugh the horrors!!

BLACK LEVEL GRAFF

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h36/ye_future/Actors/WesleySnipes.jpg

PIONEER


http://images.google.com/url?q=http://frillr.com/files/images/Lenny%2520Kravitz.jpg&usg=AFQjCNF8sBHc9kMers67PHd0RMbP5BRRcg

PANASONIC


http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/james-franco-prairie-home-companion-movie-premiere-7VbAIi.jpg

SAMSUNG

I think I have made my decision. :)

6020.

Great choice. I owned and was happy with several different Pannys over the years but after picking up the 6020 in June, I'll never be able to go back. It's without a doubt the best panel I've ever owned, your going to be really happy with it. Congrads. :)

Also it overblows the white level so the darker areas seem darker then they really are. Nothing wrong w/ that except I don't know many people that enjoy using Dynamic when they dim the lights for movies.

No way Panasonic is even near the newest Pioneers in black level if you're watching movies.

No way a panasonic is near a CRT in that type of perfromance either while you're at it. The new Pioneers are so good that even though the next gen is going introduce the first ever 0ftl black level... I am tempted to jump in now. Ugh the horrors!!

Careful with the CRT comparisons. Neither of my current CRTs does blacks as well as my pz80. They can be as dark but not without completely crushing them. My point is most people upgrading from CRTs are used to cheap TV performance, and think of CRTs in that manner since they won't be comparing a 50" CRT.

Careful with the CRT comparisons. Neither of my current CRTs does blacks as well as my pz80. They can be as dark but not without completely crushing them. My point is most people upgrading from CRTs are used to cheap TV performance, and think of CRTs in that manner since they won't be comparing a 50" CRT.

A hi-quality consumer CRT can be MUCH darker then the pz80 and even have just as much if not more shadow detail. On mixed brightness maybe slight edge to the PZ80. But on the darkest scenes its not even a comparison if they're both set up for full potential.

@ainlawls: Samsung is a white guy? I think you have the wrong photo though. It's missing the red touch of color hehe. It's also a bit racist in a very funny way. Not as in racism between humans but between plasma TVs. Somebody should come up a law to protect the other plasma TVs rights. It's not fair you know :P

I think I have made my decision.

6020.

Assuming the 6020 was within your budget limits in the first place, I guess it wasn't a really hard decision to make. I knew you would pick the Kuro. Your first post had a disappointed tone towards the Pannys. I don't think they are that bad though. Of course I would have also picked the Kuro. I want to buy next year's model myself because it would be too early to change my old Kuro right now. I wonder how good the next generation will be. Last year I would have not imagined such a big jump in quality but then I saw the 5020fd. Impressive!