I have just purchased the following HT system:
50" Panny Plasma
Yamaha RX-V663 Receiver
Vienna Acoustics Waltz Grand (frequency 70-22,000Hz) for L, R, and Center
- wall mounted
Vienna Acoustics Haydn Grand (frequency 42-20,000HZ) bookshelves on stands for rears

I am looking to add a subwoofer to complete the system.
Budget in the $300 incl. tax and shipping range - this is a range so could go a little higher
Room is 17x13.5 and would like to place sub to right of tv stand
Primary use is for HT. Will also use for gaming and music, but mostly HT
I am not looking for something that will shake the walls because I have a wife and little kids so the chances of me being able to turn it up are slim.
But I do want something I can hear that won't be drowned out by my other speakers. There were a few in a store that I could not hear unless turned way up when listening with the Viennas.
A couple I had my eye on were the Boston Acoustics HPS 12 MO $229 and the Polk Audio PSW505 $295, but this is purely based on specs and not having listened to them.
Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated! I need the sub by Friday, Oct. 31.

In the under $300 range....the most commonly recommended subs are the Bic Acoustech H-100 and Acculine Asub.

There are 2 authorized BIC dealers (that I'm aware of) on ebay. If you do the live.com search to get to ebay and do buy it now with paypal, you can get 25-30% cash back. Some have gotten an H-100 for around 175 shipped buy doing buy it now with 30% cash back, after contacting the seller to get shipping costs waived.

I don't see any H-100s on ebay right now, but the new BIC VK-12 is there. After the current live.com cashback of 25%, you could get it for $246.75 shipped. The VK-12 seems to follow the H-100 design, but has a different driver and more powerful amp. It's new though, so no one has had the chance to comment on how it compares to the H-100.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BIC-Acoustech-H-100-NEW-MODEL-IS-HERE-VK-12-1000-WATTS_W0QQitemZ370101039976QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item370101039 976&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1424|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

The Asub can be had for around $295 shipped (depending on what shipping is to your area....maybe less).

http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php/p/acculine-asub/products_id/68

I think the general consensus between these two is that the Acculine has the edge for music, while the BIC, being a 12", will give a little more output. According to craigsub's sub rankings, they both got the same score for HT.

I forgot, another option in that price range is one of the Cadence subs.
http://www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=137

These can be bought through ebay from Cadence with buy it now, so again you can use the live.com cashback deal to get them cheaper. With live.com cashback, you can get the CSX-15 for at or less than your $300 budget.

http://electronics.shop.ebay.com/items/Home-Audio__cadence_W0QQ_nkwZcadenceQQType28035aZSubwoofers160526 37QQ_catrefZ1QQ_dmptZSpeakersQ5fSubwoofersQQ_flnZ1QQ_sacatZ1 4969QQ_ssovZ1QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em282

One thing to note about the live.com cash back...it takes 60-days to get your money back. So you'll have to pay the full amount upfront with paypal and wait 2 months for the cash back amount. The following thread explains how it works.

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=105104&t=952519&highlight=live

Save your money

Seriously trust me. You might find a decent $300 subwoofer but after a short time you will want more.....then you might buy a $600 subwoofer and think it is GREAT.

But after some time you will want more.

So $900 in the hole you will STILL want another better subwoofer.

My advice save up as much money as you can and get something really good just to start (I wish I would have taken my own advice, or someone would have wrote this post to me when I started this SERIOUS theater game about 2 years ago.)

For $1000 you can get a very very very good SVS sub...the new PB-12plus.

For $1600 you can get possibly the best sub built commercially the SVS PB-13Ultra.

Moral of the story....save your money and get something great from the beginning so you actually end up saving money in the long term. :)

ps....why do you NEED it by Oct 31st?

I have a feeling it is a WANT and not a NEED. :D

I'm going to have to agree with bgillyjcu here..especially for a HT setup. I only have a 40" w/ a pair of Audioengine5 bookshelves so an Asub matches them perfectly in my tiny office. I originally had a svs pb12-nsd but that did not pair well at all (decay issues and not musical at all) even though it absolutely killed in HT (so much headroom). I think what you really need to think about instead is what pairs well with your speakers. I doubt that you'd need the top of the line svs, but I'd try to set aside more along the lines of 600-800 and research subs in that price range that are probably a better match for your speakers and room size.

Save your money

Seriously trust me. You might find a decent $300 subwoofer but after a short time you will want more.....then you might buy a $600 subwoofer and think it is GREAT.

But after some time you will want more.

So $900 in the hole you will STILL want another better subwoofer.

My advice save up as much money as you can and get something really good just to start (I wish I would have taken my own advice, or someone would have wrote this post to me when I started this SERIOUS theater game about 2 years ago.)

For $1000 you can get a very very very good SVS sub...the new PB-12plus.

For $1600 you can get possibly the best sub built commercially the SVS PB-13Ultra.

Moral of the story....save your money and get something great from the beginning so you actually end up saving money in the long term. :)

ps....why do you NEED it by Oct 31st?

I have a feeling it is a WANT and not a NEED. :D

I am having the tv and speakers wall mounted and everything set up on Nov. 2 so I would like to have the sub prior to that date to get it set up all together.

Also, I think it will be a lot easier to pass the wife's scrutiny if I get the sub around the same time as the rest of the speakers as, opposed to, some time later bringing home a $1000 sub, if you know what I mean.:D

The other thing is that I really won't be able to blast the sub that often due to having a baby and 2 other little tikes, and a wife that doesn't like anything loud. :D So I don't think an expensive sub will be worth the money for me.

I am having the tv and speakers wall mounted and everything set up on Nov. 2 so I would like to have the sub prior to that date to get it set up all together.

Also, I think it will be a lot easier to pass the wife's scrutiny if I get the sub around the same time as the rest of the speakers as, opposed to, some time later bringing home a $1000 sub, if you know what I mean.:D

The other thing is that I really won't be able to blast the sub that often due to having a baby and 2 other little tikes, and a wife that doesn't like anything loud. :D So I don't think an expensive sub will be worth the money for me.

You spend over $700 ea on mains and expect a good sub for under $300. It all depends on the size of your room, and never think that you will watch a movie in a quite mode with the sub not hardly putting out to satisfy the wife. If she doesn't like anything loud, then you have already lost. If that's what you have to do, then the $$$ you spent on your present gear is a waste. Now, expect to spend as much on a sub as you did on one main speaker. AV123 and SVS I do believe have subs in stock ready to ship. So try those sites. The best bang for the $$$ is the MFW-15 sub at www.**********. Sorry to be blunt about this but I've been there with it all. Give it time and maybe the wife will accept the movie bass.

Bill

Just wait until the Scamp is released. Then you will all run in fear.

Regards,

Some people like to sit around and see how loud they can play their DVD's. That's not your situation.

You are in the process of assembling a rather good system. A subwoofer that is similar in quality to your other speakers would make more sense than trying to cut corners on your sub.

I don't think that you need an SVS PB-12 Plus for $999 plus delivery, let alone an SVS PB-13 Ultra.

If you insist on a $300 budget, the BIC H-100 is widely recognized as one of the best values under $300. You may have to search Ebay for the BIC H-100.

If you are willing to wait and save up for something that is better for music, (but can also do justice to HT), I suggest the Rythmik DS 15. You can order it as a kit, or if you order the driver, amp and enclosure they assemble it for you. Right now $800 assembled, and highly regarded.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/DS15.html

Scroll down to see a complete unit.

If you simply can't double your budget here is another good choice for less money. The Elemental Desigin A2-300 is $350 delivered. This should be a significant upgrade from the Polk, although it will not win any beauty pagent. I think that for an extra $35 Elemental Design can give you an upgraded finish. Just call them.

$300 just doesn't buy much in a retail environment.

Just wait until the Scamp is released. Then you will all run in fear.

Regards,

Really helpful for someone who is looking for delivery by October 31st :confused:

The backlog of orders could put those who are not waiting with baited breath into next summer :rolleyes:

The OP may not even need the Scamp 10, he might be just fine with the Scamp Junior.

But you are right about one thing, people are getting ready to trade their MFW-15s for Scamp 10s.

I dunno I have a paradigm 10 inch sub that I was pleased with for 5 years, I still use it downstairs and it does great. I bought a bic h100 for the theater room upstairs, its a large room but it still does really well. So I think you can get a fair amount of sub for $300 that could keep him happy for a good time.

But just to counter my own argument I am upgrading to a bigger sub. It is because its a dedicated HT room thats 22x23 and has a projector though, it just could use that extra thump. If it was in my great room with a tiny 50 inch display (sorry :) ) I wouldn't feel any need for anything more than a bic h100.

Best Buy was trying to sell me on the MartinLogan Dynamo. But I just didn't think I needed to spend $599 on a sub that I probably won't get a ton of use out of. Plus, I was hoping to get a sub of similar quality in the $300 range by shopping online instead of paying full retail price.

Best Buy was trying to sell me on the MartinLogan Dynamo. But I just didn't think I needed to spend $599 on a sub that I probably won't get a ton of use out of. Plus, I was hoping to get a sub of similar quality in the $300 range by shopping online instead of paying full retail price.


Do yourself a favor and look at the Elemental Design A2-300 for less than $400 you can get a true subwoofer.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=407&osCsid=3bf16b2f6fc756d45054273d621b7cde

Click on paint finish and for an extra $35 you can get a better looking finish.

If you insist on a $300 budget, the BIC H-100 is widely recognized as one of the best values under $300. You may have to search Ebay for the BIC H-100.


I think the Bic H-100 has been finally discontinued. It's no longer on eBay or Amazon, and Overstock lists it as unavailable. SHOP.com has it as part of the whole Acoustech package, but I don't think he wants to rebuy all his speakers. ;)

The eBay sellers are pushing the VK-12 as the H-100s successor, and it looks much the same. However, it's also priced higher (although shipping is free.) They have a make offer on it, but I have no idea what their low offer acceptance is.

I've been thinking of referring people to the Cadence subs, the A-Sub, or even the eD A2-300 (too bad it shot up to $350) for the pricepoint.

But you are right about one thing, people are getting ready to trade their MFW-15s for Scamp 10s.

Yep, you bet.

Regards,

Based on your recommendations so far, I like the Bic America VK-12 and the Elemental Designs A2-300. Help in deciding between the two would be appreciated.

The eD would perform better (if the VK-12 is a direct replacement for the H-100, the eD always outclassed it.) But it's also more expensive (although probably not by much, depending on what offers the VK-12 will go for).

Big thing about eD is that they build them to order, so expect a few weeks wait. The VK-12 would probably arrive in the middle of next week. eD has always had good customer service. And the guys who work there post here from time to time.

depending on your use it's pretty simple to choose between the ed a2-300 or Asub

ed for HT or Asub for music

I would pick the Asub in your situation since you can always turn up the gain if you need to but there's no way of "increasing musicality" if that makes any sense

I called elemental designs and the salesman said it would take at least 3 weeks to get an A-300. But he had an A-250 in stock, which he admitted to being inferior to the A-300. So it's between the A-250, the BIC VK-12, and the Asub. Wouldn't the Asub be inferior to the BIC since the BIC is 250W and the Asub is 150W?

Watts aren't the only thing that make a sub good.

The A-Sub was actually rated higher in the earlier Craigsub rankings. I'm also not 100% convinced the VK-12 is a complete successor to the H-100, although it's probably a very nice sub.

Watts aren't the only thing that make a sub good.

The A-Sub was actually rated higher in the earlier Craigsub rankings. I'm also not 100% convinced the VK-12 is a complete successor to the H-100, although it's probably a very nice sub.

+1

The older 125W version of the Asub matched the 200W version of the ed a2-300 (both are currently 150W and 250W, respectively) on the WOTW emergence scene in craigsub's test..proving that efficiency is much more important that the wattage rating

So based on my requirements, should I go with the Asub, BIC VK-12 or the ED-250? Thanks.

In my opinion for HT the sub is the most important selection, above the TV reciever or center channel. Well maybe 2nd to the movie. When I moved from home I had to left behind my HT including my sub. Gradually I rebuilt everything, including a projector, better mains, better surrounds, better center, better reciever but I never had the awesome sub I left behind. I visited the folks a while back and fired up my old gear. . . what and experience. the sub makes the movie for me.

audition without a sub, audition a cheapo sub and audition a quality sub. Watch a good action flick with the cheapo sub and then watch it the next day with the quality sub. Watch it with just the mains and sub (no center and surround).

I called elemental designs and the salesman said it would take at least 3 weeks to get an A-300. But he had an A-250 in stock, which he admitted to being inferior to the A-300. So it's between the A-250, the BIC VK-12, and the Asub. Wouldn't the Asub be inferior to the BIC since the BIC is 250W and the Asub is 150W?

Waiting an extra 3-4 weeks might be well worth it. Just think about the fact that you are going to have this sub for years. It is better not to wonder how much better the A2-300 would is than the A2-250.

The A3-300 is also very popular these days. Just came off $315 sale. So far, people seem happy with the A2-300.

I know it is hard to wait, however, a little delayed gratification would get you a better product, with your choice of paint finish, for a sub that is in another league from the Polk you were considering.

It really is better to get the A2-300 with a 3 week wait, than to settle for something lesser because it is available right now.

In fact, you will be able to relive the excitement of the system as if you were setting it up for the first time.

I would just add this. There are people waiting for subs who have been on a waiting list for 2 years.

But if the the Asub and BIC VK-12 are just as good as the ED A-300, then I'd rather get one of them since I can get them now. No one had said that the ED A-300 was far superior to the Asub and BIC.

But if the the Asub and BIC VK-12 are just as good as the ED A-300, then I'd rather get one of them since I can get them now. No one had said that the ED A-300 was far superior to the Asub and BIC.

but it is superior

I'm surprised no one has said this, and maybe I missed it. But a $300 subwoofer is just not appropriate for the new speakers you just bought. What happened? Did you blow your load on the speakers? Please. Do those speakers some justice. And the 50" plasma. Save up some money, donate sperm, get a Best Buy card, whatever it takes. $300, IMO, unless you are getting a really good deal on something used, is not enough for a subwoofer, anyway, but for that setup it would be a crying shame. If you are willing to skimp on your sub like this, maybe you should have spent less on your speakers.

And just curious. Did you ABSOLUTELY have to go with on-walls for all 3 of your front speakers?

I'm surprised no one has said this, and maybe I missed it. But a $300 subwoofer is just not appropriate for the new speakers you just bought. What happened? Did you blow your load on the speakers? Please. Do those speakers some justice. And the 50" plasma. Save up some money, donate sperm, get a Best Buy card, whatever it takes. $300, IMO, unless you are getting a really good deal on something used, is not enough for a subwoofer, anyway, but for that setup it would be a crying shame. If you are willing to skimp on your sub like this, maybe you should have spent less on your speakers.

And just curious. Did you ABSOLUTELY have to go with on-walls for all 3 of your front speakers?

The L & R pretty much had to go on the wall. The center channel will be resting on the tv stand.

I did spend most of the available funds on the 5 speakers, but I just don't want to spend similar money on a sub that I think will not get the use that the 5 speakers get.

Get the a3-300 with upgraded driver at least. Or mfw-15. Those will give you the most boom for the money and will be up to the task in SQ.

Get the a3-300 with upgraded driver at least. Or mfw-15. Those will give you the most boom for the money and will be up to the task in SQ.


The OP is going to have a really hard time getting an MFW-15 for $300...unless there is someone who has a Scamp coming who is way high on the wait list ;)

Ok, you have convinced me to increase my budget for a sub a bit. I would like to stay below $500 including shipping. In this range, I am looking at the HSU VTF-1 $488 incl. shippping, the HSU STF-2 $382 incl. shipping, and the SVS PB10-NSD $478 incl. shipping. Could someone please compare these 3 to help me make a decision? Thanks.

Also, keep in mind, I 'm not looking for the sub to shake my house, I just want something to add clear bass to mostly movies and in small part, to music, without having to turn it up all the way to hear it.

The VTF-1 is more powerful than the STF-2, while retaining the same musical SQ...
The SVS well... I haven't heard it...

My opinion get the VTF-1...

I had an svs pb12nsd which was returned since I am 50/50 music/HT. For purely HT it was great, but really overpowered my bookshelves and didnt really blend well with them for music at all. The pb10 from what I've read around here is less powerful than the 12, but still not too musical if that matters to you. Technically the VTF-1 and the STF-2 are the same power (rated at 200W) but the VTF1 has 2 ports and lets you choose between extension or output. Of your choices I would take the VTF-1.

Ok, you have convinced me to increase my budget for a sub a bit. I would like to stay below $500 including shipping. In this range, I am looking at the HSU VTF-1 $488 incl. shippping, the HSU STF-2 $382 incl. shipping, and the SVS PB10-NSD $478 incl. shipping. Could someone please compare these 3 to help me make a decision? Thanks.

Also, keep in mind, I 'm not looking for the sub to shake my house, I just want something to add clear bass to mostly movies and in small part, to music, without having to turn it up all the way to hear it.


Please take a look at this review of the SVS PB 10 done by Ed Mullen. Ed used to work as an engineer for a brewery, and this review was done while he was still working as an engineer. He has been working for SVS for a couple of years now, but again, not when he did this review.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html

When you scroll down some, you will see that the frequency response was flat, plus/minus 1 db from 19-150 Hz. This is outstanding.

Also note that the driver in the PB-10 was upgraded a couple of years ago to one that is even better than the driver in the PB 10 tested by Ed back in 2004.

The only issues with the PB 10 NSD are that it does not have a variable crossover built in, so you have to set the crossover on your receiver and it does not have speaker level inputs and outputs. Neither of these is a problem for most users.

The PB 10 NSD should be outstanding for movies and good for music.

Ok, you have convinced me to increase my budget for a sub a bit. I would like to stay below $500 including shipping. In this range, I am looking at the HSU VTF-1 $488 incl. shippping, the HSU STF-2 $382 incl. shipping, and the SVS PB10-NSD $478 incl. shipping. Could someone please compare these 3 to help me make a decision? Thanks.

Also, keep in mind, I 'm not looking for the sub to shake my house, I just want something to add clear bass to mostly movies and in small part, to music, without having to turn it up all the way to hear it.

for $500 shipped get the eD A3-300 with the upgraded driver

Strangely enough, I think that domingos1965 wants you to get an eD.

Strangely enough, I think that domingos1965 wants you to get an eD.

he can get whatever the hell he wants .i really could not care less

he can get whatever the hell he wants .i really could not care lesslighten up

And are you SURE you don't care? ;)

lighten up

And are you SURE you don't care? ;)

He can't help himself. He has made the same recommendation 125 times now.

Oops. I am technically wrong. The 125 recommendations include ALL the different models from Ed. 95 of them were for the A5-350.

lighten up

And are you SURE you don't care? ;)

nope.but i am sure u do

what i don't understand with this type of post is why ANYONE would buy brand new when you can get easily a 600-700.00 sub used for around 300.00 bucks??? go get yourself an HSU VTF3 MKII for around 350.00 or the VTF2 MKII for even less and you'll be blown away. why would you waste your time with some 100 watt cheap sub???

retail is for SUCKAS!!!

but i am sure u doWhy is that? Do I recommend the same subwoofer over and over again or something?

what i don't understand with this type of post is why ANYONE would buy brand new when you can get easily a 600-700.00 sub used for around 300.00 bucks??? go get yourself an HSU VTF3 MKII for around 350.00 or the VTF2 MKII for even less and you'll be blown away. why would you waste your time with some 100 watt cheap sub???

retail is for SUCKAS!!!

But the very obvious downside to buying used is that most companies have non-transferable warranties.... So what do you do when the amp decides to crap out on you? Buy a replacement amp maybe...but what if it's a discontinued model?

Just things to take into account when thinking about buying used. Then again, some companies' warranties on the electronics portion of subwoofers is only a year anyway...so in that scenario, just how important is that manufacturer warranty?

i understand. and i can see that you might be worried about that..but regardless if you are the original owner or not if the amp or driver is no longer made it won't matter. personally, i have had around 15 different subs, and not one has died on me. i still have one that is 20 years old working perfectly. i only suggested it cause it would save him money and get him a much better sub for what he wants to spend.

I ordered the SVS PB10–NSD. Thank you for all your help. I will let you know what I think of it after I get the system set up this Sunday.