I was wondering/mulling over the idea of getting a 2nd pb10 nsd for my<1400 cu. ft. bedroom. I seem to be lacking an (extention?) in slamming bass...unless I run my sub "hot" 3-5dbs'.
would I be better off with an Hsu Mbm for higher frequencies?
Or should I just get another Pb10?:confused:

I was wondering/mulling over the idea of getting a 2nd pb10 nsd for my<1400 cu. ft. bedroom. I seem to be lacking an (extension?) in slamming bass...unless I run my sub "hot" 3-5dbs'.
would I be better off with an Hsu Mbm for higher frequencies?
Or should I just get another Pb10?:confused:Extension refers to how low in frequency it will go. You want more output. Running a sub 3-5 db hot is not unusual. If it works for you, then your fine.

Extension refers to how low in frequency it will go. You want more output. Running a sub 3-5 db hot is not unusual. If it works for you, then your fine.

10/4 Randy. I'm still getting a handle on the so called max extension, max output, orientation. See I think Audyssey sets my sub trim level a little lean for my tastes. I'd like to "bump" it up (the trim level that is) but I don't want to throw Audyessy's Eq for the room off(I'm not even sure that would be the outcome). Some helpful people have suggested I get used to it's settings, but I'm not sure I like it as it is. Maybe just unrefined hearing:o I rather enjoy feeling the bass in the room as opposed to having it blend so much. Kinda fun feeling the movie. Thanks for posting a reply. Jerry.

htjunkee,

You might want to see if the MBM-12 will work properly with the PB10-NSD. The PB10-NSD doesn't have a crossover, so it's possible you won't be able to cut it off where the MBM-12 kicks in. You might end up with overlap and augmented upper bass frequencies. It would also negate the deep bass advantage a true subwoofer usually receives with the MBM-12 because the PB10 wouldn't be able to focus completely on the deep bass. If you're seriously considering the MBM-12, I'd check with Hsu to make sure it would work correctly with the PB10.

FYI, the other option you mentioned (adding a second PB10) would make a big difference. I had a single PB10 in my bedroom and when I added a second I noticed a huge improvement in output and bass quality. I've sinced moved to an Epik Castle, but I'm admittedly a bass addict. Two PB10's in your 1400 cubic foot room would satisfy just about anybody but the extreme bass heads here on AVS. Unless your goal is to listen at reference level, dual PB10's in that small room would be more than sufficient for your listening needs.

10/4 Randy. I'm still getting a handle on the so called max extension, max output, orientation. See I think Audyssey sets my sub trim level a little lean for my tastes. I'd like to "bump" it up (the trim level that is) but I don't want to throw Audyessy's Eq for the room off(I'm not even sure that would be the outcome). Some helpful people have suggested I get used to it's settings, but I'm not sure I like it as it is. Maybe just unrefined hearing:o I rather enjoy feeling the bass in the room as opposed to having it blend so much. Kinda fun feeling the movie. Thanks for posting a reply. Jerry.

Jerry, you're not the only one who finds Audyssey's settings a little lean. Feel free to bump up the gain on the subwoofer by a couple of db to suit your tastes after Audyssey does it's thing. This won't screw up any Audyssey settings. It will just make the bass a little fuller.

Thanks la & mojo. I'm not sure about the Mbm dollar wise & more so placement wise. I understand the Mbm needs nearfield placement for best operation. Nearfield placement might be a problem. I remember you la you are the guy with 2 pb 10's in that 900? cu. ft. bedroom must've sounded sick.:D You say 2 would bring me closer to reference level listening? But not quite there? I was afraid of that I thought 1 Pb10 would suffice in my <1400 cu. ft. bedroom looks as though I may have miscalculated. All the more reason to consider selling the Pb10 and maybe buying 1 of the powered cylinders on clearance right now.So mojo you say I can bump up the trim level for the sub(in the receiver controls)(I already have the gain set @10:00) and it won't affect Audyssey? I'm glad to hear that!:) That's the cheapest fix at least for now. The Pb10 puts out decent levels for me when I can turn it up past Audyssey's settings. I just didn't want to throw the Audyssey Eq-ing and stuff off. Thanks again guys I always appreciate the advice.:) Jerry.P.s. I may check back in for advice on the powered cylinders if I kick the idea around enough.

Thanks la & mojo. I'm not sure about the Mbm dollar wise & more so placement wise. I understand the Mbm needs nearfield placement for best operation. Nearfield placement might be a problem. I remember you la you are the guy with 2 pb 10's in that 900? cu. ft. bedroom must've sounded sick.:D You say 2 would bring me closer to reference level listening? But not quite there? I was afraid of that I thought 1 Pb10 would suffice in my <1400 cu. ft. bedroom looks as though I may have miscalculated. All the more reason to consider selling the Pb10 and maybe buying 1 of the powered cylinders on clearance right now.So mojo you say I can bump up the trim level on the sub and it wont affect Audyssey? I'm glad to hear that!:) That's the cheapest fix at least for now. The Pb10 puts out decent levels for me when I can turn it up past Audyssey's settings. I just didn't want to throw the Audyssey Eq-ing and stuff off. Thanks again guys I always appreciate the advice.:) Jerry.P.s. I may check back in for advice on the powered cylinders if I kick the idea around enough.

Hi,

I talked to Ed Mullen in depth about different possibilities when I was looking to upgrade from my single PB10. We discussed adding a 25-31 PCi, a 25-31 PCi tuned to 22hz, a 20-39 PCi, a PB12-NSD, a 20-39 PC Plus, and finally a second PB10-NSD. For me, the PB10 was the best solution, mostly due to space constraints/subwoofer placement and price/performance.

IMO adding a second PB10 and stacking the two would offer a lot more output than any of the PCi subs. A single PB10 actually hangs in there quite well with the PCi subs. Actually, two colocated PB10's have more output over most of their frequency band than the PC Plus series as well (the 20-39 and 16-46 might have a small advantage below 25hz) and it would be a lot cheaper for you to add a second PB10 than to go to a Plus. Honestly I'd probably recommend just going with a second PB10 unless you want to step up to an Ultra (which is very expensive). I don't think any of the Pluses will be able to outperform dual PB10's except in ultra-deep extension. The Pluses might have a small sound quality advantage too.

Do you find the PB10 to be severely lacking in output or just slightly? As was recommended, bumping the subwoofer output on the receiver by a couple dB might give you the punch you seek. If you listen loud and can frequently sense a loss of dynamics, a second colocated PB10 will offer you an additional ~6dB of headroom - believe me, that's quite a big difference! Dual PB10's in my small room got me very close to reference level with minimal dynamic compression. To be honest, I probably could have stuck with two PB10's and been plenty happy, but having gotten addicted to bass I decided to go with an Epik Castle and its power in my room is unreal.

If you're willing to branch out into other brands, don't mind waiting a while, and want to most performance possible for your money, I'd recommend selling the PB10 you have now and going with an Epik Knight. I talked with Chad from Epik and he was confident the Knight would match or exceed dual colocated PB10's quite easily over most of their usable bandwidth, with a significant output advantage way down deep. If you can sell the PB10 for ~$300 or so the Knight will end up costing less than adding a second PB10 and I think the results would be better. I only went with the Castle to stave off upgraditis. But if you're sticking with SVS (amazing company - products and support - and I'd totally understand if you want to stick with them) I'd suggest either a second PB10 or perhaps adding a PB12-NSD instead. Any of those options should give you a lot more bass than what you have now. Best of luck. Keep us posted.

Stephen

Hi,

I talked to Ed Mullen in depth about different possibilities when I was looking to upgrade from my single PB10. We discussed adding a 25-31 PCi, a 25-31 PCi tuned to 22hz, a 20-39 PCi, a PB12-NSD, a 20-39 PC Plus, and finally a second PB10-NSD. For me, the PB10 was the best solution, mostly due to space constraints/subwoofer placement and price/performance.

IMO adding a second PB10 and stacking the two would offer a lot more output than any of the PCi subs. A single PB10 actually hangs in there quite well with the PCi subs. Actually, two colocated PB10's have more output over most of their frequency band than the PC Plus series as well (the 20-39 and 16-46 might have a small advantage below 25hz) and it would be a lot cheaper for you to add a second PB10 than to go to a Plus. Honestly I'd probably recommend just going with a second PB10 unless you want to step up to an Ultra (which is very expensive). I don't think any of the Pluses will be able to outperform dual PB10's except in ultra-deep extension. The Pluses might have a small sound quality advantage too.

Do you find the PB10 to be severely lacking in output or just slightly? As was recommended, bumping the subwoofer output on the receiver by a couple dB might give you the punch you seek. If you listen loud and can frequently sense a loss of dynamics, a second colocated PB10 will offer you an additional ~6dB of headroom - believe me, that's quite a big difference! Dual PB10's in my small room got me very close to reference level with minimal dynamic compression. To be honest, I probably could have stuck with two PB10's and been plenty happy, but having gotten addicted to bass I decided to go with an Epik Castle and its power in my room is unreal.

If you're willing to branch out into other brands, don't mind waiting a while, and want to most performance possible for your money, I'd recommend selling the PB10 you have now and going with an Epik Knight. I talked with Chad from Epik and he was confident the Knight would match or exceed dual colocated PB10's quite easily over most of their usable bandwidth, with a significant output advantage way down deep. If you can sell the PB10 for ~$300 or so the Knight will end up costing less than adding a second PB10 and I think the results would be better. I only went with the Castle to stave off upgraditis. But if you're sticking with SVS (amazing company - products and support - and I'd totally understand if you want to stick with them) I'd suggest either a second PB10 or perhaps adding a PB12-NSD instead. Any of those options should give you a lot more bass than what you have now. Best of luck. Keep us posted.

Stephen

Thank you for repling back so quickly Stephen, as well as putting as much thought as you obviously did in providing me with all of the various options that are available. Maybe if I were to have done research on this and other forums maybe I would have had a more informed decision making process prior to my sub purchase. Not to be misunderstood though I'm very happy with the Pb10 and SVS in general.:) I have this upgraditis somewhat and just wondered how I can improve on an already pretty capable LFE channel. I'll have to look into Epik. I've read about them(Epik) hear and there on the forum as well as Elemental Designs. I have no specific brand loyalty per say, I believe in giving anyone that deserves my business an opportunity to earn my business. I am considering 2 pb 10's because I'll be able to remove the feet to give me a shorter stack height. See they would need to fit under the Monitor Audio Radius series 250 speaker that's on the wall behind the existing Pb10. The height was part of the problem with me as I considered the cylinder sub. The 25-31 is probably the best option size wise but I thought I'd be losing low (extension?)v.s. the 20-39. I watch movies 80% of the time music the rest, no gaming. Thanks, Jerry.

Thank you for repling back so quickly Stephen, as well as putting as much thought as you obviously did in providing me with all of the various options that are available. Maybe if I were to have done research on this and other forums maybe I would have had a more informed decision making process prior to my sub purchase. Not to be misunderstood though I'm very happy with the Pb10 and SVS in general.:) I have this upgraditis somewhat and just wondered how I can improve on an already pretty capable LFE channel. I'll have to look into Epik. I've read about them(Epik) hear and there on the forum as well as Elemental Designs. I have no specific brand loyalty per say, I believe in giving anyone that deserves my business an opportunity to earn my business. I am considering 2 pb 10's because I'll be able to remove the feet to give me a shorter stack height. See they would need to fit under the Monitor Audio Radius series 250 speaker that's on the wall behind the existing Pb10. The height was part of the problem with me as I considered the cylinder sub. The 25-31 is probably the best option size wise but I thought I'd be losing low (extension?)v.s. the 20-39. I watch movies 80% of the time music the rest, no gaming. Thanks, Jerry.

Jerry,

No problem. Glad to help :). Your situation sounded almost exactly the same as mine so I felt I had a good deal of information (or maybe opinion :rolleyes:) that might be of use to you. Incidentally, if you want to stack two PB10's and have a couple of extra inches of floor space, you can have them on their sides to make the stack a little shorter than if you stack them right side up. It shouldn't have any effect on the sound quality. Two PB10's are certainly a great subwoofer setup - especially in a <1400 cubic foot room! I'm sure you'd be plenty happy with that setup. But again, if you wanted even more performance, the Epik Knight, AV123 MFW-15, eD A5-350, or Epik Caliber will probably be even better. I'd especially recommend the Caliber if you want more ultra deep bass output and extension. In your small room, I would expect you to get extension to a solid 13-15hz with the Caliber, as well as more impact than dual PB10's in the more common bass range. IMO for a dedicated HT setup, a Caliber would be absolutely awesome in your room. Overall, I don't think you can go wrong with any of those choices. Good luck.

Jerry,

No problem. Glad to help :). Your situation sounded almost exactly the same as mine so I felt I had a good deal of information (or maybe opinion :rolleyes:) that might be of use to you. Incidentally, if you want to stack two PB10's and have a couple of extra inches of floor space, you can have them on their sides to make the stack a little shorter than if you stack them right side up. It shouldn't have any effect on the sound quality. Two PB10's are certainly a great subwoofer setup - especially in a <1400 cubic foot room! I'm sure you'd be plenty happy with that setup. But again, if you wanted even more performance, the Epik Knight, AV123 MFW-15, eD A5-350, or Epik Caliber will probably be even better. I'd especially recommend the Caliber if you want more ultra deep bass output and extension. In your small room, I would expect you to get extension to a solid 13-15hz with the Caliber, as well as more impact than dual PB10's in the more common bass range. IMO for a dedicated HT setup, a Caliber would be absolutely awesome in your room. Overall, I don't think you can go wrong with any of those choices. Good luck.

Thanks, Stephen. That's the terriffic thing about these forums as well as the internet in general, to think that one could correspond with people that have the same interests anywhere in the world. To be able to have this dialogue is by and far the most enlightening thing to happen to me in some time. Something as simple as stacking the Pb10's on thier sides in order to keep thier height profile lower is something I didn't even consider, this is the sort of exchange to which I'm speaking. Thanks again, la. P.s. The 10's on thier sides actually might not work I only have about 17" of space between the synergy triple 20 cabinet and the wall, but the suggestion is duly appreciated! I'll have to look into some of these other sub suggestions you mentioned.

I can tell you right now off the top of my head that unfortunately the others I mentioned are all at least 18" wide. The Knight is 18" wide, the Tower is 20" wide, the MFW-15 is a bit over 18" wide, and the A5-350 is 21" wide. Your idea of stacking PB10's right side up would still work just fine.

As pointed out, since the PB10 has no adjustable low-pass filter, unfortunately, you would not be able to easily use it with an MBM, although it could possibly be done with some effort. I'm not sure what you mean by "slamming bass", as you also called it extension. Usually "slam" means "punch", and I do not know that adding another PB10 will necessarily give you that. "Punch" comes from the frequencies up higher, say 35 or 40Hz and up.

Gotcha guys.

Looks as though based on the demensions la mentioned I may have to stick with the Pb10. As if staying with thay would be a bad thing.:) As to the point sivadselim brought up "slamming bass" was probably the incorrect terminology on my part :confused:. You say I would need a higher range of hz and the Pb may not deliver that? I thought the Pb was good from 100's or 200 hz on down to say 18 hz with maybe 3-5 lower in room. If "in room" is what that hz means?

I'm actually pleasantly surprised to report that I had just watched of all movies "The Brave one" w/ Jodie Foster and found out that if I raise my front left, right and center x-over from the recommended 80hz to 90hz the bass seems to have much more presence. There's a scene where Jodie's boyfriend gets a final strike with a pipe from an attacker and the sound rumbled the bedroom floor.:D (The grin is for the rumbling floor not the violent scene:) )Maybe it's psychosomatic?(That it sounded better that is.)