Hey all,

Man is there a lot of info on Receivers out there! I'm seriously considering the Denon AVR-1909 as it is said to have a true HDMI pass-through in terms of sending a clean HDMI signal to the HD Monitor. The Onkyo's have all been reviewed as having poor video signal processing. Any thoughts out there? The Denon is priced at about $550-$650. I'd love to stay in the $400 range but I don't want to compromise image quality but I do want to bring the video signal through a good receiver . . . .

Tim

Where did you see the Onkyos all have "poor video signal processing?" This is simply not true.

You'll get more information in the receiver section of the forum.

if you use the hdmi hookup with an onkyo then there is no signal processing it's just a passthrough of the source material...at least thats true of the 805 that i have and the lower 705 and 605 models. I'm also pretty sure that the preferred setting on the PS3 is linear PCM for audio which does all the decoding in the PS3 itself.

Had a Yamaha 663 took it back and got an Onkyo 606. Much happier with the 606. The Yamaha sounded pretty tame and didn't have the "uumph". The onkyo is much better in the sound dept. and doesn't distort at high volumes like the yamaha did.

Onkyo, yamaha,..can't go wrong with those!

The poor video signal processing you read about is the upconversion capabilities of some of the Onkyo's. The 606 for example has the capability to upconvert an HDMI or Component signal to 1080i through the receiver. Higher-end Onkyo's can upconvert to 1080p, and from what I've read, they have a better chip for that conversion.

I wouldn't let the reputation steer you away from an Onkyo though - I have yet to find a reason why I would want to use the receiver to upconvert.
The PS3 upconverts the signal internally, and you would have the Onkyo set to passthrough the video to your TV, ignoring the internal signal processor.

As an owner of the 1909 (2 months now) who did a lot of research lately in this department.

1. Yamaha's had issues with clipping blacks - it seems to be present in most models due to the video cards used.

2. Onkyo - very nice for the $$, most bang for buck. But they tend to run very, very warm if not hot. There has been talk of quality control issues if you read the threads.

3. Harman Kardon - excellent receivers, but you pay $$$ for them. Great sound, but there are current issues with HDMI and PCM from the PS3 and the owners are currently waiting for a much needed firmware fix that should be out shortly. Harmans also seem try to tweak the video signal if 720p or less in the lower end models.

4. Denon - I got my 1909 for 499 w/ free shipping. If you go back to the owner's thread you might still find how and where to get it at that price. It has no pre-outs if that is important to you but what you do get is 3 HDMI, video untouched, great sound, Audyssey and the newest most amazing features of Audyssey: Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. Dynamic EQ maintains voices and base levels at low volumes so you feel like you haven't lost the big sound when listening when you need to be quiet. Dynamic Volume is a realtime volume leveler designed to minimize the need to reach for the remote when a loud commercial comes on or when there is large volume swings in any audio track.

For me, the Denon was the way to go. Untouched video, 0 PS3 issues, zero heat issues, and great Audyssey features. But if you really want to go big - see if you can find last years Denon 998 for about $5-600 (nearly 50% of list from last year). You lose some HDMI and the new Audyssey features but you get a very powerful, high quality receiver.

2nd the Denon suggestion. I had an AVR-3300 for years and never had a problem. I upgraded to an AVR-987 (2807) about two years ago and love it. As always YMMV.

I have an onkyo 705, no complaints here. ps3, 360 and hd-dvr hooked through it and its amazing....especialy for the money.

onkyo makes a quality product, I wouldnt hesitate to buy another onkyo product when I need one. Mine is on anywhere from 8-18 hrs a day and I have never felt it get hot..or warm.

(tx sr-705) onkyo makes a quality product, I wouldnt hesitate to buy another onkyo product when I need one. Mine is on anywhere from 8-18 hrs a day and I have never felt it get hot..or warm.


You must have nothing above your 705, mine has about 2 inches of clearance above it (open on all other sides) it if I tried I bet I could cook some eggs on the glass shelf immediately above the Onkyo.

if you are connecting to a high end HDTV. make sure the receiver can pass rgb full range. a lot of the av receivers clip btb and super white. also i have noticed that av hdmi processing can introduce lag into the gaming controls. i had to connect my ps3 direct to my xbr4 and use optical audio out to av so i could play lbp correctly.

Do you have your HDMI set to passthrough? I have my Onkyo 606 passing through HDMI to my XBR4 and don't have any issues with LBP. If it's processing a signal, then you could have lag, but shouldn't if it's set to passthrough.

Do you have your HDMI set to passthrough? I have my Onkyo 606 passing through HDMI to my XBR4 and don't have any issues with LBP. If it's processing a signal, then you could have lag, but shouldn't if it's set to passthrough.

i will check on that. i think my av is only pass thru.

In the $400 range the Pioneer 1018 is hard to beat. Check out the thread in the receiver forum but there seems to be few hdmi problems and it has most of the features that should make it pretty future proof. I have only been able to hear it at best buy but it sounded pretty good.

In the $400 range the Pioneer 1018 is hard to beat. Check out the thread in the receiver forum but there seems to be few hdmi problems and it has most of the features that should make it pretty future proof. I have only been able to hear it at best buy but it sounded pretty good.
+1 I'm surprised that it took so long for anyone to recommend a Pioneer.

The question comes down to decoding.

If you need the receiver to decode the HD audio codecs...go with the Pioneer 1018.

If you let your BD player decode the HD audio codecs...go with the Pioneer 918.

They can't be beat.

If you let your BD player decode the HD audio codecs...go with the Pioneer 918.



That's your only option with a PS3. It can't Bitstream HD codecs.

I have an onkyo 705, no complaints here. ps3, 360 and hd-dvr hooked through it and its amazing....especialy for the money.

onkyo makes a quality product, I wouldnt hesitate to buy another onkyo product when I need one. Mine is on anywhere from 8-18 hrs a day and I have never felt it get hot..or warm.
The 706 got the certified and recommended award from Sound and Vision.. I'd still recommend the yammy V1800 though.. Retails for around 1,300, but can be had for 600, if you look hard enough.

That's your only option with a PS3. It can't Bitstream HD codecs.
Yes, I know. That is what I have.

No matter what receiver a person chooses for the PS3, you want to look for the following at the very least: HDMI capable audio (do you need HD decoding? No. But if you ever want to get a standalone BR player you might want to have it.), Video passthrough (or at least one with upconversion that can be turned off and on to the liking of the user) with correct color output (Yammy's are notorious for that clipping BTB and WTW if that is important to you), and then anything else is just pretty much preference by the owner.

The main reason I would go for the 1018 is that the amplifier section is a thx certified amp with out the badging. I dont know why but the 1018 is thx certified on the asian and europeon versions but not in the U.S. The difference in price between the the 1018 and the 918 is worth it to me to get what I feel is a better amp section.

i use the Yamaha RX-V661 with my Ps3 for the following reasons:

Passes 1080P Over its HDMI
Proccesses 8 Channels (7.1) of LPCM Audio thru its HDMI and can Apply Post Processing. For Example You Can Turn Movies With 2.0 or 5.1 Audio into 7.1.
It Doesnt Decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA, BUT The PS3 Will Decode Those Formats Into LPCM for you.
Decodes DD, DTS......Etc...All Lossy Formats.
iPOD, XM, XMHD Ready.
and its inexpensive. Search Ebay & Amazon.

i use the Yamaha RX-V661 with my Ps3 for the following reasons:

Passes 1080P Over its HDMI
Proccesses 8 Channels (7.1) of LPCM Audio thru its HDMI and can Apply Post Processing. For Example You Can Turn Movies With 2.0 or 5.1 Audio into 7.1.
It Doesnt Decode Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA, BUT The PS3 Will Decode Those Formats Into LPCM for you.
Decodes DD, DTS......Etc...All Lossy Formats.
iPOD, XM, XMHD Ready.
and its inexpensive. Search Ebay & Amazon.

+1

especially the post processing over HDMI (pretty rare, as far as i know). very cool.

i have been looking at the rx-v663. how do these two yamaha units compare..?

i have been looking at the rx-v663. how do these two yamaha units compare..?

w/out researching it at all and just off the top of my head, i think the 663 can decode dts-hdma and tolbytruehd by itself. not an issue w/ the ps3. i feel like the 661 does something better than the 3, though. i can't remember.

As an owner of the 1909 (2 months now) who did a lot of research lately in this department.

1. Yamaha's had issues with clipping blacks - it seems to be present in most models due to the video cards used.

2. Onkyo - very nice for the $$, most bang for buck. But they tend to run very, very warm if not hot. There has been talk of quality control issues if you read the threads.

3. Harman Kardon - excellent receivers, but you pay $$$ for them. Great sound, but there are current issues with HDMI and PCM from the PS3 and the owners are currently waiting for a much needed firmware fix that should be out shortly. Harmans also seem try to tweak the video signal if 720p or less in the lower end models.

4. Denon - I got my 1909 for 499 w/ free shipping. If you go back to the owner's thread you might still find how and where to get it at that price. It has no pre-outs if that is important to you but what you do get is 3 HDMI, video untouched, great sound, Audyssey and the newest most amazing features of Audyssey: Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. Dynamic EQ maintains voices and base levels at low volumes so you feel like you haven't lost the big sound when listening when you need to be quiet. Dynamic Volume is a realtime volume leveler designed to minimize the need to reach for the remote when a loud commercial comes on or when there is large volume swings in any audio track.

For me, the Denon was the way to go. Untouched video, 0 PS3 issues, zero heat issues, and great Audyssey features. But if you really want to go big - see if you can find last years Denon 998 for about $5-600 (nearly 50% of list from last year). You lose some HDMI and the new Audyssey features but you get a very powerful, high quality receiver.

I went almost the exact same process and came out with the same result. Denon AVR-789. I was a little wary of Onkyo's heat and build quality issues.

I would check out these two Marantz products. They come with a 3 year warranty, high quality components, and incredible sound.

http://us.marantz.com/Products/2513.asp
http://us.marantz.com/Products/2514.asp

+1 I'm surprised that it took so long for anyone to recommend a Pioneer.

The question comes down to decoding.

If you need the receiver to decode the HD audio codecs...go with the Pioneer 1018.

If you let your BD player decode the HD audio codecs...go with the Pioneer 918.

They can't be beat.

Yep...picked up the 918 for $250 shipped from 6ave and pretty happy w/ the purchase. I didn't need the decoding or 7.1 so this receiver met my needs especially w/ the price point.
I guess if you don't feel the PS3 will be your main BD player in the foreseeable future then it's probably worth checking out receivers w/ the decoding.

Hey Kurlon,Just get yourself some desent headphones.The 918 does a great job with SS on 2 channel headphones.I got the 918,and the pioneer 84 that does dolby headphone.I personally like the soundstage better on the 918.The 918 is more seamless,fuller.Dolby headphone on the 84 is thinner.You can pinpoint locations very well on either unit.I`ve got 2 sets of headphones.The AT 700`s,and SENN HD485`s.I didn`t really like the HD 485`s on the 84,the bass sounded boomy.They sound more balanced on the 918.I still use the AT700`s for long gaming sessions.[much lighter on my head]Same results with PS3, or the 360.

I have my PS3 hooked up to the Sony STR-DG820.I think it's perfect for the price($450).It has 4 HDMI ports,suports 7.1 Dolby True HD,etc.I have my PS3,360,and cable hooked up to it .It's highly recomended.:D

Hey Kurlon,Just get yourself some desent headphones.The 918 does a great job with SS on 2 channel headphones.I got the 918,and the pioneer 84 that does dolby headphone.I personally like the soundstage better on the 918.The 918 is more seamless,fuller.Dolby headphone on the 84 is thinner.You can pinpoint locations very well on either unit.I`ve got 2 sets of headphones.The AT 700`s,and SENN HD485`s.I didn`t really like the HD 485`s on the 84,the bass sounded boomy.They sound more balanced on the 918.I still use the AT700`s for long gaming sessions.[much lighter on my head]Same results with PS3, or the 360.
Yes, and would provide a bigger wow factor with good headphones IMO. It's amazing how much speakers miss in the detail department.. But if you enjoy gaming with friends and watching movies with friends, speakers are ideal, as headphones are anti social. And no headphone will give you an engulfing 360 sound stage like speakers can. I'd recommend both. I use headphones exclusively for a variety of reasons.. Easier to get hi end sound on a budget, would be one of then.. Are you sure the 84 supports DH?