OK, Tom would like a little help in coming up with design ideas for his challenging space. Now that the water has receded it's full speed ahead.

The Room shown below is the basic space Tom is working with. 12' 3" wide. There is a Big Ass ductwork soffit taking a bite out of the right side. it is 35.5 inches wide by 11 tall. Overall ceiling height is 88 1/2.

There is a bump out centered in the front that is 34 inches wide by 26 1/2 deep. The only electric panel for the house hugs the right front.

Plans are for a single row of Berklines potentially moved around the room in more of a U shape for more of a lounge style seating depending on the event. There will be a bar on the right side behind the seating.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/loganbasicroom.jpg

Tom's speakers will be floor standing L/R that are 35.5H x9.25W x 13D, center is 7.5H x17W x 7.5D. He also has an SVS tube sub that is 40H and 16 in diameter. He has the fabric for an SMX AT screen so the natural thought is to stick the center and sub in that front niche (subject to testing the sonic impact)

Usually one would think that putting a matching soffit on the left would help the design but that would make 50% of the ceiling a little less than 6 1/2 feet high. So rule that out.

Here is my suggested plan 1.0

Build a soffit extension of 18 inches deep in the front and cutting across the left front corner at a 45 matching the front of the stage below.

Build a stage with 2x8s and two layers of 3/4 decking for a total of 9 inches as shown:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/loganaddstageandsoffitwork.jpg

Then build some movable proscenium frames covered with black GOM. Held in place against back blocking with Velcro. Use 2 inch deep material for the framing. Maybe put the one on the right on hinges for quick access to the circuit breakers.

Add some linacoustic and black material to the front wall and hang a 96 inch wide 16:9 screen. While originally Tom wanted a 2:35 screen if he did that then the resulting 16:9 image would be pretty small for sports.

Projector is assumed to be 1080P although one hasn't been selected.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/loganaddGOMcoveredframesand96inchwi.jpg

Lastly here are some of the dimensions (rough) on a top down view showing speaker placement.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/logantopview.jpg

OK, let's have some FEEDBACK and SUGGESTIONS for this challenging space.

Flipping the room is a no go? I am reluctant to put the electrical panel on my screenwall since it seems like it might be a future PITA.

If reversing is possible, that bump out area might be a good spot for a pull out rack.

Big, what is the depth of the room?

Flipping the room is a no go? correct. Maybe we can get Tom to attach a picture so you will understand why. There are a pair of glass sliders on the rear left wall. hallway to the bathroom and store room, steel support posts that the bar will be built around. stairway and walkway. Door to the utility room.


I don't have the total room length in my notes. At least 22 ft.

With that kind of depth, I would be considering a false wall further out for the screen to sit on. It would make it possible to still get a 2:35 screen, expanding the current 96" screen by 1.33 would result in 128" 2:35 screen. This way the 16:9 image is still a respectable size.

The way I picture it I might have the false wall start at the mid point of the side angled sections. Obviously you would need to pull out the curved step appropriately. Hopefully it would still allow enough space at the side(s) to get to the box easily?

Oman, I think I follow your idea, Put the L/R behind the AT screen. So we would need it come out at least 20 inches so the 17 inch deep speakers would fit. (assuming screen frame of 2 inch deep)

The room is 147 inches wide. The electric panel consumes 16 inches into the room so for access we should allow 16 inches on both sides, leaving a screen width of 115 inches and height of 48.9 inches. That would leave a pretty decent size 16:9 image, in fact about an inch bigger than the size of my 100 inch diagonal 16:9 screen.

Something for Tom to consider.

Gotcha about the no flip rule. If folks think of good access to the panel, I may flip my room. I'll be watching.


Lastly here are some of the dimensions (rough) on a top down view showing speaker placement.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/logantopview.jpg


I am not sure that recessing the sub into that space is a good idea. Might want to check with some of the experts on that. Might be a place for bass trapping along the lines of what EBR did:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7301318#post7301318

and finish here (see BPape's comment in the next post):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7379431#post7379431

What is behind the front wall? I'm asking, because maybe you can construct a 'utilidor' so that you could access the electrical panel, and also use it as a screen wall, and make a door accessing the space from the side (of your illustration) or even the end wall there. Perhaps make the utilidor 36" deep (code for a hallway), which would still leave you with ~19ft (plus) of room depth. Would that allow for a larger screen?

Yes the placement of the Sub is a big concern. As soon as Tom gets his drywall in place he intends to do some real world testing of how it sounds in his space. Bringing it into the room would involve either deepening the stage area or putting the sub out in the room somewhere.

He is also open to switching out to a front firing sub if other alternatives don't pan out.


Moving the seating area back May restrict Toms plans for a wet bar on the back right section of the room.

If folks think of good access to the panel, I may flip my room. I'll be watching.


One thought I had is to make that proscenium GOM frame on the right pivot out of the way with hinges on the wall side.

You are quite right that it needs to be simple so that even our significant others can get to it.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/loganaddGOMcoveredframesand96inchwi.jpg


I like the idea of dressing up the marquee - maybe something emblematic like Shelton's art-deco
http://myweb.cableone.net/mjshelton/files/images/ht/sm11/fan12.JPG
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9479677#post9479677

Or perhaps something that is a little more Logan in the middle of the front soffit perhaps a relief carving of this:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/Other/KickButt-711202.png

I really like the idea of bringing the screenwall out more for a lot of reasons:

1. He definitely has the depth to spare (22 feet)
2. You can have the speakers behind the false screenwall.
3. If far enough, it will still allow you access to the electrical panel.
4. The 12x22 is probably not the best for room acoustics - a 12x20ish would likely be much better.
5. You'll be able to have your sub behind the screen wall.
6. It would reduce the huge soffit in appearance as long as he brings the ceiling down to match it.

I'm sure there are more reasons but those are the quick ones I just thought about.

Just be sure that the electrical panel is still accessable -- I know he's going the permit route and inspectors get pretty picky about things possiblly blocking it. Code says that you need to be able to access it (I think it is 36 inches in front and 30 inches on at least one side) for clearance.

He could easily hide it with a false screen wall.

On the length issue keep in mind that there are plans for the back of the room. Tom will have to comment (where is he, out golfing?) on how valuable the real estate is and his willingness to part with it or reconsider his viewing distance. I think there is some wiggle room on bringing the screen out a bit, maybe the 18 inches for the various speakers including the Sub. There is however no room for a walkway. All three sides of this end of his basement are exterior walls so there is no other access to the panel location.

I think another option for Tom to consider to get a wider screen is going with exposed L/R speakers. Keeping the stage and soffit work but just putting the speakers on the stage as far to the side as possible and toeing in a bit. Then hanging curtains on both sides.

It would then be real easy to get to the electrical box.

Similar look to:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/redonepaint-1.jpg

Tom will have to comment (where is he, out golfing?)

I just realized that once again he has managed to get the rest of us to do all the heavy lifting.

I KNEW Big would come through. And it was his idea to get additional input. So far, great ideas....THANKS! and keep 'em coming.

Basically, Big sketched out pretty much what I had in mind from the begining. We talked about alternatives, different things we could try with the soffit, the ceiling, etc. It's really nice to see it on paper.

Attached is picture of the floorplan from the builder's brochure, with some of my original modifications. The measurements and window and sliding door placement are not exact either, but close. BIG'S are accurate. There is an expansion joint in the concrete at 17' back from the front wall. It's about 31' from the front wall to the wall in front of the mechanicals and another 3-4 feet to the back of the closet next to it. However, that closet will actually be the equipment rack and DVD/game storage.

So I can't flip the room....its either the mechanicals or the electric panel behind the screen wall. Plus that would put the sliding door right in the middle of the seating area,. As it is, the two windows in the current design will be covered, so it stays fairly dark all the time. I don't think the sliding door will pose an issue behind the seating.

The biggest issue is, as Big ntoed, the soffit and the ceiling height over the seating area. My thought is to get four individual chairs, leave two of them in the prime location, and place the others along side if needed for movies, or most of the time turn them so that their backs face the sidewalls for more of party/conversation room feel.

I am planing a wet bar (one of these days HeyNow^ it will be YOUR turn!) and a two seat dry bar behind the theaters seats if it will fit.

I realize NOW there are some things I could have done to make the room better, like, move the bathroom and storage area to what is now the theater area and I would have had that entire bigger half of the room WITHOUT the soffit and electric panel issue. I can't even imagine how long it would take if I had to do all that first!

I know there are some great minds out there....I'm listening.

I do have wiggle room on the viewing distance. I just took a quick measurement...prime seating location would put your head betweem 13 & 14 feet back from the front wall. So I think moving the screen out an additonal 18" would work.

C'mon Tom, get a photobucket account!

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/Other/new_basement_floorplan.jpg

I know, I know...the problem is I work on a secure network that won't linked images show up. As long as I click on a link it's OK. So most of the time I can't see the pic until I get home...this way I can click and see them sooner.

Off to finish setting up Halloween yard decorations!

Big - the curtains approach is growing on me.

Big - the curtains approach is growing on me.

It could be used as a masking strategy

I just realized that once again he has managed to get the rest of us to do all the heavy lifting.

I bet his favorite book is Tom Sawyer. ;)

C'mon Tom, get a photobucket account!

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/Other/new_basement_floorplan.jpg

Where would the "big ass" soffit be located on this drawing? Meaning does it go all the way back and above the wet bar?

I've got an idea, I'll try to draw it up this weekend. Although I have no idea of Logan's style... fun challenge though...

The amazing Biggie delivers again. :)

Well, when I saw this thread and that soffit on the right side, I thought of Poco’s screen wall. :)

http://www.hyunkimdesign.com/images/ht/ht_08.jpg
Below is the finished product.

http://www.hyunkimdesign.com/images/ht/ht_37.jpg

http://www.hyunkimdesign.com/images/ht/ht_56.jpg


If you ask me, it looks VERY similar to the wall/ceiling lay-out of Logans space.
Here is Pocoloco's thread. :) Hope this helps.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1036161&highlight=pocoloco

While Poco's design is elegantly simple I think the High contrast of the black surround and the bite taken out by the duct in the upper right hand corner keeps pulling your eye to the upper right corner and draws attention to the duct. One solution in Poco's would be to paint the ceiling and duct black so there is no contrast. Maybe paint a strip at the top of the left wall the height of the soffit black as well to visually balance the room.

Demo:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/POCO.jpg

OK, I drew this up last night while watching my Bulls get thumped by the Celtics...

I went with a 2.35 screen, and the two panels on either side of the screen can be pressure fitted, velcro, or hinged, to allow access behind the screen and to the electrical panel. This assumes the screen wall is 2 feet from the rear wall, to allow for the speakers behind the screen.

Screen size here is 110x47, frame 117x54. 16 inches on either side then for the removable access panels.


http://www.thehometheaterbook.com/images/Pics2/logan.jpg

WarrenP:

That looks awesome!

CJ

While Poco's design is elegantly simple I think the High contrast of the black surround and the bite taken out by the duct in the upper right hand corner keeps pulling your eye to the upper right corner and draws attention to the duct. One solution in Poco's would be to paint the ceiling and duct black so there is no contrast. Maybe paint a strip at the top of the left wall the height of the soffit black as well to visually balance the room.

Demo:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/POCO.jpg

Yes, Poco's design is very clean and simple. I think he hit the mark quite nicely with his room situation.
I also like the black painted ceiling idea. Though I suspect Poco has already thought of it.
Warren, you are quite the artist.

I like Big's design, but am a big fan of the symmetrical look, so I'd duplicate the soffit on the other side. Would make for a neat rope light/star panel section. You can always create a section of soffit in the back to connect the 2 side soffits (good place for a hidden projector or in ceiling rear surrounds).

To this:
http://images42.fotki.com/v1374/photos/6/649633/3402899/logan2-vi.jpg

From this:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/loganaddGOMcoveredframesand96inchwi.jpg

And a black carpeted stage of course.

Bud

Great ideas!

The LOGANESS chimes in:

On Big's sketch: "WOW! We can have that in OUR basement?" And "it looks like something on HGTV!"

On You are quite right that it needs to be simple so that even our significant others can get to it.: "Damn right! If the lights went out while you were gone and I had to sit in the dark for a couple of hours because I couldn't find it, you'd come home to a LOT of bitchin!"

On the butt kicking pic: LOL

On the exposed speakers: Crinkled nose, "no."

On Poco's wall: "if we HAD to...."

On Warrenp's: "Hmmm. Too boxy. I liked the angled sides of the other one. What if we could put columns, like, Greek columns, on the sides? Or maybe red velvet curtains (small smile), that you move in and out, automatically? (BIG smile)"

This is me on Chinadog's: That is EXACTLY what I wanted to do in the first place. If I had 8 foot ceilings, that IS what I would have done and we wouldn't be here today. After measuring out the matching soffit, the remaining headroom would not meet code.

One of my ideas on Big's original sketch...run crown moulding along the bottom edge of the soffit (the edge closer to the room, NOT the wall edge) for rope lighting and then maybe just run a 2X4 with crown and rope at the same height along the oppostie wall and paint the wall above the 2X4 the same as the soffit. This would give the illusion of a soffit. Or would it?

So, there are a few idea on your guys' suggestions. Maybe some feed back on FR & FL speaker placement to know if the column or curtain idea will work. Since the screen is transparent but the curtains aren't, I don't think it will work, but there are a lot more knowlegeable people than me out there.

Great ideas, really appreciate the input! I'm STILL listening.

Tom,

It looks like your space is similar in dimension to mine including the fireplace bump out. I found that there really wasn't enough room to add in curtains. The Left and Right front speakers are located behind the columns and the center speaker and one of the subwoofers are behind the screen in the space created by the bump out.

Here's a few shots of how I ended up finishing mine. It might give you some ideas.

Just Sheetrock:

http://images44.fotki.com/v1357/photos/1/1068290/6879731/LookingForwardSheetrock800x600-vi.jpg


Painted with Stage, soffits and lights:

http://images44.fotki.com/v1358/photos/1/1068290/6879731/HTLookingForwardPaint800x600-vi.jpg


Finished:

http://images33.fotki.com/v1142/photos/1/1068290/6879731/TLookingForwardFinished800x600-vi.jpg


I can't really find any good pictures of the screen wall framework. Once everything got painted black it was real difficult to take photos.

Let me know if you want to come back over some night and I'll take apart the screen wall and show you how all the pieces were built and go together.

Regards,

BillMac

I like Big's design, but am a big fan of the symmetrical look, so I'd duplicate the soffit on the other side. Would make for a neat rope light/star panel section. You can always create a section of soffit in the back to connect the 2 side soffits (good place for a hidden projector or in ceiling rear surrounds).

To this:
http://images42.fotki.com/v1374/photos/6/649633/3402899/logan2-vi.jpg

From this:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/loganaddGOMcoveredframesand96inchwi.jpg

And a black carpeted stage of course.

Bud

My vote goes for the symmetrical layout. Nice job Bud.

I am with Bud, you have to have symmetry. I was drawing in my head what Bud proposed the minute I saw Bigg's first drawing.

What is the ductwork composed of? It is it a supply and return? I had both running down one side when I started and ended up moving the return to the other side of the room.

I really think you need to think outside the box.

Poco's project turned out very classy but the soffit and windows say "family room in basement with big screen" rather than theater. If I had to guess, he was not designing a "bat cave theater" with ultimate light control etc. He was designing a very classy room with which to place a large screen.

Can the duct work be moved?
Can the duct work be divided to both sides of the room?
Can you divide and use narrower, wider duct work to accomplish the same function?

At 30+ inches wide you should be able to get the 11 inches of depth of that duct work down to 6 or less.

I am sure the whole star light ceiling is cool but I now have my crown with rope light around the raised center celling of the room and I feel it MAKES the room. The raised center ceiling just gives you so many more lighting options.

As suggested, if you carry the soffit around, if gives you a cubbie to throw the projector in.

Symmetry is KING. Treat it as such.

I've always been a proponent of balance and creating false soffits to make the room look balanced.

However Guys (and Queen), if you could stand in the space and look at the head room and the proportions you would understand that the soffit can not go around the other side.

First my perspective drawings give a false sense of space the closer to the viewer. The higher part would only be 6 feet wide. Further complementing matters is that the duct work expands to 44 inches (that's 8 more inches) about 10 feet back from the screen wall.

Next the theater is on only one end of the room. and you wouldn't bring the soffit around the whole room. So if you did a left soffit you would need to stub it off some place on that outside wall or bring it across just behind where the projector would go and you could actually build a shelf in the soffit as Bud suggested.

The only problem is that the headroom under this soffit is 6 ft 5 1/2 inches. Look at a standard door and subtract 3 inches that's about it.

Tom has his room framed,wired and plumbed. Early on he made the made the decision that duct rerouting was outside the scope of what he wanted to tackle and/or pay for.

So we have this lemon of a room and we are working on making lemonade.

Tom, wants to bring in a little Caesar's Palace with columns probably as a tribute to Frank. For everyones info Tom plays in a big swing band. Maybe we could make that happen, just need to make the one on the right swing out of the way for access. Tom, they could even be in front of the the drapes that you are contemplating.

I like how Warren treated the front wall and I can see columns on the far L/R in front of curtains. I think the soffit actually looks a little more appropriate for sitting on top of columns than mine.

Bills nearly all black theater is a good example of how a black ceiling can help you out if you have a low ceiling because you can't tell what the ceiling height is. I've been looking for some time for that shot of the carpet. I don't think it has made it's way to the show me your carpet thead yet and it deserves to be there. It's classy.

Keep the ideas coming.

How about a picture of the space as is? Might be in his thread, but would be applicable here. Sure would help. Any way to move the duct or redo the duct? Might be a pain in the ass and costly, but may be worth it in the end. I like Warren's little bump out as well on the upper left side. Gives some symmetry (at least some balance).

Who was the guy in Chicago who went down to get more room (broke up the concrete floor section to get that tiered look and multiple seating platforms). You know, if money is no object. :)

Bud

I was in a similar situation with a wide soffit on one side. My basement layout is almost identical to Logan's. The room is only 11' wide, and the soffit is 3' wide. It would have looked weird to add a soffit on the other side. And as BIG said, with an open room behind it, you'd have to stop the soffit at some point. Additionally, the soffit would have went over my riser. so I would have had 8' ceilings minus 1' for the riser plus another 1' for the soffit, so it would have been barely 6' clearance under the soffit.

In my previous HT build, BIG recommended painting the soffit and ceiling all one color to minimize the appearance of it, and he was right. when I recently rebuilt it, I took his advise again and it turned out real well:

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq308/koach0425/completed/_MG_8321.jpg

Tom,
Painted with Stage, soffits and lights:

http://images44.fotki.com/v1358/photos/1/1068290/6879731/HTLookingForwardPaint800x600-vi.jpg


Bill:

Why did you paint the walls when you were going to put fabric up?

I'm wondering if I need to paint my walls now...

CJ

I'm wondering if I need to paint my walls now...
CJ

Can't speak for Bill but my OCD made me paint the furring strips and the first adjoining inch of the wall just so that they couldn't peak through the edges of the Linacoustic and fabric.

Bill:

Why did you paint the walls when you were going to put fabric up?

I'm wondering if I need to paint my walls now...

CJ

Yeah, I just wanted the room to have a coat of paint; not sure at the time as far as the amount of treatments I was going to apply or the amount of translucency of the GOM. Plus I had enough paint.

BillMac

How about rerouting the duct work so it comes DOWN the center of the screen wall, inside the recess and, then under the stage and along the right wall? Then build built-in seating over the top of the duct...

Biggy: My thoughts exactly...but the entire wall? Looks as though Bill did a good job with it though.

Bill:

Got you. You had me worried there. I was contemplating aving to paint the walls too. I think I'll go as Biggy did and paint the furring strips only.

Whew...dodged a small bullet there!

Thanks guys for the help.

CJ

How about rerouting the duct work so it comes DOWN the center of the screen wall, inside the recess and, then under the stage and along the right wall? Then build built-in seating over the top of the duct...

Not sure if I quite understand this suggestion. It is the main feeder trunk for the house with duct takeoffs along the length that feed the upstairs. It starts in the utility room and goes all the way to the end of house.

I too prefer the symetry of soffets on both sides but agree to that 6' 5.5" is probably too low. Think Bigs original design or Warren's with ceiling painted black or dark blue would work.

If you could live with 6' 5.5" on both sides you could turn the soffet before the patio doors like I did with mine (I'm about 7' under soffets)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/BritInVA/Other/6129381d.jpg

Koach - the black makes a big difference. I saw your old build, and you've made big improvements.

Ceasers palace, huh?

http://theater.stevejenkins.com/gallery/complete/p6_24.jpg

http://theater.stevejenkins.com/gallery/complete/

Actually, Videocam's thread might be a better source for columns. I know he put a link in his thread - I think the way he pulled the front columns into the room a bit might be a good thing with the electrical panel, and the curtains behind, as well. . .

http://lh5.ggpht.com/videocam/SGMYoRtYvPI/AAAAAAAAC8I/gNfAQ0s9-pc/IMG_2021.JPG?imgmax=720
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=792815
This is just cool (in Cam's theater)
http://lh3.ggpht.com/videocam/SGMYor41mCI/AAAAAAAAC8Q/82_JwB6Y8Bs/IMG_2024.JPG?imgmax=720

Not sure if I quite understand this suggestion. It is the main feeder trunk for the house with duct takeoffs along the length that feed the upstairs. It starts in the utility room and goes all the way to the end of house.

Something like this

http://starnetservices.com/loganbasicroom1.jpg

Run the trunk along the floor and then go back up near the bar area.. Connections to upper floors might be handled by smaller ducts hidden inside columns..

Interesting.

In my previous HT build, BIG recommended painting the soffit and ceiling all one color to minimize the appearance of it, and he was right. when I recently rebuilt it, I took his advise again and it turned out real well:

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq308/koach0425/completed/_MG_8321.jpg

I agree. Painting it all black definitely cuts down on its intrusiveness.
Very nice koach.

I was thinking the same thing as Bud, I would build a soffit on the left side too. The screen wall Big drew up looks great. Just a thought, if you put the panel on the right side covering the electrical panel on hinges instead of valcro, you could have easier access.

Something like this

http://starnetservices.com/loganbasicroom1.jpg

Run the trunk along the floor and then go back up near the bar area.. Connections to upper floors might be handled by smaller ducts hidden inside columns..

Contingent on cost and level of effort, I like this suggestion ...

Contingent on cost and level of effort, I like this suggestion ...

That fact that it takes up about all the available aisle space for Tom's desired seating configuration should be factored into the evaluation of this interesting idea.

I guess we could bust out the concrete and put the duct under the slab. It's an option.

I've always wanted to try my hand at a Pneumatic Jack-Hammer. :)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/TVA_Douglas_Dam_jack_hammer.gif/250px-TVA_Douglas_Dam_jack_hammer.gif

Although I could see Biggie & me easily getting carried away with this project. "How deep were we supposed to go to clear enough space for the duct?"

http://www.mojave.ca.us/museum/images/mining/0534-080-00003a-silverqueen-dpl-10061478.jpg

Great Idea!

BillMac

That fact that it takes up about all the available aisle space for Tom's desired seating configuration should be factored into the evaluation of this interesting idea.

I guess we could bust out the concrete and put the duct under the slab. It's an option.


I can see that sump pump working overtime now....

So which way is Tom leaning towards?

I guess we could bust out the concrete and put the duct under the slab. It's an option.

If you are going to bust out the concrete, bust it all out and lower the floor. Dig until you can play basketball in there. Then you can zig-zag trunk lines any which way you want.:D

Hey Biggie, got a shovel?

Before I went to the trouble of digging down I would just put a beam inside the ceiling and make a cavity for the trunk to go UP into... Far less dust :)

Its simple to do and the room design lends itself to hiding the support columns that would be needed...

That fact that it takes up about all the available aisle space for Tom's desired seating configuration should be factored into the evaluation of this interesting idea.

I guess we could bust out the concrete and put the duct under the slab. It's an option.

Sorry I had the impression he was going to use seating like this..

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/POCO.jpg

Maybe he could get by with centering the seats in the room, running the duct along the floor on the right and having one aisle on the left. Using 3/4" birch plywood he could make the duct cover a small as possible by eliminating the need for 2x4 for structural support. Then he has the options of building a custom "rack" on top of the duct work in front of the first row of seats.. Keep it low and it would never be seen and easy to work on....

From the rear of the room, with the seats centered, I think it would look fine..

...

Tom, wants to bring in a little Caesar's Palace with columns probably as a tribute to Frank. For everyones info Tom plays in a big swing band. Maybe we could make that happen, just need to make the one on the right swing out of the way for access. Tom, they could even be in front of the the drapes that you are contemplating.

...

Big/Tom, how much Caesar's is the goal? By columns, do you mean the actual style in the Palace (they are pretty ornate), or simple round, fluted, etc...?

So, here are my thoughts on the room dilemma after thinking this over for a day or two, and what I would do if this were my room.
I would build a false soffit across the screen wall like Big recommended, but I would teminate it at the wall opposite the soffit wall (see blue in diagram). On the wall opposite the soffit, I would build a small 11" tall "soffit" that would only stand off the wall by about 2" or so and paint it black as well to create a sense of symmetry.
For the walls, I would build fabric covered panels similar to what GPowers did, and have the panel areas "framed out" using a stained wood such as maple or cherry with a nice satin or semi-gloss finish(seen as brown in diagram).
I would build all of this so that the 2" soffit, "framed out" wood work and fabric panels were all flush.
I would create some low profile "columns" that would only sit off the rest of the wall by say 1/2-3/4 inch and had a simple raised wood panel on it that stood off by 1/4-1/2 inch with sconces mounted above this(see crudely diagrammed panels in brown/black).
At the screen wall I would then build a second "soffit"/proscenium that would be about 4 inches tall, in order to hide an automated curtain track behind(green in diagram). I would finish off this proscenium in the same stained wood, maybe with some architectural detailing.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo217/bone_pa/loganbasicroom.jpg

These are just some thoughts that I had, but I think they may help to focus the eye on the screen area and walls and take the focus away from the ceiling.

OK, so I'm watching my Bulls getting squished again tonight, so I made a few more. I'm trying hard to keep symmetry, tough in this room. First is somewhat of a combo of Big's first drawing and my idea, since the Loganator mentioned he liked the angles. Then I added a few with columns. First columns with a kind of plinth block, then without and going higher.

I went with the older style of columns at Caesars, the style that was used during Frank's primetime there. The inverted curve is also from Caesars (kind of), but not sure if it feels right, so just throwing that one out there as well.

One of the keys will be to extend molding, a small soffit like I have (with the lights) or something else all the way from left to right, just under the duct. I think that visual horizontal element will help greatly. I agree with all the comments to paint the duct and ceiling features the same dark color.


http://www.thehometheaterbook.com/images/Pics2/logan2.jpg

http://www.thehometheaterbook.com/images/Pics2/logan3.jpg

http://www.thehometheaterbook.com/images/Pics2/logan4.jpg

http://www.thehometheaterbook.com/images/Pics2/logan5.jpg

http://www.thehometheaterbook.com/images/Pics2/logan3.jpg


I like this one but with the top stage arc mathching the the bottom.

EDIT - like this

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/BritInVA/HT/efc29f5a.jpg

EDIT - like this

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/BritInVA/HT/efc29f5a.jpg


Hey guys, be nice. Tom has to attempt to build these things!

Maybe these are folks from Tom's other thread who are working up grand and elaborate designs in the hopes that it will slow Tom down considerably!

CJ

That trunk line is like a elephant in the room... No matter how you try to camouflage it , you still know there is an elephant in the room :(

WarrenP I like #2 from your post, although they are all pretty nice designs.

Hey guys, be nice. Tom has to attempt to build these things!

Maybe these are folks from Tom's other thread who are working up grand and elaborate designs in the hopes that it will slow Tom down considerably!

CJ

http://www.miasmarketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/shh.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/BritInVA/HT/efc29f5a.jpg

I like a lot. I've been thinking about how to make the column on the right slide out of the way. Maybe use some sliding drawer mechanisms to move a part of the stage out of the way.

If there is sufficient room behind column maybe it does not need to be movable for everyday type access to the panel, just need the side panel on hinges, magnets of friction fit. Obviously the screen will have to not impede on the panel and the column will need to be able to be taken down for any remodeling type access to the panel.

Hey guys, be nice. Tom has to attempt to build these things!

Maybe these are folks from Tom's other thread who are working up grand and elaborate designs in the hopes that it will slow Tom down considerably!

CJ


I'll neither confirm nor deny... ;-)

I like this one but with the top stage arc mathching the the bottom.
...



Yep, that is good. I like it also.

I like a lot. I've been thinking about how to make the column on the right slide out of the way. Maybe use some sliding drawer mechanisms to move a part of the stage out of the way.

I'd build the whole side so it moves. On close inspection you could tell, but from more than a few feet away you wouldn't be able to tell. So the base block, column, and upper block are all one piece, hollow and with wheels on the bottom. Give it about a 1/4 clearance, and with black (or dark) carpet and ceiling color, you won't see the line. The whole thing then, back panel, blocks and column roll out.

Let me make a quick sketch.... ok here is the quikc, crude, not to scale sketch (the key is to have only about a 1/4 inch clearance for the wheels so you don't see them in the carpet). Unless the carpet is very plush, I think this would work, and be light enough to move (weight is going to be largely based on the column itself.)

http://www.thehometheaterbook.com/images/Pics2/logan-column.jpg

Ok, sorry fellas. Went to the Monday Night 'Skins game last night, so I was pretty well out of it for most of the day, getting ready. Just as side note, we left Sterling at 3:30, picked up a person in Arlington and left there by 4:45. Finally parked in the lot at 6:45. I walked into the stadium as they were singing the national anthem. Got home about 3:15.

Here are our thoughts....
So, wife prefers the look of Big's original, a do I. So that is the starting point. I'm willing to live with the trunk where it is. I accepted from the begining that given the open room plan, there would be compromises. I just want it look and sound as best as it can, given the limitations. So no digging and the trunk stays where it is. I'm insulating now. Appreciate the thoughts, especailly the outside the box ones. You guys are comming in with great idea.

The cloumns are kind of a "that would be really nice if we can do it" thing. We agree the simpler columns are better. Again, I'm not sure curtians are actually going to work as they wouldn't be AT and would probably do more harm than good with the speakers placed behind a larger AT screen. Which is what I would prefer...the larger screen rather than the curtains.

So after reviewing the latest suggestions, for which I am EXTREMELY greatful...here's where I think we are.

Warrenp's last "middle" sketch looks really good. I agree with Brit that the curve of the top should match the bottom. I like the simpler columns. I like methd to open the right one as well. However, I'm not even sure that we need full columns, we could proably do half columns and have the same look and means to open.

On the wall opposite the soffit, I would build a small 11" tall "soffit" that would only stand off the wall by about 2" or so and paint it black as well to create a sense of symmetry.

This actually something Big and I discussed at the begining. Also the possibility of only using a 2X4 at the height of the bottom of the soffit and using crown moulding to create a tray for rope light.

So, would one of you master artists draw these two.....

Brit's modification of Warrenp's "middle drawing", AND the 2X11" "soffit" along the left wall? I can see it my mind, but would really like to see it on paper. Maybe include some idea of the screen size.

Same thing but with just a 2X4 light tray?

Maybe one more?
What would it look like with the angles from Big's original? We like the way that draws the eye to the screen, but I'm really liking the "WarrenP/Brit design of an original Big concept".

I think this is what you wanted..

crude sketch of Big's original design and warrenP and Brit's modification design along with the soffit..

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo217/bone_pa/efc29f5a1-1.jpg

and with a crude sketch of light trays under these soffits.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo217/bone_pa/efc29f5a2-1.jpg

Good work Bone.

Tom you could put half columns on the angled side walls:

These come in 3 pieces, you cut the bottom off the pole to get it to fit in your space.

http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/2008_Master/lg_display.cfm?page_number=708&catalog=080135

http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/2008_Master/imagemaps/images/708_01.jpg
http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/2008_Master/imagemaps/images/708_03.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/POCO.jpg

Damn... someone painted my ht!?!?! What the hell? :D

Back to Logan's theater....
his front niche is screaming DIY SUB!!! If it were me, I'd build a huge ported sub to fit into that niche along with a few 18" drivers. That would be awesome.

Bone -

YES! That is what I was looking for with one little change in the second pic...I'd want to put the rope light tay on the inside edge of the soffits so that they shine up to the ceiling, instead of the outside where they would shine on the bottom of the soffits. I currently have 4 sconces wired on those walls, so the rope light there would be sort of redundant.

Big -
Sure, those columns look like they would work. I know I've seen columns, so I wasn't that worried about finding something that would work. What is the effect of putting them on angled sides? I guess I was expecting that the angled sides would be AT material (GOM?) for speaker placement.

So now...any thoughts on how any of these drawings (Warren/Brit's with the columns VS Bones with the angled sides VS Big's angled sides WITH columns) would affect speaker placement? Or is that ANOTHER thread?

Thanks guys! We're really closing in on it!

Tom,

Here ya go...sketch with light tray on soffits, too easy.
The one thing that I see as a potential problem though is that it will bring the eye back up, emphasizing the asymmetry issue.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/oo217/bone_pa/efc29f5a3.jpg

Let me put a little thought into some possible solutions...

Allan

How about something like this?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/BritInVA/HT/3925def3.jpg

Note: I did not add rope to the face of soffit as I agree this will add to the asymmetry issue. If you want rope I would go under soffet

Looking good Mark, I think I would go with a less ornate column. But your design does a good job of keeping your focus away from the soffit.

I stumbled across this pic today in another thread, I kind of like the stage design a little better than what we have been working with. Less boxy and we could do it in the same proportions as the top soffit to make it look right. Mark The mini soffit you drew under the big daddy could be rounded on the two sides over the top of the columns to eliminate even more boxiness.

http://www.ronniejackson.com/theater/Images/stage_columns/P2040060a.jpg

http://www.ronniejackson.com/theater/Images/stage/P1010114.JPG

Credit to Ronnie Jackson.

Looking good Mark, I think I would go with a less ornate column. .

Was just cutting & pasting from WarrenP's pics - hey I come from a product management background where plagiarism is king :D

Was just cutting & pasting from WarrenP's pics - hey I come from a product management background where plagiarism is king :D


I come from a computer security background, and was just drawing up the legal papers... ;)

Looking good Mark, I think I would go with a less ornate column. But your design does a good job of keeping your focus away from the soffit.

....


Yep, sounds good. The columns were based on the Roman ones at Caesars, simple ones will be easier, for sure.

Some simple columns from Lowes for about 130.00 ea. They come pre-primed ready to paint. These have been faux painted to look like wood.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn34/tgamble_2008/PICT0001-15.jpg

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn34/tgamble_2008/PICT0002-16.jpg
food for thought

Is the space drywalled? Is there any pictures of the HVAC sheet metal? Can the sheet metal be reworked/moved over?

I managed to substantially shrink a similar sized soffit in my 9' 5" wide room. The new soffit is less then half the width, and gives me 2-3" more headroom despite it's new 3/4" plywood/5/8"drywall/GG/5/8" drywall construction.

There was a lot of wasted space in the existing soffit. The main trunk sheet metal dimensions were changed with a shallower/wider new trunk installed, that was tucked up tighter to the floor joists. I was able to completely eliminate a short run of cold air return by tucking it up into the joist cavity by sistering some floor joists and bracing the floor front to rear. The central vac was moved over tight to the main support beam also.

All those saved inches really added up and I was able to do a matching soffit on the opposite side wall. :)

How about spring loading the column in front of the electrical panel?

Thanks for the additoinal drawings!

I agree the rope lights will probably draw (hey! a pun!) attention to the very thing I am trying to hide. So, the LOGANESS wants to know if we can put letters in lights on the top part spelling out the theater name. She's thinking spelled out in lights, those little round ones like in Big's bar area. Or Christmas tree lights. I'm thinking more like Big's raised letters with backlighting. I can extend what WAS going to be the ropelight cable to the front to the backlight and switch it independently. I'm thinking one of those cool color changing LEDs from Costco.....

I'm leaning heavily towards the squared off sides and the columns. Also thinking that that would work out for matching columns on the sidewalls for first reflection points.

LOGANESS says it's MY room and I can do what I want. Decisions, decisions.

What is the Name of the Theater?

Coming Soon?
Under Construction?
Watch this Space?
Never-ending Tale?

After looking at tgambles pictures closely, I noticed that his screen is off center (slightly) and he uses the structure and columns to minimize the impact. He even has an oversize soffet on the right (not as bad as yours, but...)

Could you do something like that - same design you are working with, except shrink it a little and shift it to the left slightly to minimize the soffet? I know it wouldn't be symmetrical, but then your room already isn't symmetrical. This would also give you more flexibility for access to the electrical panel.

Hmmm...possibly. I'd like the screen as big as possible. Size DOES matter. Just ask the LOGANESS.

What is the Name of the Theater?
I was think more along the lines of...

I Got Your Theater Right Here
Yeah, YOU. I'm talking to You Theater
You Want A Piece of Me? Theater
I kicked YOUR Lazy Butt Theater

Size DOES matter. Just ask the LOGANESS.




So she finally told you about the mailman :D

OK, I walked right in to that one.

OK, I walked right in to that one.

That's what she said.

Could you do something like that - same design you are working with, except shrink it a little and shift it to the left slightly to minimize the soffet?

Hmmm...possibly. I'd like the screen as big as possible.

How big do you want it? If you can figure out how much space you need for your columns, speakers, and screen - then we will have a better idea if shifting to the left will work. Shifting to the left actually might help 'center' the room, since you have the bar in the right rear extending into the space.

Size DOES matter. Just ask the LOGANESS.


How big does SHE want it? ;) :eek:

I'd like to get in the neighborhood of 100" at 235 using Oman's prisms for constant height. I'd figure 24" on the sides for columns.

LOGANESS says I'm all she can handle. Yeah, that's right, you heard me. ALL. She. Can. Handle.

How about something like this?

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k242/BritInVA/HT/3925def3.jpg

Note: I did not add rope to the face of soffit as I agree this will add to the asymmetry issue. If you want rope I would go under soffet

Of the options given so far I am drawn to this one. I like the depth and symmetry. Having the half column leaves a lot more options for access to the electrical panel. If I ever get around to doing HT 2.0 it would be similar to something like this.

Excellent suggestions everyone!

I agree. But it's not my space.

A little of everybody's ideas.

Angled front panels in corners (bass trap on left?)
Panel on right is hinged for easy access to electrical panel.
Half columns in front of angled panels
The mini soffit on left but no lights emphasizing the lack of symmetry.
L/R speakers behind the screen
Sub behind the wall not restricted to cubby. Could be in left corner. instead of bass trap.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/DSC01854.jpg

Personally I prefer flat look better than the angled sides.......I know when I do HT Mk2 I'm going for a cleaner flat look accross the front.

Also we need to try to make it easy for the Loganator or we will still be discussing his build in 3 years time :D

Maybe one more?
What would it look like with the angles from Big's original? We like the way that draws the eye to the screen, but I'm really liking the "WarrenP/Brit design of an original Big concept".

As requested.

Won't the columns block the speakers?

Edit: Duh me, AT screen....Man, I have to start drinking, I can't think.

^^^

Is THAT your excuse, now? You sticking with that story?

Ok, I've pretty much setteld on the desgin with the columns, facing forward, and the curve of the porcenium matching the curve of the stage.

So, now what?

I know that I need to drywall before building the stage. What about the part above the stage? Do I drywall first and THEN build that? Or, do I build all the framing for it first? If I drywall first does it introduce a triple leaf issue?

This is exactly why I wanted all your fabulous input to the design of the screenwall at this time. I'm at the point where I need to know what my next, (pardon the pun) stage is.

Be careful with the columns and your bass traps. I originally was going to do a 45 degree angle like the one shown in post 96. But when I did some testing with my screen up the columns had a lot of light reflecting on them. My solution was to square off the bass traps and make more of a shadow box for the image to project into. See post 82
It works great.
Tgamble

Sorry fellas just catchig up on this one. But I am with Bud an like the symmetrical look in terms of the soffit. It also plays well with a starfield (now or future).

But either way it is looking good!

I was just looking through the small theater build thread and saw this picture and thought of Logan's soffit. I think this came out real nice.

Here's the theatre that I built in my basement. It's about 13' x 20'. I never created a thread topic for this project, but I do have some progress pics in my sig.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/91/269823040_e08c97998a.jpg?v=0

His pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34289514@N00/sets/72157594272468747/show/

Well it took us a year to get from here:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/LOGANs%20RUN/loganbasicroom.jpg

to this:

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr221/tlogan6797/basement/IMG_0587.jpg

Time for everyone to put some pressure on our resident heckler to get into gear on the next stages of his build.

Holy Mud-buckets Logan-man. You still have 10 sheets of drywall to hang. :eek:

no, those were left over and carted off...I was credited back for them. It's been mudded, taped, pointed and primed with gray primer.

So whats the plan now? Drycore next?

That bump out begs for at least 3, maybe 4, of the new 21" Maelstroms in a custom enclosure. Fill it up, and move the screen out a bit for speakers.

Why not do a star ceiling for the entire ceiling and soffit and make the soffit disappear?

Next will be to build the stage. THEN dricore around it (I don't want to have to EVER go cutting that stuff around the edges again!). Then screen wall. Bathroom, closets, wall treatments...

Why not do a star ceiling for the entire ceiling and soffit and make the soffit disappear?

Low ceiling. I measured out where a false soffit on the left would go in the room and it only left about 4 feet "open" in the center of the room. Ceilling as it is will be about 7' with finish floor in place. Fully built out soffits would be about 6'. Too low for code (yes, I permitted it).

You can get an idea from the location of the two can lights at the very top of the pic. They are CENTERED in the room. When Big came over to help design, we measured the wide part of the soffit at 43".