Hello! New here to the forums, I am aiswitch!

This is concerning picking up digital signals only.

I have a problem which started out because I bought a cheap TV set. I am using an over the air antenna. I can point my antenna and scan, but I cannot lock in channels and do a re-scan. Once I re-scan, all of the channels I had before are gone. I have verified this with the company that made the TV, and have also verified with them that I cannot manually tune channels in either.

My problem is, is that I have channels in three directions of me, and I cannot pick them all up with one scan. I have an electric antenna rotor, but it is not fast enough to pick up certain channels and move to a different direction to pick up my other channel. This was my first option.

My other option is buying another tuner and using it, instead of my built-in tuner on my TV. I will assume that some other tuners have a lock-in function on them, and then I can move my antenna and do a re-scan. I find that option to be a little expensive, but it may be my only other option.

Another thing I've came up with, is using a converter box and change channels as my TV scans. I do know the percentages that my TV picks up each channel as it scans. I can get all of my channels on a converter box, because it does have the lock-in and re-scan option. I haven't tried this yet, because I didn't buy a converter box, because my TV is already digital. BUT, I do realize that converter boxes have the 12.1, 12.2, and etc. What I don't know is, if I put my converter box on 12.1, will my TV see the other channels.

My last option is buying a bi-direction antenna, but I'm not sure that it would pick up what I want it to anyway. The antenna I have is an older UHF/VHF antenna, but it does pick up all stations that we get here, but just not all without rotating.

Thank you for any suggestions that you may have.

Any suggestions?

The converter option would limit your output to SD resolutions but would resolve the tuning issue. All subchs (.1, .2, .3) on a major ch (12) are sent on the same RF ch. If the converter box is picking up 12.1 the TV will be able to pick the rest, 12.2 and 12.3, also.

To get HD output you'd need an HD tuner that doesn't have the tuning limitation of your TV.

Thanks! I was afraid of that. I didn't know if the TV would go ahead and see it as just a signal, then play it as HD or not. I'm not real big on circuitry, but I would imagine all a converter is, is a digital tuner that converts the signal to analog. I would think if a person knew what they were doing, they could probably bypass the converter and let the original signal through.

If I could find a cheap digital tuner, I'd probably go that route.

Just to let everybody know, it's a Symphonic TV, 32 in., bought at Walmart. Might be a good thing to check the tv specs, especially concerning this particular issue before purchasing. I got it about 1 1/2 years ago, and I just didn't think to check that. I checked almost everything else.

When I called tech support, the guy had an attitude right off the bat. He acted like there wasn't any use for locking in, and that people generally left their antenna stationary. I informed him about rotators, and also the fact that the el-cheapo RCA converter had the ability to lock and search.

There are other more expensive TVs that also lack that feature.

There is sometimes a way of getting at least some more of the channels. Try to find a position for your antenna where you get more or even all of the stations but with poor signals on most of them. For example, if you have stations at 90 degrees, 190 and 300, try pointing your antenna at 245. You may get just enough signal on the 190/300 degree stations, and then on the 90 degree stations through the back of the antenna, to get a lock on the channels. Similarly if you have one direction where the stations are close/strong, try picking these up through the back of the antenna. The idea is to get just enough signal for the tuner to register the station even though the reception is poor. Once the stations are locked in by the channel scan, then you can rotate your antenna to the correct positions for good reception.
Another alternative is to borrow another antenna, even an indoor one. Just connect the two antennas using a splitter/combiner. This will probably give you terrible multipath problems and even lower the signal strength on some of the stations but by adjusting the second antenna to your stronger stations and the rotating antenna to your weaker ones you may get enough signal from all the stations to get a signal lock. Then once you have done this, disconnect the second antenna and you are set to go with your rotor..

Texasbrit, thanks for your suggestions. I've tried that already, and there is one channel that I cannot get unless it is pointed almost directly at it. It's our main channel around here, and it's around 65 miles away, unfortunately. So far, I can get our CBS and NBC channel, with my antenna pointed at about 40 degrees, but our ABC channel transmits only 50 KW of power, and it's at 270 degrees, 35 miles away. I'm starting to think that maybe a bi-directional antenna that will receive in the range of 70 miles is my best chance. Thanks again.

There are other more expensive TVs that also lack that feature.


It's hard to believe that feature would be left off. Or at least a way to manually tune.

Texasbrit, thanks for your suggestions. I've tried that already, and there is one channel that I cannot get unless it is pointed almost directly at it. It's our main channel around here, and it's around 65 miles away, unfortunately. So far, I can get our CBS and NBC channel, with my antenna pointed at about 40 degrees, but our ABC channel transmits only 50 KW of power, and it's at 270 degrees, 35 miles away. I'm starting to think that maybe a bi-directional antenna that will receive in the range of 70 miles is my best chance. Thanks again.
There probably is no bidirectional antenna with a 70 mile range. Getting decent reception at 70 miles usually means a highly-directional antenna. A CM4228 has some pickup through the back of the antenna and if you remove the screen is bidirectional, but unless your station at 70 miles is really strong you won't get a decent signal.
Using multiple antennas just for setup is probably the only thing that will work. What's your zip code? And what antenna are you using?

Antenna web couldn't find my exact address, so the 70 miles is an estimate for channel 6, which is shown at 67 miles. My zipcode is 63863, and I'm using an older UHF/VHF antennal, it's about 43 ft. AGL, is in good shape, and is a large antenna. The stations that are close to 70 miles are UHF as of right now, and I suppose that's what they'll be after transition.



The easiest for me to pick up is 23 and 12, 23 is the only one I can pick up off the back of the antenna. Channel 6 is directional sensitive, and it's my favorite channel. What's weird is that 15 is really directional sensitive, you have to be right on the money to get it, but it's not pushing a lot of watts. I might be able to physically turn my antenna around and rotate as I scan. The reason I would have to do that is that the stop is at 360, so in order to go from 1 degree to 296, you have to go all the way around to get there. As I've stated before, my scan feature is super-slow on the TV. Maybe that might turn out to be a good thing.

Thanks again!


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj208/Bothelll/Mydigital.jpg

I once had stations that were to the Northeast and Northwest and got tired of waiting for the rather slow rotor to go around. I pointed my antenna directly to the south while the rotor control knob inside was still set to north. That way north shows as south on the rotor and you can go the short way around.

I once had stations that were to the Northeast and Northwest and got tired of waiting for the rather slow rotor to go around. I pointed my antenna directly to the south while the rotor control knob inside was still set to north. That way north shows as south on the rotor and you can go the short way around.

I didn't know if that was a physical stop on it or an electrical stop. My rotor is a remote controlled one, and I looked at the instructions and didn't see a way to fake the rotor out. They only suggested on changing my pre-selected settings for the channels if I got out of sync.

I have recorded the percentages on my autoscan, and I know what percentage I pick up each station. I just can't get to where I need to be in time. Thanks for the suggestion! I will try that before I try to physically move the antenna.
Isn't this something to go through just because engineers didn't have the foresight to integrate and add-scan or a manual-tune feature?
I laughed when I re-read my TV manual today and it said that the auto-scan feature would eliminate the confusing task of manually tuning the TV in, lol.

Your problem can be solved with an antenna system that receives all stations simultaneously. You will need three antennas and two Jointennas.

Antenna #1 for channels 12, 22, and 57. It could be an all channel antenna or one of the new Winegard 7-69 antennas. Aim it at 24 degrees.
Antenna #2 for channel 15. Should be a UHF only such as a Channel Master 4221. Aim it at 296 degrees. Add it to Antenna #1 with a Jointenna tuned to channel 15.
Antenna #3 for channel 32 aimed at 54 degrees. Should be a UHF only with high gain. A Channel Master 4228 would suffice. Add it to antennas #1 and #2 with a Jointenna tuned to channel 32.

If any of the stations have dropouts with this set-up, add a Winegard HDP-269 preamp between the channel 32 Jointenna and the RG-6 lead-in wire.

Tower guy, thanks for your advice. Right now, I can get what I show as Channels 6, 12, and 23 all at the same time at night, but during the day I have to move my antenna slightly east to pick up six. At night I can move it a few degrees back to the north to pick all three up. Can I just get one UHF antenna for my channel 15, and use the Jointenna for picking that up?

Something else I've been wondering, does ghosting also happen on digital channels, or does the same effect of multiple antennas on digital degrade the signal enough not to get the station.

Aiswich, please go to tvfool.coma and enter your actual address plus the height of your antenna. Save the plots to your harddrive and post as attachments. The situation appears to get much better for KPOB ch 6 after the transition. Should be easier to pick up.

Can I just get one UHF antenna for my channel 15, and use the Jointenna for picking that up?

Does ghosting also happen on digital channels, or does the same effect of multiple antennas on digital degrade the signal enough not to get the station.

It's worth a try. You can put the channel 15 antenna below the rotor and leave your current antenna on the rotor. To do so conveniently you might like a Radio Shack U-75 instead of the 4221.

The other stations are about 30 degrees apart. Aim the rotatable antenna more toward the weaker station until you can get everything reliably.

Ghosting on DTV is known as multipath. Some tuners do better than others when there is multipath. When the multipath is bad, and/or the signals are weak, DTV reception will go away completely.