I have a CM 4228 antenna mounted on my roof and I was getting about a 75-85 signal strength on some channels. I installed a Winegard AP-8275 preamplifier this past weekend and have seen little or no improvement in my signal strength. In fact, some channels have even gotten weaker.

I've read bad reviews of this product on Newegg but thought I'd give it a shot anyways because the CM 7777 preamp was back-ordered. Is this really a bad product, or is it normal that I wouldn't see any gains?

I am now getting drop-outs on CBS and it has become unwatchable. I was better off without the Winegard preamp and just with a dinky $10 TV-set-side signal booster.

Any ideas?

Over-amplification is as bad as not enough. (Or more properly - too much signal is as bad as too little). Take the booster out when you put in the pre-amp. It's also possible you have too much pre-amp, even without the booster.

That AP-8275 is a decent amp (I have used one) but has a high gain and can cause more problems than it fixes depending on your signal levels.

The signal meters on most digital receivers are more of a signal quality meter than signal strength. If the quality of your signal (multi-path, noise, intermodulation) is already bad then the amp will not do anything but boost it all in proportion and may make it worse. You would probably have the same problem with the 7777.

Over-amplification is as bad as not enough. (Or more properly - too much signal is as bad as too little). Take the booster out when you put in the pre-amp. It's also possible you have too much pre-amp, even without the booster.

I am not using the booster in conjuction with the Winegard pre-amp. I am only using the Winegard pre-amp and saw the signal of some channels degrade while some others only improved very very slightly (if at all).

I was comparing the performance of the booster before the Winegard pre-amp was installed. The signal was actually better with the $10 booster and no Winegard pre-amp than with just the Winegard pre-amp and no booster.

My original question was: does the Winegard pre-amp just suck (as per the Newegg) reviews and would I have been much better off with the CM 7777 or is this expected behavior?

That AP-8275 is a decent amp (I have used one) but has a high gain and can cause more problems than it fixes depending on your signal levels.

The signal meters on most digital receivers are more of a signal quality meter than signal strength. If the quality of your signal (multi-path, noise, intermodulation) is already bad then the amp will not do anything but boost it all in proportion and may make it worse. You would probably have the same problem with the 7777.
Thanks. I'm new to OTA, so excuse my ignorance. How can I verify if the quality of my signal is bad without the amp?

Take both components of the pre-amp and the $10 booster out of the system -- i.e., run the cable directly from antenna to tuner -- and then see what you get on the signal-level meter. Stability is even more important than the actual reading on the scale. Display the meter while viewing a channel and see how it behaves. It shouldn't vary more than a couple of percentage points either way over several minutes. If it's constantly changing by much more, that means the tuner is having trouble maintaining a lock for any number of reasons -- overload, multipath interference, mis-aimed antenna, strong local signals, to name a few. To put it another way: A rock-steady reading of 35 with reliable picture and sound is much, much better than one that averages 85 but constantly bounces around between 70 and 100 -- even though the 35 reading is produced by a "weaker" signal.

Perhaps there is one TV channel or FM that is overdriving the preamp.

Without tools to show you - it's kind of hard. That's one reason that the common advice is to start cheap and go up (in returnable steps). One thing that would work right now is try to tune the analog counterparts and see what kind of picture you get. If you see "ghosts" etc. - you know you have some issues to deal with.

Don_m's advice just above is pretty good.

the ap8275 is a very high gain preamp with low input tolerance designed to be used in the BOONIES and only there. The signal going down after adding an amp is the typical indication of signal overload. The CM 7777 might not be a good choice either,

We need more information in order to guess which amp is best for your situation. Sharing TV fool analysis would help determine some possibilities.

Thanks for all the help! I've attached my tvfool report if it helps:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=123519&d=1225742119

OUCH!!!

With all those strong signals, only a Winegard HDP-269 would work. If you are only running 1 or 2 TV's, you shouldn't even need any amplification.

Did you check for ghosting on your analog channels? The 4228 is sometimes not a good choice at such close range; where multipath can be excessive.

Aha... you're using the 4228 and pre-amp because you want to get the US stations that are about 82 miles away, right? The problem is probably that you're so close to the Montreal stations that they're overloading your pre-amp. With the 4228, they might even overload your tuner without the pre-amp!

Actually, even without the Winegard pre-amp I wasn't getting any of the strong green channels. As you can see from the map, I pointed my 4228 towards all of the yellow stations in the US that are about 82 miles away. I was getting those without the Winegard pre-amp, but was hoping for the signal to improve with the pre-amp.

Sounds like the amp might not be defective afterall. Lesson learned. I'll look for an amp with less amplification. What about the AP-8700? Still too strong?

yeah. you definately do not live in the boonies (in regards to your local channels). the cm 7777, ap8275, or the higher gain amps will not be considered.

I would try the cm4228 without preamp aimed at 85 degrees and see what signals levels you get. then aim the antenna away from the tower cluster at 85 degrees. If the signal levels go up as you aim away, the cm 4228 would be too much antenna for you for 10.5 miles.

you could try a smaller uhf antenna for the close local stations and a separate antenna like a 91 xg for the distant channels with the hdp 269 amp...2 separate lines with a-b switch.

One antenna compromise will be a problem there.

Sounds like the amp might not be defective afterall. Lesson learned. I'll look for an amp with less amplification. What about the AP-8700? Still too strong?

The AP-8700 is still too strong. Even the HDP-269 could have problems with these signal levels.

I don't know how many local Canadian stations are digital right now, but I suspect that the analog plot will be overflowing with strong channels. You may need to try amplifying UHF only and null out the closer stations. However, that would leave out VHF WVNY/13 (ABC).

However, that would leave out VHF WVNY/13 (ABC).

There's are analog channels 13 and 12 in Canada and that will make reception of WVNY-DT hard even with a proper VHF antenna.

There's are analog channels 13 and 12 in Canada and that will make reception of WVNY-DT hard even with a proper VHF antenna.

Attached is the analog plot for roughly the same coordinates. A strong adjacent (CFCFTV/12) can certainly make it difficult. CKTMTV/13 is weak, but I just noticed that TV Fool isn't showing weaker (gray) stations on the lower channel graph.

However, the 4228 is not very directional for VHF, so it can be overloaded from the side. The side lobes for UHF can also be a problem.