The WPECDT CBS NCAAF telecast Alabama vs. Tennessee looks really good so far today. I haven't seen any pixelization - a couple of audio dropouts, but it looked like a network problem. Hopefully WPECDT has found and corrected their 77 second pixelization problem.

What a "barn burner" of a game - reminded me of a good Miami vs. FSU game!! Very little pixelization or audio dropouts during the game - thanks WPECDT and CBS Sports for a great visual HD sporting event.

I don't know whether it's the change to standard time last night or someone just fell asleep at the wheel. But WFLXDT is off the air at the beginning of the FOX NFL Sunday program broadcast in ED.

Someone fell asleep right after the Marlins game. DirecTV won't allow me to get the game if it is broadcast locally, so I can't watch the Bucs game in ED. WSVN isn't doing ED yet. :mad:

Originally posted by lwhitefl
I don't know whether it's the change to standard time last night or someone just fell asleep at the wheel. But WFLXDT is off the air at the beginning of the FOX NFL Sunday program broadcast in ED.

That makes sense except that they normally have it turned on for the pregame show at 12:00 pm. So if they are an hour behind it should have come one at 1:00 pm EST (12:00 pm EDT).

I just wish they would leave the thing on all the time. Or at least leave it on all weekend!

Hey guys, several DTV channels have been operational for some time now, but their DTV channels still do not show the program names in the D* Program Guide. This seems true for 5-1, 6-1, 17-1, 67-1, and analog 57 from my area (I'm sure there is more). What does it take to get this done? Is it just a D* thing? Or is it that these stations are broadcasting PSIP? Of course, keeping the analog channel "on" is one way to know what's playing there; but I'm hungry for a pure Digital channel lineup. And these seem to be taking longer than what I remember when other stations went live. Anybody know what's up?

The individual stations need to transmit the program info in their PSIP stream. You'll perhaps notice that there is program info on 12-1 since we do send it via PSIP.

Our engineers did quite a bit of work on our DTV signal this weekend and I'm not seeing the dropouts anymore. How about you guys?

Dave - both HD games I watched over this past weekend had very little pixelization and only a few audio dropouts (NCAAF game on Saturday and the NFL game on Sunday). I really enjoyed the telecasts. Thanks to all those at WPECDT and CBS.

As I was watching the 4:00 NFL game on 12-1, periodically the whole screen would go gray, it would reset twice, then go back to a very stable picture with perfect audio sync. Man, though - 4 times it did this at crucial moments in the game, made me insane.

Here's the response I received from 29 regarding the outage Sunday:

The DTV runs from noon until midnight daily. We will be going to 18 hours a day starting in April. We had trouble getting it turned on Sunday and we missed a few minutes of the game. We are on limited hours because of the fact that not many people watch it and as people get receivers it will be on longer. We are scheduled for 24 hours in 2005 unless things happen quicker.

Thanks for watching.
PS Fox will be 720P HDTV in 2004

Angelo " Butch" Figurella
Chief Engineer
WFLX Fox 29


Sounds promising, but I don't understand why they just can't leave it on? Does someone need to babysit the equipment while it is on? If so, then it makes sense (though noon is a bit late for NFL Sundays).

"We (WFLX) are on limited hours because of the fact that not many people watch it..."

That is a masterpiece of logic. Is it possible that more people would watch it if it were on for more hours?

I wonder how they know how many people are or are not watching? The Neilsen ratings seem to be a joke, even.

On my 65" projection screen, the digital HD, and even some of the SD channels are far superior to the standard DirectTV feeds. I'd watch the local off-air broadcast all the time if they were on, and in 16:9 format (stupid black bars). Of course assuming the signal interruptions stop and the audio stays in sync....

Originally posted by David McRoy
Our engineers did quite a bit of work on our DTV signal this weekend and I'm not seeing the dropouts anymore. How about you guys? No drop outs here during the NYJ/PHI game yesterday. Looks good.

Originally posted by HofstraJet
Here's the response I received from 29 regarding the outage Sunday:

The DTV runs from noon until midnight daily. We will be going to 18 hours a day starting in April. We had trouble getting it turned on Sunday and we missed a few minutes of the game. We are on limited hours because of the fact that not many people watch it and as people get receivers it will be on longer. We are scheduled for 24 hours in 2005 unless things happen quicker.

Thanks for watching.
PS Fox will be 720P HDTV in 2004

Angelo " Butch" Figurella
Chief Engineer
WFLX Fox 29



They didn't just miss the first few minutes of the game - when I tried to tune in the FOX pre-game show in ED at noon WLFXDT was not broadcasting. Butch Figurella's response is indeed brilliant logic! First it's likely bad speculation on WFLXDT's part as to how many people are watching the FOX ED broadcasts. Secondly, how does WFLXDT expect to attract new digital viewers if they don't broadcast all the FOX ED content. Finally, I think his response shows WLFXDT doesn't give a hoot about all us earlier adopters that are helping make this format a success.

First it's likely bad speculation on WFLXDT's part as to how many people are watching the FOX ED broadcasts. Secondly, how does WFLXDT expect to attract new digital viewers if they don't broadcast all the FOX ED content. Finally, I think his response shows WLFXDT doesn't give a hoot about all us earlier adopters that are helping make this format a success.

Len, you are exactly right. It's the age old question, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" They were forced into providing OTA HDTV and it makes no money for them = no motivation to make it work correctly. Ask someone less than 30 years old what a TV antenna is and they will point to the cable line. You see their advertisements when you watch via cable or satellite and ads are where they make money. So I guess when they start making HD commercials then things could change. Otherwise, hope that the broadcasters don't get an extension of time to comply after 2006.

Hey Dave,

Thanks for the response. However, I'm using a D* box with the Advanced Program Guide. I don't think your answer directly applies. Why? I can pull in a number of stations from Orlando. None of their channels show what's on unless I punch in a nearby zip code as one of only 2 choices with the Zenith box (then, rebuild the channel list). Then, they all have program guide info, but the Miami stations have no guide data. It makes me believe that the guide data is controlled at D*, and they have not updated our area for a while to make channels like 5-1, 6-1, 17-1, 35-1, 57, 67-1, etc. show their programming info. Can this be true?

I use an HD200 tuner. At one time a few months ago I did have a guide for 5.1, but don't anymore. The guide shows up for 5 analog on both OTA and DTV. The HD200 also no longer shows the NBC logo on 5.1.

Guide is OK for 12.1, 25.1, 29.1 & 34.1. No guide for 67.1.

I did a local channel rescan with my E-86 clone (Mitsubishi) and I lost 5-1. Now I only get it on 55-1 so I guess it's not remapping. Is this related to the guide problem?

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
I use an HD200 tuner. At one time a few months ago I did have a guide for 5.1, but don't anymore. The guide shows up for 5 analog on both OTA and DTV. The HD200 also no longer shows the NBC logo on 5.1.

Guide is OK for 12.1, 25.1, 29.1 & 34.1. No guide for 67.1.

I've never had any info on 6.1 and 6.1 on my hd200. Did they have it before ?

Ken, I don't receive 6.1 in Palm City.

I have no guide info at all on any non-DirecTV channel (OTA channels), either analog or digital. Periodically I see the text that is there change - sometimes it says "test", sometimes it identifes the channel, and other times it says some generic "programming" message. I have the STR160 receiver.

Darryl - I do not believe DirecTV has anyting to do with this - this is simply OTA signals being picked up by your antenna and being tuned by your receiver. I think the data is either just not there from the stations, OR, the 1st generation HD receivers just don't know how to handle it. Smarter people than me will have to answer that one.

Dave: Although much improved, I am still getting dropouts and pixelization on my Dish 6000. Also, it periodically reboots which is very annoying. I notice that when I get a dropout, the signal seems to drop to zero or very near. I live in Margate. These problems occur only on WPECDT. Hope you find the problem soon.

Originally posted by W4ZOO
I've never had any info on 6.1 and 6.1 on my hd200. Did they have it before ?

No

JeffBowser,

Thanks for the info. Let me share a little clearer picture of why I think local program guide may have something to do with D*. With the Zenith 1080, you can basically put in 2 zip codes and the D* will create channel listings with guide data for the nearest broadcasters to those zips. Normally, I'm in WPB & Miami mode. So I get program guide data for most channels from both cities. However, I can do a manual scan for other channels, lock one, and the guide will show "regular scheule" for all programming for that channel.

I put up a big Blake antenna, a rotor, etc. and have discovered that I can pull in a number of channels from Orlando. They all show up as "regular schedule" when I manually scan them into the guide. However, if I punch in an Orlando zip instead of Miami, all the Orlando stations join WPB stations in the guide with program guide data for the Orlando stations. Then, when I add Miami stations that I know normally show guide data, they instead show "regular schedule". If I was getting PSIP from them to make them work when the zip codes are WPB & Miami, it seems I should be getting it from them when I'm zip coding for WPB & Orlando. But that doesn't work.

I got creative and tried a different spin. I punched in Orlando & Miami because I do get to enter a seperate zip code in another screen. Orlando & Miami station program guide info showed up, but all the WPB channels showed "regular schedule".

Also, though it matter less to me, I notice that the new analog channel- 57, shows "regular schedule". Since analog cannot possibly embed PSIP, no analog channels should have program guide data unless it is being managed by D*. This makes me think that local Digital channels must be fed guide info from D* (who are probably just mirroring the analog info they get from their source). If true, then D* is dragging their feet mirroring the local DTV guide data, with established local analog guide data.

I conclude that either D* feeds the program guide info or there is some mysterious issue in the Zenith 1080 that prevents it from using PSIP if the local channels are not related to the TWO zip code settings. Any input on this topic would be appreciated.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
I conclude that either D* feeds the program guide info or there is some mysterious issue in the Zenith 1080 that prevents it from using PSIP if the local channels are not related to the TWO zip code settings. Any input on this topic would be appreciated. I have had pretty much the same experience with my Samsung TS160 showing program information for an OTA digital channel only when ZIP codes for WPB and Miami are entered into the receiver for Primary and Secondary air.

If no ZIP codes are entered then the channels just list "regular schedule". If ZIP codes are entered then many of the channels have the schedule. A few do not.

I agree that it looks like for the D*/HTDV combination receivers that D* feeds the program guide info for the DTV OTA channels.

Well I'll be..... I did not know there was a zip code entry anywhere - now I'm off to program !

That's amazing - I now get OTA channels that the scan did not pick up before I entered the zip codes. Odd. Very nice, but odd. I finally get 25-1, I used to have to watch 10-1 out of Miami for that programming - the signal strength was always iffy.

Glad to be of help. Now why don't we all contact D* and beg them to update their channel guide entries, so that many local DTV channels start showing the proram schedule and not "regular programming"?

Are we sure it is D*, and not the stations sending the info to d* ?
Maybe the stations are not sending the digital info?

The guides are from direcTV - this was confirmed by Hughes

So it is not in the PSIP, but, unless the station sends the info to D*, it will never be added to the guide, right?
I was just trying to figure out is it the TV station not sending the information to DirecTV, or is it D* not getting off their bottoms and adding it to the guide.
And then it could be both.

Key observation: most of those DTV channels lacking guide info have it on the analog channels. So, D* already has the need guide info, but is just not duplicating it for the digital channel. I think this applies to every current local DTV channel that is broadcasting. I wonder if the quantity of DTV channels that have come online has slowed D* down in taking care of this little task. Or, maybe they are just tardy. Else, perhaps the testing period is not officially over and they wait for that. Anyone know?

I would bet it is likely that D* is just not aware that a newer DTV channel like 5-1 is on the air. I doubt it is something that they would be keeping a close eye on since it is not really a core part of their business. Probably if many folks start calling D* they would become aware of it. Even better might be if the station itself called D* to let them know the digital channel was on the air.

Right, and, maybe D* does not know that the digital channel is the SAME as the analog channel.
I believe it is up to the station to call DirecTV and tell them to copy the analog channel to the digital channel.

You know that you can have multiple channels on DTV, so D* just waits till something or someone gives the order.

It is a win win situation if the station calls DirecTV and tells them that the digital channel like 5-1 is on the air and programming is the same as 5.
So when someone buys a new STB and puts in the zip code, 5-1 programming comes up and people will start (maybe) watching it.

I completely agree guys, but 5-1 has be "on" for a LONG time. I believe 17-1 dates back even further. Etc.

Besides, given 5-1's committment to DTV, do we really think they will even care enough to take care of this if it is their responsiblity. I still get lots of pixelation and I have quite a solid setup (with a relatively new STB). I really think lots of calls from individuals might be the ticket.

And if you guys are right, perhaps we could hound the stations to make that call to D*.

Not one to pitch an idea and not do something about it, here's what I just sent to D*. Now I'm going to call and ask for the same thing. And yes, I know I'm VERY LIKELY to simply get a canned response to this, but action is much more likely to get results than inaction. Feel free to excerpt and use the below to try to help get this done.


Dear Directv,

Thank you for providing such a good service. I have been a long-term subscriber (since 1994) and hope to be for some time to come. Like many people, I have stepped up to HDTV, and am enjoying your new lineup of HDTV channels. I hope to see more channels added ASAP. 2 of your direct competitors are pitching much more HD starting this month. I hope you will be responsive to this competition and out do them soon. Else, I might have to give switching to them some serious consideration.

What I would really like to accomplish with this note is to get you to update your local listings in your system for the many “local” DTV channels that are now broadcasting, but without their programming showing up in the Advanced Programming Guide. These channels have been broadcasting for months, but the guide still shows only “regular programming”. You already have the programming set up in your systems- it shows up in the "sister" analog channels in the guide, so please copy that information to the Digital channel and you would make a lot of people in my area happy. To make it as easy as possible I’ve included a listing of the channels that need updating below.

West Palm Beach Area
WPTV 5-1 (same programming as Analog 5)
WLRN 17-1 (same programming as Analog 17)

WBWP Analog 57 also needs guide info

Miami Area
WTVJ 6-1 (same programming as analog 6)
WSCV 51-1 (same programming as analog 51)
WAMI 69-1 (same programming as analog 69)

Many people that I know and I would appreciate the update to the guides. As is, we have to show the analog channel to keep up with the programming on the digital channel. This is a bit of a pain. It seems like it would be a simple update on your end. So please make it. And again- PLEASE- add more HDTV channels ASAP. Thanks!

I can't believe WPECDT is not passing through the CBS feed of the Florida-Georgia NCAAF game in HD today.

WPECDT finally brought back the HD feed very late in the fourth quarter of the Florida-Georgia game. Isn't it about time the digital stations start getting this right?

Kudos to WPECDT ! I just watched the Dolphins/Colts game without any drop outs ! Job well done to the engineers and also to Dave for staying abreast with the technical difficulties. Now if you guys could work on the Fins.....:(

Is WPBF experiencing problems during Monday Night Football. I have a frozen picture

Did it come back? WPLG froze for a minute, but came back. Thought it was just my receiver.

No it has not come back for me. I will reset my receiver and see what happens.

WPBF froze for me as well. I have called them and let them know. Now it is black. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

WPBF-DT is no longer frozen. Thanks WPBF for getting this fixed fairly quickly.

Anyone on this thread signed up for VOOM yet? I would love to have one very localized review of this new HD hardware. Apparently, today is the first big install day. Please post a review if you have Voom. Thanks!

My install is scheduled for Thursday, 11/6. I'll let you know.

Weeks after WPTVDT acknowledged they were working on an audio sync problem, the audio is still out of sync enough to prevent watching NBC HD content - very frustrating.

Way to go channel 12 - first DirecTV loses local channel 12 for some unknown reason, so I switch to 12-1 OTA. So then at around 8:45, channel 12 starts sending my receiver into the eternal reboot Again.
Damn good thing I can pick up channel 4 out of Miami.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Way to go channel 12 - first DirecTV loses local channel 12 for some unknown reason, so I switch to 12-1 OTA. So then at around 8:45, channel 12 starts sending my receiver into the eternal reboot Again.
Damn good thing I can pick up channel 4 out of Miami. I watched 12-1 OTA straight through from 8:00 to 10:00. No problems here. IIRC, you have the same receiver I have. The Samsung SIR-TS160. I do not know about the D* issue since I was on 12-1 the entire time.

No problems here, either.

Which receiver are you using, Jeff?

I have a Samsung SIR-TS160 as well - I will check again this afternoon, sounds like a problem unique to me. Funny thing - I live in Boca - Channel 4 out of Miami gives me a 93% signal, Channel 12 out of WPB gives me 76%, yet my admittedly lousy antenna faces N.W. Odd ?

Dave:
I have a Dish 6000 and WPECDT still pixilates every so often. Also, it occaisonally causes the receiver to reboot. I have no problem with any other station. I am getting a good signal and when this problem occurs, sometimes the signal drops to nearly zero. I think you still have problems.
I live in Margate.

Tony

I no longer get any pixelation on any of my receivers but our stream remains "a work in progress"...our guys are still making measurements and adjustments. They are aware of some things that are not quite right yet.

We do have, among others, a Samsung 351 (same as earlier Samsungs but for local digital TV only) here at the studio.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
I have a Samsung SIR-TS160 as well - I will check again this afternoon, sounds like a problem unique to me. Funny thing - I live in Boca - Channel 4 out of Miami gives me a 93% signal, Channel 12 out of WPB gives me 76%, yet my admittedly lousy antenna faces N.W. Odd ?

I get a "100" signal on every DTV station in Miami and West Palm Beach at home.

Tony, we unfortunately do not have a Dish 6000 at our disposal. Your symptoms sound like what I used to get on all off my receivers at home (every 77 seconds.)

Dave:
My problem is not every 77 seconds. They seem to be completely random. I started timing them. Some were as close as about 15 seconds and some were several minutes apart. I switched to my outside antenna instead of my attic antenna and the problem seemed to clear up or at least get a lot better.

Tony

No reboots this afternoon. Never watched a soap before though, let alone in HD.

Signal strength at 69% steady. Guess that is what I can expect from one of those dish-mounted half rings, eh ?

Thanks
jeff

Dave,
I'm having the exact same problem as Tony with my Dish 6000 here in Hobe Sound.
It does seem to be less of a problem during the day as compared to Primetime.

Who or what is responsible for the inconsistent ED display at WFLXDT during the Bucs @ Panthers today?

Originally posted by lwhitefl
Who or what is responsible for the inconsistent ED display at WFLXDT during the Bucs @ Panthers today?

It was the same way on DirecTv Ch 71; so it must have been from the network.

Hey Ken MacKinnon,

Any chance 34-1 will show Smallville in widescreen HD without the black borders on all sides? Everyone keeps talking about how great this show looks in HD. I'd love to see it fill the widescreen in HD from your station. Any possibility?

Along the lines of Darryls question will 34-1 ever be able to timeshift the HD feed since they do not air the shows at the same time as WB out of miami. I am glad I get 39-1 but its not the most stable signal for me.

Hey guys, persuant to post #2286, I'm happy to announce "mission accomplished". If you haven't noticed already, those digital channels I listed now show the actual programming instead of "regular schedule". To whoever chipped in their 2 cents in support of that effort, THANKS!

thanks hobe sound darryl
I tuned in tonight and noticed 5-1,. i had to rescan because i was actually showing two 5-1 channels. It works great now.
Dan

Wow I didnt notice last nite but I will deffinately check as soon as I get home tonight.

Thanks to all who helped with that.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
Hey Ken MacKinnon,

Any chance 34-1 will show Smallville in widescreen HD without the black borders on all sides? Everyone keeps talking about how great this show looks in HD. I'd love to see it fill the widescreen in HD from your station. Any possibility?

Darryl,

We would love to be showing the HD versions of the WB programs but are currently unable to do so due to the time shifting involved. We are looking into ways to make it practical to do so but I don't have a time frame for when that will happen.

I'll keep you posted.

Ken

Thanks for the answer Ken! I'll try to find a way to boost the 39-1 signal from Miami or 18-1 from Orlando (both WB), until you get a solution in place.

Also, thanks for being an active participant in this thread. Keep that HD coming.

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
I'm now getting the WPTV-DT program guide on my HD-200, but this channel is still acting a bit strange.

Before the guide was available, I had channel 5.1 set up as a favorite channel, the NBC logo was not displayed. When I selected the favorites menu, instead of 5.1 the indication was something like 165.135 which of course the tuner couldn't find when selected. I manually selected 5.1 which brought up the NBC logo in the favorites menu, but the tuner will not store this station as a favorite channel. When I re-select the favorites menu, the section where NBC was comes up blank.

Anyone with an HD-200 having a similar problem?

Same problem on my HD-200. I thought I was going nuts.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
Hey guys, persuant to post #2286, I'm happy to announce "mission accomplished". If you haven't noticed already, those digital channels I listed now show the actual programming instead of "regular schedule". To whoever chipped in their 2 cents in support of that effort, THANKS!

Well Darryl, you definitely had better luck than me. I sent D* your exact email for the Miami channels, and here are the responses I got (start from the bottom and read up) :rolleyes: :

Dear David,

Thank you for writing. We are sorry for any inconvenience this issue may have caused. A DIRECTV HD receiver can receive off-air HD signals and integrate those channels seamlessly into the program guide.

However, if these are not coming in properly we would suggest you try resetting your system which can resolve many of the problems you could be experiencing. To reset your system, follow these steps:

1. Turn off the receiver box.
2. Unplug it from the electrical outlet.
3. Leave it unplugged for 15 seconds.
4. Reconnect it to the electrical outlet and return to normal viewing.

If this does not resolve your problem, please call our technical support center. To reach them, call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

We are committed to remaining the leader in HDTV programming and we're in constant discussions with various program providers to increase the number of high definition programs we offer. Keep checking DIRECTV.com/HDTV for the latest news and announcement as they become available.

Hope this information was helpful. We once again apologize for any inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Bharat
DIRECTV Customer Service



Original Message Follows:
-------------------------

Did you read what I asked? I did NOT ask about locals in HD - I asked about GUIDE DATA for the digital locals, which YOU ALREADY PROVIDE for most channels, except the ones listed. PLEASE REREAD the message I sent and do not send back a canned response. It is this type of careless attitude that prompted me to write in the first place!

-----Original Message-----

From: Feedback [mailto:feedback@directv.com]
Dear David, Thanks for your inquiry. We do not currently offer broadcast networks in high definition. However, most high-definition DIRECTV receivers allow you to get your local network's high-definition broadcasts by using an off-air (rooftop) antenna in combination with your HDTV equipment. With this configuration the signals and related program information from your satellite dish and your over the air antenna integrates seamlessly into your DIRECTV on-screen guide. For more information on how to get HDTV broadcasts using an off-air antenna, check with your local HDTV retailer.
I can reassure you that the channels in this package are just the beginning - we aren't stopping here! We have a track record of continuing to expand the selection of channels we offer, and our HDTV lineup won't be any different. We continue to explore adding new channels as compelling content becomes available.
We are committed to remaining the leader in HDTV programming and we're in constant discussions with various program providers to increase the number of high definition programs we offer. Keep checking DIRECTV.com/HDTV for the latest news and announcement as they become available.
Sincerely,
Roma
DIRECTV Customer Service

--------------------------
DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE

[Topic Selected: Hdtv]
Subject: APG Data for Local Digital Channels
Details: Dear Directv,
Thank you for providing such a good service. I have been a long-term subscriber (since 1999) and hope to be for some time to come. Like many people, I have stepped up to HDTV, and am enjoying your new lineup of HDTV channels. I hope to see more channels added ASAP. 2 of your direct competitors are pitching much more HD starting this month. I hope you will be responsive to this competition and out do them soon. Else, I might have to give switching to them some serious consideration. What I would really like to accomplish with this note is to get you to update your local listings in your system for the many DTV channels that are now broadcasting, but without their programming showing up in the Advanced Programming Guide. These channels have been broadcasting for months, but the guide still shows only "regular programming". You already have the programming set up in your systems- it shows up in the "sister" analog channels in the guide, so please copy that information to the Digital channel and you would make a lot of people in my area happy. To make it as easy as possible I have included a listing of the channels that need updating below.
WTVJ 6-1 (same programming as analog 6)
WSCV 51-1 (same programming as analog 51)
WAMI 69-1 (same programming as analog 69)
Many people that I know and I would appreciate the update to the guides. As is, we have to show the analog channel to keep up with the programming on the digital channel. This is a bit of a pain. It seems like it would be a simple update on your end. So please make it. And again -PLEASE- add more HDTV channels ASAP. Thanks!

Hofstra:
Your reply to the first canned response was harsh, earning you an even more useless canned response. Remember - those are very underpaid script readers on the other end, flattery gets you farther than anger - their only way to deal with it is just as they did - give you dippy canned response that they won't get in trouble for, but thye know will further piss you off.
I sure am looking forward to more HD content myself. The more I see, the more intolerable I find it to look at 480i programming, especially on a big screen.

New to the thread but noticed a previous entry about audio sync problems. I was experiencing sync problem on WPTV-DL last night. Is this still an issue or do I have a possible hardware problem with my new Sammy 351?

Hofstra,

I sympathize. That is crappy customer service. I should mention that I did both- wrote and called. I'm assuming that some others did the same. Maybe it was me or maybe it was someone else, but someone apparently got through to the right person (or had good timing, or it was just coincidence). Anyway, that was a lucky break for WPB people. Perhaps you might try again and motivate the south florida crowd to try again too. Perhaps VOOM will take you there before D*. Either way, good luck.

I'm getting significant pixelization today watching the Auburn@Georgia NCAAF game on WPECDT (12-1). My signal strength meter shows a consistent 100, but pixelization is occurring on average several times a minute. I thought we were past this several weeks ago - very disappointing.

I also tried watching a little of Jay Leno last night on WPTVDT (5-1) and the audio sync problems still exist many weeks after first reporting this problem. Is this problem ever going to be fixed?

Is 5-1 generally working for you guys. I see the audio synch note, but how about the picture. I get significant pixelation on 5-1 no matter what I do. I've go the antenna on a rotor and have had some modest success rotating the antenna perfectly opposite the direction of the towers. But still, no stability. Is this still a problem and everyone has just switched to 6-1, or is it just me. I'm using a Zenith 1080 D* box with a big Blake UHF antenna. It looks very much the same as the problems they had in the earliest days.

There was a period after they rebooted some equipment way back that made the channel as stable as any. But probably more than 1 month ago, I noticed that is switched back to pixelation mania.

The audio is so pathetic on WPTVDT I seldom tune in, but when I have 'previewed' 5-1 for short periods, the video seems pretty stable.

I was afraid of that. Anyone with any speculation on why I would be getting such a pixelated picture no matter where I point the antenna? No problems on all other DTV stations.

I watch the news on 5.1 almost every evening, the video and audio are consistently excellent. No pixelization, dropouts or sync problems (HD200). Is the problem with the network feed?

(redgarding 5-1 pixelation) No, all of it all of the time- daytime, nighttime, primetime or otherwise (SD & HD). I had assumed that everyone was still dealing with this and just switched to 6-1. But now, I am thinking the problem is with my system. The issue is that I've put together a strong system (not on the cheap), so I am puzzled why I would be having this problem. I have the biggest Blake antenna (JBX-21), Zenith 1080 box, rotor, etc. All other stations- including fairly distant stations (even some from Miami and Orlando) come in well.

I do have one idea. I have an amp on the setup (Winegard AP-8275). I installed it with the intent of doing a little better with the distant stations, and it seems to help. However, I noticed that it was too powerful for some of the local stations, so I added in a Radio Shack attenuator and cut the amplification down to the +15db range.

Based on feedback on this site, I cut it to the minimum and 5-1 seemed to improve (though still some pixelation). As I understand it, the minimum on this attenuator is cutting the signal amplification to +9db. Perhaps that is still too much for 5-1? Is there an attenuator that would allow one to cut the +28db amplification of the AP-8275 back down to as low as 0 amplification? It might be worth pointing out that the bad-normal-good gauge on the Zenith is not maxed out no matter how much I turn up or down the amplification (usually the 5-1 signal is hanging in the "good" zone).

Or, if this is probably not it, I'd welcome any other thoughts or suggestions. Thanks for any suggestions.

You are not alone. I have switched to 6.1 because 5.1 has not been coming in since they announced they were digital (May I believe). The signal strength seems to fluctuate between 0 and 100 on my Sony HD100.

All of the Miami stations are coming in great here in Delray Beach and the only problem I have with the WPB stations is with Channel 5.1.

(not really) Glad to see that I am not the only one. With Len a lot further north than me, it would seem that I should be getting it as good as him. I can actually pull 6-1 some of the time, but it appears to be at the limit from Hobe Sound. The catch is that that is not good enough. If 5-1 still has signal problems, they need to fix it. If it is actually my problem, I would certainly take any steps to deal with it.

HobeSoundDarryl - I just watched about 15 minutes of the NASCAR race on WPTVDT (5-1) in SD during the NFL half time, I didn't see any pixelization. Can't tell about the audio sync since I didn't see a closeup of the annoucers talking.

I suspect your problem is related to your amp and that you are over-driving the signal. I am significantly farther from the WPTV transmitter than you, use an attic UHF yagi without a pre-amp. The signal strength on this channel is almost pegged. I do have a 10db distribution amplifier, but I supply multiple outlets from this antenna.

As an aside, I like and use Radio Shack antennas, but I have had to discard several RS RF (TV) amplifiers for excess noise Any RS equipment of this type is suspect.

In late October they told me November, shortly thereafter they said EARLY December--then before the end of the year--late last week they left a message and said--FOUR MONTHS--my direct TV is being installed tomorrow.......they are testing it--you can see it listed in guide past the 500s but you cant access it--employees only.

When and if Adelphia broadcasts HD I'll be pleasantly surprised if it looks anywhere near as good as OTA HD. Historically they have been much more interested in the quantity of choices rather than quality. One the other hand, cable or satellite broadcasts of local WPB HD unfortunately is probably the only thing that's going to make local HD a viable medium. WPB HD stations will have to resolve the audio sync and pixelization problems before customers will pay for the service in addition to the commercials.

geneter, per Joel Graffman's feedback (thanks Joel), do you have a preamp in your setup? Joel's suggestion makes some sense to me given other peoples feedback about 5-1 picture success (and I really can't believe it is the D* box or the actual antenna). But, if you don't have a preamp and are gettig the pixelation, that would cast some doubt on the preamp theory.

Also, assuming it is the preamp, what would one do at this point? The cable has been cut to insert the preamp. The length is no longer sufficient to unhook it from the amp and feed it directly from the antenna. It will not be an easy chore to run fresh cable. And also, I believe I need a bit of amplification because I tried it originally without an amp and could not get 12-1, 12-2 on the (UHF only) Blake antenna.

I guess another choice would be to test a much lower power preamp to try to bring in 12-1, while cleaning up 5-1 (and hopefully still being able to pull those distant Miami and Orlando stations. Any (other) thoughts (anyone)?

It doesn't make much sense to solve a problem caused by using a pre-amp on a UHF antenna receive a VHF station. 12.1 puts out an excellent signal, in your location almost any directional antenna cut for hi-band VHF should work fine without a booster. I use a very small 5 element channel 13 yagi in my attic (10 feet above ground) and get a very strong signal. I use a channel master antenna coupler to combine the signal with my UHF antenna, you could do the same.

IRT your preamp problem, could try a different pre-amp or simply insert a length of cable where the pre-amp was.

Yes I do have a preamp which currently is in-line with two antennas (one pointed toward Miami and the other to WPB) and conveniently located in the attic. Based on the latest poop I will try a new setup with the preamp in line with the Miami stations (removed from WPB antenna). I am leaving town for the rest of the month but I will try the new setup in December and post the results.

I currently have a RS 120 antenna pointing south and a RS UHF Yagi pointed north (both on a rotor for tweaking). In my Delray Beach location I get ALL Miami stations and ALL WPB stations with channel 5.1 the only one dropping out. Since I receive 6.1 I have been using that station for our NBC programming and getting 5.1 has not been a high priority for me.

Joel,
Could you give us the make and model of your 5 element ch.13 Yagi?

I've been trying to decide on a UHF or VHF/UHF combo for best reception in our area from you locals here on the thread.

I was set on a CM 4228 UHF 8-bay for its wide reception angle and a friend in Boca ability to receive 12-1 with the 4228, but now I've got some reservations in this set-up.

Any help would be appreciated,

Let me save you some valuable time the preammp has nothing to do with reception of WPTV 55. I live in Weston using same antenna with preamp I can get all stations in Miami and WPB except for WPTV 55 on my RCA HDT 100. With the same antenna hookup including preamp when I connect it to a Dish 6000 I can get all channels in Miami and WPB including WPTV 55 with no pilexation. Obviously the problem is at the station with their equipment. I received WPTV 55 on my RCA for about two weeks in summer when the station did something at their facility. Since then nothing, I guess this issue is not important to the people at WPTV since they have chosen to ignore the issue not even responding to Emails on this issue.

TO WPTV MANAGEMENT:

FOR THE LAST TIME IT IS NOT AN EQUIPMENT ISSUE ON OUR SIDE IT IS AN EQUIPMENT ISSUE AT YOUR STATION.

Thanks

Available at Stark Electronics http://starkelectronic.com, 5Y13S 5 ELEMENT YAGI ANTENNA for Channel 13 $38.05

Thanks Joel

Drguava, thanks for reminding me about the 2 weeks when it all worked fine. I remember that they said they had to reboot a piece of equipment and suddenly most of us were happy with 5-1. Then, it reverted back to the way that it was before, and has stayed that way since. I think I'll make some effort with the station and see if I can get them to repeat whatever that reboot was before. I'll probably get nowhere, but I had good luck with D* on that APG issue (gettting the programming lineup to show up on the digital channels in the guide), so maybe the luck with carry on with 5-1.

Here's a link to the channel 13 antenna ("page down" 5 or 6 times).
It's the Jerold 5Y13S:

http://www.starkelectronic.com/delhi.htm

So what happened to 29-1, WFLX-DT last night? They seemed to be off the air. I had to watch 24 in SD.

Yea, me too. What gives with 29-1?

I just shot the below to Dave at 5-1. Anyone else sharing the picture pixelation problem should add their 2 cents too. Hopefully it will get some results.


Hi Dave,

You posted the far below to AVS forum way back on June 19- after many weeks of a pixelating picture on 5-1. Shortly thereafter, apparently just about everyone in the WPB area could get a quality DTV signal from 5-1, regardless of the age (or generation) of their HD receiver. I was one of those people and I have a 2nd or 3rd generation Zenith 1080 (state of the art in 2002). For a couple of weeks everything was fine, but then whatever the below made you do that stabilized your signal, seemed to come undone. 5-1 reverted back to continuous pixilation mode for some receivers (including newer ones like my own).

Simultaneously, many of those wanting to receive NBC in Digital, were presented with a second option: 6-1 out of Miami. 6-1 got up and running almost overnight, and have been broadcasting a great (stable) signal since. Many just gave up on 5-1 and turned to 6-1 for NBC. From Hobe Sound, sometimes this can work for me too; but often, 6-1 is just too far away for me to keep it locked. Thus, convincing you to get 5-1 working right again is my only hope for NBC DTV.

I am not the only one out here still hoping to get a quality signal from your station. Many people north of WPB needs your team to overcome this problem. I now get every local station in quality DTV except 5-1. Even the lessor networks like Fox, Pax, UPN, WB, etc., all come in solid and steady. Only 5-1 fails to deliver a stable picture. Please don’t imply the problem is in my hardware- ALL other broadcasters signals are stable. And various parties on AVS with various hardware platforms continue to share this same problem.

Subsequent to your below posting, there were a few weeks of 5-1 performance. People refer to your team “rebooting” a piece of equipment, which then yielded a stable signal (even you mention being “lucky” below). I was wondering if you would mind rebooting again (or repeating whatever steps you took right after the below event) to see if 5-1 could again be the source for NBC DTV for the crowd that wants (or can only get it at) 5-1. As more and more people sign on to DTV, you don’t really want to lose a big chunk of your viewership to 6-1 do you?

Thanks for any tangible action!


Note: the below is Dave's own posting from June:
WPTV DT The Real story UPDATE
Nice bashing, even when I am out of town. Well from what we have learned at transmitter school so far is that our transmitter and all was set up properly. It just so happens that the electrical power that feeds the HD transmitter goes thru a Voltage Regulator. It was installed by local electrical contractor. It blew up yesterday on the regulated side, so I had my guys put it into bypass to get the HD back on the air. It turns out the contactor is now crisply burnt and so are the wires feeding from it. This means when it was installed the wire lugs were not tightened properly, so it was arcing over, thus feeding various voltages across the 3 phase power to the transmitter, the transmitter was in a constant calibrate mode evidently and the older recievers had a harder or impossible time locking to a changing clock pulse coming from the stream. The newer boxes, will lock to a pulse, then sample it for an update, the older boxes are less forgiving. So that appears to be the root of this issue. We will of course have to fix the regulator, and will let you know when that happens to see if it brings back the fatal "no lock" issue, but at least we now know which needle in the haystack is at fault...and we can focus on it for the cure. We are still having an issue with the automation software that will handle the switch to HD passthru, and hope to have that solved soon. I have talked with most of the operators to make sure they pass anything in HD, but it appears some are better than others or sometimes we do have a sync problem with the card so they must stick with the SD feed. We had checked the power readings on the transmitter, and they had shown us a pretty stable signal for power. What we learned in school is that this is not a REAL TIME readout, it just takes a sample and posts it to the display. SO had we known about this before, we probably would have checked the output of the regulator before it blew up and led us to the cause. Sometimes you are good, sometimes lucky. Dave

We are changing out the transmitter this week. We should be back on Friday.

Thanks for your patience



Angelo " Butch" Figurella

Chief Engineer

WFLX Fox 29

4119 W. Blue Heron Blvd

W. Palm Beach, FL 33404

561-845-2929 X117

bfigurella@wflx.com

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:39 PM
To: Figurella, Butch
Subject: digital



Hello,

Last few days have been having poor if not any digital reception

and no high def at all on your channel. Is this a noted problem and what is the estimated date of repairs?



Thank you

DJ Reese

Thanks for the WFLX-DT information. I found this buried on their web site:
We are upgrading our digital TV transmitter and digital versions of our programming will be off the air until Friday, November 21, 2003.

Joel,

Regarding the signle channel yagi antennas, how do you feed that signal to your STB? Can it be combined on a single coax with the feed from another antenna or do you have to use an A/B switch with separate coax? I am thinking of getting one for channel 9 (10-1) to see ABC MNF. That is the only channel giving me real problems. Thanks.

Congratulations to WPEC-DT. I watched them from 8 to 9 PM last night and reception was flawless. Only 1 minor glitch for about 1/2 second in the whole hour. In the recent past, WPEC-DT was unwatchable with frequent pixelization, lose of signal and occaisionally causing my Dish 6000 to reboot. Now keep it up!!

Tony

I use a Channelmaster UHF/VHF antenna combiner to join both antennas to a single coax downlead. This type of combiner is almost lossless and filters UHF signals from the VHF antenna and VHF signals from the UHF antenna.

The model I have is 0549, couldn't find it with a quick check of their website, but similar models are listed.

Apparently channel 29.1 returned to the air with their new transmitter, my signal in Palm City is 10-20% stronger than before. Well done WFLX!

Is anyone else experiencing pixelation and some audio dropouts on WPEC (12.1 ) tonight? I had problems during Joan of Arcadia and JAG. There were also some audio synch problems.

In contrast, last night's CSI was great. I am in West Boca.

Edited to add that we also had a lot of pixelation on WPEC on Saturday night during Hack. Curious as to whether it is my equipment having problems or if others are having the same issues.

I've been experiencing pixelization and dropouts on WPECDT (12.1) for the last two weeks. The LSU @ Ole Miss NCAAF game today had significant pixelization as did the game the week before. I thought WPECDT had pretty much solved this problem because the couple of weeks prior, the frequent pixelization appeared to have stopped. Unfortunately it appears to be back with a vengeance! I hope someday we'll be able to watch quality HD broadcasts like the ones on ESPN-HD and HDNet, but they may not happen until we have to pay for them in addition to the frequent commercial interruptions.

Len: Thanks for the quick reply. We just installed our antenna on Friday and I wanted to make sure that it wasn't our equipment. The picture on 12.1 is gorgeous...but the pixelations and audio dropouts are a real pain.

Originally posted by lwhitefl
I've been experiencing pixelization and dropouts on WPECDT (12.1) for the last two weeks. The LSU @ Ole Miss NCAAF game today had significant pixelization as did the game the week before. I thought WPECDT had pretty much solved this problem because the couple of weeks prior, the frequent pixelization appeared to have stopped. Unfortunately it appears to be back with a vengeance! I hope someday we'll be able to watch quality HD broadcasts like the ones on ESPN-HD and HDNet, but they may not happen until we have to pay for them in addition to the frequent commercial interruptions.

I am also experiencing frequent pixelation and audio drop outs on WPEC-DT. The pixelation and drop outs occur every 22 seconds on the nose. It is lucky that I can get WFOR-DT which is rock solid. The only bad thing about WFOR-DT is their rear channels in DD5.1 breaks up.

I am not receiving WFLX here in Pompano at 11:30am. Is anyone receiving it. Will I have to use D* for my widescreen games today ?

Doug

Started picking it up at 11:40.........rock solid and pointed toward miami.

I've got a Terk TV55 antenna (light green) in Lake Worth mounted on the North side of the house. I can't seem to get a lock on 5.1, although 5 analog seems okay... is this a local affiliate problem, or do I need to chuck this antenna for a bigger antenna?

I can't do without my NBC.

Originally posted by kirk_alexander
I've got a Terk TV55 antenna (light green) in Lake Worth mounted on the North side of the house. I can't seem to get a lock on 5.1, although 5 analog seems okay... is this a local affiliate problem, or do I need to chuck this antenna for a bigger antenna?

I can't do without my NBC.
Channel 5-1 {55 UHF} for me requires that I use a pair of rabbit ears instead of the large antenna in the Attic. They apparently overload my E86 clone's tuner so much that it rejects the signal completely. I use a remote controlled antenna switcher and program my MX-700 remote to switch to the appropriate antenna when 5-1 is selected. I hope this helps.

Originally posted by kirk_alexander
I've got a Terk TV55 antenna (light green) in Lake Worth mounted on the North side of the house. I can't seem to get a lock on 5.1, although 5 analog seems okay... is this a local affiliate problem, or do I need to chuck this antenna for a bigger antenna?

I can't do without my NBC.

I would chuck the Terk TV55. If you do searches you will see the performance of the TV55 does not match the price. I have used 8 different antenna configurations over the past year in a quest to get all OTA digitals in the tri county area. Since WPTV-DT began broadcasting I have never had a problem pulling in the station while it was operational. I have used various combinations of a Silver Senor, RS Double Bow-tie, RS-75R, CM-3010. I am currently using an array in the attic that consists of a Silver Sensor pointing south and a CM-3010 pointing north, both antennas feed into a preamp. This configurations delivers 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 2-5, 4-1, 5-1, 6-1, 12-1, 12-2, 17-1, 23-1, 25-1, 29-1, 33-1, 34-1 (at night), 39-1, 67-1, 69-1. I am getting a solid signal on all stations except 34-1 which only comes in at night, to much interference from the sun. I would chuck the TV go done to Lowes or Radio Shack and buy a better ( and cheaper) solution.

Well it looks like WPECDT (12-1) has gone from bad to worse. Yesterday the frequent pixelization made it difficult to watch the NCAAF game. Today the picture is so bad the NFL HD game is unwatchable!

I am also having really bad pixelation tonight on 25.1 during Alias and The Practice...unwatchable.

Originally posted by LisaM
I am also having really bad pixelation tonight on 25.1 during Alias and The Practice...unwatchable.

I watched 10 minutes of the Practice without pixalation. I have a Sony HD200. Is the pixalation happening frequently or is it sporadic?

Both the audio and video were completely broken up. As bad as I have ever seen pixelation...I could not get an unbroken picture at all on 25.1, which is a shame because it was playing fine earlier this afternoon.

Originally posted by kirk_alexander
I've got a Terk TV55 antenna (light green) in Lake Worth mounted on the North side of the house. I can't seem to get a lock on 5.1, although 5 analog seems okay... is this a local affiliate problem, or do I need to chuck this antenna for a bigger antenna?

I can't do without my NBC.

I'm have great luck with the Silver Senor here in Delray. I have it on top of my wall unit, pointed South and hidden by some artificial plants. This allows me to pick up 2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 6-1, 29-1 and 39-1 at equal strength. My only problem is with 12-1 and 16-1, for both of these I'm using the amplified RadioShack indoor antenna ($49 model) setting behind my front speakers and pointing North. The RadioShack antenna has a second antenna connection on the back with a small switch. This allows me to connect the Silver Senor to the RS antenna and to switch between the two by throwing the switch.

I haven't visited this Thread in a while; it's been about 2 months, since I've been playing with my new Sony 60" GWIII LCD...phenomenal rptv btw - 100x better than my previous 57" CRT RPTV. A new LCD or DLP rptv really completes the true HT setup (and much better PQ than any crt rptv)!

Anyhow, I'm boggled that WPTV-DT still suffers from a MAJOR audio sync problem, and some NBC shows which are supposed to be broadcast in HD are in SD on WPTV-DT (even when the "Brought to You in High-Definition" logo appears at the start of the shows). In addition, WPEC-DT has been having a lot of pixelization lately, which is always annoying.

Hey Dave McKinley...yoohoo...hello -- what gives? Your audio sync problem was supposed to be fixed about 2 months ago and Dave McRoy...hello -- what's the deal with 12.1's pixelization issues lately? I'm not trying to pick on anyone, but this stuff is really getting old and very frustrating! Please, guys, is it possible for these issues to be truely taken care of already? We've only been asking you to fix these problems for how many months? Don't forget, although your viewer base is getting larger and larger each day, your poor quality in HD broadcasting is becoming more embarassing as well. Thank you.

Originally posted by bsgoren
Hey Dave McKinley...yoohoo...hello -- what gives? Your audio sync problem was supposed to be fixed about 2 months ago and Dave McRoy...hello -- what's the deal with 12.1's pixelization issues lately? I'm not trying to pick on anyone, but this stuff is really getting old and very frustrating! Please, guys, is it possible for these issues to be truly taken care of already? We've only been asking you to fix these problems for how many months? Don't forget, although your viewer base is getting larger and larger each day, your poor quality in HD broadcasting is becoming more embarrassing as well. Thank you.

I've been frequently complaining on this forum about these two WPB OTA HD stations - especially WPTVDT. WPECDT looked like it was finally fairly stable until the constant pixelization started again a couple of weeks ago.

As I've said previously - it appears only when revenue is generated via cable or satellite broadcasts will network HD become stable. The level of performance we've been witnessing must be slowing the number of additional HD converts.

WPECDT's problems must be peculiar to areas in the north. I watched WPECDT from 8pm to 11pm last night and noticed only one minor drop out in that time. I live in Margate and WPECDT was unwatchable there until last week.

Tony

As an update to my previous post about problems on 25.1, it turns out that the problems were caused by a faulty amp attached to the antenna. It was replaced today and 25.1 is coming in without any breakups.

tell me Fox 29 WILL be flippin the switch for the football game today!!!

The Dolphins @ Dallas NFL game on WPECDT (12-1) is being marred again today by frequent pixelization. Will this low level of HD telecast ever end?

Originally posted by lwhitefl
The Dolphins @ Dallas NFL game on WPECDT (12-1) is being marred again today by frequent pixelization. Will this low level of HD telecast ever end?

Was it a CBS problem? Did anyone notice it on WFOR?

The audio sync during tonight's performance of Harry Connick Jr. on WPTVDT (5-1) is a ridiculous continuation of this problem that's been going on for far too long! We were trying to watch the HD transmission of the show with friends from Ft. Lauderdale and were appalled at the incompetent transmission.

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
Was it a CBS problem? Did anyone notice it on WFOR?

For about twenty minutes in mid-game, WFOR was sending a full screen of seriously misplaced pixels, mostly sans audio. Completely unwatchable. The signal held at 100 throughout. Other OTA stations were OK.

Originally posted by lwhitefl
The audio sync during tonight's performance of Harry Connick Jr. on WPTVDT (5-1) is a ridiculous continuation of this problem that's been going on for far too long! We were trying to watch the HD transmission of the show with friends from Ft. Lauderdale and were appalled at the incompetent transmission.

I sent an e-mail about the same 'ole issues (audio sync and not showing programs in HD when they're suppose to be broadcast in HD) to Dave McKinley at WPTV-DT, but received an auto-reply; he won't be back until Monday. Let's see if he responds and "knocks his engineers into shape" or at the very least, wakes them up! :rolleyes: This is beyond ridiculous already, considering the other WPB DT channels do not have these problems (the same problems for many months and they'll be at 1 year in a few months) at least to the extent of WPTV-DT.

Originally posted by bsgoren
This is beyond ridiculous already, considering the other WPB DT channels do not have these problems (same exact problems for many months and their 1-year digital/HD broadcasting anniversary is coming up in a few months) at least to the extent of WPTV-DT.

WPBF-DT has terrible audio sync problems. That is why I only watch Monday Night Football. I refuse to watch an other program broadcast on WPBF.

Originally posted by ANSEK
WPBF-DT has terrible audio sync problems. That is why I only watch Monday Night Football. I refuse to watch an other program broadcast on WPBF.

I've seldom noticed audio sync problems with WPBFDT (25-1). It appears these types of problems maybe specific to different types of HD receiving equipment. I've experienced pixelization at my location with my E86 receiver when others have reported they don't have the same problem. This non-standardization of HD transmitting equipment and resulting problematic picture and sound quality is going to have disastrous effects on the success of HD.

Originally posted by lwhitefl
I've seldom noticed audio sync problems with WPBFDT (25-1). It appears these types of problems maybe specific to different types of HD receiving equipment. I've experienced pixelization at my location with my E86 receiver when others have reported they don't have the same problem. This non-standardization of HD transmitting equipment and resulting problematic picture and sound quality is going to have disastrous effects on the success of HD.

I wonder if my problem is related to my receiver. I have a Sony SAT-HD200 solid signal just have bad audio sync on WPBF.

Originally posted by ANSEK
I wonder if my problem is related to my receiver. I have a Sony SAT-HD200 solid signal just have bad audio sync on WPBF.

That's odd, because I too have a Sony HD-200 sat/OTA receiver and do not experience an audio sync problem with WPBF-DT, only with WPTV-DT as usual. The only problems I've seen with other WPB DT channels like WPEC-DT and WPBF-DT are occasional pixelization (lately that is). WPTV-DT's record thus far has just been horrendous with audio sync WAY OFF every night!

Another NCAAF HD game today telecast by WPECDT with frequent pixelization.

My family and I just came back from a week cruise on the Disney Magic and last night I tried to tune in to 55-1 and voila like magic I was able to tune in on my RCA HCT 100 which I have not been able to tune in since August.

It must be that I went on the MAGIC and this magically restored the signal to mu HDTV receiver. Yes I know everything is not perfect the audio is out of synch but at least I get a picture.

To WPTV engineers whatever you guys touch leave it alone.

Thanks

I made a direct effort with Dave at NBC 5-1 in post #2346 basically begging that he "reboots" (or re-does whatever they did that made 5-1 work for everyone for about 2 weeks back in the summer). I have a fairly modern reciever & quality setup, but 5-1 has been in extreme pixelation mode since the end of that 2-week stretch.

I just got back from the holiday today and took a peek to see if the effort got us anywhere. I am very happy to see that 5-1 seemed stable this morning. Hopefully, this represents a genuine fix for those of us who were still having picture problems (and who could not get 6-1 reliably).

In #2346, I asked others to join the effort in requesting the "reboot", so whoever helped make this happen, THANKS! If it stays stable, those who sent the call to action notices should send "thank you" notes to Dave at 5-1.

I think 5-1 is a little more stable but the audio sync issue is really a problem. I'm lucky cause I can switch to NBC 6-1 in Ft. Lauderdale, which I did last night to get American Dreams. The 5-1 showing had about a second delay where 6-1 was perfect. Can anyone explain to me how this happens? Just curious.

Did anyone notice a problem with audio sync on ABC 16-1? It's not nearly as bad as NBC 5-1 but there appears to be just a slight delay on their DB feed on Alias.

I don't think WPTVDT (serious audio sync problems) and WPECDT (frequent pixelization) are taking HD transmission seriously because they don't think there's enough of viewer base. Or perhaps they're waiting until Adelphia or DirecTV pickups up the HD OTA channels and starts charging a premium for them. Neither station has been responsive lately to the many criticisms leveled because of the audio sync and pixelization problems.

Originally posted by Kenni_o


Did anyone notice a problem with audio sync on ABC 16-1? It's not nearly as bad as NBC 5-1 but there appears to be just a slight delay on their DB feed on Alias.

Ken,
I always have audio sync issues with WPBF-DT. You are the only person besides myself I have seen comment on the audio sync problem with WPBF-DT.

Guys, I see the complaints (and they are justified in most cases). But posting them here is not necessarily the best way to get the desired results. I recommend going straight to the source- contact the stations directly. Not only does this give you the opportunity to convey the problems to people that may not frequent this forum, but it also puts a living human voice to the question: "is there any DTV/HD viewers out there?" Direct contact with the stations is our best shot at getting some results. And the more of us that make the (direct) effort, the more responsive the stations are likely to be.

If you don't get the results from the designated champion (usually the chief engineer), find a way to reach their boss. When the boss inquires about "the HD problem", fuel will be added to the fire.

And, when you get results, be sure to go back to whoever you reached and thank them for doing something. If all they ever hear are the problems, it's not too difficult to picture them wanting to turn off their ears.

The much larger analog viewer base probably never calls the station. So if the relatively small crowd of HD viewers call, we'll sound larger than we are. But if we just keep posting our problems here hoping that somehow the message will reach key players at the stations, we're asking more of this forum than it was intended to deliver. Just because some of these guys have participated in the past, does not mean they continue to participate in the present. But they most certainly are on the other end of a phone call.

Take a moment and call the stations that have signal issues. A lot of cost is spent broadcasting the signals. They have a natural motivation to make it work since the money is going to be spent anyway. They simply may need a little motivation to make it work now. Call them. You're only asking them to do their job.

Just to be balanced on this forum, the HD on WPEC during the Colts/Patriots game was flawless at my house. The Cold Case show also looked great with no drop outs. It just shows it is possible to deliver a stable signal, just don't know why it isn't always that way.

WPEC-DT's HD broadcasts were excellent yesterday with just a few pixelization episodes on both the football game and Cold Case. In regards to WPTV-DT's audio sync problems (still, after many months of this b.s.), I sent Dave McKinley an e-mail over the weekend; he was supposed to get back from vacation today. I haven't heard back from him yet, but he's usually good about replying to e-mail...we'll see if their HD broadcasts (e.g. audio sync issues) get any better this week. Their PQ has been looking great from here (using the Sony HD-200 sat/OTA receiver); it's just that damn audio sync problem that's ruining it!

Hello all,
Its been a while since I posted, I have been reading though...We are aware of the problems, and try to get to them quickly. We did some work on the HD Exciter last week, and that seemed to have fixed the fringe area reception problems, good to hear. We just got in our new NBC HD box last week, tweaked the video, now will adjust the audio...and hopefully we are on the road to stability. I had to explain to someone the other day, what free OTA HD was and how to hook it up...he looked at MNF in HD on my 34" Sony and is ready to jump on board, Yeah 1 more viewer!! Keep the posts coming, they are a good source of info. And, YES, email me direct if you see something that is nagging on...the more info the better, and it will help me to get it resolved faster....I check email daily, I check this site about 2 times a week. dmmckinley@scripps.com
Dave

Originally posted by WPTV DT DOE
Hello all,
Its been a while since I posted, I have been reading though...We are aware of the problems, and try to get to them quickly. We did some work on the HD Exciter last week, and that seemed to have fixed the fringe area reception problems, good to hear. We just got in our new NBC HD box last week, tweaked the video, now will adjust the audio...and hopefully we are on the road to stability. I had to explain to someone the other day, what free OTA HD was and how to hook it up...he looked at MNF in HD on my 34" Sony and is ready to jump on board, Yeah 1 more viewer!! Keep the posts coming, they are a good source of info. And, YES, email me direct if you see something that is nagging on...the more info the better, and it will help me to get it resolved faster....I check email daily, I check this site about 2 times a week. dmmckinley@scripps.com
Dave


Thanks Dave for staying on top of things and keep us informed.

Great picture, poor audio synch. (HD-200)

Originally posted by ANSEK
Ken,
I always have audio sync issues with WPBF-DT. You are the only person besides myself I have seen comment on the audio sync problem with WPBF-DT.

Audio problems again last night with MNF on WPBF-DT. When they go to the sidelines you notice the audio sync issue. I really wish I could get the Ft. Lauderdale ABC station but I can get it with my current setup.

With Dave responding from WPTV to the forum, does anyone have information on how to directly contact someone from WPBF? I'd like to register a complaint and see if we can get a correction on their problems.

MNF last night on 25-1 - horrible audio sync. I had to watch the 10-1 out of Miami - their audio is always spot on. In fact, it is only many years of forced habit that I just don't watch 10-1 instead of 25-1 all the time. I sure hope the audio sync does stabilize soon.

Ken,

You can call WPBF Chief Engineer Cliff Thomas at the station.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
MNF last night on 25-1 - horrible audio sync. I had to watch the 10-1 out of Miami - their audio is always spot on. In fact, it is only many years of forced habit that I just don't watch 10-1 instead of 25-1 all the time. I sure hope the audio sync does stabilize soon.

Jeff--
Did you have 5.1 audio for the game? For the past ten days or so, I have had only the front L and R speakers with WPLG-DT 5.1 programming. No center. No rears. This despite the A/V receiver showing "DolbyD", which is the 5.1 indicator.

I have had two phone conversations with the WPLG chief engineer, who is attempting to get a test signal from ABC.

I have no 5.1 problem with WFOR-DT football games or with 5.1 from DirecTV.

Originally posted by Kenni_o
Did anyone notice a problem with audio sync on ABC 16-1? It's not nearly as bad as NBC 5-1 but there appears to be just a slight delay on their DB feed on Alias. Yes, I noticed it. It was very subtle. At the first commercial break I changed to channel 25 from D* and then back to 25-1. After that the audio seemed fine.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
Guys, I see the complaints (and they are justified in most cases). But posting them here is not necessarily the best way to get the desired results. I recommend going straight to the source- contact the stations directly.Along these lines I suggest putting the contact information for each station together on an index card an keeping it next to the phone, so you do not have to look the numbers up every time there is a problem.


And, when you get results, be sure to go back to whoever you reached and thank them for doing something.
I did that a couple weeks ago with 25-1. When I called to tell them 'thank you' he seemed surprised, but grateful. Let's make sure we give positive feedback when it is deserved.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
MNF last night on 25-1 - horrible audio sync. I had to watch the 10-1 out of Miami - their audio is always spot on. In fact, it is only many years of forced habit that I just don't watch 10-1 instead of 25-1 all the time. I sure hope the audio sync does stabilize soon.

Jeff - how are getting 10-1 in Miami .... outside antenna? I'm currently only using a Silver Sensor and a RS indoor antenna to get all stations but Fox 8-1 and ABC 10-1 here in Delray. I know both are VHF stations and that may be my problem.

Re Dolby 5.1: 25-1 has had this left-right channel problem for as long as I have been receiving the station. No center, no sub. I had an e-mail from them a long ways back (where I learned about this forum), that they knew there was a problem and were working on it. Still no solution, so I am more and more watching 10-1. At least the commercials are different......

Re: 10-1 reception - I have a chinky little half circle antenna - the ones that clip onto the satellite dish. It picks up everything I want EXCEPT 2-x out of Miami - the signal not quite strong enough. I do not use any amplifiers, I found, at least in my setup, that they made things worse. The worst thing is - when I moved into this house 8 years ago, they had a tower and an antenna already in place. I recall thinking - how ugly, and what a waste, as I tore it down. ARRRGHHHHH ! Wish I had it back now !

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Re: 10-1 reception - I have a chinky little half circle antenna - the ones that clip onto the satellite dish. It picks up everything I want EXCEPT 2-x out of Miami - the signal not quite strong enough. I do not use any amplifiers, I found, at least in my setup, that they made things worse. The worst thing is - when I moved into this house 8 years ago, they had a tower and an antenna already in place. I recall thinking - how ugly, and what a waste, as I tore it down. ARRRGHHHHH ! Wish I had it back now !

Jeff - Thanks for the information. I tried the half circle antenna on my STB and got no where. I got the little Zenith Silver Sensor with a RS 10db amp on top of my wall unit and get most stations with it. The PBS 2-1 station comes in great and has its own HD loop going most of the time. Friends can believe the picture off the PBS feed. I never watched much on PBS until I got my HD and now I find myself always checking to see what on it because of the PQ they provide.

Hi guys, lately 5-1 has been working on their DTV signal. For the first time since the summer, I've had very stable pictures. They said they were going to attack the audio starting yesterday and right now the audio appears synched up (the up to one second delay seems like it's gone). Do I dare say that 5-1 is now in play as a quality provider of NBC DTV? Have they finally done it? Of those other people who were still having trouble with 5-1, do you see what I see and hear what I hear? And if so, why don't we all send some "thanks" to Dave and his team?

I'll let you know after Law & Order tonight. :)

spoke with an adelphia puke at the oil change place yesterday. He confirmed that they would have HD in January. He didnt know much more than that. He thought HBO and maybe showtime, and they were talking with ESPN
We'll see.

Relative to Adelphia HD, that would be great if true. This is the 3rd month in a row that Adelphia has told someone they will have HD "next month". Maybe 3's the charm. Or, with Adelphia, is there a "3 strikes, you're out" situation?

Ok. Thank you, Dave McKinley for working to rectify the audio sync problem at WPTV-DT. Although it's still not 100% accurate, it seemed MUCH BETTER than before (from what I saw last night on The West Wing). Now that WPTV-DT's audio sync problem is being addressed, I finally see an obvious audio sync problem with WPBF-DT (25.1)...saw it last night.

Maybe someday in the next year, we'll have all WPB DT networks broadcasting stable, HD propgrams with no audio sync or pixelization probems only if we all continue to make the people at these WPB-DT stations aware that we're all unhappy and frustrated with their HD/digital broadcasts from time to time.

Does anyone have the contact's e-mail address at WPBF-DT so we can e-mail that guy and ask them to fix their audio sync problem? Again, it just totally ruins their great HD broadcasts, whether MNF or one of ABC's shows in 720p. Thanks.

You can try cthomas@hearst.com . If that doesn't work you can contact the station at www.thewpbfchannel.com .

Just got off the phone with Adelphia and they are now selling HD service in selected WPB areas. I heard an ad for Adelphia HD service on NPR this morning so I gave them a call. They check service availability and its available in Delray. I have an installation appointment scheduled for this Saturday 12/6 in the afternoon. For more information you can contact Adelphia at 866-815-3046. Very nice lady from Adelphia and said I was her first sale for HD.

Here is the deal, NBC and ABC HD stations and Showtime HD channel if you subscribe to the movie service. Introduction offer of free installation and the HD box rental for 2 months is the same as the normal digital box price of 3.95. After 2 months, the rental goes up to 7.95. So for 2 months you have absolutely nothing to loose if you already have digital service.

Originally posted by David McRoy
You can try cthomas@hearst.com . If that doesn't work you can contact the station at www.thewpbfchannel.com .

Thanks, Dave! :)

Hello all,
We did some further tweaking on the audio sync issue on 5-1 WPTV DT tonight...I was not happy with it watching Law and Order last night. IT appears much better than from a few days ago. Please let me know if you all are enjoying the same results. We seemed to track down the "magic fix" for the problem boxes and fringe area folks, we have to do a weekly calibration on the HD transmitter, which is now part of the routine for our transmitter engineer. Working hard to continue better service...
Dave

Originally posted by WPTV DT DOE
Hello all,
We did some further tweaking on the audio sync issue on 5-1 WPTV DT tonight...I was not happy with it watching Law and Order last night. IT appears much better than from a few days ago. Please let me know if you all are enjoying the same results. We seemed to track down the "magic fix" for the problem boxes and fringe area folks, we have to do a weekly calibration on the HD transmitter, which is now part of the routine for our transmitter engineer. Working hard to continue better service...
Dave

Thanks, Dave. Yes, the audio seems accurately matched now to the video...thank you. However, the video is periodically getting "frozen" (with pixelization) for a few seconds each time (to about 2 min. a couple of times). We live very close to the tower and my signal is always very high in the "good" range on my Sony HD-200. My wife made me switch it to WPTV SD cable during Will & Grace and E.R....just when you fixed the audio problem, now the video is messed up. Please help! :(

I was one who was experiencing both Audio sync and Signal problems before. When I would get a steady signal I was having the 1 second or more audio delay. Most of the time I wasnt getting any signal at all with massive fluctations. I have a Toshiba DST-3000 (E86 clone) and last nite Leno was perfect. It was a nice change to actually be able to watch NBC from the local station and not Miami's station.

Thanks for the great work finally.

I have to say that the CSI re-run in HD last night was perfect - no audio issues, no video issues. Great stuff when it works right !

Oh, no, not again....WPTV-DT audio sync WAY OFF tonight, AND the broadcast IS NOT in 1080i HD, when it's supposed to be. This just sucks!

WPTV-DT Dave, I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful, but this is all getting very old. We thought you and your team had it all fixed (finally). You mentioned in your recent post that you just got a friend to hop on the WPB digital/HD bandwagon, but did you inform him of the low level quality and stability of your HD programming? After he spends thousands of dollars for the right HD capable equipment, he might be in for a serious disappointment and come back to you asking why it looked 'so good' on your hdtv, but 'so poor' on his.

Poor quality does suck, but gentlemen, this is only the boob tube, cut these guys some slack. It's not like this is national security......

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Poor quality does suck, but gentlemen, this is only the boob tube, cut these guys some slack. It's not like this is national security......

With all due respect, we've been "cutting these guys some slack" over the same problems over and over for many months. Although on occasion, we see a bit of pixelization and a few other annoyances here and there from other WPB DT stations, only 1 or 2 stations have not really stabilized their HD/digital broadcasts after many months (and more than 1 year for some) of operation. If, in my business, I received complaints about the same 1 or 2 problems from my customers (and/or my employer) every week and every month for several months, I probably would not be allowed to continue doing my job. Yes, these guys at the DT stations are working with newer technology, and yes, we can give them a break, but most of us find it very disappointing when the exact same issues cannot be corrected in a timely manner whether related to faulty equipment or technical "tweaking."

We know they're working hard on perfecting their OTA broadcasts, but I think 99% of the WPB DT viewers (both people who monitor and post on this Forum/thread and those who have no idea that this Forum exists) will agree that poor broadcasts like we've seen in the past several months (with the SAME problems each week) is extremely frustrating. No, it's not national security, but we do have good reason to complain and make our complaints heard loud and clear. :mad:

Right now HD is a gift, in my estimation. The actual product is still SD. Therefore, I do not get too excited about problems, although it would be nice to see them fixed sooner rather than later.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Right now HD is a gift, in my estimation. The actual product is still SD. Therefore, I do not get too excited about problems, although it would be nice to see them fixed sooner rather than later.

I think you're under estimating the situation, especially when ALL the major networks proudly display their "Brought to You in High Definition Where Available" logos for many, if not, most of their primetime shows. If you don't believe this, then just pay attention at the start of the shows or look it up in the TV Guide or online.

For those who don't know...here are a couple of links to what's on in HD every week (and there's plenty "Proudly Available in High Definition" to choose from everyday):

http://www.hdtvgalaxy.com/broad.html

http://www.titantv.com/ttv/home/HDTVUpdate.aspx

I think we, as consumers and tv viewers whether watching SD, HD, or both, should expect that our WPB DT stations give us exactly what their affiliate networks are proudly telling us IS AVAILABLE and what they hype up BIGTIME. Have you watched MNF lately? Notice how Al Michaels and John Madden "show off" their Plasma screen with the HD feed and talk about the game in HD a few times each game. This isn't because they're personally so interested; obviously, it's because ABC wants them to. But, they certainly don't say a word about audio sync problems or pixelization...funny. Remember when WPTV News Channel 5 hyped up their WPTV-DT station going live and how wonderful it was? Well, has WPTV-DT really delivered (in 6 months+) what they lead the public to believe they now offer? Do we get a super clear, razor sharp, bright and vivid broadcast in "Hi Definition" from them (with audio that's in sync with video)? Yeah, sometimes. Did anyone ever mention that it might take months or years before their HD broadcastsare truly "stable" and the bugs are worked out? No.

No, no...we are not the early adopters anymore. HD is becoming mainstream. We bought the eqipment and we want to watch these shows in HD now, and the Networks WANT us to watch their HD broadcasts. Since they all have until 2006 to broadcast their digital (1080i or 720p HD included) signals, the pace has quickened. While other stations around the country are scrambling and Fox Network fiddles around with their 480p broadcasts (although they announced they would be switching to true HD soon), the WPB stations already made the commitment to broadcast now in digital/HD. That's great, but if they're doing so, they should be 110% committed to broadcast quality, stable digital/HD pictures NOW.

I may sound overly excited, but 'm not. However, since we now expect to receive what the networks are so proudly shoving down our throats, then stable, high quality digital/HD broadcasts are what we should get from our local affiliates. Having to switch from watching a program in 1080i HD to crappy, snowy SD cable (because the HD feed is unwatchable) is very frustrating for the viewers and should be very embarassing for the DT stations.

It's too bad D*TV doesn't offer local HD channels; then the WPB DT stations would have to make their DT signals a priority. As one of the many people who subscribe to the D*TV HD Pacakge, I can tell you HBO-HD, ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD, HDNET, and HDNet Movie channels all offer high-quality, pristine and stable HD broadcasts with no audio sync problems, no pixelization, no dropouts; just pure HD entertainment - and yes, we're paying for it...money talks I guess. :mad:

I was doing some scanning for new channels on Sunday, and at one point a bunch of SD subchannels came in as 36-2, 36-3, 36-4 and 36-5. The weird thing was that I was aiming my antenna toward Tampa/Orlando at the time, but I am pretty sure that these were subchannels for Pax 67. They did not remap. 2 had sound and the other 2 were just pictures. All SD. I checked 67-1 to see that it was still there too (it was). Is Pax going to split their DTV bandwith into many slices of SD? None of the pictures- including 67-1- looked very good. Quantity over quality?

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
I was doing some scanning for new channels on Sunday, and at one point a bunch of SD subchannels came in as 36-2, 36-3, 36-4 and 36-5. The weird thing was that I was aiming my antenna toward Tampa/Orlando at the time, but I am pretty sure that these were subchannels for Pax 67. They did not remap. 2 had sound and the other 2 were just pictures. All SD. I checked 67-1 to see that it was still there too (it was). Is Pax going to split their DTV bandwith into many slices of SD? None of the pictures- including 67-1- looked very good. Quantity over quality?

I get the same results but have not got video on any sub-channels but 67-1. I've gone in and delete all their sub-channels. I agree their PQ is horrible. I checked out their analog station on cable and I get better PQ on their analog signal. I don't know how they are doing their conversion but it's not being done very well. It's a shame to see someone invest their money in a digital transmitter and they provide such a lousy picture. The same can be said for WLRN 17-1.

I'me getting 5 subchannels on the Weat Palm Beach Pax DTV station, too, but not yet on their Miami station.

Bud Paxon stated some time ago that PAX's DTV business model would be all multicast and we're seeing the result here in West Palm Beach...5 channels of sub VHS-quality video.

I thought you might be interested in the results of my installation of Adelphia HD cable this weekend. I must say Adelphia has made a big turnaround in my mind. I always hated to even try and contact Adelphia because their Customer Service support was SO BAD! But this has been a really GOOD experience.

First my schedule appointment was Saturday 1-5 pm, however I got a call at 11 am saying they were running ahead of schedule and wanted to know if they could come right away. (I've NEVER had Adelphia come early before -in previous times you would wonder if they were even going to make it). Second, the first installer arrived and started checking out the my cable signal strength and told me another installer would be coming. About 5 minutes later, their head installer/ engineer arrived. I asked why 2 installers, and he said they just wanted to make sure the installation when as smoothly as possible. This was the lead installer's 3rd installation and my first arriving installer's first experience. Both seems like great guys, but the lead installer was much more knowledgeable about HD.

We did some experimenting on their S-A cable box. The S-A cable box comes with a DVI connector so we tried my DVI cable running from my Sammy STB. We found that the S-A DVI connector is not active so we connected it via the component cables. After a couple of calls back to the office to get the WPBF-ABC and WPTV-NBC stations authorized (Showtime HD came right in), all were up!

Showtime HD looked great. Even their up-converted movies look better (more color saturation and better definition). I watch WPTV (5-1) and found their signal much better over the cable than my over the air reception. I never had a single occurrence of pixelization or drop out, but haven't had a HD program yet. So I can't tell if they will have audio sync issues. I did watch WPBF (16-1) all Sunday evening. I did notice their non-HD PQ to be on the soft side. Strange cause when I looked at their analog cable PQ it looked fine. But when they converted over to HD (10-8 and Alias) their PQ was excellent, no problems with pixelization or dropouts. Maybe it's just me but they still seem to have a little audio sync issue. Nothing like last weeks MNF but a little. Maybe I'm just looking to closely and looking for the problem. Sometimes it looked like the audio was right on and other times it look like the audio was a fraction of a second late.

The lead installer said this is really their pre-rollout of HD service and that more stations will be added once they got all the kinks worked out. I'd have to give Adelphia a grade of A from my experience on Saturday!

Kenni_o,

WPBF-DT did have a slight audio sync problem last night. I noticed it too, and WPTV-DT's audio sync was WAY OFF this whole weekend. :mad:

... can you get the HD channels without an Adelphia box? I understand cable uses QAM, but the D* box apparently translates that for the "basic" adelphia package. Is the local HD in a special tier (scrambled) or is it just a part of the basic package too? And if so, will a D* HD box grab the (local) HD channels? I'm stuck with Adelphia because it is embedded in the HOA bill, but up until now, I've left it disconnected. The answer could give me a reason to reconnect.

Kennio, when you say "Showtime looked better", do you mean better than D*? Did you ask about any other specific HD channels they will be adding that are not the locals?

Could a combination of Adelphia + Voom become a strong option for HD fans?

And relative to Adelphia finally getting some actual HD on the system, I've noticed recent nights have been pretty chilly, but I thought it would have to be colder than this for Hell to actually freeze over.

Relative to PAX and the 5 channels of crappy video choice they are making, shall we all let them know of our dissatisfaction? Remember no one else is watching WPB PAX digital except a tiny segment that already has HD receiver boxes. We could be quite a "crowd" if we went direct to them with our dismay at the direction they're choosing; and we could voice suggestions for them to go HD. Could someone post an email address and phone number(s)?

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
... can you get the HD channels without an Adelphia box? I understand cable uses QAM, but the D* box apparently translates that for the "basic" adelphia package. Is the local HD in a special tier (scrambled) or is it just a part of the basic package too? And if so, will a D* HD box grab the (local) HD channels? I'm stuck with Adelphia because it is embedded in the HOA bill, but up until now, I've left it disconnected. The answer could give me a reason to reconnect.

Kennio, when you say "Showtime looked better", do you mean better than D*? Did you ask about any other specific HD channels they will be adding that are not the locals?

HobeSoundDarry - here's what I know. I too have Adelphia as part of my homeowner but I had added digital cable with Showtime. So I already had their digital cable box, which I installed myself. Adelphia has placed their HD stations up above their INDO and pay sports channels, in the high channel range (701-704-754), so it's not on their basic cable band. Anyone with a digital cable box will see a listing for these HD stations but they show as NOT authorized. I had tried to scaning for HD signals on the basic cable and with my old digital box using my Sammy (OTA) STB on cable mode and got no channels. You might try your D* box but I doubt you will get anything.

Currently Adelphia only supports 3 stations (WPTV-DT NBC, WPBF-DT ABC, and Showtime HD) but will be adding more as they rollout this service. They said HBO-HD is one. When they change out the normal digital box with their HD box, you will get the 2 local stations. If you subscribe to the normal Showtime, you will also get Showtime HD at not extra charge. So for me right now the HD package is costing nothing. I was paying 4 bucks a month for the digital box and for 2 months the charge for the HD box is the same. After 2 months, the HD box will go up to 8 bucks.

I can only compare my cable Showtime HD with the OTA programs. A couple of Showtime HD movies in actual HD looked as good or better than the network OTA programs. But NOTHING looks as good as the PBS HD loop that WPBT 2-1 in Ft. Lauderdale sends out OTA. I hope that helps.

Originally posted by bsgoren
Kenni_o,

WPBF-DT did have a slight audio sync problem last night. I noticed it too, and WPTV-DT's audio sync was WAY OFF this whole weekend. :mad:

BSGOREN - I've had a couple of private email with Dave at WPTV. He wrote me this morning saying they had worked on the audio this weekend and he hoped they had some improvements. So I know they at least are still working their audio issues. Now if we could only get WPBF to do the same!!

kenni_o, thanks for the detailed response. Based on what you say, it is extremely doubtful that the local HD will be available in the "basic package". I'll try it but I doubt it will work.

It is encouaging to see HBO is on deck. If they will pick up HDnet, HDnet Movies and ESPN, I could easily envision a switch to Adelphia + Voom. Or if Voom gets another or all of those, I think the switch may work out. With taxes and just the minimums for all D* HD (except NFL ST), I'm getting hit for more than $80/month. I really don't watch much of anything other than HD stations (with minor exceptions). I've heard Voom calling since it launched, and this combo may be the way to go.

Any charge for the local HD on Adelphia? Is there a special HD tier fee? Or are they just swapping a digital cable box for a digital HD box?

Originally posted by Kenni_o
BSGOREN - I've had a couple of private email with Dave at WPTV. He wrote me this morning saying they had worked on the audio this weekend and he hoped they had some improvements. So I know they at least are still working their audio issues. Now if we could only get WPBF to do the same!!

Thanks. I've sent Dave e-mail as well, and he used to reply to me but not lately, since it's the same problem again and again and I just get the same response again and again..."they're working on it" (yeah, for the past 6 months). It's very frustrating for all of us. :mad:

Enjoy your HD cable, though! We love HBO-HD, Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD, and the 2 HDNet channels. The satellite HD PQ (with perfect DD 5.1 audio) is phenomenal with no pixelization, no audio sync issues, and no droupouts. We had Showtime-HD, but dropped the Showtime package because we just didn't watch it too much. I may be interested in Adelphia's HD packages in the future, but I think I'll stick with the D*TV satellite HD package + the OTA's via my Silver Sensor antenna...it seems like you're getting the exact same reception from the WPB DT OTA stations on your HD cable box as we get using an antenna. :(

BTW - I read that Starz will be adding a Starz-HD channel as well as A&E and The History Channel in 2004. We have the HBO and Starz packages on D*TV satellite now; can't wait for Starz-HD...it will be nice having another movie channel in HD!! :D

bsgoren, are you reading that StarzHD will show up on D* or are you making an assumption? StarzHD has already launched and is available on Voom right now. I just saw the programming listing. On the other hand, as far as I can make out, D* is still silent about everything additional when it comes to HD. The abundent arguments revolve around the lack of bandwith on D*, which is why I feel a little interest in this Adelphia development (given that they have a good amount of bandwith). If Adelphia moves aggressively now that the HD door is open, I would guess that they will have StarzHD before D*. Many are speculating that D* won't add any new HD until at least after the next Satt launch in late spring.

Adelphia HDTV cable is now in Stuart, Fl (I had mine installed today). It is supposedily available in the West Palm Beach area also. How can I find out what locals are broadcasting HD and the times they are broadcasting?

Bob,
What channels are they offering in HD? What do you think of the picture quality compared to Direct Tv ?

not sure yet... locals and maby a HBO... gotta figure it out... it is so new, they are still learning also... but, supposedily, they have the locals which are broadcasting 20 plus percent HD at night (from what I have heard)

As soon as I find out more, I will post.

BTW, where in Palm City... I am in Martin Downs Country Club development (near Publix))

Just found out the locals schedules links etc. It is
http://www.adelphia.com/cable_entertainment/network_links.cfm

Went to Abc and it showed Monday night football in HDTV... other locals will probably do the same.

I am west of the turnpike but I saw Adelphia working out here not too long ago. What rate are they charging you for the HD package? I'm interested to know what HD channels they are offering.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
bsgoren, are you reading that StarzHD will show up on D* or are you making an assumption? StarzHD has already launched and is available on Voom right now. I just saw the programming listing. On the other hand, as far as I can make out, D* is still silent about everything additional when it comes to HD. The abundent arguments revolve around the lack of bandwith on D*, which is why I feel a little interest in this Adelphia development (given that they have a good amount of bandwith). If Adelphia moves aggressively now that the HD door is open, I would guess that they will have StarzHD before D*. Many are speculating that D* won't add any new HD until at least after the next Satt launch in late spring.

Although D*TV isn't saying anything about future HD offerings, I think it's ok to assume they are in contract negotiations with other HD channels...possibly Starz-HD (which btw the Starz! movie package is very popular with D*TV viewers as they have excellent movies every week, simliar to HBO) and possibly some other channels as well. Yes, it will take some time, but personally, I'm willing to wait to see what happens in 2004.

I read about Voom...sounds interesting, but I like the all-in-one solution that my Sony-HD200 D*TV SAT/OTA receiver provides (sat, ota-digital/hd, and cable all input into 1 box with 1 integrated on-screen menu), and I like D*TV service. I wouldn't like "renting" a cable box for $8/mo., but I'm sure Adelphia's pricing with HD is somewhat competitive. Having lived here in S. Florida for 15 years, I still see no reason to put a lot of faith in Adelphia Cable yet. That's not to say they can't do an about-face, but they'll have to earn my trust first.

Hey, we had some Adelphia (sub-contractors) out in our development 2 months ago, digging up several lawns on our street (Thank God, not mine) :). I stopped to ask them what they were doing, and they said they were "getting things ready" for a BIG upgrade in cable equipment and lines in our community to greatly improve the cable PQ. This was supposed to happen soon after; well, it's been 2 months and our cable signals haven't changed...it's still snowy garbage! :mad:

D*TV is a very good satellite service, and we watch HBO-HD, Discovery-HD, ESPN-HD, and the HDNet channels + all our lovely, high-quality WPB DT OTA channels ;). D*TV took the ball (starting with HDNet) and ran with it more than 1 year ago; now, they have a nice HD package, and I'm sure they're working on adding more soon. Hey, late Spring isn't that far away...what's that 6 months? It's been more than 6 months since WPTV-DT went live, and they still have an audio sync problem and video which pixelates and freezes up for a second or two, and all of us still watch it now and complain later :D

Although not publicly known yet (and yet to be substantiated), Adelphia (WPB, Fl area), just informed me the DVR box is going for the same price per month (7.95) as the new HDTV box (and it has the HDTV) capibilities also.

I will be there (in Jensen beach, Fl) at 8am tomorrow to swap my box out. Why they are offering (per Adelphia) a recording/HDTV box at the same price as a regular HDTV box is beyond me, but that is what the rep told me tonight.

Originally posted by bob733
Although not publicly known yet (and yet to be substantiated), Adelphia (WPB, Fl area), just informed me the DVR box is going for the same price per month (7.95) as the new HDTV box (and it has the HDTV) capibilities also.

I will be there (in Jensen beach, Fl) at 8am tomorrow to swap my box out. Why they are offering (per Adelphia) a recording/HDTV box at the same price as a regular HDTV box is beyond me, but that is what the rep told me tonight.

Bob733 - I hope you get your box but wouldn't count on it. I talked with the engineers who installed my HD box on Saturday and they said that the DVR service was still in testing. They were part of the test and said they were having some problems. They were not sure when it would be available.

I am looking to get an HD antenna for my folks for Xmas. They live in Wellington and have a Sony KP65 WS510 TV and a Samsung SIRTS160 D*/HD reciever. Can someone suggest a specific antenna I should get and let me know anything I might need to know about shopping for one.

Thanks!

Nope, they have the box (at least as of 1pm 12/09/03). Here is the catch. Eventhough the HDTV Converter/DVR (50 hrs recording (but dont know yet if SD or HD), is the same price as the HDTV converter, they will not issue them across the counter. You have to have an Installer come out and put it in!

Now 2 things really irritate me about this.
1. Why did not the installer do this in the first place (possibly, even he did not have them on his truck
2. Why do I need an installer to hook it up (I was showing the original Installer how to hook it up to the system).

Hopefully, when their computers are back up, I can call and schedule an appointment and possibly have it the second install fee waived.

Originally posted by Your User Name:
I am looking to get an HD antenna for my folks for Xmas. They live in Wellington and have a Sony KP65 WS510 TV and a Samsung SIRTS160 D*/HD reciever. Can someone suggest a specific antenna I should get and let me know anything I might need to know about shopping for one.

Thanks!

Get them a $40 Zenith Silver Sensor from CC or elsewhere. I live a couple of miles east of all the digital/HD antennas that are on 441 just south of Lantana Rd., and I get all the WPB DT channels (WPEC-DT, WPTV-DT, WFLX-DT which broadcast from here and WPBF-DT which broadcasts from north of WPB) in with "normal" to "good" signals on my Sony HD-200 SAT/OTA receiver. Just place the Silver Sensor antenna up high (like on top of the entertainment ctr), plug it into the Samsung OTA receiver (via coaxial cable)and play around with the antenna's direction for a good signal (probably start it pointing south from Wellington). If they're close to the antennas like I am, I highly recommend the Silver Sensor; if they want to receive all the Miami DT channels as well, then they'll have to get a high powered or outdoor antenna. :)

Thanks for the response. I was under the impression that the best thing was an antenna that hooked right on to the D* dish. Is that wrong? Or is it just that it is unnecessary in that location?

Originally posted by Your User Name:
Thanks for the response. I was under the impression that the best thing was an antenna that hooked right on to the D* dish. Is that wrong? Or is it just that it is unnecessary in that location?

No, I wouldn't get that thing. 1. I've heard it doesn't work well and 2. it's unecessary and ugly. The Silver Sensor is a small futuristic looking thing that works from inside your house; it very simple and highly directional. If you don't like it, other people have found good results from other UHF/VHF antennas (from Radio Shack, RCA, etc.). Although the Silver Sensor is VHF only, don't be fooled; it works great with all the local VHF and UHF based digital/HD broadcasts...not sure why, but it works so I don't need to ask too many questions. :D

Originally posted by bob733
Nope, they have the box (at least as of 1pm 12/09/03). Here is the catch. Eventhough the HDTV Converter/DVR (50 hrs recording (but dont know yet if SD or HD), is the same price as the HDTV converter, they will not issue them across the counter. You have to have an Installer come out and put it in!

Now 2 things really irritate me about this.
1. Why did not the installer do this in the first place (possibly, even he did not have them on his truck
2. Why do I need an installer to hook it up (I was showing the original Installer how to hook it up to the system).

Hopefully, when their computers are back up, I can call and schedule an appointment and possibly have it the second install fee waived.

Bob733 - looks like you got better information than I did. But I'm in Delray and you are up North. Maybe down here they were still having problem? I had the same problem with them installing my HD box. They had to come out and install it. Even though the only difference between the digital and HD boxes is the component output and a DVI connector that's not active. Beside that, the boxes are identical. It's not really hard to install one.

Originally posted by bsgoren
No, I wouldn't get that thing. 1. I've heard it doesn't work well and 2. it's unecessary and ugly. The Silver Sensor is a small futuristic looking thing that works from inside your house; it very simple and highly directional. If you don't like it, other people have found good results from other UHF/VHF antennas (from Radio Shack, RCA, etc.). Although the Silver Sensor is VHF only, don't be fooled; it works great with all the local VHF and UHF based digital/HD broadcasts...not sure why, but it works so I don't need to ask too many questions. :D

Here's a picture of my Sony 60" GWIII HT setup/family room/daughter's playroom :) with the Zenith Silver Sensor antenna on top of my (somewhat altered :rolleyes: entertainment ctr). We have the antenna connected into the Sony HD-200 SAT/OTA receiver. Until we get the built-in entertainment ctr in a couple of months, this works for now. Anyhow, you can see the cool looking Silver Sensor on top - it works great (although the quality and stability (or lack of) of the local HD broadcasts are another issue entirely and are regularly discussed in this thread) :mad:

A closer look at my HT setup with OTA antenna on top...

Originally posted by bsgoren
Get them a $40 Zenith Silver Sensor from CC or elsewhere. I live a couple of miles east of all the digital/HD antennas that are on 441 just south of Lantana Rd., and I get all the WPB DT channels (WPEC-DT, WPTV-DT, WFLX-DT which broadcast from here and WPBF-DT which broadcasts from north of WPB) in with "normal" to "good" signals on my Sony HD-200 SAT/OTA receiver. Just place the Silver Sensor antenna up high (like on top of the entertainment ctr), plug it into the Samsung OTA receiver (via coaxial cable)and play around with the antenna's direction for a good signal (probably start it pointing south from Wellington). If they're close to the antennas like I am, I highly recommend the Silver Sensor; if they want to receive all the Miami DT channels as well, then they'll have to get a high powered or outdoor antenna. :)

I can second that statement. I too have the Silver Sensor on top of my wall unit (it's a very small antenna). I have it pointing south and can pickup several FTL stations as well as most of the WPB stations. If I move it to point North I got all the WPB station with the exception of CBS 13-1. It works great. If you check the internet you can get one for about $30 including shipping.

Originally posted by bsgoren
A closer look at my HT setup with OTA antenna on top...

BSGOREN - That looks a lot like my setup. I have some artificial plants in front of mine so the wife doesn't even see it. I also have a GWIII but only a 42".

Well, I found out a couple of things:
1. Yes, the DVR is dedfinetly available (In Jensen Beach) and that was a West Palm Beach person telling me so I am surprised that they have none for delray.
2. No, they do not have to come out to instll the DVR...you can pick it up at the walk in Aldephia stores
3. No, the HDTV converter and DVR are not built into one box. They are in fact, 2 seperate boxes for $7.95 bucks each.
4. The Sony HD200 box overides the Cable HDTV coverter. To get HDTV cable, I just have to turn off the HD200.
5. As Aldephia is only showing HD ABC (Monday Night Football was great), NBC (have not seen anything (yet)), Showtime (1 channel) and (today) They said they have a HBO HD channel, the $7.95 a month extra (for the DVR) is not worth it (to me at least).

Hmmmm OTA (Free) still sounds better than Cable ($7.95 mo for the HDTV converter). But here is a question.

I bought a Wallmart (dont laugh) Rabbit ears Amplified antenna and just stuck it on top of a regular ole tv just to see if I could pick up West Palm Beach stations OTA. ( I live in Palm City Fl - near Stuart, Fl). Bottom line, I could not get good reception from my home using the amplified antenna.

However, after seeing the pictures of the Silver Sensor, and reading about the reception, I am wondering if the technology of that antenna is better than the WalMart amplified one.

In other words, would it be worth a try (using the Silver Sensor) to see if the reception would be better than the WalMart rabbit ears amplified one?

Originally posted by bob733
Well, I found out a couple of things:
1. Yes, the DVR is dedfinetly available (In Jensen Beach) and that was a West Palm Beach person telling me so I am surprised that they have none for delray.
2. No, they do not have to come out to instll the DVR...you can pick it up at the walk in Aldephia stores
3. No, the HDTV converter and DVR are not built into one box. They are in fact, 2 seperate boxes for $7.95 bucks each.
4. The Sony HD200 box overides the Cable HDTV coverter. To get HDTV cable, I just have to turn off the HD200.
5. As Aldephia is only showing HD ABC (Monday Night Football was great), NBC (have not seen anything (yet)), Showtime (1 channel) and (today) They said they have a HBO HD channel, the $7.95 a month extra (for the DVR) is not worth it (to me at least).

Bob733 - good information. I agree. I don't think it's worth it yet. On Saturday, when I talked with the installer, he just mentioned about the DVR service and said they were still testing it in Delray. He also mentioned that they were still working out the kinks. So they may have the boxes here too.

Would hooking the Silver Sensor to a HD200 be better than hooking it directly up to a tv (just to check reception)?

Originally posted by bob733
Hmmmm OTA (Free) still sounds better than Cable ($7.95 mo for the HDTV converter). But here is a question.

I bought a Wallmart (dont laugh) Rabbit ears Amplified antenna and just stuck it on top of a regular ole tv just to see if I could pick up West Palm Beach stations OTA. ( I live in Palm City Fl - near Stuart, Fl). Bottom line, I could not get good reception from my home using the amplified antenna.

However, after seeing the pictures of the Silver Sensor, and reading about the reception, I am wondering if the technology of that antenna is better than the WalMart amplified one.

In other words, would it be worth a try (using the Silver Sensor) to see if the reception would be better than the WalMart rabbit ears amplified one?

You could try the Silver Sensor (by itself AND with an external amplifier added on) from Palm City, and see what kind of reception you get. :)

Originally posted by bob733
Would hooking the Silver Sensor to a HD200 be better than hooking it directly up to a tv (just to check reception)?

For digital/HD broadcast reception, you can hook it up directly to the tv only if your tv has a built-in OTA tuner, or for regular analog VHF and some UHF reception, you could connect it directly to your tv I suppose. That's why I have it connected to my HD-200 SAT/OTA receiver because it decodes the SD and HD D*TV and OTA broadcasts. :)

Originally posted by bob733
Hmmmm OTA (Free) still sounds better than Cable ($7.95 mo for the HDTV converter). But here is a question.

I bought a Wallmart (dont laugh) Rabbit ears Amplified antenna and just stuck it on top of a regular ole tv just to see if I could pick up West Palm Beach stations OTA. ( I live in Palm City Fl - near Stuart, Fl). Bottom line, I could not get good reception from my home using the amplified antenna.

However, after seeing the pictures of the Silver Sensor, and reading about the reception, I am wondering if the technology of that antenna is better than the WalMart amplified one.

In other words, would it be worth a try (using the Silver Sensor) to see if the reception would be better than the WalMart rabbit ears amplified one?

Bob733 - I would say yes! I went to RatShack and tried their antennas. I tried two or three (you can take them back and get a refund). They best one was their top of the line amplified version (don't know the model but cost $49). But the Silver Sensor beat it. I think you can get the SS at CC. You can get one take it home an try it and return it if it doesn't work. Same with the RadioShack ones. If I were you, I'd try them all. That's the only way to know if they will work or not.

On the HD Cable, if you already have a digital box, they will swap out it for an HD box for free and you get the HD service for 2 months at the same cost of your digital service. After 2 months then the cost of the HD box goes up to $8. So for two months, it's not costing me anything.

bob733, unless price is a big issue, put up an outside antenna. South of you (hobe sound) I can sometimes pull in Orlando area stations and I'm surrounded by taller pine trees. You being another 15-20 miles north would probably do better than me with those stations. Orlando is broadcasting a lot of DTV/HDTV channels.

Even though the federal regulations allow an outside antenna, it is out of the question. I live in a snobby, old people (but we younger ones are moving in with our kids) community that half of them would croak if they saw "one of them wire antenna thingies".

So, I will stick to the Satilite dish, cable and possibly try the Silver Sensor indoor antenna. Looks like SS has an amplified one and I am looking for where to buy it now. CC does not carry them unfortunetly and having to return something to Mail Order does not seem to be convient (but then I have never had to return anything and dont really know how hard it would be)l

What about the Gemini ZHDTV1 HDTV-UHF Digital Indoor Antenna. It seems to be a cheaper version of the Zenith Silver Sensor. It gets great reviews on Amazon and ePionions. Anyone have any experience with this antenna?

Originally posted by Your User Name:
What about the Gemini ZHDTV1 HDTV-UHF Digital Indoor Antenna. It seems to be a cheaper version of the Zenith Silver Sensor. It gets great reviews on Amazon and ePionions. Anyone have any experience with this antenna?

The Gemini and the Zenith "HDTV Antenna" (although there is no such thing as an HDTV antenna since it's really just a UHF antenna looking for the broadcasts in that freq. range) are the EXACT SAME VHF antenna. I believe it's actually made by Gemini and under some licensing or marketing deal, Zenith boxes it under their name (or vice-versa), but I researched this for quite a while before choosing an OTA antenna...trust me, it's the same and they both work the same....very well I might add. :)

What I had suggested for bob733 was to add a Radio Shack (or like) amplifier between the antenna and the OTA receiver if he can't get good reception with just the Silver Sensor alone. That way, maybe he can amplify the signals to the Silver Sensor antenna and pull them in better if need be. I personally do not have to do this since I live so close to most of the antennas, but I've heard of other people doing this. Try it!

Also, I made have had a typo earlier...I think the Silver Sensor is a UHF only antenna, but it picks up WPEC-DT (13.1) very well; I guess because it's on the fringe of UHF and VHF. All the other DT channels broadcast on UHF and are re-mapped to their corresponding channels we all know (5.1, 12.1, 25.1, 29.1, etc.)...anyway, again it works for all of them (at my distance)...that's all I know. :)

Good info on the Gemini and Zenith being the same. Looking for local stores that supply either... Best Buy in WPB has the Silver Sensor.

CC didnt have it... will look now for the Gemini. Going to try it as $7.95 a month to get Local's HD is extreme (in my opinion) but I will pay it if the OTA route does not work.

Will try the SS by itself and then with a RatShack amp. Also, the info on Orlando stations seems interesting.

BTW, bsgoren... Lake Worth a great place... spent a lot of hours on that fishing pier. I am up here near Stuart but will get back down there before to long

Thanks for your (and others ) input

just found the Gemini zhdtv1 on Amazon with this comment:
"Note: When using the enclosed antenna, you will only receive UHF channels. To receive VHF channels (Channels numbered 1 thru 13), you must slso connect a VHF antenna to the TV. You can install a device referred to as a "antenna combiner" which will combine the two antenna output signals into one 75 ohms for a single connection. "

Does this not rule out the Abc's of the world (and consequently HDTV local broadcasts)? And what is a "antenna combiner"?

Originally posted by bob733
just found the Gemini zhdtv1 on Amazon with this comment:
"Note: When using the enclosed antenna, you will only receive UHF channels. To receive VHF channels (Channels numbered 1 thru 13), you must slso connect a VHF antenna to the TV. You can install a device referred to as a "antenna combiner" which will combine the two antenna output signals into one 75 ohms for a single connection. "

Does this not rule out the Abc's of the world (and consequently HDTV local broadcasts)? And what is a "antenna combiner"?

No, again, as I mentioned before, in our area, all the WPB DT channels are pulled in with this Zenith SS/Gemini antenna including WPEC-DT (12.1 which is 13.1 remapped to 12.1) and all the other DT stations including WPBF-DT (25.1). I wouldn't worry about. :) If you want, just post the question to Dave McRoy (WPEC-DT) to answer why this is...he'll explain it better than I can. :D

Probs continue with WPBF 16.1 ABC

Still having probs with audio out of synch and when they attempt that
stretch to fit thing with their non HD broadcast, sides are a few inches short and bottom of screen overruns.

Still noting occasional dropouts on WPEC 12.1 CBS as well.

bob733, I can completely understand the "snobby neighborhood" situation, I have the same. However, it is my house, and Section 207 of the telecommunications act overrides HOA rules very cleanly when it comes to this topic. If you want it, you can have it (with extremely rare exception). If the old people start killing over because you put one up, that still doesn't override 207.

I put one up. I got the letter from the HOA asking me to take it down "per the bylaws of the HOA". I replied with a note referencing 207. They replied with modest capitulation about small satt dishes being o.k., but were under impression that my big Blake UHF was a "Ham Radio" antenna "not protected by 207". I replied correcting their misunderstanding and did a little scolding for jumping to a conclusion instead of just asking me what I had. (and for what its worth, none of them killed over because I put one up).

In the course of this I also invited interested parties down to see the difference between Adelphia (which is cleverly embedded in the HOA bill) vs. D* vs. HD. And I helped them understand that local HD was 100% free, pitting that against the "high HOA bill" about which they regularly compain. Interesting thing about these control freaks: another thing you can absolutly depend on is the "nosyness" factor- if you invite them into your home, they will come. I think some came just to see how I decorated the inside of my house.

Demos speak for themselves. I flash the Adelphia version vs. the HD version and their "old" eyes practically fall out of their heads. Even D* SD does well against the crap that is Adelphia basic. It is particularly compelling to do the demo in reverse- in other words, let their eyes adjust to an HD broadcast, then switch to the same broadcast in Adelphia basic cable. Sunday football broadcasts seem to do it better than anything else.

Since then, a number of D* HD dishes have popped up in the neighborhood. I've also seen a number of big DTV boxes awaiting the trashman. Funny thing about these grumpy old geezers. They have the dough, and they have a lot more time than the working class (like me) to watch TV. HD is an even more sensible pursuit for them.

So yes, first reaction is "there goes the neighborhood" (though I have noticed some houses selling for higher prices than before the antenna went up), but then, the neighborhood evolves. 207 completely protects your rights. The FCC will call the HOA if necessary to help them see the light. In general though, if you call their bluff with 207, the resistance quickly ends.

This is totally your call of course, but I tried little antennas indoors. They worked o.k. and I did well with most local stations. But now that I get chunks of Miami and Orlando stations and I could never go back. I suspect you would do a little worse with Miami, but better with Orlando (and Orlando has a lot of DTV/HD stations). Good luck in whatever you decide.

In my old snobby community, we have a monthly maintenance charge in which the Adelphia Basic is covered. So, the cost for the HDTV portion (the stupid converter) is $7.95 a month.

I also have the 3lnb D* satallite dish which picks up a HBO HD, Showtime HD, Espn HD, Discovery HD (and a couple of other not ready for prime time HD channels).

So, as you said, it really points down to me deciding if I want to be the only house (out of some 500) with a big antennal up there on the roof (next to the current D* dish).

Unfortunetly, at this point, I would have to say "Not yet" because, 1) I just do not watch tons of TV to warrent adding the antenna and causing an uproar that I would win, and 2) if the $7.95 a month charge gets me ABC, NBC HD locals (with the other locals to come I am sure), that might suffice for me.

I would ask though, even if you saw some satallite dishes go up, did you see any OTA antennas going up in your "hood"?

No other antennas yet in my neighborhood. But I think the HOA has done a good job of snowing these new dish people into thinking that my antenna will not stay. Of course, the longer it stays in place the more that snow starts to clear.

I keep getting asked how many DTV/HD channels I get that are not available on D*, and that number wows 'em. The one other common denominator I notice about the HOA's warlords is they are fiercely competitive people. The don't like it when the "young whipper snapper" has something that they do not. More and more of them are learning that I have the best TV pictures in the neighborhood, that these pictures don't cost anything with the antenna, and that Adelphia won't ever carry all of them. The sports freak guys find it especially difficult to deal with less than HD when they get a crack at free local sport broadcasts in HD.

I was the first with the dish, but now there are quite a few. I was the first with the antenna, but I don't think it will be long before others pop up. I suspect they're just waiting to see if I will "win". What they probably don't fully realize is that 207 makes it such that there was never an actual chance of losing in the first place.

I actually can identify with where you are. I was trying to operate with a little internal rabbit ears type solution for a while. Outdoor successes of others turned me on to the big benefits of having redundencies of networks in other markets. When the local preempts a show you really wanted to watch, chances are good that the other NBC/ABC/FOX/CBS that you can get won't also be pre-empting that show. This seems to happen more often than I would have expected.

Also, in WPB- for some mysterious reason- we seem to have a number of stations that just can't quite get the DTV/HD broadcast bugs completely and consistently squashed. I guess it's because the WPB marketplace is among the poorest markets in the entire nation ;) (I mean, really, who in the WPB area could actually afford to spend the money for an HD set, box, and antenna?) Another issue seems to be the local broadcasters on some stations can't consistently "throw the switch" so that you can watch a program billed as HD in HD. It's a very nice benefit to switch to 4-1 in Miami or 6-1 in Orlando when 12-1 is having pixelation and audio drop outs. It's nice to be able to switch to 6-1 in Miami when 5-1 forgets to turn on the HD broadcast, or has the audio falling behind the video by 1 second or more. 9-1 in orlando is a nice option to have when 25-1 (ABC) is having audio problems. Etc.

Well, here goes nothing. Given that I could not get diddly squat with a WalMart rabbit ears amplified antenna, the Silver Sensor will defintely be put to the test.

I am going to hook it right into my Sony HD200 (I already have D* and Cable hooked in but it has another port for antenna)..... Sssooooooo here goes nothing.

bob733, good luck. One thing to consider is that much of the silver sensor crowd is closer to the majority of the towers than you or I. Several of the people you were interacting with live in the ideal (for HD) locations of Lake Worth & Delray. Outside or inside antennas, I'm envious of their location myself (at least relative to hot spots for DTV/HDTV).

That said, I think with a cheap Terk antenna I could get 5-1, 12-1 & 2, 25-1, 29-1 & 59-1. Some of these required rotating the unit, but the SS is apparently best in breed of these indoor antennas. I haven't really tried with the Terk since I installed the outside antenna. There were a few nights where that one managed to pull in 20-1 out of Ft. Myers (but apparently that was the tropospheric effect more than the antenna).

I think there are a couple of guys up your way using the SS, so I'm guessing you'll get some pretty good results. Let us know.

Will do, and if it doesnt work, my last gasp try with the SS is to go to RatShack and get an amplifier so I might need some advise as to what type etc to get to hook up to the SS.

Originally posted by bob733
Well, here goes nothing. Given that I could not get diddly squat with a WalMart rabbit ears amplified antenna, the Silver Sensor will defintely be put to the test.

I am going to hook it right into my Sony HD200 (I already have D* and Cable hooked in but it has another port for antenna)..... Sssooooooo here goes nothing.

Bob733 - The SS is sensitive to location. I moved mine around on top of my wall unit a lot before finding the right spot. I also found an old 10db RadioShack amp I had stored away. That helps some stations but hurts on others. The amp causes me to loose a couple of WPB stations but helped pulling in Ft. Lauderdale one. I think the amp cause the WPB stations signal to be over driven. But you being further away for the transmitter, the amp maybe just the thing for you. So if you have the time and $$ you may also try one from RadioShack.

Being sharp on computers but not as sharp on electronics (eventhough I am good at hooking up the home theater systems etc), I am not as sharp on amps etc (for example you said 10db... is that basically all I ask the guy for (if I wind up needing one))?

Originally posted by bob733
Being sharp on computers but not as sharp on electronics (eventhough I am good at hooking up the home theater systems etc), I am not as sharp on amps etc (for example you said 10db... is that basically all I ask the guy for (if I wind up needing one))?

Bob - Yes. Mine is an old one toss up in a box with cables, so I don't know how old it is. RS use to sell amps in 10db and 20db powers. I also remember they had a variable one too. I don't know that they carry anymore. Being so far away, I would think you need the most powerful one they stock. They will also try to sell you their powered indoor antenna ($49). It has a 10 or 15db amp builtin. You may want to take a look at that on in the store and possibly give it a try.

Bob - I did a quick check of RS website and they don't have much listed. I found a 10db in-line amp (RS 15-1170) and a high gain 30db antenna mount signal amp (RS 151109). I also did a quick Google search and came up with a 25db economy signal amp from a site call smarthouse.com. That one looks like the amp I have and is the most reasonable priced.

I thought the SS had a built-in AMP. Don't you have to plug it in? That Terk that I mentioned was like this. It had a variable amp dial right on the unit. Like the other guys mentioned, sometimes it helped and sometimes it didn't. With amps, overdriving is a problem. I put a +28db amp on the outside unit only to find it was too much for many of the stations. So, then I had to install an attenuator to cut down on the signal. In hobe sound, I run at an average amp of about +12-15db if the attenuator adjustments are point for point. You're a little further out than me, so I would guess you need to seek something at least this strong if not higher.

In my case, I got all of the locals with the outside antenna without an amp. I added it to try to get those more distant stations too. Amps are a mixed bag in HD/DTV. They can help you pull from a little further away, but they amplify bugs in the signal along with the good stuff. Sometimes, I find the best setting on the attenuator is to crank it all the way down. On the other hand, without the amp, those Orlando stations would not come in.

The SS does not have a built-in amp but I suppose one could be added in between the SS and the HD receiver. In bob733's case being so far away, it could work...don't know until he tries. As you mentioned, I (along with many others on this thread) live so close to the antenna farm in Lake Worth that I just use the SS sitting on top of my entertainment ctr without any external amp and get all the WPB DT stations in at the 'normal' to 'good' range, but I cannot pull in any Miami or Orlando DT stations for that matter. If the instability (audio sync problems, pixelization, dropouts, etc.) continue with some of the WPB DT broadcasts, I will add the amp to see if I can pull in the Miami DT channels and the WPB DT channels can kiss my...:p

No the SS is a non-amplified antenna. It's really remarkable that it works like it does. I had the same problem with my setup. I used the amp for a while to get a good clean signal from Ft. Lauderdale. But when I added the amp the WPB stations starting dropping out. My strength meter had WPB stations at a 10 but they weren't stable anymore. My guess is the amp cause the signal to be too strong. I found that I have a good stable signal with a strength of 8 on my STB. I've played and played with the position of the antenna till I found the right spot and now get good signals from 2-1,4-1 & 6-1 in Ft Lauderdale and still get 5-1, 17-1, 29-1, 35-1, 39-1 and 67-1. The two I have the biggest problems with is 12-1 and 16-1. I don't really care about CBS 12-1 because I get a great signal for CBS 4-1 in Ft Lauderdale. I don't watch ABC much but got it when I installed the HD cable from Adelphia. My amp was a straight 10db amp with not adjustments. What I really need is a variable amp. I could probably adjust it out so I got everything.

Originally posted by bsgoren
The SS does not have a built-in amp but I suppose one could be added in between the SS and the HD receiver. In bob733's case being so far away, it could work...don't know until he tries. As you mentioned, I (along with many others on this thread) live so close to the antenna farm in Lake Worth that I just use the SS sitting on top of my entertainment ctr without any external amp and get all the WPB DT stations in at the 'normal' to 'good' range, but I cannot pull in any Miami or Orlando DT stations for that matter. If the instability (audio sync problems, pixelization, dropouts, etc.) continue with some of the WPB DT broadcasts, I will add the amp to see if I can pull in the Miami DT channels and the WPB DT channels can kiss my...:p

BSGOREN - With a 10db amp and the SS pointing south, you might be able to get the FTL 3 stations I am getting (2-1, 4-1, 6-1). I was getting a 9 to 10 on my strenght meter with the amp. With the SS pointing south I could still get the WBP stations off the back side of the antenna. It would be worth the try IMHO. Both NBC 4-1 and CBS 6-1 are rock solid signals and I've never seen a problem with their audio.

Originally posted by Kenni_o
BSGOREN - With a 10db amp and the SS pointing south, you might be able to get the FTL 3 stations I am getting (2-1, 4-1, 6-1). I was getting a 9 to 10 on my strenght meter with the amp. With the SS pointing south I could still get the WBP stations off the back side of the antenna. It would be worth the try IMHO. Both NBC 4-1 and CBS 6-1 are rock solid signals and I've never seen a problem with their audio.

Might try. Thank you. :D It would be nice to have a couple of alternatives since all my complaints posted here and e-mails to the DT guys over the past 6 months haven't accomplished much, or at least a fix that lasted more than 1 day or two. :mad:

I agree. In my opinion- even if cable carries every local HD/DTV channel for a market- this "redundency" capability is still a strong reason for having the best antenna setup you can afford. I can't tell you how many times it has been nice to be able to switch to a second or even third option for a network to overcome a local pre-empt situation (but especially the local DTV signal problems).

I dont believ it! It works! Just hooked the SS up to the Sony HD200 and it works! It needs some work (and maby an amp) but here is what I received (listing only the Antenna (a) and Antenna/digital (ad) channels:

cbs 12 a snowy blurry
12.1 ad no signal (but info displaying CBS and channel nr clear)
12.2 ad same as 12.1

abc 25 a Picture ok
25 a Picture ok
25.1 ad pic ok but no sound

fox 29 a picture snowy
29.1 ad pic ok

tfx 34 a picture blurry
34.1 ad picture better (than d* or a)

pax a picture snowy
67.1 ad no picture (but info about call sign and channel clear)


some dropouts occurring on the locals but once again, all I have done is plug the SS in..... no moving it around, or no amplifier.

Any suggestions as to what I should try next?

Also, what are the antenna/digital channels for Orlando.... might as well try turning my antenna northwest and see what I get?

Appreciate all the help so far

Bob

Originally posted by bsgoren
Might try. Thank you. :D It would be nice to have a couple of alternatives since all my complaints posted here and e-mails to the DT guys over the past 6 months haven't accomplished much, or at least a fix that lasted more than 1 day or two. :mad:

I'm glad it works (somewhat) for you, bob733...told you. :D I just tried adding a RS variable 10db amplifier to my SS and I couldn't get anyhthing in; not the WPB DT channels I've been pulling in so well without the amp, nor the Miami DT channels. I played with the variable amp thing but still got nothing (even with it down all the way or up all the way). It was worth a try for redundancy purposes, but oh well, I'll just have to stick with just the WPB DT channels for now. So, back it goes to RS. Bob733, try moving the SS around or maybe adding an amp will work for you though being that you're much further away. We'll see if the WPB DT stations all get their act together. ;)

Bob - read my earlier post. You need to do lots of moving the antenna around. Start by using a signal strength meter to see how good your signals are. You can have a strong signal and still not no picture. Play around a lot with the position of the antenna. My SS picks up a good strong signal from the back side. Sounds like you have a start and an amp may be the final piece you need.

Yep,,, going to get the radio shack db10 amp as soon as I finish typing this post.... thanks again guys

Originally posted by bsgoren
I'm glad it works (somewhat) for you, bob733...told you. :D I just tried adding a RS variable 10db amplifier to my SS and I couldn't get anyhthing in; not the WPB DT channels I've been pulling in so well without the amp, nor the Miami DT channels. I played with the variable amp thing but still got nothing (even with it down all the way or up all the way). It was worth a try for redundancy purposes, but oh well, I'll just have to stick with just the WPB DT channels for now. So, back it goes to RS. Bob733, try moving the SS around or maybe adding an amp will work for you though being that you're much further away. We'll see if the WPB DT stations all get their act together. ;)

BSGOREN - Sorry it didn' work. We both had the same problems with the WPB stations and the amp comb. Guess the WPB signal is just too strong with the amp. But with the amp, I'm surprised you didn't get some sort of FTL signal, especially from 4-1 and 6-1. Their signal is really strong here in Delray. I have my SS pointing directly south from my location just off Military. Wish it would have worked out for you!

Originally posted by bob733
Yep,,, going to get the radio shack db10 amp as soon as I finish typing this post.... thanks again guys

Bob - you didn't indicate any thing for 55-1 the NBC station. If you haven't found the Titantv site you need to go there. It will give all the information and listing for the WPB digital stations you can receive. It will also indicate if the programs is in HD. I highly recommend you check out this site and use the digital tap on the listing page. It will also show you what antenna you need (I'm sure in your case it will say outside antenna is required). It will build personalized listing guide for you. Check it out, its a great information source, I use it everyday.

Here is the address: http://www.titantv.com/

bob733, I have to pull the list of Orlando stations for you. I know the remapped channels very well, but you'll need to scan the actual digital channels (and I don't know many of those top of mind). 41 is the only one I know for sure (because it doesn't remap at all, but it is channel 65's digital channel allocation). I think 6-1 remaps from 58, so you might try to scan for 41 & 58 until I can get you the more complete list.

Along with 5 (which is actually 55 for scanning purposes) that they've pointed out as missing from your list, you should almost certainly be getting 59-1 (no remap, scan for 59) which is a dedicated digital independent based in Stuart. I don't think they broadcast at full power, as I have to rotate the big outdoor to point right at them, but you are probably closer to their tower than I am. Most of their content is not HD, but they occasionally show scenes of the treasure coast in HD and it is spectacular. Probably by moving your antenna around, 59-1 will pop up.

Update: For Orlando stations, scan for the number shown (and it should remap to the number shown in parenthesis).

58 (6-1 & 2)
39 (9-1 & 2)
17 (18-1)
14 (27-1)
22 (35-1)
41 (41-1 & 2 but it is actually channel 65)
68 (30-1 & 2)

I can get all of these a fair amount of the time. Also, since you are bit closer you might try 48 (56-1) out of Melbourne and 11 (2-1). I never get these but you have 20+ more miles on me. Good luck.

'Ed' on WPTV-DT looked great tonight...it was in HD as advertised, the audio sync appeared to have been as close to perfect as you can get, and no more picture "freezes." What ever Dave and his crew did seemed to work (for now). If they keep it up, we'll have to applaud WPTV-DT for providing high quality, stable HD broadcasts to the WPB area. Based on their history, I'm still a bit skeptical though so we'll see if it keeps up the rest of this week...

I have spent quite a bit of time tinkering with my attic array here in Palm City and I would be very surprised if you can get reliable reception of the stations with transmitters at the WPalm antenna farm using any kind of antenna sitting in your living room. It just defies the laws of physics.

Of course, nothing is as good as outside antenna for reception. However in Palm City you should be able to get perfect reception of all the local channels with some sort of attic arrangement unless you have a metal roof. Attic antennas do have some advantages over outside antennas. You don't have worry about your neighbors complaints, corrosion, or hurricanes.

If you would like to see my setup, I'm in the phone book.

Joel

HobeSound,

This is a dumb question... but when you say scan, exactly what to you mean. I have a Sony Hd200 feeding a Hitachi 65. The Sony currently has D* (3lnb), HDTV Aldephia and (as of yesterday) a Silver Sensor as inputs.

Do I scan on the HD200, or the Hitachi (and if so, is it a setting I go to on one of the menus of the HD200 or the Hit)?

Thanks in advance

Bob

I don't know that box, so I'm sure others will chime in. Here's what I think: The scanning itself almost certainly should be done with the Sony box. That's where your HD tuner is, and the scanning you are to do is to tune DTV/HD signals. I'm guessing that you had to plug in a zip code when you initially set up the box with D*. That is what pulls the local channels into the D* on-screen guide. That doesn't mean that you will be able to actually tune in those channels, they just show up in the guide because they are your nearest local stations. For example, punch in a distant zip code (say in Iowa) and the nearest local channels for that zip will show up in your on-screen guide. Of course, no antenna is going to pull in some cities local channels in Iowa (unless you actually move there).

In most D* boxes there is a menu that will include an option named something like "auto scan" and usually something like "manual scan". Auto scan is used when you plug in an antenna (like the SS). It checks every channel searching for signals (much like auto-scanning for available channels with a VCR or TV). With my box, it scans for analog signals via antenna, then cable signals, and then DTV signals. However many it finds will show up in the on-screen guide.

The "Manual scan" (or similar) function allows you to specify a particular channel to scan. For example, I think you should be getting 59-1 since you are closer to that station than I am. With manual scan, you would enter 59 into a box on screen and your D* box should scan that channel and add 59-1 to your guide. If not, move the antenna around and try a manual scan for channel 59 again.

When I first put up the outdoor, I used autoscan with the antenna pointed in different directions to discover what all I could get from Miami, WPB, Ft. Myers, and Orlando. Each time I took note of what locked in. A rotation of the antenna and another auto-scan would lock in different stations (and kill some that I had previously locked)- that's why I took notes each time. The rotor on the antenna includes a little box inside that shows me the numerical direction the antenna is pointing. So, once I autoscanned all of the favorable directions, I rotated the antenna back to favorable coordinates and manually scanned in missing stations. This populates my on-screen guide with every channel I can lock.

Using a macro-programmable learn remote (MX-700) I set things up so that all favorite channels were listed in a window. The macros then rotate the antenna to the optimal direction and tune the D* box to the channel in one button click.

Two last notes: 1. that zip code approach to on-screen guide will tend to get you the actual programming for those channels. My box only lets me enter 2 zip codes, so I get programming listings for WPB & Miami. Unfortunately, all other stations (such as those Orlando ones) show up in the guide as "regular schedule" (unless I swap the Miami zip code with something closer to Orlando and basically reverse this effect-- Miami stations show up as "regular schedule" but Orlando stations have program info. It's not that big of a deal to me, but I do wish my box had the option to enter more than 2 zip codes, so that I could have program info for practically every signal the antenna can pull in.

2. I encourage you to do these autoscans and manual scans in the afternoon or evening as a number of stations don't have their DTV/HD signals powered 24/7. Most notably for WPB, Fox 29 is apparently only powering their DTV antenna from noon to midnight. This was particularly great during the baseball playoffs if they ran past midnight- the game would just cut out on you. If you scan while they are not powered, you won't lock their signal.

I hope this is helpful.

Originally posted by bsgoren
'Ed' on WPTV-DT looked great tonight...it was in HD as advertised, the audio sync appeared to have been as close to perfect as you can get, and no more picture "freezes." What ever Dave and his crew did seemed to work (for now). If they keep it up, we'll have to applaud WPTV-DT for providing high quality, stable HD broadcasts to the WPB area. Based on their history, I'm still a bit skeptical though so we'll see if it keeps up the rest of this week...

BSGOREN - I agree. Looked good last night and the audio appears to be fixed. I think we all owe Dave a WELL DONE!

Originally posted by bob733
Yep,,, going to get the radio shack db10 amp as soon as I finish typing this post.... thanks again guys

Bob - Did you get your amp? If so can you give us an update on your status?

I also saw ED last night, and it looked perfect. However, this morning 5-1 was back to disconnected audio on the Today show. If it has to be HD or SD synch, I prefer HD, but it seems like almost all of the other stations have found a way to synch audio on both HD & SD broadcasts.

I went to Radio Shack and actually purchase a 14db amp (they had the 10db there but it was 2 bucks more and 4db less....go figure that one out).

Came home and hooked it up... No noticible difference to tell the truth. Status now is 2 fold plan:

1. Plan 1. Going to take the SS up to the attic and try it there (Joel Graffman (who also lives in Palm City) told me that might help. I actually went to his house today and saw his set up. He has a Radio UHF Yagi antenna mounted in his roof and he picks up the WPB locals very well. So that leads to plan 2 if plan 1 (SS with amp in attic above interference).
2. Plan 2.. based on what I saw at Joels house, I went to RatShack and bought a 22 buck UHF Yagi antenna. I will first try it down stairs and if I get half way good reception, take it up in the attic. I would suspect my reception will be similiar to Joels as we live very close (couple of miles) from each other.

Originally posted by bob733
I went to Radio Shack and actually purchase a 14db amp (they had the 10db there but it was 2 bucks more and 4db less....go figure that one out).

Came home and hooked it up... No noticible difference to tell the truth. Status now is 2 fold plan:

1. Plan 1. Going to take the SS up to the attic and try it there (Joel Graffman (who also lives in Palm City) told me that might help. I actually went to his house today and saw his set up. He has a Radio UHF Yagi antenna mounted in his roof and he picks up the WPB locals very well. So that leads to plan 2 if plan 1 (SS with amp in attic above interference).
2. Plan 2.. based on what I saw at Joels house, I went to RatShack and bought a 22 buck UHF Yagi antenna. I will first try it down stairs and if I get half way good reception, take it up in the attic. I would suspect my reception will be similiar to Joels as we live very close (couple of miles) from each other.

Bob - I'll bet you do ok. The Yagi in the attic and try it with the amp and you'll get a strong signal.

Kenni_o
Great call on the Titian tv... went to web page and it is fantastic for program guide... thanks a lot

With respect to my latest update...
Bought the UHF Yagi... bumbled about putting it togeather and hooked it to the HD200 downstairs. Mixed results so I called Joel Graffman (who lives in Palm City) and he has generously offered to come over and help me see if this puppy will work or not

He lives 2 miles from me and has a fantastic setup using the Yagi in the attic for the locals HD.

Will let ya all know how I (aahhhhh we) did.

Originally posted by Kenni_o
BSGOREN - I agree. Looked good last night and the audio appears to be fixed. I think we all owe Dave a WELL DONE!

...not quite yet. :mad: 'ER' (tonight) audio sync is good but it's NOT in HD as ADVERTISED!!!! I knew it wouldn't last. I'm sorry, but this is just pathetic. :mad:

Originally posted by bob733
Kenni_o
Great call on the Titian tv... went to web page and it is fantastic for program guide... thanks a lot

Bob - Glad you liked it. TitianTV has a great website with all the information you need.

anyone here have Voom? If so, how is the HD reception with the voom antenna?

instslling monday the 22nd....

for a "local' Voom owner, post your message on the south florida thread. I know there is at least one guy there that has it. HofrstaJet is the AVS handle. He's in Coral Springs.

i'll search for that. thanks..

Ok, here are the results of my installation of a Radio Shack Yagi UHF OTA antenna:

First though, I want to personally thank Joel Graffman of Palm City (and a member here) for coming to my house and helping me.....

Second: My equipment is a Hitachi 65 Rptv
Sony HD200 STB
Yamaha 995 amp
Klipsch speakers
Pany DVD


1. Antenna is uhf Yagi from RS
2.. Put Yagi up in attic facing Southeast (I am in Stuart, Fl and WPB is SE of me)
3. Placed a RS 14db amp next to HD200 downstairs (but not near Attic Yagi antenna). Just tried using it (eventhough it is in the wrong place) to see if it helps at all (it did... a little bit)

Here are the results of the channels:

5.1 wptvdt nbc sig strength good, sound good, apperture 16.9 was 4.3 eventhough display said HD

12.1 No Signal... need vhf antenna

25.1 wpbfdt (close in Palm City), abc, sig strength good, sound good apperture 16.9 was 4.3 eventhough display said HD

34.1 wtvxdt, (close in Palm City) wtvx, sig strength good, sound good, apperture 16.9 was 4.3

67.1 wpxpdt, pax, sig strength good, sound good, 16.9 was 4.3

29,1 fox, sig strength bad, no sig to bad, picture came and went, unviewable


Suggestions from Joel... Put Channel master 14db amp up in attic (near Yagi).

Get Yagi vhf direct channel (1 channel antenna) for channel 12.1 (Cbs)

Possibly replace rg59 cable with Rg6 cable (eventhough it might not make much of a differecne as it is a short run from antennal to HD200)

There you have it.... so far, I am quite happy, I am almost ready to take my $8 a month CableVision HDTV converter back (eventhough I have only had it for a week). But then again, maby I will hook it up to my bedroom and be able to pull local HD's


Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Thanks for the help so far

Bob