bob733,

I have the the same Sony HD-200 sat/ota receiver; it will "read" all the DT broadcasts as "HD" whether they're being broadcast in SD digital or real 16x9 1080i or 720p HD. I'm a bit surprised that you can't get WPEC-DT 12.1 and WFLX-DT 29.1 since you get WPTV-DT just fine (all 3 stations' antennas are right next to each other). I guess my Zenith Silver Sensor UHF-only antenna pulls in 12.1 (13.1 remapped to 12.1) well because I'm so close to their antenna. Anyhow, I suppose you can try the VHF antenna for that DT station, but it's great to hear that you're able to receive most of the other WPB DT broadcasts.

BTW - wait til you really see the real HD broadcasts; you won't want to watch anything else (as long as the audio sync is ok and no other major annoyances are occuring). :D Sorry the SS didn't work for you, but at least you solved most of your DT reception issues with some help in your area. :)

More picture "freezes" on WPTV-DT's airing of 'Third Watch' this evening...is anyone else seeing the same thing? i.e. - HD picture ok, then all of a sudden, some slight pixelization with the picture 'freezing up' for anout 2 seconds (like as if I hit 'picture freeze' on my remote, which I know I didn't), and then returning to normal. I saw this about 6 or 7 times during the HD broadcast of Third Watch Friday night, and although the audio sync is just about perfect, this problem is also an annoyance (and I've never seen this problem occur on any other WPB DT station broadcasts).

Bob,

Get a set of cheapy RS Rabbit Ears and stick it on the reflector end of your RS yagi. Connect the leads of the rabbit ears to the yagi antenna terminals. This may sound kinda klutsy, but it works and is getting me a good signal from 12.1 in Margate using the same RS yagi.

Tony

bob, try that amp up nearer the antenna before you spend the money on a VHF antenna. I am UHF only too, and I get 12-1 just fine. Also, if it is not much trouble, I'd suggest replacing that RG-59 with RG-6. When it comes to digital television, every little bit of signal counts. If both of those fail you, then you might pay up for that VHF antenna.

Also, you are still not getting 59-1 and you should be. It does have a little local (Stuart) HD some of the time.

WPTV DT Updates
NBC did not feed ER to us or Miami in HD, but widescreen ONLY...so gotta yell at the boys in New York on that one bsgoren. We have been seeing the slight pixel problem, we will adjust the timing a few more ms...we saw it real bad when we fixed the audio issue, but it looks like it needs to be a little less...as for the Today show, we will look into that as well...could have been a switcher issue, should have tracked over okay.
Dave

Bob IRT 29.1, you should try varying the antenna direction +/ - 15 degrees before doing anything else.

Joel

For Hobesounddarryl...I put 59.1 whdtdt up on my favorites but so far (Sat am), it has no signal.

Also on an unrelated topic, your area is a great fishing area that I have been meaning on driving down to hit the beach. Maby I can buy you a cup of coffie and learn a little more about some of the things you have been doing to help and if you dont like coffie I'll bring you a mackeral or bluefish ha ha ).

Joel Graffman (whol lives in Palm City came to my house and helped me. He knows more about antenna theory and HD info in 1 finger than I know in my whole brain. He was most helpful and it would be interesting to learn your insite also.

Joel told me (in a post here last night) to go move the Yagi +/- 15 degrees to try to fine tune 29.1 in before I do anything else (amp next to antenna etc).

This should be interesting... last time (yesterday) when Joel was at my house helping me,) I went up in the attic. I stepped on the floor (of the attic) and crack, started to cave it in. Now, there is a nice crack in the garage cieling where stupid me (who did not know better) did not step on a rafter (or beam or what ever you call those wood beams). Talk about being stupid in these things. At least now I know.

Anyway, I am going up there again to adjust +/- degrees...hope I dont wind up in the hospital next time ha ha .

For bsgoren: I actuall tried the SS (albiet downstairs) and got what I am getting now (but not as well), and 12.1 was still no sig.

For tonyv: I actually still have a WalMart UHF/VHF amplified antenna that I tried first (to pick up the locals). Hmmmm I wonder if I set that one up in the attic, would it satisfy the 12.1 VHF problem (and the extra amp problem). What do you all think on that one?

Quick question for the TitanTv experts.

In Titans My Favorites, I was able to add stations (D*) like "356 MSNBC" to the "My Favorites" list but can not add stations like 5.1 (or 5-1) WPTVDT".

I receive "Please provide values for both channel # and callsign" error message. I thought that is what I was doing as I enterd the number and callsign (just like I did for MSNBC) but it did not like it. How do you add the HD digitals to the My Favorites list then?

Bob733, TitanTV accepts the actual channel (for example 55), not the remapped channel (5.1). Many digital channels are actually at a different "physical" channel than what shows up in your guide. For example, the actual signal for 25-1 is being broadcast on 16, 12-1 is actually on 13, etc.

Call signs are the letters starting with "W". For example 5-1s call sign is WPTV for the analog channel and WPTVDT for the Digital channel. I agree with Joel on rotating that antenna and scanning for missing channels. You will probably get better success after a few tests. Test with a few rotations beyond what makes sense. For example, if you are using a compass to determine the locations of the towers, test by pointing a little further to east and west than what makes sense to you. Antennas are only somewhat like satt dishes, in that while direction matters, you can sometimes do better by being a bit off of what should be optimal. I find that my strongest signal for one of the local stations is achieved by pointing my antenna due west.

Got it Hobesounddarryl.... I have them all in now... thanks

Doesn't it feel like we have to re-invent the wheel every so often?

With all the high tech devices, and cell phones, internet etc. Companies still do not know how to communicate with their sub divisions/companies.

Is anyone having a problem with Titan tv tonight... getting the following message (partial message) below:
SQL Server does not exist or access denied.
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Data.SqlClient.SqlException: SQL Server does not exist or access denied.

Source Error:

Originally posted by WPTV DT DOE
WPTV DT Updates
NBC did not feed ER to us or Miami in HD, but widescreen ONLY...so gotta yell at the boys in New York on that one bsgoren. We have been seeing the slight pixel problem, we will adjust the timing a few more ms...we saw it real bad when we fixed the audio issue, but it looks like it needs to be a little less...as for the Today show, we will look into that as well...could have been a switcher issue, should have tracked over okay.
Dave

Thank you Dave for keeping in touch with us regarding the issues at WPTV-DT. I'm not sure about the Today Show?? I mentioned ER and Third Watch having problems in my previous posts; I understand if NBC in NYC didn't pass the HD feed on, but I think it's reasonable for you and your boss to send them an e-mail about how dissatisified your viewers are when they don't flip the switch, considering they're advertising these shows in BIG BOLD letters "Presented in HD...."

As I mentioned, the latter show, Third Watch look good in HD and the audio was right on, but I still kept getting these "picture freezes" every so often which was accompanied by slight pixelization. The picture freezing up for about 2 seconds each time was the most distracting. I don't believe this was isolated to my receiver, as I'm sure everyone saw the same thing. Thank you for looking into this...it's much appreciated.

Is anyone else having problems with WPEC-DT? I lost my signal sometime after Sat nite. It has been working fine for several weeks, (100 on E-86 rcvr) so before I start "fixing" it, I thought maybe I should check here.
Thanks!

Looked good to me Monday around 6:00 PM.

We're on the air and I'm getting a signal at home.

Watched the game last night on WPBF-DT... looked great (although the fins lost a tough one :( ) and I think the audio sync was better (not quite perfect but better than before). Jumped to CSI Miami on WPEC-DT....looked perfect with no pixelization! Noticed Miss Match was NOT presented in HD although it was supposed to be...I guess WE have to 'yell at the boys in New York' -- NO, how about WPTV-DT yell at the boys in New York (for screwing up your broadcast for your HDTV viewers)? Leno looked perfect in HD (good job WPTV-DT for great PQ and audio sync), so why can't NBC pass on the HD signal for all their other shows they so proudly display their "Presented in HD" logo?

Thanks Joel and David for the replies. I found the problem with my setup and all is well again!

Bob - how about a update on your reception now? Did you get the antenna tweaked so you could get all the stations?

Following is a recap but it needs explanation:
1. My Sony HD200 Signal strength shows "Bad", "Normal", "Good".


2. I put the right most letter that the HD 200 signal got to in my recap.
For Example, If the signal got to the letter "r" in the "normal range
I put "Nor" in the "HD Sig qual" line. If it got to the second "o" in
the "Good" range, I put "goo", and so on. I am editing this post and placing percentages in addition to the letters. On a scale of 0 to 100 (100 the best), I placed the percentages along with the Letters.
3. The last(and best) test used the attic Yagis pointed more South (than SE)
as I live in Palm City, Fl. Additionally I had mounted a 13db Channel
Master amp near the Yagis. Finally, I had to use RG59 cable from
the amp to the HD200. I am running RG6 to the HD200 Antenna Input
on Thurs.

Net # Callsign Date Date Date Date
Dec 16
Cloudy

NBC 5.1 WPTVDT
....HD Sig qual.... Normal G..(75 %)
CBS 12.1 WPECDT
....HD Sig qual.... No Sig
ABC 25.1 WPBFDT
....HD Sig qual.... Goo (85%)
FOX 29.1
....HD Sig qual.... No Sig/Freez
WTVX 34.1 WTVXDT
....HD Sig qual.... Goo (85%)
WHDT 59.1 WHDTDT
....HD Sig qual.... No Sig
PAX 67.1
....HD Sig qual.... Goo(85%)

As you can see, Channels NBC 5.1 (g), ABC 25.1 (goo), WTVX 34.1 (goo) and and PAX 67.1 (goo) are all looking pretty good.

But,
CBS 12.1 needs an UHF antenna
FOX 29.1 is No Sig to Freezing
WHDT 59.1 is No Sig (Stuart and may not be broadcasting).

I think, CBS 12.1 can be fixed with a single channel VHF antenna.
Fox 29.1 worries me and I am not sure what to do here.

So there is the up-to-date update to be updated any date, it updates.

Thanks for the help so far.

Bob Wagner

Originally posted by bob733
Following is a recap but it needs explanation:
1. My Sony HD200 Signal strength shows "Bad", "Normal", "Good".
2. I put the right most letter that the HD 200 signal got to in my recap.
For Example, If the signal got to the letter "r" in the "normal range
I put "Nor" in the "HD Sig qual" line. If it got to the second "o" in
the "Good" range, I put "goo", and so on.
3. The last(and best) test used the attic Yagis pointed more South (than SE)
as I live in Palm City, Fl. Additionally I had mounted a 13db Channel
Master amp near the Yagis. Finally, I had to use RG59 cable from
the amp to the HD200. I am running RG6 to the HD200 Antenna Input
on Thurs.

Net # Callsign Date Date Date Date
Dec 16
Cloudy

NBC 5.1 WPTVDT
....HD Sig qual.... Normal G
CBS 12.1 WPECDT
....HD Sig qual.... No Sig
ABC 25.1 WPBFDT
....HD Sig qual.... Goo
FOX 29.1
....HD Sig qual.... No Sig/Freez
WTVX 34.1 WTVXDT
....HD Sig qual.... Goo
WHDT 59.1 WHDTDT
....HD Sig qual.... No Sig
PAX 67.1
....HD Sig qual.... Goo

As you can see, Channels NBC 5.1 (g), ABC 25.1 (goo), WTVX 34.1 (goo) and and PAX 67.1 (goo) are all looking pretty good.

But,
CBS 12.1 needs an UHF antenna
FOX 29.1 is No Sig to Freezing
WHDT 59.1 is No Sig (Stuart and may not be broadcasting).

I think, CBS 12.1 can be fixed with a single channel VHF antenna.
Fox 29.1 worries me and I am not sure what to do here.

So there is the up-to-date update to be updated any date, it updates.

Thanks for the help so far.

Bob Wagner

Bob,

Not everyone has a HD200, I do and understand your reading. Maybe you could translate that into a percentage. From 0 to 100 of the reading. This might be understood better.

Ken, I put the numerical percentages in the original post and thanks for the suggestion

Originally posted by bob733
Ken, I put the numerical percentages in the original post and thanks for the suggestion

Sorry Bob,

Did't see that one.

Not sure anybody has commented on this, but to my surprise discovered that HD cable is now LIVE in ft. lauderdale (and probably elsewhere in the So. Fla. area), IF you have QAM... just got the 70 XBR, and almost funny but now can receive via DirecTV, over-air from PB (espeically 5.1 and 29.1 both perfect off Las Olas) and Miami of course, as well as over-air from the set, and .. the surprising part... on Comcast cable.. but just NBC and ABC so far (and of course no box required)...

just thought I'd mention this discovery; apologies if already noted...

cheers!

gene

Bob,

If you decide to get a single channel antenna to receive us keep in mind that our DTV service is actually on channel 13.

Right..... just looking for a place to get one.... Joel Graffman has one in his attic that works so he can probably point me the way.

Bob733, I've purchased some stuff from Stark Electronic. I did a quick check and they have single channel VHF antennas. For example, here's just one address...
http://www.starkelectronic.com/btb1-1.htm
I'm sure Joel will have a good recommendation since he already has something that works. But if you go to stark, look around, they have many.

Bob - I looked back in your post on 12/10 when you were trying the SS antenna. With the SS, without an amp, you had a picture on 29.1. If you can remember how you had the SS pointed when you got your signal on 29.1, that might help you with your attic antenna setup. Maybe reconnect the SS indoors and move it around to see where you get the best signal and how it's pointed, and then see how that compares to how your have your attic antenna. That might give you some pointers on the attic antenna

If Fox is really something you want to get, maybe use the SS indoors with a RadioShack coax switcher so you could use both antennas. However, that still doesn't fix your problem with 12.1. Channel 12.1 is one of my problem stations too. On a clear day, I can get a good signal but with any clouds my picture starts to freeze up. Good luck!!!

Bob here is a copy of your post on 12/10:

cbs 12 a snowy blurry
12.1 ad no signal (but info displaying CBS and channel nr clear)
12.2 ad same as 12.1

abc 25 a Picture ok
25 a Picture ok
25.1 ad pic ok but no sound

fox 29 a picture snowy
29.1 ad pic ok

tfx 34 a picture blurry
34.1 ad picture better (than d* or a)

pax a picture snowy
67.1 ad no picture (but info about call sign and channel clear)

We had a lot of pixelation last night on 25.1 during Line of Fire. Did anyone else have the same problem or is it our antenna? All of the other stations were great. We are in West Boca.

Originally posted by LisaM
We had a lot of pixelation last night on 25.1 during Line of Fire. Did anyone else have the same problem or is it our antenna? All of the other stations were great. We are in West Boca.

Lisa - I spent most of the evening on NBC - 5.1. I did check it when they had the interview of the President and noticed the audio was out of sync again. But had no problems with the picture during the short period I was on the station. Sorry, I couldn't help more!

Well, after Joel Graffman hitting me over the head (for the 15th time) about that %^$#(*&^% Rg59 cable I currently have from the Antenna to HD200, I rehooked up a temp RG6 cable.

He has been telling me (and telling me, and telling me), I have to rule out the RG59 as being a problem (not a clean wire, no splitters, etc) and the only way to do that is to run a clean RG6 and retry it. He is tough (and persistant) but I am glad because I just got done unhooking the Rg59.

I now have rg6 from the Yagis to the Channel Master amp, and RG6 from the channel Master amp to the HD200.

Although 29.1 is not up yet, Joel told me to look at the Analog 29 and if I can get a half way decent picture, I should get the 29.1 great. And, with the RG6, the analog is pretty good (albies little snowy but definetly viewable).

So, progress is definetly being made. Current reception is:

5.1 75 - 80 percent
12.1 No Sig Need vhf
25.1 85 percent
29.1 Wait until this afternoon but analog viewable
34.1 90 percent
59.1 No Sig... probably off air
67.1 No Sig.. probably off air but analog so so (not as good as 29 analog) Note.. 67.1 came in pretty good when it was transmitting.

67-1 & 29-1 both don't fire up until later in the day. I'm pretty sure 29-1 is noon to midnight. 59-1 is a 24/7 station. I can get it anytime of day. I still cannot figure out why you're not getting that station (not that it's that big of a deal as it only has a little HD).

This station is classified as lo-power. FCC records indicate either 130 or 400 WATTS. Should be good for about 10-15 miles. Even Adelphia has problems picking them up.

HobeSoundDarryl,

Just tried to PM you (and could not). As I am now installing a Yagis antenna, Channel Master 13bd amp and RG6 cable in my attic, (as you have been reading and responding), I would be interested in your current setup (Antenna type, cable, any amps, current sig strength etc).

I think I am close but not ready to close down the R & D effort yet. As my attic space is not totally conducive to high mounting, I have to be more inovative (better gains antennas, amps etc).

Thanks in advance

Bob Wagner

bob733, my setup is as follows:

-Blake JBX-21 (UHF) Antenna mounted outside on
-Channel Master 9521A rotor. A short run of
-Quad Shield RG-6 runs into a
-Winegard AP-8275 PreAmp.

Inside, I have a Zenith DTV-1080 D* HDTV box. This is now about 2 generations old relative to Zenith box releases, but I think it is fair to say it was considered top quality in 2002. Even though it is a UHF only antenna, I do get a "good" reading for channel 12-1.

I think the big difference between our setups is the inside/outside thing. There are arguments in threads on this site that an attic mount vs. an outside mount can cost you up to 50% of the signal. I don't know how much truth is in that.

Relative to amps, etc., in general I have found that preamps are a mixed bag. I genuinely believe that it helps me with those very distant stations (like Orlando), but I also think it causes some problems (because preamps also amplify the noise). There have been times where I've been close to disconnecting it and going back to just a no-amped antenna (in pursuit of extra Miami stations even if it means giving up Orlando stations). However, I'm hanging in there until I upgrade the box to either Voom or the new Tivo HD D* boxes coming soon. I'd like to see what a newer multipath chipset could do with the amped signal.

An important note: those signal readouts that you get on screen are generally more about signal quality, NOT signal strength. I learned this because I noticed no change in the "strength" readout when I inserted the amp. In some cases, the reading actually went down a bit (which educated me on the negative effects of amps).

Whats up with 29-1? No widescreen this pm for the football game. I never watch Fox ota (just on D* ST) so maybe they aren't up and running yet. Could someone clue me in? Thanks

Originally posted by greenknight
Whats up with 29-1? No widescreen this pm for the football game. I never watch Fox ota (just on D* ST) so maybe they aren't up and running yet. Could someone clue me in? Thanks Not every FOX game is done in wide-screen. They only have so many remote units equipped with the newer wide-screen capable equipment. Since today's FOX game is really not that important to the playoff picture - Atlanta being out and TB being all but - they probably decided to allocate the equipment they do have to the more playoff critical games they are covering tomorrow.

Latest good news from Palm City, Florida

Reception on all (UFH) locals is pegged in the 90+ percent range. Solid transmissions, no Pixelization or Freezing noticed in 2 days. Estimated distance from Palm City to West Palm Beach Antenna Farm is in excess of 38 miles.

Antenna is a Radio Shack Yagis mounted in my Palm City attic (one story home) (next to Stuart, Fl Florida State Turnpike entrance). Angle (is this called asmuth (spelling wrong) is 190 degrees. Antenna is mounted in the attic approximately just above the lower roof line in this one story house. In other words, I have a cathredal ceiling, but I do not have the Yagis mounted at this additional height.

From the antenna, I have steel braided RG6 cable running to a Channel Master 13db amp and the same steel braided RG6 cable from the amp to a Sony HD200 STB.

Only channel left is CBS (12.1) and that will be resolved (from Stark Electronics) with a single channel (13) VHF antenna that will be hooked up via a coupler to the rest of the system. Eventhough it is not installed yet, I do not see any problem given the great reception with the UFH channels and the Yagis antenna.

Now, why have I been successful?

3 Reasons

My friend the Adelphia Cable guy.
He came to my house and gave me (and ran) the Steel braided cable, and placed the antenna in a better area. (think about it.... a cable guy, helping me with OTA antenna... good friend eh)?

More importantly, the second reason.... AVS forum member Joel Graffman:

This guy is an ex Navy F14 fighter pilot. Hard as nails and constantly cussing me out because I was not performing proper Problem resolution approach (even though I know better with more the 25 years of Information technology behind me).

Anyway, Flyboy kept kicking me to approach the problem in the right way, and finally, (when the correct RG6 cable was in, the amp was in, and the antenna was placed in a position it might work, he came over (for the 3rd time), and climbed up in MY attic (with his compass) and secured it in the position it is now (with the 90%+ reception).

This guy is a maven about antenna theory (with his degree, and work history and history of having to learn the subject on the job training) and I would readily refer any antenna quetions to him.

The 3rd reason (is on addon editied reason) that I stupidly did not include in this original post..... it is the others that have provided me help and advise and to them (bsborgen, kenni_o, hobesounddarryl, David Mcroy and others etc ). Thanks to you guyss also

One of the most important things about this post is this:
The question of good reception from anyone in this area is clearly (in my opinion) resolved (given you do not live under a tower, or next to a forest, or mountain)... In the Stuart, area, you can, with an attic antenna, get great reception from the local West Palm Beach stations....... Period, end of story.


Bob Wagner, 12/20/2003

Thans once again Joel

I am installing an antenna at my parent's house in Wellington (RCA set-top Amplified Indoor Antenna) and I'm getting NBC and FOX. Does anyone know if I should be able to get ABC and CBS too? If so, any suggestions on how to do it? I am plugging the antenna into a Samsung D* SIR-TS160 STB. I used the STB's auto channle scan to find NBC and FOX.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Your User Name:
I am installing an antenna at my parent's house in Wellington (RCA set-top Amplified Indoor Antenna) and I'm getting NBC and FOX. Does anyone know if I should be able to get ABC and CBS too? If so, any suggestions on how to do it? I am plugging the antenna into a Samsung D* SIR-TS160 STB. I used the STB's auto channle scan to find NBC and FOX.

Thanks!

Yes, as I mentioned to you some time ago, you may want to try the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna; I use it and live in West Lake Worth...about the same distance away from the antenna farm (on 441 and Lantana Rd.) as your parents living in Wellington. I receive ALL WPB DT channels with strong signals, including WPEC-DT and WPBF-DT (which broadcasts from north of WPB). If it doesn't work from your parents' house with the Samsung receiver, then something else is a miss; like the OTA digital/HD receiver. I have the Sony HD-200 which is a D*tv satellite & OTA digital/HD receiver, and it works very well. Good luck. :)

We watched Cold Case and CSI in HD last night on WPEC-DT; both shows were PERFECT...great job, Dave and gang at WPEC-DT...looking good. :)

One the other hand, WPTV-DT still had major video freezes (picture frozen for about 1-2 seconds) with pixelization on WPTV-DT's broadcast of ER last night. The audio was perfect, but the video freezes are very annoying (and none of the other WPB DT stations have this problem). I hope they can fix this; after all, we're closing in on 2004 which will be a very BIG year for HD. "May the network with the least HD broadcast problems win!" So far, I think CBS (and WPEC-DT in WPB) is far in the lead. BTW - I am in no way shape or form associated with CBS or any tv network...just a WPB viewer like everyone else here and I call 'em like I see 'em :D

Thanks. I told my mother about the Silver Sensor, but CC convinced her to try the RCA (as they didn't have the Silver Sensor at CC). I'll see if we can get a Silver Sensor. Do you know anyplace in the area that carries them?

Originally posted by Your User Name:
Thanks. I told my mother about the Silver Sensor, but CC convinced her to try the RCA (as they didn't have the Silver Sensor at CC). I'll see if we can get a Silver Sensor. Do you know anyplace in the area that carries them?

Try another CC or get it online somewhere. I bought my SS from CC in Boynton Beach for $40. BTW - it's also sold in some stores under the Gemini brand name as well

I've seen a few Silver Sensors at Sears in the Gardens Mall.
You may check your local Sears if CC doesn't have them.

I just returned my SS to Sears.... they have em.....It was good but I went with something different due to my circumstances.

Bob

I had to unplug my amp today (for my Yagi attic antenna). After I plugged it back in, I went through my digital locals.... Everyone (that was broadcasting) was fine EXCEPT ABC (25.1).

On this channel, the people looked pasty white (no good skin color). Yet, switching to the straight antenna analog or D*l signal for ABC, the color was fine....it is only this one digital channel that is doing it.

Everything is also very bright.... Is this being overdriven by the amp. I had not noticed this before as all channels were just fine (using the antenna for the HD digital local channels).

Just for kicks, I unplugged the amp and tried 25.1 again. Same thing.....looks worse than STD now. Really strange because I have been getting great reception on this channel up to today (at least the others are ok).

Is it possible there is something wrong with their transmitter (the sound on 25.1 doesn't sound right either).

Well I've returned the RCA antenna to CC and found the Silver Sensor at Sears. I will be picking it up tomorrow. Are there any tricks I should know about getting reception? With the RCA, I just plugged it in and used the Samsung STB's auto-search for Digital channels. Is that all I need to do? Is there a way to manually tune in the channels and then fine tune the antenna?

Originally posted by Your User Name:
Well I've returned the RCA antenna to CC and found the Silver Sensor at Sears. I will be picking it up tomorrow. Are there any tricks I should know about getting reception? With the RCA, I just plugged it in and used the Samsung STB's auto-search for Digital channels. Is that all I need to do? Is there a way to manually tune in the channels and then fine tune the antenna?

Just do the same thing, but remember, the SS is a highly directional antenna so you may have to rotate it around to find just the "right spot" so you get ALL the WPB DT channels in with a good signal. Typically, I do not have to touch the SS at all; it currently sits on top of our entertainment ctr pointing N-NW (don't ask me why that direction since most of the WPB DT broadcast towers are just W of me, but it works, so I just leave it alone!) Enjoy. :)

Can anyone tell me what general direction I should start with? My folks are in the Palm Beach Polo Club grounds in Wellington. Where are the towers relative to that location. I know there is a chance that that might not be the best direction (as is apparently the case for bsgoren), but it may provide at least a starting point.

Again, thanks all for the help. If this doesn't get done during my visit it likely won't get done at all.

I would try ESE to SSE. The towers for WPEC, WPTV and WFLX are on the corner of 441 and Lantanna. WPTV and WPBF broadcast from the northern counties.



NOTE: Sorry for the typo.

I hardly know the area well, but isn't the corner of 441 and Lantanna SSE of the Palm Beach Polo Club in Wellington? Are you suggesting ENE to NNE because WPTV and WPBF are further away?

Originally posted by Your User Name:
I hardly know the area well, but isn't the corner of 441 and Lantanna SSE of the Palm Beach Polo Club in Wellington? Are you suggesting ENE to NNE because WPTV and WPBF are further away?

Ansek had a typo; WPTV-DT broadcasts from the antenna farm just S. of Lantana Rd. off 441...just SE of Wellington. WPBF-DT does, however, broadcast from north of WPB. But, anyhow, try not to overcomplicate things...just hook it up, let your parents' Samsung OTA digital/HD receiver scan for channels and rotate the SS antenna accordingly if necessary. That's it...they should be able to get 5.1, 12.1, 12.2, 25.1, 29.1 and 34.1 with good signals. Maybe some other smaller independent stations as well.

Originally posted by Your User Name:
Well I've returned the RCA antenna to CC and found the Silver Sensor at Sears. I will be picking it up tomorrow. Are there any tricks I should know about getting reception? With the RCA, I just plugged it in and used the Samsung STB's auto-search for Digital channels. Is that all I need to do? Is there a way to manually tune in the channels and then fine tune the antenna?
To manually add channels with the SIR-TS160 you need to set the box to "No Dish" mode. It is in the setup menu. This will make the receiver think that it is a terrestrial receiver only and that a DirecTV dish is not available. When you are in "No Dish" mode you can punch in any channel number directly, say 13-1 (channel 12-1 after it gets remapped), and the receiver will try to lock on to the signal on that channel.

You can also use the auto-scan feature while in "No Dish" mode, but auto-scan has problems whether in "Dish" mode or "No Dish" mode (described below). Once you get all the channels locked in, you can then change the receiver back to the type you dish you have (single, double, or triple LNB) although I would expect it would be a triple LNB model since it is a HD receiver. When you switch it back to having a dish it will keep all the OTA digital channels you found while in "No Dish" mode.

The problem with auto-scan on this receiver is that it seems to wipe clean the list of channels before scanning. For example, if you have already locked in channel 25-1 and then point the antenna in a different direction to see if you can get some other channels and lose 25-1 in the process the auto-scan will end up removing 25-1 from the channel list because it could not find it.

So to do your fine tuning of the antenna put the SIR-TS160 receiver in "No Dish" mode.

OK, I got the Silver Sensor installed. I started by facing it NNE and using the Samsung's auto-search. It found 12.1 (CBS), 12.2 (Weather), 29.1 (FOX) and some religous progamming. I did as was suggested and set the Samsung to "No Dish" and tried to find 5.1, 25.1 and 34.1 manually with no luck. I have strong signals for CBS (77%) and Fox (93%) but can't get anything but snow on the other channels, no matter what directionI point the Silver Sensor. We are no more than 5 miles as th crow flies from the corner of 441 and Lantanna, so I was expecting to get all the channels. Any ideas?

Thanks (yet again) in advance!

Originally posted by Your User Name:
OK, I got the Silver Sensor installed. I started by facing it NNE and using the Samsung's auto-search. It found 12.1 (CBS), 12.2 (Weather), 29.1 (FOX) and some religous progamming. I did as was suggested and set the Samsung to "No Dish" and tried to find 5.1, 25.1 and 34.1 manually with no luck. I have strong signals for CBS (77%) and Fox (93%) but can't get anything but snow on the other channels, no matter what directionI point the Silver Sensor. We are no more than 5 miles as th crow flies from the corner of 441 and Lantanna, so I was expecting to get all the channels. Any ideas?

Thanks (yet again) in advance!


OK, at this point you need to start experimenting with the pitch of the antenna and where in the room the antenna is located. You want the antenna to be as high as possible. When doing the manual scan make sure you use the real channel numbers and not the virtual channel number.

Virtual Real
12.1 13
5.1 55
25.1 16
29.1 28
34.1 50

Sorry for the previous typo.

Originally posted by Your User Name:
OK, I got the Silver Sensor installed. I started by facing it NNE and using the Samsung's auto-search. It found 12.1 (CBS), 12.2 (Weather), 29.1 (FOX) and some religous progamming. I did as was suggested and set the Samsung to "No Dish" and tried to find 5.1, 25.1 and 34.1 manually with no luck. I have strong signals for CBS (77%) and Fox (93%) but can't get anything but snow on the other channels, no matter what directionI point the Silver Sensor. We are no more than 5 miles as th crow flies from the corner of 441 and Lantanna, so I was expecting to get all the channels. Any ideas?

Thanks (yet again) in advance!

I live near Wellington and I'm using a Mitsubishi HD5 receiver (E-86 clone). First try 55-1 for channel 5 (NBC). Unfortunately I don't think that you will get all channels with one antenna. Being so close to the transmitter of channel 5 overmodulates most receivers. They have had a problem with their transmitter since day one and i don't think it's been corrected. For now just write them off. Also from our location you probably will not get 25-1 and 34-1 with an indoor antenna. I had to go to an outdoor antenna in our attic to get those stations as they are too far North of us. So I ended up with a remote-controlled A/B switch for two different antennas pointed in two different directions.

The "real" station vs. the virtual helped to tune it in. I was able to get evereything but ABC (25.1 or real station 16). I got NBC on 5.1, CBS on 12.1, Fox on 29.1, and the WB on 34.1. I'm guessing ABC won't happen with an indoor reciever as ElectricPickle notes. My parents seem happy with the situation, so so am I. Thanks again for all the help!

Originally posted by Your User Name:
The "real" station vs. the virtual helped to tune it in. I was able to get evereything but ABC (25.1 or real station 16). I got NBC on 5.1, CBS on 12.1, Fox on 29.1, and the WB on 34.1. I'm guessing ABC won't happen with an indoor reciever as ElectricPickle notes. My parents seem happy with the situation, so so am I. Thanks again for all the help!

Not true, unless it really does have something to do with the Samsung receiver. I have the Sony HD-200 sat/OTA receiver and just the Zenith SS indoors (with no external amp), sitting on top of my entertainment ctr (about 9 feet high off the first floor) and get ALL WPB DT channels in great, including WPBF-DT with a "normal" to "good" signal according to my receiver. Most other channels come in a bit stronger, but I typically do not have any problems with WPBF-DT (other than their own audio sync issues and such). I live about 3 mi away from the antenna farm in W. Lake Worth, and many mi. away from WPBF-DT's broadcast tower.

Hmm... well that was the only channel I couldn't get ANY signal for. The rest came in and would fade out until fine tuned. I have no idea what I could do to tune in ABC at this point. bsgoren, do you have any suggestions?

Originally posted by Your User Name:
Hmm... well that was the only channel I couldn't get ANY signal for. The rest came in and would fade out until fine tuned. I have no idea what I could do to tune in ABC at this point. bsgoren, do you have any suggestions?

Possibly get a longer coax. cable and move the SS antenna around in different locations as high up as possible or wrap the tip with aluminum foil like they used to do with the rabbit ears in the old days. :rolleyes: Kidding aside, you could also try adding a good old fashioned RS bowtie antenna with a splitter and more coax. cable...don't laugh, some peple on this thread have sworn that they could get in OTA digital/HD broadcasts quite well with these things. ;) I haven't tried it personally, but it could work.

It does seem very strange that you can't pick up WPBF-DT from Wellington, which is even a few miles north of my location and I get it in perfectly with just the SS. I checked their broadcast tonight, and it was in the "good" range on my receiver (which would be equivalent to 85%-90% on other receivers); matter of fact, all of the WPB DT broadcasts (5.1, 12.1, 25.1, 29.1, and 34.1) were at that signal level here this evening. I wouldn't suggest an external amp, b/c I've already tried that (along with some others in this thread) and it just seems to make it much worse (personally, I LOST all the DT signals with a 20db variable amp attached). Maybe someone else has another suggestion. :confused:

Not that the game has any meaning for the 'Fins, but it would have been nice to watch the Dolphins/Jets game today in HD on WPEC-DT as CBS so proudly advertised at 1:00PM at the start of the game today...very disappointing. :( Who's error was it this time, Dave?

The CBS schedule says today's CBS HD Game is Denver @ Green Bay.


http://www.sportsline.com/u/cbs/schedule/nfl.htm

Originally posted by ANSEK
The CBS schedule says today's CBS HD Game is Denver @ Green Bay.


http://www.sportsline.com/u/cbs/schedule/nfl.htm

That maybe true, but why would the CBS announcer specifically say to enjoy "the game" in high definition right before the 'Fins/Jets game? I saw it with my own eyes and then was disappointed the game wasn't in HD. All of this HD stuff the networks and local DT stations screw up so much is so frustrating!!! It's like..."thank you, yes, I would love to enjoy your broadcast in HD...if you'll let me!!" :mad:

Does anyone else get the dropouts of signal that seem to be
occurring from time to time on WFOR, CBS? It seems that they began
over a month or so ago. I have written WFOR directly and they do not,
according to their monitoring show any signal drops? When they do
occur, they are momentary, 2 sec or less, then full signal resumption.
Digital Channel, 12.1, occurs both during SD and HD broadcasts.


Thanks

How come WFLX hasn't aired the last couple of widescreen movie broadcasts from the network? "Anastasia" and "Die Hard" both were aired (in other parts of the country) in the OAR.

Die Hard was in widescreen on WFLX...at least the first 20 minutes or so were. I thought it looked pretty good, probably better then the dvd. Only watched the beginning, because Sunday nights wouldn't be the same with the Sopranos...

Originally posted by Rudy1
How come WFLX hasn't aired the last couple of widescreen movie broadcasts from the network? "Anastasia" and "Die Hard" both were aired (in other parts of the country) in the OAR.

I also watched parts of Die Hard and it was in WS at least in the 45 minutes. I agree with Online2much in that the PQ looked really good.

OK, I'm sure this has been asked before here, but, to keep from reading 128 pages of posts I'm gonna ask again.:p
I live in the acreage, western Palm Beach County for the uninitiated. Can I use a SS antenna inside the house (I have a one-story) with a good HD sat box? I have few trees and no obstructions in the area.

I'm dying to get into the HD world, I was gonna get a E* PVR-921 box, but they are too new for my taste as of now.

Look at the top of the page for "Search this Thread"

Originally posted by robocop974
OK, I'm sure this has been asked before here, but, to keep from reading 128 pages of posts I'm gonna ask again.:p
I live in the acreage, western Palm Beach County for the uninitiated. Can I use a SS antenna inside the house (I have a one-story) with a good HD sat box? I have few trees and no obstructions in the area.

I'm dying to get into the HD world, I was gonna get a E* PVR-921 box, but they are too new for my taste as of now.

I live around Hagen Ranch Rd. & Hypoluxo Rd. about 3 mi. from the antenna farm off 441 just south of Lantana Rd., and use the Sony HD-200 Sat/OTA receiver with the Zenith SS on top of my entertainment ctr. I pull in all WPB DT channels including WPBF-DT which broadcasts from north of WPB. I get in WPTV-DT, WPEC-DT, WPBF-DT, WFLX-DT, 34.1, and a couple more - all with "normal" to "good" signals (approx. 70%-95% strength).

All I can suggest is to try it; unfortunately you won't know what OTA channels you can actually pull in until you actually try it. Either way though, if you subscribe to a sat or cable service, you could get some good HD channels. I have D*TV with the HD Package (Discovery-HD, HBO-HD, ESPN-HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies), HBO and Starz (no Starz-HD channel yet; hopefully D*TV will be adding the Starz-HD channel and a couple more HD channels this spring as rumored). D*TV also has a nice PPV-HD Movie channel as well.

There are others on this thread that live closer to your area in Royal PB and Wellington that have had some experiences getting OTA DT reception; maybe some will respond. Good luck.

Go to Brandsmart if you need a Samsung SIRT151. They are selling them new for $298.00!:D

Just picked one up! Awesome deal!

OK, looking for some help. I have the sirt151 box. I bought the SS antenna. I can get the following channels, but I have to move the antenna each time to get these channels: 16.1 ABC, 34.1 WTVX, 5.1 NBC. I can not get 29.1, Fox and I can not get 12.1 CBS. Will getting a Radio Shack multidirectional antenna help?

Where are you in Florida? That might help some of the experts here help you.

I live in the Acreage. This is in the central Palm Beach County area. But, I am about 15-20 miles west of the coast. And a correction now. I can now get 34.1, 5.1, 16.1 and 29.1. No CBS, 12.1 still.

Believe CBS 12.1 (13), is actually VHF and the SS (UHF only?) will not pick it up.

I tried a SS from my home Palm City (north of you) and with a Radio Shack amp and the SS, I was not able to get everything.

So, I went and got a Radio Shack UHF Yahi and a Channel Master 13db amp and now the reception is perfect EXCEPT for CBS (your 12.1). Being VHF, I am now awaiting the arrival of a HI Band VHF antenna (from Stark Electronics) to hook up with the UHF Yagis in order to get the VHF CBS 12.1 station.

You MAY have to do the same thing.... otheres here will be better able to tell you yes or no.

Bob Wagner

So, if I stick with the ss, and get the signal amplifier from RS, that may help me get CBS without having to move the antenna each time?

Possibly... following is a quote for bsgoren (which has a SS and gets cbs (wpec dt)

start quote from bsgoren
I live around Hagen Ranch Rd. & Hypoluxo Rd. about 3 mi. from the antenna farm off 441 just south of Lantana Rd., and use the Sony HD-200 Sat/OTA receiver with the Zenith SS on top of my entertainment ctr. I pull in all WPB DT channels including WPBF-DT which broadcasts from north of WPB. I get in WPTV-DT, WPEC-DT, WPBF-DT, WFLX-DT, 34.1, and a couple more - all with "normal" to "good" signals (approx. 70%-95% strength).
end quote from bsgoren


So, try the amp and see what happens.... I got mine at Lowes. But remember, that in my situation, I actually have to get a VHF (for channel 12.1 CBS) antenna.

I got an intermittent signal from 12.1 and 12.2 tonight. I lost it though very quickly. So, at least I know I can get it.
I have another question though. Do the local stations such as WFLX, Fox, broadcast 24/7 or do they shut off their transmitters at certain times? I had a good signal on 29.1 until 11:00pm then sometime after, I lost it altogether.

Finally, gotta say, The Tonight Show in HD is amazing.

a couple of em start at Noon... believe 29.1 is one of them and pax (69.1? (I forget my numbers/stations and do not have the list here)), is the other. Check after Noon and all should be transmitting

Am I the only one who is having sound problems with WPEC-DT 12.1? I get only 2 channel stereo--no center channel, no 5.1. For a short time this was not the case, but the problem returned. I know that at one point Dave McRoy admitted to Dolby problems, but I have not heard anything lately.

robocop974,

I also live out in Loxahatachee and have had to result in getting an A/B switch from Radioshack and having 2 antenna's 1 pointed north and the other pointed south. 16-1 and 34-1 are Northwest of most of Lox and 5-1, 12-1, 29-1 are all south/southwest of lox.

I had the best results with the Radioshack DoubleBowTie as it is not fully directional and could pull 16-1 and 34-1 off the back side of the antenna when set ontop of my entertainment center. This is now the antenna I use for north stations and I have a channelmaster 4228 so I can get all the south stations including the miami stations.

Let me know if you have any further questions I will try to help.

I have the same problem.. On all the digital's (5.1, 29.1 etc) Except for 12.1, the sound is 5.1 surround sound (Pro Logic) and the center speakers are firing.

On 12.1, the Yamaha switches to Dolby Digital, and the center speaker is silent. I thought it might be a problem with the way I had my sound going through the Yamaha, but really did not think this to be the case because the other digitals were fine.

Your post now convinces me that the difference is the way CBS (12.1) is transmitting. Don't know how to resolve it yet (or if they have to) but, one thing is for sure. Unless you and I have identical setups, the problem is at the transmitting (and not our recieving) end.

Bob Wagner

I had the same problem for a while but it resolved itself right around when David said they were working on the problem.

Bob:

We are not out of the woods yet. I also have a Yamaha--an RX-V2300.

12-1 has always been iffy. I used to think it was my setup as well, until I realized that was the only channel with the problem, and someone fron channel 12 responded to my e-mail query about it.

Bighitter,

Thank you for the reply. I think I am going to get an outside antenna and do away with the inside. Hopefully this will help with 12.1, and allow me to get the Miami stations as well. I have good success on 5.1, 29.1, 34.1 with the SS thus far. But I think I will end up going with a single outside antenna to get everything off of one.

Any thoughts on this set up would be welcome

When 12.1 is broadcasting true HD (ie a football game), the center speakers are firing and all is well with the sound. IT is only when they are not broadcasting HD that the sound is off (in the center speakers).

Bob, you are correct.

When we broadcast anything other than a CBS HD program that is sent to us by CBS in Dolby Digital 5.1, our signal locks home decoders to front left and right only. This is wrong and I have told our engineers about this and they have said the problem will be addressed. You should be able to decode anything with your Dolby ProLogic decoder other than genuine 5.1 material. The way things are supposed to work you should be able to leave your DD decoder in ProLogic (or ProLogic II) so that it defaults to ProLogic (or ProLogic II) in the absence of genuine DD 5.1 code.

I guess its time for me to push harder on this. Thanks for bringing this issue up!

Hi David,
First, thanks for the response. I have (which at the time was fairly sophisticated) Yamaha 995. Alas, like anything else (our selves included) it is getting older.

However, this particular unit does detect signals (Pro Logic or Dolby Digital) and decodes same. For example, if I am playing a regular ole DVD Blockbuster movie, Dolby Digital displays in the Yamaha, and the sound (all speakers (L, C, R, Sur1 and Sur2) are firing. Otherwise, if watching TV, the display shows Prol Logic.

Therefore, I do not believe the Yamaha is incorecctly decoding, I simply think the input signal is (as you so kindly said) in error. As a work around, if I am watching 12.1 non HD, I will switch it over to D*. Otherwise, if 12.1 is HD, I go back to OTA.

Thanks again

robocop, what city are you in? Your location directly affects the answer to your question.

I just had a sitdown with our engineer in charge of the project to get our DTV audio where it should be, reaffirming that he is aware that all is not yet right. The reason for this is that he has undertaken the task of reconfiguring parts our Dolby Digital audio chain, replacing some equipment and rewiring some things as part of this, towards being able to implement metadata as it pertains to audio. And while he is confident that all will work correctly upon completion, we are right now at a point where home decoders are seeing only left and right front audio when there's no real DD 5.1 available. (According to Dolby Labs we may be the only CBS affiliate to have started working towards implementing audio metadata rather than simply hardwiring everything to work without it as just about everyone else seems to be doing.)

Once we're able to pass audio metadata we will have the capability of doing things such as passing DialNorm information and even more exotic info, such as how big the speakers were and where they were located in the original sound mixing control room on a given production that your decoder may be able to use to better conform the Dolby Digital signal for reproduction in your sound system.

David,
Thanks for the followup, concern and answering the comments... Appreciate the support.

Bob

Bob,

I just upgraded all of my home theater audio gear with an Outlaw 755 power amplifier and an Outlaw 950 Pre/Pro, which is much more sophistcated and up to date than what I had before. I also updated to Magnepan's latest center channel speaker, the CC3 and the MC1s for surrounds. Trust me, I'd love to be able to hear Curt and Liz on the CC3! :rolleyes:

Wow nice equipment upgrade! So when is the get together at your house going to be? ;)

Thanks for your valuable input David, I have a much better understanding of what's going on now !

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Thanks for your valuable input David, I have a much better understanding of what's going on now !

If you would like to know more about metadata you can do a web search using GOOGLE on define:Metadata . It will give you several definitions for Metadata. These are general definitions which mostly apply to HTML (Web) based applications and not how it's used in digital audio. I hope this helps.....

David.... your equipment upgrade top rate. I am gonna just stick with the yamaha tuner, klipsch speakers, and the Hit 65 incher etc as they are performing top notch. And, I am from the ole school, if it aint broke, dont fix it.

One thing I just did that is kinda neat is install a Linksys 54 gig wireless media player so that I can transmit pictures or music from my computer room system(s) to the big home media center. So, I just sit there and control it from the TV room and listen to the music (or watch the pictures) on the big stuff.

God I love technology........................when it works ha ha

Bob

New to board and HD as of today. I'm in East Boca Raton, between 95 and Federal, just north of broward line.

Got the Samsung SIR T151 and Zenith SS this afternoon. As of this evening here is what I was receiving:
2-1, 2-2, 2-5 (until about 11pm?)
4-1 (WFOR-CBS Miami)
5-1 (WPTV-NBC WPB)
6-1 (WTVJ-NBC Miami)
29-1 (WFLX-Fox WPB)
33-1 (UPN-Miami)---watched the Heat!!!Awesome
Multiple WB channels (33-1, 39-1, 75-1)
Also several Spanish channels....

All of the above are UHF (obviously as SS only pulls in UHF.)

The VHF channels I'm missing (and care about) are
WPEC-CBS WPB 12.1
WSVN-Fox Miami 7.1
WPBF-ABC WPB 10.1
WPLG-ABC Miami 25.1

Like Bob733 (I think) my SS is sitting on top of the Entertainment unit and pointing S/SE. I have no amp at this point.

I'd hate to scrap the SS since its doing such a great job, but I'd really like to pull in at least one of the VHF ABC channels.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance. What a great board.

WPBF-DT 25.1 broadcasts on channel 16 (UHF) from Martin County. Try pointing your antenna North.

Originally posted by lumberman
I'd hate to scrap the SS since its doing such a great job, but I'd really like to pull in at least one of the VHF ABC channels.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance. What a great board.

Lumberman - I'm in Delray and also have the SS antenna but with Sammy 351. I get the same stations also from the SS on top of my Entertainment cabinet but I have my SS pointed directly SOUTH which allows me to get CBS 12-1. I know I'm a little bit closer to WPB but I can pick up the ABC station 16-1 by turning my SS so it's pointing WEST. By the way, the WPB ABC station is on channel 16-1 and it does not remap to 25-1. So you must tune your STB to 16-1.

My suggestion is to move your SS around a lot of locations cause I've found just moving it a little really can change your reception. I've also tried adding a 10dB RS amp to the SS. Its a very mixed bag, helps on some stations and hurts on others. That would be something else you could try.

WPBF-DT, ABC, Tequesta, FL, channel 16-1...their tower is just west of I-95 near Stuart, FL along with WTVX-DT.

Thanks for the replies.

I think I'll try the amp and moving the thing around a bit. I'm skeptical I'll be able to get WPBF down here, but I'll keep trying.

I'm thinking about putting the SS in the attic, any thoughts?

By the way, when I tune the STB (151 Sam) to 16.1 or 12.1 all it displays is, "16-0(or 12-0)....NO SIGNAL".

The STB was a steal at Brandsmart, should I go for the 351?

Thanks again.

Originally posted by lumberman
Thanks for the replies.

I think I'll try the amp and moving the thing around a bit. I'm skeptical I'll be able to get WPBF down here, but I'll keep trying.

I'm thinking about putting the SS in the attic, any thoughts?

By the way, when I tune the STB (151 Sam) to 16.1 or 12.1 all it displays is, "16-0(or 12-0)....NO SIGNAL".

The STB was a steal at Brandsmart, should I go for the 351?

Thanks again.

Lumberman - My understanding is that the 151 and 351 are basically the same unit with the 351 having a DVI connection and the 151 without. If you don't need a DVI connection, you are fine with the 151. On the attic installation, I don't know if you will gain anything. My experience with the SS is a small change in location makes a great difference on you getting a picture. In my case, I can move the SS one foot to the south from its "Perfect" location and I loose 2 stations. I'm not talking about changing the direction it's pointing, only the location on my wall unit. I think it would be difficult to fine that "perfect" location working up in the attic.

On the two stations you are trying to receive (12.1 and 16.1), tune to each one and use your signal strength meter on our STB channel menu and see what kind of reading you get. My 351 will show "NO SIGNAL" just because it can't lock on the signal. When you check your meter, you may see you are actually getting a good signal just no lock. Leave you meter up and start moving around your SS and see where you get the best signal. In my case I could always get a strong signal on 12.1 but the STB wouldn't lock. I also found that 16.1 had a medium signal without a lock. By moving the SS around, I found the spot for each station. For 16.1, I got my lock by facing the SS to the west.

It takes a lot of playing to find that perfect location for the SS. Hard to do that in the attic.

It is not too hard trying the SS in the attic if:

you have a friend like Joel Graffman who comes to your house (like he did mine),

climbs up in your attic,

bending in different directions like a pretzel,

getting sweaty,

ruining shirts with attic dust,

tip toeing around the attic beams so as not to cave in the cieling,

removoing and reaiming the antenna

tieing the antenna to the highest beam

ALL THE WHILE YOU ARE DOWNSTAIRS SIPPING A COKE, WATCHING THE TV PICTURE CHANGING (WHEN JOEL MOVES THE ANTENNA), AND YELLING THINGS "LIKE MOVE IT A LITTLE MORE IN THE SAME DIRECTIONS JOEL, YOU ARE GETTING THE PICTURE ALMOST PERFECT NOW"

No, it is not difficult. But you aint gonna find too many people to help you like Joel helped me either.

Bob

How about WPTV's Dolby Digital sound last night? Wow!!
Best D.D. sound I've heard on the locals yet.

Thank You David Mckinley!

So what's wrong with WPEC-DT? Is it just me?

No, it is not you. They are having (apparently) treamendous audio drop out problems today. In fact, I switched the gave over to D* which was a shame as I wanted the HD
Bob

Well, I can quite adjusting my antenna now. What a shame, the last game of the year on CBS and now this crap. How long will it take for them to figure this out? minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, or never?
dan

guess what, 4-1 is perfect. usually don't get it, but maybe with the atmosphere today, I'm in luck!

I'm getting audio and video dropouts along with constant pixellation yet my signal is a steady 100 percent. So we are back to this crap again with WPEC and E-86 clones. I can get 4-1 with my attic antenna but the signal drops out when planes go over. I should get my DirecTiVo receiver in March so hopefully it will get WPEC's faulty signal better than this one does.

i've got the new samsung and it doesnt work either, so the receiver is not the problem. btw, miami 4-1 is 36% perfect picture and sound, in juno beach on 3rd floor.

The shape of HD transmission in the WPB area continues to be abismal! I'm experiencing a very high level of video and audio dropouts with the WPEC-DT feed today. What a shame to spend all this money on equipment and not be able to get reliable OTA WPB HD broadcasts.

Originally posted by lwhitefl
The shape of HD transmission in the WPB area continues to be abismal! I'm experiencing a very high level of video and audio dropouts with the WPEC-DT feed today. What a shame to spend all this money on equipment and not be able to get reliable OTA WPB HD broadcasts.

I know what you mean Len. It seems like we were talking about this last year during the playoffs - we were. What was the phone number for WPEC?

If someone will post a phone number that will actually allow me to talk with someone in a position of responsibility, I'll be more than willing to register a complaint. Maybe if enough of us are willing to do that, we'll begin getting a reliable HD picture. As things stand it looks like we're not going to be able to watch the Super Bowl in HD either since WPECDT is broadcasting that. Oh Nooooo!!!

No live person to speak with but there is a FAX number:
561/842-1212
Let them hear from you!

This is, without a doubt, BEYOND COMPREHENSION after all the time they have had to work out the bugs.

I think we need a more concerted effort than sending faxes - some clerk will probably just throw those in the trash. Is there anyway we can start a petition? If we could somehow use this facility to obtain enough electronic signatures, and then somehow transmit that to WPECDT, maybe someone in authority will be willing to do something.

letters to FCC

President of Freedom Broadcasting Doreen Wade (dwade@wpecnews12.com)
Station Manager Donn Colee (dcolee@wpecnews12.com)
I will find some FCC links too.

Thanks ElectricPickle - I'm going to compose a very strongly worded email to the WPECDT station manager in the hope something positive will happen.

4-1 is stronger than usual - audio and picture perfect. Let's hope the weather on Super Bowl Sunday is just like today!

so, the superbowl is on CBS???
i might as well cancel the party at my house. that is a shame, we would have all enjoyed the game on the 100" screen. grrrrrrrrrr. i cant trust the tv station , risk messing up the party.
Now i'm pissed

FCC Website (http://www.fcc.gov)

E-Mail: General and Status Inquiries


General e-mail should be sent to: FCCINFO@FCC.GOV. CGB staff will acknowledge such inquiries within two business days. If unable to fully respond within two days, provide an estimate of time based on the complexity of the inquiry. Total time will not exceed 20 business days. Bureau/Office staff will acknowledge status inquiries within two business days and provide an estimate of time for a full response, based on the complexity of the inquiry. Total time will not exceed 20 business days.

FCC Email (FCCINFO@FCC.GOV)

I sent this to Wade, Colee and the FCC:

Well it has come to this. My usual mild mannered nature has changed to anger and frustration and prompted me to finally do something about it. For two years now the digital TV broadcasters here in Palm Beach County Florida have not been able to produce a viewable digital OTA signal for any constant length of time. Two broadcasters in particular have done such a poor job that people in Palm Beach County are raising their antennas and pointing them south to try and pick up the Miami affiliates. Those two broadcasters are WPTV-DT Channel 5 (NBC) and WPEC-DT Channel 12 (CBS). Last year during the football playoffs these local area broadcasters failed to produce a viewable HDTV signal and this year is exactly the same. There is nothing like inviting friends and family over to watch the playoffs in high definition on your expensive home theater system only to be forced to watch it in analog. Why? Because these broadcasters do not give a damn about us. Apparently there are not enough of us to make them send someone out on a weekend to fix the problem. They don’t even fix it during the work week. It’s apparently not a priority for them.



I have talked to many other HDTV enthusiasts here and they all say that complaints continue to go unheard by these broadcasters. What form do I have to fill out with the FCC to make a formal complaint about this?

I sent the following email to the WPEC station manager:

I purchased an HDTV and two Hughes E86 DirecTV HD receivers in March 2002 in anticipation of WPB OTA HD broadcasts. I can't begin to describe how disappointed I've been regarding the HD telecasts from WPECDT and other WPB HD stations since that time.

Even though my receiver shows I'm receiving a 100 digital signal strength, today's NFL AFC Championship game telecast in HD by CBS is impossible to watch because of frequent pixelization and audio dropouts. WPEC regularly and proudly promotes "high quality high definition" availability for this area, but has failed to transmit a reliable signal for any continuous length of time. This has been the case since WPECDT began broadcasting HD telecasts. Your HD promotions are an insult to consumers that spend considerable dollars in an effort to receive local HD programming. If you would like a sample of what many of local HD consumers think of WPB OTA HD telecasts, take a look at the posts on the AVS Forum "Local HDTV Info and Reception" for WPB http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108284. This is a very large forum with many postings so you may have to spend some time looking at the various posts - I recommend you go to the last page which represents the current situation and work backward.

I'm writing this email in the hope that someone at WPEC really cares that your HD promotions are considered fabrications to many of us and we consider the unreliable HD signal your station is broadcasting to be an insult. I wish it was in my power to change the Super Bowl telecast from CBS to whatever WPB OTA HD station was broadcasting a reliable signal that day, but I'm afraid I'll most likely have to watch the game in SD. This situation has been going on for far too long, it's resulting in many local HD consumers becoming extremely frustrated, and is probably resulting in a less than good reputation for the station you manage.

Sincerely,
Len White
Palm City, FL

I also just sent a similar email to the FCC address ElectricPickle posted.

I agree the channel 12 HDTV broadcast was abysmal. Letters to the FCC and Freedom Broadcasting, though ? Seriously, guys - are your lives consumed by HDTV ?

On a side note, I have been watching channel 4 instead of 12 because of the drop outs, but today I could not get their signal. Must have been the rain, only thing I can figure.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
I agree the channel 12 HDTV broadcast was abysmal. Letters to the FCC and Freedom Broadcasting, though ? Seriously, guys - are your lives consumed by HDTV ?

On a side note, I have been watching channel 4 instead of 12 because of the drop outs, but today I could not get their signal. Must have been the rain, only thing I can figure.

Are you serious? I can't believe any HD enthusiast would condone what's been going on with the WPB OTA stations since they began broadcasting. It's comments like yours that provide support to these low standards. I didn't spend considerable dollars for HD equipment to be able to view this low level of broadcast quality and no one else should either. Unfortunately for me I also don't live close enough to pickup the south Florida stations. The next time you consider buying HD equipment, why don't you simply throw the money out the window instead.

Is anyone experiencing audio and video break ups on WFLX-DT? I am watching the NFC Championship game and it is breaking up occasionally. I wanted to make sure it was the station and not my equipment.

Yes I'm afraid WFLXDT is not ready for prime time either. Not only are they only 480p, but they also don't have a stable broadcast. Although the pixelization is not nearly as bad as WPECDT was during the AFC Championship game, it is affecting the quality of the NFC Championship game broadcast.

I agree with Len and the others that have expressed dissatisfaction with CBS Dt transmissions in WPB. It is one thing to test, it is another entirely other thing to try to pass off HD tramissions as being legit and solid.

If you can not do it right, test some more then retry. Do not ruin you reputation with your feeble attempts at solid broadcasting.

Bob Wagner, Palm City Fl (who watched the games on D* tonight becaue your broadcast was incompetant)

Originally posted by ANSEK
Is anyone experiencing audio and video break ups on WFLX-DT? I am watching the NFC Championship game and it is breaking up occasionally. I wanted to make sure it was the station and not my equipment.

Yes, same here but only once every 10 minutes or so. Not even close to the horrible signal that WPEC-DT was spewing out. It seems that they have fixed it - for now any way. Will it last until February 1st for the super bowl?
Golly gee, it sure would be neat if it did. But that's OK, we can always watch the game on SD and we can wait until 2005 or 2006. I think they will have to file for an extension of time for shutting down their analog though. Maybe by 2010 they will have it all together.

I wouldn't plan on any successful HD Super Bowl parties with WPECDT in the driver's seat! But I'm not sure we could really count on any of the other WPB OTA HD stations either. What a sorry state of affairs.

Like other posters, I found that the WPEC-DT audio was very poor, however I had no problems with the NFC telecast on WFLX-DT.

Here's something you might want to try on Super-Sunday if the same problems persist. If your setup allows it, you can get around the audio problems by listening on WPEC (via a VCR tuner) and watching on WPEC-DT. The voice won't be synched, but for football it doesn't make much difference.

Len - do you really think a negative attitude and threatening letters will get us anywhere ? Do you really think that these stations are doing this on purpose ? This will all get settled in due time, with or without the ceaseless whining and beating the station managers about the head and shoulders.

I had the same problems yeaterday on WSVN-DT, WPLG-DT and WPEC-DT. All VHF DTV channels. Every other DTV station in Miami and West Palm Beach (all UHF) was fine. Using a Mitsubishi SR-HD5 (Hughes E86 clone) receiver. Think about it.

Originally posted by David McRoy
I had the same problems yeaterday on WSVN-DT, WPLG-DT and WPEC-DT. All VHF DTV channels. Every other DTV station in Miami and West Palm Beach (all UHF) was fine. Using a Mitsubishi SR-HD5 (Hughes E86 clone) receiver. Think about it.
So what you are saying is that any DT station that uses the VHF spectrum is subject to some kind of interference? By the way, your signal was bad the day before yesterday but I didn't "whine" about then. I figured that your engineers were on top of it and would have it fixed by game time.

I tuned local DTV stations late Saturday night (after SNL ) and had lots of pixelation on 8-1, 9-1 and 13-1. Everybody else who was still on the air at that hour looked fine.

I'm hoping that the problem is with early receivers' ability to deal with impulse noise interference, which can be man-made or due to atmospheric conditions. (I'm planning on upgrading to a new receiver when the DirecTV HD Tivo unit comes out at the end of March.) UHF has always seemed to propagate better here in Florida than in most other locales in North America and we're constantly experiencing atmospheric inversions due to our climate and weather here. I'm beginning to wonder whether VHF DTV assignments were a bad idea in the Florida Penninsula. Maybe they should have assigned everybody a UHF channel? Anyway, I hope it's a shortcoming on the part of the early receivers. We shall see.

For what it's worth, our region is a hotspot for tropospheric ducting for the next day or so:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html

Tropospheric ducting allows distant signals to interfere with local ones. Note that there are analog VHF TV stations on channels 8, 10 and 13 in Tampa.

It might be fun to check out these forecast maps as the next cold front moves through the area later this week and see whether as the ducting subsides our DTV reception on 8-1, 9-1 and 13-1 improves. Just a hunch.

I don't think its an early receiver problem, 'cause I had the same problems with a zenith sat 520. Maybe David is on to something.

According to posts in the Programming Forum, subscribers to DirecTV local stations in CBS O&O markets (including Miami) will receive CBS network HD programming via DirecTV in time for the Super Bowl.

I don't know the technicalities, but is there a way that you "northerners", via zip code manipulation, could be classified as "Miami subscribers"? (You would not necessarily have to be able to receive the Miami spot beam locals.)

You are welcome to try by using my zip code -- 33146. If your guide then shows the Miami locals, it might indicate that you are an honorary Miamian for CBS purposes.

No guarantees, but worth a try.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Len - do you really think a negative attitude and threatening letters will get us anywhere ? Do you really think that these stations are doing this on purpose ? This will all get settled in due time, with or without the ceaseless whining and beating the station managers about the head and shoulders.

I don't believe the criticism many of us have directed at the WPB OTA HD stations is "ceaseless whining". Almost two years should have been more than adequate time for any technically competent station to roll-out HDTV. That is unless they're not motivated until they see additional revenue streams. And yes I do think sending complaints to the appropriate people may help place more emphasis on getting the HD transmission right. It's better than condoning and supporting incompetence like you seemed to be inclined to do. If I had known how bad this roll-out was going to be, I would have delayed my HD purchases as I'm sure many others would have. Unreliable HD transmission will most likely turn away those potential buyers who are aware of the current state of affairs in WPB. That will have the potential to futher delay roll-out of HDTV.

Len, do not construe my dislike of whining as condoning incompetence. I am a member of a myriad of hobby forums ranging from digital SLR photography to off-roading and Jeep forums. Initially I really liked this forum for its great signal to noise ratio, but as time goes on, it seems to become more and more a forum for trashing the local stations HDTV attempts. In interest of not contributing to the very thing I am now complaining about, this will be my last post on this subject (probably to the great relief of all on here....)

I am really shocked to learn that you guys are still having major problems with the DTV transmissions from your locals. All is not 100% perfect here in the Miami market, but we don't seem to experience the sort of problems you all describe as frequently as you guys do. It's been my personal experience that communicating regularly with the station's engineering staff helps a great deal in identifying and correcting problems with the transmission. Though it is sometimes quite an inconvenience, I regularly contact the engineering department or the master control booth at WPLG, WPBT, WFOR, WBZL & WTVJ whenever something's not quite right. Granted, I'd rather not have to do it, but I realize that this is a transitional phase and that things will go wrong fairly often.

Overall, the gentlemen I've been dealing with have been very professional and courteous (I've even had invitations to tour the broadcast facilities at a couple of stations), and the results have made my efforts well worth it. I think I put a whole lot more effort into this whole DTV affair because it is my only way of receiving a decent signal from the locals, as well as my only source of HD. In fact, prior to the introduction of DTV broadcasts in this area, I was without access to any of the locals because of my cable TV service provider's incredibly poor signal, and DBS service has never been an option for me.

I hope all the letters you guys are writing result in at least some serious dialog among the affected parties. I really don't think anyone should just casually adopt a smug "analog will be around for a while so we don't have to worry about DTV right now" attitude. For the stations this could result in a very steep "learning curve" when analog broadcasts end and DTV is the only game in town. Better to "work out the bugs" now while making a concerted effort to provide a consistently high-quality product to the few who now have the equipment to view it. I found WFLX's chief engineer's contention that their DTV signal is not a 24/7 priority because of the "limited viewership" quite offensive (and right in line with WSVN's recently amended negative attitude towards DTV broadcasts in general). Such indifference can only generate ill-will on the part of viewers, and I would hate to think that the other Palm Beach stations share such a nonchalant stance on the quality of their DTV transmissions.

Thanks Rudy1 for your thoughtful response. Many of us have indeed contacted the chief engineer's at the various WPB stations. There have been periods of improvement, but alias we always seem to fall back to the frustrating pixelization and audio dropout problems. Hopefully your post will be taken as a beacon of light for the WPB stations. Perhaps they'll even contact the Miami stations, benefit from their expertise, and learn that it is possible to resolve the most perplexing and frustrating problems (e.g., pixelization & audio dropouts).

Thank you Rudy1. Very well put and I think you got to the main point of our frustration. We had this same level of service at this time last year and it seems (to some of us) that the broadcasters here do have that "we will fix it later" attitude.

I apologize to JeffBowser and others for turning this thread towards negativity and from now on I will not vent on this forum. It's just that this is the third football season that I have had my HDTV system and the third time that our local affiliates have disappointed me.

ElectricPickle - I have been a little harsh myself.

Interesting note from Rudy1 - I have taken to watching Miami stations instead of West Palm, because their signal usually seems so much more stable. Besides - it is nice to see diffeent commercials than I am used to !

One of our engineers has pointed out that, in addition to impulse noise and interference from distant VHF TV signals, our signal on channel 13 is susceptable to interference from harmonics generated by local FM radio stations. Time to pick up an FM trap filter...I'll let you know if I see any improvement.

David - the FM trap - is this on the station equipment, or is it placed on my equipment ? If this is the case, how does this bode for ever getting a solid HD signal from WPB stations ?

It's an inexpensive filter that you can get at Radio Shack. It's in the form of a 75 Ohm device with F-connectors on each end.ou plug it in between your antenna and the RF input of your receiver. I'll get one today and see if I see any improvement over the coming days.

Here's one:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F003%5F001%5F003%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D577

Do you guys see a diagonal "herringbone" patern runing through you channel 12 analog picture? (I see one on all my analog VHF channels.)

Hey - now there is an affordable piece of equipment !

One thing I noticed during the now infamous football telecast was that the audio problems occurred only during the network feed. When local commercials were shown the audio was fine. Apparently the problem was something in the network/HD station interface.

Since there is no local FM transmitters here in Palm City, It would seem that FM harmonics are not the problem. I wouldn't rush out to buy an FM trap.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
ElectricPickle - I have been a little harsh myself.

Interesting note from Rudy1 - I have taken to watching Miami stations instead of West Palm, because their signal usually seems so much more stable. Besides - it is nice to see diffeent commercials than I am used to !

Jeff - I too am watching a lot of Miami CBS station 4-1. It, along with PBS 2-1, are the most stable signals I can get. Speaking of good looking pictures, check out the local evening news telecast on CBS 4-1 sometime. I'm not talking about PQ here, but what's on the screen. :D

I wish I could get 2-x. My little antenna setup is not enough to grab it. I will check out the newscast !

[i]

Since there is no local FM transmitters here in Palm City, It would seem that FM harmonics are not the problem. I wouldn't rush out to buy an FM trap. [/B]

Actually, you're "bathing" in FM signals just as much as most of the rest of us.;)

Originally posted by JeffBowser
I wish I could get 2-x. My little antenna setup is not enough to grab it. I will check out the newscast !

Jeff - I forget, what antenna are you using? SS? I was using the SS but just updated to the RS HDTV indoor amplified antenna. It's working really great for me here in Delray. I don't know the RS model number but it's their top of the line ($49) indoor antenna. This antenna is really great cause you can attach a second antenna to it. By tossing a switch on the back of the RS you can go from the RS to the SS antennas. So I have a configuration of the RS pointing south and the SS pointing north. With the RS amp turned all the way up, I get great signals (8+ on my Sammy 351) for Miami stations 2-1, 4-1, 6-1, 23-1, 34-1, 39-1, 47-1. A couple of these are Spanish language stations. I can still get 5-1 and 29-1 with the RS antenna but get some drop offs. By switching to the SS pointed north I'm back in business with WPB stations 5-1, 12-1, 16-1, 29-1. You being further south, the RS should give you great reception of the Miami stations!

Dave you are much more likely receive an interfering signal from the spurious output of an FM transmitter if you are near the transmitting antenna. This isn't the case for me, and I did have audio breakups during the digital broadcast.

I am just trying to clarify the problem and not trying to criticize your station. I am sure that are more pressing problems than ironing out digital broadcasts which have comparatively few viewers.

Kenni - I had a full blown, full size UHF/VHF antenna in my attic, but discovered my double dade-county approved (and retro-fitted) roof with cement tile attenuated the signal too much (same for indoor TV-top antennas). I get all but the 2-x stations with the simple half-circle antenna attached to my DirecTV dish. I do get the 2-x stations, but drop out is severe to complete depending on weather.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Kenni - I had a full blown, full size UHF/VHF antenna in my attic, but discovered my double dade-county approved (and retro-fitted) roof with cement tile attenuated the signal too much (same for indoor TV-top antennas). I get all but the 2-x stations with the simple half-circle antenna attached to my DirecTV dish. I do get the 2-x stations, but drop out is severe to complete depending on weather.

I understand. Sorry about that because some of the BEST shows as far as PQ is coming off 2-1. They can totally blow away the HD programs being shown on network. I wish Adelphia would get with the program and add some more HD stations (at least PBS-Miami, FOX and CBS) to their HD service.

Last night's presidential address provided a unique opportunity to compare HDTV video quality of the WPB stations. Here is the unscientific results from my perspective.

Best video. WPTV, however the audio was not synchronized at all.

Not quite as much detail, but OK. WPEC, WPBF. Audio OK.

Poor. WFLX. Perhaps better than analog, but didn't seem to be up to 480p quality.

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
Last night's presidential address provided a unique opportunity to compare HDTV video quality of the WPB stations. Here is the unscientific results from my perspective.

Best video. WPTV, however the audio was not synchronized at all.

Not quite as much detail, but OK. WPEC, WPBF. Audio OK.

Poor. WFLX. Perhaps better than analog, but didn't seem to be up to 480p quality.

Question - WPTV (5-1) was in HD for the SOTUA? If it was then I have a problem with both my STB and Adelphia Box. I don't believe 5-1 ever switched over to HD, unless they changed after a few minutes into the speech. I watched most of the address from 4-1 and 6-1 both in Miami. I did check out the WPB ABC WPBF-DT 16-1 feed to compare the 720p to 1080i pictures. The best detailed picture was off the Miami CBS WFOR-DT (4-1) with NBC WTVJ-DT (6-1) right there too. IMO, both were sharper and had a better PQ than the ABC WPBF 720P feed. I can agree that FOX 29-1 WFLX must have stayed in 480i. Their PQ for Football at 480P was much better than the picture last they aired last night.

WPTV-DT was in SD at the beginning of the State of the Union address. I don't know whether or when they switched to HD since I watched WPEC-DT instead.

Re: FM traps...

Installed one yesterday but it caused no improvement in reception of the three VHF DTV channels in my location (although it did have a definite effect on reducing the visible herringbone interference pattern in analog VHF stations.) Once again, like clockwork, I began experiencing severe disruptions as dusk approached on WSVN-DT (8-1), WPLG-DT (9-1) and WPEC-DT (13-1.) By the time the SOTU address was on at 9 p. m. WPEC-DT was perfect. :rolleyes:

This morning at least one of our receivers (a professional demod) here at the studio was breaking up badly. I expect that it'll clear up later in the morning. We'll see.

Originally posted by David McRoy
WPTV-DT was in SD at the beginning of the State of the Union address. I don't know whether or when they switched to HD since I watched WPEC-DT instead.

David - thanks for comforming that WPTV-DT was in SD at least in the beginning. With two HD sources, I didn't think I was having equipment problems.

The short time I watched the WPECDT signal I saw frequent pixelization again. WFLXDT was better than analog, but I also didn't think it was 480p quality.

Agree, WPTV was not HD at the beginning of the telecast. Not sure when they switched, but they did.

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
Agree, WPTV was not HD at the beginning of the telecast. Not sure when they switched, but they did.

Thanks Joel - I gave up on them after a while and never when back to check.

FWIW, all of the receivers at the studio are breaking up badly this morning on our DTV signal.

Ah, that's great news, actually, David.......

Some time ago memebers focused on 'breakups' originating from the older generation tuners incorporated in early STB's. Is that still the case? About a year ago I switched from Sony HD100's to HD200's, and have not had a single problem receiving any (satellite of course or) over-air So. Florida station in my range. WPTV (5.1) and WFLX (29.1) both come in perfectly; with the limits on resolution understood on Fox so far. But the main point is that 5.1 has no problems whatsoever received here in Fort Lauderdale; of course there are no regular glitches on the Miami stations, and I cannot but assume that either RF interference OR the continued use of the earlier ATSC tuners lies at the root of the problem. If so, the broadcasters can't be fully blamed for what was basically prototype technology the retail box makers were providing in their early renditions. Point is: no problem on any 2002 or 2003 (or certainly 2004) tuners; and that includes that built-into my new Sony XBR (70), which has open-cable and ATSC built in... relative to the HD 200; they are all just fine; hence the question; maybe some of the early adopters have to stop railing at the stations, and get new boxes (or wait for the TiVo HD, and get the best of both worlds). Just a thought..

regards,

HiDefDave, I too noticed the "breakups" at dusk (about 1830 hours). I think your theory may be correct but to what extent? I do not notice any interference patterns on analog VHF stations where I am but I do see changes in PQ due to signal strength at different times of the day (and season). What does the company that manufactures your DT transmitting equipment say about it?

OK, I guess I'm confused! I purchased my Hughes E86 HD receiver in May 2002. The E86 is still being sold aggressively at places like Circuit City, yet from many of the posts I've read on this forum indicate the E86 is a 1st generation receiver? And as a 1st generation receiver, it supposedly is less capable of rejecting things like multipath which is contributing to the pixelization problems I'm having? If this is the case, does anyone know if there's a software update to the E86 that will resolve the alleged deficiencies?

Len--
The E86 pixellization problems are caused primarily by overheating. Does the signal indicator flutter rapidly when you are having problems?

This can be eliminated by the addition of a fan -- either a small computer fan (Radio Shack) placed atop the receiver or a small desk fan (Office Depot, etc) placed so as to blow gently across the top of the receiver. The fan should run 24/7, as the receiver is always "on" -- even when switched off.

There are several threads on this subject in the Hardware Forum.

(If you already have a fan, ignore the above.)

Re: Old vs. newer receivers...

We were seeing bad breakup on a Samsung 351, a Zenith 420 (both of which are less than one year old) and several professional receivers all at the same time yesterday. I use a Hughes E86 clone at home along with a 1st generation Zenith tuner and they react identically when there's breakup. (I gave my RCA DTC100 to a friend who works here.)

And today we're seeing no problems at all. I actually saw no problems at dusk yesterday and into the evening, either. Go figure.

As far as using a fan, I would assume I would be experiencing problems with all the station instead of just the VHF DTV stations if heat were a problem? At any rate, the ambient temperature in my house hovers around 69 degrees day and night and only around 73 when I use the A/C so I don't think heat is an issue. And as I said all these other receivers display the same exact behavior.

David--
Feel the top of the E86. I don't think that ambient temperature is a factor. I swapped three E86 type receivers -- the first one a Mitsubishi HD5 -- before reading of the fan solution. They all were fine at first, but declined as time went by. The current one was on its last legs, but made a miraculous recovery once the fan was added.

Apparently, many people have not had a problem with oveheating, but, according to the Hardware Forum, many have. It seems to affect only the OTA DT tuner,and does not differentiate between VHF and UHF, affecting all OTA channels.

Bill,

You have confirmed that I do not have an overheating issue. I only have intermittent breakup on the three VHF DTV channels. All the others are fine.

I will be moving to Lake Worth in the spring to a development located between the Turnpike at 441 at Lantana. I understand that Adelphia is the cable provider.

Is Adelphia providing any HD programming in that area?

If so, what is being provided?

If not, what are their future plans?

Thanks in advance, looking forward to being your neighbor.

Originally posted by abramsky
I will be moving to Lake Worth in the spring to a development located between the Turnpike at 441 at Lantana. I understand that Adelphia is the cable provider.

Is Adelphia providing any HD programming in that area?

If so, what is being provided?

If not, what are their future plans?

Thanks in advance, looking forward to being your neighbor.

I have their HD service. They just rolled it out in December. Right now you can get 3- stations. 16-1 ABC on channel 701, 5-1 NBC on Channel 704, and Showtime HD on channel 754. For those that already have their digital cable service, you just need to get their HD box (same cost as the old box for the first 2 months after that the box costs an addition $4 a month). If you have Showtime, you get the HD station without charge. Otherwise, you'll need to subscribe to Showtime. They said they would be adding more stations as time goes by.

abramsky - I would seriously consider satellite instead. My experiences with Adelphia's picture quality have been terrible, even AFTER they ran fiber optic. I do not know about HD offerings, others he can comment better on that.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
abramsky - I would seriously consider satellite instead. My experiences with Adelphia's picture quality have been terrible, even AFTER they ran fiber optic. I do not know about HD offerings, others he can comment better on that.

Jeff - PQ is excellent on their HD channels. I was really surprised myself. When Showtime actually has a HD movie and not just an upcoverted one, they are excellent. With no cost for the first two months, you can't beat it!

But do their non-HD channels still look snowy, blurry, washed out, etc.. ? That was always my problem. No matter what they did - new cable, new filters, signal boosters, fiber optic, the pic quality was barely broadcast grade. To boot, DirecTV was cheaper by $20.

Kenni_o Thanks for your input. Does this mean that Adelphia is not carrying:

CBS
HBO HD
Discovery HD
ESPN HD
INHD
HDNET

If not, I may be looking at a dish. I know the HOA includes analog cable. I wonder if I can just buy the HD programming from one of the satellite providers and get all the networks OTA.

Ugh, homeowners associations. You poor guy. Good luck, and remember - if you do get a dish, Federal law overrides any petty HOA rules about antennas and dishes.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
But do their non-HD channels still look snowy, blurry, washed out, etc.. ? That was always my problem. No matter what they did - new cable, new filters, signal boosters, fiber optic, the pic quality was barely broadcast grade. To boot, DirecTV was cheaper by $20.

Hard to answer your question because the TV itself make a big difference. I have a 27" Wega in the bedroom and the cable looks horrible but I don't have it on the digital box, just the basic analog cable channels. The same feed to the GWIII in the family room looks a 1000% better. I know, I had it checked and it's the same strength signal and I switched splitters with the same results.

The PQ gets much better on the Digital part of the cable (CH 101+). The HD stations that I can compare (ABC 16-1 and NBC 5-1), the OTA is maybe 5-10% better. I would assume that's from the compression to put it out over the cable vs. the native OTA signal.

It's been 2 years since I have had cable, but back when I had it, the picture was terrible on my 24, 27, and 32" glass, and worse on my 50" projection. With DirecTV, the pq is great, and I now have a 65" projection HDTV. There wasn't any true digital available back then, though. I recall getting so mad at them, trying to watch the Dolphins games, and the picture was so bad you couldn't see what players were what.

Originally posted by abramsky
Kenni_o Thanks for your input. Does this mean that Adelphia is not carrying:

CBS
HBO HD
Discovery HD
ESPN HD
INHD
HDNET

If not, I may be looking at a dish. I know the HOA includes analog cable. I wonder if I can just buy the HD programming from one of the satellite providers and get all the networks OTA.

You got it! The installers told me they were adding HBO-HD after the first of the year and looking into other stations. My guess is they just wanted to get the service out and available. You may want to check into OTA. From what you said, you are on top of the broadcast antenna farm. Its somewhere around 441 and Lantana. We have a couple of station engineers (WPTV and WPEC) that are members of this thread, maybe they can give you a better idea were it's located.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
It's been 2 years since I have had cable, but back when I had it, the picture was terrible on my 24, 27, and 32" glass, and worse on my 50" projection. With DirecTV, the pq is great, and I now have a 65" projection HDTV. There wasn't any true digital available back then, though. I recall getting so mad at them, trying to watch the Dolphins games, and the picture was so bad you couldn't see what players were what.

Jeff - do you have fiber optics cable where you are located? When they ran the new fiber cable here last year it changed the PQ a lot! What you are describing is what I also had before the new cable.

Yeah, they ran the fiber, I waited for that, and when my PG changed not in the least, I told them to take their service and place it where the sun don't shine. Even if they did have great pq, my DirecTV package, with more channels was still $20 a month less than what those thieves were taking from me. Hmmm... I guess it shows I don't like Adelphia much....... Didn't like Comcast either...... Bad experiences with cable is what gives me peace of mind when the OTA HD is having problems. At its worst, OTA HD exceeds anything I ever got from the cable companies, and we know they are working to correct the issues. With Adelphia, it was obviously a chore to their rep to talk to you.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
Yeah, they ran the fiber, I waited for that, and when my PG changed not in the least, I told them to take their service and place it where the sun don't shine. Even if they did have great pq, my DirecTV package, with more channels was still $20 a month less than what those thieves were taking from me. Hmmm... I guess it shows I don't like Adelphia much....... Didn't like Comcast either...... Bad experiences with cable is what gives me peace of mind when the OTA HD is having problems. At its worst, OTA HD exceeds anything I ever got from the cable companies, and we know they are working to correct the issues. With Adelphia, it was obviously a chore to their rep to talk to you.

I had similar experiences with Adelphia. They NEVER showed when scheduled or if they did it was hours later than scheduled. I was really surprised when they came to install the HD box. They called two hours earlier than my scheduled appointment and asked if they could come earlier. In total shock, I said yes. Within 10 minutes the first installer came out, and within another 5 minutes their HEAD installer showed up. I asked why two, and was told because it's a new service, they wanted to make sure everything when smoothly. Can you believe it??? Both were great guys and did a great job. I really think Adelphia knows their CS sucked and are trying to change their image. About time!!!!

http://www.adelphia.com/cable_entertainment/channel_line_ups.cfm

I dont notice a large differance in quality between adelphia supplied HD and Direct TV on the one same channel I've checked--Showtime HD, havent used it much, mainly use direct TV and mainly the nature shows on Discovery HD or HDNet, Discovery HD seems to have much better quality for the most part, Showtime is usually of lesser quality than most, except for of course most of ESPN which is just upconverted junk, most of the time. Too bad no CBS on Adelphia for the SuperBowl. We do have the fiber in our neighborhood. The inability to adjust screen size for the most part on the component input cable box is irritating. They do have format settings but they seem to mainly work on SDTV. Also my TVs ability to resize doesnt work with the box. OTOH, when I was using DVI, same thing with the Sat. Now I'm using the DVI from my samsung DVD player. I plan on getting a DVI switch but only when they arent a total RIPOFF.

BTW check out the VOOM deals at the HDTV hardware forum (to my recall)--MO channels are what HD needs!

Hi all,

I live curently in wellington, can I get away with a indoor RAdioshack antena for HD or do I need a external? I think most of the towers are within 6 miles from my place with ABC being the exception 36 miles.


Thanks

Antenna /Rotor Installation

Hi...
Two years ago I had a UHF antenna installed in Lake Worth by a company called Desco Services. I wish to add a rotor but can't seem to find a listing any longer. Does anyone have any recommendations of who can install a rotor in Lake Worth?

Thanks,

je

Welcome!

I'd advise trying the indoor antenna and see how it works. If you have problems you can always return it for something else. Keep in mind that while most of the DTV stations are on UHF channels, WPEC-DT is on VHF channel 13, so a VHF/UHF combo antenna is best for this area. In an indoor antenna, that would mean a "rabbit ears" type for VHF with integral UHF loop or bow-tie element for UHF reception.

Thanks for the advice! Going to radio shack today!

Wingfat, installation of a rotor is a pretty easy task. With simple thumb screws you can attach it to the existing mast. All you need is an extra piece of mast (very short) to which you attach the antenna. It fits into the rotor. The rotor and the antenna should be very close to each other (in other words, the short piece of mast should be VERY short; I doubt the entire length I've used exceeds 12 inches- 3-4 of which fit into the rotor and 3-4 stick out above the antenna connection).

The wire to power the rotor can run down the mast just like the cable. You can run it into the house if you've previously drilled a hole for the cable, or you might have to drill a small hole for the power cable. It is a thin wire (much thinner than RG-6 cable).

The connection tasks are usually a couple of color coded wires attached to color coded terminals at both ends. I found the whole process to be pretty easy. I hope this is helpful.

Hello fellow West Palmians, I just got a antenna put up and here are my signal reports:

5.1 WPTV 5 NBC 100% 186 DEG. 8.4 MILES WPB

6.1 (31.1?) WTVJ 6 NBC 69% 186 DEG. 51.2 MILES MIAMI

12.1 WPEC 12 CBS 77% 185 DEG. 8.5 MILES WPB

12.2 WPEC WEATHER 77% SAME AS ABOVE

25.1 WPBF ABC (NO SIGNAL) 345 DEG.

29.1 WFLX FOX 100% 198 DEG. 9.4 MILES WPB

33.1 WBFS 33 UPN 20-36-63% ? MILES ?

34.1 WTVX 34 UPN 93% 344 DEG. 30.5 MILES FT PIERCE

Any recommendations? should I be getting better? should I try moving it any? I bought this antenna (RCA) from Home Depot.
I just put the antenna up last night and these were the numbers from last night only. Was I not getting a signal from ABC, was that because they weren't broadcasting anything?

Thanks!
Dave

Local stations multicast multishows

By Paul Davidson, USA TODAY

Three hundred TV channels not enough for you? How about a few dozen more, courtesy of the likes of NBC, ABC, CBS and their affiliates?

At the same time WRAL-TV airs Dr. Phil, it shows other programming on its HDTV station.


With high-definition TV sales and broadcasts taking off, a growing number of local TV stations that broadcast in digital are also multicasting — or chopping those digital streams into two, three or four separate channels.

Typically, they can transmit a high-definition channel and one or two lower-resolution standard-definition channels in prime time, or four to six standard-definition channels during the day.

Of the nation's 1,700 broadcast stations, 213 are multicasting, up from 72 in 2001, says Decisionmark, which tracks digital TV. About half are public TV stations.

They churn out such fare as 24-hour local news and weather. There is live coverage of political debates, trials and area sports. And the major networks and their affiliates are plotting bolder offerings, such as local versions of entertainment news shows and a Headline News-style screen for local palates.

To see the channels, viewers generally need a digital set or must subscribe to their cable provider's digital tier. "Affiliates are committed to carrying a fairly high percentage of (network) programming, and that's squeezing out local" shows, says Bob Lee, general manager of multicaster WDBJ-TV, the CBS affiliate in Roanoke, Va. "We've put the choice in viewers' hands."

As cable channels siphon more viewers, broadcasters say multicasting helps them fight back and partly recoup their multimillion-dollar investment in digital TV. But a lobbying war between broadcasters and cable systems threatens to limit rollout. Broadcasters say a federal law that requires systems to carry their main channels also mandates carriage of their multicast offspring.

"We're free, over-the-air television. As long as it's free, cable should carry it," says Jim Goodmon, CEO of Capitol Broadcasting, which multicasts on its two stations in Raleigh, N.C.

The multiple channels, broadcasters say, occupy no more space on high-capacity digital cable systems than single analog channels. But cable companies say the law requiring transmission of a broadcaster's "primary video" refers only to the main channel. Besides, they argue, why should they carry what they call tepid offerings when a gaggle of cable channels are clamoring for space on their dials?

"It violates the First Amendment for the government to make the choice of what's going to be on cable," says Dan Brenner, counsel for the National Cable & Telecommunications Association. Air great channels, and systems will voluntarily carry them, he says.

Broadcasters retort that cable providers fear competition to cable channels, which supply their ad revenue; many are also partly owned by the cable giants. In a filing with the Federal Communications Commission, David Barrett, chief of Hearst-Argyle Television, says some cable systems have told his firm "they will not carry multicast programming ... competitive with cable programs they offer." He was not available for comment.

"This is a huge threat to The Weather Channel," says Forrester Research media analyst Josh Bernoff, noting multicasts offer more frequent local weather updates. Many cable systems also offer all-news channels that face fresh competition from multicasts.

But with 68% of U.S. homes served by cable, many broadcasters say they will scrap or scale back their multicasting plans if the FCC doesn't mandate cable carriage.

The FCC has been deadlocked on the issue, but the tide might be turning. A majority of the five commissioners recently voiced support for a "must-carry" rule, though some say that hinges on a separate proposal to require some public-affairs and children's shows on the multicast channels.

A must-carry rule likely would not take effect for at least three years or when 85% of homes can get digital signals. But it would provide leverage in talks with cable systems today.

Meanwhile, stations are forging ahead. In Raleigh, Capitol's CBS affiliate, WRAL, is broadcasting a 24-hour news channel in addition to its high-definition channel. Besides recycling WRAL newscasts, the channel brims with local coverage, televising the murder trial of a former city councilman last year while CBS aired its daytime schedule. During the NCAA basketball tournament, it showed four games the same night on four channels.

When CBS switched to golf the day of the space shuttle Columbia disaster last year, WRAL stuck with coverage on one ancillary channel and showed ACC basketball on another.

"We're losing money," Capitol's Goodmon says, noting the company invested $1 million in multicasting, and only sports shows have ads. "But I'm building a local news brand, and there's no doubt" revenue will outpace costs. The channels are on area Time Warner and Cox cable systems, but not on Adelphia and Charter.

Like WRAL, Roanoke's WDBJ repackages its weather and news, so costs are low. "It's leveraging assets," Lee says. He expects multicasts to turn a profit next year.

Other multicasting programs and plans:

•Many public TV stations are providing adult and children's education, foreign-language programming and gavel-to-gavel coverage of state legislatures.

•NBC and its affiliates are planning a local weather/news service. It's also considering programs such as local versions of — or behind-the-scenes footage from —Access Hollywood and profiles of local reality show contestants.

"We see ourselves taking some of our brands and localizing them," says Brandon Burgess, head of NBC business development.

•ABC is multicasting news/public affairs and weather channels at its KFSN station in Fresno, Calif. It plans to replicate the model at the nine other stations it owns.

•WKMG, CBS affiliate in Orlando, plans to broadcast a Web-style screen with local news, weather maps, headlines and rotating live traffic views.

Some broadcasters say multicasting lets them better compete for advertisers by offering different channels to reach different audiences, just as cable systems do. NBC affiliates want to target local news to a town in a coverage area and sell more affordable ads to local businesses. "We get to play at that party," says Roger Ogden, head of the NBC affiliate board.

Others are skeptical. Sinclair Broadcast Group, which owns 62 stations, has no plans to multicast. "I'm not holding my breath that anyone's going to get rich putting weather up," company President David Smith says.



Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2004-01-28-multicast_x.htm

Motorman,

What is your location, and what kind of antenna are you using? Is it a VHF/UHF combo or UHF-only?

Anyone in the area getting the D* CBS national DTV feed?

HobeSoundDarryl,

I do not think we will be able to get the D* CBS-HD feed, because WPEC is not a CBS O&O station. Perhaps David can clarify this.

WPEC TV12, CBS
the digital signal over the air dropouts continue...when will this ever be fixed?

Originally posted by av8torfl
WPEC TV12, CBS
the digital signal over the air dropouts continue...when will this ever be fixed?
They are fine here in Royal Palm Beach. No problems and a better picture than DirecTV HD (not sound though).

Perfect signal out here as well. It is something with your setup.

Kudos to Dave and his colleagues at WPEC-DT! The Superbowl HD broadcast looked and sounded great. Other than a few audio dropouts and 1 short session of "blinking" in-and-out video (late in the 4th Qtr), the HD broadcast was exceptional! The HD commercials and movie previews were a fun treat too...thanks CBS! Great job, WPEC-DT and CBS...way to stay on top of the HD world when you need to. :D

Originally posted by bsgoren
Kudos to Dave and his colleagues at WPEC-DT! The Superbowl HD broadcast looked and sounded great. Other than a few audio dropouts and 1 short session of "blinking" in-and-out video (late in the 4th Qtr), the HD broadcast was exceptional! The HD commercials and movie previews were a fun treat too...thanks CBS! Great job, WPEC-DT and CBS...way to stay on top of the HD world when you need to. :D

I concu! I thought maybe my plasma was giving out when I saw my screen go black! Scary moment. Other than that, a perfect image. The sound, for the first time watching HD, I thought it was excellent.

Got it all on my trusty SS antenna sitting atop my subwoofer. Gotta love it!

Great to hear channel 12 got it right. I had numerous people over, and I was afraid to even try them, so I tuned channel 4 in Miami and stayed there. Anyone guessing Janet's halftime "show" was no accident ?

I too was very pleased with the CBS technical production of the Super Bowl, and WPECDT's feed was overall very good. I hope this is an indication the DTV transmission problems have been corrected. It also didn't hurt that this was perhaps one of the most competitive games. The only thing I didn't care for was the half time show.

My setup is fine and all other local channels are recieved consistently with no problems. I think, as I am on the fringe, that small power fluctutuations occurring at the transmitter are responsible for my momematry dropouts
of signal.

Last night, my system was unwatchable (In Palm City)... Can not understand it as Lwhite (also of Palm City) was great.... Mabe I should have stuck with it.

Has anyone in West Palm Beach contacted D* regarding the CBS HD new channel (Channel 80 and 81) and been told a waiver would have to be done and it takes 30 to 60 days ??? Does anyone know if we will get it??

Motorman, What is your location, and what kind of antenna are you using? Is it a VHF/UHF combo or UHF-only?

I'm in Royal Palm and got a RCA antenna from Home Depot. It's got like 35 elements I think 110" and both UHF and VHF. Also I have it bolted to the side of my roof and barely sticks up higher the the roof top. The Superbowl, looked great!

For Bob Wagner

Are you referring to 12.1 or all digital channels? Was this problem unique to Super Sunday?

Donny,

I am down the street from you without issue and you are far from on the fringe for recieving CBS. If your still using a UHF only antenna that may be partially the problme but other than that as you can see noone else seemed to have any problems.

Only 12.1........ too many dropouts and some pixelazation. Switched to cable. Also noticed fuzzy (light fog type) picture on some camera shots.

Anyway, I am not impressed with 12.1 eventhough others recieved it fine. Dont know what the problems is.

WPEC-DT HD shows were great all evening from here, but admittedly, I am very close to their tower (very strong signal using the SS and Sony HD-200 receiver). On the other hand, I flipped to 'Gladiator' playing on WPBF-DT (25.1) this evening and was very annoyed with the very low audio issue (as if it's missing the center channel audio although I didn't confirm that); just noticed that I had to turn the volume way up while all the other DT channels were normal and had to turn it down again when switching to the other channels. The video was fine on WPBF-DT, but someone must have been monkeying with the audio :(

The Super Sunday telecast had the best audio and video of any football telecast I've seen on this station. I can recall only one brief drop-out for the entire game. I expect this was not an accident. Thank you WPEC.

However, there was still noticeable background pixelization on some shots when the camera angle rapidly moved. This seems to show up primarily on replays. I have never seen this phenomenon on ABC or ESPN HDTV football telecasts. It also does not occur on FOX 480p telecasts.

Now that WPEC has corrected their most obvious HDTV problems, it is time to work on the finer points. After Sunday's tasteless halftime performance, perhaps CBS will not be given the privilege of carrying the Super Bowl again. If they do, it would be nice to have all of the bugs worked out.

WPEC-DT did a great job with the Super-Bowl. I was impressed by the fact that they broadcast the entire event flawlessly. The few anomalies that did show up were in the CBS HD feed and were not WPEC's fault.

I liked the way they computerized the full shot video of each player when they introduced them after the kick-off. Someone put a lot of work into that and it was cool to see each players gestures while they introduced themselves. I also like the "3-D Rotation" that they were doing - you know, like in the Matrix. It was a bit jerky and low-rez but I'm sure they will perfect it over time.

I purposely did not watch the half-time show because I have zero interest in the "artists" that were to perform in it. I did watch the pre-game show and it was pretty good. It's really quite a contradiction for them to present such a family oriented pre-game show and then to have porn for the half-time show. I don't know why people are shocked about it though - it's MTV!

Originally posted by ElectricPickle

I purposely did not watch the half-time show because I have zero interest in the "artists" that were to perform in it. I did watch the pre-game show and it was pretty good. It's really quite a contradiction for them to present such a family oriented pre-game show and then to have porn for the half-time show. I don't know why people are shocked about it though - it's MTV! [/B]

Although I agree that Janet's publicity "stunt" (afterall, she hasn't been on the radar in a long time and she does have a new cd coming out) was not appropriate for the family-oriented Superbowl Halftime show, it's hardly "porn." My wife and I agreed that they probably should have had different performers for this kind of show as many people do not like the music and performances of Kid Rock and some of the other artists chosen for the show. We'll see if the that will be MTV's last Superbowl Halftime show and if the FCC will force MTV to stick to their own show provocations.

But, now that I got my $0.02 in, let's stick to what this forum is about :)...our local digital/HD OTA broadcast info and reception - which was very good for the Superbowl and I reiterate my kudos to WPEC-DT and CBS...keep it up!

I concur with all about the quality of 12-1. It did look great. However, I also checked 4-1 several times throughout the evening and, to my eyes, I thought 4-1s picture looked a little better. Could the weather radar (12-2) subchannel bandwith usage cause this? And if so, (Dave) how about shutting that down during the biggest events like this and March Madness, etc.?

After comparing back & forth several times, I settled on 4-1 for much of the game. Did anyone else notice a visible quality difference? I do think 12-1 looked great too, but "best" is best.

For what its worth, I also took one peek at Adelphia's version of 12 and it reminded me once again why we invested in HD equipment. Yechhh!

I agree that 4-1's picture looks slightly better than 12-1's picture. I didn't think this was supposed to happen. Actually, I get slightly more signal from 12-1 than I do from 4-1. I generally watch 4-1 unless they are showing basketball instead of network programming. Then, I watch 12-1. It's great having two CBS's to choose from.

Tonyv

Originally posted by tonyv
I agree that 4-1's picture looks slightly better than 12-1's picture. I didn't think this was supposed to happen. Actually, I get slightly more signal from 12-1 than I do from 4-1. I generally watch 4-1 unless they are showing basketball instead of network programming. Then, I watch 12-1. It's great having two CBS's to choose from.

Tonyv

Tonyv - I agree with you. I generally will take 4-1 for the same reasons (a little better PQ). Maybe HobeSoundDarry hit on something with the sub-channel weather that 12-1 is broadcasting. Anyway, that's 3 of us that would select Miami 4-1 so there must be something to their PQ.

HobeSoundDarry - You said something about trying Adelphia's 12-1. When did Adelphia start with 12-1? I've been gone for a week and didn't realize they were broadcasting the CBS HD channel 12-1. I thought they only had 5-1 NBC and 16-1 ABC for local channels.

Subchannels have a lot to do with PQ since they take up bandwidth. The more bandwidth a HD broadcast has, the better it will look (of course, this is assuming a pristine source). Just look at what Sunday NFL games looked like on the DirecTV feed and the local station feeds to compare what happens when you put a HD signal on a limited bandwidth (even with the subchannels, our local channels put the DirecTV signal to shame).

Kenni_o, that Adelphia reference I made was to channel 12 SD not HD. I don't believe 12-1 HD on Adelphia is available yet.

All, so anyone else see what apparently 4 of us see (4-1 HD looks a bit better than 12-1 HD)? The issue for me is that I am wayyyy up north, and Miami stations are a bit of a stretch. 4-1 is a "most of the time" option, but not an ALL of the time option. I for one would really love to see 12-1 maximized, if there is anything to this 12-2 hypothesis.

I agree that 4-1 is better

I disagree that the halftime show was "porn". Porn is what you find on DirecTV somewhere in the channel 600 range.......

Originally posted by JeffBowser
I agree that 4-1 is better

I disagree that the halftime show was "porn". Porn is what you find on DirecTV somewhere in the channel 600 range.......

Yeah, those sports channels do get out of hand sometimes..:D

Can you guys describe the difference between 12-1 and 4-1 during the Super Bowl? I was just watching us so I don't know how the two stations differed.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Can you guys describe the difference between 12-1 and 4-1 during the Super Bowl? I was just watching us so I don't know how the two stations differed.

David - IMO your picture had a little bit softer look than 4-1. The 4-1 PQ seemed to jump out at you, at least on my GWIII. If you read all the comparisons, everyone states the 4-1 was just a little bit better. I know I didn't feel there was anything wrong with your picture, just felt 4-1 was crisper. Thanks for asking!

Did you notice more motion artifacts on us than on WFOR?

I'm on the Boynton/Delray border and get a good signal from both 12-1 and 4-1. On both HD and SD 4-1 is far sharper than 12-1. Don't I recall that while 4-1 transmits a pure digital signal, 12-1 has an analogue to digital conversion somewhere in the line with network transmissions? Then of course there is 12-1's damned Dolby two channel stereo problem.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Can you guys describe the difference between 12-1 and 4-1 during the Super Bowl? I was just watching us so I don't know how the two stations differed.

Dave, I agree with the otheer guys. 4-1 just jumps right out at you whereas 12-1 just looks somewhat softer. Your regular 4:3 digital pictures also look softer than most other stations. Hope this helps.

Tonyv

Thanks for the feedback.

Alan, our damned 2-channel stereo problem has been fixed. ;)

Our upconverted programming does indeed look softer than WFOR because our SD plant is still analog composite to begin with while WFOR is digital component. I'm surprized to learn that you guys think WFOR looks sharper in HD, though. I'll look into this.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Thanks for the feedback.

Alan, our damned 2-channel stereo problem has been fixed. ;)

Our upconverted programming does indeed look softer than WFOR because our SD plant is still analog composite to begin with while WFOR is digital component. I'm surprized to learn that you guys think WFOR looks sharper in HD, though. I'll look into this.

David - Everyone has questioned if your PQ could be affected by your use of a sub-channel which WFOR 4-1 doesn't use. Could this explain why the HD signal is not as sharp as 4-1?

Dave, thanks for looking into this issue. It's pretty easy to see by flipping back and forth during any HD broadcast- especially when the HD is shot native (not a film to HD conversion). I think the differences show up most obviously during live sporting broadcasts.

Anyone's receiver able to show the bandwith of a 4-1 HD broadcast vs. a 12-1 HD broadcast. I am loosely aware that 19.x Mbps is the HD max standard. 12-2 would slice into the 6Mhz spectrum allotment to some degree. If someone has the equipment to measure the bitstream from each station during HD broadcasts, we might be able to show Dave the mathematics for what may be causing us to see the 4-1 HD picture as slightly superior.

I actually like having the live doppler option, but it only really matters to me in a bigger than average storm or when one is approaching the area. I could care less about it when the weather is "normal" (or even sunshowers, etc.). If this would prove out (broadcasting 12-2 is the culprit), I for one would rather see 12-2 go away (at least during any HD broadcasts) to give maximum bandwith to 12-1. I'd welcome it becoming available at the lowest possible bandwith during a bigger storm or in an approaching (bigger than average) storm. If this occurred, when 12-2 popped onto the guide, it would be like a weather alert by itself.

And while we're making 12-2 wishes, assuming it survives the above, how about making the radar window a bit smaller than full screen, and using the space that is created for all that other stuff? Then, you could keep the rader on screen non-stop (which I percieve as the main benefit of even having the channel), and still get the other stuff in as well (on that same screen). Since you make your money with advertising, I suggest using some of that saved space for ads (much like banner ads on websites). Inexpensive textual ads could point to web pages with video/audio or other more expansive advertising formats. The movie theaters have proven that there is a market for simple, mostly text-based slide (no video or audio) advertising. Your advertising sales team could attempt to bite into some of that business.

I for one would rather see 12-2 go away (at least during any HD broadcasts) to give maximum bandwidth to 12-1.
I agree. Do what ever you want the "multi-cast" channels, even advertising, but switch to full bandwidth during prime-time and live events.

Remember that WPTV-DT 5-1 apparently is still in the planning stage of what to do with their multi-cast channels. Perhaps we can influence them too.

Very interesting. I'll let your thoughts on the subchannel here speak for themselves. Engineering tells me that we are passing code from CBS-HD completely unaltered, including metadata, on the air (of course, we do have do bring it down from the 45 MB/sec data rate of the CBS-HD distribution system to something that will fit OTA) and that the subchannel occupies next to nothing as far as payload (that's why it looks so bad). Nonetheless, I've got to compare our HD video vs. WFOR on some live HD sports to see what's going on.

So, no one besides me saw artifacts on fast motion during the Super Bowl on WPEC-DT?

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
I agree. Do what ever you want the "multi-cast" channels, even advertising, but switch to full bandwidth during prime-time and live events.

Remember that WPTV-DT 5-1 apparently is still in the planning stage of what to do with their multi-cast channels. Perhaps we can influence them too.

I couldn't agree more. Fill it with ads, like the TV guide channel on cable does. However, shut it down during any HD broadcasts.

Here is a snip of an article from USA Today that I posted earlier (page 90 of this thread).
-------
Meanwhile, stations are forging ahead. In Raleigh, Capitol's CBS affiliate, WRAL, is broadcasting a 24-hour news channel in addition to its high-definition channel. Besides recycling WRAL newscasts, the channel brims with local coverage, televising the murder trial of a former city councilman last year while CBS aired its daytime schedule. During the NCAA basketball tournament, it showed four games the same night on four channels.

When CBS switched to golf the day of the space shuttle Columbia disaster last year, WRAL stuck with coverage on one ancillary channel and showed ACC basketball on another.

"We're losing money," Capitol's Goodmon says, noting the company invested $1 million in multicasting, and only sports shows have ads. "But I'm building a local news brand, and there's no doubt" revenue will outpace costs. The channels are on area Time Warner and Cox cable systems, but not on Adelphia and Charter.

Like WRAL, Roanoke's WDBJ repackages its weather and news, so costs are low. "It's leveraging assets," Lee says. He expects multicasts to turn a profit next year.

Other multicasting programs and plans:

•Many public TV stations are providing adult and children's education, foreign-language programming and gavel-to-gavel coverage of state legislatures.

•NBC and its affiliates are planning a local weather/news service. It's also considering programs such as local versions of — or behind-the-scenes footage from —Access Hollywood and profiles of local reality show contestants.

"We see ourselves taking some of our brands and localizing them," says Brandon Burgess, head of NBC business development.

•ABC is multicasting news/public affairs and weather channels at its KFSN station in Fresno, Calif. It plans to replicate the model at the nine other stations it owns.

•WKMG, CBS affiliate in Orlando, plans to broadcast a Web-style screen with local news, weather maps, headlines and rotating live traffic views.

Some broadcasters say multicasting lets them better compete for advertisers by offering different channels to reach different audiences, just as cable systems do. NBC affiliates want to target local news to a town in a coverage area and sell more affordable ads to local businesses. "We get to play at that party," says Roger Ogden, head of the NBC affiliate board.

Others are skeptical. Sinclair Broadcast Group, which owns 62 stations, has no plans to multicast. "I'm not holding my breath that anyone's going to get rich putting weather up," company President David Smith says.



Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/media...multicast_x.htm

Dave - I noticed the artifacts. They have driven me nuts for ages - I just assumed it was a fact of MPEG compression and we will have to live with it until some genius finds a better compression method, or bandwidth becomes unlimited.

Dave, I notice fast motion artifacts on all of your football telecasts.

Originally posted by David McRoy
So, no one besides me saw artifacts on fast motion during the Super Bowl on WPEC-DT? Yes, I noticed the artifacts on fast motion as well. The HD games I have watched on WPEC-DT this year all had them. It is noticeable on non-sports HD programming as well sometimes with fast motion - but this is rare since most do not have as much motion as sports. WPBF-DT did not seem to have this problem with MNF.

Originally posted by bsgoren
On the other hand, I flipped to 'Gladiator' playing on WPBF-DT (25.1) this evening and was very annoyed with the very low audio issue (as if it's missing the center channel audio although I didn't confirm that); just noticed that I had to turn the volume way up while all the other DT channels were normal and had to turn it down again when switching to the other channels. The video was fine on WPBF-DT, but someone must have been monkeying with the audio :( This was happening a couple weeks ago on WPBF-DT. During Alias the center channel was completely gone. All I had was music and effects, no dialog. I had to change to the D* feed to watch the show. I think it is time for us to start calling to WPBF to let then know.

I am surprised no one has mentioned that there was a slight audio synch issue during the super bowl. It was not as bad as I have seen it, but it was perhaps 1/3 of a second. I thought it was my receiver at first, but channel 4-1 from Miami was coming in and the audio was right on time.

I didn't notice because I was watching 4-1 only. I was too gun shy of 12-1 to risk pissing off a house-full of football fans.

I sure wish Dave McKinley can explain why WPTV-DT did not show 'The Apprentice' and 'ER' in HD last night when all the guides specifically say they're both in HD. The Apprentice has never been in 1080i HD on WPTV-DT and the HD broadcasts of ER have been sporatric lately. Although WPTV-DT solved their audio sync problem some time ago, we still need NBC's advertised "HD" broadcasts to actually be shown in HD by WPTV-DT. I don't know if it's a matter of someone being responsible for "flipping the switch" or not, but if it is, that person should not have this responsibility. :mad: Thank you.

No reality shows are in HD. e.r. wasn't in HD because of last minute editing due to nudity concerns.

I sure wish they'd do Survivor in HD.......

Anyone have audio issues with WPBF or is it just me.. Seems very low in volume

Originally posted by ARFF
Anyone have audio issues with WPBF or is it just me.. Seems very low in volume

Yes, it's been that way for about a week or so...and it's very annoying It's as if their center channel audio is missing. They're probably working on it, but if anyone has an e-mail address for the WPBF-DT contact, then please let all of know so we can send them an e-mail to light a fire under their butts. Thanks.

Originally posted by bsgoren
Yes, it's been that way for about a week or so...and it's very annoying It's as if their center channel audio is missing. They're probably working on it, but if anyone has an e-mail address for the WPBF-DT contact, then please let all of know so we can send them an e-mail to light a fire under their butts. Thanks.

Please light some fires because this sound level problem really needs to be addressed. I can't believe their engineering staff isn't monitoring their output. This is really too bad because their PQ on Lion King on Saturday was great but sound just plain sucked.

Speaking of PQ, I watched the grammy's on 4-1 on Sunday and I must say CBS is running away from the other networks in their HD productions. The PQ was spectacular to say the least and their 5.1 sound was great. They put the crowd in the back channels so it made you feel like you were in the audience.

Originally posted by Kenni_o
Speaking of PQ, I watched the Grammy's on 4-1 on Sunday and I must say CBS is running away from the other networks in their HD productions. The PQ was spectacular to say the least and their 5.1 sound was great. They put the crowd in the back channels so it made you feel like you were in the audience.

I agree CBS appears to be in the lead with HD overall, and the PQ of the Grammy presentation was very good. But I thought the 5.1 sound was spotty at best. At times the different microphone pickup mixes were not in sync (e.g., background singers vs. lead singer at times). One performer had to have her mike replaced and begin again, then had to remove her ear plugs because they apparently were out of sync as well. The sound levels and sync did improve as the program progressed. But I'm still amazed that a program focused on music lacked greater quality production. Although I'm sure the technical problems with 5.1 are much greater, it's not as though this technology just started.

Frequent pixelization on WPECDT tonight even though my DTV signal indicates 100.