Originally posted by lwhitefl
Frequent pixelization on WPECDT tonight even though my DTV signal indicates 100.

Yeah, [Yawn] I noticed it too. [Yawn]
:eek:

Len:

I'm not sure you can always count on the signal meters on these boxes to be accurate. Also, it is my understanding that even with a weak signal, you either get the info or you don't. So it was probably a network issue, and not your box. Spomeone correct me please if I'm wrong.

Also, I noticed during the Grammys last night that when the green dudes from OutKast were singing their #1 song, there was terrible artifiact tiling going on. You could see the entire emage became a matrix of giant MPEG compression squares, especially during the flashing and strobes. I don't know if that's a limitation of the HDTV stream, or if there was simply too much info changing and it choked the data stream or what.

Did anyone else see this too? The rest of the show seemed to look pretty perfect to me, especially during the end of Beyonce's song where she stepped into the giant painting. Beautiful color there!

Let me know if you guys saw the same thing during Outkast.

Jeff

Jeff - I seriously doubt the pixelization problem is attributable to my Hughes E86. I also doubt this is a CBS network issue because other posters to this forum that can receive the CBS Miami affiliate, don't report these types of continuing problems with that station. Dave McRoy has theorized the cause may be linked to WPECDT being one of the few VHF DT channels. Whatever the cause, this type of transmission has been going on intermittently far too long. During the Super Bowl and Grammys, the PQ was very good, but during the NFL Championship game, tonight, and all too frequently, the PQ is terrible on WPECDT.

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
Yeah, [Yawn] I noticed it too. [Yawn]
:eek:

Hey, Dave McRoy...what happened to tonight's HD broadcasts -- WPEC-DT's HD broadcasts were all just horrible tonight. Yes, like everyone else I saw frequent pixelization, audio dropouts, and even many frozen blank (black) screens during commercial breaks. What happened?

BTW, Jeff - Len is right...it's not the receiver. I have a Sony HD-200 and a SS antenna (living very close to the antennas) which are quite accurate, meaning if my signal is 'normal' to 'good' as shown by the Sony HD-200 antenna signal meter, then it's locked, and if I get pixelization, audio sync issues, or any other issues, it's caused by either the local DT station's broadcast or the network feed (but around here, more often than not, it's a local DT station problem) :mad:

On another note, I sent an e-mail to WPBF 'General Comments' regarding WPBF-DT's horrible "missing center channel audio" problem that's been plaging their HD (and digital SD) broadcasts for more than 1 week; naturally, I did not receive a reply, and the problem continues. HELLO, WPBF-DT...anyone out there?

I watched the Grammys on both WFOR-DT and WPEC-DT and saw pixelation on scenes with strobe lights...and so did everybody else in the nation.

I wasn't aware that there was a reception problem night as I wasn't watching. Probably the same old problems: atmospheric noise and/or tropospheric ducting. Looks like things will really get bad Thursday night:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html

Originally posted by David McRoy
I watched the Grammys on both WFOR-DT and WPEC-DT and saw pixelation on scenes with strobe lights...and so did everybody else in the nation.

I wasn't aware that there was a reception problem night as I wasn't watching. Probably the same old problems: atmospheric noise and/or tropospheric ducting. Looks like things will really get bad Thursday night:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html

While certainly not perfect, the PQ on the Grammys was very good. Unlike last nights WPECDT broadcasts and other examples such as the NFL Championship game where the picture was unwatchable.

Am we to conclude the atmospheric conditions you describe doom reliable OTA HD broadcasts. You seem to be saying we'll never have a reliable OTA HD transmission due to these problems. That would seem to indicate a very negative HD sales forecast once potential buyers realize they're not going to be able to get reliable HD signals.

I live in Palm City and recently upgraded my HD receivers to the Samsung T160 and the T360. I have a large VHF/UHF antenna mounted on top of a two story building. I was able to pull in Miami DT stations which I thought would be impossible, I think the newer receivers have a lot to do with it. The problem that I'm having though is that at one moment I'm receiving them at a high signal level and then in the next moment they drop off all together. Do you think there may be a grounding problem of some sort? Also there is a distribution/amp box that feed all the sets in the house, maybe it's blinking in and out? I never seem to loose the WPB stations though.

This forum has nearly turned into an endless series of complaints. David McRoy - is it possible to directly address the two prior bleak assessments above in such a way that we can move on, if the problem is, in fact, inherent to the frequency you broadcast on ? I do not wish to put words in your mouth, but I am sure you are as tired of the constant boo-hooing as I am, but much too polite to say so. On the other hand, I too, would like to know what we might expect in the future - will it be same as all consumer grade analog OTA signals, with periodic bouts of snow (or the digital equivalent), that seems inherent to all broadcast signals, or will some miracle of technology intervene someday soon ?

Well it certainly appears Mr. JeffBowser isn't concerned about politeness. I asked a legitimate question considering WPECDT is aggressively advertising "high quality high definition television". I don't think most consumers are going to be interested in buying expensive equipment only to discover they can't get a reliable OTA HD picture. Perhaps when the cable and satellite companies offer 'all' the local HD stations, the reliability will improve. But for those of us that would truly like to see HD succeed, I consider the current state of local HD broadcasts to be a serious hindrance.

In reference to what Carlb7 was sying above, I have seen the same issue with my Samsung SIR-T151 receiver, here in Ft. Lauderdale. The signal bars will be at about 9 bars, and the picture goes blacnk, and then the signal bars drop to 0, then they come back up again.

There is no logical explanation, it happens on a clear day, no cars, or trucks or planes lying overhead, nothing to change the path of the signal to my antenna in the attick.

I doubt there is any kind of parasitic capcitance building up on my line or any other electromagentic failure modes.

The only thing I can think of is that either it is an issue with Samsung's software, or an issue with the tower. I should point out that many people have issues with the softwar ein all types of HDTV Set Top Boxes (STBs).

My friend's Hughe's was causing channels to cut out due to software issues.

Originally posted by David McRoy
I watched the Grammys on both WFOR-DT and WPEC-DT and saw pixelation on scenes with strobe lights...and so did everybody else in the nation.

I wasn't aware that there was a reception problem night as I wasn't watching. Probably the same old problems: atmospheric noise and/or tropospheric ducting. Looks like things will really get bad Thursday night:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html

Dave,

If atmosphereic noise and tropospheric ducting is the cause of such pixelization and other similar problems with WPEC-DT, wouldn't we all see the similar pixelizations and other issues with other WPB DT channels like WPTV-DT, WPBF-DT, and WFLX-DT at the same time (since it should theoretically affect all OTA DT broadcasts)?

Because, this was not the case with last night's DT broadcasts on the other WPB channels; while the other stations have other current outstanding issues (apparently due to equipment or personnel), only WPEC-DT had this type of problem last night which you've described to be caused by atmospheric noise or tropospheric ducting (and again, I get in all the DT channels at strong signals). I will watch Thursday night and see if WPEC-DT has pixelization like this past Monday night, and note if any other WPB DT broadcasts are experienceing the same.

No, politeness is not one of my strong suites, I tend to call it like I see it. We can all moan with righteous indignation until we are blue in the face, the fact is, none of us here are broadcast technology experts. I find it funny that everytime the closest thing we have to one up here tells us what the problem likely is, there are a half dozen folks immediately up here yammering about how <insert explanation> cannot POSSIBLY be what the real problem is. Do we think that Dave from WPEC gets his jollies out of yanking our chains with nonsense, or something ?
Mr. Len - HD is here to stay, and folks are going to buy the technology regardless of WPEC's problem, and, amazingly, regardless of your's, mine, and anyone elses opinion.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
No, politeness is not one of my strong suites, I tend to call it like I see it. We can all moan with righteous indignation until we are blue in the face, the fact is, none of us here are broadcast technology experts. I find it funny that everytime the closest thing we have to one up here tells us what the problem likely is, there are a half dozen folks immediately up here yammering about how <insert explanation> cannot POSSIBLY be what the real problem is. Do we think that Dave from WPEC gets his jollies out of yanking our chains with nonsense, or something ?
Mr. Len - HD is here to stay, and folks are going to buy the technology regardless of WPEC's problem, and, amazingly, regardless of your's, mine, and anyone elses opinion.

Jeff,

Just to clarify my point above...I was not saying that Dave McRoy was making up his explanation; I respect Dave and his expertise, and he has been one of our best assets we can all turn to on this thread when we have questions or would like to discuss the issues that plague our local OTA DT broadcasts. However, my point was just that logic would dictate that if this atmospheric noise and/or tropospheric ducting was indeed the cause of WPEC-DT's pixelization problems (and I do not doubt that these phenomena play a role in our OTA DT reception), then why don't we see it on the other DT broadcasts at the same time. Shouldn't it affect ALL DT broadcasts, not just 1 at a time or does it affect just 1 frequency at a time? As I am the first to admit I am no expert in this area, it's great that we have a source like Dave and a few others to turn to when we have questions. So, please do not criticize others for questioning "the experts" or posting opinions. In addition, I agree that HD is here to stay, and therefore we have the right to ensure that our local OTA DT stations eventually provide decent, stable, high quality HD broadcasts for all of us to enjoy. This is what this forum thread is all about! :)

Well said bsgoren. My pet peeve, however, is with the endless belaboring of the same points over and over again, not with useful questions or keen insights.

It is my understanding, and Dave has said this before, that a given broadcast frequency can be more or less susceptible to interference. Further, he pointed out that of the channels we discuss here, only they are on UHF (or vice-versa), hence greater issues. Now this very thing comes up again - have the laws of physics changed in the last 3 weeks, I have to wonder....

Originally posted by JeffBowser
No, politeness is not one of my strong suites, I tend to call it like I see it. We can all moan with righteous indignation until we are blue in the face, the fact is, none of us here are broadcast technology experts. I find it funny that everytime the closest thing we have to one up here tells us what the problem likely is, there are a half dozen folks immediately up here yammering about how <insert explanation> cannot POSSIBLY be what the real problem is. Do we think that Dave from WPEC gets his jollies out of yanking our chains with nonsense, or something ?
Mr. Len - HD is here to stay, and folks are going to buy the technology regardless of WPEC's problem, and, amazingly, regardless of your's, mine, and anyone elses opinion.

While it's true I'm not a broadcast technical expert, I am a consumer! And while you seem to think it's not useful to continue complaining about the same problems, I would respectfully disagree. Without constructive criticism, the WPB broadcasters might have reason to believe what they're providing is acceptable - especially given the currently small HD community. And I don't accept that HD is here to stay under any circumstances. The American car manufacturers are learning that the hard way. Toyota just took over the number two total sales spot, and GM and Ford's book value today are less than what they owe their pensioners. When are Americans going to learn that it's not all about production and money, but rather the quality of the product. I hope this country doesn't learn that lesson too late.

If it is atmosheric how do you explain the high signal strength readings during the pixelation,drop-outs, and screen freezes.

Did everybody see the same screen freeze during "CSI-Miami" and the "Amber Alert" broadcast?

Originally posted by TOM H.
If it is atmosheric how do you explain the high signal strength readings during the pixelation,drop-outs, and screen freezes.

Did everybody see the same screen freeze during "CSI-Miami" and the "Amber Alert" broadcast?

OH YES we did! As I mentioned in my previous posts. WPEC-DT's Monday night HD programming broadcasts were full of these pixelizations and screen freezes with very high signal readings for me, and I saw none of this on the other DT stations. Yes, the Amber Alert screen freeze was not caused by "atmospheric noise" or "troposheric ducting," as it would have been too much of a coincidence that lasted for as long as the Amber Alert.

Has anybody else noticed that WPTV-DT starts off Law & Order in HD and then goes to SD for the majority of the rest of the broadcast? Sometimes it goes back to HD, sometimes it doesn't. Happens often on all of the L&O episodes.

I noticed the disruption during the Amber Alert, but as I recall, and this is the same when they do the silly interruption to display the lottery numbers, the picture reverted to SD for the duration.......

I had posted the last time this happened, a few weeks back, that VHF channels are quite susceptable to interference due to atmospheric and man-made noise as well as interference from distance on-channel and adjacent-channel signals when tropospheric ducting occurs. I guess it bears repeating.

I receive a strong signal from every DTV station in West Palm Beach and Miami, and when I get heavy pixelation on WPEC-DT I get the same thing on WSVN-DT and WPLG-DT. These three stations are the only VHF DTV allocations in the two markets. I never see the problem on any of the UHF DTV channels. Coincidence? You decide.

Len - this is where I disagree. HD is here to stay, mandated by law if nothing else. Additionally, I have a relative working at FAU, he is designing the next generation quad hi-def camera - that is 4x hi-def. I can't tell you how many millions of dollars is being poured into this project. There is research and continued developement going on we don't even hear about. All these trivial disruptions we keep hammering Dave about will be history soon enough.

Originally posted by David McRoy
I had posted the last time this happened, a few weeks back, that VHF channels are quite susceptable to interference due to atmospheric and man-made noise as well as interference from distance on-channel and adjacent-channel signals when tropospheric ducting occurs. I guess it bears repeating.

I receive a strong signal from every DTV station in West Palm Beach and Miami, and when I get heavy pixelation on WPEC-DT I get the same thing on WSVN-DT and WPLG-DT. These three stations are the only VHF DTV allocations in the two markets. I never see the problem on any of the UHF DTV channels. Coincidence? You decide.

Ok, thanks Dave. So here's a question which I'm sure has a simple answer...knowing that the VHF spectrum has it's issues (and most of the other stations broadcast DT on the UHF spectrum), why did WPEC-DT (and these other mentioned S. FL stations) decide on broadcasting DT on VHF frequency? I mean we all know that WPTV-DT is Channel 5 but they broadcast its DT on 55.1 which remaps to 5.1, so why didn't WPEC-DT choose a similar UHF frequency to remap to 12.1 (and 12.2) instead of 13.1 (and 13.2) in VHF? Couldn't WPEC-DT have reserved a different set of UHF frequencies from the FCC? Thank you.

Hey guys, I have a question about Channel 2-1. I noticed duering the day if I tune to Channel 2-1, there is nothing on it, but my Samsuck receiver does indicate "Digital Sound" on screen, indicating that maybe there is a signal there. Sure enough, my meter is at 50%, so I know there is a signal there.

Is this channel only showing programs at night? It seems to show stuff at night, and sit idle during the day with a black screen. Please let me know if you guys see the same thing. Also, where can I lookup more info about what channels 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, and 2-5 are? smae with 67-1, 67-2, 67-3, etc.

Originally posted by David McRoy
I had posted the last time this happened, a few weeks back, that VHF channels are quite susceptable to interference due to atmospheric and man-made noise as well as interference from distance on-channel and adjacent-channel signals when tropospheric ducting occurs. I guess it bears repeating.

I receive a strong signal from every DTV station in West Palm Beach and Miami, and when I get heavy pixelation on WPEC-DT I get the same thing on WSVN-DT and WPLG-DT. These three stations are the only VHF DTV allocations in the two markets. I never see the problem on any of the UHF DTV channels. Coincidence? You decide.

Dave,

I disagree. I tried watching WPEC-DT last night. It was unwatchable so I switched to WFORDT and it was okay. Then at 10pm I switched to WPLGDT to watch "NYPD Blue" and except for a couple of breakups during commercial it was fine. The strange thing is I get a better signal from WPECDT than I do from WPLGDT. I don't watch WSVNDT that much but I have never noticed a problem with it. If VHF signals are as susceptible as you say, I would guess the VHF stations will be in real trouble in the future.

Originally posted by Jeff Ostroff
Hey guys, I have a question about Channel 2-1. I noticed duering the day if I tune to Channel 2-1, there is nothing on it, but my Samsuck receiver does indicate "Digital Sound" on screen, indicating that maybe there is a signal there. Sure enough, my meter is at 50%, so I know there is a signal there.

Is this channel only showing programs at night? It seems to show stuff at night, and sit idle during the day with a black screen. Please let me know if you guys see the same thing. Also, where can I lookup more info about what channels 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, and 2-5 are? smae with 67-1, 67-2, 67-3, etc.

Jeff - Yes the PBS station in Miami/ FTL has it's HD turned on during the evening except during the weekends. I've found that even thought the guides say they are broadcasting in the afternoons, most of the time they are not. You will find that when they are in HD 2-1 is active and they turn off their 2-3 and 2-4 sub-channels. 2-2 is their SD feed for normal PBS programming while 2-5 is their PBS-ARTs feed. I've found that during the weekends, 2-1 will come on around noon and will go off at 11pm. If you get a chance, please watch some of the PBS HD shows. They (without question) have the best PQ when broadcasting their travel programs. Most are actually done with HD cameras and you can really notice the difference. Check it out!

Regarding 67-1 that is the PAX feed. They have sub-channels at 67-2 Thu 67-4 but I have not found any programming on these channels. The PAX feeds are all in SD and not in HD.

You can find all this information at TitanTV.com. If you haven't used Titan you owe it to yourself to use it. Without a doubt, it's the best HD guide available (and you can program it for your specific location - WWW.TITANTV.COM)

Originally posted by tonyv
Dave,

I disagree. I tried watching WPEC-DT last night. It was unwatchable so I switched to WFORDT and it was okay. Then at 10pm I switched to WPLGDT to watch "NYPD Blue" and except for a couple of breakups during commercial it was fine. The strange thing is I get a better signal from WPECDT than I do from WPLGDT. I don't watch WSVNDT that much but I have never noticed a problem with it. If VHF signals are as susceptible as you say, I would guess the VHF stations will be in real trouble in the future.

Yes, could be. We might end up contemplating an expensive fix...moving to UHF, but obviously we'd prefer a better solution, so don't get your hopes up on that happening. And as an added bonus highband VHF (7 through 13) lie just above the FM radio broadcast band so we get splatter and harmonics causing problems sometimes for viewers who live near an FM station.

If it'll make you feel any better, I lose WSVN-DT, WPLG-DT and WPEC-DT every time I get heavy rainfall! My antenna is about two feet away from and looking through a giant banyan tree and when the leaves get really wet they absorb signal in the VHF band so much that reception is disrupted. I'm planning on installing another antenna in a location away from the tree.

I don't see how Dave can be any clearer than this. Thanks.

I was watching King of Queens tonight and noticed the pixelation was happening on a regular interval. So I broke out the stopwatch and timed it between breakups. I found the breakups were occurring approximately every 86 seconds. After a while I was able to predict when they would occur.

It looks to me like we may be having the same problem we had back in October with the signal breaking up on WPEC-DT approximately every 77 seconds.

Originally posted by David McRoy on 10/22/2003
Our signal looks good on all of the relatively new receivers we are using here at the studio but I just gave our engineers a report on what's been happening lately with my three older generation receivers at home and it's not good (as many of you are aware.)

1. Pixelation, freezing and audio dropout every 77 seconds on all three of my receivers simultaneously (Mitsubishi, RCA and Zenith.)
This problem was fixed after WPEC-DT did some work over the weekend of 10/25-10/26.

Originally posted by David McRoy on 10/27/2003
Our engineers did quite a bit of work on our DTV signal this weekend and I'm not seeing the dropouts anymore. How about you guys? After this work was done, the issue of dropouts every 77 seconds on WPEC-DT was fixed.

Can anyone else confirm that this issue is happening about every 86 seconds? If so, then I suggest that David McRoy talk to the engineers at WPEC-DT about reviewing what was done on that weekend in October and see if something they did then could be tried again now.

Again, this is every 86 seconds between the major breakups of the signal. Any other breakups are just random noise.

This is just a theory I have and I would like for others to help me prove or disprove it.

Thanks,
DB

I was getting dropouts on 8, 9 and 13 early last night, requiring careful antenna alignment to settle things down.

This morning here at the studio I was able to verify that WPEC-DT drops out every 86 seconds on every receiver we have at precisely the same time. I have notified the engineers. Thanks for your observation, DB.

Can anyone else confirm that this issue is happening about every 86 seconds? If so, then I suggest that David McRoy talk to the engineers at WPEC-DT about reviewing what was done on that weekend in October and see if something they did then could be tried again now.

I noticed it during King of Queens. Watched analog instead of DT.

Originally posted by dragonbait

I was watching King of Queens tonight and noticed the pixelation was happening on a regular interval. So I broke out the stopwatch and timed it between breakups. I found the breakups were occurring approximately every 86 seconds. After a while I was able to predict when they would occur.

It looks to me like we may be having the same problem we had back in October with the signal breaking up on WPEC-DT approximately every 77 seconds. [/B]

Originally posted by David McRoy
I was getting dropouts on 8, 9 and 13 early last night, requiring careful antenna alignment to settle things down.

This morning here at the studio I was able to verify that WPEC-DT drops out every 86 seconds on every receiver we have at precisely the same time. I have notified the engineers. Thanks for your observation, DB.

Great catch, dragonbait!!!! See, for those of you who rag on others about our complaints on this thread or us "questioning the experts" here (not to name any names or anything...you know who you are) :p , things like this confirm our suspicions about what some say are the causes for such problems in their DT broadcasts. Not that Dave McRoy or anyone else purposely offer us false answers, but even the experts aren't always 100% correct although they are gracious enough to respond to our questions with the best of their knowledge (that is in no way a cut down at Dave or anyone else here...I for one have a lot of respect for Dave). After all, we are here on this thread to question and see to it that our local OTA broadcasters get it right so we can all enjoy their HD broadcasts to their fullest capacity.

Although I do agree that these atmospheric anomalies do affect the DT broadcasts, these pixelizations over the last few days did seem a bit odd and frequent (although I didn't think about taking out a stopwatch, so kudos again to dragonbait :) ) So, in the end, my point is that - at this time with our local HD broadcasts, we still need to be CAUTIOUSLY optimistic and continue posing the question of "why is this happening?"

UPDATE:

Two of our engineers are on the phone with equipment suppliers while crawling all over the DTV racks here at the studio right now.

Originally posted by David McRoy
UPDATE:

Two of our engineers are on the phone with equipment suppliers while crawling all over the DTV racks here at the studio right now.

Thanks, Dave. I know we've said this before, but...if only all the WPB DT station people would monitor this thread AND respond to our questions every week like you do so graciously, then we might only have these problems for short periods of time instead of getting so frustrated for days, weeks, and months at a time. You should teach a class to the "other guys!" :D

Originally posted by bsgoren
Thanks, Dave. I know we've said this before, but...if only all the WPB DT station people would monitor this thread AND respond to our questions every week like you do so graciously, then we might only have these problems for short periods of time instead of getting so frustrated for days, weeks, and months at a time. You should teach a class to the "other guys!" :D

I think you missed one - Dave McKinley (WPTV-DT) monitors this forum and responds to our concerns.

bsgoren - thank you for calling me out. You have permission to use my name when talking about me. I do draw a distinction between legitimate issues (such as lasts nights obvious problems) and just plain nagging.

I noticed last nights problem myself, it was rather irritating, as I had time on my hands for a change and was going to settle in and see what garbage (other than the usual tripe I normally watch) the networks are throwing out in HD these days.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
bsgoren - thank you for calling me out. You have permission to use my name when talking about me. I do draw a distinction between legitimate issues (such as lasts nights obvious problems) and just plain nagging.

I noticed last nights problem myself, it was rather irritating, as I had time on my hands for a change and was going to settle in and see what garbage (other than the usual tripe I normally watch) the networks are throwing out in HD these days.

So, I guess in the old "you're either WITH US or AGAINST US" game, you're on our side now...I knew it all along :D. I know the nagging can be just as irritating as the problems themselves, but again, that why we do this. We need to keep 'em in line so we all can enjoy what we expect given all the hype and promotion the networks are doing about their HD programming. :D

kenni_o - thanks for pointing Dave McKinley at WPTV-DT. Yes, he's responded to our concerns, but quite honestly, compared to Dave McRoy, WPTV-DT Dave has been just ok at addressing and responding to our concerns in a timely manner. Sometimes, he gets back to you right away and other times, you won't hear from him for a while if at all. WPTV-DT Dave is certainly better than others -- let's say WPBF-DT which doesn't seem to monitor nor respond to e-mails or thread postings about their HD broadcasts...does anyone even know their true DT contact name? I was just pointing out that Dave McRoy and the team at WPEC-DT could really teach the others all a few things about top-notch customer service. It seems as if WPEC-DT still has one foot above the rest in our HD market.

BTW - notice all the guides say 'The Apprentice' on NBC is supposed to be in HD...have you ever seen it in 1080i HD? I haven't. Dave McKinley still hasn't responded back to my post and others about this and some other issues...is NBC sending the HD feed to WPTV-DT or not or is there an equiment or personnel failure? Also, this is not the only NBC show which this has been happening to either. Yes, WPTV-DT's audio sync problem was fixed, but it's really annoying when you see the guide show that a certain program is to be broadcast in HD and it's not...not nagging (well maybe a little :) ) but it's the truth.

Originally posted by bsgoren
BTW - notice all the guides say 'The Apprentice' on NBC is supposed to be in HD...have you ever seen it in 1080i HD? I haven't. Dave McKinley still hasn't responded back to my post and others about this and some other issues...is NBC sending the HD feed to WPTV-DT or not or is there an equiment or personnel failure? Also, this is not the only NBC show which this has been happening to either. Yes, WPTV-DT's audio sync problem was fixed, but it's really annoying when you see the guide show that a certain program is to be broadcast in HD and it's not...not nagging (well maybe a little :) ) but it's the truth.

bsgoran - what guide are you looking at that shows "The Apprentice" in HD? The only one I trust, TITAN TV, doesn't show it in HD and never has. Even TITAN gets it wrong sometimes but I'd say 90-95% of the time they are right. If you are not using TITAN, you should try it. WWW.TITANTV.COM

Originally posted by Kenni_o
bsgoran - what guide are you looking at that shows "The Apprentice" in HD? The only one I trust, TITAN TV, doesn't show it in HD and never has. Even TITAN gets it wrong sometimes but I'd say 90-95% of the time they are right. If you are not using TITAN, you should try it. WWW.TITANTV.COM


DirecTV Guide (5.1) shows it HD, but maybe it is a mistake. HDTV Galaxy.com does not list it in HD either. Either way, there are times that shows that are definitely supposed to be broadcast in HD are not broadcast in HD by WPTV-DT. Usually, this is because the HD feed is not passed to WPTV-DT by NBC but sometimes, it's been an equipment or personnel failure. I'm just saying it would be nice if someone could let us know and respond to our questions in a timely manner. If I'm wrong about The Apprentice, then I apologize. As always, communication is key and that's one reason why I think WPEC-DT is the HD leader in the WPB market today...communication, responsiveness, quality, stability, customer care, etc. Soon, we won't be the only ones demanding this from our local DT broadcasters...in the coming years, there will be many more.

bsg - there are no "sides" in this forum. If there is a side at all, I'm on the side with paying attention and common sense. Two things I freely admit to tossing by the way side on occasion........

Originally posted by JeffBowser
bsg - there are no "sides" in this forum. If there is a side at all, I'm on the side with paying attention and common sense. Two things I freely admit to tossing by the way side on occasion........

I was just kidding. Sorry if you didn't get that. Yes, we're all on the same side of 'paying attention and common sense.' :) Anyhow, let's see if Dave McRoy's engineers figure out and fix the 86 sec. pixelization thing. We'll look tonight and the next few days.

Originally posted by David McRoy
UPDATE:

Two of our engineers are on the phone with equipment suppliers while crawling all over the DTV racks here at the studio right now. Tonight Survivor and CSI were perfect for me on 12-1. Not a single case of pixelation that I saw.

I noticed when I hit the info button on my Samsung SIR-T151 HD receiver, the info screen never shows th ename of the show, it just says No Title, or sometimes DTV Program. Don't they ever give the name of the show on these stations?

Also, in the info screen, the Samsung often shows "HD", even when we know the show is a SD program, not and HD. Anyone know why this happens?

CSI and Survivor were just fine last night, although I admit I watched Survivor on DirecTV (I hate sidebars - when will the tape Survivor in HD, eh?). I started watching CSI on Miami 4-1, but, of all things, THEY pixelated, and at the worst times. So, for a change, I switched to 12-1, and they had the better signal. What a turn-around.

Originally posted by Jeff Ostroff
I noticed when I hit the info button on my Samsung SIR-T151 HD receiver, the info screen never shows th ename of the show, it just says No Title, or sometimes DTV Program. Don't they ever give the name of the show on these stations?

Also, in the info screen, the Samsung often shows "HD", even when we know the show is a SD program, not and HD. Anyone know why this happens?

Jeff- The only station supplying guide info is WBZL-DT 39-1. They have complete info for all their programs. None of the other local stations are providing this information. I don't know why but they have elected not to do it. What's even worse is WPBF-DT (16-1), I don't even get their call letters and they are not being redirected to 25-1 as most online guides indicate.

The HD on the info screen indicates that the station is transmitting either in 1080i or 720p and nothing about whether the program is actually in HD. You will always see the HD for major network stations with the exception of FOX. PBS 2-1 will indicated HD when it's on the air, but the sub-channels 2-2 thru 2-5 will always indicate SD.

I think we are doing better now. Haven't noticed any dropouts.

Please continue to keep us honest, guys!

Hello all. I have been monitoring, but have not had the time to post lately. To address some concerns, NBC has been the culprit of our recent downfalls. ER a few weeks back, SD due to NBC...Miami had the same, SD. NBC has also failed to program their receiver for the correct service a few weeks going now, we have learned how to correct it locally when not passing HD. Now, the good news. Daytona 500 will be broadcast in HD, as well as portions of the Olympics in August. NBC is finally making preps to offer 5.1 audio to stations, unsure of expected roll out date yet. The Apprentice, is in SD at this point. WPTV DT is also working on rolling out Electronic Program Guide in near future. Our sister station, WPXP DT how now corrected a transmission issue, so that all boxes should now get the 4 SD channels offered locally by Pax. I hope to get back here in a more regular fashion. Dave

Originally posted by WPTV DT DOE
Hello all. I have been monitoring, but have not had the time to post lately. To address some concerns, NBC has been the culprit of our recent downfalls. ER a few weeks back, SD due to NBC...Miami had the same, SD. NBC has also failed to program their receiver for the correct service a few weeks going now, we have learned how to correct it locally when not passing HD. Now, the good news. Daytona 500 will be broadcast in HD, as well as portions of the Olympics in August. NBC is finally making preps to offer 5.1 audio to stations, unsure of expected roll out date yet. The Apprentice, is in SD at this point. WPTV DT is also working on rolling out Electronic Program Guide in near future. Our sister station, WPXP DT how now corrected a transmission issue, so that all boxes should now get the 4 SD channels offered locally by Pax. I hope to get back here in a more regular fashion. Dave

Thank you, Dave. Your response to our concerns is much appreciated. Again, we are not here to whine; just to keep you and the others informed of what we all see from our homes when watching DT broadcasts. With all the hype, promotion, and promises on HD these days by the major networks, expectations from consumers and your own bosses (I imagine) are getting high.

When we ask questions and raise concerns, it is appreciated when our posts and broadcast issues are addressed in a timely manner. At least we know you @ WPTV-DT and Dave @ WPEC-DT are listening to us and care enough to keep us up to date, while we have no idea if the others @ the other WPB DT stations are doing the same. BTW - looking forward to seeing the 2004 Olympics in HD and to 5.1 DD audio!! :) Thank you.

Audio sync really bad (at least a full 1 sec delay or more) at begginning of NASCAR event on WPTVDT.

Audio sync seems to have improved - it's still noticable, but better (probably 1/4 0 1/2 sec out of sync).

5-1 was going out on me every 5 seconds or so earlier - anyone else see this ?

Originally posted by WPTV DT DOE
Hello all. I have been monitoring, but have not had the time to post lately. To address some concerns, NBC has been the culprit of our recent downfalls. ER a few weeks back, SD due to NBC...Miami had the same, SD. NBC has also failed to program their receiver for the correct service a few weeks going now, we have learned how to correct it locally when not passing HD. Now, the good news. Daytona 500 will be broadcast in HD, as well as portions of the Olympics in August. NBC is finally making preps to offer 5.1 audio to stations, unsure of expected roll out date yet. The Apprentice, is in SD at this point. WPTV DT is also working on rolling out Electronic Program Guide in near future. Our sister station, WPXP DT how now corrected a transmission issue, so that all boxes should now get the 4 SD channels offered locally by Pax. I hope to get back here in a more regular fashion. Dave

Dave,

Not trying to be harsh, but WPTV-DT's HD broadcast of the Daytona 500 has started out to be just pitiful, regardless if it is NBC's fault or not. The audio sync is way off (oh, no the audio sync problem...again!! :mad: ) and at 1:50PM, we saw a lot of screen flickering between blank screen, green, and purple flickers and then, the video returned...in SD. I'm sorry, but you guys have been broadcasting in HD for how long again??? Please, I know it may be a competitive issue, but it would be great if you and your team could get a tour or a few lessons from the guys at WPEC-DT. At least, their HD broadcast of the Superbowl on CBS was what we expected from a DT station broadcasting for many months...very stable, high-quality HD with just a few exceptions. Again, I'm not trying to be completely rude; I'm just calling 'em like I see 'em and you guys have proven again that you're still not even in the same league at WPEC-DT when it comes to HD broadcasts. I understand your job may be very tough given the resources, and I feel for 'ya but the "higher ups" should really understand that WPTV-DT's HD performance has so far been , well just embarassing. Please, please -- whatever it takes, please get this stuff fixed already (or have someone get some serious conference calls going with NBC) .:mad: Thank you.

Update - about 2:00PM - HD picture is back; not sure about the audio sync since it is a car race afterall :)

Update - 2:50PM-3:00PM - audio sync problem seems as if it's here to stay and we have a "frozen" screen shot (from inside a race car) for at least 10 minutes thorugh commercials and through the race...not good.

Dave - why can't WPTVDT get the audio sync problems resolved?

Now the picture is frozen on the car cam with audio transmission continuing including commerical breaks. I'll bet your commercial advertisers just love this look!

The FCC sees it this way - "They have until 2006 to reach compliance."

Update - 2:02PM - video back...but in SD...AGAIN! Boy, do they have problems. :mad:

What do people think about the problems at WPTV-DT -- equipment related issues or personnel problems? Does WPEC-DT have better equipment or are the engineers there or at other DT stations better qualified to troubleshoot the issues? It was my understanding that most DT stations have the same or similar equipment to broadcast in HD...is this not correct?

Anyone have access to the Miami NBC OTA HD station? If so can you tell us whether they're having similar problems. How much of this is network vs. local affiliate?

Originally posted by lwhitefl
Anyone have access to the Miami NBC OTA HD station? If so can you tell us whether they're having similar problems. How much of this is network vs. local affiliate?

I would be shocked if NBC would be messing up their HD feed this badly during the Daytona 500 (since it's the "Superbowl" of NASCAR...just look at the commercials during breaks - if you can actually see and hear them on WPTV-DT that is). My bet is that it's WPTV-DT's problems (here's a hint - audio sync and frozen screen problems are back again).

...can't wait to see the Olympics this summer on WPTV-DT :rolleyes:

I did see some delay on NBC out of miami as well but havent watched much of the race at all. I will go check.

HD seems bad in general this weekend - Shrek on channel 5 - goes black every so often (5-90 seconds or so). Dunno about the car racing, I'd sooner have a root canal than watch that, but I missed my chance to look at the HD signal, anyway (painting the house).

"Shrek" on WTVJ NBC6 looked excellent, though there was an annoying occasional crackling in the audio (which, by the way, appears to have been a regional problem).

The Miami NBC station (6.1) does not have audio sync problems and never has at my location. The WPTV station has claimed to be on-the-air since last May and from my point of view "they are unable to get it right!". It has been one problem after another with their station. If anyone can get the Miami station I suggest they tune it in for any HD broadcasts. The Daytona race today was awesome!

Originally posted by bsgoren

What do people think about the problems at WPTV-DT -- equipment related issues or personnel problems? Does WPEC-DT have better equipment or are the engineers there or at other DT stations better qualified to troubleshoot the issues? It was my understanding that most DT stations have the same or similar equipment to broadcast in HD...is this not correct?

Our guys have had more time to get things right. (We were on the air six months before they were.) And, like WPTV, we're still working on things.

Anyone notice titanTV did not indicate that Shrek was in HD? Pissed me off as I would have recorded it if I had known in advance.

And the Daytona 500 was a joke. A friend of mine, after spending nearly $4500 on new equipment this week and setting it all up getting ready for the race, had friends over and had to keep explaining why the picture was so messed up. Or rather I was explaining as he is still a bit of a HD newbie. I'll tell you this much, the uninitiated were impressed by the picture et al, but all of them stated they were going to wait a few more months to a year before investing in this technology.

Can't say I blame them.

Please do not make the mistake of inviting friends over and relying on local broadcasters to provide a watchable HD picture. At this point in time you will most likely be disappointed. Perhaps by 2006 they should have the "bugs" worked out.
You CAN rely on DSS though for perfect, rock solid HD, although unfortunately some things like NASCAR are not broadcast that way.

I have received good reliable HD from the local broadcasters, but even I was appalled at how bad this weekend was. I even had to remove my antenna input and power-cycle my HD receiver twice, presumably because of bad meta data.

I watched the Daytona 500 on WTVJ yesterday and there were no problems with the picture quality or audio. The HD broadcast was great. I also saw Shrek yesterday and Shrek looked amazing in HD.

Debsman - Shrek will be rebroadcast this Saturday on NBC in HD. It's not listed on TitanTV but it is listed on NBC's website.

Originally posted by geneter
The Miami NBC station (6.1) does not have audio sync problems and never has at my location. The WPTV station has claimed to be on-the-air since last May and from my point of view "they are unable to get it right!". It has been one problem after another with their station. If anyone can get the Miami station I suggest they tune it in for any HD broadcasts. The Daytona race today was awesome!

WTVJ does have audio sync problems for network broadcasts.

The audio sync problem was very slight and I have no idea if it lasted very long because truthfully I was not interested. I just reported what I saw on my system. I used to watch 6.1 exclusively but after adjusting my antenna again I have gotten a very reliable picture from 5.1

I thought some of you might be interested to know that I have just ordered two Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter antennas to test at home. This compact antenna has been highly discussed on this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3392396#post3392396

From the discussion on the thread it seems to be something of a mixed bag: small, attractive/unobtrusive and with good overall performance, yet it won't perform as well as a giant yagi antenna under the most extreme of conditions. It does have decent highband VHF performance as well as good UHF specs, though.

When I get them I'll be testing them from my home in NE Lake Worth both indoors and out and with and without preamps that will provide up to 18 dB of gain. I'll let you guys know via this thread when I post my findings on the thread linked above.

Here's some info from the manufacturer's website:

http://www.winegard.com/offair/squareshooter.htm

Our Chief Engineer also plans to purchase some of these and I'll eventually be able to offer you some anecdotal remarks on how they perform under other conditions/locations.

Dave glad you are testing this, but hi-band VHF yagis and UHF yagis are not giant antennas.

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
Dave glad you are testing this, but hi-band VHF yagis and UHF yagis are not giant antennas.

In most peoples' eyes they are, especially compared with a gray plastic panel that's just 16-inches square!

Originally posted by David McRoy
I thought some of you might be interested to know that I have just ordered two Winegard SS-1000 SquareShooter antennas to test at home. This compact antenna has been highly discussed on this thread:


Dave,

just out of curiosity...what does this antenna go for $$?

I have had much success (for all WPB DT broadcasts only) with the Zenith SS since I live so close to the antenna farm, but with all the HD broadcast issues in our area, I wonder if this would be a good way to pull in the Miami DT broadcasts from another antenna inside our house. Please let us know how your testing goes. Thank you.

Dave, test the SquareShooter in your attick too, if you can, and report back to the group. There's a ton of people liek myself who are waiting until we hear from others, because I have limnited psace in my attick, and I'm tried of wasting money on antennas that don't perform.

bsgoren, the MSRP on the SquareShooter is $150 but the street price is $100. It's expensive for what it is and I suspect the price may drop a little more over time. I suspect I'll get good result with the WPB stations, but given the limited gain of the SquareShooter I'll probably have to use a preamp for Miami stations. We'll see.

Jeff, I have first and second floor "crawl spaces" but no attic as such (flat roof). But, if I can get a decent signal indoors in my house it'll probably work in an attic: my house is a circa 1925 Spanish-style stucco with metal lathe over a wood frame that the stucco is applied to. The metal lathe really attenuates radio frequency energy. BTW, if you buy any antenna that you're not happy with you should try to return it. I always advise viewers to do that. Radio Shack, for one, will let you return an antenna within some specified period of time.

David - my house is not only metal on lathe outside, it has metal and lathe interior walls as well. Talk about antenuation. Even my attic doesn't help much, with the cement tiles, 5/8ths plywood and enough metal tiedowns to equip a small hotel. I am just about ready to put back up a 1970's era antenna pole I took down back in 1998. I suppose if these little square plastic antennas work, they will be more wind resistant than a standard metal antenna, eh ?

I would think they would be...not to mention more parrot proof! I've lost a couple of antennas from lorikeets dong the nasty on long lowband VHF elements.

Now that's an amusing visual !

I've lost 25-1 - no signal at all. 5-1,12-1 and 29-1 are fine. Anybody have the same problem? David - can't wait to hear your report on the SquareShooter, esp. for Miami stations, which I don't get at all.

WFLX-DT off the air for NASCAR and the rest of the day.
Also WPBF-DT is not switching to HD for HD shows.

I was missing WFLX-DT early last night, too.

The Squareshooter antennas should be delivered today.

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
WFLX-DT off the air for NASCAR and the rest of the day.
Also WPBF-DT is not switching to HD for HD shows.

They went off the air sometime during lap 187 of the race, and never came back.

What was the issue ? The loss was immediate and I never saw a picture again. Had to go to Miami FOX station for some 480i stretched. Sweet....

Doug

My initial review of the Winegard SquareShooter HDTV2 SS-1000 panel antenna is now up in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3429195#post3429195

These results are with no preamp. I'll write a new report when I get a preamp from Winegard that's made especially for DTV reception, probably next week.

Dang - quiet up here - has the HD signal stabilized for everyone ? (I've not watched much TV in a week, myself)....

Jeff it seems most HDTV aficionados get really riled up when their sports broadcasts aren't up to par. Guess we'll have to wait for final four.

If anyone hasn't checked out the audio on 25.1, it went from terrible to great.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that there is now a 67.2, 67.3 and 67.4?

Yes on 67.2-4. They've been broadcasting multiple sub channels over a week. Some STB's need a manual scan to get them to show up. It looks like Pax is trying to make 4 SD DTV channels work instead of moving down the path of 1 HD channel (and maybe a sub channel or two). From their point of view they probably see it as the opportunity to sell 3 times more commercials, which is something I'm somewhat surprised has not been done at the other local channels too. The broadcaster's primary business model "as is" seems to encourage this kind of thinking as opposed to 1 pristine HD channel.

Of course, that model needs eyes to actually watch the programming to justify pricing on those commercials. I've taken several peeks at the content on the PAX channels and let's just say, its not exactly mainstream programming. Even the somewhat limited primetime schedules from the big 4 networks probably offers more appeal to the average Joe than what PAX is showing so far.

However, with 4 subchannels, they can pitch prospects that have probably never before considered TV commercials as a marketing medium (because of cost). So, this strategy probably will yield some short-term cash from brand new customers experimenting with TV commercials. The tangibility of that cash vs. the ambiguity of how they are going to make money on a single HD channel will probably make them stick with this strategy for longer than what will seem reasonable to people on this forum.

I hate it, because even modest success (measured in tangible cash from commercial sales) could motivate others to follow. Remember the 2006 mandate is only for DTV (not HDTV), so PAX is fulfilling its obligation with this strategy. If they net more commercial dollars with it, watch out for the others to take competitive steps. Let's hope not.

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
Jeff it seems most HDTV aficionados get really riled up when their sports broadcasts aren't up to par. Guess we'll have to wait for final four.

If anyone hasn't checked out the audio on 25.1, it went from terrible to great.

BTW, has anyone else noticed that there is now a 67.2, 67.3 and 67.4?

Funny, because I noticed a definite audio sync problem just the other night (I think Friday night if I recall) on WPBF-DT while tonight, it's in absolutely perfect full DD 5.1 audio for the Oscars! Go figure :D

At least they're now broadcasting (true) full DD 5.1 audio while all or most of the other WPB DT stations are either still broadcasting in DD 2.0 or Stereo PCM with our receivers "being fooled" to think it's full DD 5.1 audio. Hopefully, it will stay in True DD 5.1 on WPBF-DT from now on, and all the other WPB DT stations will follow soon after...I think I remember Dave McRoy at WPEC-DT recently said they were still waiting for some equipment to complete their full DD 5.1 audio pass-through as did Dave McKinley at WPTV-DT for them as well. I hope they can do it sooner rather than later...DD 5.1 audio definitely accentuates the HD broadcasts! :)

We have been passing-through DD 5.1 from CBS when it's available for several weeks now. When it's not available we send DD 2.0.

Kudos to WPBF-DT for an outstanding job on last night's Oscars broadcast. I only saw two glitches (during the Bob Hope tribute) which was an ABC problem.

I tried to watch Star Wars on 29-1 (Fox?) last night, and every so often, it would go into a sequence of on again off again, lasting a minute or so, about every 10 mins (roughly). Bummer.

I think WFLX 29-1 is running at low power since they went off-air weekend before last. I have two antennas that I use and one gets dropouts, the other will not even lock.

Originally posted by David McRoy
We have been passing-through DD 5.1 from CBS when it's available for several weeks now. When it's not available we send DD 2.0.

Kudos to WPBF-DT for an outstanding job on last night's Oscars broadcast. I only saw two glitches (during the Bob Hope tribute) which was an ABC problem.

My apologies, Dave. I thought you guys were but then I had remembered something about 'waiting for some equipment,' but that must have been what WPTV-DT Dave had mentioned...sorry, I guess I was mixed up :confused: I'll pay more attention to the DD 5.1 audio during CSI Miami and other CBS shows now. Thank you.

bsgoren,

I think the engineers have an automatic switch setup now so that CBS metadata selects what we send while we're on the CBS-HD feed: DD 5.1 or DD 2.0. And another in-house automatic switch that selects DD 2.0 when we're on any other source.

wondering if you guys could help me out, i receive all the channels except 2-1 etc. originallyi could tune in to thechannels but no picture now i get absolutley nothing. is there something going on with the pbs station? I have a panny tu-hds20 and radio shack ota. hope u guys could shed some light on my problem.

Rocky1:

I see this a lot also on 2-1, and I think it is because they only show programming on 2-1 in HD at night, and have nothing during the day, while leaving the pilot signal on.

So for example, my Samsung HDTV receiver during the day will show "Digital Audio" on the screen briefly when I land on 2-1, indicating it sees a channel with a blank signal there, but nothing else. Note that you will not see "No Signal", so you know there is a signal there, and you are tuned in, there is just no program being shown. It seems like they just leave the channel on with nothing on it.

Tee HDTV shows on 2-1 are few and far between. I usually go to TitanTV.com, to get the list of today's HDTV programs, and for example, today they show Great Performances (Concert for George) as the only HDTV show pn 2-1. This show comes on tonight at 9 PM.

So I would try 2-1 at 8pm, and see if they have anything on, and if not then, it will jusr be the one show on a 9pm. If you tune in a few minutes before the show, Channel 2 has some nice HDTV demo that precedes the normal HDTV program.

Let me know if this helps you!

Jeff

Sometimes WPBT-DT transmits SD programming streams on 2-2, 2-3, 2-4 and 2-5 with nothing on 2-1.

Originally posted by rocky1
wondering if you guys could help me out, i receive all the channels except 2-1 etc. originallyi could tune in to thechannels but no picture now i get absolutley nothing. is there something going on with the pbs station? I have a panny tu-hds20 and radio shack ota. hope u guys could shed some light on my problem. Rocky1 - adding to the others before me. The PBS station 2-1 will be on during the weekend starting around noon with their HD feed and as others indicated, during the week at 8:00 PM. I hope this helps!

i tried this evening could not get anything on 2-1, tried around 9pm and nothing.seems to be worse now cpl of weeks ago atleast i could tune but still didnt get picture.

Originally posted by rocky1
i tried this evening could not get anything on 2-1, tried around 9pm and nothing.seems to be worse now cpl of weeks ago atleast i could tune but still didnt get picture. Rocky1 - Maybe they are having transmitter problems. I know they were operating this last weekend. Did you notice if any of their sub-channels (2-2 thru 2-5) were up and working? I believe they drop 2-3 and 2-4 when they switch on their HD channel (2-1). So if you can get 2-3 or 2-4 then you know that 2-1 is not operating and that's their intent. I'll try to remember and check if I can get this tonight.

Rocky1,

Are you tuning channel 18-1? That's the channel you need to tune the first time you attempt to get their signal. After that your receiver will "remap" the channel to 2-1.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Rocky1,

Are you tuning channel 18-1? That's the channel you need to tune the first time you attempt to get their signal. After that your receiver will "remap" the channel to 2-1. Dave - good suggestion! I never thought about him not being re-mapped to 2-1 from 18-1. Hopefully Rocky1 tried the PBS sub-channels to know if he is re-mapped correctly

Actually, I think there were issues with 2-1, last night at 9 PM I tuned into 2-1 to prove my point that I made in my earlier email that sometimes there is no signal there until the HD shows air at night. Low and behold, I could not see nay signal on any of the 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 2-4, 2-5 channels! Damn, I'm a George Harrison fan too, I was pissed.

I don't know if it's me or not, but since some of you report the same issues, maybe Ch 2 was not putting out as much power as it normally does???? I would think all these guys have their transmitters pretty tightly controlled.

My situation is worse than most of you. I'm in Margate/CoralSprings, exactly 20 miles away from all the Miami and Palm Beach Towers, with a Stealthtenna int the attick, I'm resisting putting anything outside for beauty resons right now. I may have to move it outside, or look at the SqS from Winegard once Dave completes his studies of his Squareshooter.

One other thing I see a lot of is the NBC station 6-1 freezes a LOT!!! Anyone else see this? I look at my Samsung receiver's signal meter, which I'm sure is non-scientific, but it shows about 50%, which is still good enough to tune in the channel. And it keeps dropping to 0, then coming back to 50%, then dropping to 0, this makes no sense at all. This is all new cabling, using the new ChannelMaster StealthTenna that HomeDepot and Lowe's sell locally here.

Another issue we see a lot of is audio just drops a lot, usually on ABC 10-1, and NBC 5-1. If you change the channel and come back to it, it re-syncs up and audio comes back. Any advice on that would be helpful too. I question whether it's a software issue with my Samsung receiver.

A word of advise to you newbies out there in the market for a HDTV receiver, make sure the one you buy is UPGRADEABLE through either RS232 or USB, preferably USB. Many of the receivers are in constant need of software upgrades to eliminate glitches.

Jeff

Originally posted by Jeff Ostroff
Another issue we see a lot of is audio just drops a lot, usually on ABC 10-1, and NBC 5-1. If you change the channel and come back to it, it re-syncs up and audio comes back. Any advice on that would be helpful too. I question whether it's a software issue with my Samsung receiver.
Jeff Jeff - I'm have the same problem with 5-1 both OTA and the Adelphia Cable feed. It is freezing up a lot. I don't watch our ABC station 25-1 a lot but have not seen the same freeze up. I'm wondering if you don't have some difficult atmosphere problems going on right now?

Sorry to hear that 2-1 maybe having transmitter problems. Does anyone know if the other PBS station WLRN 18-1 has come back online yet?

I keep hearing this "Atmospheric Distrubance" issue tossed around a lot, like some catch all for all issues. This reminds of the old IBM Dvide By 0 error in the 80's.

It's beautiful weather out, perfectly clear and Sunny. Last night was so perfect, it was almost a telescope night for me. There were no planes flying overhead, no magnetic storms, no thunderheads or rain anywhere closebuy, no hair dryers, no one farting, nothing!

In my book there are 3 possible explanations

1) We all have crappy receivers

2) Software bugs in our receivers

3) Stations are not putting out good power, or not putting out data properly.

If your receiver is like mine, you won't get the subchannels when 2-1 is inactive unless you have added them to your local channels list while they are active.

In other words, when you catch 2-1 on the air, sequentially tune and add to your local channels list each of the five program streams: 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 2-4 and 2-5.

Dave - I was in your neck of the woods today and took the opportunity to drive by your house to see if I could see the SqS, and lo and behold the one with the rotor was plainly visible. How in the world do you get any signal with the giant tree to the west?? Have you pruned some branches in order to get a signal through? If you know I would like to know the size of the mounting plate on the SqS 'cause I think I might mount a SqS on the soffit of my house and give up on the "antenna farm" I have in the attic above my garage - 1 RS UHF, 1 RS 'The Stick' and 2 Silver Sensors - since I can't seem to get them to work together!! Can't wait to see your report on the pre-amp. Thanks

Jeff--
I, too, found 2-1 to be off last night. As this is written, there is some weird music being played -- with video -- on 2-1, 2-2 and 2-3. The signal is near the top of the scale of a Hughes HTL-HD.

Last might, WTVJ-DT 6-1 was flawless during "The West Wing" and "Law and Order". The signal was near the top of the scale.

I suspect that your problem might indeed lie with your antenna. I am about 25 miles south of the Miami towers and receive very strong signals from all of the Miami stations via the smallest RS UHF/VHF outdoor antenna. I even get very watchable reception of WFLX in WPB, which is good because the Miami FOX station is (expletive omitted).

i tryed again,at noon i was able to tune in to 2-1 but no picture, i tune in to 18-1 no picture it did map me back to 2-1 on one occasion. 20 min later tryed again cant tune in to 2-1 but 18-1 still there but no pic. last nite at 9pm tryed no tuning to 2-1 could tune to 18-1 but again no pic. i guess i should just give up. last nite they had ray orbinson on channel 2,would of been nice in hd.

I managed to pull in 2-1 myself last night, for the first time ever. Granted it broke up a bit too much to watch for long. Disappointing, because I actually was enjoying the picture and that "weird music" in between the pixelization episodes. Now I am really tempted to re-erect the antenna tower I took down years ago.

Um. OK. WPTV-DT 5-1 has been off air for two days now. No one noticed? :rolleyes:

I noticed. I gave it a full day. Then, I tried a new manual scan of 55. Nothing. Was there any hint of a planned downtime event? Or did one of those infamous trees fall in the forest?

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
I noticed. I gave it a full day. Then, I tried a new manual scan of 55. Nothing. Was there any hint of a planned downtime event? Or did one of those infamous trees fall in the forest?

I watched the Doral on 5-1 over the weekend. I also watched Law and Order in HD last night and I am current watching 5-1 right now. I have a Sony HD200. I wonder if we are having the first gen box issue again.

Yeah it is back out for me again too on a DST-3000. I noticed last nite.

Yes same problem again I can't get 5-1 on RCA DCT 100.

Dr Guava

I'm using a Mitsubishi HD-5, a clone of the Hughes E-86. I get zero signal on UHF channel 55. My friend in Boynton with an E-86 gets the same results but he can get the Miami NBC DT station so he does not bother with WPTV.
I will be getting the new HD DirecTivo PVR soon, also made by Hughes. I hope I have better luck with it.

ANSEK, I'm using a Zenith 1080 (2nd or 3rd gen box). 0 signal on 5-1. Manual scan picks up nothing.

I would guess the signal is completely down if you were not claiming to get it. The analog signal on 5 is coming in fine.

That tropospheric effect must be in full swing tonight, as I am getting everything from Miami and most from Orlando (and I'm in Hobe Sound). I got by with 6-1 for NBC tonight (but that's not always an option from my location).

Let's hope 5-1 gets their (signal) act together.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
ANSEK, I'm using a Zenith 1080 (2nd or 3rd gen box). 0 signal on 5-1. Manual scan picks up nothing.

I would guess the signal is completely down if you were not claiming to get it. The analog signal on 5 is coming in fine.

That tropospheric effect must be in full swing tonight, as I am getting everything from Miami and most from Orlando (and I'm in Hobe Sound). I got by with 6-1 for NBC tonight (but that's not always an option from my location).

Let's hope 5-1 gets their (signal) act together.


There has to be something funny going on with their signal. My signal strength is very high. I can assure you that their signal has not been down during my viewing hours.

It appears everyone having signal issues with 5-1 is using an earlier receiver (I would consider the Zenith 1080 to be a gen 1.5 unit).

We last noticed this problem with 5-1 when they were experiencing arching that interfered with the signal. Has anyone emailed Dave McKinley?

I couldn't get 55 last night, either.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
I'm in Hobe Sound

Really Darryl, we would have never guessed! :D :D :p ;)

I was pulling in Naples last night without a problem. I'll have to try Orlando next time I see Naples coming in clearly - hey, you never know! :)

Originally posted by greenknight
Dave - I was in your neck of the woods today and took the opportunity to drive by your house to see if I could see the SqS, and lo and behold the one with the rotor was plainly visible. How in the world do you get any signal with the giant tree to the west?? Have you pruned some branches in order to get a signal through? If you know I would like to know the size of the mounting plate on the SqS 'cause I think I might mount a SqS on the soffit of my house and give up on the "antenna farm" I have in the attic above my garage - 1 RS UHF, 1 RS 'The Stick' and 2 Silver Sensors - since I can't seem to get them to work together!! Can't wait to see your report on the pre-amp. Thanks

When that banyan tree gets really saturated with rain water I see some analog signal deterioration from the Lantana antenna farm and I've never seen a signal from Tampa or Orlando from that antenna location, but I have another antenna at the back of the house that can "see" around the north side of the tree.

THe SqS's mounting plate is identical to a DBS dish mount. It comes with a mounting pole/plate combo.

I still haven't received the preamp but I'll let you know as soon as I do.

Originally posted by David McRoy
I couldn't get 55 last night, either.
David - What is your status today? I had 5-1 until 7:30 when I switched over to your station for the rest of the evening. Got up this morning and 5-1 was strong and clear from 6 am till I left for work. For those who say they didn't have a picture for a couple of days does that include Sunday evening? I watched 5-1 Sunday night starting with Dateline, American Dreams before switching over to Alias. It was strong and clear. I'm using OTA Samsung 351.

For those who couldn't receive 2-1 last week, it was on this weekend from noon on both Saturday and Sunday. Great PQ as always.

David---A question for you on a subject that I have never seen addressed: I have a Loewe Aconda and a Sony HD200. They are connected by both component and S-video. Closed captions are turned on on both the Loewe and the Sony. Through the S-video I get captions on both 4.1 and 12.1. Through the component connection I get captions on 4.1, but not on 12.1. Since my wife has a hearing problem, any CBS HDTV we watch is out of Miami. Do you have an explanation?

Ken,

I leave for work at 4:30 a. m. and don't look at TV before leaving. I'll check the receivers here at the station.

Alan,

I don't know what could be going on. We do send closed captioning for everything on both our analog and digital channels. We monitor captioning for both here in master control.

WPEC-DT will be posting election results as they are updated to us from county elections offices in our viewing area tonight on Channel 12-2. I'm going to recommend to station management that we not resort to putting our SD production control room on the HD service on 12-1 for "squeeze backs" to reveal election results there, since DTV viewers can check 12-2 whwenever they want. To do so would temporarily interrupt the HD picture from CBS-HD.

I'm going to recommend to station management that we not resort to putting our SD production control room on the HD service on 12-1 for "squeeze backs" to reveal election results there, since DTV viewers can check 12-2 whwenever they want.

Very good suggestion David. Thank you. I like the fact that you are using the sub-channel for election results too. I knew that you were going to do that when it was announced on your evening news.

Originally posted by David McRoy
WPEC-DT will be posting election results as they are updated to us from county elections offices in our viewing area tonight on Channel 12-2. I'm going to recommend to station management that we not resort to putting our SD production control room on the HD service on 12-1 for "squeeze backs" to reveal election results there, since DTV viewers can check 12-2 whwenever they want. To do so would temporarily interrupt the HD picture from CBS-HD. Dave - Great idea. That would put the sub-channel to better use than the weather loop.

Yes, especially since the weather here all this week will be esentially perfect!;)

I've seen some posts eluding to this problem, but what happened to WPTVDT (55-1)? They've been off the air since last weekend here.

Len, WPTV-DT is having "Exciter" problems at the transmitter again. You will remember the last time that happened it caused all 1st generation receivers to reject their signal. The last time it was caused from an arcing electirical box. They are working on it.

Why do you ask? Was there something on NBC that you wanted to see in hi-Def? ;)

Originally posted by lwhitefl
I've seen some posts eluding to this problem, but what happened to WPTVDT (55-1)? They've been off the air since last weekend here.


WPTV-DT is not off the air. I am not having a problem receiving WPTV-DT with my Sony HD200. I believe there is a problem with WPTV-DT's signal that is causing problems with earlier units. We have seen this before; you might remember the problems WPTV-DT had last year that resulted in people with earlier receivers not having the ability to pickup WPTV-DT.

I am only trying to help people trouble shoot. Someone should call Dave McKinley.

The last post I saw from Dave McKinley was he was going to be monitoring this forum!

I begin to think I want to spring another small fortune less than a year from getting my first one and get a gen 2 HD receiver, this is nuts.

Originally posted by rocky1
wondering if you guys could help me out, i receive all the channels except 2-1 etc. originallyi could tune in to thechannels but no picture now i get absolutley nothing. is there something going on with the pbs station? I have a panny tu-hds20 and radio shack ota. hope u guys could shed some light on my problem. Rocky1 - are you still have problems with PBS 2-1? Lots of us here in PBC are having problems getting our NBC station 5-1 but it only seems to effect gen-1 receivers. I have a newer Samsung 351 and I'm not having any problems. I was wondering if those not picking up 2-1 last week could be experiencing the same problems. I had a good picture on 2-1 everytime I've checked it; Sat thru Tues. Just curious.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
I begin to think I want to spring another small fortune less than a year from getting my first one and get a gen 2 HD receiver, this is nuts.

You can get in touch with the folks at WPTV at this link:
CONTACT WPTV (http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/wptv_contact_us/)

Or try to receive digital stations outside of Palm Beach County.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
I begin to think I want to spring another small fortune less than a year from getting my first one and get a gen 2 HD receiver, this is nuts.

Jeff--
One can purchase a new Hughes HDL-HD or Samsung SIR-TS360 (their choice) HD receiver from DirecTV Customer Retention (800-600-8977).

The price for two year DirecTv subscribers is $99. For shorter term subscribers, it is $199. (Actually, they charge $399 plus tax and freight to your credit card and credit all but
the net cost stated above to your DirecTV account,)

For more, see the long threads on the subject in the AVS Hardware and DirecTiVo Fora.

No guarantee that this will solve your problem. Perhaps someone using these receivers in PB can help.

kenni-nope not getting 2-1 etc,but do tune in to 18-1 but no picture. i think i've given up.now i get everything else flawlessly. i know people criticize the panny tu-hds20 for being slow but thats the only problem and of course the fan noise. hopefully i'll be able to maybe change the fan some how.this hd receiver relly doesnt have any issues other than "slow"and "fan".so i dont think the receiver is the problem for not getting 2-1.

Rocky--
Are you aware that WPBT-DT 2-1 does not go on the air until 8 PM?

Try 2-4 and 2-5, which are on now.

wjbr-yes i have tried on all the channels during the day and at night and still got nothing.

Originally posted by rocky1
wjbr-yes i have tried on all the channels during the day and at night and still got nothing. Rocky1 - I know we talked about this last week but what kind of signal strength are you showing for 18-1 (2-1)? Are you getting signal just not a picture due to multipath problems? I'm picking up 18-1 (2-1) with a SS - pointing south - sitting on top on my wall unit and must be 25-30 miles away from their antenna. I get a reasonable signal (5-6) but it stays locked in and great PQ. The problem is if you can't get a signal on 18-1 then it will not remap to 2-1 for you, which also means you will no be getting the sup-channels.

I wish I had some better ideas to help. Sorry!

i really dont know how to check signal strength,all i can say is that when i tune to 18-1 i get a blank screen . when i go to 2-1 it maps me to the analog channel 2.i have a r/s outdoor antenna installed pointing NE.a cpl of weeks ago it mapped from 18-1 to 2-1 but only once, and even then never got pic.

Originally posted by rocky1
i really dont know how to check signal strength,all i can say is that when i tune to 18-1 i get a blank screen . when i go to 2-1 it maps me to the analog channel 2.i have a r/s outdoor antenna installed pointing NE.a cpl of weeks ago it mapped from 18-1 to 2-1 but only once, and even then never got pic. Rocky1 - I just scanned the OP manual for your Panasonic HD receiver and it only has a signal strength meter for tuning in a Sat and not OTA stations. But it does indicate several times that you need to do an auto scan for new channels in the OTA mode. Have you tried going to the SETUP menu, Ant Setup and rerunning the Auto Scan again? I know I need to run my auto scan when a new channel comes online or I change antennas. Sometimes the STB will allow me to add a station but other times it will not. Auto scan is needed to map it and the sub-channels in my case.

How did you align your antenna when you put it up? With my Samsung, I have a meter and can check the signal strength all the time. This allow me to rotate my antenna until I get the best signal for the channel I'm tuning. Is there a chance your antenna is just a little off the antenna sites. I believe most of the Miami / Ft Lauderdale station antenna are located in west Hollywood. From my location, I get 2-1, 4-1, 6-1, 39-1 by pointing my antenna almost due South.

i cant add sub-channels on this receiver. i did do a auto-scan 3x about 30mins ago and was able to tune in to all the 2-1etc channels ,but still do not get a pic.i had also checked with antennaweb when i installed the antenna as far as pointing in the proper direction.all the stions indicate between 34 and 37 compass point,and i aligned visually.i know that the pbs and a cpl of the other channels i do get are in the same alignment.

Originally posted by rocky1
i cant add sub-channels on this receiver. i did do a auto-scan 3x about 30mins ago and was able to tune in to all the 2-1etc channels ,but still do not get a pic.i had also checked with antennaweb when i installed the antenna as far as pointing in the proper direction.all the stions indicate between 34 and 37 compass point,and i aligned visually.i know that the pbs and a cpl of the other channels i do get are in the same alignment. Rocky1 - you said you could tune all the 2-1 sub-channels but not a picture. Is that no picture on all the sub-channels (2-2,2-3,2-4,2-5)? or just 2-1? If you have the sub-channels mapped from 18-1 (their actual broadcast channel) over to 2-1 thru 2-5 then you are getting enough of a signal to lock on the channel. The only thing I know that would cause your problem is a multipath issue which can be corrected by rotating your antenna just a little. Just a slight change can make a station with a strong signal come in or not come in. If I were you I'd try tweaking the antenna a little each direction and see if that doesn't get you a picture.

thats what i did i tweaked the antenna i did it a cpl of times.the first time i lost a different channel each time even after auto-scan. i finally got it where i think it should be since i was able to get all the 2-1 etc channels tuned in but did not get a pic. originally when i went to 18-1 it said channel not avilable,i cant remember now but i think the 2-1 etc said not available also but not sure. i do get every channel so i dont know why no pic on the pbs channels.

That panasonic unit is the same as the Hughes, Toshiba and Mitsubishi HD recievers we have all complained about with 5-1. There was a problem exactlly like you stated for a long time with these same recievers that was fixed in a firmware update. Do you have DirecTV as well or are you using the reciever for OTA only? If using DirecTV also what firmware is your unit?

Still having problems with 5-1 btw, thank god for 6-1.

i have direct tv, and i dont mean to be ignorant but what is the firmware.

i think i may know what you mean by firmware. could it be v8.10

I still can't receive WPTV-DT. Issues that affect older receivers again?

david- what receiver do you have?

Mitsubishi SR-HD500 (Hughes E86 clone...it's a 1st generation receiver.)

Originally posted by David McRoy
Mitsubishi SR-HD500 (Hughes E86 clone...it's a 1st generation receiver.) David - must be the gen-1 problem cause I was watching WPTV-DT last night starting at 9:00 with Law and Order. I had no problems at all with 5-1.

Rocky1 - Looks like you could be having the same gen-1 problem except on 2-1. Maybe someone with more knowledge about the Gen-1 issue could let you know what is going on.

Thanks for the suggestions on receivers. I have a Samsung T160 now, I'll check out the 360. Or, perhaps, I will just wait for gen 3 - it's now a never ending series of obsolescence for TV stuff now that it is digital. Bleh. My cousin at FAU is now desiging quad hi-def cameras for a well known Hollywood producer. How long will it be before that trickles down, eh ?

Originally posted by David McRoy
Mitsubishi SR-HD500 (Hughes E86 clone...it's a 1st generation receiver.)

Same one I have.

We have had exciter problems with the HD transmitter and are still solving the issue, it is up sporadically.
Dave McKinley
03/09/2004

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
Same one I have.

Dave McKinley
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have had exciter problems with the HD transmitter and are still solving the issue, it is up sporadically.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
03/09/2004 Can someone (without getting too technical) briefly explain why the exciter problem at WPTV causes Gen-1 receivers to loose the station and the Gen-2 STB don't. Thanks

Rocky--
Perhaps I missed it, but I don't recall you writing that you rebooted the receiver while 2-1 is on the air in the evening after 8 PM.

I once had a (different) blank channel and a reboot brought it back. Just pull the plug for two minutes.

Simplistic, but these are desperate times.

(Also, I have never seen a reference to generation 1 receiver problems with 2-1.)

Originally posted by wjbjr
Rocky--(Also, I have never seen a reference to generation 1 receiver problems with 2-1.) wjbjr - I agree with your statement above. I was just speculating about the problem since I can get both 5-1 and 2-1 while Rocky and others are not getting 5-1 and/or 2-1. Seems those with the Gen-1 receivers are the ones loosing the stations. I have a new OTA Samsung T351 and I've never lost either station.

Re: 1st-gen receivers, one of the things newer receivers can do is successfully decode data from a DTV signal even if the analog waveform that's carrying the digital signal is twisted and distorted, which might be the case if WPTV-DT's exciter is screwed-up. Older receivers like mine are pretty picky about that though.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Re: 1st-gen receivers, one of the things newer receivers can do is successfully decode data from a DTV signal even if the analog waveform that's carrying the digital signal is twisted and distorted, which might be the case if WPTV-DT's exciter is screwed-up. Older receivers like mine are pretty picky about that though.

The thing that people who are new to digital television may not realize is that they can still purchase a 1st generation receiver, brand new, off the shelf - and they generally do because they are less expensive. They don't realize that the hardware may be three years old and will not work with an abnormal DTV signal like WPTV-DT is putting out. It's kind of like a 3 year old cell phone - technologically retarded.

Question for WPTVDT (Dave McKinley). When can those of us with 1st generation HD receivers expect to be able to watch WPTVDT again. It's been more than two weeks since the signal has been disrupted because of "exciter issues".

Guys, I have the Zenith 1080 (arguably at least a 2nd generation-maybe 3rd) and I'm suffering the loss of 5-1 too. The 1080 was not available until 2002, so clearly it is newer than the original RCA, etc. In 2002, the 1080 was deemed "best in class", so I really do not buy the "1st generation" argument (at least not exclusively). Since some are apparently getting 5-1 and the rest of us are not, the signal must still be there.

I'm guessing 5-1 has just done (or not done) something again. This would just be round 4-5 of having 5-1 (somewhat stable) for a while and then having it come undone. Every incident before this one has been resolved by contacting the station directly (not hoping posts here get something done). Let's call or email 5-1 on Monday and ask them to fix the problem again. In this case, voices (direct) speak louder than words.

The folks at WPTV-DT were contacted two weeks ago and they are aware of the problem. The more people that contact them directly though may move it up in their priority list.

WPTV Contact Page (http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/wptv_contact_us/)

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
Since some are apparently getting 5-1 and the rest of us are not, the signal must still be there. Darryl - I can assure you that the signal is still there. I could get WPTV 5-1 both OTA and from Adelphia Cable all weekend. They didn't switch to HD for American Dreams again. But beside that, WPTV-DT was up and transmitting on 5-1 all weekend. The same can be said for PBS 2-1. They were broadcasting in HD all day Sunday.

I have a hughes e-86 and have not been able to receive for a few weeks.
Does anyone know when this will be fixed??

Originally posted by lmfgh
I have a hughes e-86 and have not been able to receive for a few weeks.
Does anyone know when this will be fixed??

Apparently you must go to the link below to get information about WPTV-DT channel 5-1 (UHF 55).

WPTV Contact Page (http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/wptv_contact_us/)

I have the Samsung 360 and I get drop outs on 5-1 all the time. All other WP stations are OK, no drop outs, so it's not the receiver causing the problem.

Originally posted by Carlb7
I have the Samsung 360 and I get drop outs on 5-1 all the time. All other WP stations are OK, no drop outs, so it's not the receiver causing the problem. Carlb7 - The problem is much worse than drop outs for 5-1. The Gen-1 receiver problem is preventing the reception of the 5-1 completely. A lot of folks have been without 5-1 for a couple of weeks now.

I have a gen 1 receiver - 5-1 came in OK for me last night. Not in HD as it was supposed to, but it did come in without dropouts for the 15 mins I had it on to see what all the hullabaloo was about.

Originally posted by lmfgh
I have a hughes e-86 and have not been able to receive for a few weeks.
Does anyone know when this will be fixed??

JeffBowser
I have a gen 1 receiver - 5-1 came in OK for me last night. Not in HD as it was supposed to, but it did come in without dropouts for the 15 mins I had it on to see what all the hullabaloo was about. lmfgh - you might check 5-1 again to see if their problem are fixed. See Jeff's comments above.

I'll try tonight and let you know.
Thanks,
Lynne

I have to admit,though, I don't regularly watch the OTA digital channels unless there is a program on in HD I want to see (Think CSI, football, a rare special...that's about it so far....) All other times, I watch my satellite feed.

No WPTVDT here tonight.................. This is a significant outage of a local HD signal for many earlier adopters.

I am picking up all OTA digital channels right now, including the elusive (for me) 2-1)

No. 5-1 still not working on my Mitsubishi HD-5 (E-86 clone). I tried 3 different antennas and still nothing. If they want me to I can go out to the transmitter and give it a good kick! :rolleyes:

WPTV-DT 5.1's signal is coming in here ok with my Sony HD-200 receiver, but all is NOT well. :mad: Their Audio Sync problem is back (for a change :rolleyes: ) and it's the worst I've ever seen/heard...about a 3-4 second delay and totally unwatchable. Just horrible! Something is definitely wrong again at WPTV-DT. Don't get me wrong though...from what I saw, they've had fairly good HD broadcasts for several weeks with the exception of their typical pixelization/screen freezes until this garbage. Their periodic fumbles never cease to amaze me. It's truly pathetic. :mad:

Originally posted by bsgoren
WPTV-DT 5.1's signal is coming in here ok with my Sony HD-200 receiver, but all is NOT well. :mad: Their Audio Sync problem is back (for a change :rolleyes: ) and it's the worst I've ever seen/heard...about a 3-4 second delay and totally unwatchable. Just horrible! Something is definitely wrong again at WPTV-DT. Don't get me wrong though...from what I saw, they've had fairly good HD broadcasts for several weeks with the exception of their typical pixelization/screen freezes until this garbage. Their periodic fumbles never cease to amaze me. It's truly pathetic. :mad: Bsgoren - Totally agree with your comments. However I believe the audio problem MAY (?) have been the NBC Network feed. After seeing the audio sync problem with 5-1 (they were broadcasting in HD), I switched over to 6-1 in Miami. Well 6-1 was not broadcasting in HD and their audio was OK. This is the FIRST time I've seen 6-1 not pickup the HD programming from the networks when it was available. It's always been 5-1 that would not switch to HD. The audio sync issue also affected 5-1's non-HD segments (commercials). The audio issue with 5-1 has always been with just their HD program and not with the non-HD feeds. Last night everything was totally gone. The good news is that the audio was back in sync this morning for the news programs at least.

I checked last night as well as I received an e-mail response for Dave McKinley telling me it should work now.

It's not working. (E-86 Hughes)

Man you guys were right about channel 5-1 last night. LAw and order looked like a cheap Japanese import, witht he audio lagging the video by 4 seconds. Luckily I switched over 6-1 to watch it, but it was not in HD on Channel 6, very strange! But 2-1 was on and looking good. Only thing was their program was an old film, so it looked pretty grainy. Let me tell you guys, nothing beats the quality of a live HD program like Leno, the colors behind his desk are awesome, you can see the suede pattern on the couches, and the screen over the mic has great detail.

now I know how many gray hairs leno has!

Leno ! Man, how do you guys manage to stay up so late at night during the week ?

Still getting nothing on 55-1/5-1.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Still getting nothing on 55-1/5-1. Dave - not missing much as the Audio problems were so bad that no one could stand to watch 5-1 last night. According to others, Dave McKinley has indicated that WPTV should be working now. But others are still not receiving it, so maybe it's NOT fixed!

i can get WTVJ-DT (NBC, Miami) perfectly so it's not botheing me much. Hope they can fix it soon for those who can't get TVJ, though.

On another topic: for those awaiting my review of the Winegard HDP-269 preamp with the SquareShooter antenna, the preamp should be here tomorrow and I'll direct you all to the review in the HDTV Hardware Forum ASAP.

Dave - I'm wondering why it took so long. I ordered a SqS with the HDP-269 and a rotor from the same place uou did last Wednesday and it arrived today. Can't wait for your review and this weekend so I can put the SqS
to use!

Originally posted by David McRoy
Still getting nothing on 55-1/5-1.

Ditto here at 8pm 3/17.

Yes, I saw the same thing tonighton 5-1. I was getting the audio from channel 6-1! Both are 5-1 and 6-1 are NBC stations, but 5-1 was doing some news show on the terrorist attacks, different from the 6-1 standard NBC broadcast tonight. But it looks like 5-1 routed the wrong audio stream to the transmitter.

Originally posted by Jeff Ostroff
Yes, I saw the same thing tonighton 5-1. I was getting the audio from channel 6-1! Both are 5-1 and 6-1 are NBC stations, but 5-1 was doing some news show on the terrorist attacks, different from the 6-1 standard NBC broadcast tonight. But it looks like 5-1 routed the wrong audio stream to the transmitter. Jeff - now that you mentioned it, that was exactly what they were doing (analog audio instead of the digital). That would explain the 3-4 second delay.

I received the following reply yesterday from Dave M regarding 5-1.
Lynne

Seems all boxes are now working, except E86 and clones. We are working to get our hands on a loaner box to do further testing. We had a problem last year involving these boxes, but that is not causing this recent problem. Hopefully we will resolve quickly.
Dave

I got the exact same reply.

You can find my review in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3547053#post3547053

Re: WPTV

Seems all boxes are now working, except E86 and clones. We are working to get our hands on a loaner box to do further testing. We had a problem last year involving these boxes, but that is not causing this recent problem. Hopefully we will resolve quickly.

I'm sure Scripps can afford it but... There are several E86's available on eBay at any given time! :D

I just checked again and 5-1 is still not working for me. I have a Zenith 1080 (not an e86 clone and not a 1st generation box). I have had little problem getting 5-1 since their last round of "arc fixes". However, I've had nothing on it for several weeks. Manual scan yields nothing. Besides e86 guys, am I the only one with this problem?

I am watching golf on 5-1 right now, seems OK to me.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
I just checked again and 5-1 is still not working for me. I have a Zenith 1080 (not an e86 clone and not a 1st generation box). I have had little problem getting 5-1 since their last round of "arc fixes". However, I've had nothing on it for several weeks. Manual scan yields nothing. Besides e86 guys, am I the only one with this problem?
Darryl - I have a Sammy STB and watched 5-1 last night and this morning. Their signal is strong but they had some problems with the picture freezing last night.

Originally posted by Kenni_o
Darryl - I have a Sammy STB and watched 5-1 last night and this morning. Their signal is strong but they had some problems with the picture freezing last night.

They always have problems with the picture freezing (and accompanying pixelization). :mad: At least they fixed their audio sync issue (again)...their audio was perfect last night.

Originally posted by bsgoren
They always have problems with the picture freezing (and accompanying pixelization). :mad: At least they fixed their audio sync issue (again)...their audio was perfect last night.

I also have a strong signal on WPTV-DT but I do notice occasional pixelization. I wonder what the cause could be?

At least you guys are getting a picture on WPTVDT - it's been over 3 weeks since I've been able to receive their programming on my Hughes E86. Unfortunately I don't have the antenna to pickup the Miami NBC affiliate.

Thanks guys. I'm still out of luck for 5-1. I've now tried resetting the box, manually scanning, and auto-scanning. 5-1 seems to be dead for me. And I don't have an e86 clone.

Apparently 5-1 problems are getting worse. I was watching the 5 o'clock news last night and lost the picture and sound completely (HD-200). The signal from this station is normally very strong for me, it barely registered.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
Thanks guys. I'm still out of luck for 5-1. I've now tried resetting the box, manually scanning, and auto-scanning. 5-1 seems to be dead for me. And I don't have an e86 clone.

As Tony Soprano would say:

"Channel 5-1 is dead to me!"

My E-86 clone agrees with Tony. ;)

I still can't get 5-1 on my RCA DTC 100 I think it has been a month. If they are stating that the problem is fixed then they need to check this board.

Drguava

Originally posted by drguava
I still can't get 5-1 on my RCA DTC 100 I think it has been a month. If they are stating that the problem is fixed then they need to check this board.

Drguava Here is a direct email contact at 5-1. David McKinley is the head engineer at the station and he has been really good at responding to my direct emails. Give him a try and see what you get.

DMMcKinley@Scripps.com

WPTV-DT was unwatchable last night. We had to watch Las Vegas on analog cable channel 3 due to WPTV-DT's picture going in and out. Since I live so close to their tower, their signal is usually pegged (although they typically have their pixelization/screen freeze problems), but last night, their signal kept jumping from very 'strong' to 'normal' to 'weak.'..lots of pixelization, screen freezes, and lost picture. Unwatchable. :mad:

How long have we all been complaining of WPTV-DT's problems? :mad:

BTW - Dave McKinley didn't reply to my last couple of e-mails I sent him...I must have pissed him off. Oh well, sorry, but I just call 'em like I see 'em and most will agree that their performance at WPTV-DT has been less than satisfactory since they went on air.

Also, Dave McRoy - what happened to the DD 5.1 audio for CSI Miami last night (it didn't register on my receiver as DD 5.1)? Did CBS not feed the DD 5.1. audio to WPEC-DT? Watching CSI Miami with a perfect HD picture but without DD 5.1 is a bit disappointing...I'm sure you agree. :)

bsgoren - you don't have cable or satellite to revert to when OTA digital goes bad ?

Originally posted by JeffBowser
bsgoren - you don't have cable or satellite to revert to when OTA digital goes bad ?

Yes, we have both D*TV (no locals though) and analog cable as I mentioned we had to watch Las Vegas on analog cable channel 3 (WPTV) last night. Of course, watching fuzzy, snowy cable tv just plain stinks after you get so used to watching HD and DT broadcasts. You look forward to watching 'your shows' ("my shows" as my wife says :D ) in HD and when the HD broadcast insn't stable or there's a bad audio sync problem, reverting to cable is a major disappointment. :(

Originally posted by bsgoren


Also, Dave McRoy - what happened to the DD 5.1 audio for CSI Miami last night (it didn't register on my receiver as DD 5.1)? Did CBS not feed the DD 5.1. audio to WPEC-DT? Watching CSI Miami with a perfect HD picture but without DD 5.1 is a bit disappointing...I'm sure you agree. :)

The only programming that CBS-HD has sent in DD 5.1 thus far are live events such as HD sports events and things like the Grammy Awards. They do have plans to do scripted primetime programming in DD 5.1 at some point down the road. But for now it's just Dolby Surround sent within DD 2.0.

Originally posted by David McRoy
The only programming that CBS-HD has sent in DD 5.1 thus far are live events such as HD sports events and things like the Grammy Awards. They do have plans to do scripted primetime programming in DD 5.1 at some point down the road. But for now it's just Dolby Surround sent within DD 2.0. David - I'd like to say THINKS for the great NCAA feed on Sunday. Both the picture and 5.1 audio was outstanding!

bsgoren - I agree with your asessment of cable vs digital OTA. Cable here really blows. I do get the locals on satellite - I mostly watch that except when I expect a good HD program on the locals. The frequent pixelation of 5-1 still drives me crazy.

Originally posted by JeffBowser
bsgoren - I agree with your asessment of cable vs digital OTA. Cable here really blows. I do get the locals on satellite - I mostly watch that except when I expect a good HD program on the locals. The frequent pixelation of 5-1 still drives me crazy.

Yes, the pixelization and screen freezes on WPTV-DT are very frustrating, especially when they actually have the audio sync on correctly and the video looks good. Then, all of a sudden...pixelization and a 2-second screen freeze. :mad: We don't have the local channels on satellite b/c our cable is included in our quarterly HOA dues, so paying for them 2x isn't worth it. In addition, since we got our 60" Sony GWIII, we don't mind watching a few shows and broadcasts in SD with the black bars (b/c there's no burn-in issue with LCD) on the OTA DT stations. But, it's the HD broadcasts on HBO-HD, Discovery-HD and OTA DT that I look forward to (when they're stable). I hope D*TV gets that 2nd bird up soon, so they can add Starz-HD and some other HD channels to their HD package. They need to really start moving on HD, since Voom and the cable co's have really jumped on the bandwagon in a hurry!

I have to also give some kudos to WPEC-DT for some very good, stable HD broadcasts! :)

I find it interesting that DirecTV management sit by, while cable is pushing for internet and High def digital channels.
They really think that consumers like many SD channels than less SD and more quality HD channels.

I don't understand why WPTVDT is not able to generate reliable HD transmission after over a year of being on the air.

Originally posted by lwhitefl
I don't understand why WPTVDT is not able to generate reliable HD transmission after over a year of being on the air.

It's either apathy or incompentence. As Donald Trump would say, "You're Fired!" (he doesn't have the trademark yet :D ). At any rate, it's truly pathetic that after 1 year of on-air DT broadcasts, WPTV-DT cannot get it right (not even on par with WPEC-DT and WPBF-DT). :mad:

Originally posted by bsgoren
It's either apathy or incompentence. As Donald Trump would say, "Your Fired!" (he doesn't have the trademark yet :D ). At any rate, it's truly pathetic that after 1 year of on-air DT broadcasts, WPTV-DT cannot get it right (not even on par with WPEC-DT and WPBF-DT). :mad:

How about "You're Fried" instead. It's probably more appropriate in this case anyway :D

Both WPTV-DT and WPBF-DT's HD broadcasts were very disappointing this evening, one more so than the other. 5.1's signal is still all over the place from 'good' to 'bad' with pixelization and dropouts every few seconds...unwatchable. I have not tried moving my SS antenna, but why should I when 5.1 usually comes in with a solid 'strong' signal without touching my antenna; plus, if I move it, I might mess up the signals from the other WPB DT stations. 25.1 is having a slight audio sync problem, although the picture is good. I hope WPTV-DT fixes whatever is plaguing them soon, but I'm not holding my breath.

WPTV DT. From the emails and calls I have recieved, DT, should stand for Disappointing Television. I hear the frustration. I also see this happening all over the country. We have been experiencing a transmitter issue, that is once again affecting 1st gen. boxes(E86, clones and DT 100). By Friday, we hope to have the service working on the earlier gen boxes. We have been fairly stable on newer boxes, not an excuse, just stating the obvious. When we find the definitive cause, I will post it. We have tested the voltage regulator, which was the culprit last time, but it is working fine. We are also working on delivering real PSIP and NBC is promising 5.1 audio, hopefully by end of year. NBC has also announced no further plans for NASCAR in HD for this year...which I find a major disappointment. I will try to be a little more attentive to this board, but please feel free to email me, good or bad, its the best way to stay informed.
Dave

Thanks for the update Dave.

Well something is happening as I am once again able to get WPTV-DT via my Toshiba DST-300 tonight. However the signal/picture is far from stable with large swings of strength and picture dropouts associated. At least it is being worked on now.

Hmmm interesting now the signal is back to the perfect 95-100% on my DST and the signal is stable.

WPTV Dave.

You stated that "...this is happening all over the country". Could you elaborate on that? Do you mean that the kind of equipment you purchased has an inherent flaw that causes the first generation receiver problem?

It sounds like your equipment vendor is not providing you with the support that you need to remedy this problem. Are the other broadcasters that use this equipment experiencing the same problem? Shouldn't management at WPTV go to the vendor that sold you this faulty equipment and demand that it be fixed? If management at WPTV continues to be blasé about this then you will continue to lose viewers.

I heard that ESPN will be broadcasting NASCAR in HD now.

It actually looks like WPTVDT is coming back to life in my E86 world - I'm beginning to get a picture again, although it's breaking up badly tonight and not watchable. I guess this is progress! What I can't understand is why stations like WPECDT have been able to produce a stable OTA digital transmission while other stations such as WPTVDT have not.

5-1 has returned for me too (non-e86 clone). However, as described by others it is pixelation-mania. It seems that it might be predictably repetitive though I haven't used the stopwatch yet. As Len implies, its been more than 1 year now- when do they get a stable signal comparable to the rest of the local stations?

Why don't we ask Dave M. for the vendor email addresses and blast them with complaints? They probably never see feedback from the end user. It might help Dave M. get some genuine support if the fault lies with the vendors.

We seem to frequently forget Dave's explanation of VHF vs UHF and atmospheric interference. What I got from that is we are looking at a combination of our location, these interferences, and the bands 5-1 is assigned to.

Since WPTV-DT is on channel 55 (remapped to 5-1) it's not susceptible to impulse noise interference the way we are, being on channel 13. 5-1's problem with some of our receivers is something on their end that I'm confident they will eventually be able to correct.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Since WPTV-DT is on channel 55 (remapped to 5-1) it's not susceptible to impulse noise interference the way we are, being on channel 13. 5-1's problem with some of our receivers is something on their end that I'm confident they will eventually be able to correct. David - do you happen to know if WPTV is using the same type of transmission equipment as you are using? Is there one major equipment supplier or several vendors? I know that 5-1 was the last major station to come on line with HD (May or June of 2003), but they seem to be having many more problems that the other stations (Miami and WPB) don't have.

Arrgh, I can never keep my stations straight.

Congrats to WPTVDT - I'm finally once again getting a stable digital picture tonight. Please keep it going this time.

We're using different gear from different manufacturers.

It's back. Thank you, WPTV (Hughes E-86)
Lynne

RCA DTC 100 still no reception on this station.

Dr Guava

WPTV DT 55-1 is working now on my Mitsubishi HD-5 (E86 clone). At first there was steady pixelation but that seems to have gone away today.

"The Good, the Bad (and the Ugly)"...

For a brief few minutes I flipped to WPTV-DT's HD broadcast of 'A Knight's Tale,' I almost thought I was watching another HD channel like HDNet Movies, Discovery-HD or HBO-HD. It was one of the sharpest, highest quality 1080i HD movie pictures I've seen; it looked like it was shot with HD cameras & no upconversion from film was done (which although possible, I doubt was the case). It seemed twice as sharp as all the other upconverted HD movie broadcasts I've seen. In addition, their audio was dead-on in sync with the video. However, there were the typical pixelization and screen freezes which ruined it. After I saw that, I shut it off (beside the fact that I wasn't really interested in the movie). :)

I'm glad Dave and his team at WPTV-DT have fixed their transmitter issues for you folks with 1st gen. receivers, but I know all of us wish to see HD on WPTV-DT without the constant pixelization and screen freezes. So, Dave - kudos to you and your team for addressing your issues there and getting back on the right track! However, I hope that eliminating the continuous pixelization (with screen freezes) might be next on your priority list. Thank you.

Lookin' for a little help from the locals. Live in a townhouse community in Royal Palm Beach. I don't expect a lot of trouble from the "condo commandos" but I have to submit a plan to the arch. board before I can install a sat system. Therein my problem. I know absolutely nothing about the physical means of installing the dish, getting cable to the STB, etc. (Edit: Well, that's not entirely true. I've done a ton of reading and have several ideas - but I need a pro to confirm the ideas will work).

At this point I haven't decided on the provider although I'm leaning to Voom. I am virtually postive I have found a location where I can get the Voom (and E* HD) and "probably" the other sats for E* and D*. It is adjacent to my patio screening. I don't know if I can attach (somehow) to the patio screening, or if I need to do a pole-type mount, etc. I need to confirm this location will pick up all sats, or which one's it won't. There could be some issues with trees.

In other words, I need a competent installer to come out for a site survey to determine feasibility of all issues involved in the physical install of the system. I am more than willing to pay for this survey. I have contacted the Ft. Lauderdale company that has the Voom install contract. They promised they would set it up - never heard from them again. I've contacted a couple other companies with the same request and a willingness to pay. They also promised to set it up - never heard from them again.

Can anyone out there help me with a contact for a quality installer that will take the time (and get paid for it) to help me out so I can go forward with this project?

Thanks for any help.:confused:

Originally posted by bsgoren
"The Good, the Bad (and the Ugly)"...

For a brief few minutes I flipped to WPTV-DT's HD broadcast of 'A Knight's Tale,' I almost thought I was watching another HD channel like HDNet Movies, Discovery-HD or HBO-HD. It was one of the sharpest, highest quality 1080i HD movie pictures I've seen; it looked like it was shot with HD cameras & no upconversion from film was done (which although possible, I doubt was the case). It seemed twice as sharp as all the other upconverted HD movie broadcasts I've seen. In addition, their audio was dead-on in sync with the video. However, there were the typical pixelization and screen freezes which ruined it. After I saw that, I shut it off (beside the fact that I wasn't really interested in the movie). :)

I watched the Players Championship today on WPTVDT - the non HD digital video was very stable throughout the broadcast. The audio was out of sync however. I didn't watch the movie Saturday night so I don't know if there was video pixelization problems during that broadcast.

ricksm3,

I would contact Voom via telephone or through their website so they can set you up for a site survey and installation. Just explain your situation to them, that you have to get a site survey and a plan to show your architectural board before installation.

Go to www.voom.com , or go to Sears...they sell the Voom service.

Good luck, and let us know if it all works out.

Re: WPTV-DT,

I watched SNL Saturday night with no problems except that lip sync was still off.

Were the problems with Law & Order: CI last night NBC or WPTV (or me)? I was so tired I didn't thing to check WTVJ! It got better, but started off with lots of macroblocking and then switched to SD.

Originally posted by David McRoy
ricksm3,

I would contact Voom via telephone or through their website so they can set you up for a site survey and installation. Just explain your situation to them, that you have to get a site survey and a plan to show your architectural board before installation.

Go to www.voom.com , or go to Sears...they sell the Voom service.

Good luck, and let us know if it all works out.

Thanks but already tried that. They want you to sign up for an install, ship the box and dish, etc. before they will go forward. At least that was the attitude of the CSR. No complaints though - very friendly, etc. Since I already know exactly who does Voom installs here, I went straight to the horse's mouth and got nowhere. Since I'm not positive I'm gonna go with Voom, any competent E* or D* installer could do what I need done - positive locate on the sats and advice on running cable and dish mount. Guess I'll just have to keep pounding the yellow pages until I find someone that wants to make some easy money.

Guess I should add that Sears is positively useless. They know absolutely nothing about Voom, or about anything else for that matter. Been in there twice. First time the "electronics" specialist had to complete a fifteen minute vacuum cleaner sale before she could help me. She thought they might have a brochure but wasn't sure if they did, or where it was (even though it was over on the wall). Second time the gentleman knew where the brochure was located. Thought they had sold to one other guy but wasn't sure. Knew nothing else - just said you have to go through Voom. Voom is trying to go up-market with their offering - seeking to attract the HD crowd. Why they would associate with Sears is beyond me. My sad story with Sears is repeated every day all over the country.

ricksm3

Not sure about Voom or E*, but D* receivers calculate the azimuth and alt that you must point the antenna. If you need D* info I'll pass it along. Palm City info should be close enough to estimate where to point the dish.

If you call a local DSS installer they should be able to come out and give you a "site survey" for any (or all) service(s) that you require. It usually costs around $50.

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
ricksm3

Not sure about Voom or E*, but D* receivers calculate the azimuth and alt that you must point the antenna. If you need D* info I'll pass it along. Palm City info should be close enough to estimate where to point the dish.


Thanks but I already know that for my zip. What I don't know for sure is how to get my visual down to such a fine point that I'm sure the trees aren't gonna be a problem. Too close for an inaccurate eyeball. Also, since I live in a townhouse, I'm restricted to "exclusive use" areas. I can't just slap the thing on the "best" wall. I also can't just drill the easiest hole in the wall. I need a pro with equipment to lock the sat and to offer a professional opinion on a realistic installation that will pass muster with the condo commandos.

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
If you call a local DSS installer they should be able to come out and give you a "site survey" for any (or all) service(s) that you require. It usually costs around $50.

That's exactly what I've tried to do. They all just blow me off. Take my name and number and promise to call back with a time. Never hear from them again. Must be the installation business is so lucrative, they don't need anything else. Looks like I should change my job.:eek:

Much better HD picture on WPTV-DT this evening. 'Las Vegas' looked great with perfect audio sync; just a few minor screen freezes with some slight pixelization, but nothing like we've been seeing on 5.1 the past several months. Even the signal remained stable -- basically stayed in one spot in the good range for me. I wonder what Dave and his engineers did differently?

Did they just tweak their current equipment and/or transmissions? Did they install new equipment they say may have been faulty? It's all so strange. I mean one night, it's just horrible and unwatchable, and the next, it's just about perfect...and it's not about bizarre atmospheric conditions or anomalies either. :D

There appears to be definite concrete equipment type issues which have plagued WPTV-DT, but hopefully now, they're truly on the right track to near perfect, stable, high-quality HD broadcasts...wow, wouldn't that be nice. :)

Check out this report from another AVS Forum thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385151

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
Check out this report from another AVS Forum thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=385151

Great new thread, and that guy's post from the show was very informative. Thanks. :)

I didn't see this in the thread so I'll mention it: guide data is finally available for 6-1 WTVJ-DT from DirecTV. Sheesh - it took them long enough! :D

Originally posted by bsgoren
There appears to be definite concrete equipment type issues which have plagued WPTV-DT, but hopefully now, they're truly on the right track to near perfect, stable, high-quality HD broadcasts...wow, wouldn't that be nice. :) I don't know if you saw David's response regarding equipment vendors between WPEC and WPTV but here it is:

We're using different gear from different manufacturers.


__________________
HiDefDave
WPEC-DT

Perhaps WPTV-DT got some bum equipment and are paying the price now. Maybe they should have looked into the equipment vendor's from the Miami and other on-the-air stations before they jumped into their equipment. They sure seem to have more problems than any of the other stations that are on the air.

Perhaps WPTV-DT got some bum equipment and are paying the price now. Maybe they should have looked into the equipment vendor's from the Miami and other on-the-air stations before they jumped into their equipment. They sure seem to have more problems than any of the other stations that are on the air.

Statistically, it looks like the federally mandated over-the-air DT broadcasting was the wrong idea. People do not want to go back to antennas after being used to cable and DSS for so many years. Now that millions of HDTV's are being sold, cable companies and DSS broadcasters are offering more HD content, including local affiliates. So what advantage is there to local broadcasters providing OTA-DT other than they will eventually be able to sell their analog bandwidth (probably for mobile data use)? That is why the year 2014 is now being thrown around as when the US goes 100 percent digital.

Any other thoughts on this?

2012 is what I've been seeing tossed around as late as yesterday. While Congress would like to get their hands on the old spectrum as quickly as possible so that it can be auctioned off, they fear a huge constituent backlash if someone's ability to watch OTA (analog) TV suddenly disappears with no alternate method of reception in place.

The conventional wisdom inside the broadcast TV industry is that the main function of an over-the-air TV transmitter and antenna is to deliver signals to cable and DBS headends. So, yes, as time progresses we will be seeing local H/DTV become routinely available via cable and DBS.

Well, I know you're all just teetering on the edge of your seats waiting for the next episode on my sat site survey saga. (Need a sarcasm emoticon here).

After numerous phone calls, and several weeks of waiting, two, yes TWO, installers finally called me back. And within five minutes of each other.

To make a long, boring, story short - 100% lock on all sats. Now I just need to decide on Voom, E* or D*. That's not the biggest problem - waiting for the new Sammy HLP's is killing me. But, I won't ask for your help on that.

ricksm, congratulations. For what its worth, I'm giving up on D* in 2 weeks and switching to Voom. I've been loyal to D from the very beginning (1994), but I'm tired of waiting for more HD when a competitor seems to be adding more all of the time. Voom's new offer makes it a very low-risk proposition. If you decide on D* and want a killer low price on a Zenith 1080 D* reciever, pm me. I love D*- and for certain offerings- you can't get them anywhere else, but I want HD more than I want access to things like Sunday ticket, ESPN full court, etc.

Relative to Electric Pickle's comments about the over-the-air mandate, I somewhat agree. Recall however that there was a good amount of resistance to satt dishes too when D* first hit back in 1994. I remember a "little old lady" neighbor calling my D* dish an "ugly gray wok" (and that was the 18” dish).

I think the big issue against VHF or UHF antennas is size- associated with a perceived "ugliness" factor. But in exchange for some ugliness, we can get nearest to the theoretical maximums of HD signal quality (at no monthly fee). We will not get that through cable or satt sources (because compression pressures will probably always be on those providers). If HD is primarily about picture quality, and best picture quality can ultimately be served with an ugly thing attached to the home, antennas have a place.

I think another issue about these antennas is that it feels like we are taking a step back to old technology. It does seem somewhat wacko that the best source for HD comes via a technology that has been around for decades. It probably would be equivalent to having to physically crank a cd player to get the disc spinning (think phonograph).

I agree that the mandates could have (perhaps SHOULD HAVE) done a better job of getting hard (tangible) commitments from the other providers to "grease the wheels" of the transition. If I could go back in time and advise the group in charge of this, I would be encouraging them to verify the commitment of those selling them on the idea that "America needs to go HD". Nothing would verify how serious these salesperople were about selling the concept than hard commitments to deadlines (with costs and fines tied to those deadlines)

Also, an HD-DVD standard should have been established to insure a method of loading the marketplace with a secure medium for HD content. Perhaps back then the concept of an HD-DVD might have been too far out, but LDs were around and a double layer 8” laser disc in all digital could have been the spec if they got too much scoff at the HD-DVD concept. In some ways I wish the HD standard was an 8” dual layer disc (think about the storage capacity!), but that’s another story.

Of course its easy to see issues in hindsight.

It might be worth pointing out that people thought VHF antennas were ugly back in the 50's too. They probably didn't want to put them on their houses or see them on other people houses either. But they got over it. Why? Because what that ugly piece of technology got for them was a very compelling reward. Can HD be as compelling? I don't know. I think the difference is that back then it was an entirely new thing (moving pictures & sound in your own home). HD seems like it is just better moving pictures & sound in your own home.

The benefit is not as tangibly obvious as it was back in the early days of television. People are still getting moving pictures with sound whether they go HD or not. That ugly antenna will not get them more channels than they get from other sources. And for some, the picture improvement is just not that big of a deal (dare I say it to this crowd- SD is still watchable and enjoyable for the masses).

Eventually, quality can win out. CDs did replace vinyl records for the crowd. But this doesn’t always work. SACD/DVD-Audio is not exactly working wonders against the CD base. With music, I think the average ear has some difficulty recognizing the difference. Fortunately, HDTV is visually superior to SD for pretty much any set of eyes. It’s just a matter of time before the crowd catches on. Now can they discern the difference between over the air vs. cable/satt HD locals? That might be CD vs. DVD-audio again. When it comes to that debate it might really be the free signals vs. a digital tier price duking it out. And that cost getting pitted against attaching an ugly thing to the house for that subtle difference in picture quality.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
ricksm, congratulations. For what its worth, I'm giving up on D* in 2 weeks and switching to Voom. I've been loyal to D from the very beginning (1994), but I'm tired of waiting for more HD when a competitor seems to be adding more all of the time. Voom's new offer makes it a very low-risk proposition. If you decide on D* and want a killer low price on a Zenith 1080 D* reciever, pm me. I love D*- and for certain offerings- you can't get them anywhere else, but I want HD more than I want access to things like Sunday ticket, ESPN full court, etc.

Appreciate the offer, but I'm pretty sure I'll go with Voom. It's a no lose offer. I will continue to have cable (part of the Assoc. fees so why get rid of it) so I'm simply looking to augment with HD content. No one comes close to Voom on that. The only two things I desperately want for them that they don't currently have is the PVR and ESPN HD. Word is that ESPN is basically a done deal but I need to see it to believe it. (Yeah, I know a fair amount of ESPN is just stretched garbage, but they are adding more and more all of the time). The PVR isn't expected until much later this year.