West Palm Beach, FL - HDTV [Text View] - Page 4

ElectricPickle

01-01-03, 11:13 AM

By Deborah D. McAdams
Digital Television
The big question for 2003 is what happens to the stations that continue to miss their on-air deadline, says Gary Arlen, president of Bethesda, MD-based Arlen Communications. “What if a lot of them just say, forget it. I’m not going to build a transmitter in my town. They’ll [the FCC] take away his license, but it won’t be for years.”

Around 800 stations missed their first DTV deadline last May. Most, even the 70 or so that were technically “denied,” were granted six-month extensions. As of mid-November, 564 stations had requested a second extension for their DTV build-out. Of those, 62 had been granted.

A spokeswoman for the FCC said the next level of enforcement after a technical denial is a fine. After that, if the offending station still doesn’t get a signal on, it could have its DTV license yanked. “That will have to be evaluated on a station-by-station basis,” said the spokeswoman.

Complicating enforcement is the fact that 292 PBS and other non-commercial stations not already on the air with a DTV signal are due to have one up in five months. If public stations are not subjected to the same rigor as commercial stations, a hue and cry will ensue. On the other hand, if the FCC deprives Bunker Hill, KS of public television, ditto on the hue and cry. (The Civil War didn’t start in Virginia, my friend.)

Elsewhere on the digital front, 2003 is shaping up to be the year cable plug & play sets hit the market. Meanwhile, broadcasters will be transmitting low-power digital signals to televisions that require tuners but not reception. They’ll continue to rely on analog and must-carry instead of measuring public temperament for free, over-the-air, multichannel television. If ever there was a time to stop whining and construct the 10-year plan, it’s now.

Bottom Line: DTV signals will not generate revenue in 2003, but neither will the FCC go away.

www.digitaltelevision.com (http://www.digitaltelevision.com )

lwhitefl

01-01-03, 11:37 AM

Both CBS and ABC WPB digital stations are reported by TitanTV as broadcasting the Rose Bowl Parade in HD. But both are displaying a 4:3 picture right now. Also for some reason this morning I'm getting a much more stable picture on WPEC-DT (digital signal strength 44 - 51). I installed a CM 3042 amplifier on the RG-6 line from my attic antenna. The signal strength isn't any higher with the amp, but it doesn't appear to drop as low as without the amp. I'm wondering if HiDefDave can shed any light on the current situation with regard to WPEC-DT.

David McRoy

01-01-03, 02:55 PM

Hi, Len and Happy New Year, everyone!

I don't believe that CBS covered the Rosebowl Parade in HD. TitanTV is sometimes subject to error. If you read this thread, it appears that only a handful of independent stations around the country had an HD feed of the parade: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207373

We should have received the "correct" replacement board by tomorrow. As soon as it's installed I'll let you all know. Hopefully this will correct the remaining problems with pixelation, etc. We shall see.

Audio is a separate matter. We'll address lip sync (which is still variable) as well as adjusting our Dolby Digital encoder to fine-tune how it instructs your home decoders to recognize and correctly process 2-channel stereo, Dolby Surround and, when it eventually becomes available from CBS, Dolby Digital 5.1. Right now I can only decode WPEC-DT's audio stream with my Dolby Digital decoder's ProLogic decoder when we're passing a ProLogic mix via DD 2.0 from CBS. When we're broadcasting a 2-channel stereo program (such as local news...actually everything besides CBS HD programs), my ProLogic decoder is disabled...I just get front left and right. This isn't right and we will correct it so that all of our home ProLogic decoders will always be functional.

On a somewhat related note, I'm shopping for a new A/V controller/processor for use at home, one that will support Dolby ProLogic II decoding and that will also support component HD video switching. This would replace the somewhat cumbersome "kluge" of motley gear I'm currently using.;)

ElectricPickle

01-01-03, 05:57 PM

Happy New Year HiDefDave. Thanks for the update. I might suggest the Home Theater Master MX-700 remote control to take care of your "kluge". It controls 16 devices, is 100 percent computer programmable, and can be held in one hand. Once I had it learn all of my components I created macros that perform all of the switching. Like press the DVD button and the Mits TV turns on and switches to the DVD input, the DVD player turns on and goes to title, the surround sound turns on and switches to the DVD input, and the remote changes to the DVD control page. It's a tweakers dream and would probably be cheaper than buying a new A/V system. They are pretty expensive though. Even through the group buy.

ANSEK

01-01-03, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by David McRoy

On a somewhat related note, I'm shopping for a new A/V controller/processor for use at home, one that will support Dolby ProLogic II decoding and that will also support component HD video switching. This would replace the somewhat cumbersome "kluge" of motley gear I'm currently using.;)

Dave,

If you are looking for a new receiver I would recommend the Denon AVR3803. This unit will allow you to connect up to fix digital audio devices and it has 2 component video inputs and on component output. The great thing about the component video inputs in that they support 100Mhz more than enough for 1080i or 720p content. It will also transcode composite and S-Video inputs to the component outputs something you only find in units twice the price of this unit. You should stop by Brandsmart on the way home one day and check it out. Just ignore everything the sales people tell you because they are clueless.

Here is a link to the specs sheet.

Here is a link to the specs sheet (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/AVR38033v2.pdf)

David McRoy

01-01-03, 06:51 PM

Thanks, ElecticPickle and ANSEK,

I already have a Philips Pronto universal remote:

http://www.pronto.philips.com/index.cfm?id=271

Yes, it's a European-spec version but it works fine with everything that I've tried to use it with here at home.

I already have separate power amps feeding my all-Magnepan plus Velodyne subwoofer system (see my Profile for system configuration) so I'm looking at this http://www.atlantictechnology.com/system_P-2000.htm AV processor along with this one http://www.sherbourn.com/products/PT-7000.html and this one: http://www.outlawaudio.com//products/950.html .

To use a DVD-audio/SACD player with them (someday) I'd also need to either add subwoofers to my surround speakers and modify the surround Maggies' crossover networks for full-range operation along with the subs or buy one of these http://www.outlawaudio.com//products/icbm.html in addition to one of the three units listed in the second paragraph for proper DVD-audio/SACD player outboard bass managment.

According to this website: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/clone_prepros.php the Atlantic Technology, Outlaw and Sherbourn units are clones except that the Sherbourn has received a bit of high-end audio tweaking which may or may not be worth the added cost. (The Outlaw is also decidedly uglier than the other two. ;) )

wdb44

01-01-03, 09:24 PM

"Denon AVR3803. This unit will allow you to connect up to fix digital audio devices and it has 2 component video inputs and on component output. The great thing about the component video inputs in that they support 100Mhz more than enough for 1080i or 720p content."

I have two progressive scan components. Do you know if progressive scan would be passed in and out via the component ports of the 3803?

Bighitter

01-02-03, 05:59 AM

480P will be passed without problem. I am using an H/K AVR-520 and love it though there are only 2 component inputs rated at 30Mhz. I will just get a seperate switcher later down the road.

David McRoy

01-02-03, 08:15 AM

Yes, 720p should pass okay, as long as the bandpass is flat out to 45 MHz or so.

By the way, join me in celebrating the (North American) Palendromic Second this afternoon at precisely 4:05:06 p.m., when the date and Easter Stanard Time will be 01/02/03/04/05/06 !;) (One already happened this morning at 4:05:06 a. m. which I celebrated with a Diet Coke while getting ready for work.)

Cheers!

ElectricPickle

01-02-03, 08:24 AM

Cheers Dave (toasting with a nice vanilla Coke).

aviators99

01-02-03, 05:12 PM

I wish I had seen that in time...but I called my friend in California so that at least he can still enjoy it.

lmfgh

01-02-03, 09:02 PM

Anyone in the west Boynton area having trouble locking in a signal for WPBF - ABC which is 25-1, channel 16??
I have tried with the rs double bowtie and the silver sensor and have tried the antennas in all directions. I get wpec and wflx with no problem .

Also, I'm not able to get wpec tonignt at all. It's not even there when I redo scan.

Thanks,
Lynne

jeffva

01-03-03, 01:13 AM

I just recently added the zenith 520 HD receiver to my Pioneer 643 and radioshack indoor antenna. I have a question I hope someone can answer for me. I have been trying to watch the BCS college bowl games in 16:9 on ABC's channel 25-1, but I can only get the broadcast in 4:3 with the side bars. But when I turn to analog off the antenna or directv's broadcast, I get the signal in 16:9. Has anyone been able to get the signal and display it on their widescreen tv in 16:9. I'm trying to figure out if the problem is on my end or if the local ABC affiliate is transmitting the digital signal in 4:3. Any help would be much appreciated.

Jeff

ANSEK

01-03-03, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by lmfgh
Anyone in the west Boynton area having trouble locking in a signal for WPBF - ABC which is 25-1, channel 16??
I have tried with the rs double bowtie and the silver sensor and have tried the antennas in all directions. I get wpec and wflx with no problem .

Also, I'm not able to get wpec tonignt at all. It's not even there when I redo scan.

Thanks,
Lynne

I am getting WPBF fine with my HD200 and Silver Senor and RS Double Bow-tie. I get a signal strength of about 75 on WPBF.

WPEC is my strongest station. I have signal strength of about 90. I have both antenna sitting in my attic with the Silver Senor pointed south and the double bow-tie pointed north.

ANSEK

01-03-03, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by jeffva
I just recently added the zenith 520 HD receiver to my Pioneer 643 and radioshack indoor antenna. I have a question I hope someone can answer for me. I have been trying to watch the BCS college bowl games in 16:9 on ABC's channel 25-1, but I can only get the broadcast in 4:3 with the side bars. But when I turn to analog off the antenna or directv's broadcast, I get the signal in 16:9. Has anyone been able to get the signal and display it on their widescreen tv in 16:9. I'm trying to figure out if the problem is on my end or if the local ABC affiliate is transmitting the digital signal in 4:3. Any help would be much appreciated.

Jeff

Jeff,

It sounds to me like your TV is stretching the 4:3 image to fit in the 16:9 screen. WPBF broadcast SD as 720p image (16:9) with black bars so your TV thinks it is receiving a true 16:9 image and does not need to stretch it.

What I recommend you do is when WPBF is not broadcasting true 720p content, change the format on your SAT520 to "480p" and change your Wide Mode to "Cropped". This will fill your screen with the image and get rid of the little black bars on the sides. When WPBF is broadcasting 720p or when you switch to a station that is broadcasting "1080i" or "720p" or "480p Wide" You simply change your Format to "Variable 1" or "Variable 2" or Variable 3" or "1080i" or "720p" depending on your TV and personal preference. It can seen like a hassle but it takes less that 5 second to do and it makes watching SD programing on digital station more enjoyable.

George33027

01-03-03, 10:24 AM

Are there any college football games (or any NFL) in High Def lately?

David McRoy

01-03-03, 10:35 AM

Here's the HDTV NFL Playoffs schedule:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=204614

lwhitefl

01-03-03, 11:01 AM

Dave - have you installed the "replacement" board yet. My picture from WPEC-DT is still pixelating and freezing badly during the evening hours. For some reason it appears to be better during the daytime hours.

acesk8er

01-04-03, 08:48 AM

In my limited testing of ATSC reception with my newly acquired Hughes E-86 I have found that VHF ATSC stations are more suceptible to RFI from computers and household appliances than UHF ATSC stations, especially when using an indoor antenna (mostly Radio Shack Double Bow Tie for UHF and VHF; I also tried a ch. 8 ~ 9 dipole for VHF). This RFI suceptibility in some cases results in more annoying interference effects to digital reception that you would otherwise ignore in analog reception.

If you can see interference to analog TV reception than in all likelyhood the adjacent channel will also be affected. VHF channels 12 and 13 are a good example - without turning off the offending microprocessor-based device I can see wavy lines on VHF analog 12 and I get freezing/pixellation on VHF digital 13 even though the Hughes' signal strengh bar is at 58 or so. When I turn off the interfering device analog reception clears up, the freezing/pixellation goes away on digital reception, and the Hughes' signal strength bar shoots up to 78. (All with RS DBT.) This particular device also affects whether I can get any digital reception of channels 8 and 9 with the dipole, which has to be outdoors to get sufficient signal strength from those stations.

Impulse noise seems to be more of a problem for ATSC digital reception than it is for analog NTSC reception. The worst offenders are the dishwasher and the washing machine. I get 1 ~ 2 second freezing and audio muting on ATSC channels 18 and 22 every time a solenoid/relay clicks in one of them while the effect on analog reception in this channel/frequency range is just a minor static spike in the picture and no effect on sound. (In my opinion this is a major shortcoming of the ATSC standard. That is, no sound even though video is bad/non-existent/unwatchable.)

Your best bet for avoiding these "self interference" problems is to use an outdoor antenna. If you have an interference problem you can find it by turning appliances and devices off one at a time (computers, anything with a switching power supply, anything with a dimmer) until you find the source. Even so you may still be affected by interference generated by something in a neighbor's house or even something miles away.

(Minor edits in a vain attempt to correct grammar. Added comment about ATSC standard...)

lambu

01-05-03, 09:01 AM

After unsuccessfully trying various indoor antennas, I am planning to get
an outdoor antenna (in order to get WPBF (ABC)). Please recommend me
the right antenna model and antenna installer in Lake worth area.

Thanks,
Lambu

ANSEK

01-05-03, 01:14 PM

Dave,

I have been comparing the picture quality of WPEC vs. WFOR. I have noticed that WFOR appears to be brighter and sharper. Do you notice the same things? If so is this caused by the defective card?

Bighitter

01-05-03, 02:18 PM

I am wondering if they put in the replacement already. Towards the end of the week I started recieving a pretty steady 100% signal where before it was in the 70s. Nothing on my end has changed.

lwhitefl

01-05-03, 03:29 PM

Yesterday I moved my Gemini A20 UHF/VHF antenna from the north center of my attic to the SE corner of my attic within 10 feet of the roof board. Even with fairly long runs of RG-6 and a two way splitter, I'm now getting a solid digital signal (84 - 96) on WPEC-DT (13-1) with only occasional pixelization and no picture freezing. I am still experiencing lip sync problems with WPEC-DT. But overall I'm satisfied with the OTA WPB signal and I'm looking forward to watching the AFC divisional playoffs and championship game in HD on WPEC-DT.

ANSEK

01-05-03, 04:59 PM

I am noticing terrible combing on WFLX's broadcast of the Giant and 49ers. I guess that is what I should expect from FOX.

greenknight

01-05-03, 05:33 PM

Combing is what, exactly? Thanks

ANSEK

01-05-03, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by greenknight
Combing is what, exactly? Thanks

Combing is when moving objects appear jagged instead of smooth. It is sometimes called "feathering". It is usually visible in low definition interlaced images. It can also be notice in low quality progressive scan images (which is what FOX is peddling to the public as HD).

Below is an example of "combing".

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/images/dvd-benchmark-part-5-tomato-feathering.gif

George33027

01-06-03, 12:40 AM

Too bad no wild card games in HD.

David McRoy

01-06-03, 10:00 AM

ANSEK,

We have backed off on the amount of detail in our HD picture temporarily to minimize pixelation and freezes until we can get our encoder to work properly. I would anticipate that when everything is right we'll b as sharp if not sharper than WFOR.

Incidently, if anyone is getting anything worse than occasional pixelation and freezes, some of what you are experiencing may be due to reception conditions beyond our control (such as a need for "more antenna" on your end in some cases. I personally see something go wrong about once every five minutes or so, give or take. Others are experiencing fewer errors than that on different receivers.) In any event, once we are convince that we have everything nailed-down on our end I will inform you and ask for observations.

3ems

01-06-03, 11:07 AM

It's been some time since I read this thread and just found out that I've missed a lot. I had no idea that 12.1 and 25.1 existed so tomorrow I'll scan for them. I'm on Lawerence between Gateway and Hypoluxo.

I'm getting 2.1, 4.1, 7.1, 10.1 and a few others from Miami, but 29.1 from WPB freezes a lot. I was wondering if I should try to realign my antenna and could this cause me to lose some of my Miami channels?

I recently upgrade to a Sony VPL HS10 front projector and strangely it will not display 7.1. Only the left half of the picture is displayed. The Sony KP53HS10 rp correctly displays it.

Thanks Guys.

Michael

Venkat

01-06-03, 12:07 PM

One thing is for sure. channel12 Closd Captioning works better than channel4.

George33027

01-06-03, 01:23 PM

Dave;
Are you at full power ?

lambu

01-06-03, 01:44 PM

Can somebody point me to a prof. antenna installer (either attic or ourdoor)
in Lake Worth area? I don't want to miss SuperBowl in HD. Please help!

Lambu

Venkat

01-06-03, 04:26 PM

I would highly recommend trying out an indoor Antenna first before spending $$ on OutDoor Antenna/Installers.

2-1 (PBS From Miami)
4-1, 12-1 (CBS From Miami and WPB) Don't Miss the Divisional Playoffs in HD!
16-1 (ABC From WPB)
29-1 (Fox From WPB)
33-1, 34-1 (UPN From Miami and WPB)
39-1 (WB From Miami)
All the Spanish Channels (23-1, 51-1, 69-1)

I don't get Channel 7 (WSVN From Miami that only does 480i) and Channel 10 (ABC From Miami) .

lwhitefl

01-06-03, 04:59 PM

There's an interesting article in Stereophile Guide to Home Theatre addressing the DTV receiver issues at: http://www.guidetohometheater.com/shownews.cgi?1466
Unfortunately the article doesn't give any information on retailers although you might try contacting dealers that carry the brand mentioned.

David McRoy

01-07-03, 08:12 AM

George33027,

Yes, we are at full power.

3ems

01-07-03, 09:51 AM

I did a channel scan last night and did not pickup any of the other WPB channels. I guess I will have to realign my attenna tonight.

snook789

01-07-03, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by David McRoy
George33027,

Yes, we are at full power.

Dave, you are on VHF correct ?

Thanks

David McRoy

01-07-03, 11:00 AM

Yes...channel 13. Your receiver should remap our 1080i HD channel, 13-1 to 12-1 and our 480i SD channel, 13-2 should remap to 12-2.

Our website now has a section on WPEC-DT:

http://wpecnews12.com/wpecdt.shtml

ASUS

01-09-03, 12:09 AM

I live in Delray Beach and I'm thinking of buying a HD receiver. My goal is to receive the super bowl in HD without any problems, and to get DirecTV without problems. I am not much of a tweaker, so once it is set, I'll probably learn to live with it. I don't mind installing it however. I also don't want to have something obsolete in 6 months.

Can anybody tell me if the Samsung SIT-TS160 is good, or should I spend the extra dough and get the Sony SAT-HD200? As far as I know, these are the only two with DVI connectors that get OTA and DirecTV.

Does anybody recommend a specific antenna? I am skeptical of the cheapo units I see. It would be nice to get Miami and WPB.

My TV is a Sony Grand Wega and audio quality is important too.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

ASUS

3ems

01-09-03, 03:56 PM

Well after tweaking my antenna last night i can now get 29.1 without any breakups. Since I already get 2.1, 4.1 and 10.1 I won't try the other WPB channels yet.

Thanks.

George33027

01-09-03, 07:58 PM

Dave, also I assume your 13 is 24/7 ?

bob733

01-10-03, 07:43 AM

I can not stand it. I go to Antenna web and Titan TV, key in my address, and the web pages tell me I can receive the WPB stations (I live in Palm City, FL). I need an indoor antenna so I talk with (and read posts of) other people in my area. They tell me they are receiving transmissions (with various levels of success). Then, with a ray of hope, (and now on top of a mountain), I go to and ask TV people, RS dealers, CC people and they say no way, it just does not work with an indoor antenna. Now I am totally dejected, and have fallen from the mountain into the valley. Are there any installers in the Stuart, Palm City area that have had success and could possibly help me? I would pay for their time, as long as it is not an arm and a leg, and if the antenna route does not work, I could return the antenna. I have DirecTV, a Sony HD200, a Hitachi 65swx20b and can only get HDNET, HBO and Showtime in their version of HD. I really would like to take adavantage of OTA to make my viewing time much better. HHHeeellllllppppp

David McRoy

01-10-03, 08:13 AM

Yes, we are 24/7, George.

We have received a replacement for a piece of equipment that we suspect may be causing our pixelation and dropouts. I'll try to find out when it will be installed.

Robert, sorry you're having so many problems. I'll bet a good outdoor antenna will do the trick.

lwhitefl

01-10-03, 09:16 AM

Robert - I live just off south Mapp Road. I haven't found any business in Martin County that is very knowledgeable about OTA HD. A dealer told me a Radio Shack omni-directional attic antenna was working for several of their customers. That type of attic antenna was not strong enough for my location. I finally positioned a highly directional UHF/VHF antenna nearest the SE corner of my attic. I was finally able to get a strong digital signal from WPEC-DT which was the most difficult station to pickup.

My advice would be to buy the Channel Master 3220 UHF/VHF antenna ($100) from Lowe's and position it at 180 degrees as close to the roof line as possible in the SE corner of your attic. Since it's a pretty large antenna your attic will have to have a liberal amount of space when the antenna is fully opened. If that doesn't work, either take the antenna back to Lowe's or install the antenna outdoors above the roof line.

Joel Graffman

01-10-03, 02:53 PM

For bob733, you should get excellent reception from WPBF-DT and WTVX-DT with almost any indoor antenna as they transmit from a nearby tower in Martin County. I have been using a Radio Shack UHF yagi in my attic for about a month and the signal from both stations nearly pegs the meter on my HD200. This antenna is only about 3 feet long.

Today I finally got a chance to re-orient the yagi towards the South with the hope of receiving WFLX-DT. I thought I would get a signal as the WFLX OTA analog picture is fairly good with only a modest amount of noise. Unfortunately, I couldn't detect a digital signal. However, much to my surpise I am getting a good picture on WPEC-DT (12.1 and 12.2), low-normal range on the HD-200 signal indicator. This should not happen because my antenna is not suited for this frequency.

When I was a teenager, I used to install TV antennas. We used a signal meter calibrated in microvolts to determine orientation and required antenna height. In those days 100 microvolts was considered to adequate for a fair picture. I estimate WFLX analog is 80-100 microvolts and WPEC analog is only 30-40 microvolts. It is a mystery to me why I can receive WPEC and not WFLX digital broadcasts with the antenna I am using. Perhaps time will tell

BTW, my number is 221-7896 anyone would like to discuss this by phone.

ElectricPickle

01-10-03, 06:09 PM

Joel. Try WFLX 29-1 now. They do not broadcast during the day on weekdays. Why? I guess they are trying to save electricity. Who knows. I suspect that by 2006 they will be up full time.

David McRoy

01-10-03, 07:18 PM

Okay, guys, we think we've fixed the pixelation and dropout problems. Check us out.

We still have audio issues: lip sync (audio still leading video) and decoders are still being locked in 2-channel stereo when there's no Dolby Surround flag from a program but we'll fix that soon.

To reiterrate from a previous post: if you're still experiencing pixelation and dropouts now it's probably due to a reception problem at your end. (I only saw one error over three hours of viewing today and there was aircraft flying over at the time.)

hdtvis4me

01-11-03, 01:46 AM

Does anybody recommend a specific antenna? I am skeptical of the cheapo units I see. It would be nice to get Miami and WPB.

ASUS - I live just north of you and receive Palm Beach and Miami stations with no trouble. I recommend the Radio Shack 15-1862. It gives me excellent reception of channels 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 4-1, 12-1, 25-1, 29-1, 32-1, 34-1, 39-1, 23-1, and 69-1. Even though they stopped making them, you can still find them on ebay.

hdtvis4me

01-11-03, 01:50 AM

HiDefDave - Why is it that channel 4-1 broadcasts shows in 16 x 9 Widescreen when channel 12-1 shows the same program in 4:3?

lambu

01-11-03, 06:46 AM

Atlast, now I am able to receive the ABC and PBS digital broadcasts after
moving my RS indoor antenna to 2nd floor and running a long rg6 cable
to it. My question is, can I hook the antenna output to one of the Cable's outlet in upstairs and divide the signal at the receiving end (STB's OTA) by any means? Please help me as I have cables laying all around the place.

Thanks,
Srini

David McRoy

01-11-03, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by hdtvis4me
HiDefDave - Why is it that channel 4-1 broadcasts shows in 16 x 9 Widescreen when channel 12-1 shows the same program in 4:3?

On which program or programs did you see this happen?

David McRoy

01-11-03, 05:18 PM

Lip sync has been adjusted to match on the CBS HD feed. We'll have to see if it remains consistent when we're airing SD programming from our 480i to 1080i upcoverter as well.

Let us know what you think.

hdtvis4me

01-11-03, 05:23 PM

Dave - I I forgot the name of the show - next time I notice it I will post it here.

ANSEK

01-11-03, 08:05 PM

Dave,

You need to tell the people back at the station it is not a good idea to switch an HD broadcast to SD in order to display the results of the lottery.

ElectricPickle

01-11-03, 09:03 PM

yeah the "squeeze" at the beginning of a high definition program does not make very much sense. Leave the lottery results for the SD feed.

David. The Titan's-Steelers game was superb. Great job to everyone there at WPEC and CBS. The only artifacting was caused by something in the slowmo replay at the truck. It seems that you have fixed your pixelation problem.

Bighitter

01-11-03, 09:22 PM

Excellent feed of the game. It truely was a treat to view my first NFL game in HD. I went from an RS Double Bowtie on my entertainment center to the RS U75r UHF antenna ontop of my entertainment center and now I have moved it outside today. Ended up having more problems with it outside as I have apparently totally lost WPBF-DT with it outside. Will work on this tomorrow.

ANSEK

01-11-03, 09:45 PM

Is anybody having problems with the audio on WPBF's broadcast of "Enemy of the State"?

hdtvis4me

01-11-03, 10:26 PM

David - I have to say I was impressed with WPEC's broadcast of the game as well. I switched between WPEC and WFOR to compare and WPEC blew them away as far as audio goes. They were broadcasting 2 channel stereo where you guys were broadcasting true Dolby Digital 5.1. Sounded and looked awesome. I admit I am not a football fan at all, but my soon become one if your broadcasts continue to look and sound like this. Nothing is more annoying than watching WPBF-DT (25-1) and seeing the Dolby Digital 5.1 channels light up on my receiver and only 2 channels of audio is used. What's worse is that the vocals are not even sent to the center channel. And don't get me started on why "Enemy of the State" was in 4:3 instead of 16x9 widescreen. You guys at WPEC deserve a pat on the back - just keep more of these broadcasts coming :)

David McRoy

01-11-03, 10:27 PM

ANSEK and ElectricPickle,

Master Control "sends control" to the Studio Control Room for the Florida Lottery "push-back" (or "squeeze", if you prefer [we call it that sometimes, too]) at 8 p. m. each evening. The SCR is still standard-definition for now and this is currently the only way we can accomplish this.
Station managment monitors this thread and I'll follow through with them on your suggestion that we just stick with the direct CBS-HD feed until we can do the pushback in a more elegant fashion in the future.

To All,

Thanks for the kudos, folks, on our CBS-HD NFL games pass-through. WPEC Transmitter Supervisor Jerry Rector continues to fine tune our DTV gear and was on the phone with me today during the game while adjusting audio delay to compensate for lip sync errors. I am in frequent communication with Jerry and with our Director of Engineering, George Danner on WPEC-DT issues. Engineer Keith Betts is working on our Weather Central service on channel 12-2 and some really cool things are in store for us there coming soon.

ANSEK,

Re: WPBF-DT's Enemy of the State, there's some lip sync error while lip sync looks okay on WPLG-DT in Miami. Is this what you're refering to?

ANSEK

01-11-03, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by David McRoy

ANSEK,

Re: WPBF-DT's Enemy of the State, there's some lip sync error while lip sync looks okay on WPLG-DT in Miami. Is this what you're refering to?

Earlier in the program I was experiencing really weird audio. I don't know how to explain the problem but, now I am only noticing the lip sync.

hdtvis4me

01-11-03, 10:42 PM

Update on Enemy of the State - I am now seeing it in widescreen. Not sure why it was in 4:3 earlier. It also actually sounds like all channels of audio are working. Of course they are out of synch with the video, but they are there at least.

David McRoy

01-11-03, 11:15 PM

hdtvis4me,

Well it must be something specific to WPBF-DT's processing of the ABC-HD feed because the lip sync on their local news is fine.

Their Director of Engineering, Cliff Thomas, monitors this thread. If the problem persists try emailing him through the station website about it.

David McRoy

01-11-03, 11:48 PM

Bighitter,

WPEC-DT is on VHF channel 13.

In Loxahatchee a small outdoor VHF/UHF combo antenna should be fine.

Get one of these http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F002%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D2152 and point it to the south and point your UHF antenna north by northwest. (They can be on the same mast but a meter or so away from each other.)

Run seperate coax from each antenna to one of these http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F001%5F025%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1968 and send the output of the antenna A/B antenna switcher to your receiver.

Assign the south-facing VHF/UHF combo antenna to input A and your existing UHF antenna to B. Select A for WFLX, WPEC, WPTV and WXEL. Select B for WPBF and WTVX. (Other DTV stations will eventually join these from the two Lantana and south Martin County antenna farms.)

This will work. I installed an identical system in Royal Palm Beach and my own system here in College Park in Lake Worth is the same except that I have a much larger VHF/UHF combo antenna on a rotator so that I can get Miami DTV stations as well.

Bighitter

01-12-03, 12:17 AM

David,

Thanks for the help but I believe my post must have been misleading.

I was pulling in a 100% signal on my Tosh DST-3000 from WPEC-DT. Its a matter of not having enough sunlight today to get my new mast and mounting secure and nothing would stay up so I did a temporary solution just so I could watch the playoff game.

The reason I went with the U75r is so I can get the WB station out of Miami for my fiancee. I am positive once I secure everything up tomorrow everything will be fine. Especially considering I had the U75r set ontop of my entertainment center and was recieving the 4 local digitals all at 100% or just below.

Thanks for the help though, nice to know we have people in the industry locally who actually care.

danny7981

01-12-03, 07:30 AM

David,
Good info on the antennas. I live in Juno Beach and I am getting tired of going in the dirty hot nasty dusty attic. I have 2 large antennas up there, both UHF/vhf and when i hook them together with a simple coax combiner, I loose almost everything. I'll try your solution up there with the switch and see how it works. Also, you have any experience with the "silver sensor" UHF?
Dan

lambu

01-12-03, 09:23 AM

Please respond to my previous post.

-----------------------------------------------------
antenna & cable outlets
Atlast, now I am able to receive the ABC and PBS digital broadcasts after
moving my RS indoor antenna to 2nd floor and running a long rg6 cable
to it. My question is, can I hook the antenna output to one of the Cable's outlet in upstairs and divide the signal at the receiving end (STB's OTA) by any means? Please help me as I have cables laying all around the place.

Thanks,
Srini
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically I am planning to avoid long cable wire running from upstairs
to the dish 6000.

Thanks,
Srini

tvgal

01-12-03, 09:38 AM

Help guys - I'm so lost!!!
Hello everyone! Ive been reading through these posts trying to figure out how to receive OTA broadcasts. I have a Sony KV-40XBR700 with a HD100 receiver - the 4 DTV channels look great.
I started by purchasing an indoor Radio Shack antenna (15-1890) just to see if anything at all would come in. I then did an auto channel search which picked up many analog channels, some with decent reception.
I have no idea what to do next - moving the antenna around made some screens a nice pretty shade of blue but that's about it. I realize that I probably need a better antenna but I think the immediate problem is that I don't know what I'm doing - I'm not even sure if I attached the antenna cable to the right place on the receiver!
Are there any professionals around who help set these things up? Unfortunately, the guy who set up my equipment does not know anything about OTA HDTV.
ANY DIRECTION you can give me would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!
Much thanks in advance

hdtvis4me

01-12-03, 10:48 AM

tvgal - Not sure about the HD100 receiver, but I have also tried the 15-1890 with not that much luck. Granted, it worked better than the Terk TV55, but still was not able to receive all the channels that I wanted. I searched on the internet for help on this and found that the Radio Shack 15-1862 was actually much better. It nearly doubled the number of channels I was able to receive. Now I catch Miami and West Palm stations. Here is a really popular review of HDTV antennas from an independent reviewer:

http://www.projectorexpert.com/Pages/antin.html

Only bad thing is you can't find the 15-1862 in stores anymore. Ebay seems to be the only place to buy them.

tvgal

01-12-03, 11:13 AM

thanks for the antenna information hdtvis4me - problem is that even if i had a different antenna, i'm not sure what i should be doing with it. would the HD channels just "show up" in the autosearch or is there something i have to configure in the receiver or tv first?

tvgal

01-12-03, 11:38 AM

greenknight

01-12-03, 01:25 PM

Dave:
When I first got D*TV the locals weren't available so I went to RS and bought an antenna called The Stick (no longer available). It is a VHF/UHF
with some ampification. It worked great except for Channel 25, which was goasty. So I bought a RS UHF only that only marginally helped get ch.25.
When the locals were added to D*TV I forgot about the antennas in the space above the garage. Now that I'm about to go HD, I'm wondering if I can use the antennas that I have. Is the HD signal from ch. 25 stronger than their analog signal? In the past I combined the two signals (No A/B switch) and sent the combined signals to all the outlets in the house. Is this a mistake? Should I send the signal to only our tv set - by-pass all the other outlets not in use to get more signal? If you use the A/B box from RS
how do you identify all the channels on a STB? Scrap the antennas I have for sometning else? BTW, I have no interest in the Miami stations, just WPB. When I get the final blessing from The Boss, I plan on a Zenith
HD-SAT 520 and the Panny 42" DTV. Any suggestions? I'm in The Meadows in BB.
Thanks

lmfgh

01-12-03, 01:43 PM

I'm trying to watch the playoff game on Fox right now. I'm getting a signal strength of 86 which is pretty high but the pixilation is so bad that its now worth watching.
Anyone else having this problem? I 'm figuring that its being caused at the station and not my equiptment.

Thanks, Lynne

ANSEK

01-12-03, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by lmfgh
I'm trying to watch the playoff game on Fox right now. I'm getting a signal strength of 86 which is pretty high but the pixilation is so bad that its now worth watching.
Anyone else having this problem? I 'm figuring that its being caused at the station and not my equiptment.

Thanks, Lynne

Lynne,

I thought it was just me. I am noticing problems with the signal. There is some pixelation but most noticeable for me is the combing. The combing is making it look really bad. My signal strength like yours is very high (85 - 95).

ANSEK

01-12-03, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by greenknight
Dave:
When I first got D*TV the locals weren't available so I went to RS and bought an antenna called The Stick (no longer available). It is a VHF/UHF
with some ampification. It worked great except for Channel 25, which was goasty. So I bought a RS UHF only that only marginally helped get ch.25.
When the locals were added to D*TV I forgot about the antennas in the space above the garage. Now that I'm about to go HD, I'm wondering if I can use the antennas that I have. Is the HD signal from ch. 25 stronger than their analog signal? In the past I combined the two signals (No A/B switch) and sent the combined signals to all the outlets in the house. Is this a mistake? Should I send the signal to only our tv set - by-pass all the other outlets not in use to get more signal? If you use the A/B box from RS
how do you identify all the channels on a STB? Scrap the antennas I have for sometning else? BTW, I have no interest in the Miami stations, just WPB. When I get the final blessing from The Boss, I plan on a Zenith
HD-SAT 520 and the Panny 42" DTV. Any suggestions? I'm in The Meadows in BB.
Thanks

I would recommend you experiment with equipment you currently have. Worse thing that can happen is that you can't receive anything. The one thing I would recommend is that you only run that antenna your HD receivers. Everything I have read about antennas says the more devices you connect the lower the signal strength at each device. I am willing to be you will be able to get WPEC with no problems. With a little tweaking you should be able to get WPBF and WFLX. I was able to get WPEC, WPBF and WTVX with a set of rabbit ears when I was doing early testing. The great thing about digital signals is you either get it or you don't. You will not see the ghosting and other problems you noticed with the analog signal. Unlike the millions of possible results of analog there are only three result with digital, "No picture", "Picture with freezing and pixelation" and "Crystal clear picture".

If you find that your current setup doesn't work then you can try bigger and better antennas. A quick search of what people in your area are using will tell you what to buy. I am having success with a Silver Sensor and RS Double Bow-tie in in the space above my garage attached to an RS 15-1113 amp. Others are have success with less and of course other are having success with more.

David McRoy

01-12-03, 05:28 PM

The problem with receiving analog or digital signals coming from more than one direction requires either the use of an antenna rotator for a single antenna or multiple antennas. The latter approach is ideal for multiple receivers in the household.

The best approach is to temporarily combine the two antenna feeds just so the receiver or receivers can sucessfully scan all the channels, then separate the two feeds and run each into its own distribution amplifier, or D/A.

The two D/As can then supply feeds to each receiver in the home a separate feed from each antenna. An A/B switch at each receiver input will allow you to select the desired antenna depending on which channel you wish to view.

Yes, this is cumbersome to set-up but it's the best way to solve the problem with current receivers and antennas.

Two groups of engineers have come up with similar but competing systems involving "smart" diversity antennas that will be controlled by diversity receivers to automate this entire process seamlessly for each receiver in the house. But that gear is about two years away.

Here's a story about the NxtWave LINX system:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/f_DL_IEEE_Symposium.shtml

And this is a story about a competing system from Philips:

http://www.guidetohometheater.com/shownews.cgi?1466

This story about NxtWave testing it's LINX system indoors shows the NxTenna flanked by rabbit ears to the left and a small UHF indoor antenna on the right:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/On-RF/f-DL-reception-06.26.02.shtml

Don't fancy something resembling a small wastepaper basket on your roof?Well, at least we're getting away from this:

http://www.projectorexpert.com/Pages/antout.html

;)

robert1251

01-13-03, 12:14 PM

OK, guys; here is what I hope is a simple question. I really enjoyed watching the Raiders/Jets game in HD on WPEC-DT. I have a Sony KP-57HW40. The manual states as follows with regard to 720p (thinking ahead to the Super Bowl): "This projection TV is not capable of displaying a native 720p format signal. When a 720p format signal is received, it is converted into a 480p format signal." It is my understanding that many other TV's do not display 720p in native format, so I am not alone. Does this mean that when I tune in an HD program on ABC I am going to get the same thing as "Fox widescreen"? or will it be something better?

Rudy1

01-13-03, 01:25 PM

Your TV does not have an integrated digital tuner, so it will display the resolution being output by your outboard tuner as long as that is either 480i, 480p or 1080i. Set your tuner to 1080i output, and everything it receives (regardless of the original format) will be sent to the TV as 1080i.

aviators99

01-13-03, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by robert1251
OK, guys; here is what I hope is a simple question. I really enjoyed watching the Raiders/Jets game in HD on WPEC-DT. I have a Sony KP-57HW40. The manual states as follows with regard to 720p (thinking ahead to the Super Bowl): "This projection TV is not capable of displaying a native 720p format signal. When a 720p format signal is received, it is converted into a 480p format signal." It is my understanding that many other TV's do not display 720p in native format, so I am not alone. Does this mean that when I tune in an HD program on ABC I am going to get the same thing as "Fox widescreen"? or will it be something better?

Well, not as bad as Fox widescreen football. That is filmed in 480i. But you will be losing a lot of information. I would suggest picking up or borrowing a DTC-100 for the game. It upconverts 720p to 1080i before sending it to the monitor. Or, alternatively, I believe you could also use a Dish 6000 or 5000, but I have little experience with these.

David McRoy

01-13-03, 02:22 PM

Robert1251,

In your Member profile you state that you are using a Zenith DTV420 receiver. This receiver will output 1080i so you're good to go. The DTV420 will convert 480i, 480p and 720p to 1080i. (We have a Zenith DTV420 at the station that we'll be using to feed the Sony 50" HDTV in the lobby...if the set ever gets shipped!)

The resulting image will look slightly softer than native 1080i and since the 720p progressive signal will be converted to interlace as 1080i the reduction in motion artifacts that 720p offers won't be apparent on your set.

You'll be in good company, though...the vast majority of HDTVs are native 1080i displays...including miine!;)

Mark_T

01-13-03, 02:57 PM

Dave,

Excellent job with the AFC Playoffs this weekend! You guys rock, especially with the DD5.1 audio. (Just a few drop outs with signal of 80 here in Miami) Did you have any input on this one? Looks like all the other DT stations only broadcast in DD2.0 and WPEC is the exception. My "local" CBS station will be you guys from now on!

Mark

lwhitefl

01-13-03, 03:16 PM

Dave - I also very much enjoyed the AFC HD broadcast on WPEC-DT. I only experienced a couple of minor pixelization problems and the DD sound was also very good - consistent signal strength between 86 - 93. This viewing area is very fortunate to have a progressive WPB DT station. I look forward to much great HD viewing!

tvgal

01-13-03, 04:44 PM

come on guys, i'm reaching out here - if not here, where else can i turn?? i am making slow progress, i returned the RS antenna and was able to find the zenith silver sensor at sears. the good news is that i can pick up many locals in analog with pretty good reception. i'm just not sure how and where to look for the hd signals? my sat-hd100 has some menu options for "non directv" stations and gives you the option to select another antenna but when i do that search, i only get analog :( when i choose "none" i get none (that makes sense) but then i choose "digital" and still get nothing. also - i have 2 different uhf/vhf inputs on the sat-hd100 - 1 is marked uhf/vhf and the other uhf/vhf (dtv) - which is the correct one for the antenna connection?
i'm a pretty quick study, just need some easy to follow instructions - pretty please???
i'll be most appreciative :)

ANSEK

01-13-03, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Mark_T
Dave,

Excellent job with the AFC Playoffs this weekend! You guys rock, especially with the DD5.1 audio. (Just a few drop outs with signal of 80 here in Miami) Did you have any input on this one? Looks like all the other DT stations only broadcast in DD2.0 and WPEC is the exception. My "local" CBS station will be you guys from now on!

Mark
What HD receiver do you have?

tvgal

01-13-03, 06:20 PM

just got fox on 29.1 :)
2 questions for now...
1- why did it shrink my 4:3 picture?
2- did i only pick up fox because their signal is the strongest, or because they were the only ones to be broadcasting right now - in other words would i pick up the channel if they had no programming on at the time of the scan?

lwhitefl

01-13-03, 06:48 PM

tvgal - all WPB-HD stations are currently broadcasting. WPEC-DT will begin broadcasting HD content at 8pm. Analog broadcast signals are correctly displayed as a 4:3 picture to prevent stretching. You can use the titantv.com web site to help orient your antenna correctly from your location. You should be able to pickup all the WPB-HD stations.

tvgal

01-13-03, 07:07 PM

Len - thanks for your response. i am now getting 3 stations, 16.1, 29.1 and 34.1. i understand the stretching issue - my tv is 4:3 though with enhanced 16:9 (sony kvxbr700) shouldn't analog signals display full screen?
thanks again!

lwhitefl

01-13-03, 07:17 PM

tvgal - you should also be able to pickup CBS WPEC-DT (12-1) which has a great deal of primetime HD content. Not familiar with your Sony, but I would check the digital setup again to see if there's a setting for what you're describing. I have a Mits 55905 16:9 set and analog signals from those channels display as 4:3 images.

bsgoren

01-13-03, 07:23 PM

I am about to dive into HDTV in a few weeks (planning to buy either the Sony KP-57WV700 or the Hitachi 57SWX20B, and the Sony HD200 HDTV receiver), and have a few questions for all of you who are already enjoying HDTV around the WPB area...

In order to get the local HD OTC channels (ABC - 16-1, CBS - 13-1, FOX - 28, and NBC - 55 (date set for March, 2003 I believe)) in West Palm Beach, I know I need to get a decent HDTV antenna. But, I have to get an indoor antenna to put on top of my entertainment center or somewhere in the family room (north side of the house). I live @ Hypoluxo Rd. + Hagen Ranch Rd. in Lake Worth. An outdoor antenna is not an option.

After doing some online research, I am looking at the Gemeni/Zenith Silver Sensor ZHDTV1 for $35 and the Terk TV55 for $98, or can I get away with a cheapie from RS? What about this discontinued RS 15-1862 (VHF/UHF) and the tests from Peter Putman (www.projectorexpert.com)? Because WPEC CBS-DT station is on 13-1, doesn't that mean I need an antenna that gets both UHF and VHF or should I get the Silver Sensor + a VHF antenna and use an antenna combiner? I know all of you on this forum use different antennas with some success in the W. Palm area. Any thoughts on the best choice?

Also, does anyone know which might be the best way to connect the HD receiver to the tv...DVI, Component, or S-Video?

Thanks!!

David McRoy

01-13-03, 07:28 PM

Mark,

So far CBS HD sends Dolby Digital 2.0 only. Some of the programming is 2-channel stereo and some is in Dolby Surround, matrixed within the 2.0 stream. (They'll eventually send guinuine DD 5.1 also but they're not there yet.)

What we are currently doing is passing a Dolby Surround flag on our DD stream on Dolby Surround programs that instructs your decoder to default to a ProLogic mix whenever a Surround program is available and instructing your decoder to go into 2-channel stereo the rest of the time. When CBS-HD starts sending DD 5.1 (shown as "3/2" on many decoders) we'll pass that through as well.

The next thing I'd like for us to deal with is to adjust our Dolby Digital audio encoder so that we are sending a code that allows your decoder to default to ProLogic or ProLogic II when the DD 2.0 stream is only carrying a 2-channel stereo program. (Right now we're "locking" your decoder in 2-channel stereo when there's no Surround program on.)

Dolby ProLogic II, which you'll find in many of the newest A/V receivers and A/V processors does a particularly nice job of creating a nice surrround mix from 2-channel stereo material.

David McRoy

01-13-03, 07:44 PM

bsgoren,

You live really close to the west Lantana antenna farm where WFLX, WPEC, WPTV and WXEL transmit from. WPBF and WTVX transmit from south Martin County.

If you insist on using an indoor antenna start with a VHF/UHF combo antenna from Radio Shack or whoever. This will be rabbit ears for VHF and either a loop or a bowtie for UHF. See if you get WPBF-DT and WFLX-DT okay. If not, you'll need "more antenna." If that's the case, see my recommendations on a previous post yesterday on this thread.

Be aware that U. S. Code states that you may have an outdoor TV antenna. This law supercedes anything that your landlord or homeowners association rules may say to the contrary. Here's a link to the law of the land from the Federal Communications Commission website:

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html

If an outdoor antenna is simply an esthetics issue for you personally consider installing outdoor antennas in you attic. instead of on the roof.

robert1251

01-13-03, 07:56 PM

Many thanks to Rudy1, aviators99 and David for their answers to my 720p question. I feel much better. I guess that what I did not understand about the statement in Sony's manual was that it assumed a 720p signal passing directly into the monitor, without the intervention (and conversion) by the STB. I will now look forward to the Super Bowl con mucho gusto. But first the championship games, especially the one on CBS in HD (nuts to Fox). Now here is another basic question and I hope you will all indulge me. I am preparing to write an article for my homeowners association newsletter explaining that DTV is now a reality in Boca Raton. What is the simplest explanation to contrast Adelphia's claim to "digital cable" and DirecTV's claim of "digital-quality pictures" versus true OTA DTV?
Thanks in advance.

David McRoy

01-13-03, 08:07 PM

Tell them that "digital-quality" is a meaningless term. DirecTV is all-digital, too but many of the standard-definition channels on it look worse than over-the-air analog TV (as does Adelphia digital cable, in my personal opinion.) At least DirecTV passes HBO-HD, ShowtimeHD, HDNet and a 24-hour pay-per-view movie channel in HD with more to come this year.

Then, invite you neighbors in to see the SuperBowl or the Oscars or anything you like in over-the-air HDTV. And point out that while you can get standard-definition local signals via Adelphia and DirecTV currently neither offers local HDTV. You need an antenna for that.

Then show them this:

http://ftp.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html

And suggest that they ask Adelphia when they will be offering local stations and national cable programmers such as those mentioned above in HDTV.

bsgoren

01-13-03, 08:46 PM

Thanks Dave. I had a feeling that the big tower off of US441 (at least I'm guessing that's the one you're talking about) just west of me has the tv station signals and I definitely have good line of site of that tower from my rear patio. While I understand that under the law, I could put up an outdoor antenna, I would rather not have to deal with that kind of external-internal installation. However, if I needed to hook up an antenna in my attic, how is that done? Can I tap into the cable outlets, or would I have to run a separate cable through and down to my family room?

Also, what have you heard about this (discontinued) Radio Shack 15-1862 (replaced by the 15-1890)? Should I get that Zenith Silver Sensor + a VHF rabbit ears antenna using an antenna combiner? Or, are you suggesting that any VHF/UHF cheapie for $10 will do?

Thanks for the clarification.

Bigtime-540

01-13-03, 11:35 PM

Dave,

My audio receiver triggers to Dolby Digital automatically when I receive your DD signal and it sounds great!! Also agree that ProLogic II does a good job as well on all channels when getting a 2 channel surround signal.

As for picking up WPEC, I'm in Boca Raton and get a normal signal (Zenith HDV420) with the Silver Sensor. I guess UHF antennas can pickup stronger VHF stations.
Thanks, David

Bigtime-540

01-13-03, 11:48 PM

I'm doing something similar with success. I connected my OTA antenna to the cable outlet in a spare room upstairs (no TV connection) and then connected my Zenith 420 receiver to the same cable downstairs. Cheap and easier way to get the antenna up higher.

But it sounds like you also want to get the cable co. signal over the same cable as well? Don't think that would work too well.

Originally posted by lambu
Please respond to my previous post.

-----------------------------------------------------
antenna & cable outlets
Atlast, now I am able to receive the ABC and PBS digital broadcasts after
moving my RS indoor antenna to 2nd floor and running a long rg6 cable
to it. My question is, can I hook the antenna output to one of the Cable's outlet in upstairs and divide the signal at the receiving end (STB's OTA) by any means? Please help me as I have cables laying all around the place.

Thanks,
Srini
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically I am planning to avoid long cable wire running from upstairs
to the dish 6000.

Thanks,
Srini

wdb44

01-14-03, 12:56 AM

tvgal,

As I understand it (I have a Sony HD100, also), when the digital stations broadcast analog signals, they are displayed in 4:3 format. Much of the non prime-time content is broadcast this way. My screen only fills when a true HDTV (or in the case of Fox, whatever it is they are sending) signal is received. Analog signals you pick up from cable or your off air analog antenna (the HD100 has 2 antenna inputs) should be displayed full screen. If not, check your settings in the HD100 and on the TV.

(Keep me honest, guys. I am not a techie - this is just from my observation!)

aviators99

01-14-03, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by David McRoy
Robert1251,

In your Member profile you state that you are using a Zenith DTV420 receiver. This receiver will output 1080i so you're good to go. The DTV420 will convert 480i, 480p and 720p to 1080i. (We have a Zenith DTV420 at the station that we'll be using to feed the Sony 50" HDTV in the lobby...if the set ever gets shipped!)

The resulting image will look slightly softer than native 1080i and since the 720p progressive signal will be converted to interlace as 1080i the reduction in motion artifacts that 720p offers won't be apparent on your set.

You'll be in good company, though...the vast majority of HDTVs are native 1080i displays...including miine!;)

When I read his original post, I looked up his TV, and it looks like it has its own tuner? I didn't realize that he also has an STB...

David McRoy

01-14-03, 08:21 AM

bsgoren,

There are actually three broadcast towers southwest of the intersection of Lantana Road and U. S. 441.

The closest to the intersection is ours (WPEC.)

Next out is WPTV. (I believe WXEL-DT will be on this one, too.)

The farthest out is WFLX.

Mark_T

01-14-03, 09:48 AM

Morning Dave & ANSEK,

I'm using a Kenwood VR-6070 (Auto Detect mode) receiver to decode the DD optical output of my DST3000 STB. For some reason WFOR sends a DD2.0 to the receiver and only locks the L & R channels with no center, LS, RS or LFE. All other DT's do the same expect for WPEC which locks the receiver to all five channels and the LFE. I thought you might have been sending a true 5.1 but a Dolby Surround signal would probably trick it into outputing to all channels. So, I guess in a nutshell, you are sending a DD2.0 Surround flag where others are not at this time? Thanks again for your input.

David McRoy

01-14-03, 11:22 AM

Yes, Mark...at least I think that's what we're doing!;)

We'll revisit our encoder issues soon. Meanwhile we're working on getting the audio phase reversal corrected on the Weather Central Live stream on channel 12-2. We'll also try to do something about the strange "chirps" you hear on that channel when the radar or the weathercam is up.

David McRoy

01-15-03, 11:41 AM

Okay, we're "in phase" on 12-2 audio now. Still working on the "chirps" when the 7-day forecast is up.

Dolby Laboratories has a guy who's supposed to get back to us on the remaining audio issue on 12-1. I'll let you all know when we make a change.

pogo

01-16-03, 11:34 AM

Just got an email from WXEL with plans for their digital programming (with the usual caveat of course - subject to change):

- subchannel with channel we see now
- subchannel with PBS KIDS
- subchannel with Florida Network (government programming)
- subchannel with content yet to be determined

pogo

David McRoy

01-16-03, 11:37 AM

I hope the are planning to pass any HDTV programming that PBS makes available. If not, I'll have to continue to rely on WPBT-DT for that.;)

TOM H.

01-16-03, 12:23 PM

Dave,
First, I'd like to say Hi to all the locals and say how much I'm enjoying WPEC's HD broadcasting. The NFL playoffs have been heavenly! Please pass along our gratefulness to the WPEC engineering team.

A friend in Boca has been trying to find the NEC code for the proper way to ground an outside antenna.
Could you give any insight into how they should be grounded?

Mark_T

01-16-03, 02:43 PM

Hi Tom H,

The NEC code for antenna receiving equipment (i.e. tv's) can be found in Article 810-21 for proper grounding conductors. It basically states you need to ground the outer braid conductor to an earth ground via a water pipe, building steel or a driven ground rod. Radio Shack & Home Depot sell an inline F59 connector with a screw to attach a ground lead to a grounding conductor for about 3 dollars. You will also need two RG 6 or 59 male connectors depending on your cable to splice the cable to the grounding connector. This is an excellent way to protect your investment and preventing a static discharge ruining your inside equipment!

Mark T

David McRoy

01-16-03, 06:53 PM

Here's a link to a tutorial on this subject from Hewlett/Packard:

http://www.hp.com/ergo/precautions_externaltelevision.html

And on the subject of protecting expensive equipment, besides living in the lightning capital of North America, Florida, (we really are!) we share another potential threat from our electrical service providers in the form of spikes and surges. As one of at least two individuals here in Lake Worth who's identical Zenith IQB64W10W HDTVs (mine is serial number 16, the other guy's is serial number 3) was damaged during Lake Worth Utility's infamous transformer episodes last summer, I'm going to put the Zenith and everything else in my AV system on UPSes.

TOM H.,

Thanks for the kudos on behalf on the WPEC Engineering Department (I'm just a knob-twirler/button-pusher in the Production Department but the engineers monitor this thread and I'm sure they are grateful for your appreciation of the hard work that they continue to put into this project!)

TOM H.

01-17-03, 09:51 AM

Thanks for the grounding information Mark & Dave, its greatly appreciated!

Dave,
It's nice to see that the WPEC engineers have toned down the side 4:3 bars to a shade of gray, instead of black, to help with potential "burn in".
It looks as though they've chosen a 10IRE shade of gray, but a few more IRE's higher would be a bit more beneficial.
I understand that it might be more objectionable to some viewers, because of them being more noticeable, but at least WPEC is aware of the potential "burn-in" issue and is trying to alleviate it.

Thanks again,

Rudy1

01-17-03, 08:28 PM

Dave,
You're probably already aware of this, but I just noticed your clock is about five hours fast. Reception is pretty good.
Rudy

David McRoy

01-18-03, 11:33 PM

We have a clock? I had no idea!

;) ;) ;)

ANSEK

01-19-03, 07:07 AM

Originally posted by Rudy1
Dave,
You're probably already aware of this, but I just noticed your clock is about five hours fast. Reception is pretty good.
Rudy

I am willing to bet that the clock is showing GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) or UT (Universal Time).

ANSEK

01-19-03, 07:17 PM

Is there an occasional flicker in WPEC's broadcast of the AFC Championship game or is it my TV?

fl_newbie

01-19-03, 07:44 PM

Ansek:

I'm watching the game on 4.1 (WFOR) and I am getting a haze(loss of contrast?) appearing and disappearing, mostly present, not present on commercials. Is this what you are seeing?

ANSEK

01-19-03, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by fl_newbie
Ansek:

I'm watching the game on 4.1 (WFOR) and I am getting a haze(loss of contrast?) appearing and disappearing, mostly present, not present on commercials. Is this what you are seeing?

No, what I am seeing is best described as an occasional incomplete picture. If you could imagine a partially drawn pictures where the missing components are black. It the blackness makes the image apear to flicker. It is almost like the bit stream drops for half a frame.

I do not notice the haze you mention but, I will look out for that too.

Bighitter

01-19-03, 07:50 PM

Yeah I noticed something similiar ANSEK. On my DST-3000 it looks like pixelation but its only for like a frame then everything is perfect again. I will switch to the WFOR broadcast to see if I see the haze.

*EDIT*
I dont see any haze on WFOR but I did see the same drop out/pixelation on WFOR so it appears to be a network feed problem and not just a station specific issue.

wdb44

01-19-03, 11:06 PM

I watched most of the game with 99.5% great reception. I had a very occasional almost flicker-like dropout and a couple of times with some slight pixelation. No haze noticable. I am running a Samsung 160 fed by a Zenith Silver Sensor pointed out the window of my first floor apartment in Delray. (Can't get clear line of sight north, so I am limited to mostly stations to the south of me.) Hope the feedback helps.

bsgoren

01-21-03, 06:10 PM

To Dave or anyone else who may have some answers here in the WPB area:

I just hooked everything up today...the new HDTV (went with the Sony KP-57WV700 btw...it's great so far), the Sony HD-200 receiver, and the Zenith Silver Sensor antenna. I just have a couple of issues thus far...

1) For some reason, when I did the initial auto channel search after inputting my zip code, only 25.1 (WPBF) and 28.1 (WFLX) came up in my integrated program guide. 13.1 (WPEC) was not picked up, and as I understand it, I live about 3 mi. away from the antenna farm just south of Lantanna Rd.. + US441 (I can see the towers from my window). I read that many people in other areas much further away than me are still able to pick up WPEC with the Silver Sensor even though it's technically a VHF station...any advice?

2) When I turned off the Sony HD-200 satellite receiver and then turned it back on about 1/2 hour later, it did a reboot and re-scanned all the channels...what's up with that?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

David McRoy

01-21-03, 06:34 PM

I'm not familiar with the HD-200. Can you punch-in 13-1 and 13-2 manually and the "add" those channels? (Some STBs will let you do this.)

If that doesn't work, try omitting your zip code entry (make it all zeros) and try another channel scan.

Also, try tuning our NTSC channel 12-0 and adjust the antenna for best picture there before a channel scan.

I suppose it's possible that the receiver may be being overloaded by our signal due to your proximity to our transmitter, even though you are only using an indoor antenna. If the steps above don't work, and if you get a bad picture on our analog channel (12-0) try inserting an antenna signal variable attenuator between the antenna and the tuner. Radio Shack sells them.

wdb44

01-21-03, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by bsgoren
2) When I turned off the Sony HD-200 satellite receiver and then turned it back on about 1/2 hour later, it did a reboot and re-scanned all the channels...what's up with that?

Actually, this appears to be a known HD200 problem. See the thread relating to it under HDTV Hardware.

debsman

01-21-03, 07:48 PM

Anyone getting FLX or UPN signal in West Palm Beach area. I got FLX strong last night, and tonight not a blip on my signal meter. UPN is the same. PEC comes in as if I were in the station - 100% strength.

My wife wanted to watch American Idol in upconverted format...

David McRoy

01-21-03, 07:50 PM

WFLX-DT and WTVX-DT both appear to be off the air.

bsgoren

01-21-03, 08:00 PM

David,

Got it now...just repositioned the Silver Sensor antenna and rescanned the channels as you said, and voilla! Thanks. I take it there's nothing that can be done about the black 4:3 side bars; in order to avoid possible burn-in, I'm trying not to watch those signals that cannot be stretched to 16:9 or are that not native 16:9 HD for the first 100 hours. I have my tv set to Wide Zoom, although the STB seems to override it with the Panoramic stretch mode (which actually seems more pleasing to the eye anyhow), but some still come in 4:3 like the OTA signals....anything I can do?

Yes, I too noticed that WFLX - Fox-D says "no signal" although it came up on my program guide.

Thanks.

ANSEK

01-21-03, 08:49 PM

I take it there's nothing that can be done about the black 4:3 side bars

Click the "Format" button on the HD200 remote control until the STB is in 480p mode. Then click the "Wide Mode" button until you are in "Cropped" mode. This will output a 4:3 signal to the TV that you can then use your TV's stretch functionality to stretch to preference (Wide or Wide Zoom).

bsgoren

01-21-03, 11:05 PM

Thanks Ansek. I've been playing with it all evening; just getting used to all the different settings. I'm getting WPEC-DT and WPBF-DT with decent signals from Hypoluxo Rd. + Hagen Ranch Rd. I noticed that since WPBF outputs in 720p that I have found the "Variable1" format setting on my HD200 receiver seems to automatically adjust it as per the signal (and cable is upconverted to 480p). I don't think I'll mind watching the commercials in 4:3 HD with the black side bars; I just want to limit that for the first 100 hours to prevent burn-in (plus I have the contrast and brightness turned very low). Thanks again!

debsman

01-22-03, 06:49 PM

FLX and UPN still down for me...anyone getting a signal from them?

George33027

01-22-03, 07:07 PM

Does anyone see any NBC-DT activity?

David McRoy

01-22-03, 08:06 PM

WTVX-DT, 34-1 is back on the air tonight. WFLX-DT is still off the air. I don't see anything yet on 55-1, the WPTV-DT assigned channnel (NBC, West Palm Beach.) Where was WTVJ-DT (NBC, Miami) supposed to be? (Edit: just checked the FCC website...it's channel 31. Nothing there, either.)

Bighitter

01-22-03, 10:25 PM

Anyone else notice that WHDT seems to be sending a signal? I actually got it in my scan somehow even though it peaks the signal at like 12 on my DST-3000. They finally coming online now?

Bigtime-540

01-22-03, 11:02 PM

A lot of talk lately on the silver sensor so thought I'd chime in.

I'm in Boca (almost to the Boca/Deerfield line) and I can pick up WPEC 12-1 with a good signal and, get this, I have the SS pointing south out a window on the south side of my house.

I'm also receiving 7-1 WSVN Fox and 10-1 WPLG ABC (super bowl!)...aren't these VHF signals?

I'd like to get 25-1 WPBF like I'm getting WPEC but I get nothing.

Anyhow, the SS works well for me but I have a question...I have the SS set vertically in its stand rather than horizontal. It seems to pickup these stations much better this way. Do others have it set vertically? And would this also contribute more to the SS being very sensitive to the direction it's pointing?

Thanks. Dave

wdb44

01-22-03, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Bigtime-540
Anyhow, the SS works well for me but I have a question...I have the SS set vertically in its stand rather than horizontal. It seems to pickup these stations much better this way. Do others have it set vertically? And would this also contribute more to the SS being very sensitive to the direction it's pointing?

Thanks. Dave

I tried mine both ways and couldn't get a thing vertically. I only have a south facing window in my ground floor apartment, but I get CBS4 MIA/FLL really well. Also WB, UPN and PBS, plus 3 Latin stations. I was shocked it worked so well in this situation.

TOM H.

01-23-03, 12:40 AM

I've actually been getting WHDT-DT 59 for a couple months up here in Hobe Sound.
So far all they seem to be broadcasting is foreign news and a shopping network.

David McRoy

01-23-03, 08:14 AM

I have WHDT in my guide, too, but I've never seen a picture.

Regarding antenna orientation, most TV stations transmit a horizontally polarized signal although some add a vertical component as well to assist reception via rabbit ears or loops. But, whatever works best with your receiving antenna is what you should do...sometimes you may get a better signal in the vertical plane due to a strong reflection in that plane even if the original transmitted signal was horizontal.

Dave, yes, WSVN-DT is on VHF channel 8 and WPLG-DT is on VHF channel 9 while WPEC-DT is on VHF channel 13. Everybody else in Miami and West Palm Beach uses UHF for DTV.

Stevessvt

01-23-03, 03:02 PM

A heads up,...I think I got a good deal for the Hughes HIRD-E86 Sat receiver, Brands Mart had it on sale for $298.99, I picked it up on Saturday, Jan 18th,...I think it is still on sale.

Steve

hdtvis4me

01-23-03, 03:09 PM

Bought my e-86 in December for the same price. Be careful though - I had to return 2 of them because they sold me used hardware. Finally on the 3rd time, I got a new unit. The packaging on the used ones were ripped and had shrink wrap on the receiver. The new unit did not have shrink wrap, but had the normal NON-SEALED plastic cover. Another note is that the used ones they sold me were not set to factory default. The access cards were all scratched up too. I am glad I finally got a good one. I guess that is how they are able to sell them so cheap. Circuit City just started selling the same model for $699. So I guess $298 is a good deal if you are willing to go head to head with Bransdmart and deal with their return department.

Stevessvt

01-23-03, 03:16 PM

It was my first purchase from them, and I watched them open the box up and inspect the unit and card, and the card appears to be new, so maybe I got lucky. But I will definately heed your warning and inspect all future purchases from them.

Thanks,
Steve

PS, how crazy is it that Circuit City sells them for 699?!?

bsgoren

01-23-03, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Stevessvt
A heads up,...I think I got a good deal for the Hughes HIRD-E86 Sat receiver, Brands Mart had it on sale for $298.99, I picked it up on Saturday, Jan 18th,...I think it is still on sale.

Steve

Not too sure about the Hughes receiver, but I just set up my new Sony HD-200 that I purchased from BrandsMart last week ($688, which is more than $100 less than anywhere including online)...it's phenomenal! Everything integrated into one super guide - sat, cable, ota...quality and performance seems to be A1. I posted a message earlier about a 'reboot' issue, but so far, it has only happened that one time. According to other threads, the issue for those Sony receivers that reboot several times/day should be resolved by downloaded software patch from DirecTV.

For $300 - if the Hughes works great, then more power to you. If it doesn't, I highly recommend the Sony...it may be worth the extra $$. Good luck.

David McRoy

01-23-03, 08:19 PM

WFLX-DT is still off the air.

WTVX-DT is back.

WPBF-DT is not passing-through ABC-HD tonight while WPLG-DT is.

I'm still getting PSIP program guides from WHDT-DT but no signal.

wtvx-

aviators99

01-23-03, 08:32 PM

Receiving a good signal on WLRN-DT. They are multicasting on 20-1 (grotesque, stretched SD), and 20-2 (Normal 4:3, but frame rate of one frame per second)

Still not getting any usable signal on WPEC :-(

Rudy1

01-23-03, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by aviators99
Receiving a good signal on WLRN-DT. They are multicasting on 20-1 (grotesque, stretched SD), and 20-2 (Normal 4:3, but frame rate of one frame per second)

Still not getting any usable signal on WPEC :-(

That's odd....yesterday they weren't stretching the SD material on 20-1. And the picture on 20-2 also was 4:3 and had a normal frame rate. Anyway, I guess they're doing it to avoid the black bars on the sides of the 4:3 material. The upconverted SD looks much better if I select 'PILLAR BOX" instead of "FULL" on my STB....it restores the correct aspect ratio, and allows mr to use the gray bars generated by the Samsung STB. The audio registers as DD 5.1 on my AV receiver, but it appears that the center channel info is coming from all five speakers.

Stevessvt

01-23-03, 10:27 PM

I called wflx, fox 29 earlier today, thinking that there was something wrong with my setup, and asked if they where broadcasting HDTV on 29-1 as usual, because I was not getting it. They said yes, it was working fine. I wonder if they even know that its not working?

aviators99

01-23-03, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by Stevessvt
I called wflx, fox 29 earlier today, thinking that there was something wrong with my setup, and asked if they where broadcasting HDTV on 29-1 as usual, because I was not getting it. They said yes, it was working fine. I wonder if they even know that its not working?

Considering they have never broadcast HD, I think you may have called the wrong station.

Bighitter

01-24-03, 06:54 PM

WFLX-DT is back up now. I placed my order for the 4228 today, figure if I am going to get reliable use of the miami stations might as well go big.

ANSEK

01-24-03, 10:54 PM

The commercials during Queens Supreme were all solid colors with no pictures.

David McRoy

01-25-03, 06:47 PM

Our 480i to 1080i upconverter has died and the manufacturer provides no weekend support (nice, huh?).

We will pass all CBS HD programming plus all of the nightly primetime schedule but we will not be able to air any non-primetime upconverted programming for the time being (SD and HD CBS prime shows are unaffected since the SD shows in prime are sent already upconverted from CBS-HD BOC in New York.) This affects programming on 12-1 (WPEC-HD) but not 12-2 (WPEC-SD) nor channel 12-0 (WPEC-TV, analog.)

Again we will carry all CBS-HD programming.

I'll post here as soon as we get back in business.

Bighitter

01-26-03, 12:52 AM

Wow I was wondering why I was getting a full solid color screen when I tuned to 12-1 but could hear audio. Sorry to hear about the equipment failure and even worse to hear of the horrible customer service from the equipment manufacturer.

ElectricPickle

01-26-03, 12:11 PM

What if CBS were the one broadcasting the Superbowl this weekend and then you had the equipment failure? Me thinks the manufacturer would be fixing it. Thanks for letting us know what's going on Dave.

debsman

01-26-03, 05:05 PM

I think what David was saying is that if the CBS feed is already HD then it would be passed along. They've lost the ability to upconvert locally (i.e. any 480i broadcast to 1080i). I would assume that a Superbowl broadcast from CBS would be HD already and then just passed along.

I could be wrong though...

David McRoy

01-26-03, 05:30 PM

You are correct, debsman.

Several friends are joining me for the Super Bowl tonight, so being a "belt-and-suspenders man" I've got everything covered:

Radio Shack VU-210 aimed south-southwest at WPLG-DT in Miami and Radio Shack U-75 aimed northwest at WPBF-DT. The antennas are on an A/B switch which is split to feed a Zenith ATSC receiver and a Mitsubishi ATSC receiver. I don't anticipate any problems. ;)

ANSEK

01-26-03, 06:00 PM

The audio is out of sync big time and the SD images have a lot of combing.

David McRoy

01-26-03, 06:54 PM

Here's the national thread on the Super Bowl:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=218476

David McRoy

01-27-03, 09:46 AM

We are sending 480i on the HD channel 12-1 now when there's no HD programming available, bypassing the defective upconverter.

the 480i image is stretched right now but that will soon be corrected.

debsman

01-27-03, 10:10 AM

David,

Is it safe to assume the CBS HD feed tonight will be passed along?

Thanks,
GT

David McRoy

01-27-03, 10:36 AM

Yes it will be.

David McRoy

01-27-03, 06:35 PM

Our lip sync is off for the direct 480i SD signal on 12-1 but remains optimized for the CBS-HD feed in 1080i. We'll take a look at this tomorrow.

George33027

01-27-03, 07:33 PM

After Brands Mart, check Sound Advice.
They usually come close or match the price, and the produce is new.

George33027

01-27-03, 07:35 PM

should have been product.
Don't know how to edit last post
(Never mind, the edit flag on the right finally came up.)

ANSEK

01-27-03, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by David McRoy
Our lip sync is off for the direct 480i SD signal on 12-1 but remains optimized for the CBS-HD feed in 1080i. We'll take a look at this tomorrow.

Dave,

Outside of the lip sync problem, sending the 480i signal and passing the CBS-HD stuff works out much better for my setup and my neighbor's setup. I have a 61" 4:3 HDTV and my HD200 is set to variable output. This setup allows for 480i content to be converted to 480p and then it is displayed in full screen on my TV (no vertical black bars). When you guys pass the CBS-HD feed my HD200 will pass 1080i to the TV and then it automatically goes to 16:9 mode. In 16:9 mode it is a 56" wide screen. My neighbor has a 55" wide screen and he likes the current setup better as well because it allows him to determine whether or not to stretch the image or pillar box the image or edge strech the image verse your feed forcing him to watch it pillar box.

Your current "broken" works out much better for me and others that I know. Why wouldn't WPEC leave the system like this? How is it for everyone else?

Stevessvt

01-28-03, 07:21 AM

Last night Fox 29 was coming in at 100% on my strength meter, but every once in a while I would get distortion and frame freezes. It would go from 100% for 3-5 minutes, then 20% or there abouts for no reason, then go right back to 100%. Anyone else get this also?

Steve

David McRoy

01-28-03, 02:31 PM

We're using the "auto lip-sync" feature for our 480i passthrough audio profile now and it seems to be working rather well. "Auto" didn't work well at all on the HD passthrough or the 480i-to 1080i-upconvert so we resorted to some custom delay correction that we set ourselves. So now that specific delay correction will be automatically introduced when we're doing HD passthrough.

Theoretically, then, we should have good lip sync now regardless of the source. We shall see.

I've noticed another interesting (and beneficial) side-effect of "going native" formats in that our SD 480i program audio can now be decoded as Dolby ProLogic if desired instead of being locked on front L/R as before when we were upconverting. Go figure.

Stevessvt

01-28-03, 08:18 PM

Its doing it again tonight, 100% for a few minutes,.....then 0-20% for a few moments, followed by 100% again for another few minutes. What is causing this? Anybody else getting this? :confused:

ElectricPickle

01-29-03, 09:08 AM

Stevessvt - you need to re-aim your antenna or reboot your STB. This seems to be common with digital OTA (Over The Air) transmissions. You may be getting interference in the channel 28 frequency range from something in or near your house. Most current STB's do a poor job of dealing with OTA issues but newer ones promise to do better.

David - is WPEC-DT back on low power since the equipment failure? I'm getting low signal strength now for some reason. Hmmm. I have not rebooted lately - will try that.

wjbjr

01-29-03, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by Stevessvt
Its doing it again tonight, 100% for a few minutes,.....then 0-20% for a few moments, followed by 100% again for another few minutes. What is causing this? Anybody else getting this? :confused:

Try pulling the STB plug overnight.

renegadeweeb

01-29-03, 04:30 PM

Stevessvt - I have the same problem with WFLX on my STB - 150. Research has narrowed it down to a multipath problem, but the fix....ahh, that's another story. It seems to work better on warm calm nights. Wind and cold seem to be an enemy.
Barry

David McRoy

01-29-03, 06:18 PM

Not having any problems here. If windy conditions exacerbate the problem it may involve strong reflections from nearby trees. Try orienting the antenna for the most ghost-free reception on their analog station, 29-0, then see if that improve reception from digital 29-1.

David McRoy

01-29-03, 06:20 PM

ElectricPickle,

We are at full power.

George33027

01-29-03, 06:46 PM

Doesn't reboot only work for the guide?

Stevessvt

01-29-03, 08:24 PM

I may have stumbled on to something here,....my remote with the Hughes E-86 is an RF one,....when I put it on the strength meter, and press something on the remote, the meter momenterily drops to 0%, then pops back up to 100% again.

Coincidence? (insert X-Files theme music here....):p

ANSEK

01-30-03, 06:42 AM

Any new news on WPTV-DT? According to the infamous article they should be up between this week and next. I wish someone from WPTV would keep the community informed on what is going on. I would email them but, I don't have an email address for them.

astrojeff

01-30-03, 03:22 PM

I just set up my system last week to view OTA HDTV. After watching the superbowl on WPBF I was dismayed about the lip sync problem. I called the station engineer, Cliff Thomas, on Monday to discuss the issue. We had a nice converstion and he was happy to get input from a viewer as he said there are very few people receiving the hi def signals in the area.

Apparently, they are well aware of the problem. They tried to improve the lip sync during the game. It seems that they get it set up and then the next program from ABC comes in differently and the audio/video is off again. But they are working on the situation. They don't seem to have it with the local DTV programs. I suggested that they may want to contact Dave at WPEC as that station initially having a problem and has apparently fixed it.

Cliff told me that all of their regular digital programs were being upconvered to 720p and sent in the 4:3 format. He initially was stretching them, but got a lot of complaints about that.

During the game I tried to get the Miami station for comparison, but the signal was too weak. I live in Tequesta and can see WPBF's tower from by backyard. Although NBC has very little HD programming, it will be nice to receive their DTV signal when their tower is finally finished (& WXEL).

LisaM

01-30-03, 07:52 PM

I have just skimmed most of the 49 pages of this thread. My folks live in Boca Raton and are about to take the plunge to HD. Can anyone recommend a good antenna installer for an in-attic installation?

Thanks in advance!

David McRoy

01-31-03, 08:20 AM

As of late yesterday we have a functioning 480i-to-1080i upconverter for all of our SD-originated programming once again.

aviators99

01-31-03, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by astrojeff
I just set up my system last week to view OTA HDTV. After watching the superbowl on WPBF I was dismayed about the lip sync problem. I called the station engineer, Cliff Thomas, on Monday to discuss the issue. We had a nice converstion and he was happy to get input from a viewer as he said there are very few people receiving the hi def signals in the area.

Apparently, they are well aware of the problem. They tried to improve the lip sync during the game. It seems that they get it set up and then the next program from ABC comes in differently and the audio/video is off again. But they are working on the situation. They don't seem to have it with the local DTV programs. I suggested that they may want to contact Dave at WPEC as that station initially having a problem and has apparently fixed it.

Cliff told me that all of their regular digital programs were being upconvered to 720p and sent in the 4:3 format. He initially was stretching them, but got a lot of complaints about that.

During the game I tried to get the Miami station for comparison, but the signal was too weak. I live in Tequesta and can see WPBF's tower from by backyard. Although NBC has very little HD programming, it will be nice to receive their DTV signal when their tower is finally finished (& WXEL).

So, are there "very few people watching" or were there "lots of complaints" ? Aren't they mutually exclusive?

George33027

01-31-03, 07:05 PM

OR ***********
Maybe there were very few complaints to them, so they feel there are very few people watching.
Not everyone who are Hi-Def watching will complain!

ElectricPickle

02-06-03, 03:11 PM

There is not much activity here lately. I have been getting test signals from WLRN-DT on 17-1 and 17-2 but it drops out. Probably because my antenna in the attic is pointed North instead of toward Miami. Actually I'm surprised that I can even pick it up at all.

David M. When will we see the program guide on WPEC-DT? 34-1 does not have a guide either. Also today I was watching 12-1 and there was -don't know the technical term- "white bands of fog" in the picture. Like something was set too high. That was between 1:45 and 2:00 PM.

Craig M. is going to ISF my Mitsubishi TV this month. :D

W4ZOO

02-06-03, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by ElectricPickle

Craig M. is going to ISF my Mitsubishi TV this month. :D

Who is Craig M.

ISF is on my list ...

ElectricPickle

02-06-03, 05:16 PM

Craig is THE Mitsubishi ISF guy. He and his wife travel the country in their travel trailer and he will be in Florida the later part of February. You may email him to get an appointment. You can do a search on the forum for "CraigM or Craig_M and you will find only good reports about his service. Here are the details:
------------------------------

Here is some information on what my Mits calibrations and tweaks include and the price.

A full scale Mits calibration takes approximately 12-14 hours and this includes the following:
1. First Inspection. Using various Avia and HD Generator test patterns I inspect the screens, CRTs and other items on your set. There is no sense in calibrating it if you are going to need any repair work. Also at this time we look at Component 480i as verses S-Video if you have an interlaced DVD player. Since Component 480i has a number of differences that effect other calibrations and tweaks we need to agree on which hook up you will be using. At this time we also talk about the protective screen and remove it if you would like.
2. Next we open it up and continue the inspection: Mirror condition, Lenses, and check for CRT coolant leaks. If all of that looks good, the lenses are removed and the actual CRTs, coolant and coolant lenses are inspected for any anomalies.
3. If everything passes we move on to cleaning. Cleaning is a very important step in the calibration. Even though these are relatively "new" sets, they all need a very good cleaning. This really helps improve the picture clarity.
4. Clean the Mirror. This usually take 3 to 4 passes to get the factory "film", smudges and finger prints off. The 73" set with the Mylar mirror should never be cleaned only dusted lightly with air.
5. Remove the lens assemblies and give them a good cleaning. We also remove that nasty tape at this time and replace it with new tape after focus is complete.
6. The coolant lenses are cleaned next. These coolant lenses or covers are very concave and collect a lot of dirt and bug parts at the factory.
7. And then the Screen Assembly is cleaned. It is amazing how dirty many of the fresnel lenses are (inside back of the screen). This shows up as dark streaks in a 100 IRE (White) Field.
8. Then I hook up my black box (I2C Interface) and download and archive all of the current User menu and Service menu settings for your set.
9. G2 Voltage (Screen VRs) is next. I set these at factory specification +- .1 volt. This determines the base level for all of the following adjustments and it may improve CRT life. This also helps the AKB (Auto Cathode Balance) work properly which helps hold the grayscale adjustment as the CRTs age. These are set incorrectly on just about every Mits. A little too high or low isn't that bad it's the spread between the three CRTs, upwards of 15 volts from the factory, that needs to be corrected to get the best grayscale and AKB working properly. The factory spec calls out for +- 1 volt, not the 5-15 volts that I regularly see. Also if G2 is set to high or low it hurts horizontal resolution and softens the picture a little.
10. Electrostatic and Manual focus, a very necessary and key element to a super image. Some models of the newer Mits have astigmatism correction (Quad Field Focus), so this will also be checked and adjusted to allow for optimum focus. 99.9% of the new sets with Quad Field Focus have been set wrong from the factory and this hurts corner and edge focus. I check and re-check each CRT multiple times to make sure they are at the best possible focus across the entire screen.
11. Lots of Geometry work to get the Green Grid and Overscan set properly. This is done for both SD and HD using Mylar grid overlays, actual external grid images and special scrolling test patterns to cross check horizontal and vertical linearity. Since I don't just eyeball geometry, this adds a lot of time to the calibrations. I have found that just about every set needs to be zeroed out, magnetic centering and yoke rotation checked and set and then the geometry is redone from the ground up. This isn't just for correcting speed bumps and uneven geometry, that can easily be done by eye. This actually improves convergence which improves picture clarity, otherwise I wouldn't spend this much time, and your $$ on this step and the next step.
12. Service Level Convergence for both SD and HD. I zero out SD and HD Fine Red and Blue, set Coarse Red and Blue to starting default values, check and set magnetic centering and yoke rotation and then re-do convergence from the ground up. This is the only way to do convergence, the Mits factory settings leave a lot to be desired and many times make it impossible to get a real good convergence across the entire screen. The Mits Red and Blue grids are pretty good but they are not exact so I use grid "images" from Avia and the HD generator to converge with. This assures that your actual image will be properly converged. Convergence is done so that it is fully optimized for "Your Viewing Position". This eliminates the parallax convergence errors that occur when convergence is done up close to the screen. Once again, I take a lot of extra care here. This is a very important step in getting the best clarity from your Home Theater..
13. Check and adjust edge enhancement through the black box for NTSC, 480p and HD modes. This removes some more of the Mits Showroom add-ons and gets us back to the true Home Theater look.
14. Check and adjust SVM and Sharpness for NTSC, 480p and HD modes.
15. Just about everything up to this point is done to improve clarity, everything that follows is to improve color.
16. Properly set the color decoder for NTSC, 480p and HD modes to remove "Red Push" on all inputs. No more attenuators. Besides correcting Red Saturation this also corrects Red Hue, Green Saturation and Green Hue so this also fixes the HD 1080i color decoder problems.
17. At this time the user controls will be centered except for Contrast and Brightness. These settings will be determined during grayscale calibration.
18. Check and adjust Gamma for NTSC, 480p and HD modes.
19. Set 480p grayscale, Contrast and Brightness and make them as linear as possible across the entire IRE range. And then check them against other test patterns and on actual images. Along with everything else, this is another step that I put extra work and care into for the best possible color reproduction from 0 IRE to 100 IRE
20. Set HD 1080i Grayscale.
21. And set grayscale for the NTSC inputs (Coax, Composite, S-Video, Component 480i). The Mits allows High Color Temp grayscale to be set independently for each of the three main display modes (NTSC, 480p and HD) which is very nice since they need to be set separately. The grayscale does vary between NTSC, 480p and HD.
22. Save all of the newly calibrated and tweak settings through the black box.
23. Put it all back together, wipe it all down to get my finger prints off, and then view some DVD and HD scenes to make sure you are truly 100% happy.
I use a Colorimeter for setting all of the grayscale modes/inputs and an HD Generator for setting High Definition Overscan, Geometry, SVM, Sharpness, Color Decoder and Grayscale settings.

Since it takes approximately 12-14 hours to do all of this I like to start the calibration around 9:00 A.M. so I can complete it before Midnight rolls around.

To do all of the above tweaks and calibrations I have a flat fee of $750. No surprises, no extra charges and no added fees per input, mode or signal type. Just one all inclusive fee.

Duvetyne adds about 1.5 - 2 hours to the job. It would be great if you could do this prior to calibration, it's really not very hard to do, just time consuming. If you are nervous about doing it I would be happy to add it on to the calibration. You buy the Duve and let's say $100 for me to install it. But, there are a number of posts here on the SPot that can help you with this so you can save some $ here. If we install the Duve, it is done right after inspection and before the cleaning starts.

I feel it is best if you let your set break in for about 3 months before calibrating it. The phosphors are a little hot out of the box and 3 months lets them mellow out a little. 3 months also gives the set good a chance to break in to make sure that nothing is going to fail. These CRTs change a lot in the first 300-400 hours so giving it a little time to break-in will help hold your calibration longer.

I have spent 100s and 100s of hours analyzing the Mits HD sets and I believe these tweaks and calibrations are the base requirements to get the most from your set.

It makes no sense to have your grayscale calibrated if you don't have the color decoder corrected. It is almost useless to do electrostatic focus without doing manual focus and there's no reason to do focus if you are not going to thoroughly clean ALL of the optics. Edge Enhancement impacts SVM and Sharpness. Gamma impacts Grayscale, Contrast and Brightness. Geometry impacts convergence. Convergence has a major impact on the final image, etc. etc. So, IMHO there is only one way to do a Mits HDTV 100% right. To me, it's not just another RPTV, it's your "Home Theater".

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Craig M
MGHomeTheater@earthlink.net