Ken, it looks like we'll only be passing it in Dolby Surround. Our DTV equipment vendor told us we could decode Dolby E from CBS and then encode DD 5.1 for our air signal but we don't seem to have a DP572 Dolby E decoder! We're still looking into this.

A quick question: What is the speed of WPEC-DT's digital sampling signal? I'm getting 2 channel stereo on WPEC-DT and only on WPEC-DT. My Yamaha manual says that the unit can handle a 96kHz signal, but "when inputing a digital signal higher than 48kHz, sound will be output as normal 2 channel stereo sound..." It advises that the coaxial input be used. I'm using the optical digital input and I really don't want to change it just for local WPB broadcasts, since I get CBS 4.1 from Miami perfectly.

David: I was out by the antenna farm today and it looks like another antenna has been added to the tallest tower. Could this be channel 5's hd antenna? BTW, how do they get that crane up there - helicopter?
Thanks for all of your great posts.

---------------------
Jake

Jake,

Ours is the closest tower to the intersection of 441 at Lantana Road. The next one out toward the SW is WPTV's new tower. Further out is WFLX.

The cranes are ordinarily hoisted up the side of the tower with a wench. The antennas are usually raised with a wench along one side, too but sometimes they use a helicopter.

Alan,

We are currently outputing a Dolby Digital in 5.1 signal with a Dolby Surround upmix durring CBS HD and your DD 5.1 decoder will only get DD 2.0 and be locked into front Left and Right on all other programming. This is all wrong as we have become aware. I have made our engineering department aware of this so that they can work with Dolby Laboratories to get our signal in complete compliance with Dolby Labs' standards.

I haven't heard from anyone before who can't decode our DD audio without resorting to a different method than they use for everyone else before. I certainly appreciate your informing us of this. I'll pursue rectifying this situation as quickly as possible.

Anyone else getting programming info and correct station ID now on WPEC 12-1 and 12-2? Everything is showing up correctly on my DST-3000 now. Thanks for putting the word through David.

I am not get programming info on WPEC or any other WPB digital channel. (HD200 tuner). Am I supposed to?

Great thread guys, I was thrilled to find a WPB thread for HDTV reception.

This is a tad on the hardware side, but a very Florida centric question so I am asking here.

I am about to move and make the HD leap. I will be moving to Military and Lantana (just a dab west on Lantana in Willoughby Farms) from what I have read, it looks like I should be able to hang a coat-hanger with some tin foil out the window and get reception. (only about 5 miles from most of the Antennas).

Does anyone live in this area and what has your experience been. I guess I'm really looking for an antenna recommendation, I'd like to avoid something external.

I went to the 100,000 watts site and used their GPS coordinates to locate the antenna on my map program, the only towers that weren't real close seem to be WTVX and UPN up near Stuart. Is that info correct?

I'm guessing from some of HIDEF Dave's posts, that at least some of the info is correct.

If you can point me in the right direction I'd sure appreciate it! Thanks in advance.

toddmoe - i have tried a variety of indoor antennas and I also live near your location. The Terk 55 was the worse, allowing me to pick up 2 or 3 channels. The Radio Shack 15-1890 was the middle of the road allowing me to pick up about 6 stations. The Radio Shack 15-1862 was the best and is what I currently use and allows me to pick up over 12 stations (including Miami stations). Unfortunately the antenna is discontinued, but ebay seems to have one available every now and then. Going price for the 15-1862 is $100, but well worth it!

oops - forgot to post a link to site that tested a bunch of indoor antennas:

http://www.projectorexpert.com/Pages/antin.html

Originally posted by toddmoe
I went to the 100,000 watts site and used their GPS coordinates to locate the antenna on my map program, the only towers that weren't real close seem to be WTVX and UPN up near Stuart. Is that info correct?


Hi, toddmoe - In case you haven't seen it, you can locate al the local stations relative to you and see a map at http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/address.asp

I live close to you and would recommend that you try an indoor antenna first before trying the outdoor ones. My investment in the SIRT151 Receiver was dependent on getting the signal without an outdoor antenna and to my surprise I get all the south florida Digital channels (including WLRN on 17-1 except WSVN-7, and WPLG-10) without any problem. since I get WFLX and WPBF it doesn't bother me not receiving the WSVN and WPLG stations.

WPBT = 2-1,2-2
CBS Miami = 4-1
CBS WPB =12-1,12-2
WPBF ABC =16-1
WLRN = 17-1, 17-2
Spannish channel (Sorry I forgot the name) =23-1
WFLX = 29-1
UPN = 32-1, 33-1 (One is Miami and the other is WPB)
WPB = 39-1
Two mor Spannish channels = 57-1, 61-1 (I am not sure about the numbers. I forgot)

Welcome aboard! good Luck

I am north of you guys (off Military Trail about two miles north of Okeechobee Blvd). I have the Jenson 940A - motorized, remote controlled with 45db amp - nice little antenna) and can only get CBS 12.1 and .2, ABC 16.1, FLX 28.1 and UPN 50.1 (all at about 98-100% strength). I have not been successful receiving anything from Miami.

I recently purchased a Stealthmaster 4228 UHF grid antenna along with the remote controller rotator. I will be installing it in my attic this weekend. As a test, I set it up in my living room resting against my coffee table and it received all the channels I get through the Jensen at just about the same strength. I found it interesting that this UHF antenna received PEC 13.1 and .2 at just about 95% strength - no need to add a VHF Yagi to the mast - yeehaw! A quick test of Miami stations still failed, though :-(

I wonder if an amp will help to pull those channels in or am I just too far north to get receive them? Anyone know someone in my area who is getting the Miami stations in? I am really interested in the PBS station and of course the NBC station as we are without those two here in WPB. I live in a condo with condo commandos so I cannot put the antenna on the roof.

Cheers,
GT

Bighitter,

You may find that our PSIP program info is intermittent for now as Transmitter Supervisor Jerry Rector is manually entering the info...it's not yet automated.


toddmoe,

Your biggest challenge for West Palm Beach market DTV reception will be WPBF-DT (ch. 16-1, remapped by your receiver to 25-1), and WTVX-DT as their transmitters are just west of Stuart in south Martin County. WPEC-DT, WFLX-DT and the upcoming WPTV-DT and WXEL-DT are all near Lantana Road at SR 441 and should be receivable on you tooth fillings.;)

Try a high-gain outdoor VHF/UHF or just their best outdoor UHF antenna from Radio Shack and point it NW.

David, thanks for the PSIP info. You can tell Jerry to take a break until you get it automated though. It's not like we can't look at the VHF PSIP for it.

I have been messing with my RS 15-2152 UHF/VHF antenna in my attic the last few days and it's true that your biggest challenge will be WPBF-DT (ABC) West of Stuart. I'm in Western Royal Palm Beach and I have to point it about 340 degrees to get 95+ on my Mitsubishi HD-5. The problem for me is WFLX-DT 29-1 (UHF 28). They must have a really weak signal because I get WFOR-DT just fine on back end of the UHF yagi but not them. I have a friend in Boynton that points to the antenna farm at the end of Lantana road and he gets everything just fine except WFLX-DT drops out. I'm going to try combining two antennas and see what happens. Still you would think that being so close to the transmitter that you would be able to pick it up with the old "coat-hanger".

Originally posted by David McRoy
Jake,

Ours is the closest tower to the intersection of 441 at Lantana Road. The next one out toward the SW is WPTV's new tower. Further out is WFLX.

The cranes are ordinarily hoisted up the side of the tower with a wench. The antennas are usually raised with a wench along one side, too but sometimes they use a helicopter.

Alan,

We are currently outputing a Dolby Digital in 5.1 signal with a Dolby Surround upmix durring CBS HD and your DD 5.1 decoder will only get DD 2.0 and be locked into front Left and Right on all other programming. This is all wrong as we have become aware. I have made our engineering department aware of this so that they can work with Dolby Laboratories to get our signal in complete compliance with Dolby Labs' standards.

I haven't heard from anyone before who can't decode our DD audio without resorting to a different method than they use for everyone else before. I certainly appreciate your informing us of this. I'll pursue rectifying this situation as quickly as possible.

David, tell me you mean WINCH...

looks like nascar on fox today is not widescreen :(

anyone having dropouts again on wflx?? this is the second nascar race in a row where their reception is horrible!!

Originally posted by hdtvis4me
looks like nascar on fox today is not widescreen :(

The race is in widescreen and DD 5.1, but apparently WFLX never got the memo that said all Fox sporting events will be such. In fact, WFLX hasn't had DD 5.1 audio for ANY of the Nascar races they've broadcast so far. I won't waste any more time calling them about this or any of their other "problems". If they can't put out a quality product in spite of all the feedback (negative AND positive) that they receive from their viewers, then they may as well just go off the air.

Just curious id anyone else was seeing the motion artifact during No Doubt on the Grammys. Is this a 1080i, nature of MPEG, or transmission problem??

anyone watching the grammies? any dropouts in audio?

occasional audio drops and pixelation. I personally think the PQ and Audio overall has been MOST EXCELLENT.

HiDef Dave,

I have consistently noticed the audio level on WPEC during HD broadcasts is very low compared to other channels such as WFOR and WPBF. Have you noticed this?

anseK

Guys,

We suddenly went off the air yesterday afternoon. Our Chief Engineer, George Danner and Engineer Keith Betts went out to the transmitter site and restored service.

I, too, have observed ocassional pixelation and dropouts since this episode, along with low audio.

By the way, just to confirm, we are only sending Dolby Surround via DD 2/0 for the Grammys show. WFOR-DT is sending DD 5.1, seemingly, except that the center (dialog) channel is on all three front channels along with what's supposed to be there. :rolleyes:

We'll have a pow-wow about all this in the morning.

Could anyone tell me if the Grammies were broadcast in DD 5.1?

Thanks in advance,

Yes, they were, but only in some markets.

I live on Embassy Drive (off Palm Beach Lakes/Congress)
I can get WPBF most of the time without any problem, Channel 29 most of the time (so long as I dont bump the bowtie ), and Channel 34 some of the time.

What do I need to do to get WPEC and some of the others? I live in a townhousem. Do I need a huge antenna outside or something?

I have an old Panasonic HDTV receiver box (the one with the firewire). Would switching to one of those newer samsung units pull in a better signal?

Thanks,

Ed

Originally posted by David McRoy
the Grammys show. WFOR-DT is sending DD 5.1, seemingly, except that the center (dialog) channel is on all three front channels along with what's supposed to be there.

The broad center channel was quite noticeable and annoying, but can anyone confirm WFOR was really sending 5.1?

My Yamaha amp almost always had the Dolby Digital light on for both channels 12 and 4. Some commercials seemed to switch the DolbyDigital word off and just show Digital.

pogo

WFOR was sending Dolby Digital 5.1. During the musical numbers I heard sound coming from all five speakers, and the channel indicators on my AV receiver confirmed this.

Thanks.

Looks like its time to check my cabling. I took the HD receiver out to help someone else get set up and must have messed up putting it back in the cabinet.

Just because your DD decoder indicates "AC-3", "Dolby Digital 5.1" or "3/2" when you're tuned to a DTV station doesn't mean you're actually getting DD 5.1 audio. I know, because my station and many, many others are sending audio streams that are masquerading as DD 5.1 when it's really not.

WFOR-DT was sending an AC-3 DD 5.1 flag last night during the Grammys but it wasn't correctly encoded...as a result we got dialog across all three front channels mixed with discrete front left and right and discrete rear left and right plus the LFE channel. (HDNet has done this, too.) My station, WPEC-DT, decodes the DD 2/0 Dolby surround feed from CBS HD and encodes it as DD 5.1. Neither of the two stations is supposed to be doing these things and they'll be eventually rectified. But be aware that you're not yet getting what you're supposed to be getting.

The "growing pains" continue. :rolleyes:

David - any update on the current drop out and pixelization problems? Saturday night I tried watching "The Agency" and finally gave up due to the video-audio problems. It was during that storm front coming through, but my digital signal strength was still showing 86 - 93. Last night the Grammy's were better, but still many more pixelization problems than previously.

Len,

I'm informed that our encoder has developed a problem. We are in contact with our DTV equipment vendor in search of a remedy.

Once again WFLX-DT was off the air last night. I guess that I'm going to have to arrange my antennas to try for WSVN-DT.

good luck - their signal is not the greatest

Good luck is right. I can occasionally get them due to tropo conditions but even with the 4228 25ft in the air and a CM Spartan3 pre-amp I still only pull a 15-20 signal on them normally.

Thanks. I guess I won't even try then. Dave, I know that WFLX uses some of your news resources. Do you know why they have so many problems with their DT?

Originally posted by Bighitter
Good luck is right. I can occasionally get them due to tropo conditions but even with the 4228 25ft in the air and a CM Spartan3 pre-amp I still only pull a 15-20 signal on them normally.

From 60-70 miles away, my usual WFLX-DT reception is in the 70s with a basic RS UHF/VHF antenna (no pre-amp) at 25 feet aimed at the Hallandale towers. (All of the Miami channels come in at 100 from about 25 miles.)

At the same time, my usual WPEC-DT reading is in the teens. David?

Originally posted by ElectricPickle
Thanks. I guess I won't even try then. Dave, I know that WFLX uses some of your news resources. Do you know why they have so many problems with their DT?

Actually, no, I don't know. We produce all of Fox 29's newscasts here at our studio and just send them to the WFLX studio live over a microwave link. So, we're just "one more source" of programming for them.

Bighitter,
The WSVN-DT signal is on VHF Ch. 8, and the 4228 is UHF only antenna, so it has no gain on VHF signal, as a matter of fact, it's very inefficient at that frequency. When I lived in Boca, I had one, and at the beginning I tried to use it for both, but didn't work for WSVN and WPLG, since both are on VHF, and you are farther north. I had to add a VHF-Hi antenna in order to get those stations. Just check your analog signal on WSVN and WPLG, and you'll probably get a weak signal. Check for some of my older postings (about a year ago) explaining what antenna set-up I used and where I obtained them.

Best viewing,

Jose
W2JD

Good Point W2JD,

I should have thought about that before posting the reply. I guess I had the thought of the RS DBT in my head still from when I sold it to ElectricPickle and was thinking UHF only. Indeed someone with a decent VHF antenna should be able to pick it up. Thanks for correcting me on that as I would hate to lead others astray.

My Pre-AMP is a VHF/UHF pre-amp so it is not filtering out the VHF frequencies which is why I still get decent signals from them just not enough to lock in a picture most of the time. However last nite I was pulling 75%+ signals on both channels.

I have my antenna in the attic so there is no chance of getting WSVN. I may have to eventually put up a mast, but only if I have to. I guess I'm hoping that WFLX will get their stuff together.

WLRN 17.1 (20.1) is finally broadcasting the HD Demo Loop and it looks terrible. I am no expert but, I am willing to bet they are allocating to much bandwidth to the sub-channel and it is cause poor picture quality on the main channel.

Does anyone have an updated "go-live" date for WPTV-D, W. Palm Beach NBC HD? For such a brand new progressive, "state-of-the-art" facility, they sure seem behind the curve about broadcasting in HD ;-( Thanks.

I sent an email to Bill Peterson and WPTV a few weeks ago and this is his reply:
Feb 6, 2003


We are just completing construction on a new tower, which was needed to
accommodate the additional antennas. Our antennas were lifted to the top of
the tower last week. The transmission lines have been installed. Now, we
have to test the transmission lines and connect them to the transmitters.
Our digital transmitter, on Channel 55, has been installed and tested, but
is having a minor problem that the manufacturer is remedying. That's
probably more than you want to know.


The bottom line is we anticipate having Channel 55 broadcasting in early
March.


Sincerely,


Bill Peterson
WPTV



Everything I see says Mar 21.

That's good news. I'm looking forward to watching WPTV-DT.

Sorry I don't have the model number as it has been a year since the install but I have an all in one antenna in the attic that also does FM and I am in the Coral Springs area. I am having a lot of trouble with channel 10 and channel 7. On 10 it is all static and I get the alternate audio message every time I change the channel and go back to it. Anyone else get this? I do not receive any channel 10 digital channel at all. I don't believe I get one on 7 but I can pick up all the other Fox's in the area. I am not using a booster as I tried one from RS and it made no difference.

I have a DTC-100 so I can put a second antenna on the "B" side if that will help. Please advise what I can do while keeping the antenna in the attic. I thought it was a UHF problem but from reading it seems it is actually a VHF problem is this correct? TIA

I get everything in Coral Springs with a little trouble from 25.1 WPBF in stuart. It's in and out. I use two RS UHF Yagi's at 65', one N and one S split with the pre amp on th N yagi to help WPBF.


Originally posted by ECHOSLOB
Sorry I don't have the model number as it has been a year since the install but I have an all in one antenna in the attic that also does FM and I am in the Coral Springs area. I am having a lot of trouble with channel 10 and channel 7. On 10 it is all static and I get the alternate audio message every time I change the channel and go back to it. Anyone else get this? I do not receive any channel 10 digital channel at all. I don't believe I get one on 7 but I can pick up all the other Fox's in the area. I am not using a booster as I tried one from RS and it made no difference.

I have a DTC-100 so I can put a second antenna on the "B" side if that will help. Please advise what I can do while keeping the antenna in the attic. I thought it was a UHF problem but from reading it seems it is actually a VHF problem is this correct? TIA

Originally posted by ECHOSLOB
Sorry I don't have the model number as it has been a year since the install but I have an all in one antenna in the attic that also does FM and I am in the Coral Springs area. I am having a lot of trouble with channel 10 and channel 7. On 10 it is all static and I get the alternate audio message every time I change the channel and go back to it. Anyone else get this? I do not receive any channel 10 digital channel at all. I don't believe I get one on 7 but I can pick up all the other Fox's in the area. I am not using a booster as I tried one from RS and it made no difference.

I have a DTC-100 so I can put a second antenna on the "B" side if that will help. Please advise what I can do while keeping the antenna in the attic. I thought it was a UHF problem but from reading it seems it is actually a VHF problem is this correct? TIA

Yes, WSVN-DT is on channel 8 and WPLG-DT is on channnel 9, both of which are VHF. Maybe you need to re-aim your antenna toward those stations?

Go to www.antennaweb.org for a radial map of station directions relative to your house.

They are looking at a mid-April launch. The delay is due to tower issues.

Originally posted by David McRoy
They are looking at a mid-April launch. The delay is due to tower issues.

What kind of tower issues? The other posting from this week seemed to indicate their only problem was from the transmission equipment.

wflx 29 is messing up the NASCAR race again. It started in widescreen, but is now in 4:3 :(

Also - MAJOR pixelation!!

back to ws - not sure why it kept switching

Fired up a new hd-sat520 for the first time this week and have a couple of questions. I can go full screen on our new plasma with any of the D* channels and with the ota locals non-hd. But unless the local HD stations are actually broadcasting in hd, I'm stuck with 4:3. This is correct?
Channel 25-1 comes in great, but Channel 25 is horrible. Why is that?
If 25 was good, I could drop the locals at D*. It appears to me that the local ota pictures are better than the locals on D*. Is that the compression thing? Would it help if I aimed a directional uhf ant. at 25? I'm currently using a rs "the stick" vhf/uhf ant. located in the space above my garage at Hypoluxo and Congress aimed NW.
Thanks

--------------
Jake

Jake

I have a HD-Sat520 as well. The ratio cannot be changed on the DTV signals. They are sent 4:3 unless they are sending HD which will be 16:9. Analog signals can be viewed in different formats if you use the Native mode. I have DirecTV and cannot change the ratio if I have it set to 720p -- they're all displayed in 16:9.

WPBF is supposed to broadcast 24/7 in DTV or HD on 25-1. They have the same content on the analog station as far as I can tell. I just hid the analog channel so I don't have to see both. Channel 25-1 is broadcast on a different frequency and just assigned that number-- so your reception may be different for the two. Also you don't need an excellent signal to get a good digital picture (the whole reason for broadcasting in DTV). If the receiver can pull it in fairly decently you will have a normal picture.

Channel 25-1 is broadcast from southern Martin Co. so you need a directional antenna with some gain to receive it well. You're close to the other PB Co stations and should have great signal from them.

Jeff

I was under the impression that HD-Sat520 was identical to the Sony HD200. If this is the case, you can manually select 480P and allow TV stretch modes on Channel 25-1.

Joel - Thanks for the info. I'm sure that is in the instructions but I haven't found it yet. Do you output everything in 480P? I was told to use 1080i
through component output to our panny sd.
Astrojeff - I'll try a directional for 25 and see if it makes a difference. Thanks

I normally leave the receiver on variable 1. I get excellent reception off the side of an attic UHF yagi on channel 25 SDTV. I seldom watch 25-1 unless it is an HDTV broadcast.

Dave:

How are you at WPEC-DT coming with your Dolby problem. Transiently last night I thought that I got 5.1 sound on program material which reverted to 2 channel stereo on commercials.

Nothing has changed yet, Alan. We think we know what we need to do but our engineers are currently involved with other projects such as fixing things that break and moving our news video editing operation to a tapeless, digital Avid non-linear editing system (though still SD for now.) Our commercial playback and syndication programming is already played-out from servers rather than tape.

So, until we can correct the audio on our HD channel (12-1) you will continue to get a Dolby Surround ProLogic downmix via DD 5.1 rather than genuine Dolby Digital 5.1 on CBS-HD programming and 2-channel stereo on everything else. (Ironically, our SD channel 12-2 audio is already in a format that allows you to decode ProLogic or 2-channel stereo in your own decoder as you wish, the way the HD channel [I]should[I] be set-up, although it also currently lacks DD 5.1 capability. I wish we could fix this overnight but our engineers have their priorities and I'm sure they'll revisit this in time. And they do read this thread, so thanks for mentioning it again!

Originally posted by greenknight
Joel - Thanks for the info. I'm sure that is in the instructions but I haven't found it yet. Do you output everything in 480P? I was told to use 1080i
through component output to our panny sd.
Astrojeff - I'll try a directional for 25 and see if it makes a difference. Thanks

I live probably just north of you (Hypoluxo Rd & Hagen Ranch Rd) and use the Sony HD-200 receiver with a Zenith Silver Sensor OTA antenna sitting on top of my entertainment center pointing toward the antenna farm on 441 just s. of Lantana Rd. where all the OTA-D channels but WPBF - 25.1 are broadcast. I get in everything including 25.1 WPBF perfectly (signals are usually in between the 'normal' and 'good' range on my Sony HD-200 receiver).

Also, I find that watching almost everything set at the 1080i format is more pleasing to me; regular DirecTV channels set on 480p seem very pixelated, but using 1080i with all DirecTV channels seem much smoother (my receiver is connected to my tv via component). Not to mention the 1080i format for 509, 543, and 199 are a must. Amazing!

When watching some cable channels through the HD-200 (like WPTV - NBC which still is not broadcasting their digital signals yet), I see no difference between setting the receiver to either 480p, 720p, or 1080i, so I just leave it set to 1080i. I try to watch everything in full, stretch mode which is better for the tv. When watching an HD program on 12.1 (CBS) or 25.1 (ABC), the commercials are of course in 4:3, but a little black side bars here and there shouldn't harm it too much. When I watch 25.1 in HD, I may set it to 720p which is what ABC broadcasts their HD signals in for some reason unknown (while the rest of the world broadcasts in 1080i ;-) If I were you, I would just play with it and use whatever looks best to you. Enjoy!

WTVX-DT (34-1) shares tower space with WPBF.

I am in a ground floor apartment near Military and Atlantic and seem to get everything except ABC (25-1) from the Radio Shack Bow Tie. I am trying the Silver Sensor today on the patio to try to get ABC before next weeks Oscar broadcast. Am I just wasting my time trying to get that signal from Martin County or is anyone getting ABC in Delray Beach from an "indoor" antenna.

Thanks,

Jeff

I live in Boynton Beach of Jog Rd south of Woolbright. The Silver Senor worked great for me indoors on top of my TV. I was able to receive WPBF ABC 25-1, WPEC CBS 12-1, WTVX UPN 34-1 and WFLX FOX 29-1. All stations were received with a strong signal without the need to move the antenna when switching stations. When I pointed the antenna south I was able to receive WPBT PBS 2-1, WFOR CBS 4-1 and WAMI IND 69-1. I have since moved the antenna to my attic where it out performs my RS-U75R.

I am in far West Boca and have no trouble picking up WPBF with the Silver Sensor.

Originally posted by robert1251
I am in far West Boca and have no trouble picking up WPBF with the Silver Sensor.

Does anyone know the product number of the Silver Sensor? I'm interested in whether stepping up to this from a Double bow-tie would help me get WPEC-DT (VHF 13-1) up here in Stuart.

Thanks

Not sure of the product number, but Circuit city carries the Zenith version for about $39 so you can try it and return it if it doesn't work for you.

I am at Military and Lantana and I use 2 silver sensors in my attic because I have found them to be very directional, so I point one north to the the antennas up there and the second west to Fox, CBS etc., this works very well for me.

Not sure if this is my imagination or not, but it seems like the transmitter power is lower in the morning and early part of the day because without moving a thing I go from no signal to 100% in the evening or afternoons.

I guess this could be atmospheric but there doesn't appear to be any correlation to the weather. So I guess what I'm saying is, Sat morning might not the be best time to test this out.

Thanks,

After I posted my message yesterday about the Silver Sensor, I found info about it. (I mistakenly thought it was a Radio Shack product).

When using two of them is there anything special to know about connecting them? I assume it's a parrallel connection?

Thanks,

James

Today, March 21, was the target date for NBC Channel 5 to go digital however no joy.

A previous post said the new date was mid-April; Does anyone know when we can get NBC digital in South Florida?

While surfing the war coverage on DTV, I was surprized to see WBZL transmitting NBC's programming. A foreshadow of the hopefully not too distant future of having all the networks on DTV available.

I sent an Email to NBC West Palm Beach WPTV asking when was the schedule launch date for WPTV HDTV Channel 55 and here is the response.


The new target date is April 15. Thanks for your patience.

Peter Roghaar
______________
WPTV News Director
561-653-5750
pnroghaar@scripps.com



He responded to my Email right away.

So hopefully if everything goes OK we will have NBC in South Florida pretty soon!!!

Thanks,

Dr Guava

Why is WPEC not passing the NCAA Tournament HD feed?

James, Basically I've got 2 equal length cables running from each antenna into a high bandwidth splitter/combiner, from there it runs from the attic to the TV area, I am putting it through a cheapo RCA signal amp, and then to the converter. I have read that if you don't use the equal length cables that it can create problems with multi-path.

Even though I know the amp is low quality it still makes the difference between me picking up some channels or not. With this setup I can pick up all of the PB stations and about 4 Miami stations. I am eager to see what results I get with a high quality amp. Anyone have any suggestions as to where to pick one up in the Lake Worth area?

Well it looks like someone at WPEC is not flipping the switch for HD. I am glad someone at WFOR is awake.

Does anyone know if WPEC is having problems?

So what's the consensus when it comes to HDTV antennas in the Lake Worth area?

At this point in time I'm using a cheap antenna that just has two metal poles (collapsable) jetting out from a center point... its hardly anything special; matter of fact I think its just the standard UHF antenna given away with portable TVs. The only channels I get are WPEC-DT and WFLX-DT (no where near full signal I might add). I'd like to be able to get all the channels available to me in the area.

Just alittle background information on my area:
I live in Winston Trails so I can't exactly have an outdoor antenna. I'm also not to sure about how viable the attic may be as its filled with insulation. After reading the first few pages in this thread I'm thinking about getting the Zenith Silver Sensor. Also, let it be known I got absolutely no signal with a Terk 55 in this room, no clue why.

Originally posted by pcmike
So what's the consensus when it comes to HDTV antennas in the Lake Worth area?

At this point in time I'm using a cheap antenna that just has two metal poles (collapsable) jetting out from a center point... its hardly anything special; matter of fact I think its just the standard UHF antenna given away with portable TVs. The only channels I get are WPEC-DT and WFLX-DT (no where near full signal I might add). I'd like to be able to get all the channels available to me in the area.

Just alittle background information on my area:
I live in Winston Trails so I can't exactly have an outdoor antenna. I'm also not to sure about how viable the attic may be as its filled with insulation. After reading the first few pages in this thread I'm thinking about getting the Zenith Silver Sensor. Also, let it be known I got absolutely no signal with a Terk 55 in this room, no clue why.

First, for clarification purposes only, there is no such thing as an HDTV antenna. I want to do my best to dispel that misconception because it only causes unnecessary confusion. There really is no silver bullet when it comes to antennas. What works for one person may not work for another. I think you are going down the right path by starting small and working your way up. I live south of Woolbright on Jog Rd. I am having tremendous success with my Silver Sensor. I was able to receive all Palm Beach stations with the antenna on top of my TV using a Sony HD200 receiver. I make mention of my receive because the new generation of receivers have far better reception than their predecessors. I moved the antenna to my attic where, like you, I have large amounts of insulation. I was pleasantly surprised to see a significant jump in my signal strength across all channels. In my current setup, I have the Silver Senor pointed south where I am able to get WPBT 2-1, WFOR 4-1 and WBZL 39-1. I have a Radio Shack U-75R pointed north where I receive WPEC 12-1, WTVX 34-1, WPBF 25-1 and WFLX 29-1. I have the two antennas connected to a combiner where they then connect to my receiver. Depending on your receiver and the channels you would like to receive, I believe your search my end with the Silver Senor but, everyone's situation is different.

PCMike,

I agree with Ansek 100%...I live near you in Smith Farm and also use the Sony HD-200 receiver with a Zenith Silver Sensor OTA antenna sitting on top of my entertainment center pointing toward the antenna farm on 441 just s. of Lantana Rd. where all the OTA-DT channels but WPBF- DT (25.1) and WTVX-DT (34.1) are broadcast. I get in everything including 25.1 and 34.1 perfectly (signals are usually in between the 'normal' and 'good' range on my Sony HD-200 receiver). Since I recieve all the major OTA-DT networks from W. Palm, I don't care about the Miami stations. I suppose I could probably get those stations as well if I moved the antenna into the attic, but choose not to go through the hassle for redundancy purposes.

I highly recommend going to Circuit City for a Zenith Silver Sensor; it should be all you need. If you're still not receiving everything in with a decent signal, I guess you could add a RS amplifier, but living about 1 block from you, I don't find it to be necessary. BTW - your experience with the Terk-55 seems to be the consensus...it's a piece of junk that doesn't work and costs more than double the Silver Sensor.

WLRN-DT Off Air?

I have not received the WLRN-DT signal on Ch.17-1 and 2 lately. When I check signal level, I get no signal on DT Ch.20, which is their on-air DT channel. Is anyone one else experiencing this or is it my problem. Before I was getting a better than 90% signal on my HD100.

Best viewing,

Jose
W2JD

PS- I posted this also on the So. Florida thread.

Hi, I'm in Hobe Sound about 20 miles north of Palm Beach. I'm getting 12, 25, 29, 34 and 59 (locally) via a Blake JBX-21 Antenna on my roof (single story) and a Zenith 1080 Directv HD reciever. I have the Blake on a Channel Master 9521A rotor. Just installed the Blake, etc. yesterday.

One thing I did not install per some of the feedback on this forum is a preamp. Most of the information I saw suggested that preamps are primarily for analog signals and that sometimes preamps amplify the noise such that digital channels are lost or they overload the system.

Some friends who live just a little further south of me pull in about 6 more digital channels from North Miami (about 80 miles away) and Ft Lauderdale (about 65 miles away). I would love to have some of those channels as they cover some bases that the Palm Beach stations I get do not.

Curiously, I am pulling in channels 6-1 and 6-2 (digital 58) from near Orlando (???), so this mysterious long range success make me wonder what is really possible if I added a preamp. Also rarely, but sometimes, I have pulled in the NBC digital station from Fort Myers with cheap rabbit ears (but I am guessing that is just troposphere signal bouncing, as I can't get it now with the big Blake).

I assume the preamp I would need would be both UHF and VHF (since I do want to keep Channel 12 (digital 13) VHF station). I am looking at the Winegard AP8275 or the AP8283 (which one do I need?), on the premise that they appear to be among the most powerful in terms of db gain (opinions?)

However, if I buy it and it doesn't make any difference (or worse, it generates overload such that I can't even get some channels I get now, have I basically goofed (as I would need to cut the cable running up to the antenna to put this amp in the middle- failure to make a difference would just add a second splice in the cable (and apparently some signal loss).

Also, various online notes seem to imply that there should be no break between the inside part of the preamp package and the outside amp, but I do have a cable grounding block between the 2 ends.

Anyone tried preamps in the North Palm, Jupiter, Tequesta, Stuart area? Success or no meaningful difference? This is all purely about pulling in more HD- I do not use the non-HD channels at all. Thanks for any replies.

HobeSoundDarryl

Darryl, I've had surprisingly good luck with preamps. I know that many people in the forums have "warned" against them, but it is absolutely the difference between getting me getting about 8 added channels.

Before using one I got only WPB channels and now I get almost all the Miami channels all of the time. I'm using dual Silver Sensors stacked in my attic. With one pointed about due north and the other southwest.

You might want to run to Home Depot (yes I know sounds crazy but..) they sell a Leviton preamp. Give that a try first, it actually worked pretty well and is variable. If you see a big difference then return the Leviton to HD and buy a winegard or channel master or something a bit more high end.

The Leviton got the channels for me, but the signal wasn't too stable. I recently purchased a channel master and now I get all the same channels but the signal is very stable.

There is a noticeable difference in the PQ between the same networks so its nice to have the option.

Well, there is my 2 cents worth, good luck!

I am experiencing audio break up on WPEC during today's basketball game. I am only experiencing this problem with WPEC. My signal strength is very high so I know it is not signal drop. Is anyone else experiencing audio break up on WPEC?

Has anyone tried the remote rotators in the attic?

If you have the room and you have the need, it should work. Fortunately, I live halfway between Ftl and WPB so I am aiming toward Ftl (better programming) and I am able to get WPB off the back of the antenna.

You may want to consider a less directional antenna. As I'm sure you know, with digital broadcast, they either work or they don't. As an aside, I seem to get a fair amount of dropouts, even on seemingly strong signals. I just put my Radio Shack antenna in the attic (2-story) about 15 minutes ago. Compared to the reception I had with it on the patio, it seems to be somewhat improved.

jd

You can also couple more than one antenna.

I have a Panasonic TU-DST52 unopened in the box that I don't need. If you have an interest, PM me 'cause I have no idea how to use Ebay!!
Thanks

David,

Any word on WPTV?

I recently installed a ChannelMaster 4228 in my attic with a 9521A antenna remote controlled rotator and an amplifier. The install was not toop hard to do and the results are brilliant. I typically have three positions that I rotate it to: 192 - for Miami stations, 213 - for PEC and FLX, and 333 for for the ABC and UPN affiliates. I am in West Palm Beach and am surprised at what I can pick up from Miami.

Also, the antenna is UHF only, but I still get channel 13 (PEC) at 99-100% strength--perhaps due to the proximity of the transmitter (aprox. 11 miles)? Channel 13 is VHF after all, I didn't think a UHF antenna would help.

I have pictures available if you'd like to see them.

Cheers,
GT

That is what I thought.
My concern was the remote controlling the attic antenna, from the inside of the house.
I have a 2 story with attic, and TV is on 1st floor.

What was you biggest problem?

Are there pre-sets on the remote, so you can set it up to pre-position points?

I really didn't have any problem. If anything, snaking the wires through the walls was a pain, but do-able, and of course crawling around the incredibly hot attic on what was the hottest day of the winter in February was simply miserable.

I only had to go from the attic down one floor, not two, just make sure you buy enough cable length. The RG6 shouldn't be a problem, I purchased a 75' run of antenna rotater cable at Ratshack for about $30, if I remember correctly.

With the remote control unit you can dial in a cardinal direction easily enough, I haven't looked into programming it to rotate to 333 degrees when I press say channel 16 or 50 (which are in that direction). The unit automatically powers off after 10 minutes of inactivity and has worked flawlessly for me. The amplifier install was simple too.

Cheers,
GT

Thanks
When I was in the attic, I noticed that since the signals are weak, any movement by me would insight reflections and cause mis alignments.
This is why the rotor is such a great idea.
And as you stated, you can tune out multipath (to some degree) for different channels.

My concern was how did you mount the rotor to the beams, but I guess it is just drill and screw pipes to connect the rotor and ant mast.

One last question:
Is the box the receiver, wired to the rotor, and in the attic, and the remote is the only device that is in the living area?

The pictures in Channel Master show 3 boxes, 1 rotor, 1 control unit, 1 remote.

I have that same rotor (9521A) and it does offer the terrific opportunity of working with the rotation until you are optimized and then "tagging" that direction with a programmed channel number. In other words, I can work the rotor back and forth to max out the signal using the on screen signal meter, and then program that direction in as a channel number.

Just last night, I was working to optimize for distant (from me) Miami stations. Once I found the strongest signal for 2-1, I locked it in as "2", 4-1 as channel "4". etc. Now I can simply enter "2" or "4" and the rotor will turn the antenna to that location.

Also, you can turn off the auto shutdown feature so that the tiny little rotor box keeps displaying the current channel if you like.

There are only really 2 "parts" in your living room- the remote and a tiny little controller box (about the size of an old betamax tape). A wire runs out of that box and up to the actual rotor. The remote is bare bones (channel numbers- 0-9, channel up/down, and power). But...

Using one of the Universal Remote Inc. remotes (my model is the MX-700), it is not too difficult to set up the "FAV"(orite) buttons to hold macros that will allow you to hit one button on the remote (the channel you seek) and have it switch to that channel on your tuner box, set up your reciever/TV/etc. with any special settings you desire for the channel, AND send the command to the rotor controller to rotate to that channel.

For example, when I get home I can click the "on" button to run a macro that fires everything up and display the "FAV"(orite channels list) to show the list of DTV/HDTV channels. Then, I can click "CBS" or "FOX" or "ABC" buttons to make it all work. I don't work for Universal Remote, but I do believe that relative to remote controls it doesn't get much better than this- truly one touch (and ONE remote) for everything.

The MX-700 is a very capable "learn" remote and I am still to find practically any other remote feature that it can't learn. Macros on practically any button gave me all the flexibility I could seek. And knowing that it could do this is specifically why I chose the 9521A rotor setup. If you are going to go with a rotor, I endorse it and if you don't mind paying (too much) for a remote control, that MX-700 is fannnnntastic (you might do some global searches on this forum for other people's opinions about the MX series of remotes).

Finally, the rotor really helps- I can't believe I am in Hobe Sound and pulling in a DTV channel from Orlando (I thought even large UHF antennas were generally limited to about 100 miles). If you can make it all work in your attic, you should go for it. It's cheap and what a difference it can make.

Darryl

Thanks Darryl;
Now I understand.
Since I will have a wiring problem, I would put the controller in the attic.

That was the intent of my questions.

Will the remote have a strong enough signal to get to the receiver in the attic, which is 2 floor away.

I have no way of running wires in the concrete walls.

I guess I will first have to try it to see if the remote will control the rotor that is in the attic.

There are ways to do what you want, but they are not necessarily the best ways. If the controller goes out of line of sight of the remote, you are going to have to use one of those wireless devices that converts the remotes signal to radio waves (to send it upstairs) and then back to infrared when it gets there (to make the box read your instructions).

I've tried one of these in the past, and it worked o.k. most of the time. There are even some that apparently work very well. I'm a bit of a "purist" when it comes to such things, so I would exhaust every option to somehow route the cable up to your attic before going to these wireless options.

CBS construction can really limit the options of running wires after the home is built. But some walls may not be block and you might have a path to your attic through these (by dropping the wire down from above). If your setup is such that all nearby walls are block, this does create some issues. One option might be to take the wire outside (through the block), run it up to the attic wall inside very thin plastic PVC (conduit) and then back into your attic. I don't know the specifics of lightning risk with this, but these rotors are generally thought of as being used as outdoor devices, so the cable can be set up to run outside (consult with a knowledgable electrician for any specific issues). If you do it, you can paint the PVC the same color as your house and it will blend in pretty well. The rotor cable is very thin- I'd say about half the diameter of RG-6 cable (at most).

If that won't do, I've seen lots of these wireless devices and picked up one set from...

http://www.smarthome.com/wirelessir.html

...though I know some of these are available locally from the Shack, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. Again, the one set that I tried worked pretty well for me, but they sometimes would miss a signal. With this rotor, you won't have a way to specifically know that it missed a chunk of the channel unless you go eyeball the antenna or go up to your attic and look at the channel indicator on the box (a clue will be that the signal doesn't come in or that the strength meter is not as strong as usual). I imagine you having to check too often such that it might become a bit of a pain. But, ultimately that's up to you.

I hope this is helpful. If I can answer anything else, please let me know.

Darryl

Darryl

I was reading your post from 4/3. What amp, if any did you buy? I live in Tequesta and have a Channel Master antenna. I am using a Radioshack amp which has variable gain up to 25-30db. I set it to approximately the middle of the range. I get the WPB stations well. Occasionally, I can pull in Miami stations at night: channel 2-1 and 6-1. I would like to get better reception of channel 2, if possible. My antenna is mounted on the roof at 2 1/2 stories. I'm not using a rotor. I just have it pointed at approx. 190 degrees.

Jeff

Jeff

Your idea made me think.
I am now on my way to buy the CM rotor.

I have a RG-6 cable that was set asside for an FM antenna.
I think I can use the inside and shield for 2 wires, and use the shield of another for the ground. It is the cable wire going upstairs.
I think since the shield of the FM RG-6 is islolated I will then have the 3 wires.

The cable RG-6 shield is a ground, so I hope I won't have any ground loops.

I again assume that the common for the rotor controller is a ground type and any interference will only be when rotating.

George,

If I understand what you are proposing, you've moved into a realm beyond me. I don't know much about using layers of RG-6 (if that's what you're saying) to ultimately replicate the 3 wires that connects the rotor controller to the rotor. Perhaps I am reading your idea incorrectly.

However, if you already have some RG-6 cable that is not going to be used, you could buy the 3-wire cable necessary for the rotor and thoroughly attach it to the RG-6 (maybe duct tape), then pull the RG-6 down, effectively pulling the cable through the same space so that you can have the rotor wire in the wall. If the RG-6 can be pulled from attic to entertainment room, this should work.

If you think you have some space that both could actually fit, hook up a strong piece of cord (rope) with the cable and pull both (cord and rotor cable) down. Then, tie the RG-6 and the cord together and pull the RG-6 back up (or this might be even easier if you switch the direction of these pulls). Then you would have a free RG-6 to use for whatever (Digital FM radio is coming soon, and we might someday end up with some DTV channels switching back to VHF frequencies), and the rotor cable run without drilling new holes. I hope I explained that well. Will that work?

One other bit of info hit me since that last post. Unlike practically every other piece of hardware in the equation, this thing does not need to be on your video stack. The controller could be on the other wall in your room (still forward from where you might sit) and work out just fine. So, if when looking at your TV you have the video equipment stack to the right, the rotor contoller box doesn't have to be there with it. Instead you might put it to the far left wall (or vice-versa). The point is that this is the one piece of equipment that could be just about anywhere around your TV viewing area and still work fine. Maybe the wall opposite your equipment is not cement block. If your TV is in a corner this probably won't help much at all, but I thought I would throw it in just in case.

Darryl

Jeff,

Per a lot of research and interaction I am going with a Winegard 4700 preamp. It is not the most powerful (not even rated as strong as the one you have- which may turn out to be bad news for me), but the strongest model would have probably overloaded my reciever (I am already getting some pretty strong local signals with the Blake/rotor combination). It is really about pulling in a "few more channels" (plus the Orlando reception has spiked my hopes because you just can't have too many FOX affiliates, right? ;))

I am in a single story (so your input is cutting into my hopeful expectations on more than one front); I guesstimate the antenna is only about 25-30 ft above the ground. But maybe the rotor + amp will work some magic. In testing (rotor positions) I have been pulling in some weak signals from Melbourne, and something is showing up from just south of Daytona (how again, I don't know). Or maybe the amp will disappoint. At only about $40, it's worth trying in the aim to get a little more HD.

Question to you: is your amp the type you mount outside very near the antenna, or is it at the end of the cable (inside)? If the latter, apparently, it makes a big difference in the equation. That Winegard is meant to be mounted as close as possible to the antenna (as in "on the pole") with a very short length of cable from antenna to amp.

If you like, I can post an update after I hook it up and let you know how much more (or less) it gets me. It probably won't arrive until late next week, so it is probably a "next weekend" project. If it does deliver much more from the South, you might want to get a rotor. At 2 1/2 stories, you might be able to go for Cuban TV (or at least some of the Key West stations).

Darryl

I was disappointed watching the NCAA Final Basketball game because of the frequent pixelization on the WPB/CBS (12-1) HD channel. My digital signal strength consistently shows 93 - 100 so I don't think the problem is attributable to my antenna. Is WPEC aware of the problem and what is being done to correct it?

Update, I have the rotor installed.
I am an engineer, and after buying the unit, I find that it runs on about 15 volts AC to drive the rotor.
So, I use the ground for a common reference point, and then use the isolated RG-6 for the 2 directional feeds.
All in all it works like a champ.

Now I can add a high directional UHF antenna and stack it.

What is the height of the 4228 CM antenna?

The specs give me length and width, but says nothing about height!

Anyone know the height?

On the pixelation issue, remember a strong signal is not the only requriement.
If you have severe multipath, it screws up the digital processing and causes pixelation .
If it were analog, you would see a strong signal and heavy ghosting.

Digital has a lot of pluses, but also has different problems.

George,

The 4228 is basically a square so it is 60x60x6.5 roughly.

I have it on a 20Ft mast pointing south with a CM Spartan 3 pre-amp I picked up at Lowes. I can pick up almost all the miami stations with little pixelation occasionally due to multipath, without a rotor. I have gone with an A/B remote controlled switch and an RS Double BowTie pointed to the north for UPN and ABC, works great.

If I were in your position I really would be tempted to go for the 4248 instead of the 4228 due to its less likelyhood of having multipath problems.

Regarding severe multipath, if that's the problem, what are the potential solutions?

Severe multipath
Solving this is what was called a "black art", meaning it becomes a test and trial and educated guess work, that experience gives.

There are a lot of "if's" to this.
First if the "multipath" signal is not in the direction of the signal you want, then a high directional antenna would be a potential solution.

If the signal is in the same direction, maybe a different amp or no amp would solve it.

Then comes the problem of a strong signal over loading the pre-amp causing a "mixing effect" and so on.

This can cost time and money.
and to solve one, may cost you not to receive other channels

Try simple methods first, to get a handle on your problem
remove amp.
change antenna direction, etc. etc.

Darryl:

The RS amp that I am using is also a two-component affair. There is one component that mounts to the mast. The other plugs into the AC outlet and has the variable gain control and a switch to control the FM trap. This one I have at my structured wiring site before the signal is distributed throughout the house. I am using a CM 3020 or the 3018 antenna. I don't remember which one I bought.

Jeff

Starting Friday 4/11, WPEC 12-1 is causing my Sammy TS160 to reboot. I flipped over to Masters coverage and the system rebooted and continued to repeatedly do so until I unplugged the antenna. WFOR showing the same programming was OK, but the second I switched back to WPEC bam reboot again.

This has never happened before on any channel and I have been watching WPEC with no problems until yesterday.

Anyone else having any problems with this? HiDef Dave, did you guys make any changes to anything?

Haven't tried yet today. Will post results when I do.

I had the exact same thing happen yesterday.

The PSIP must be causing a problem - remember the CBS -DT feed was different from the CBS analog feed, so i assume some kind of programming change was required to make this happen....

I kept checking til midnight, well after the masters was over, and i still kept getting the reboot....damn.

has anyone tried contacting local CBS station directly to let them know this is happening?

HELP!!!!

Same for me. I sent Dave a note offline, because I thought it just might be my set. It started Friday, and when I last checked a couple of hours ago it still froze the box.

I've been watching the Masters on 12-1 today using a Hughes E-86 receiver. Although I continue to experience some pixelization problems, I've not had anyother problems picking up the HD broadcast.

The rebooting trouble I was having has disappeared this morning. I was watching SD content, so it may resurface again when HD programming resumes. But for the moment AOK.

Just received an e-mail response from Peter Roghaar at WPTV, and he says that his chief engineer told him this morning that hdtv will begin April 16 or 17th. Finally, NBC in HD in South Florida!

Will NBC be near Fox 29-1 ?

I mean the transmitter location for antenna pointing.

yes - they are in same "tower farm" on channel 55-1.

Westonhdguy,

Thanks. My world will be compleat !

Well, I just hope that it will be as easy to receive as 29-1, because I have problems getting the wpb ABC station without a lot of antenna manipulation. Of course, don't forget, wtvj SUPPOSEDLY goes up on June 10. I should live so long (and can't you just wait for all the "channel 6 continues its lead role in digital tv" b.s. which I'm so sure we'll hear from tony segretto - not mentioning that wfor and wplg have been broadcasting HD for two years already!) Anyway, congrats to wpb people, and for us broward people, let's hope the wptv signal is strong and clear. bye.

Hello, all,

I'll ask our engineers about the rebooting issue some of you are having on WPEC-DT. (I'm not experiencing this with my Mitsubishi and Zenith receivers.)

Also, please note that WPEC-DT, channels 12-1 and 12-2 will be off-the-air for some antenna work for several hours tomorrow morning.

ABC is at low power isn't it?

Hi all!

I'm looking to step up my equiptment. Anyone (local to Stuart) interested in a Tosh 57HX81 and DST 3000 (Never connected to Directv - just used for OTA - has the card it came with)?

Is ABC further north than Fox ?

Has anyone checked to see if WPTV-DT is up and running? I'm at work or I would check myself.

sorry gang...looks like NBC HD is not going to happen today either...

spoke to someone at WPTV who indicated they were "having some problems" and didnt know when it would be up.

she did say that she "knows we have to have it running by the end of the month" but no definite date or time. she also said, if they fix the problem, it COULD be up by later tonight....

it's like watching water boil.....

AND THE SIGNAL IN WESTON IS STRONG AS HECK! YAAAY!

I'm not getting anything here. What channel did you get it on?

IT'S NOT "DID GET", IT'S "AM GETTING" - i'M WATCHING RIGHT NOW, THE CHANNEL 5 NEWS, ON 55-1. REALLY STRONG SIGNAL HERE IN WESTON, BUT WITH SOUND PROBLEMS, AND THE PICTURE IS STRETCHED. oF COURSE, THEY'VE BEEN UP ALL OF 20 MINUTES, SO i'M NOT COMPLAINING!

I'm not getting any signal here in Palm City on 55-1 yet.

Nothing yet here in Lake Worth, just 10 miles from their transmitter.

I think some one is pulling our leg...

Buddy, it's on. I'm watching it. there is no sound, and it is stretched. And if you call the news line at wptv (the directory is down) you will talk to a woman who will tell you, as she told me 15 minutes ago when I called regarding the sound, that they are testing, and that it's not "officially" up and running, so she doesn't know when the sound will start working. She would not give me the engineers to speak with - she said no one was available. Don't doubt my veracity. This forum is a wonderful thing, and if I tell you that I get 55-1, then I mean it.

All I did to get it was do a "manual channel add" of 55 on my zenith 520, which I've been doing every day multiple times - it detected a digital signal, added it to my guide, and I tuned in the local news. I then ran to my computer to let you guys know. I have no earthly idea why you're not getting it, because I'm pretty far away in northwest broward, but I am getting it VERY STRONG on the signal meter (there is no number on the zenith 520, but it's about 90% up on the signal bar) - my ota antenna is a simple jensen amplified indoor, with 45 db of gain. call the station, talk to an engineer if you can. They will tell you that they are up, and for now there is no sound.

Am getting a really strong signal in Margate. Their signal is as strong as the one I get from the Miami stations.

TonyV

I'm just a few mile south of their antenna and I have not been getting anything on 55 analog or digital. I switch between an indoor and attic antennas and have "scanned" the channels numerous times. I even rebooted the receiver. All I can figure is that perhaps they are using only one element of their broadcast antenna - and it's pointing toward Weston?

If it's stretched, that should have been your first clue that you're seeing their analog NTSC service.

OK I'll give it to you. I,m scanning with my Sony HD200 and when the channel is no channel on digital I get a quick "Not found" When I do it on 55 it hangs on 55 for a few seconds then it says "Not found" Maybe they are missing the info to map it. So my Sony rejects it .


Lets hope they resolve this before the weekend.


Ken

Look on the south florida thread. There's a guy in hialeah who's getting it.

I meant to say I'm a few miles North of their antenna. I get nothing though. Perhaps they are beaming it south for some reason.

Well my signal is mostly at zero, but has hit as high as 100% for about 1 second. I can actually see the new tower from my backyard so when the sucker goes live again, I should have no trouble picking it up. As of right now - I get no picture/no sound but the jump in signal strength from time to time shows me that they are working on some things - give them some time- they'll make it work :)

PS: Heck - we have waited this long, what's a few more days ;)

I'm receiving it here in Hobe Sound. Dish 6000 indicates that it's DTV. No sound though!
I first did a scan and didn't get any thing, I had to manually add it to the Dish to get a fairly strong signal of 72% (w/set top RS D.Bl Bowtie).

I'm getting zero on both the DTC-100 and the Hipix...

I am receiving WPTV-DT here in Boynton Beach on 55-1. My signal strength is very strong. As previously reported it is stretched an no audio. This is great I am glad to see that have started testing.

no signal in juno beach on 55-anthing; silver sensor on roof, 28-2 at 94%
12-1 at 70%

I'm in Hobe Sound and thanks to your posts I have upped the efforts to pull in 55-1 tonight. I kept getting a "not found" message when I tried the various methods of adding a channel. I had rotated the antenna to give me the best picture of analog 5 that I could get assuming the DTV transmitter would be at the same location. No luck.

But then (per some of the feedback here), I rotated the antenna to the same direction as 29-1 and did a manual search for 55 (on a Zenith 1080 box). 55-1 and 55-2 appeared. Signal meter is bouncing around like crazy (presumably testing) and it is not remapping to 5-1 or 5-2. No picture, no sound, just a signal gauge that blips toward 85% some of the time (but mostly stays in the "bad" to low "normal" range).

I wonder if 55-2 is another weather channel like 12-2 or perhaps something else. I guess we'll all know soon enough. Let's hope to see NBC-HD ASAP. After all, it's no longer "must see TV" unless it's in HD, right?

Excellent signal in Palm City on 55-1 using HD-200/Attic UHF yagi. As strong as WFLX-DT.

I'm getting 55.1 in Delray at 93%! I was able to scan it and add it into my Samsung 165, but I can't figure out how to add it to the Sony HD200. Anyone know the magic combination?

HD200, just manually add channel 55 using the setup menu.

They are testing sporadically by sending some PSIP data and a stretched, upconverted SD image at 1080i with no audio. Their coding appears to be non-standard and thus incompatible with most receivers including all of mine (RCA DTC100, Mitsubishi SR-HD4 and Zenith IQB64W10W...none of them even shows a signal present let alone a picture or channel info.)

I'm sure they'll get the bugs worked-out eventually.

Originally posted by David McRoy
They are testing sporadically by sending some PSIP data and a stretched, upconverted SD image at 1080i with no audio. Their coding appears to be non-standard and thus incompatible with most receivers including all of mine (RCA DTC100, Mitsubishi SR-HD4 and Zenith IQB64W10W...none of them even shows a signal present let alone a picture or channel info.)

I'm sure they'll get the bugs worked-out eventually.

Or, they have decided to broadcast to a very select audience.<g>

It is of no great consequence to me, as the only NBC program I watch is 'The West Wing', which is not currently broadcast in HD. With repeat season upon us, it doesn't really matter.

I tried them this morning, and both of my Samsung tuners locked onto the signal with little trouble. But I'm waiting to see what Miami's WTVJ does when they finally go live in June. After almost three years, they'd better get it right (complete with programming info and all!) from the very first second they start broadcasting. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by David McRoy
They are testing sporadically by sending some PSIP data and a stretched, upconverted SD image at 1080i with no audio. Their coding appears to be non-standard and thus incompatible with most receivers including all of mine (RCA DTC100, Mitsubishi SR-HD4 and Zenith IQB64W10W...none of them even shows a signal present let alone a picture or channel info.)

I'm sure they'll get the bugs worked-out eventually.

Thanks David,

I'm glad to know it's not me. And in trying to pull it in all night I can safely say that my antenna is peaked for West Palm now.

I tried to receive WPTV DT 55 yesterday here in Coral Gables. I am located 120 feet in the air in a Penthouse apartment facing north using a RS double bow tie. My signal on a Samsung SIR-T150 and SIR-T165 were very high for WPTV but we also have a low power spanish channel here in Miami on channel 55. It rebroadcast WEYS 22 from Key West. It is not a class A protected LP and does anyone know if W55BV will be shut off now that WPTV is on? Right now at 4:16pm all I can receive is W55BV. This low power crap station is going to wreck our chances here in Miami Dade from receiving WPTV. :(

I have a sony hd-100 almost line of site to the transmitter at glades and 441, a cm4228 antenna mounted outside with signal strengh in the high 90's on all stations miami, as well as wpb. Nothing on 55

This morning I got their signal really strong, but there was just a black screen. Since about 1 pm there has been no signal at all. Yesterday, of course, I got it very strong and clear - from the five oclock news all the way through conan, it was on stretched, upconverted 4x3, and with no sound. But since then, nothing.

WestonHDGuy,
Do you recieve other West Palm stations? I added in the zip code for West Palm beach into my Toshiba DST 3000 and scanned for stations. I can see many West Palm stations in my listing - but don't seem to be able to view any...

btw/ I'm in the Ridges. I've got a 2 story with an antenna in the attic. Just added a 10db amp of my attenna drop.

Absolutely. I get channel 29 clear as a bell - very strong signal, and I can get the abc station if I move my rabbit ears toward my window. last night I got channel 55-1 in as strong as any other channel I get - I was amazed. I'm in the meadows.

Did I dream it or is there a DT version of 25? I thought I got a signal on 25.1 once, but I have not been able to get anything since. I am in Delray.

Yes, 25-1 is West Palms ABC station..

Is 29-1 WFLX-DT down? I am not getting a signal right now and I usually have a very strong signal.

yes, it's down. I made the same post you did on the wpb thread a few hours ago. Also, I'm not getting 55-1 today - I did yesterday. Is anyone getting a signal tonight? I'm getting nothing at all.

Does anyone else have a DTC-100 and have remapping problems? 16-1 has never remapped to 25-1, and now 28-2 does not remap to 29-1. 13-1 remaps fine but it takes 60 seconds for the channel to lock on and aquire. Signal strengths: 16-1 85%+, 28-2 94%; 12-1 80%; 34-1 90% (remaps fine). I have 2 silver sensors pointed at the 2 different antenna farms as well as a radio shack monster whatever in the attic pointed at 441&forest hill.
Dan

The audio on WPEC-DT is out of sync. Does anyone else notice the problem?

No 55 yet.
Has anyone still getting 15 ?
I can't seem to get any lock any more.

Anyone on here informed enough about the locals to know who is at full power now, who is still to go to full power, and when they will go?

Also, another "May 1" is rapidly approaching. It looks like this date is generally geared to public (and some independent) stations. Anyone have any strong info on whether this May 1 is just smoke, or is there any tangible hope for some new DTV (even if it is other languages, religion, or pretty pictures of butterflies and flowers)?

Various online sources seem to show a number of "going live" schedules:
IND 44 WPPB-DT,
PAX 36 WPXP-DT,
PBS 27 WXEL-DT,
TBN 38 WTCE-DT (to name 4),
but I am wondering if those "in the know" know anything tangible about WPB and South Florida "locals" relative to this "deadline".

Lastly, while I enjoy 34-1 (UPN & WB rolled into one) the matte on all sides makes me wonder how to comment directly to them to ask them to scale it to HD widescreen. I get the 4:3 idea of vertical bars on the left and right, but having horizontal and vertical bars around the picture seems like a waste. Anyone have a direct contact email address so that I can communicate my wish for filling more of a widescreen screen (even if it is just to eliminate the top & bottom bars). Or, is there some great reason for this that I just don't get?

Darryl

And come 'on 55/5, give us some NBC before the summer reruns are all there is.

Looks like some more intermittent testing on Ch 55 at 7:00 PM this evening.
Signal goes from 0 to 25 here in Miami and unable to lock in on the DST3000. Anybody else getting a stronger signal?

Very strong signal and great pictures but no audio in Hobe Sound. I have a rotor on the antenna, and I notice that the signal seems to be very directional. Just moving the antenna a few degrees makes the signal fall.

The Dolby Digital indicators on the reciever are showing 2 channel stereo (but no sound). The picture showing looks like it is DTV 4:3 (black bars on the sides).

55-2 is pictureless (and silent) but with a strong signal too.

Darryl

UPDATE: In Apr 21-22 testing, I notice that they are switching the video from 55-1 to 55-2 from time to time. I don't notice a change in the quality of the picture, so I don't know if they plan to do HD on -1 and SD on -2.

Getting a perfect signal here with no sound at 11PM. The picture looks great and is formatted correctly with the side bars. Hopefully soon they will have everything going full steam.

Crossing Jordan at 10 p. m. should have been in HD. I saw a very detailed 16:9 image completely surrounded on all sides by a black border with no sound.

For anyone who, like me, has been unable to get anything from 55-1 until now, I found that if I tune them in and just let the receiver sit there on 55-1 for 30 seconds or so it will eventually lock onto the signal. No remapping, though. I'm sure they're still testing and working out bugs.

I also confirm I am receiving 55-1 with clear picture and no sound. I found that I have to point my antenna the opposite direction than I do for WFLX 29-1 (weird). I can literally see the WPTV tower from my back yard so maybe their testing is causing this (tower not at full power in all directions??). When I do turn the antenna, however, the signal is at 100%.

I have also noticed that receive antenna direction is more critical than I would have anticipated (probably because I'm only 10 miles away and they're on a really high UHF channel.) Once locked-in though, it's rock-soild.

Finally got a good 72 signal in Miami this morning. Seems as though the transmitter is varying in output or directionality. Signal only locks for 5 seconds then drops to zero before returning again. At least there is a good probabilty when at full power it may be the same strength as WFLX 29-1 signal which is 100 on my DST3000.

What is a "72 signal"?

72% out of 100%

I'm getting a great picture - no sound from channel 55 in WPB. I live in Margate and use an attic antenna. However, last night my channel 4 dropped out of my receiver. I have a DISH 6000 receiver which has been working perfectly up to now. I get a real strong signal on channel 22, but there is no picture, no sound and it does not remap to channel 4. Re-booting and resetting the card do not help. All I can get from the station is one answering machine to another. Has anyone else noted this??

Joel,

It is a "relative" term used to describe how well the set-top box decoder is receiving a digital broadcast based on a scale of 0 to 100. The "72" is the level my box is receiving the channel about 55 miles from the tower.

Mark

Relative to channel 4 problems, I woke up this morning and gave a quick check of 55-1 in hopes of more overnight progress (they must have those guys testing all night). Coincidentily I dialed in 4-1 and was stunned to get a solid picture with sound. I live in Hobe Sound and have always got some signal on 4-1 but no picture. I checked the gauge and it was rating high on the "normal" scale and sometimes in "good" (which apparently is something like 60-75% strength). I wonder if this is that troposphere stuff (as I couldn't get anything more than a weak signal on 4-1 last night) or if 4 went to "full power" (if they were not already at full power). Anyone else noticing a big surge in strength from 4-1?

Finally got 55-1 last night as a signal no picture.
I get up to 48 out of a 100 and signal comes in and out of lock.
Doesn';t stay locked long enought to get a picture.
But, hey, I get a 55-1, so there is hope.

Originally posted by tonyv
I'm getting a great picture - no sound from channel 55 in WPB. I live in Margate and use an attic antenna. However, last night my channel 4 dropped out of my receiver. I have a DISH 6000 receiver which has been working perfectly up to now. I get a real strong signal on channel 22, but there is no picture, no sound and it does not remap to channel 4. Re-booting and resetting the card do not help. All I can get from the station is one answering machine to another. Has anyone else noted this??

Per a phone call I just received from one of the station's engineers, WFOR's problems last night were due to trouble with their PSIP computer.

WFOR is normal again as of about 10:30 am.

Originally posted by HobeSoundDarryl
Relative to channel 4 problems, I woke up this morning and gave a quick check of 55-1 in hopes of more overnight progress (they must have those guys testing all night).

Just checked (12:40 pm) I'm receiving 55 @ very low levels (00 - 21 % on my DST3000 with RS Double bow-tie in Stuart).

21% isn't enough for me to get a steady picture, but, I did receive some shots of what looked like "Judge Macmillan?" show, with sound...

PTV is coming In at 20% steady in Coral Springs.

I was able to get mt Sony HD200 to get 55.1 after repeated scanning of 55.

Now I can sit back and watch the testing if they turn up the power.

Ken

Getting sound now on Passions. The local breaks are silent. Signal is 100 on my Mitsubishi SR-HD4. Seeing occasional pixelation and freezes, momentary silence. They seem to be experiencing many of the same "teething pains" that we did at first.

Dave,You should offer your assistance with the audio troubles. I am sure WPTV must facing the same problems you over came.

Actually, I think they're well on their way! Now they have sound on the local break running right now at 2:58 p. m., and Dr. Phil (which is a syndicated show that they get from a source other than NBC) has audio, too!

I am getting a signal that jumps from 0 to 97 then goes right back to 0. I can't get a lock on the signal. I assume that as the week go on the signal will become more stable. I still don't understand which some stb's can lock on to the signal and my sony ht 100 only sporadicly acknowledges ch 55

Using a Sony HD200 from Parkland (Just south of Boca Raton) I am getting a solid picture as of 4:40pm with sound. Oprah is on.

Noticed another improvement: instant tuning...no need to wait 30 seconds before the receiver locks onto 55-1. Still getting dropouts, though.

I suspect that they're not yet at full power. A few degrees of receive antenna adjustment can make or break reception just 10 miles out.

They're playing with aspect ratios on their SD-to-1080i upconverter now, alternating between native 4:3, zoomed to fill 16:9 and partial zoom/stretch to 14:9. (Just leave it native 4:3, guys!;) )

Very nice-looking upconverted video on the live studio cameras in their local newscasts.

Is it power that causes the signal to jump in and out of lock and bounce from zero to 24?
Amazing how the signal comes in bursts.
It must be skipping or skiffing (or what ever the name is for "wave" bouncing)

Also getting signal going from mid 90s back to 0 and back...

Well it looks like WPTV is not passing the NBC HD signal yet.

If you're pretty close to the Lantana tower you may get better results by elevating your antenna. Check out the enclosed picture to see how I maximized my reception on a Dish 6k (~90% or so) with a Radio Shack DBT. Needless to say, this is NOT going to become a permanent fixture in my living room!

--acesk8er

P.S. The difference between perfect reception and no signal is only a few inches. I can't believe the ATSC expected Joe and Jane Sixpack to put up with that!

Out west here in royal palm,I have a great signal in the good range. But at times I do get periods of pixilation. Last night As[ect ratio was switching a bit. But the news cast was the clearest over WPBF and WPEC. Sorry Dave. Good things come to those who wait.....were getting there...so slowly...arg!

You might try an antenna that is less directional in the vertical plane. A UHF yagi should be better for you.

Anyone using a RCA DTC-100 to view channel 55-1?

Tim Huey

I do not think an RCA DTC-100 is the problem with 55-1.
It is 55 low power testing that is the problem

But, that what it is testing.
They have not done this before, so there are power and digital issues that have to be resolved first.
Then will come re-maping and then Hi-Def.

I think high power is still 30 days out.

Yeah but I would still like to find a few people using the RCA DTC-100. It was one of the first recievers released and it has problems recieving certain broadcasts


Tim Huey

Why did WPTV choose to use 55-1 instead of 5-1?

I still don't have a locked signal with my sony hd-100. I think the problem is similar to that with the RCA DTC_100. This is real frrustrating since the signal peaks at 100%. So the problem is not with reception but with the stb.

dbuchler, I don't think it really matters that they are 55-1 for now. It is highly expected that they will do what so many others do and remap the channel to 5-1 soon. This will probably happen during the testing phase. Many local channels have a digital channel allocation that is different than the one that shows up on the "channel guides", etc. Examples: Fox 29-1 is actually DTV 28-1 and CBS 12-1 is actually DTV 13-1.

Many of the channels loaned (given?) away for free to "accelerate" the DTV transition were in unused slots in the UHF band. So even though the 2 examples I share are only one physical digit from the classic analog channel number, I don't think they represent the rule. I assume the channels in the VHF band in general were pushed up to somewhere in UHF (14-69) based on the non-interference goals of the FCC. So 5 got 55-1 and 2 (down in Miami) got 18-1. This does not appear to always be the case, as 12 getting 13 are both VHF, and some other Florida stations appear to have allocations of a DTV channel within the VHF band (example WESH 2 in Daytona/Orlando has DTV channel 11).

Part of the DTV spec makes this issue somewhat moot. I suspect worst case potentially occurs after the analog channel (2006+) shutdown (if that ever really happens), some stations may move their digital broadcast back to their analog channel. I read in some places that this is actually expected to happen as the channels that the government wants to auction are actually at the top of the UHF spectrum and not VHF 2-13). For those who have UHF-only antennas (like me), this will probably force us back up on the roof to install a bigger VHF/UHF combo antenna (or maybe Adelphia will finally join the party by then). :confused:

I think it all really just comes down to "brand" and that a lot of VHF brands (channels 2-13) were able to make the case that would allow them to get the remap feature, so they could stick with their established channel number reagardless of the physical channel location.

Originally posted by dbuchler
Why did WPTV choose to use 55-1 instead of 5-1?

The signal will eventually remap to 5-1. They're just not there yet.

At the top of their 5:30 p. m. news today they announced formally that WPTV-DT had "quietly" gone on the air yesterday afternoon and that they would start passing NBC-HD programming "...over the coming weeks..." and that, eventually, their local newscasts would be in HD. No timetable was given for that eventuality.

At what power level they are currently broadcasting remains an unknown. Since I still experience having only a 4-degree wide receive antenna window for any reception (while still experiencing frequent dropouts just 10 miles away) I am assuming that they must still be at very low power.

They are testing 55.2 with the news now.

I'm not getting 55-2, Ken. Is the test intermittent?

Is turning the signal on and off part of their tests?

Originally posted by David McRoy
I'm not getting 55-2, Ken. Is the test intermittent?

Yes Dave. It was fast, during the Weather 55.1 was very low. I was playing with the meter. So I looked at 55.2 and saw a 5 min test and then it was back to 55.1

nothing at all on my vintage DTC-100 . i'll keep searching and reading these posts!

Nothing at all on my SAT 520. Even a little 'chirp' would make me feel better.

To RCA DTC100 users and all who haven't been able to receive 55-1: I suspect that they are at very low power. At high UHF frequencies like channel 55 antenna gain and orientation are highly critical for reception and as I stated earlier I'm only 10 miles from their transmitter and even with a huge, high-gain antenna reception is dicey with only a +/- 2-degree tollerance for antenna direction. Many of you will not be able to receive them at all until they go to higher power (assuming that power is the problem.)

Dave,

I saw WPTV's quick digital tv segment on their 5:30 PM news broadcast as well, and didn't quite understand why it's going to take them another "few" weeks to pass the NBC HD feed through. Is this due to equipment issues or testing? Thanks.

Yep it appears to be a problem with the DTC-100. Too many DTC-100 people are not recieving the signal to say it most likely isn't the box. Yes it's a possibility but it's getting more and more remote.

A good test would be for someone with a DTC-100 to go to someone's house recieving a decent stable image and see if you can view the channel using their antenna feed. Any close to Fort Lauderdale beach getting an image?

Tim Huey

Originally posted by greenknight
Nothing at all on my SAT 520. Even a little 'chirp' would make me feel better.

Greenknight,
That is odd. I have a SAT-HD200 (the same thing as your SAT 520) and I get a very strong signal (signal strength bar goes almost all the way across) here in Boynton Beach. I have a Radio Shack U75 (15-2160) in my attic pointed NNW.

Originally posted by bsgoren
Dave,

I saw WPTV's quick digital tv segment on their 5:30 PM news broadcast as well, and didn't quite understand why it's going to take them another "few" weeks to pass the NBC HD feed through. Is this due to equipment issues or testing? Thanks.

Probably. Maybe they haven't yet incorporated their NBC-HD receive equipment into their master control swircher to enable them to get NBC-HD on the air.

Originally posted by TimHuey
Yep it appears to be a problem with the DTC-100. Too many DTC-100 people are not recieving the signal to say it most likely isn't the box. Yes it's a possibility but it's getting more and more remote.


Tim Huey

Tim, I don't think there's anything "wrong" with DTC100s. It may just be that they're a little less sensitive than some other receivers and you only notice a problem on extremely weak signals.

Note that the "signal strength" meters on DTV receivers are not really indicative of RF signal strength. Rather, they are actually "bit error-rate" indicators. A high number indicates little or no bit error and a low number indicates lots of bit errors. If things get bad enough you'll get no signal.

Bit errors can be caused by low signal strength but they can also be caused by interference or by severe static or dynamic multipath reception (which would cause static or moving "ghosting" in analog pictures.) Bit errors can even be caused by corrupted data being sent by the station. In any case the side effects that bit errors cause...dropouts, pixelation, freezing or complete loss of signal...are indistinguishable regardless of the cause of the bit errors.

I think that we'll eventually see 55-1 shape-up once they work out the bugs. And, again, I suspect they are at low power right now. That's the only thing that I can think of that would make receive antenna aiming so critical (+/- 2-degrees.) Heck, a puff of wind on my antenna makes the signal go away!

ANSEK - I have a RS "The Stick" uhf-vhf with 20 db of gain in the attic above the garage aimed NNW. 5 and 25 hd come in like gangbusters but 25 sd ota is terrible. I have a RS uhf directional that is not hooked up since it didn't help with 25. I may try it to see if I can get 5 hd.

I believe it is the box, DCT-!00, even though I don't have one, my sony hd-100 gets every digital station in the area from channel 16.1 in Stuart to all of the Ft Lauderdale stations all with steady signals in the high 90's. Channel 29 comes in at 97% and I cant get a lock on channel 55. I have moved my outdoor antenna a few degrees in both directions. My antenna a CM 4228 is supposed to be the best uhf antenna for higher frequencies. I still get an a signal on the antenna meter that jumps to 100 then vanishes and will intermittently jump back strait to 100.

[And, again, I suspect they are at low power right now. That's the only thing that I can think of that would make receive antenna aiming so critical (+/- 2-degrees.) Heck, a puff of wind on my antenna makes the signal go away! [/B]

Dave, I'm wondering if they aren't at low power. I get the WPTV signal at about 60-65% in Hialeah (Dade County). I did experience some pixelization/drop-outs during "West Wing" and "Law and Order" but it wasn't enough to make me want to change the channel. It may be a directional problem for most as I'm almost due south of the tower and that is one of WPTV's "good" areas according to a previous post.

Also, is WPEC at full power? Sometimes I get the signal great but mostly it is borderline. It cuts in and out.

I was able to receive 55-1 last night on my HD-SAT520 with good signal strenth during prime time. They had a 16:9 picture which did not fill the entire screen. It seemed to be in SD even though the STB said it was HD.
During one commercial I noticed that the sound was from an earlier World News Tonight segment rather that the commercial -- quite weird. The channel is not posting to 5-1, however. I also had to enter it manually as the auto scan would not detect it.

Jeff

The current power output is just interesting conjecture, but here in Palm City I get the same signal strength on my HD200 as 29-1. (in the good range). I am using an attic UHF yagi.

As a related matter, WPTV-DT live news broadcast picture quality is outstanding, noticably better than WPEC, WFLX or WPBF. This is a welcome improvement as the local Adelphia tranmission of WPTV is rather poor even tho they claim a fiber optic connection with this station.

Yes, WPEC-DT is at full power.

As for WPTV-DT and the RCA DTC100, one of our engineers is borrowing mine and reports occasionally getting a frozen image from time to time but mostly he gets nothing from them.

This whole thing is very strange.

Originally posted by Joel Graffman
WPTV-DT live news broadcast picture quality is outstanding, noticably better than WPEC, WFLX or WPBF. This is a welcome improvement as the local Adelphia tranmission of WPTV is rather poor even tho they claim a fiber optic connection with this station.

Yes, you can really see how good SD video can look when the entire plant is component digital, as is WPTV's new facility. (The rest of us in this market still have composite analog SD facilities. But that will change.) And I think I read somewhere that WPTV's new Philips studio cameras are HD...but even if they are we are seeing a downconverted then upconverted picture from them for now.

Am I the only one complaining about the 2 channel stereo sound on 12.1? I know that it is not a high priority problem, but is there any thought of ever fixing it?

Hi alll,

TV Signals sure I strange. It is hard to understand why being so close to the transmitter you cannot get a good signal from 55-1. I live in margate and use a UHF Yagi type RS antenna in my attic and am getting signals in the range of the high 70s to the low 80s on a Dish 6000 with excellent picture quality.
In my attic I have a RS broadband antenna (the one with the 80" boom) pointed south and the above mentioned RS UHF antenna pointed north. I am using a remote controlled coax switcher that I can control from my living room.
I can at times get a signal from about 50 to 60 on 55-1 even with the south pointing antenna selected.
By the way, I realize that WPEC is a VHF station and I was getting a signal of 65-70 on it. I just didn't have room for another broadband. I had a brainstorm and tried a trick that some of you might find useful. I attached a set of cheapy rabbit ears to the back of the UHF antenna and connected it to the terminals. It worked - I now get a signal of the high 70s to the high 80s from WPEC.

Tony

Are they continuously broadcasting on 55.1?? I am at Yamato and 441 and I am not getting it now...

I am getting 12.1, 12.2 and 29.1 perfectly...

I'm not getting them now, either.

Originally posted by fl_newbie
Am I the only one complaining about the 2 channel stereo sound on 12.1? I know that it is not a high priority problem, but is there any thought of ever fixing it?

No, I bitch about it, too!;)

It will be corrected eventually.

55-1 coming in perfectly in Margate at 6:20PM

Tony

New question: why would 4-1 (CBS Miami) register about 75% strength in the early morning and be < 30% strength in the evening and primetime? For the last few days, I have awoken to a rock solid signal on 4-1 (historically, I never get 4-1, other than just a little signal strength around 20%).

Now, for the 3rd day in a row, I get it and it seems very stable. But then, in the evening it is back to no signal (actually "low" signal- no picture). I have considered Florida sunshine heating up the elements on the antenna, but that seems like a stretch. Any other ideas? Would they have any reason to be higher power in the early morning as opposed to prime time? Anyone else noticing this in the last few days? While 12-1 can serve the local needs, its always nice to have choices.

Darryl

Originally posted by David McRoy
Yes, WPEC-DT is at full power.

As for WPTV-DT and the RCA DTC100, one of our engineers is borrowing mine and reports occasionally getting a frozen image from time to time but mostly he gets nothing from them.

This whole thing is very strange.

Have him turn off channel remapping on the DTC - 100 reciever and do a rescan. That causes problems with some of the new PSIP modes being broadcast. At least that problem could be eliminated.

Tim Huey

Does anyone know how much power 12.1 is using?
I only get in and out of lock signals close to zero.

Thanks for the sanity check!

HobeSoundDarryl,

You are probably experiencing tropospheric ducting also known as "skip" which is pretty common in the morning in Florida. Usually cold fronts or temperature inversions in different layers of the atmosphere cause this to happen. Go to http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo_car.html and look at the prediction forecasts which sometimes gives you an idea of when skip may occur. Its not always right but works 50 percent of the time.

Mark

At about 7:00 p.m. 04-24-03...

Dish 6k: Perfect picture with occasional freezing/dropouts/pixelations, ~90% on signal meter.

Hughes E86: Black screen, ~10% blip on the signal meter about once a second. Moved antenna around, no change... WFLX is pegged at 100% with the same antenna positions and orientations.

Weird!

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. All of my digital channels(WPEC,WFLX,WPBF) were coming in perfect, 100 on the signal meter with not much of a signal on WPTV. Today my signal meter is pegged at 100% then nose dives to zero and back. Major pixelation on all channels. Anyone else experiencing these problems? I have been getting great reception for months. Both TV's having the same problem. They are both hooked up to a pre-amp distributon box, do you think it might be going bad causing this problem?

Originally posted by George33027
Does anyone know how much power 12.1 is using?
I only get in and out of lock signals close to zero.

We're transmitting the maximum that the FCC will allow us without interfering with an analog station on channel 13 in Tampa. That's 29.5 kW horizontal ERP.

I contacted them directly and one of their engineers replied with some good clear (and some less clear) answers to all of the big questions that everyone seems to be having such as:
-extreme directionality of the signals
-length of testing phase
-when do we get 5.1 Dolby Digital
-when do we see NBC HD programming
-when will it remap to channel 5-1
-what will be on 55-2 or 5-2
-are they at full power
-issues with early generation HDTV boxes

I didn't choose to post the whole interview in more than one place, so it is posted on the South Florida thread. I hope you find it helpful.

Darryl

so how do we get an upgrade to our first generation equipment. Is it a software issue? Can a fix be downloaded? I'll be contacting sony but would appreciate any suggestions.

I have a brand new Hughes e86 receiver and I am having trouble bringing in the WPTV signal as well (3 miles away from the tower). I find it hard to believe that WPTV would require my box to be "upgraded" to receive them, especially since it is not an old box like the ones they mentioned in the reply to Daryl. I was not able to pick up any signal at all no matter what I did to the antenna.

This is a link to that part of the South Florida DTV Thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2145090#post2145090

Here's one of the Q & As from the exchange with WPTV:

Q: Some people with 1st generation HDTV Directv boxes are reporting that they can't get a signal at all. Some of these are less than 10 miles from your tower and they are using quality UHF antennas. In particular, the RCA DTC-100 seems to fail to acquire any signal at all. Any theory why? Are you using some "latest and greatest" encoding that might not be compatible with 1st generation receivers?

A: We also have an early Panasonic unit, and it has trouble as well...we have heard that some early stuff just won't work without some upgrades to the boxes.
__________________________

Okay, I'm going to think out loud here:

Huh? How are these "upgrades" going to be made? Does this mean that there is something "wrong" with older receivers (they seem to work fine on every other DTV station's signal) or is it that WPTV-DT is transmitting a non-compliant signal?

About the receive antenna orientation issue:

Should I go ahead and experiment with different antennas until I find one that works with WPTV-DT's signal (such as a less-directional receive antenna) or will the station be making some changes to solve this problem?

These are the only issues in the Q & A that pertain to any of our reception problems that I can see.

Thoughts?

Thanks David,

I just left a similar response in the South Florida board. I do not believe that this is an update issue with the first generation models, but rather an issue on how WPTV is transmitting their signal.

Thanks,

Dr Guava

Dave,

Those are good questions. Unlike analog signals we can not see a visual picture of signal quality from our STBs. It is very possible that the transmitter is producing multi-path reflections due to the amps or exciter not working properly. This could be a reason why there is a small window of reception that isn't affected by multipath. Most 1st and 2nd generation STBs including my E86 clone don't have a lot of capabilty to deal with it and won't produce a picture even with a signal being shown on the box. Another issue could be a faulty PSIP being sent to some boxes? I'm sure there engineering department is probably asking the same questions we are and are slowing trying to figure them out.

Mark

Dave,
Thanks for your response as I had similar thoughts, but since I am not a professional in the biz, was unsure how to word my concerns. You hit the nail right on the head!!

As a reminder, WPTV-DT is still in "Program Test" authorization from the FCC so they are still free to experiment and futz with things until they get everything ironed-out. Then, they'll go under "Program" authorization. At that time you'll be free to complain to the station about any remaining issues that you may have with them.

One of our engineers toured their facilities yesterday and verified that WPTV-DT has been at full-power all along so the flaky reception that most of us are experiencing is not a power issue but something else.

I may just try a less-directional antenna. Maybe I'll get a Radio Shack double bowtie or a Silver Sensor and strap it to the mast!;)

Originally posted by Carlb7
I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. All of my digital channels(WPEC,WFLX,WPBF) were coming in perfect, 100 on the signal meter with not much of a signal on WPTV. Today my signal meter is pegged at 100% then nose dives to zero and back. Major pixelation on all channels. Anyone else experiencing these problems? I have been getting great reception for months. Both TV's having the same problem. They are both hooked up to a pre-amp distributon box, do you think it might be going bad causing this problem?

If you have a Hughes type receiver, your problem might well be from heat. It does not occur at first, but does worsen over time.

I went through five STBs with similar problems before discovering this. The cure is to cool it via a small, quiet desk fan blowing at low speed across the top. They are available from Office Depot, etc for $10-15.

There are other, more complex ways. See the E86 cooling fan thread now running in the Hardware forum.

Concerning the older generation stb problem. I called sony and they knew nothing about dtv signals being incompatible with certain boxes. I have heard that the next generation sony box, the hd-200, as well as the current zenith box, both produced by lg industries, have more advanced circuitry which helps with multi-path problems. This might be the reason that owners of these boxes are receiving while some of us are not. My signal on channel 55 now bounces around the 0-40% range and will not lock. The way that its bouncing around seems like the signal is reflecting.

I am pleased to inform everyone that WPEC has just made a purchase from Dolby Labs and other vendors, of a Dolby E decoder and all of the other gear necessary for DolbyDigital 5.1 audio to be passed from CBS-HD on programs for which discrete DD 5.1 surround audio is available. CBS will be providing some of the equipment to us such as the necessary new IRD, etc.

I do not yet have a timetable for when the equipment will be delivered nor when it will be tested, installed and put into service. Whenever that happens I would expect that our engineers will address our remaining audio issues, as well, such as "forced" 2-channel stereo on non-HD programming. When I know definitively that it's all up and running I'll let you folks know.

David,

That is fannnnnnnnnnnnnnntastic! Thank you both for this good news and all the great contributions to these threads. I've learned tons from all of your participation and I'm sure this whole crowd tremendously appreciates having someone doing what you do at WPEC and online.

Darryl

I can hardly wait for 5.1!

Question for Ansek- I haven't been on for awhile, if you remember I live around the block at Jog and Pipers Glen.

Is the antenna you are using (15-2160) the only one or are you still using the silver sensor or rs bowtie? I have both of these on top of my wall unit.
I am not able to pull in 25-1 without redirecting. Does the 15-2160 pull in all?? or do you have to redirect? Did you install near attic access and run cable thru the attic or is the antenna in attic above the area of the tv.

Also, I have a E86 hughes hd box and am not able to get any signal for 55-1. Does anyone else get the signal with this box??

Thanks for your imput,
Lynne

Sorry - I meant to put this in the West Palm Beach thread.
Lynne

Question for Ansek- I haven't been on for awhile, if you remember I live around the block at Jog and Pipers Glen.

Is the antenna you are using (15-2160) the only one or are you still using the silver sensor or rs bowtie? I have both of these on top of my wall unit.
I am not able to pull in 25-1 without redirecting. Does the 15-2160 pull in all?? or do you have to redirect? Did you install near attic access and run cable thru the attic or is the antenna in attic above the area of the tv.

Also, I have a E86 hughes hd box and am not able to get any signal for 55-1. Does anyone else get the signal with this box??

Thanks for your imput,
Lynne

I've posted that I was not getting even a squeek from 55-1. Then it dawned on me that I have to manually let the SAT520 find the signal before it will appear. Duh!! 55-1 hits my house 5x5.

Great! Are the pictures and sound solid or do you get dropouts? And how critical is a your receive antenna direction?

So channel 12-1 is only at 29 KW.
That is why I get it so flaky.
When are they going to go to full power?

55 finally locked, the signal straight is much higher but the picture is not watchable yet. Even though this post might sound as if I'm complaining, I'm not, channel 5 is addressing the problem and they must be getting closer to sending out an acceptable signal to owners of older boxes

Originally posted by George33027
So channel 12-1 is only at 29 KW.
That is why I get it so flaky.
When are they going to go to full power?

29. 5 kW is full power for us.

Wi th all do respect, George, take a look at the FCC website ( www.fcc.gov .) Observe what ERP power levels are typically assigned to highband VHF allocations (channels 7 - 13) vs. UHF allocations for comparable coverage areas. Consider the fact that we are prohibited from interfering with the channel 13 NTSC service in Tampa (until it permanently signs-off, someday.) Look at other highband VHF DTV ERP assignments with similar non-interference mandates. Then opine.

We asked for more power but the FCC limited us to 29.5 kW so that's what we're pumping out (for now.)

And I might also point out to you that you live in Miramar and that you are therefore out of our coverage area. We are not obliged to serve your community with a television service. Why don't you watch WFOR-DT?

I really don't want to sound harsh about this, George, but I hope you see where I'm coming from.