Following jaymer's lead in Tampa and Vlad's Miami thread idea I figured it's time to start a West Palm Beach thread since it appears the West Palm stations are about to begin construction within a few months. Here's the place to report any DTV developments confimed by broadcasters, pose questions, etc., related to West Palm Beach DTV activity. Fellow broadcasters are encouraged to join AV Science Forum and address Forum members here! Hopefully a good dialog will help everyone involved in the transition.

I won't repeat what other Forum members have stated they heard from area broadcasters regarding construction plans in other threads. However, I would encourage members who originally made those posts based on conversations with station officials to document pertainent quotes here themselves. By the way, don't expect everyone to bo on the air on time! Remember that there are only so many tower crews available as every station in the country tries to get on at the ame time. It's just not going to happen.

David --
Does this mean that West Palm Beach (and environs) is seceding from South Florida?<g>

I guess I will be the first! I spoke to engineers at both Ch 5 and Ch 25.

Ch 5 has not put up their tower or gotten their transmitter in, they say it will be about another 6 months.

Ch 25 says that they will be transmitting 720P and their schedule is to have it done by May, but they are shooting for April.

Ch 29 was supposed to be up as of yesturday according to TitanTV, but as of yet their are no signs.

If anybody hears any different, let me know.

-Zero

ch 5 is putting in a new tower? I cant believe that. Maybe just a new antena on the existing tower?

Sandy

Yes, Sandy, they have to build an entire, new tower.

WPTV's tower is made of iron and is nearly 50 years old. It's the same age that WPEC's tower would be had it not been replaced with a new, stainless steel tower a few years ago. WPTV's old tower needs to be replaced just because of age. On top of that the added weight and wind loading that a DTV antenna and feedline would have created would necessitate a new tower. I believe that WXEL will leave WFLX's tower and move to WPTV's new tower when it's completed.

WPEC has requested sometime in the month of April for Harris to install our DTV transmitter, which we took delivery on late last year. With any luck WPEC-DT, Channel 13-1 (which will remap to 12-1 on your ATSC receiver) should hopefully be up by May 1. As with any government-mandated effort, your results may vary.;)

Here's some data on and a picture of our DTV transmitter, for all the gearheads out there:

http://www.broadcast.harris.com/transmission/tv/platinumcd.html

For those who may be new to all this, watch this space for further info on the most elusive TV station in South Florida:

www.whdt.net

Gunther Marksteiner's quest to provide 24 hours a day of 720p/60 HDTV to viewers in the West Palm Bach market, and eventually to Miami and Naples via DTV repeaters, continues apace.If you locate the antenna site coordinates on their CP application, and here it is...

WHDT FL STUART USA (Digital)

Licensee: GUENTER MARKSTEINER
Service Designation: DT "Full Service" TV Station or Application (digital)

Channel 59 Construction permit
File No.: BPCDT -19960920LH Facility ID No: 83929
CDBS Application ID No.: 232429
Antenna Structure Registration Number (ASRN): 1045227

26 ° 43' 37.00" Latitude Zone: 3
80 ° 4 ' 48.00" Longitude (NAD27) Frequency Offset: 0 (zero)

Polarization: Horizontally Polarized (H)
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 1000 kW ERP
Ant. Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT): 80.00 meters HAAT
Ant. Radiation Center Above Mean Sea Level: 313.0 meters RCAMSL
Ant. Radiation Center Above Ground Level: 80.0 meters RCAGL

Not directional
Not in a Border Zone
.

...it puts it right on top of their building on Palm Beach Lakes Blvd. in West Palm Beach. I drive by a few times a week and there's still no sign of any work since late last Summer when the original aviation obstruction marker mast was replaced with a new, shorter strobe, and they replaced burned-out lights in the "DW" sign.

Here's where to start looking for which station as they start testing in a few months:

WPEC-DT (CBS) 13-1 (remapped to 12-1)

WPBF-DT (ABC) 16-1 (remapped to 25-1)

WFLX-DT (Fox) 28-1 (remapped to 29-1)

WTVX-DT (UPN/WB) 50-1 (remapped to 34-1)

WPTV-DT (NBC) 55-1 (remapped to 5-1)

WHDT-DT (Deutche Welle/Ind.) 59-1 (probably no remapping)

That's it for the major commercial stations. Here's Titan TV's list of stations that ae supposedly "comming soon" to South Florida, at www.titantv.com :

Network CH Station Live Date
ABC 16 WPBF-DT May 1, 2002
CBS 13 WPEC-DT May 1, 2002
CTN 49 WFGC-DT May 1, 2002
FOX 28 WFLX-DT February 28, 2002
HSN 48 WFUN-DT
IND 59 WHDT-DT May 1, 2002
NBC 55 WPTV-DT May 1, 2002
PAX 26 WPXM-DT May 1, 2002
PAX 36 WPXP-DT May 1, 2002
PBS 20 WLRN-DT May 1, 2003
PBS 27 WXEL-DT May 1, 2003
TBN 46 WHFT-DT
TBN 38 WTCE-DT May 1, 2002
TEL 52 WSCV-DT
UNI 47 WAMI-DT May 1, 2002
UNI 24 WLTV-DT
UPN 32 WBFS-DT May 1, 2002
UPN 50 WTVX-DT May 1, 2002
WB 16 WTCN-DT May 1, 2002



Copyright © 2001. Decisionmark Corp. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy

The channel numbers are the actual assigned ATSC allocations and in many cases will be remapped by your receiver after an initial scan.

Don't expect all these stations to make it on the air on time. There are only so many tower crews that are qualified to perform the work required fo every station in the United States to launch a DTV service.

In addition to www.titantv.com, here's a link to a section of www.100000watts.com that let's you check their "version" of the status of West Palm Beach, FL TV stations:

http://100kwatts.tmi.net/tv/PBI.html

Dave,

I must say I am puzzeled. I got my receiver home last night and got everything connected and I can pull CH 7, CH 10, and the WB station out of Miami in digital. I thought that I would be able to get CH 4 quite easily due to their high power status but it doesn't seem so...

I checked on TitanTV and noticed I was using their pointing system wrong so I am about 10-15 degrees off on my aim, will this have that much of an impact? Note my equipment list below.

RS 90XR Antenna
RS PreAmp 1113C
Panny TU-HDS20
Panny PT-51HX41

Can you provide any assistance? The antenna is in my attic and the analog stations show up fairly well, I am taking the amp back today to pick up the other amp that has 26db gain instead of the 20 on this one and will repoint my antenna. I'll let you know how it works out. I don't really want to go through much more expense because my wife will kill me, but also in 6 months I will be able to pickup the WP stations anyway. Thanks for reading my long winded message...

-Robert

Robert,

WFOR-DT is on channel 22-1. Once you successfully receive the signal there your tuner should "remap" it to "4-1".

Sometimes changing the antenna angle by as little as 2 degrees can cause a measurable difference in signal. Since I get WFOR-DT and WPBT-DT with nice, hot signal levels, I fine tune the antenna direction most carefully on WSVN-DT and WPLG-DT, which are lower in level and more critical.

The amp you're using is the same as mine. I'm surprised you're having a problem, assuming you're tuning to 22-1 initially. I do have a bigger RS antenna though: the VU-210XR.

You didn't mention your location, which could be a factor.

Dave,

I'm in Boynton Beach, I did pick up the CBS station and the PBS station last night. I moved my antenna by about 15 degrees and got a different amp. I got the RS model that has 30db gain and they came in great, the only downside is that I lost the ABC station, so I am going to see if I can find a happy medium, maybe move the antenna back about 5 degrees and see if I can get both. I'll let you know..

-Robert

Hi Robert...have fun with the alignments; it's tricky, but worth it when completed. And yes, here in Ft. Lauderdale, just moving a lateral (tapcon mounted) TV55 (or similar from Radio Shack) 2" away from an awning frame or window frame, resolved weeks of initial instablity. Since that time (months ago) rock-steady on all the signals, when those signals are being sent. (Nothing on WB that I can find, other than the signal; ditto WSVN; with CBS and ABC now flawless, after earlier audio issues at WPLG, which are resolved).

Anyway, I wanted to post because I am not sure you're getting correct info about amp's. My understanding is that amplifying any cable run under 100' is not helpful; increasing the power amp is even worse (attenuation) and that the mild amp included with the antenna (no more than 11 db's as I recall) is the way to go; or none at all if you get solid 80's and 90's, as do I. This is not 100% (I'm a former station owner, not engineer), but I believe it is correct.

Now if only WFOR (NBC) would get in HDTV gear before the Olympics...FOX (WSVN) is a lost cause until advertisers boycott. Also, from what I gather, you'll find many opinions on STB's; all seem to be slow; one friend I recommended the Sony too went and swapped it for a Mitsu; now wishes he kept it, due to the variable feature. Pana. is said to be pretty good on this too. I'm happy with my Sony's, particularly the integrated XBR2 tuner, and I'm an early adopter. Most problems now relate to the station's stability, and the (3 months out) initial copyright resolution issue.

Good luck!

gene

Senior moment; almost accused Ch. 4 of being that antiquated NBC operation; should have said WTVJ (NBC), not WFOR (CBS), which is beutifully mostly HD.

By the way, if anyone has new updates on the brief hubub about Ch. 6 (WTVJ, NBC) establishing their new Miramar studios as an HDTV 'hub' of sorts, and/or when they'll start transmitting, that would be interesting to know. And, does that mean that they'll go from being the seemingly-lethargic, to the sector-leading, with all the newest gear (cheaper too) and maybe the 1st local HD news?

cheers...

gene

gene inger
www.ingerletter.com

I am looking into the possibility of bringing treason charges against Dave.

Gireesh.:D

Dave, where is the new ch 5 tower going to be built? I drive by the lantana antenna farm every day and I see no sign of any new site prep?

Sandy

It will be on the same property as their current tower. You may recall that we built our new tower 70 feet from our old one, then dismantled the old tower.

That sounds like it would be hard to do. I saw a crew building a tower down in the lower keys this past weekend and I could not believe how dangerous it looked. They had guys hundreds of feet up in the air on each leg trying to bolt on a piece that was hoisted by a derrick that itself was attached to the tower way up and was moved up as pieces were added. I get sick just thinking about it. It does not sound like ch5 will be up anytime soon

Sandy

There are very few tower crews who are qualified to work on towers that are over 1,000 feet high. A lot of existing and proposed TV towers fall into that category. Do the math and realize that a LOT of DTV stations will be late getting on the air.

Hi all,

Glad to be a member of this forum. I bought SIRT150 and antenna from HOMEDEPOT. I simply mounted the antenna on a bucket that I already had for my dishes.
I am getting a strong signal from CBS and WPBT. The top of the antenna is just 6 feet above the ground. It was a test installation to see if I picked signals from Miami. I live in a culdesac lake lot there fore I don't have any obstacles for atleast 500 Feet.

I have this problem. WPBT signals are in full screen and is really amazing. CBS shows up with bars on the side (like 4:3 format). This is same for both HDprograms and non-HD programs. Am I missing some thing here. IS this the way WFOR is broadcasting?? Please respond.:(

When a DTV station, including WFOR-DT (CBS) is transmitting true HDTV you will not see black bars on the sides. That only occurs when they are "upconverting" a standard-definition source to 1080i for transmission.

All of CBS's film-based primetime programming plus "The Young & the Restless" and occasional movies and sports programming are in true HD format.

WPLG-DT transmits all scripted episodic ABC primtime shows plus some movies in true 720p HDTV.

WPBT-DT on rare occasion shows true HDTV from the PBS primetime schedule, that is, whenever available. And sometimes they get a wild hair and transmit HD demo material. This is all on "2-1" which is only up when there's an HDTVs show available. The rest of he time you get 480i SDTV on "2-3".

WSVN-DT only sends 480i standard-definition. And good luck getting their audio to sync-up.

WBZL-DT broadcasts SD programming that's upconverted to 1080i.

Does it mean My tv is at risk for "burn ins" due to upconversion to 1080? Can I expect the same (4:3 format) with WBZL?

IS there a way I can stretch it to full screen?

If you watch a lot of 4:3 programming with black sidebars, particularly with your contrast set at or near the factory setting, you do run a risk of uneven phosphor wear. This would eventually result in a discoloration of the area of the screen that the 4:3 image occupies within the 16:9 screen. It would become visible while viewing 16:9 images.

The chances of this happening can be dramatically reduced by 1) turning down the contrast to the correct level: the point at which peak whites remain fully focused and not blurred and at which level the picture will not "bloom" or change in size and shape as the scene content varies; 2) call WFOR and express your concern about uneven phosphor wear and request that they transmit gray side panels instead of black during 4:3 programming.

Some DTV STBs and monitors allow you to display gray side panels or to zoom or stretch the image to fill the 16:9 raster while displaying 720p or 1080i signals but most only allow gray side panels, zooming or stretching when displaying 480i or 480p images. I am not familiar with you particular equipment. I'd suggest posing a question about this on the HDTV Hardware Forum. Maybe someone there who is familiar with your STB and display can tell you what the situation is.

My equipment will not allow gray side panels, zooming or stretching of 720p or 1080i images, so I just keep the contrast at the correct level, do all my viewing in a fairly dark room and avoid watching WFOR-DT too much when they're transmitting upconverted 4:3 pictures. I always use gray side panels when viewing standard-definition (480i or 480p) images. And I avoid spending hours on-end watching channels with bright, static supers like CNBC, MSNBC, CNN, Fox Newschannel, etc., as those images can burn-in, too (though I doubt that the transparent, low-luminance CBS "Eye", NBC "Peacock", etc. can cause any harm aside from just being as annoying as hell.)

I will inevitably have to replace my set's three CRTs someday and it won't be cheap since they are 9-inch CRTs. I resigned myself to that fact as part of the cost of ownership when I bought the set. I don't expect alternative imaging technologies such as DLP or LCD to improve to the point of approaching CRT quality for several years, so I'm sure I'll be replacing my CRTs at least once over the lifetime of the set. Any when I do, I'll just send WFOR the bill!;) By the way, plasma displays can also suffer burn-in.

Originally posted by Venkat
Does it mean My tv is at risk for "burn ins" due to upconversion to 1080? Can I expect the same (4:3 format) with WBZL?

IS there a way I can stretch it to full screen?

If you go into the SETUP menu on the SIR-T150 and select 4:3 instead of 16:9 as your screen's format, then you have the option of zooming the images up to fill your 16:9 display. This eliminates the dreaded black bars on upconverted 4:3 material and works pretty well with WBZL's letterboxed material (which they have been airing inside of a 16:9 black frame).

I have it on good authority that WFLX-DT has been testing on channel 28-1. We don't know whether they have taken delivery on their ATSC encoder but we think it'll be any time now.

"Stayed tuned!"

Originally posted by David McRoy
I have it on good authority that WFLX-DT has been testing on channel 28-1. We don't know whether they have taken delivery on their ATSC encoder but we think it'll be any time now.

"Stayed tuned!"

So, is there any way I will be able to receive this channel without putting an outside antenna up (in Pembroke Pines)? I would like to be able to see "24" in widescreen.

You're probably going to need an outdoor antenna from your location.

Until they receive and install their encoder, all you're going to get is evidence of some signal strength from a carrier on channel 28-1 when they happen to be testing. I'll monitor 28-1 periodically from up here and let you know if they start transmitting a datatream.

On Sunday just for the heck of it I punched up channel 28 on my Samsung SIR-T150 here in Coral Gables and the red led was changing between red and orange and the signal meter was jumping from 0 to 1 bar. I was wondering if they had started testing. I received no signal though. Will their signal at full power reach coral gables? I can receive their analog 29 with just a little snow. I have given up on WSVN ever passing anything but 480i.

I just called WFLX Fox 29 in Palm Beach and spoke with Norm in Engineering. He says that they are installing the antenna right now and are doing testing on and off. Their anticipated sign on is about a month away. I expressed sadness that they could not get it in time for superbowl but they would have many converts in south florida leaving WSVN if they can get things in shape.

He also said that if you can get regular 29 right now then you will be able to pick up the signal on 28 since it is a digital signal and easier to tune.

I thanked him for the info and hung up.

That is great news! It sounds like I will have no problem receiving them in coral gables. Thanks for the info. I too will be switching from WSVN to them for my fox shows if they do 480p widescreen.:D

I seem to recall being told that they would upconvert everything to 1080i, but I'm not sure. If they do, it's just as well since a professional format converter will do the job so much better than anything built into our monitors or STBs.

WFLX-DT is currently testing into a dummy load (not their antenna.)

Watch for on-air testing on channel 28-1, possibly sometime this week.

I really hope all the WPB stations make it on soon. Since moving to Saint Lucie from Boca, I have lost all OTA HD :(

Yes, let's get it up and running by next Tuesday's "24". I do receive 29 very well with my inside RS amplified antenna, so I guess I'll be able to receive 28-1 after all!

I would ask that someone else call them and ask for engineering. Tell them you live in South Florida and there is quite a buzz around their Dtv launch on the internet. Ask them if there are any scheduled tower testing that we can be on the lookout for with our own equipment and if they would be interested in using avsforum participants as a free resource to gauge signal strength in different locales.

I would call them but I already did and don't want to be a pain in their ...

Telephone Number: 561-845-2929

They were running the transmitter into the dummy load over the weekend and the transmitter shut down. They are working on getting it back up sometime this week for more testing into the dummy load with hopes of feeding the antenna by next week. When I learn that they are testing on-air I'll let you all know via this thread.

Norm at WFLX-DT says that they are interested in reception reports so I'lll email them directions to this thread so that they can monitor our reports. Thanks to romy101 for this suggestion!

Dave, was that a dummy load or a load of dummys? I can see the antenna from my house and I have seen no new antenna work. Is the new antenna already up?. If it is I sure dont see it.
Sandy

Yes, the DTV antenna and feed line have been in place since last summer, all ready to go.

Don't mean to take away from the West Palm crowd, but down here in the Pembroke Pines area we can't get NBC because of a FCC snag and a channel infringement. That is, NBC is worried about their Miami channel.
So +++++++

Will NBC putting up something for the West Palm crowd or are we all waiting for the antenna to be near the CBS antenna ????

I hear that the olympics in being televised on NBC-DT, but where in South Fla. will that be ??

The only way you can get the NBC HDTV coverage of the 2002 Winter Olympics in South Floridfa is from HDNet, channel 199 on DirecTV.

WPTV-DT (NBC affliate) West Palm Beach is approximately another 6 months away, according to what they told a Forum member. They will broadcast on channel 55.

WTVJ-DT (NBC O & O) Miami is reportedly still awaiting an approval from the FCC for a channel swap request that, if approved, would allow them to put their DTV antenna on WFOR's tower, giving them better coverage in Broward County than their original channel assignment (channel 30) would allow, since they would have had to keep their antenna further south to avoid interference to another station to the north (WFLX-TV, channel 29.) It's a lot like the existing situation that keeps them from getting into Broward with their NTSC service on channel 6...they have to keep their antenna further south to avoid interference with channel 6 (NTSC) in Orlando. Depending on how the FCC rules they will either be on 30 or 31.

So Dave;
It appears that West Palm will get NBC before broward.

It has been almost a year now that NBC put in that request for the FCC channel change.
It sounds line the FCC is slow and NBC isn't pushing.

Just to verify, here in So. Fla. we can only get (sometimes in prime time) in High Def:
CBS 4-1
ABC 10-1
PBS 2-3

And, full time via DirecTV (not limited to So. Fla)
HDnet 199
HBO 509

WPBT-DT (PBS) 2-1, 2-3 (remapped from 18-1, 18-3) 4:3/480/60i SD on 2-3 with some high-def in 16:9/1080/60i on 2-1

WFOR-DT (CBS) 4-1 (remapped from 22-1) 4:3/480/60i SD upconverted to 1080/60i with some high-def in 16:9/1080/60i

WSVN-DT (Fox) 7-1 (remapped from 8-1) 4:3/480/60i SD only

WPLG-DT (ABC) 10-1 (remapped from 9-1) 4:3/480/60i SD upconverted to 720/60p with some high-def in 16:9/720/60p

WBZL-DT (WB) 39-1 (remapped from 19-1) 4:3/480/60i SD upconverted to 720/60p

...all from Miami.

And hopefully by next week:

WFLX-DT (Fox) 29-1 (remapped from 28-1) with (supposedly) 4:3/480/60i SD and 16:9/480/60p ED upconverted to 1080/60i from West Palm Beach. They will initially be in testing phase. I don't know when they'll commence regular programming.

Dave,

Thanks for the continuing status reports on the WPB stations. Many of us here in Broward are completely frustrated with the FOX/NBC situation in Miami, so we are anxiously looking forward to the WPB FOX & NBC affiliates going digital. With any luck, some of us just might be able to pick up their signals.

Rudy

Dave could you add to that info by telling us if all these stations are 24/7 or just operating certain periods like WBZL-DT. I am up in Melbourne almost 180 miles from the Broward/Dade county ant farm. In the past I have gotten a lock on some of the Miami stations and it would be helpful to know if they are on the air all the time or just certain hours. I have been most successful with WBZL-DT since they are using an open frequency that is not used by any one else on the Florida Peninsula. However, I have been able to over come the jamming from other stations and lock both WFOR-DT and WSVN-DT. I am hoping to have better results with the WPB stations though barring they are pulling full power and up at the same approximate height.

According to this website:
http://www.broadcast.net/~sbe88/
WFLX-DT should be on the air by Wednesday, 2/27
I wonder if that is when they will turn on the OTA transmitter for the first time????
I can't wait to dx their signal from 120 miles away!

What time are the tests being conducted ? I am straight south of the antenna, I think, and should be able to pick up the signal at Wiles and 441 in Coral Springs. Scanning tonight did not pick up the signal. I am using Dish 6000.

Gireesh.

After hearing Robert's success in Boynton, I decided I had to see some HD on my Panasonic 34WX50 34" widescreen.

After searching ebay, vanns.com and talking to "Let's go digital" (maddening), I found two SIR-T150 Samsung OTA HD receivers at the West Palm BestBuy yesterday and with the "Preferred Customer" 10% off coupon, and $540+tax, I headed to RadioShack to complete the toy shopping. (First salesman at BestBuy said they did not have any, but another overheard conversation and pointed to the two boxes above our heads not five feet away. BTW, Brandsmart does not carry them.)

At my local RS, I picked up the VU-90XR antenna (on sale at $34), the 30db preamp ($70!), a five foot mast, and a couple mounting brackets and raced home.

I shorten the documentary here - with the antenna mounted on a tripod in my livingroom (Concrete block house with metal stud walls), I get WFOR-CBS 22 which auto mapped to 4-1 very solid, but the unit does not find it when "memorizing stations". The reception meter puts up 6 bars which is about 50% of full scale.

For a brief period around six or seven pm, I recieved 18-1 PBS SDTV and 18-3 the PBS HD station, but the signal was borderline so the picture froze alot. Later and this morning, I can't lock on either. Hopefully moving to the attic will enable this station. When it was able to lock, the HD image was astounding.

I searched for the other Miami DTV stations but couldn't even get a blinking red light or a single bar on the reception guage.

As for WFOR - the signal is crystal clear. The SIR-T150 indicates the signal is "HD" but the image is 4:3 so there are bars on my 16:9 and at 1080i the TV will not stretch the image. (We watch all 4:3 from Adelphia cable in edge stretch mode) The wife already thinks the TV is too small and the bars just prove it. The picture is much sharper than the cable image (non-stretched for comparison).

Interestingly, WFOR- 4.1 almost comes in without the amp. Perhaps in the attic it will. RS had an amplified stealth "bar" antenna for $79 that might work nice, and a real nice amplified set top antenna for when West Palm stations finally get active .

Now I just need to find an electrician to pull some cable up the wall and mount the stuff in the attic.

Alan

After about 30 seconds of "searching", the digital guide for WFOR-4-1 comes up empty. Are they transmitting the info?

Alan

Alan,
I've only ever seen channel guide info for WPBT Channel 2, and that happened only once several months ago. I recall that it was on a Saturday, and it displayed the name of the program along with a brief description and the running time. On my SIR-T150 I was able to search through the entire day's programming, and once it loaded it was pretty fast. I don't think any of the other digital channels are broadcasting guide info.

Anyone else seeing three diagonal white lines on WFOR-DT every once in a while? It seemed like one particular commercial, (a hammer smashing prices with a loud bang), was plagued by the three lines.

Alan

I watch WFOR-DT most nights, never seen the lines you are refering to.

I moved the RadioShack VU-90XR (giant) antenna to the front room of the house and pulled in more stations last night. I am able to get WPBTDT-18/2.1 now and oh what a sight. The wife and I sat watching the HD demo saying "wow" every time the scene changed. It is just so crisp and the colors so phenomenal. We were the knights that go "wow".

Moving to that room added the digital WB channel 39 but their picture quality was terrible. It looked like twenty year old copies of copies of videotapes. No wow for them.

The SIR-T150 was trying hard to lock on the Miami ABC digital station, but just short. I didn't fiddle with redirecting the antenna since I was enjoying watching the PBS demo too much...wow...

I just can't believe how much better the HD picture is over the DVD picture. I had been telling the wife it would be "twice as nice" but secretly I wasn't really sure...WOW...(especially since I put the $140 Silver Serpents on the DVD and used the standard cables that came with the SIR-T150 for the HDTV signal...it might be hard to convince me that I need to spend another $140 for quality cables when it looks so good...wow...)

Anyway, thanks to Robert for posting how to make it possible from Boynton...wow...

Alan...wow...

I get those a lot when they are showing a local commercial during a HDTV broadcast. I do not get them during the program or a network commercial. It looks like a sync problem when they go local for a break. I use a Samsung SIR-T150 with a Panasonic CT34WX50.

Also want to let WFLX-DT 28 know all of us in Miami are looking forward to watching all of our favorite FOX shows on digital 28 and not on horrible 480i WSVN DT8

Originally posted by dharding
Also want to let WFLX-DT 28 know all of us in Miami are looking forward to watching all of our favorite FOX shows on digital 28 and not on horrible 480i WSVN DT8

I wonder if this will make WSVN finally get their act together! Its an outrage that the 15th DMA Fox affiliate station can't do what the 40 th DMA station can. Everyboy should let WSVN know they will be tuning to WFLX instead.

Can someone tell me at what times WFLX-DT is doing their testing.

Gireesh.

A few minutes later...

Just spoke to Norm. They ran into some computer glitch, they will begin testing within two weeks. According to Norm, they will make an announcement on the air when they start testing.

Gireesh.

Computer glitch?:rolleyes: Care to be more specific?

An ATSC encoder is basically a task-specific computer. Just like your ATSC receiver is just a tuner feeding a task-specific computer (decoder). Also, microwave and OTA transmitters are generally controlled using PCs these days.

Come on, whose computers are down for 2 weeks! Sounds like they are really dragging their feet! Reminds me of an HMO! "Sorry our computers are down."

Just received from WPBF:

"We will begin digital broadcasts in May of this year. High Definition may start
the following month."

This just in from WPEC:

"We are receiving and installing equipment at the present time and expect to be broadcasting Digital Television (DTV) this summer.

Initially we will be broadcasting HDTV for all CBS programming that is available in High Definition. CBS is the leader in HDTV with the greatest number of HD broadcasts per week. I expect this to continue. I would not be surprised if all CBS entertainment programming in prime time is sent in HDTV within the next year or two."

I have spoken to Joe Garcia of WFOR and he has told me that the other two viacom owned assets in S FLA WTVX-DT 50, WBFS-DT 32, will be OTA in May. In fact, he almost sounded like they are just waiting to switch the transmitters on before the deadline.

Still looks like there won't be any NBC HD coming from either end of south Fla. anytime soon.

Last night the retrace lines again appeared, for me, frequently during commercials in the movie "Breakdown" on WFOR-DT. There seems to be some correlation to volume peaks.

Its bad enough that commercials usually have compressed audio so they seem louder, now we have to put up with black bars, lower def, and for some reason retrace lines...

I think they ought to do an edge stretch on 4:3 material to force the commercial makers to get in the HD game sooner...yeah, yeah, we 16:9 guys...

I just figured out that pointing my antenna at Miami, will put WPBF-DT 40 miles and 153 degrees off the beam when it comes on line. Looks like I'll need to go up in the attic again in May. This transition period is going to be painful with some stations 40 miles away to the south and some stations 40 miles away to the north! Perhaps that stealth bar antenna would have been a better idea. It probably has two main lobes rather than one.

Alan

WPTV just responded with:

"We hope to be on the air by September 2002."

And WXEL-DT ?

Originally posted by satpro
And WXEL-DT ?

No answer yet, but the ink on the question is still a little wet. When/If they answer I'll post the reply.

Alan

Did anyone else catch this ? What the heck was going on around 9pm ?

WXEL responded:

"we are still raising money for the digital conversion and will not be broadcasting in digital until May 2003. If you would like to contribute to our digital campaign please call 561.737.8000 and ask for member services. Thank you.

...

WXEL TV42 & 90.7FM
P.O. Box 6607
West Palm Beach, FL 33405

Originally posted by gireesh
Did anyone else catch this ? What the heck was going on around 9pm ?

Yes, I saw it, too. Then they switched to the SD feed of "The Drew Carey Show".

While digital channel surfing, I ran across the Simpsons fillling the whole screen of my 16:9 last night. The data display said that WSVN was transmitting an HD signal.

Was it HD or zoomed SD transmitted at HD?

On WFOR (CBS) the SD material shows black pillars and the data display usually says HD, but I think I have seen it reading SD once.

On WBZL (WB) the data display says SD and everything has black pillars. (The image is usually so blurry, it seems a waste to be transmitting it digital.)

I haven't been able to get WPLG (ABC) to lock yet. The LED flickers, but not enough bits to make a picture, I guess. Hoping the attic mount will add this station.

Alan

Originally posted by gireesh
WPLG-DT aired 720p Tests Last Night

How did you detect this?

Is the PQ of "720p signal converted to 1080i" by a SIR-T150 going to be any different than 1080i material broadcast at 1080i? i.e. Is there any degredation or improvement over WPBT (PBS) which continues to astound the wife and I.

(Based on the idea that scanning a picture at 600bpi and downsampling to 100dpi, seems to make a better image than scanning at 100dpi - I would guess that true 720p source material might look better after conversion to 1080i than 1080i source with no conversion.??? I don't think the Samsung downsamples to 540p and then converts to 1080i...)

Alan

A little bad news for Palm Beach area viewers. Your local NBC station, WPTV, filed an FCC 337 to miss the digital on air deadline. Scripps Howard Broadcasting stated that they were having trouble getting a building permit from the county for their new tower.:( Good luck with your other locals.

Jim

The ABC Test sequence had a lot of information that explicitly stated that it is a 720p broadcast. WPLG-D does 720p broadcasts.

Personally could care less about NBC. Still no OTA down south yet either i think.. The hell with them.. Now CBS and ABC are a different story. PLEASE dont file!!!

Alan,

There is some inherent additional artifacting associated with any cross-conversion between formats, including 720p to 1080i.

Your receiver is telling you what format the station is using for transmission. It can't tell you whether the source was real HD, whether 720p or 1080i, or whether it was 480p or 480i (SD). Many stations upconvert all their standard-definition sources to 1080i (or in WPLG's case, 720p) for transmission. You only get the full potential of HDTV when the source video AND the transmission format is a true HD format: 1080i or 720p.

Jim,

WPTV's waiver application was fully expected since they had already stated that they wouldn't be able to make it for another 6 months or so. As for NBC, I wouldn't completely discount them as far as future HD content goes.

Dave,

Any more word about when WFLX will begin testing in earnest?

Ron

looks like this site has been updated.

http://www.broadcast.net/~sbe88/

Originally posted by satpro
looks like this site has been updated.

http://www.broadcast.net/~sbe88/

Well, I guess they at least plan to be up by 7:30 p. m., Wednesday, March 27!;)

Seriously, last I heard was they'd resume testing within the next week.

After crawling around in the attic for several hours and trying three different locations, I am so frustrated...

I had hoped that moving the antenna up into the attic would add 9/10.1 WPLG to my reception list, but not only did 9/10.1 not get better, I lost WSVN 8/7.1 FOX.

It seems the UHF reception got better in the attic, and the VHF reception got worse. Where I had only one bar showing on the reception meter for 8,18,19,and 22 before, I now have two bars for 18+19, and three bars for 22, but no bars for 8 and 9, bouncing to 5 bars then back to none. The LED flickers so much it is yellow, but never gets to green on the VHF stations.

This is truly frustrating and to make it worse, this morning, WFOR 22/4.1 has frequent jittery screen episodes with the three retrace lines.

The situation doesn't look better in the coming months, because WPBF is 40 miles to the opposite direction of the antenna, so I'm probably going to have to put up two antennas. Guess I better pull two new coax cables Friday instead of just one.

One thing I don't understand...don't all these TV stations have vertical antennas? So why are the elements of the TV antenna horizontal?

Ugh...this situation is breaking my head.

Alan

Alan,

If you are close to the Lantana antenna farm you may be experiencing overload interference on the VHF band from WPTV channel 5 and/or WPEC-TV channel 12. This was the case for Sandy Sanchez who lives practically under the shadow of WPTV's tower. How ar away are you fro the intersection of Lantana Road and SR7/U. S. Highway 441? It is in the southwest coner of this intersection where the transmitters for 5, 12, 29 and 42 are located.

I've been told to look for on-air testing from WFLX-DT within the next few days. Try tuning 28-1 from time to time, guys.

Will do, Dave. Thanks!

Originally posted by David McRoy
Alan,

... you may be experiencing overload interference ... How ar away are you from the intersection of Lantana Road and SR7/U. S. Highway 441? ...

I'm 6 miles from those antennas, at 64 degrees off the back of the antenna (116 off the front). The antenna supposedly has a 12:1 front to back ratio with 5.9 db gain and 42 degree wide half power front lobe for channels 7-13. I don't know what the back lobes look like.

The fluctuation from zero to five bars to zero does lend credibility to an overload scenario. I guess I could try pointing the antenna east away from the Miami stations in hopes of nulling the overloading signal. Maybe I should hang a wall of aluminum foil to the northwest...

Maybe I should rent a DVD and forget Miami exists!
I'm just so frustrated knowing the signal is so close to being received. When the antenna was in my front bedroom, I found a hot spot where I got Fox and actually got a few frames of the ABC station.

Originally posted by David McRoy
I've been told to look for on-air testing from WFLX-DT within the next few days. Try tuning 28-1 from time to time, guys.

If you can, ask your contacts if "24" can be broadcast from the 480p source as an excellent test of their hardware...

Pogo,

To get Miami from here I am afraid you will need an external high gain antenna with a rotator and posibly a band splitter. I also have an antenna in my attic pointed strait at the Miami antenna farm and it did not work. I had to use the biggest Radio Shack antenna on top of my house and a band splitter to reduce interference to get chs 8 & 9 from Miami. I now get them solid but it took a lot of trial and error!

Sandy

No signal tonight from WFXL-DT at Wiles & 441.

Alan don't give up just yet.:( Is there any way you can put your antenna on your roof.

I have mine outside and it is very low to my roof tiles so it's hidden from the front of my home.

Michael

...and anyone else who is getting overload from channel 5 or any lowband VHF channel into highband VHF channels, such as 8 and 9...the DTV allocations for WSVN and WPLG:

Here is a link to a view of the band splitter that Sandy Sanchez and I have been using to solve this problem:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F002%5F018%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1236

It's the Radio Shack Cat.# 15-1236.


Feed the antenna to the "OUT" (remember, this device is bi-directional) and feed the Hi VHF and the UHF outputs (which are labeled "IN") into a two-way combiner. Here's a splitter/combiner that's also bi-directional:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F002%5F008%5F003&product%5Fid=930%2D0061

The RS Cat.# is 930-0061. The moddel number is 2512-25.

For this particular application you would feed the High VHF and the UHF "outputs" from the band splitter into the "OUT"s on the combiner/splitter. Then connect a short coax cable from the "IN" on the combiner/splitter to the antenna input of your DTV tuner.

What this does is to attenuate everything below channel 7.

To hook all this up, you can use a combination of some F-connector adapters like this:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F005%5F003%5F001%5F003&product%5Fid=278%2D275

RS Cat# is 278-275.

...and a short coax cable to feed your digital tuner. (I use this: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F002%5F008%5F002&product%5Fid=15%2D1541 )

What you'll have when you're finished will look weird but it should work to keep channel 5 from overloading your DTV tuner.

In addition to all that, I have this amplifier in the signal path as the last element feeding my DTV tuner input:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F004%5F004%5F000&product%5Fid=15%2D1113

This is RS Cat# 15-1113. (Mine actually says "15-1113C".)

If you live really close to the transmitters you may find that the amp does more harm than good. And it will definitely intoduce interference in your analog NTSC pictures, so this is strictly a trial-and-error option.

Originally posted by David McRoy
... overload from channel 5 or any lowband VHF channel into highband VHF channels, such as 8 and 9...the DTV allocations for WSVN and WPLG:

[antenna->splitter->combiner->tuner details removed]

... amplifier ... as the last element feeding my DTV tuner input:

[antenna->splitter->combiner->amp->tuner]

...

David, Thanks so much for this detail. I was in the RS outlet last night asking what I could do about the overloading, but they were not up to the challenge.

I'll give this "low vhf filter" a try...wow, some hope.

You are putting the amp after the combiner, near the tuner??? Shouldn't the splitter/combiner/amp combo be as close to the antenna as possible? Or does putting the amp close to the tuner (more house shielding), give better isolation from the Channel 5 signal?

I don't know what 50' of "quad shielded" coax does to the signal to noise ratio, but it seems like putting the amp after the long run would normally be less desireable than putting it before the long run.

I don't need any kind of "dummy load" at the VHF-LO output? Where does the VHF-Lo band energy go? Does it set up a standing wave reflection back through the filter into the antenna? I guess it doesn't matter, if it works...

The other thing I thought about trying was building a few coax baluns, since one of the linked articles on antenna comparisons showed an improvement over a basic balun, but their hard to get station was in the UHF, not VHF-Hi, so perhaps this would not prove useful.

At least now I have something to try. I am getting a great picture for 22, 19, and 18 with occasional overload affecting 22 and 19. It seems like the overload is blocking reception of 8, and 9.

I can't wait till tonight to try this!

Alan

This is my first post so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right. I live in Delray Beach and am using a RS VU-90 XR antenna on a rotator about 12 ft. above the ground (I'm sure much to the chagrin of my Condo Assoc.) to feed the following equipment:

Dish 6000 Receiver with 8VSB Cart.
Mitsubishi WS65857 16x9 HDTV

I am getting a good signal from the PBS, CBS, FOX, ABC and WPN stations in Miami. My signal strength usually is between 70 and 90% and since I added the rotator, dropouts are very acceptable. I have found that adding an amplifier to the antenna input probably did more harm than good.

I am really impressed with the picture quality on HDTV (now if they could do better with the program quality). I am also really impressed by the differences in picture quality between digital and analog. With analog, you have to put up with noise, ghosts, snow etc. With digital you either get a perfect picture or nothing.

I added the rotator in anticipation of the WPB stations going on the air, but found that it also was invaluable to help me find the best location to get the best signal from the Miami stations. For a while I was getting a lot of signal fluctuations on channel 22 apparently caused by multipath. Better orientation stopped the problem.

Pogo,

Yes, I placed the amplifier last so that the signal feeding it is pre-filtered to inhibit overload from channel 5, as you surmised.

My advice in your case is to try all this WITHOUT an amplifier and see what happens. I can get away with using an amp since I'm 10 miles from the Lantana antenna farm and am not aiming my antenna directly toward it...rather I'm aiming SSW toward the Miami DTV towers. Since you are further south than I you may not get any benefit from an amplifier, anyway.

And, yes, I forgot to mention terminating the Low VHF jack. RS sells 75 Ohm terminators.

Tony,

Yes, often an amplifier will do more harm than good. It depends on the situation. My favorite technique is to use an amp with adjustable gain. I tune to a DTV station of interest and adjust amplifier gain up or down while observing the receiver's "signal strength" meter (really a bit-error rate meter) and adjust for the best number. Since you are so far south (in Delray) you may not need an amp at all. I'm in extreme northeast Lake Worth (College Park) about 48 miles from the Miami DTVs, right on the edge of the radio horizon from their 1,000 ft. towers, so an amp is sometimes helpful.

I have found that rotator adjustements in 1 or 2 degree increments (!) can help optimize DTV signal stability on the weaker signals that I get from WSVN-DT and WPLG-DT.

For anyone who is quite a distance like me, adjusting the vertical angle of the antenna up by a degree or two can help with a weak signal.

In a few cases reflections from a large, reflective horizontal surface such as a nearby building roof or a large body of water can mitigate multipath in the vertical direction. This can sometimes by helped by adjusting your antenna height up or DOWN (yes, down!) by up to a foot or so in either direction. This has the effect of moving the multipath "problem" up or down in wavelength from the channel that you are having a problem with.

Good luck to you guys and let me know what happens!

Pogo, In my case amplifiers hurt rather than helped wether at the antenna or after the band splitter. I also tryed notch filters for ch 5 &12 and it did not help. I have two receivers, The Rca dtc-100 and the old Panny 50. The dtc-100 requires the band splitter to receive chs 8&9 but the Panny does not. You just have to keep trying. The best thing is to have an exterior antenna as high as possible. I did not read all the posts, is that not possible in your case? Maybe you can put some straw on top of the antenna and invoke the protected species act and tell anyone objecting that it is a nest for the endangered red tailed ospray!

After all that work, I dont watch anyting on Fox or ABC for that matter. These days all my HDTV is either from CBS, PBS, DTV, Dish or DVHS.

Good luck, Sandy

Fellow WPB threaders,

SUCCESS!! It's been a roller coaster 11 days since Robert (ZerO) listed his equipment and success in Boynton Beach, but tonight the RS VU90XR antenna is in the attic, and the HDTV tunes all five digital channels (+1 subchannel) - including all OTA South Florida High Def.

My excitement and frustration went up and down more often than Channel 18's HD station, but tonight I celebrated the successful finish of this quest.

It was David McRoy's astute remote problem analysis and precise description of the solution that has me dancing in front of the TV.

David posted a step by step guide and parts list for building a VHF-Lo band filter from RadioShack parts to eliminate interference from the analog TV stations just five and six miles away, and when I installed the filter - channels 8 and 9 snapped into view.

For anyone contemplating building the filter, the combiner/splitter RS Cat.# 930-0061 David listed may be an online order number only, but the store has a 15-1237 ($9.99) which exactly fits the spacing of the VHF-Hi and UHF ouputs of the three band splitter, and the 75-Ohm Coax "F"-Type Terminator needed is Cat. # 15-1144.

I don't need an amp to get all the channels, but I tested with it after the filter to see the effects.

My SIR-T150 "reception meter" readings are:

Channel .Station ...Net w/filter w/filter+30db amp
29->39.1 WBZL-DT .WB.....1.........6
9->10.1 .WPLG-DT .ABC....3.........6
22->4.1 .WFOR-DT .CBS....3.........7
18->2.x .WPBT-DT .PBS....2.........7
8->7.1 ...WSVN-DT .FOX....3.........7

WFOR still shows the occasional (and sometimes too frequent) three scan line problem. Since this is the only station showing this problem, I am leaning toward dhardings's assignment of blame to WFOR sync loss for the time being, but he has the same TV (Pan CT34WX40) and receiver (Samsung SIR-T150) that I have and we seem to be the only ones reporting these lines. Sometimes the image jitters so much I have to switch back to cable and watch CBS in stretched low def... The filter in out and amp in and out make no difference in this.

David - I've got a bottle of champagne here for all your help. Drop me a line at alanmcdonley at yahoo dot com. Thank You especially.

Alan

I'm surprised that the amplifier turned out to be so effective in your location. It's a good thing, as Martha Stewart might say...to have a little added headroom should a station have to temporarily reduce power for maintenence or whatever periodically.

Thanks for your parts list addendum, Alan, regarding the Cat# for the 75 ohm terminator and the in-store vs. online Cat#.

Now, to try to catch WFLX-DT testing on the air! I haven't seen anything yet...

I am considering the idea of creating an afternoon HiDef Road Rally, if there are some others that would consider opening their home to a few HiDef folks and their spouses.

I am envisioning the rally to run from 1-6pm on a Saturday afternoon. Each stop would be designed to last about 40 minutes total to allow participants to arrive, time for the HiDef owner to demonstrate the PBS demo loop and explain configuration, and then to sequence departures. It is traditional for the last rally stop to be a restaurant. I don't know of a local restaurant with HiDef, but that would be the most fitting if we could find one.

This event would be by invitation only, and this will be the only public post about this event.

Each particpant would be responsible for creating the rally leg to their home (using a rule kit), and would arrive to their own home before guests and be the last to leave their home, of course.

Non-destination participants would only be allowed as back seat drivers in the vehicle of a destination participant, and only by recommendation from a destination participant.

As I said this is an idea in the thinking only, at this point. If you are interested in participating, please send email to alanmcdonley at yahoo dot com and we will continue the thinking on this idea in a private forum.

Alan

Please read rally post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=918543#post918543

Originally posted by David McRoy
I've been told to look for on-air testing from WFLX-DT within the next few days. Try tuning 28-1 from time to time, guys.

So, what's the story?

Damn if I know. I haven't seen them testing yet, either. I'll delve...

Welcome to the forum:)

I like your idea of the rotator, unfortunately my antenna is in the attic and there isn't enough room to safely rotate the thing.

I'll have to wait and see if I have to get a rotator, 'will know once WFLX-DT comes on the air.

Gireesh.

TitanTV (http://www.titantv.com/ttv/programming/ComingSoon.asp) shows WFLX-DT going live on April FOOLS day.

WTVX-DT 50 UPN WPB

has filed for an extension and their application attachment is a real laugh. They try to claim that all of the efforts by Viacom and CBS should prove how committed they are to DTV however this station won't be on the air. This is a real laugh considering I spoke to Joe Garcia at WFOR a few weeks ago about WBFS and WTVX and he told me that they simply were not going to turn the transmitter on until the original deadline. I guess they have a reason to keep it off even longer.

WBFS-DT has also filed an almost identical application for extension. Very interesting!

I am starting to fear the same thing about WFLX!

In other news WPEC has also filed and provided no exhibits

WPTV has also filed as expected and claims that they expect a building permit from Palm Beach County by March 30th.

Originally posted by satpro

In other news WPEC has also filed and provided no exhibits



CLARIFICATION:

While it's true there is no exhibit attached to their application, the application itself states the reason for the request for extension: delays in equipment delivery.

Here's their application:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=100596872&formid=337&fac_num=52527

If you look at digital TV CP Extension applications from other stations you'll see a lot of this. In many cases it's a "CYA" thing. The FCC is saying that the majority of the stations that are filing for DTV CP Extensions are estimating that they'll only need a few extra months to get on the air and most won't be needing the extra 2nd or 3rd extensions that were provided by the Congress.

Here is WPTV's application which claims technical and legal delays as reasons that an extension is needed, and features as an exhibit a statement on the history of their efforts to build a much needed new tower and all the lengthy and costly delays that they have faced since 1988:

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/cdbsmenu.hts?context=25&appn=100595613&formid=337&fac_num=59443

I was able to get 39-1 tonite on my rabbit ears. They are showing a 4x3 window in a 16x9 frame.

The digital signal looks like a bad analog signal, I even saw analog noise. When channel four shows regular programming it looks as good if not better then the directv l2l.

About Channel 4...

I have Dish6000 and the Channel 4 coming off of it makes me want to close my eyes, it is that bad. Their OTA digital looks fantastic compared to that when they are broadcasting up-converted 480i. 1080i is fabulous.

Gireesh

Only 8 more episodes of 24 (ever, probably)...any chance I'll get to see it in widescreen?

Once again this website is reporting 3/20/02 at 7:30pm http://www.broadcast.net/~sbe88/

For WPEC-DT:

Antenna and feedline installation to commence in the middle of April, followed by air conditioning equipment installation. Transmitter manufacturer Harris has rescheduled transmitter testing to begin May 13, as a result of the delay on AC installation. Still awaiting delivery of new digital microwave STL, format converter, CBS HD reception equipment, etc., all on order.

For WFLX-DT:

Meanwhile, the local SBE Chapter is, indeed meeting at the WFLX transmitter site tonight. The Chapter's website, the link to which is in satpro's post above, seems to suggest that they might sign-on WFLX-DT tonight! Time to get ready for a fresh channel scan tonight! (Channel 28-1.)

So...did tonight's grand event get cancelled? A channel scan turned up nothing on 28-1. Oh wait....maybe they too applied for a change to their channel assignment. :rolleyes:

I have been waiting for some time for WPB to get some stations up, I'll be looking tonight as well.

Roger

I was not able to detect anything, anyone else?

I have a Sony HD100, do I have to scan for digital stations everytime a new one comes on-line or is there a way to directly tune one in?

Roger

I just called WFLX and spoke to someone named Rick in engineering. He said they haven't turned the transmitter on as yet. He was unable to give me a specific date as to when they would.

I just learned this morning that they're having problems. The two computers inside the transmitter aren't communicating and the manufacturer, Thomcast, is sending some engineeers here to troubleshoot the problem.

Dave, good to know that WFLX is trying... if only one of the NBC stations got their act together.

Dave, anything new?

Rog

I haven't heard anything yet. Don't know when the guys from Thomcast are supposed to come or whether they're already here. I'll look into it.

WPEC-DT now shows "FCC Extension" on the titantv site.

Roger

Originally posted by Roger Clark
WPEC-DT now shows "FCC Extension" on the titantv site.

Roger

Roger,
See my post from 3/20/02 (second post on this page). We had to file for an extension because of delays in air-conditioning installation and equipment shipping.

Does anyone know where or if WFLX plans to announce their initial digital broadcast? It seems funny that a TV station would throw the switch and we would have to "discover" that they have started broadcasting.

TitanTV now shows WFLX going live on April 8.

Here's what I just got in the email!!!

Thanks for you interest in DTV broadcast. We should be testing on air this week . I don't know the exact time. We will be running the DTV transmitter from around 5 pm until midnight until we get more DTV viewers
Call or email me with and comments about what you see.
Angelo "Butch" Figurella
Chief Engineer
WFLX FOX29 West Palm Beach FL.
561-845-2929 X 117
<bfigurella@wflxfox29.com>


This is exciting!

Thanks for passing this along, pogo!

Time for more channel scans...keeping my fingers crossed.

In case anyone's wondering about the "..5 p. m. to midnight" remark from Butch, yes, the FCC does, indeed allow DTV stations to operate during limited hours (for now).

I emailed them and this was their reply today 4/1/02:


Hi Rohan
I glad to hear you are ready for DTV. We will be testing this week. I don't know exactly yet. Our DTV channel is 28.
We should be on every evening starting next week.
Thanks


No this is not an April fools joke.

I did a scan last night and didn't see anything. I will be doing one each night now.

Thanks to all for keeping track of this!

Roger

Despite the fact that WPBF-DT has been granted a CP extension on 3/26 they have told me today that they will be on the air on May 1st and the plan is for 720p.

WFLX in West Palm Beach is almost live. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130551&highlight=wflx)

Originally posted by hardrock
WFLX in West Palm Beach is almost live.

What are you saying?

Click on the red-highlighted, underlined post by hardrock. It leads to another post. It says he received a signal briefly at 5 p. m. Thursday.

Sandy,

I believe that they'll upconvert everything to 1080i, for what it's worth, but yes, the best they'll get from Fox is 16:9/480p.

Thanks for the explanation of the hardrock post. I don't watch Fox either, but lately have been surfing "FoxNews" channel on cable.

Perhaps Fox channel will have some of the FoxNews programs - I have to research this a bit.

WPEC's CBS-HD receive gear is being installed at the studio. We're going to hook-up a multisync PC monitor to the RGBHV HD output of one of the decoders to look at "The Young & the Restless" on the HD feed at 12:30 p. m. They should light-up the transponder a few minutes before the feed starts.

CBS sent us a primary and backup receiver and decoder.

What was that last post about?

Oh Wow...AFP was a cliff hanger, even in low def cable. I can't believe they left us in the middle of an emergency 180mph, air brakes out, wheel brakes fail, and "we're" at the end of the runway. Only one answer, but is he going to make it...dump the brakes, full power, gotta fly baby...

When is my heart going to slow down?

And WFOR thought the "Heat" deserved digital time?

Tower, pogo trimmed for go 'round, request emergency landing runway 9...what's that?... Fly the pattern for a week?

---------------------
Now I see its on at 10 in HD, get the barf bag mama...

New To Forum,

When Will They? Does Anyone have a clue? I like Friends and The Tonight Show. Also, What is their current status.

Thank You in Advanced.

Günter Marksteiner from WHDT returned my call this afternoon.

His direct-dial number is (561) 471-9204

http://www.whdt.net/images/GMarkst-51400.jpg

He claims that they are on target for May 1; and, that the bulk of their contracts with programming sources (unnamed) will be executed within the next 15 days.

He indicated that OTA HD would only be broadcast from their Miami antenna on Channel 44 "for now" because Adelphia Cable doesn't have the tuners necessary to distribute an HD signal.

Günter told me that they have been testing their signal since December of last year; they will continue testing regularly over the next few weeks; and, that Channel 44 will be broadcasting 24/7 after May 1.

The bad news is:
Based on their history of false promises, this information is hard to swallow.

The good news is:
Even though their projections have been way too aggressive, they haven't thrown in the towel; and, they appear to be sincere about bringing their unique product to market.

Here's to wishful thinking.

See the following thread for their Miami antenna location; and, other particulars:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=311460&highlight=whdt+miami#post311460

A back door to WHDT's old website:

http://www.whdt.net/entry.tpl

Wasn't WFLX supposed to begin broadcasting today?

Originally posted by Rudy1
Wasn't WFLX supposed to begin broadcasting today?

Yes. Is it possible they'll start during primetime????

I didn't see anything from WFLX-DT at all last night.

Tick...tock... :rolleyes:

Re: WHDT, the fact that Adelphia Cable doesn't have DTV tuners (or the means to pass HD signals) yet isn't the ONLY reason they're not broadcasting from West Palm Beach on channel 59...they still haven't installed an antenna yet.

I would be very interested to learn whether anyone has viewed any digital test transmissions on channel 44, since FCC documents indicate that it is a low-power NTSC translator:


WHDT-LP FL MIAMI USA

Licensee: GUENTER MARKSTEINER
Service Designation: TX Translator (Retransmitting) Facility or Application

Channel 44 Application
File No.: BPTTL -20011221ABA Facility ID No: 9614
CDBS Application ID No.: 5904830.

Antenna Structure Registration Number (ASRN): 10275290.

25 ° 58' 15.00" Latitude Zone:
80 ° 12' 32.00" Longitude (NAD27) Frequency Offset: None
Effective Radiated Power (ERP): 15.0 kW ERP
Ant. Height Above Average Terrain (HAAT): 0. meters HAAT
Ant. Radiation Center Above Mean Sea Level: 275.8 meters RCAMSL
Ant. Radiation Center Above Ground Level: 274. meters RCAGL

Directional Antenna ID: 42045 Pattern Rotation: 0.0°
Not in a Border Zone
.

The Titan TV website now shows WFLX-DT's status as "Under Review". :(

I have been unable to detect them at all. What exactly does "under review" mean anyway?

Roger

Probably means "don't hold your breath".

Hardrock has informed us on the South Florida thread that WFLX is broadcasting presently...

Just called home, since I am out, and had the wife tune in 28 on the DTC-100...it immediately mapped to 29-1, but it's not strong enough to pull-in a stable picture without moving the antenna, which is peaked for WFOR, WPLG, and WPBT -DTs...I'm confident I'll be able to do it and get a better
signal when I get home later, if it's still broadcasting...presently she was getting 30 signal strength from Pembroke Pines, at
25 59' 41.30"
80 22' 49.62"

Thanks, aviators99!

I'll be at home to check this out within a couple of hours.

Also going to attempt reception of WHDT-DT's Coral Springs DTV repeater. Hardrock reported receiving a brief signal from them on channel 44.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Also going to attempt reception of WHDT-DT's Coral Springs DTV repeater.

Dave,

I remember reading about WHDT's repeater in Coral Springs; but, I believe this information is either outdated or inaccurate.

In accordance with the coordinates provided by the FCC, WHDT's antenna tower is located at 350 NW 215th Street (County Line Road - Broward, Miami-Dade border) in North Miami (Southwest quadrant of the intersection at County Line Road and State Road 7).

Getting a BER reading of 92 on the RCA DTC100 and a Signal Meter indication near the top of the "Good" range on the Zenith IQB64W10W built-in ATSC tuner here in College Park in extreme NE Lake Worth...the same signal quality on both tuners as with WFOR-DT and WPBT-DT in Miami, but better than the low- to mid-80s BER and "Normal" readings on WSVN-DT and WPLG-DT. (WBZL-DT must be off the air right now.)

The Zenith is getting it on 28-2, the RCA is getting it on 29-1 (where it's supposed to be).

I just spoke with WFLX Chief Engineer Butch Figurella to congratulate him. He said that the picture quality of his 1080i upconvert should look considerably better on prime-time Fox programming beginning at 8 p. m. The quality of the taped syndicated programming (sourced from analog and digital satellite feeds and timeshifted on DVCPro digital videotape) is a limiting factor on everything else. The Fox primetime feed will be sent into his Divicom upconverter directly from the output of the IRD that receives the Fox digital feed, including the shows that will be sent in 16:9/480p. These will be upconverted to 1080i for transmission as well.

As Hardrock stated on the Miami thread, Butch will have the DTV transmitter up and down this afternoon, observing ATSC into NTSC interference that some NTSC receivers are getting. (I see no such interference on either tuner here, about 10 miles from the transmitters.)

Hardrock:

Regarding the channel 44 filings, links to which you posted: "WHDT-LP" indicates an NTSC operation. I can't find any reference on either of the documents for WHDT-LP on channel 44 that states that it's digital. Did I miss something?

Originally posted by David McRoy
Regarding the channel 44 filings, links to which you posted: "WHDT-LP" indicates an NTSC operation. I can't find any reference on either of the documents for WHDT-LP on channel 44 that states that it's digital. Did I miss something?

Dave,

I don't think you missed a thing. As I stated, I don't know how Günter intends to pull it off. I just wanted to point out that he received approval of his modified construction permit only two (2) months ago. Having the details of this permit would be helpful in determining his intentions.

I don't know anything about the technical aspects involved with generating an ATSC signal with a Low Power NTSC antenna. Is this feasible - without consideration of the licensing issues?

Is it possible that he converted the antenna to ATSC with the modified construction permit he received in February?

Does the fact that WHDT previously purchased the following Low Power DTV transmitter have any relevance?

XMT-100 DTV Transmitter (http://www.ktechtelecom.com/XMT-100.html)

Operating an ATSC with an antenna that was designed and constructed for NTSC is possible under some circumstances. (WFOR-DT did this while at low power last summer...they were using a backup NTSC antenna and feedline until their DTV antenna and feedline could be installed.) And sometimes NTSC antennas can be modified for optimization as ATSC antennas.

Re: the low power transmitters, I remember K-Tech's press releases on Gunther's purchase last year. I suspect he wants to begin at low power so he can just get his signal into cable headends and build from there.

When you do a "TV Station Query" at www.fcc.gov the DTV stuff always has "Digital" in red letters at the upper right of the documents pertaining to DTV operations.

Dave, I don't beleive that there is any difference in an antenna, cut for the same channel, when using an ATSC or regular analog NTSC transmitter. As a matter of fact, the VSWR of an NTSC transmitter is very critical, as it can cause phase shifts at the color subcarrier. Also, in a UHF channel, the bandwidth of the antenna is way above the need for a single channel. It's probably so broadbanded that it can go one channel up or down. That is probably why WFOR was using a standby antenna at first. They are on the same tower as WLTV-23, and they probably were either using their standby, or diplexing into the main antenna.
As far as WFLX, I have checked several times tonight, after 8 PM, and have not found signals on Ch.28 Digital. I am using a Sony HD100 receiver, and I am using the antenna tuning feature, just to search for a BER on that channel. I even aimed my antenna that way, but no dice. I am in Boca, by Military and Yamato. Are you getting any signal around this time (8:50 PM)?
Best viewing,

Jose

I also have a Sony HD100 and have seen nothing on 28 tonight. I will keep checking, maybe we'll have something for the weekend...

Roger

Well, I was out having dinner with friends until after 10 last night and when I returned they were not on the air.

They were not on from when I got home at 6pm and are still not on.

WFLX is on now. Finally, I can delete WSVN from my STB's channel memory. :-)

65 signal for WFLX-DT on my DTC-100 from Pembroke Pines without much tweaking at all!! Image perfectly stable.

Coordinates are:

25 59' 41.30"
80 22' 49.62"

Reception in Coral Gables here in Miami-Dade county is perfect! Signal meter on Samsung SIR-T150 same as local Miami stations. Reception also perfect on Panasonic TUDST-51 I use with HD-1000 DVHS. GOODBYE WSVN!

Originally posted by David McRoy

I just spoke with WFLX Chief Engineer Butch Figurella to congratulate him. He said that the picture quality of his 1080i upconvert should look considerably better on prime-time Fox programming beginning at 8 p. m. The quality of the taped syndicated programming (sourced from analog and digital satellite feeds and timeshifted on DVCPro digital videotape) is a limiting factor on everything else. The Fox primetime feed will be sent into his Divicom upconverter directly from the output of the IRD that receives the Fox digital feed, including the shows that will be sent in 16:9/480p. These will be upconverted to 1080i for transmission as well.



Dave,

Unless I'm mistaken, "Dark Angel" (which is on right now), is supposed to be in 16:9/480p. However, I'm seeing a 4:3 image with black bars on either side. Are they still in a testing phase at WFLX? I'm asking because when I posed the very same question about WBZL's letterboxed programs (which they continue to air framed on all four sides in black), someone on the forum indicated it was because they were in a "testing" phase.

Rudy

It is 9:27 and I am watching Dark Angel in 480i and 4 x 3. I check my stb again and again. It looks like I am watching WSVN but I am watching the new WFLX. Where is the 480p upconverted to 1080i and 16 x 9 fox widescreen? Have we been hosed?:confused:

Fellas,

Does anyone have a comprehensive list of the recurring widescreen programming from FOX - with days and times? I want to send it to Butch Figurella at WFLX.

WFLX-DT - Channel 28 - FOX (http://www.wflxfox29.com/)
Phone: (561) 845-2929
Email: rsanluis@raycommedia.com

Email: bfigurella@raycommedia.com
Cell phone: (561) 310-9177

Is it possible that someone may just have forgotten to flip the switch?

Just spoke to Butch at WFLX. He again confirmed that they will be passing all FOX's widescreen programming.

He explained that the tech at the controls last night apparently forgot to "flip the switch".

Originally posted by hardrock
Just spoke to Butch at WFLX. He again confirmed that they will be passing all FOX's widescreen programming.

He explained that the tech at the controls last night apparently forgot to "flip the switch".

Thanks, Hardrock. I'll be watching X-Files tomorrow night in widescreen, I guess...

Originally posted by aviators99
I'll be watching X-Files tomorrow night in widescreen, I guess...

As you insinuated, it's not a good bet. Even the veteran DTV stations are still lax with the switch.

Am I to assume that WFLX will be FOX in either 1080i or 480 wide screen, and WSVN will only transmit SD?
WSVN is digital, but the picture is exactly like NTSC on my cable.
(Still in left field)

WFLX-DT (28) 29-1 is now displaying a full screen test pattern...it looks out of focus to me, and I can't seem to get it in focus no matter what I do. Do others see it out of focus?

First, yipee!!! My first of the air HD reception.

Yes, it looks out of focus or fuzzy to me also (Sony HD100).

BTW, anyone with an HD100 know if you can directly tune an off the air digital station?

Roger

X-Files looked better than expected in 480p...I switched over for a few minutes while Alias was at commercial...My Hipix successfully recorded it, so I'll be watching it later.

Interestingly enough, my DTC-100 only gets a 65 signal strength, but my hipix is getting a 90 (?)

I was travelling Friday and missed the AFP out-of-runway-no-brakes-emergency conclusion.

Did Lt. (Giggy)? decide to touch and go on his own? Did the IP take over or yell at Giggy to clean up and go?

Alan

Originally posted by pogo
I was travelling Friday and missed the AFP out-of-runway-no-brakes-emergency conclusion.

Did Lt. (Giggy)? decide to touch and go on his own? Did the IP take over or yell at Giggy to clean up and go?

Alan

We'll never know...it wasn't on, and never will be. How come you never responded to my offer to meet you at Sun n Fun?

Originally posted by aviators99


We'll never know...it wasn't on, and never will be. How come you never responded to my offer to meet you at Sun n Fun?

Ouch. They pulled the show? No sex, no violence...no chance.

As for not answering your note, I was distracted by a business trip to North Carolina.

Why is it that the fox digital channel looks different than cbs and abc. For instance i dont get the sidebars like i do with cbs and abc. Also my sattelite receiver doesnt display 480p. Today im watching Ally mcbeal and im not getting the widescreen version. Even though my receiver isnt 480p shouldnt i still get the widescreen version please help! is this normal that i never get nothing on fox widescreen even though it is still a clear picture rather than the analog feed!

Eddy,

I see from your post on the WPB thread that you're watching WSVN on channel 8 which doesn't broadcast widescreen FOX programming.

FOX widescreen is only available on channel 28 in South Florida.

How come i dont get a good reading on channel 28 and i get a good reading on abc and cbs. DO i have to point my antenna different i think actually channel 4 is harder to get then 7 but i cant seem to get channel 28-1 which came in fine yesterday but today i had horrible readings!

One question why doesnt channel 7 do there 480p widescreen through there south florida station through channel 8 digital! Why did they choose to do it through channel 28 which is located in west palm beach! DO they have any plans of doing widescreen 480p through channel 8 any time soon!

Eddy,

You're talking about two completely different stations here. They both happen to be Fox affiliates, but the one in Miami is WSVN-DT, which is on channel 8-1 (remapped to 7-1) and the one in West Palm Beach is WFLX-DT on channel 28-1 (or 28-2, according to my Zenith tuner...which is probably an anomaly) remapped to 29-1. WSVN's tower is in Broward County and WFLX's tower is in Palm Beach County. They serve two different TV markets: Miami-Ft. Lauderdale (#16 ADI) and West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce (#40 ADI).

As to why they don't send the same format during Fox programming: WSVN's owner (Sunbeam Broadcasting) decided to just pass the standard signal in the 4:3/720X480/60i format while WFLX's owner (Raycom) decided o take Fox's 16:9/720X480/60p format and upconvert it to 16:9/1920X1080/60i for transmission.

Last might was my first-ever exposure to 16:9/720X480/60p upconverted to 16:9/1920X1080/60i (on the two-hour "Aly McBeal" from Fox.)

It was about what I expected: it looked just like a movie on DVD when viewed on my HTPC (Home Theater Computer), which upconverts the 720X480/60i signal on the disc to 960X540/60p, with 3/2 pull-down correction.

What amazes me is that more producers are not shooting in widescreen. Everything should be shot this way...the format allows for composition that is much more pleasing to the eye.

Originally posted by David McRoy
Eddy,

You're talking about two completely different stations here. They both happen to be Fox affiliates, but the one in Miami is WSVN-DT, which is on channel 8-1 (remapped to 7-1) and the one in West Palm Beach is WFLX-DT on channel 28-1 (or 28-2, according to my Zenith tuner...which is probably an anomaly) remapped to 29-1. WSVN's tower is in Broward County and WFLX's tower is in Palm Beach County. They serve two different TV markets: Miami-Ft. Lauderdale (#16 ADI) and West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce (#40 ADI).

As to why they don't send the same format during Fox programming: WSVN's owner (Sunbeam Broadcasting) decided to just pass the standard signal in the 4:3/720X480/60i format while WFLX's owner (Raycom) decided o take Fox's 16:9/720X480/60p format and upconvert it to 16:9/1920X1080/60i for transmission.

<SNIP>

According to WSVN's chief engineer, at this point it has been a local decision not to pass 480p, because they are of the belief that it's wasteful to spend money on 720p or 1080i and only pass 480p. And they won't buy an encoder that is limited to 480p because they think there's a good chance they'll be broadcasting HD some day. So they will eventually get an encoder (probably 720p according to him) and upconvert the 480p. They are trying to get it passed in the budget.

Well, that's some good news.

It may be the easiest, cheapest way to satisfy one of FCC Chairman Michael Powell's "voluntary" requirements :rolleyes: intended to move the DTV transition forward: the one that requires the big-four networks (and their affiliates?) to broadcast value-added programming during some predetermined percentage of prime time. It can be multicasting (expensive), it could be program-related datacasting content (somewhat costly and a pain in the ass), or it can be HDTV (but Fox doesn't want to do HDTV). Would widescreen standard-definition qualify as "value-added programming"? Who knows?

Back on the topic of last night's Aly McBeal on WFLX...did any of you guys notice how much high-frequency video peaking ("edge enhancement, as many of you call it) Fox was doing on the widescreen feed?

I found it to be objectionable. And they were doing it at to low of a frequency, too. It just put big, cartoon-like outlines on everything.

I noticed that. It was particularly irritating during scenes where the actors were against lighter backgrounds.

Please pardon the intrusion of a southern neighbor. I have not been following the progress of WPB HD since you seceded from the South Florida thread.

What is the HD status of the WPB NBC affiliate? As we in Miami-Dade are getting good reception of your WFLX-DT, perhaps we would also be able to receive the announced NBC fall HD programming from WPB. The Miami NBC affiliate is still somewhere between hopeless and impossible regarding HD.

WPTV is still struggling with new tower construction red tape. They are shooting for September 2002.

The good news is that we're not missing much from NBC so far. There are rumblings about a significant increase in HD in prime time from them this Fall so WPTV's target, if met, might be timely indeed.

I live in Lake Worth area (hypoluxo and jog) and I would like to know
what type of indoor antenna is capable receive HD broadcast channels
for my dish 6000 OTA. I would also consider outdoor antenna in the worst
case!

Thanks in advance.

Srini

When I got rid of cable to install my satellite system, I put a TERK TV-50 antenna in the attic and attached it's output to the cable feeds, so I have OTA available in every room. The TV-50 is far from the best antenna, but works just fine to receive the West Palm locals and the WFLX digital stations. I'm unable to receive the Miami stations on it, that would require an external and fairly high antenna.

Roger

What HD channels are available in West Palm Beach area? At this point,
I would be greatful if I can receive one or two HD channels from OTA.

Thanks,
Srini

Originally posted by David McRoy
WPTV is still struggling with new tower construction red tape. They are shooting for September 2002.

The good news is that we're not missing much from NBC so far. There are rumblings about a significant increase in HD in prime time from them this Fall so WPTV's target, if met, might be timely indeed.

Dave,

Will the location of that tower be such that I can expect to receive a similar signal to the one I receive from WFLX down here? I'm concerned about being able to receive NBC if they do add programming in the fall. I am presently borrowing a unity motion box, which works well, but if I need to buy one of my own, I need to figure that out...

aviators,

Here is a link to the tower location at 26° 35' 20" N 80° 12' 43" W:

http://100kwatts.tmi.net/cgi-bin/tvtl.pl?calls=WPTV-DT&lat=26-35-20&lon=80-12-43&rad=0

WFLX-DT is either on or very near the same antenna farm.

Originally posted by lambu
What HD channels are available in West Palm Beach area? At this point,
I would be greatful if I can receive one or two HD channels from OTA.

Thanks,
Srini

Right now, I think just WFLX FOX, physical 28, remapped to 29.1. More are due on May 1st though, check out http://www.titantv.com for more info.

Roger

Originally posted by David McRoy
WPTV is still struggling with new tower construction red tape. They are shooting for September 2002.

The good news is that we're not missing much from NBC so far. There are rumblings about a significant increase in HD in prime time from them this Fall so WPTV's target, if met, might be timely indeed.

Thanks, Dave.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere in these pages that NBC would/might offer their new fall 2002 programs in HD. Maybe they will come up with something that will last more than two episodes.

Lambu,

Here's our current status for West Palm Beach stations:

WFLX-DT, Fox, channel 28 (remapped to 29-1) is on the air daily from noon to midnight.

WPBF-DT, ABC, channel 16 (remapped to 25-1) should be on the air on May 1.

WPEC-DT, CBS, channel 13 (remapped to 12-1) should be up in the latter half of May.

The only other station in West Palm whose status I am aware of is WPTV-DT, NBC, channel 55 (remapped to 5-1). They are still dealing with tower construction red tape and are shooting for September of this year.

Meanwhile, if you have a big, tall antenna with an antenna amplifier and live in extreme southern West Palm Beach, Wellington, Lake Worth or further south, you may be able to receive these DTV stations from Miami:

WPBT-DT, PBS, channel 18 (remapped to 2-1 [HD] and 2-3 [SD])

WFOR-DT, CBS, channel 22 (remapped to 4-1)

WSVN-DT, Fox, channel 8 (remapped to 7-1)

WPLG-DT, ABC, channel 9 (remapped to 10-1)

WBZL-DT, WB Network, channel 19 (remapped to 39-1)

If you live close to the antenna farm near the intersection of Lantana Road and Highway 441, you may have difficulty receiving the two VHF DTV stations from Miami on channels 8 and 9 due to signal overload to your receiver from WPTV's analog transmitter on channel 5. In an earlier post on this thread (on Page 5, dated 02-28-02) I described how to construct a filter/amplifier combination that may alleviate the problem. Or you could simply wait for the remaining West Palm Beach stations to get on the air. The majority will probably be up before the year is out.

One exception is WXEL-DT, PBS, which, as a non-commercial licensee, isn't required to be on the air until May 1, 2003. They are still conducting fundraising activities to finance their planned HDTV studio and transmitter facilities. They have raised several million dollars but they need a total of $7 million. With a few million to go, they could use your help, so write 'em a check!;)

David,
Thanks a lot for your eloborate reply. I am glad that we will be getting
more HD signals soon in our area. Could I able to receive these local (west palm beach) HD channels via indoor antenna? I already have two dishes
outside my house and I don't want to put up those huge array antennas!


Thanks,
Srini

Lambu,


Since you're located so close to the Lantana antenna farm, the stations there should be fine on an indoor antenna. The only ones that might be a problem without an outdoor antenna lie to the north/northwest in Martin County: WPBF and WTVX.

Fortunately, their DTV allocations are on UHF channels and UHF antennas are fairly compact compared with VHF and VHF/UHF combo antennas.

If you still have aesthetic issues with even a small outdoor UHF antenna you might explore mounting one in your attic. So long as you don't have a metal roof it would probably work fine in your location for West Palm Bach stations.

By all means, though, try an indoor antenna first. If you get a good analog signal from the stations without severe ghosting, the digital signal will probably be fine. (aside from low signal level, the other thing that will kill a DTV signal is dynamic multipath reception, which in analog looks like ghosting that changes and moves in the picture.)

To anyone out there with a Dish 6000. On my setup, when I do a scan, Channel 2 (remapped to 18) usually shows some subchannels. If I happen to select a subchannel with nothing on it, after a short delay, it sets itself to the subchannel that has information on it. However, afterward, it no longer shows up in my guide as Channel 2. It shows up as Channel 18. I have also noted the same thing recently with channel 7 (remapped to 8). Is there a problem with my receiver? or is this normal?

I live in Delray and have an outside RS antenna about 14 ft off the ground with a rotator. I have now found the rotator of tremendous help. If it were not for the rotator, I would have to compromise between Miami and WPB stations. A couple of weeks ago when we having bad electrical storms my reception of channel 10 was unwatchable. Just a couple of little tweaks with the rotator made the station at least watchable.
Thanks,
TonyV

Tony,

I have a Zenith HDTV with a built-in ATSC tuner and an RCA DTC100 STB with an ATSC tuner. They sometimes react differently from each other to the PSIP data that the stations are sending that instruct the receivers how to "remap" the channel identification.

I've seen the Zenith remap WSVN-DT (8-1) to 7-1 and sometimes to 8-1. The Zenith remaps WFLX-DT (28-1) to 28-2. The RCA DTC-100 correctly remaps it to 29-1. Go figure.

Tony,

My Dish 6000 remaps WPBT exactly as you have described. With their previous PSIP data, the Dish 6000 would lose both subchannels if you tuned to a channel that was not broadcasting a picture. It was a real pain in the neck because you had to reacquire their signal every time you tuned in.

The Dish 6000 was remapping WSVN to channel 7 as of yesterday. For the week or so prior to that I was receiving subchannels 8-01 and 8-02.

I forget about this thread.
I was on the So. Fla. thread and asked a question, that was answered here.
Thank you.
Now I have to read both threads to see what is going on.

Any news when WB-39 will be going HD?

Im in Port St Lucie..amy chance of getting WFLX from an attic antenna?? WPEC when it goes live??

Tonight, the conditions were so good that I was able to lock WFLX-DT 28 from my location in Melbourne about 120 miles north of the tower. The WFLX upconvert video actually looked better than WOFL-DT Fox Orlando or WTVT-DT Fox Tampa, and of course way better than WSVN-DT. I would rate WFLX-DT up their with WFTX-DT Fox Fort Myers. Unfortunately, I didn't lock WFLX's signal until 11:56 pm and then only got about 4 minutes to watch before they signed off for the day. Someday I would love to encounter the right conditions so I could run a comparison during primetime Fox programming between these stations.

satpro,

Great idea. WFLX's picture quality is top notch; and, I continue to ponder why viewers in other cities give FOX such low marks.

Not to be negative, but why is Fox using their widescreen system. It looks pretty good (saw parts of Dark Angel on WFLX last night), but it really doesn't hold a candle to the real HD transmitted by PBS, CBS and ABC.
The LasVegas street scenes on CSI look almost 3 dimensional they are so good.

Did WFLX just increase their power?? Last night I noticed that I could get a great signal from them with my antenna pointed toward Miami. Previously I have had to rotate my antenna for best results from them.

Tony

I am thankful what we can get.
Now that FOX widescreen is up and it looks pretty good (better than SD, but we all know way below Hi Def), this is a great accomplishment.

Keep in mind that NFL will look a whole lot better.

Originally posted by George33027
I am thankful what we can get.
Now that FOX widescreen is up and it looks pretty good (better than SD, but we all know way below Hi Def), this is a great accomplishment.

Keep in mind that NFL will look a whole lot better.

What makes you think that the NFL will be in widescreen?

Another great reception night for WFLX-DT. Tonight from Melbourne I am getting a 95 BER on my DTC 100. Fox primetime on WFLX-DT and WOFL-DT Orlando look identical both are 1080i. Fox Tampa looks not so good. They are doing something strange to chanfge the AR. Part of the 'X' in Fox is cut off on the right sidebar.

Tonight also seeing
WBZL-DT 64 %
WSVN-DT 64 %
WFOR-DT 46 % even though usually jammed by local WOFL-DT
WPBT-DT 18 jammed by local analog
WPLG-DT 09 jammed by local analog

aviators99
I ASSUMED
Which is based on heresay, not fact.
Anyway, some of the last games, I think, was in FOX widescreen, but 7-1 did not transmit in widescreeen.
So, I guessed that if the last games were in widescreen, that (again I am assuming that FOX has the NFL again this year) that it will be done this year.
Now, that I am thinking about it, you may be correct. Maybe only 1 or more big games will be.

But, the good news is that we (So. Fla.) can now get widescreen.

As others stated, not only is it in widescreen, but the picture looks better.

Originally posted by George33027
aviators99
I ASSUMED
Which is based on heresay, not fact.
Anyway, some of the last games, I think, was in FOX widescreen, but 7-1 did not transmit in widescreeen.
So, I guessed that if the last games were in widescreen, that (again I am assuming that FOX has the NFL again this year) that it will be done this year.
Now, that I am thinking about it, you may be correct. Maybe only 1 or more big games will be.

But, the good news is that we (So. Fla.) can now get widescreen.

As others stated, not only is it in widescreen, but the picture looks better.

Nope...only the Super Bowl was in widescreen.

I dont know if this has been discussed but is anyone having a prob with sides being cut off. My overscan is set to 4% and half of the FOX logo is cut off the side bars on 4x3 material.. Anyone else???

Originally posted by HTnut
I dont know if this has been discussed but is anyone having a prob with sides being cut off. My overscan is set to 4% and half of the FOX logo is cut off the side bars on 4x3 material.. Anyone else???

I think is a problem, bcus I have the same issue ..:D

Originally posted by hardrock
WFLX's picture quality is top notch; and, I continue to ponder why viewers in other cities give FOX such low marks.

Many Fox DTV affiliates are transmitting the Fox 480p signal in its native format, but some upconvert to 720p or 1080i using professional format converters whose performance is considerably better than what can currently be built into HDTV receivers at consumer price levels.

WFLX-DT uses the Divicom encoder:

http://www.harmonicinc.com/stageone/files/harmonic/products/MV400%5F032002%2Epdf


HDNut said:

"I dont know if this has been discussed but is anyone having a prob with sides being cut off. My overscan is set to 4% and half of the FOX logo is cut off the side bars on 4x3 material.. Anyone else???"

I calibrated my Zenith IQB64W10W HDTV for minimal overscan (a little as possible before horizontal and vertical blanking become visible under any conditions) and the logo doesn't get chopped off. It's possible that Fox is shoving it down and to the right more than they should be (though probably not far enough for my choosing!;)

Tony said:

"Did WFLX just increase their power?? Last night I noticed that I could get a great signal from them with my antenna pointed toward Miami. Previously I have had to rotate my antenna for best results from them. "

Your improved conditions may be temporary (but recurring) due to lower atmospheric inversions, wherein air particles which help conduct signals bunch-up densely at just the right altitude to help the signal get to your location. Similar situations can cause the signal to get worse, too.

Satpro's good reception from 120 miles away is more likely due to tropospheric ducting. Here is a good website that forecasts troposhpheric ducting conditions as they pertain to the VHF and UHF bands:

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html

If you look at the forecasts for the Florida peninsula for the next three days, including today, things will start to settle down a bit, meaning Satpro's signal levels from WFLX-DT may degrade a bit relative to his most recently posted results.

OK well i went ahead and adjusated my overscan a wee bit more. The lower right Fox bug is there in full..The FOX DIGITAL bug in the top left is way off to the left.. MIssing almost the whole FO and DI..Anyone else with this much croppage??

Dave-
You are right about one thing tonight reception from south florida stations is terrible. However, Tampa is usual and Jaxsonville all the way up into Georgia is coming in great. DT from Jacksonville is what I am watching tonight from 180 miles north of my location! Even seeing analog WXGA PBS 8 Waycross. Still waiting for Savannah 300 miles away to improve. Does anyone in South Florida ever try and get Orlando stations 150-200 miles north of Dade, Broward and Palm beach counties? I feel lucky being here in the middle of the state alot more stations to DX from here!

Satpro, what exactly are you using for your antenna?? That range is AWESOME!

RS VU 190 on rotor 35' above ground getting me to 70' above sea level.
50' RG 6 cable with no splits. I loss enough db s from grounding blocks and RF surge so I just use a quick connect plug on the RG 6. Usually just hooked to my DTC 100. I don't use amps because they amplify the jamming.
Also have UM 1000 tuner as a DT backup for satellite and terrestrial.

Usually I get check out the conditions using a Tosihba analog NTSC tuner. If the analog stations aren't showing at least grade B results then I don't even bother to try and get a lock on any DTs from that location. Also like to take a look at how some DTs jam some analog stations. From my location most nights there is something present on almost every frequency. I can't wait till 2006 when or if analog ceases to do some real DXing of DTs. Right now jamming from analog stations using the same frequencies is the biggest problem with DT dxing.

Originally posted by HTnut
OK well i went ahead and adjusated my overscan a wee bit more. The lower right Fox bug is there in full..The FOX DIGITAL bug in the top left is way off to the left.. MIssing almost the whole FO and DI..Anyone else with this much croppage??

Yes, I just saw WFLX-DT's new (and highly annoying) upper-left bug.
All I see on my carefully calibrated set is this:

OX29
F L X
igital

:rolleyes:

And they don't just use it during 4:3 programming, which would be agravating enough (WPLG-DT used to do this and finally stopped) it also covers-up the 16:9 Fox widescreen programming! It definitely has an adverse effect on my decisions on whether or not I want to watch a Fox show or some other channel without that garish bug. If this ends up driving viewers away then a fat lot of good it did them to put it up in the first place. There out to be a law...

Satpro,

I haven't tried DXing any Orlando DTVs from here yet. Tampa is out of the question for me, probably, due to a gigantic and highly-absoptive ficus tree due west of my antennas, just feet away.

Dave,
I bought an indoor antenna at radio shack and I was able to get
WFLX-DT's signal strength between 75 and 92 on dish 6000. Though Seinfield show looked a little blurry the other programs looked fine on
Panasonic RPTV. But I still get the chopped Fox logo on top left in 4:3
format.

Dave,

You should call their chief engineer and explain to him just how counterproductive their logo is (as well as their use of black sidebars instead of gray ones on 4:3 material). Maybe they'll listen to another professional.

Rudy

I watched 24 last night on WFLX and I got the same as you Dave.
The logo was in the exact position as you stated.
Could they be over scanning?

The picture as good, like a DVD.

Flipped to 7-1, and it is day and night over it.
The program has to be made for widescreen to be good.
Just like the Hi Def stuff.

They're violating the safe title area with the new upper-left bug. I expect they'll fix it. Just wish they'd tone it down, making it smaller and remove it alltogether during 16:9 widescreen programming.

OK..so its not me.. I feel better now. That bug is seriously bright too..Hope they get rid of it or i wont be watching for long.. I was however able to get the bug on the lower right into the screen area by reducing my overscan to about 3% or so

Hmmm. i dont see the bug tonight

Another question. I am now receiving WFLX at 100 strength and im just barely getting a signal on 22 and 18 from down south. The signal barely locks and reads anywhere from 3-10 on the meter. Would raising my antenna another 3-5ft make the difference i might need to get a lock on these far channles? Thats about all i have left that i can raise it. Its the Channel Master 3020. Thanx for any input. I just dont wanna go to the trouble of taking down the mast if its not gonna help at all..

Sorry for the off track post, hardware question:

I am seeing something strange with my setup. Every day or two, the "low" channels (2,3,4,5,6) of my Adelphia Cable start looking terrible. To fix it I just have to unplug the cable from the cable->VCR->HDTV stack and then reattach the cable, and all is fine.

Last night I pulled the cable->vcr at the bedroom vcr instead of the livingroom vcr (cable->vcr->HDTV) stack and it also did the job.

I noticed a very interesting thing last night. I had the set tuned to channel 5 which was showing FoxNews with a strong "Channel 5 analog OTA TV" ghost. After unscrewing the shield of the connector, and starting to pull the cable out of the vcr, the "Channel 5 TV" image became crystal clear. When I pulled the cable out the rest of the way, the set lost all signal. Reinserting the cable's center conductor only brought back the channel 5 analog OTA image very sharp. Reconnecting the cable shield brought back FoxNews without the ghosting.

There is one "bad practice" thing about my setup that I can identify immediately. I have an antenna mounted in the attic which has no grounding block in the signal path to the HDTV receiver. (The VHF-Low signal is routed to a "dummy-load/cable termination" but this filter is not grounded either - except by the shield connection to the HDTV receiver chassis. Perhaps that chassis is floating; I haven't checked that.)

I'm going to grab a grounding block tonight to see if that solves the problem. Any ideas of what to look for, in case it doesn't?

Alan

Originally posted by HTnut
Another question. ...signal barely locks...Would raising my antenna ... make the difference ...

My guess is that you need the "VHF-Lo" filter that Dave suggested for me. I was seeing marginal PBS reception when I had the antenna deep inside my house, that got worse when I moved the antenna higher - into the attic. Adding the 3-band-splitter->combiner (and VHF-Low terminated) did the trick and now all channels are great.

HTNut,

Do you have your antenna on a rotator so that you can change the direction of the antenna to receive stations optimally from all directions?

Re: antenna height, increasing the height and even elevating the front of the antenna by a few degrees relative to the rear will often help distant reception. But in some instances decreasing the antenna height by a foot of so can help reception on a particular channel due to certain conditions.

The high-band VHF/UHF pas filter that I recommended for Pogo will only improve reception on the high-band VHF DTV stations on 8 & 9 if you are getting interference from the WPTV analog signal on channel 5. It should not affect your UHF reception either way.

Pogo (Alan),

You should really make sure you antenna coax if grounded using a grounding terminal block. This can prevent static from developing on the antenna coax.

As far as the weird cable stuff, cable systems often have some low-frequency AC on them which can be attenuated with a high-pass filter like the one Radio Shack sells to eliminate CB interference into television. You might try one out. Since it contains a transformer, it mechanically decouples the cable system coax from your gear while still passing the signal inductively. This might possibly get around a ground loop situation if that's the culprit.

Another possibilty is that the cable system itself has a poor grounding system. That can cause system "leakage," which can result in the cable system signal "radiating" over-the-air into nearby antennas, as well as over-the-air broadcast signals getting into the cable system, interfering with cable signals. Cable systems are supposed to keep leakage to a certain legal maximum level to prevent this, so the problem may be on their end.

Originally posted by HTnut
Hmmm. i dont see the bug tonight

Word on the street is they pulled it by popular demand. They were getting quite a few complaints about it.

This may represent some kind of watershed event for DTV...when a station changes something about their DTV operation "due to popular demand." How many viewers could there be in a market whose only DTV station has only been on the air for two weeks?

Hi All!

I saw a mention in the Palm Beach Post online yesterday that FOX 29 will be testing digital broadcast next week.

I'm waiting on delivery of a Tosh DST 3000, and hope to have it in time to check out the test.

James from Stuart

They're already on the air with regular programming daily from noon to midnight (until there are more viewers.)

They upconvert their regular programming sources from 480i to 1080i. The really good news is that they take Fox's widescreen feed for prime time programming that's available in that format (which WSVN-DT in Miami doesn't.)

I'm picking up a sporadic signal from WPBF-DT Channel 16 (up to 59% - but no picture or sound). Can anyone closer to their antenna confirm this?

Same here from Melbourne I am also picking up a trace of WPBF-DT 16 but can't lock it right now because it is being jammed by a local analog translator. I am 75 miles from the WPBF transmitter.

I'm getting WPBF-DT (16) right now. No sound, but a few minutes ago they were sending color bars. Signal looked good (about 75% Dish 6000) with my antenna pointed toward Miami.
Tony

Searching now...nothing at the moment.

I just left voicemail with WPBF's C. E., Cliff Thomas, asking for a return call on when we might see them testing again.

They went off the air at about 1:30pm. I have been talking to Richard Monn at WESH another Hearst Argyle station here in Orlando. I reported to him that I had observed WPBF-DT had come on air today and was interfering with the W16AJ WESH analog translator also using channel 16 here in Melbourne. Hopefully, since all these problems involve Hearst Argyle stations they can come to some kind of compromise quickly. I would like to see W16AJ taken off or moved so I could receive WPBF-DT 16 but I am sure that is not what is going to happen. How the FCC can authorize two stations to be using the same frequency with overlapping contours is beyond me!

Satpro,

If you live in the Orlando/Daytona Beach ADI I think you're SOL. As long as that translator doesn't interfere with WPBF-DT within the West Palm Beach/Ft. Pierce/Boca Raton ADI it may well stay where it is. Finding an empty channel to move the NTSC translator to might not be hard but don't count on Hearst/Argyle going to the trouble and expense.

How's your reception for ABC DTV from Orlando?

ABCHD Orlando is good for me it is only 43 miles away.

WESH should do something because if they don't they will have no analog OTA veiwers in southern Brevard County.
I don't use the analog translator anyway I get the HD feed direct from Orlando. As far as changing frequency that would be almost out of the question. The only thing I can see them doing is physically changing where they broadcast from. One thing is for sure there is not much point in keeping W16AJ on the air once WPBF-DT is up to full power because it will totally obliterate the translators signal. This brings up another issue. WFLX has an analog translator in Vero using channel 50. Once WTVX DT 50 is up that TX will be obliterated as well and in that case it will be in the same DMA. Somebody better start planning for that case soon other wise nobody in Vero will be able to see WTVX-DT 50 because the WFLX translator will be jamming it out.

I will have to ask Richard Monn of WESH for more info tomorrow when the Central Florida HD society meets at the WESH-DT,WRBW-DT,WKMG-DT,etc,etc super tower in Bithlo.

Satpro,

The FCC website says that they applied to move the translator to 13. The bad news is that's our DTV assignment here at WPEC. :rolleyes:

But Cliff Thomas just told me he thinks Hearst/Argyle's plan is to just turn-off the translator. It's really primarily for getting the signal into cable head-ends in your area anyway so they might just give the head-ends DTV receivers so they can get the Orlando OTA DTV signal and downconvert it.

Cliff said he'd try to get the "official" plan from the company...and then get the "real" plan ;) and get back to me.

WPBF-DT will be testing again tomorrow on 16-1 and then start running some 4:3/480i programming upconverted to 720p for a while. He's waiting on the 5.1 audio gear (hopefully in tomorrow) and also waiting for HD pass-through gear. Ultimately they'll be passing ABC-HD in their native 720p format.

I will see what word is from this end at tomorrow's meeting of the minds and let you know. I sure hope they don't change the frequency or if they do they move it up were it belongs for the short term in the 60s. Another possibility is here in Melbourne there is a translator that has been broadcasting on channel 26 for 5 -10 years now and nothing is ever on it except a blue or black screen. WESH should take that frequency since it is just going to waste.

David, any word on WPEC? Still looking good for May or June??

My channel 29-01 on the Toshiba DST3000 is identical to the analog channel right now. Anyone else having this prob as of now? The banner says WFLXDT but it clearly looks to be analog. The meter for the channel 29-01 is at 100...What gives now..ughhh

Nobody?????

Originally posted by HTnut
My channel 29-01 on the Toshiba DST3000 is identical to the analog channel right now. Anyone else having this prob as of now? The banner says WFLXDT but it clearly looks to be analog. The meter for the channel 29-01 is at 100...What gives now..ughhh

Not here .. I watched Starwars Last night it look good not spectacular, But acceptable ...:) :) :)

Watched a little of "Empire Strikes Back" last night, comparing a "stretched to 16x9" pan&scan Adelphia cable of WFLX, with the WFLX-DT "letterboxed in 16x9" fullscreen and WSVN-DT pillar'd 4:3 pan&scan.

I preferred the letterbox'd full screen version from WFLX-DT. It seemed "DVD sharp" with good colors.

Alan

Apparently im having a new hardware problem then. My 29-1 is showing analog channel. Time to strat asking questions in the hardware forum i spose. It WAS working fine before and tuning the Dig channel..

HTNUT.
Ther was a upgrade this week for the DST 3000, after that upgrade I lost all my local's OTA I had to do a new scan and erase the the Zip code and add it again , check into that... Upgrade is 5099

WPBF Channel 16 back on with color bars and tone at about 3:30 pm
Tony

And commercials at 4 pm - the PSIP only shows 16/1 (no WPBF-DT)

WPBF-DT is on the air!

Getting a multiburst video test signal now in 16:9/720p. No audio. PSIP indicates "English" language.

Signal strength is near the top of the "Good" range on my Zenith tuner and a B. E. R. of 93 on the RCA DTC100. (Comparable here to WPBT-DT and WFOR-DT.)

See my Profile at the top of this post for antenna particulars.

Just got off the phone with Cliff Thomas, their C. E. He called to alert me that they were testing. He had his people put up upconverted programming. (He's aware that the audio balance isn't right...they're just testing now...still waiting to put the DD 5.1 gear in within a few weeks.)

Cliff says that he's very excited about DTV and thinks this will all move faster than many industry wags seem to think.

I refered him to AV Science Forum and I hope he'll join. He's one of the good guys, folks, so treat him nice!

My 16-1 is not remapping to 25..is this normal for the moment??

Its also windowboxed

Sorry for the reposts but is anyone getting a widescreen HD image from WPBF as of now? Are they just transmitting the analog feed over the dig channel or do i again have new hardware probs? LOL

HTnut,

As you indicated, WPBF is transmitting their analog feed over their unmapped digital channel.

Hey Guys,

I am in the Parkland area and I have a DTC-100 with a Color King 5886 in the attic. I mainly put it up there for FM and as an after thought I put a splitter on and ran one side to the DTC-100 and the other for FM. I have only only played with it a couple times but during the day not at night. Channel 12 is the only one that comes in good at least during the day. I forgot what it remapped to. My questions are as follows:

1. Is that splitter possibly causing any problems?

2. Is this antenna the right one to use? It was given to me so I have no ties to it :)

3. Should I pick up an amp from the shack and give that a try?

Thanks

Thanx Rock.. I feel better now. After my new probs with the Toshiba from the latest update i didnt know if it was me or not... much appreciated sir!

ECHOSLOB,

THe Color King 5886 should be fine. Just make sure it's aimed in the direction of the stations you are interested in. (The small end is the "front.")

www.antennaweb.org lets you put in your street address to get a map with radials showing the direction of any stations in your area.

Channel 12 is currently analog only. We should have WPEC-DT on the air on channel 13 sometime in the later half of the month. (Harris is supposed to be here in about two weeks to begin transmitter tests.) Your DTC100 should show the analog channel 12 as 12-0. Once WPEC-DT is up, tune in 13-1. It willl then remap to 12-1.

A correctly functioning splitter will only drop the signal level by 3 or 4 dB. That's usuallly not a big deal unless the signal is marginal to begin with. From Parkland you would probably have trouble with 25 (currently "16-1" until they get their PSIP data in order) but I would think that 28-1, remapped to 29-1, should be viewable. You might need a preamp for your antenna, though.

Sometimes attic installation isn't great for distant, weak signals, and all bets are off if you have a metal roof.

Thanks Dave. I have a tile roof and I am embarrassed to say after I posted I found the instruction sheet and of course the antenna is 180* off The big end is pointed towards Miami. LOL I will switch it around and give the AMP a shot. Thanks.

Here's the thread for the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale stations:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43823

My DST 3000 receiver arrived yesterday, up here in Stuart.

At first I only received WPBF as 16-1, then later in the evening I moved my antenna, and was able to pick up FOX on 29-1.

ABC had me bummed, the signal didn't look all that much better than cable, and it was definitely windowboxed. I couldn't get the TV to switch pic sizes (said - not available) and my DST 3000's three modes (Full, Cropped, windowboxed) didn't make any difference on the picture. Later in the evening, I moved the antenna and was able to pick up FOX. Low and behold, the Bernie Mack show came on, and presto - there was a show in full 16:9! I was jazzed! But, I have no clue what res it was in?

The feed that WFLX gets from Fox for its 16:9 widescreen shows, like Bernie Mac is in the 480/60p format. Like everything else, WFLX-DT upconverts this to 1080/60i for transmission over-the-air.

At this time all that WPBF-DT is doing is taking their analog 480/60i standard-definition signal from their master control switcher and upconverting it to 720/60p for air, which admitedly doesn't look very good. You can see lots of composite NTSC video artifacts in the picture.They will eventually start passing the ABC HDTV primetime programming in ABC's native 720/60p HD format along with ABC's DolbyDigital 5.1 audio. They just haven't received all of the equipment yet.

The vast majority of ATSC receivers only allow you to zoom, stretch or add gray side panels when receiving standard-definition 480/60i signals. Since these stations are upconverting everything to 1080/60i or 720/60p your receiver locks-out these features. As a workaround, when watching shows that are 4:3 standard-definition shows that are just being upconverted by the station, try feeding the 480i S-Video output of your ATSC DTV receiver into an S-Video input on you HD monitor. It may look a little worse or perhaps little different but at least you'll regain the ability to zoom, stretch or add gray side panels if that is important to you.

Thanks for the info David, and the validation of what my eyes were seeing.

One question: 480/60i? I understand the difference between 480p and 480i, but what's the 60?

Seperate note - for any other Treasure Coast viewers on the thread. I'm using a Toshiba DST 3000 and a Megwave (non-amplified) antenna. I'm receiving WPBF with a solid signal, and WFLX with a varying signal that looks to be about 70% of 100% at best. (Anyone think we should start a seperate Treasure coast thread?)