I'm trying to decide if I should place my Energy C-C100 center on the shelf below the TV or mount it above the TV. I'm afraid it will be too low if it's on the shelf.

Also, where should I put my rear speakers? This is the wall behind the couch. Should I put them on either side of the mirror? Thanks.

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4935/img2325om4.jpg

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/3175/img2326ev2.jpg

It looks like your TV is fairly low... so I would put the Center above the screen. Goal is to have it as close to "ear" height as possible. Putting it on that low shelf would be pretty low from the screen... and if you have an end table in front of the couch, or a dog that may walk/lay in front of the Center, that will just be annoying.

For the rears, just to make sure we are on the right page... you are truly meaning Rear Speakers for a 7.1 system, correct? If so, yes, on each side of the mirror (3 feet or so above ear height) would probably be good. If you are only running 5.1, and these are really your Surrounds, than I would suggest you mount them on the side walls facing the couch... again mounted ABOVE ear height.

Good luck!

I think I have the TV at a pretty good height right now. Other places I have asked online, people have said to put it below the TV as hearing voices come from the center channel coming down at you from above sounds awkward. I could also think about placing something under the front of the speaker to tilt it up more towards ear level. The couch is pretty low to the ground because it's a futon couch.

I'm talking about a 5.1 system for the rears. So those speakers don't go right behind you? There is no wall on the right side of the couch. There sort of is a little piece that juts out but it's probably about 8 feet from the side of the couch. That could work potentially. I hope I bought enough speaker cable to reach that far.

For the rears, just to make sure we are on the right page... you are truly meaning Rear Speakers for a 7.1 system, correct? If so, yes, on each side of the mirror (3 feet or so above ear height) would probably be good. If you are only running 5.1, and these are really your Surrounds, than I would suggest you mount them on the side walls facing the couch... again mounted ABOVE ear height.

With the sofa against the rear wall, the OP should stick with 5.1; 7.1 rear speakers would be above the listeners, not in back of them as they should be; were the sofa pulled out from the wall at least three feet, your placement would work. For 5.1 surround speakers, I agree with your placement advice.

Is there a max recommended distance for the speakers to be on the side walls?

Is there a max recommended distance for the speakers to be on the side walls?

Exact distance isn't so important (that's what the delay in the AVR is for); getting the angular postion right is key. See here (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html)for diagrams which you should try to emulate.

Exact distance is so important (that's what the delay in the AVR is for); getting the angular postion right is key. See here (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout2.html)for diagrams which you should try to emulate.

Did you mean to say isn't so important? I'm assuming the rears should be equidistant from the listener though.

Did you mean to say isn't so important? I'm assuming the rears should be equidistant from the listener though.

Yes, typing too quickly; I corrected it. And no, if room contraints dictate, your surrounds can be at different distances; it's not ideal, but it can work. What's more important is that they be in the same angular position (90-110 degrees from the listening position.) Different distances are usually dictated by an assymetrical room, however, and that, in and of itself, will compromise the sound.

Ok thanks. Any thoughts on the center channel? I'll do some measuring when I'm home to see what I have to work with.

Ok thanks. Any thoughts on the center channel? I'll do some measuring when I'm home to see what I have to work with.

I have my center channel mounted low, similar to how your potentially will be, and it is not a perceptual distraction. The human auditory system is far less sensitive to vertical imaging as it is for horizontal. That being said, tilting the speaker up, so it's aimed at the listening position, and not having objects, such as a coffee table, in the way are requirements to getting the best out of this configuration. Also make sure to pull the speaker forward so you don't get reflections/diffraction from the edge of the stand. If you do all this, I'm sure you'll be satisfied with placing it below the TV.

So I looked at the room some more and I might have a tough time putting my rear speakers somewhere. The extra refrigerator we have is sort of in the way, but we really don't have anywhere else to put it. You can also see on the right side that there isn't much room. That little bit of wall that sticks out could potentially be used.

Any ideas? Might I have to get speaker stands? If so, are there certain ones I would have to get for my Energy C-100s? When you say they should be above ear level, wouldn't speaker stands put them right at ear level? If I do mount them on the wall, is that fairly simple? Thanks.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2891/img2327yp2.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8505/img2328cf5.jpg

My other questions still hold, but I was looking at speaker stands online out of curiosity. Are the speakers actually mounted in place on the stands or do they simply sit on top of them like they would on a shelf?

The extra refrigerator we have is sort of in the way.

That little bit of wall that sticks out could potentially be used.

Any ideas?

On top/above the fridge would be fine for the right surround; surround speakers are optimal above ear level (for movies/games). Surrounds placed on stands at ear level would only be preferred for multi-channel music, IMHO. The little perpendicular section of wall, above the thermostat, would be acceptable for the left surround. It's not ideal, but probably the best you can do with the constraints you have. Don't sweat it, if you properly calibrate all speakers for distance and SPL, it should be fine. The front left and right should be at ear level, however.

If I do mount them on the wall, is that fairly simple?

It depends on the speaker; surround specific speakers generally include mounts to easily hang them with something like a dry wall anchor. Are you using the C-100 bookshlefs for surrounds or your left/right pair? Energry says "Mount the C-100 anywhere—it looks great on shelves, stands or wall mounted." however, these are rear ported, which is generally not a great idea to block the port. If you cross them over well above the port tuning frequency, however, you can get away with it. The matching surround specific C-R100 speaker is sealed and includes mounting hardware; these would be cake to wall mount. If you let me know exactly which speakers you're planning to put where, I'll try to give you a more specific recommendation.

My other questions still hold, but I was looking at speaker stands online out of curiosity. Are the speakers actually mounted in place on the stands or do they simply sit on top of them like they would on a shelf?

Most speakers simply rest on top of the stands; this can be a problem with children, pets... For security, I would recommend double-sided tape or seismic putty at the least; If you're comfortable with it, wood screws :eek:. My speaker stands bolt directly to the speakers:

http://www.paradigm.com/images/reference/speaker_type_2/series_13/model_27/studio40_2_off.jpg

but that's because they're designed to go together.

Yea it's the C-100 bookshelfs as my rears. I'm getting the C-500s for the fronts. I don't know what crossing them over over the port tuning frequency means.

Thanks for all the help. I clearly need it.

Yea it's the C-100 bookshelfs as my rears. I'm getting the C-500s for the fronts.

OK, with floorstanders in front, stands/mounting is not a concern; just make sure to spread them out far enough apart, immediately flanking the TV is too close and limits the stereo seperation. As previously mentioned, I think the center will be fine below the TV.

I don't know what crossing them over over the port tuning frequency means.

Bass-reflex, or ported, speakers have a hole with a tube (port) to extend the bass response/increase sensitivity as compared to an acoustic suspension, or sealed, speaker design (note the port on the front of my speaker above). The air in the port resonantes at a particular frequency near the lower limit of the speaker's frequency response, this is referred to the port's 'tune'. The port on the C-100s is on the back and wall-mounted them will block it, which can negatively effect the sound. However, if your bass management in the receiver is set up to re-direct bass frequencies around the tune of the speaker to the subwoofer instead, the port can be blocked without significant effects to the speaker's performance.

Since the C-100 has a lower frequency response of 55Hz, if you set up the bass management to cross them over at 100Hz or above, then blocking the port should not be a big problem as the air in the port won't really be doing anything. Once you get things set-up, you can experiment with different cross-over settings and noticing how much air movement is produced by the port if you want to really 'dial it in'.

You'll still get some boundary effects from wall mounting (a mid-bass hump) but this is unavoidable. Some purists may disagree, but since these are 'only' surrounds and you have placement constraints, I think it's your best compromise. Trying to run them full-range, however, will result in frequency response and port noise from the restriced airflow so make sure to get the bass management set properly.

What receiver and sub will you be using? That will effect set-up as well.

Thanks for all the help. I clearly need it.

No problem, we were all there at one time!

I'm getting the Pioneer 1018 http://www.pioneerusa.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/PioneerReceivers/ci.VSX-1018AH-K.Kuro

For a sub I'm getting the BIC H-100 (VK-12, the new one) http://cgi.ebay.com/BIC-Acoustech-H-100-NEW-MODEL-IS-HERE-VK-12-1000-WATTS_W0QQitemZ370101039976QQcmdZViewItem

When you mention dialing it in. Will I be spending some time configuring the frequencies and such before I find a placement of the speakers?

For the fronts, I planned on moving the shelf of movies over to the left some more. I don't have much room on the right though. I can't shift everything to the left as there is a kitchen table right there. I'll just have to mess with it.

I'm getting the Pioneer 1018 http://www.pioneerusa.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/PioneerReceivers/ci.VSX-1018AH-K.Kuro

For a sub I'm getting the BIC H-100 (VK-12, the new one) http://cgi.ebay.com/BIC-Acoustech-H-100-NEW-MODEL-IS-HERE-VK-12-1000-WATTS_W0QQitemZ370101039976QQcmdZViewItem

When you mention dialing it in. Will I be spending some time configuring the frequencies and such before I find a placement of the speakers?



Unfortunately, it looks like the Pioneer has a single cross-over setting, which means that all speakers will be crossed-over at the same frequency. Some other receivers let you set the surround's x-over seperately from the left/right and center. Given your set-up this would be a good feature to have since ideally you want to set the surrounds at 100-120Hz and the fronts to 80Hz or so. In any case, you'll want to set all speakers to small, even the towers and you'll have to find the best compromise for a single cross-over frequency. The cross-over on the sub should be turned all the way up, since bass is getting managed in the AVR.

For the fronts, I planned on moving the shelf of movies over to the left some more. I don't have much room on the right though. I can't shift everything to the left as there is a kitchen table right there. I'll just have to mess with it.

Try to position all speakers as close to the ideal location in the Dolby diagram I linked to before, and make sure the distance and levels are calibrated. Once it's all set-up it should be a nice system...

I could also try and fit the speaker on top of that weird shelf thing under the clock. I can just take that big wine bottle off and have my roommate put it somewhere else. That way the back of the speaker wouldn't be blocked and I could adjust the angle of it.

I'll have to figure out how to adjust all the frequencies and cross-overs when I get everything setup. I'm assuming it's just something in the menu I need to change.

I could also try and fit the speaker on top of that weird shelf thing under the clock. I can just take that big wine bottle off and have my roommate put it somewhere else. That way the back of the speaker wouldn't be blocked and I could adjust the angle of it.


Yeah, that would work well, and let you move the cross-over down below 100Hz for the surrounds. Any story behind that big empty bottle of Chianti?:p


I'll have to figure out how to adjust all the frequencies and cross-overs when I get everything setup. I'm assuming it's just something in the menu I need to change.

Yes, it's all in the receiver set-up. Once you get all the speakers hooked up, you'll want to read the receiver manual, the faq if it has a dedicated thread here, as well as look at these (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10118822#post10118822)links.

I doubt there is a story since it's my roommate's and he doesn't really drink. The bottle looks really cheesy to me with that straw wrap thing around it. He said it was something like $200 and he took it from the dinner he was at after it was gone. It must be pretty well known though if you can recognize it from the picture.

Hopefully the receiver gets left at my leasing office tomorrow. I'll have a lot to do tomorrow night and Saturday morning once I get it all. I have plans to watch the Hulk with some people Saturday night.

I doubt there is a story since it's my roommate's and he doesn't really drink. The bottle looks really cheesy to me with that straw wrap thing around it. He said it was something like $200 and he took it from the dinner he was at after it was gone. It must be pretty well known though if you can recognize it from the picture.


I can't tell what winery it is, but Chianti is a popular style of Italian red wine which is traditionally bottled like that. A lot of family-style Italian restaurants have those bottles hung from the ceiling, so perhaps that's where he got the idea to display it. Some Chianti Reservas can get pricey, but it's usually in a high shouldered Bordeaux style bottle; generally, only the cheap stuff is wrapped in straw. I think a surround speaker is more appropriate in that location, though... In case you can't tell, in addition to being an audiophile, and also an oenophile. Why can't I find a cheap hobby?

Hopefully the receiver gets left at my leasing office tomorrow. I'll have a lot to do tomorrow night and Saturday morning once I get it all. I have plans to watch the Hulk with some people Saturday night.

Sounds like a good plan, make sure not to rush getting the speakers wired up, a short can damage the receiver, and make sure to get the bass management right, so not to over-drive a new speaker. Good luck getting it all set-up and have fun.

Well I don't like UPS.

On Tuesday they came to deliver something, but never came up to my apartment at 8:45 at night to drop it off and I ended up getting it on Thursday. It wasn't really a big deal.

The first tower speaker they delivered was damaged in shipping. Luckily it was only removable base stand so I'm going to be sent a replacement part by the shipper.

Yesterday I was waiting on just my receiver. At 6pm I found out they misrouted the package and it was on a random truck driving around. They said I could come try to pick it up at 9pm will call, but after waiting in line there they told me it's on a truck waiting to go out on Monday and there was nothing they could do.

Waste of a weekend.

Most speakers simply rest on top of the stands; this can be a problem with children, pets... For security, I would recommend double-sided tape or seismic putty at the least; If you're comfortable with it, wood screws :eek:. My speaker stands bolt directly to the speakers:

http://www.paradigm.com/images/reference/speaker_type_2/series_13/model_27/studio40_2_off.jpg

but that's because they're designed to go together.

Does anyone know what kind of speaker stand that is? I really like it but cant find anything like it anywhere. Thanks

Does anyone know what kind of speaker stand that is? I really like it but cant find anything like it anywhere. Thanks

It's a Paradigm J-23 stand which is designed to bolt to Paradigm's Studio and Signature series bookshelf speakers. They're nice, but very pricey (about $3-400/pair MSRP, I believe). I got mine along with with my Paradigms when a local dealer closed up shop and liquidated inventory, so I didn't pay nearly that much. For alternatives, check out racksandstands.com; lots of options here (http://www.racksandstands.com/Speaker-Stands-C7.html?refid=G87.cd%20storage) for less money. They have a large selection and great prices. I've ordered from them before and highly recommend them.