Hello everyone. I've already started piecing together my new HT system which is supposed to be a Christmas present, but I can't wait that long :cool:.

The equipment I'm getting is an Onkyo SR606 Receiver, Energy C-100's for the corners, Energy C-C100 for the center, and one of the new Premier Acoustic PA-120 subs is on it's way to my house now.

This is going into a 10x11 room (I know it's overkill in this room, but I'm moving out in a year to where I'll have a 14x18 room for my HT needs. I quickly threw together a diagram of the layout of the room. Sizes of the objects are not listed, but are for the most part proportionally correct in a top down view of the room.

The speaker placements are pretty much final. They're the only places to put them. The fronts are going to be wall-mounted above the door's movement paths (only choice really, but I know they're not ideal). The rears are going to be on stands at ear level. I'm just not sure on where to place the sub. My first intentions were to place it to the left of the couch, as there is enough room to place the sub there while avoiding the speaker stand. In order for me to do this I would need to buy a longer subwoofer cable, as running it along the ceiling would go past the 25 feet of the cable I currently have. All-in-all I could care less about buying a new cable, they're dirt cheap anyways. I just wasn't sure if placement near the front stage would be preferable. Possibly moving the shelf farther down along the wall closer to the couch, so the sub would be closer to the front stage. The door pathways kill my setup, so I'm trying to make do.

So whad'ya say boys (and ladies)? Sub near the couch? Sub near the window so it's closer to the front stage and not as overwhelming? Any other location you can see that would be better?

Here is the picture of the room.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2hn5bi8.jpg

As the side wall is really your only choice, move the shelf so you can place the sub at the mid-point of the wall.

As the side wall is really your only choice, move the shelf so you can place the sub at the mid-point of the wall.

Figured it would have to be that way. Would being that close to a window kill resonance of the bass? I'm not too knowledgeable regarding subs and sub placement, so I wouldn't want to sacrifice any performance. I'm sure the sub will be able to put out plenty of power to fill the room regardless of placement, I just want to make sure there would be no ill effects from being close to a window.

Window won't hurt it.
Mid-points of walls, especially with multiple subs, is one of the preferred locations for subs.

Here is some info on subs.
http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/multsubs.pdf

Great! Thanks for the information.

Will,you can try putting your sub woofer next to the couch on the back wall area. that's were i have mine and the bass fills up the hole room. doesn't hurt to try unless you don't have any room back there.:)

No chance of placing the sub in a corner?

Check out this link on subwoofer placement: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/subwoofer-placement-guidelines

No chance of placing the sub in a corner?

Check out this link on subwoofer placement: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/speaker-setup-guidelines/subwoofer-placement-guidelines

The front 2 corners are out of the question because of the doors. The only place near a corner I would be able to put the sub is directly against the left side of the couch, and it SHOULD fit while avoiding the base of the speaker stand for that corner, but no guarantees. Once I get the new couch in here this weekend I'll be able to tell for sure if it can fit back there, if not then I'll place it near the window.

Mid point in a wall is almost always the worst place to position a subwoofer.

This almost always assures cancellation of an important fundamental tone, based simply on the Left-Right dimension of the room. Odd divisions are usually better, but typically if you predict in-advance where the subwoofer should be positioned, it will be the wrong place.

Measure the room with test tones and a 12 dB/octave (or finer resolution) analyzer (or an analog Radio Shack SPL meter and multiple test tones), from every possible subwoofer location (and impossible ones, just so you will know).

A corner can excite the greatest number of room modes, with three reflecting surfaces and their associated gain. This might or might get you the flattest response, but it often works.

Mid point in a wall is almost always the worst place to position a subwoofer.

This almost always assures cancellation of an important fundamental tone, based simply on the Left-Right dimension of the room. Odd divisions are usually better, but typically if you predict in-advance where the subwoofer should be positioned, it will be the wrong place.

Measure the room with test tones and a 12 dB/octave (or finer resolution) analyzer (or an analog Radio Shack SPL meter and multiple test tones), from every possible subwoofer location (and impossible ones, just so you will know).

A corner can excite the greatest number of room modes, with three reflecting surfaces and their associated gain. This might or might get you the flattest response, but it often works.

You should live up to your screen name and do some serious reading. Starting with the link I provided in post #4.

Harman did serious subwoofer testing and the 4 mid-points of the walls was the best location, providing an even bass response throughout the entire seating area. I know this for a fact, as I have two subs at the mid-points of the side walls, in addition to the main subs at the main L/R locations. I know others who have placed subs at all 4 mid-point locations with very good results.

The corners can also be used, but can provide a boomier bass response.

If a person has complete flexibility in setting up a room, putting the sub at the main seat location and run pink noise, while going around the room with a SPL meter to find the best location is great. But, when a person is very limited in the sub placement, one has to go with what ones got.

You should live up to your screen name and do some serious reading. Starting with the link I provided in post #4.

Harman did serious subwoofer testing and the 4 mid-points of the walls was the best location, providing an even bass response throughout the entire seating area. I know this for a fact, as I have two subs at the mid-points of the side walls, in addition to the main subs at the main L/R locations. I know others who have placed subs at all 4 mid-point locations with very good results.

The corners can also be used, but can provide a boomier bass response.

If a person has complete flexibility in setting up a room, putting the sub at the main seat location and run pink noise, while going around the room with a SPL meter to find the best location is great. But, when a person is very limited in the sub placement, one has to go with what ones got.

I respectfully disagree with some of the aging, self-serving, and inconclusive conclusions in that Harman paper. You can't change the laws of physics - mid-point placement has to result in cancellation or reinforcement of at least one important fundamental tone.

Also, the reciprocity method sometimes works well, but this is in a minority of cases, maybe only a quarter of the time.

As with the OP's room and yours, every situation is different and the room will dictate subwoofer placement if flat response is desired. I'm glad you found yours, and I hope, within his limitations, the OP finds his. Experimentation, not prediction, is the key.

The Harman paper is primarily relevant to rectangular, acoustically symmetric rooms, since doors and windows complicate things.

Midpoint on a wall is not almost always the worst place to place a subwoofer. Frankly, I don't understand what "mid-point placement has to result in cancellation or reinforcement of at least one important fundamental tone" means. Corner placement will result in excitation of all room modes. Midwall placement will not excite odd-order modes for that particular boundary but will result in excitation of the other axial modes. Whether the listener perceives cancellation or reinforcement at certain frequencies due to a mode depends on where the listening position happens to be.

Self serving? It makes no difference to Harman, or any other manufacturer where you, I or anyone else locates their sub(s). And its very true all rooms will interact with the speakers differently.
If you're concluding that the testing was only to help sell more subs, it would make no difference in how many subs a person bought, if the results placed the subs at 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2 points along the walls.

But there are things people can do, for at least starters, to find the best locations, not only for the subs but also the main L/R speakers. And then tweek as needed.
As opposed to just dropping the speakers anywhere and expecting good results.

Of coarse, with less than ideal room or enough available space within the room will be harder to get a satisfactory result.

Besides the Harman White Papers, I've saved a number of other setup solutions I've come across. And as its turned out, for my room, I can say I've used parts of each to find my best total speaker setup. Although in at least two cases, I read about those setup theorys after the fact. And checking the distances to the speakers, I found the theorys did match my setup.

The Harman paper is primarily relevant to rectangular, acoustically symmetric rooms, since doors and windows complicate things.

Midpoint on a wall is not almost always the worst place to place a subwoofer. Frankly, I don't understand what "mid-point placement has to result in cancellation or reinforcement of at least one important fundamental tone" means. Corner placement will result in excitation of all room modes. Midwall placement will not excite odd-order modes for that particular boundary but will result in excitation of the other axial modes. Whether the listener perceives cancellation or reinforcement at certain frequencies due to a mode depends on where the listening position happens to be.

A symmetrical room is always best, which my room is, with the exception of two windows, separated by a 4x6 post on the right wall. I even have double doors opposite each other in the side walls at the back corners. And a pocket door archway centered on the rear wall.

But the idea of mulitple subs at the mid-points is to even out the bass response throughout the entire seating area, not just one seat. If there is only one sub and even if its in the corner there will be nulls at certain locations.

The subs I have at the sidewall midpoints are the secondary subs, used to even out the bass response. My main subs are colocated with the main L/R speakers and those speakers are setup symmetrically across the end of the room and about 54" out from the wall. That combo produces fantastic bass and soundstage.

That room is a huge improvement to the LR I had 30 years ago, which produced bad standing waves, cancelling the bass from very good producing full range speakers.
I bought a sub/sat system, putting the sub in the front corner to get bass, though not as good as what I have now.

I'm not against multiple subs at all. However, the Harman paper will not apply to L-shaped rooms. Doors or windows may shift the nodes of first-order modes so that it's not in the midpoint of a wall. If one wall abuts an exterior masonry wall and the opposite wall is an interior wall, then the node for the first-order mode will shift towards the interior wall. That's all I was getting at with my sentence. Even with two subwoofers, there will still be nulls, but careful placement is likely to result in smoother bass across a larger listening area, just as you noted.

The main thing is even with an L shped room, if the front end of the room, where the spoundstage is, can be laid out symmetrically across its width, with the other leg of the L in the back of a room will give good results.
That is how my room was when I first built it. 20 ft from the soundstage to the inside apex of the L, with the room becoming 4 ft wider at that point. The overall length is 32 ft.

But when I decided to go to 7 channel I needed a wall for the rear speakers.
So at the apex I added a pocket wall across the 17.5 ft width of the long side of the L.
To keep the open architecture of the room, I built an 8'-8" x 7'-0" elliptical archway centered on the 17.5 ft. Installed barn door track and built two 4'-5" doors with ball bearing rollers.

Most of the time those doors are in the open position and the bass and overall sound in that room is nothing short of super.