King Kong coming from Uni...with extended cut [Text View]

Bob Black

11-11-08, 12:44 PM

http://www.thehdroom.com/news/King_Kong_Climbing_onto_Blu-ray_in_January/3762

Universal Studios Home Entertainment has announced Peter Jackson's remake of King Kong is coming to Blu-ray Disc on January 20.

King Kong became a poster child for HD DVDs campaign when it was packaged with Microsoft's HD DVD add-on drive for Xbox 360.

On Blu-ray, King Kong will receive a few upgrades starting with 5.1 DTS-HD Master replacing 5.1 Dolby Digital Plus. Video will be framed at 2.35:1 in 1080p and likely will be an identical transfer as seen on HD DVD, at least for the theatrical cut.

The Blu-ray version of King Kong will not only include the theatrical cut but also the extended edition which was not on HD DVD. Supplemental features will be broken between the two version as follows.

Original Version
U Control: The Art Galleries
My Scenes
BD Live Features: My Scenes Sharing
Extended Version
Control: Picture in Picture
U Control: The Art Galleries
My Scenes
BD Live Features: My Scenes Sharing
Feature Commentary with Writer / Director Peter Jackson and with Co-Writer / Producer Philipa Boyen
King Kong on Blu-ray will retail for $29.98. Check back regularly for high resolution cover art and Amazon.com pre-order information.

giantchicken

11-11-08, 12:48 PM

Awesome!!!

RDarrylR

11-11-08, 12:52 PM

Excellent news!!

It will be nice for me to finally pick this up in high-def.

DavidHir

11-11-08, 12:53 PM

I'm really looking forward to this. The HD DVD was incredibly stunning in a number of scenes - there better be no DNR on the BD!!!

tkbryant

11-11-08, 12:57 PM

Universal comes through again by upping the goods with the extended cut being included. One of the best looking discs in HD finally gets the treatment it deserves!

tripleM

11-11-08, 01:02 PM

That movie was long enough..too long.
Don't see how an extension would make it better unless they rearranged it. eeeash...
Length != better (that's what she said!)

ps - the extras shows the CGI of Kong with the actor playing him...kinda killed the illusion for me.

Morpheo

11-11-08, 01:03 PM

wow that's great news. Now Universal, let's work on that Bourne trilogy...:)

giantchicken

11-11-08, 01:08 PM

After this, Bourne and Children of Men will be about the last of my HD DVD replacements.

davcole

11-11-08, 01:15 PM

I'm glad to see this one coming out with both versions. That means Universal is 2 for 2 offering both versions with KK and American Gangster.

Vader424242

11-11-08, 01:15 PM

Kewl!

DigitalfreakNYC

11-11-08, 01:19 PM

Sad. Without all the extras that made the DVD releases so great. Universal gets props for including the extended cut but overall, dropped the ball.

This reeks of a double-dip.

briankmonkey

11-11-08, 01:21 PM

After this, Bourne and Children of Men will be about the last of my HD DVD replacements.

Exactly, give me the Bourne Trilogy as well as Chronicles of Riddick/Pitch Black and my HD DVD player is retired.. Granted I haven't fired it up in probably at least 6 months for an HD DVD but I'm not departing until those hit.

ambientcafe

11-11-08, 01:24 PM

Will be double-dipping for the extended cut and upgraded audio....KK remains my HDDVD demo disc of choice. Will also be nice to watch the extended version w/o having to change discs midway thru, as on the SD version.

maingon

11-11-08, 01:36 PM

gonna have to get this, the HD-DVD looked amazing. I cant believe how many copies of this movie I have bought

I bought the making of King Kong set that was released at Best Buy, I bought the 2 disc set that orginally came out, i bought the HD-DVD and then I bought the Extended Cut of the movie, now i am gonna be getting the bluray version.

Schils

11-11-08, 01:43 PM

That movie was long enough..too long.
Don't see how an extension would make it better unless they rearranged it. eeeash...
Length != better (that's what she said!)

We're prolly in the minority but I'm with ya, this one could be so much meaner if only it were leaner, a DC would be awesome...trim out some of the weaker CGI moments for starters :::cough cough bronto stampede cough:::, cut some other unnecessary fat, etc, and this would be one badass movie!! Don't get me wrong, I like the TC, will buy it day one - just that I've never seen the extended cut, I'm betting there's some good stuff there that could be injected into a sweet, sweet DC, but again, only if some of the bloat was removed to keep the entire flick around 2:30 or so. Man, if only...theres enough material ya know, a GREAT movie is hiding in there somewhere! =)

Anyway, still good news, fun flick with great sights and sounds. :)

giantchicken

11-11-08, 04:30 PM

Here's what will be missing on the Blu-ray (from the extended DVD release):

-3 hour "making of" documentary
-38 minutes of deleted scenes (46 with PJ's introductions)
-19 minute blooper/gag reel
-12 minute vaudeville featurette
-10 minute featurette on tributes to the '33 Kong in PJ's version
-10 minute "missing" production diaries
-30 minutes of pre-viz animatics
-10 minute "Birthday Present" short made by the crew for PJ
-3 theatrical trailers

The audio commentary and art galleries will be included, which at least makes it better than the HD DVD release. It will also be the first release to offer both versions of the film--and on one disc as well.

So I will be picking this up, but not getting rid of the DVD version and its hours of special features.

eweiss

11-11-08, 04:40 PM

The remake was a great idea with awesome special effects (well, some of them; the dinosaur stampede was awful) ... and it was ruined by Jack Black. Even the best editing can't fix his miscasting and horrible (re)interpretation of Carl Denham.

I have the extended cut on DVD and like the extra scenes, but will Netflix the Blu-Ray if I want to see it in hi-def; I can't see purchasing it.

FWIW, watching the special features and seeing how much of a movie is fake and green screen tends to make me like a movie less. E.g., when I saw how they did the island and plane crash in CAST AWAY, the movie lost something for me.

Which is I guess why I enjoyed HIGH SCHOOL MUSICAL 3 - i.e., REAL PEOPLE doing REAL AND AWESOME CHOREOGRAPHED DANCE NUMBERS without wires and stand-in-for-humans CGI (or at least I assume so).

Bing

11-11-08, 04:47 PM

meh

d3code

11-11-08, 05:17 PM

awesome. the reason why i wanted bluray to win. lossless audio + 4 hour video is possible on bluray. and in no way possible on HDDVD.

i only was hoping they added another disc with the extras. oh well. fingers crossed for great quality video and sound :)

lordcloud

11-11-08, 05:23 PM

We're prolly in the minority but I'm with ya, this one could be so much meaner if only it were leaner, a DC would be awesome...trim out some of the weaker CGI moments for starters :::cough cough bronto stampede cough:::, cut some other unnecessary fat, etc, and this would be one badass movie!! Don't get me wrong, I like the TC, will buy it day one - just that I've never seen the extended cut, I'm betting there's some good stuff there that could be injected into a sweet, sweet DC, but again, only if some of the bloat was removed to keep the entire flick around 2:30 or so. Man, if only...theres enough material ya know, a GREAT movie is hiding in there somewhere! =)

Anyway, still good news, fun flick with great sights and sounds. :)

Agree completely. Too much CGI and too long, but in there is a great movie.

Franin

11-11-08, 05:59 PM

im definitley buying this one again.

adpayne

11-11-08, 06:20 PM

Also, watching the special features and seeing how much of the movie is fake tends to make me like movies less. E.g., when I saw how the did the island and plane crash in CAST AWAY, the movie lost something for me.

If you couldn't tell it was CGI while watching the movie, why should it bother you? Do you know how much it would cost to build live action full sized sets for a movie set on an island, and 1930's New York city?

Maybe you shouldn't watch "making-of" featurettes? :)

Art

shadowrage

11-11-08, 06:32 PM

Here's what will be missing on the Blu-ray (from the extended DVD release):

-3 hour "making of" documentary
-38 minutes of deleted scenes (46 with PJ's introductions)
-19 minute blooper/gag reel
-12 minute vaudeville featurette
-10 minute featurette on tributes to the '33 Kong in PJ's version
-10 minute "missing" production diaries
-30 minutes of pre-viz animatics
-10 minute "Birthday Present" short made by the crew for PJ
-3 theatrical trailers

WTF is the deal with Warner and Uni not wanting to release multi BD sets?:confused: They even put the HB2 making of doc on a DVD - warner style.
And on top of that they count the freaking Digital Copy as disc 2 of a 2 disc set? - It's not!

Morpheo

11-11-08, 06:32 PM

trim out some of the weaker CGI moments for starters :::cough cough bronto stampede cough:::,

:)
It was quite surprising actually, when you think of the LOTR CGI quality... Oh and cutting unnecessary CGI could be compensated by adding more Naomi Watts btw:p;)

DigitalfreakNYC

11-11-08, 06:39 PM

I'm glad to see this one coming out with both versions. That means Universal is 2 for 2 offering both versions with KK and American Gangster.

Too bad they didn't release die hard 4. :)

Deviation

11-11-08, 06:48 PM

Too bad they didn't release die hard 4. :)
Live Free or Die Hard was supposedly a mistake. Too bad they've not corrected it. I still haven't purchased that movie and I won't until it's uncensored on Blu-ray.

ickzer1

11-11-08, 07:08 PM

I'm all over this release. I love megaprimatus kong.

AmishFury

11-11-08, 07:12 PM

extended cut

because the theatrical cut isn't too long enough

DigitalfreakNYC

11-11-08, 07:24 PM

Live Free or Die Hard was supposedly a mistake. Too bad they've not corrected it. I still haven't purchased that movie and I won't until it's uncensored on Blu-ray.

a mistake??? :confused:

jrcorwin

11-11-08, 07:41 PM

Sad. Without all the extras that made the DVD releases so great. Universal gets props for including the extended cut but overall, dropped the ball.

This reeks of a double-dip.
It's sad? Why? ...because it is lacking certain extra features? Since when do extra features trump the film itself?

bassmonkeee

11-11-08, 07:41 PM

FWIW, watching the special features and seeing how much of a movie is fake and green screen tends to make me like a movie less. E.g., when I saw how they did the island and plane crash in CAST AWAY, the movie lost something for me.

Sooooo, maybe you should stop watching the extras?

jrcorwin

11-11-08, 07:44 PM

Sooooo, maybe you should stop watching the extras?
I'm starting to get the impression that many are buying BD's strictly for the extras and couldn't care less about the film.

Johnsteph10

11-11-08, 08:24 PM

I'm starting to get the impression that many are buying BD's strictly for the extras and couldn't care less about the film.

The point of next generation discs isn't just about Video/Audio quality. It is also about extras, interactivity, etc.

King_David

11-11-08, 08:29 PM

Awesome!!!

In one word.....

SOLD! :D

Toe

11-11-08, 08:35 PM

Day 1 purchase for me to replace my HD-DVD which I still hold as one of the best PQ/AQ discs on either format. Love the movie, love the DD+, and love the PQ. This BR with DTS-MA and extended cut is a must own for me as it can only improve an allready ref presentation. Cant wait!:)

Hughmc

11-11-08, 08:39 PM

The point of next generation discs isn't just about Video/Audio quality. It is also about extras, interactivity, etc.

I am fairly sure I have seen your name in other threads and that you are joking here, but hard to tell with no smilies. :D

darkedgex

11-11-08, 08:41 PM

The point of next generation discs isn't just about Video/Audio quality. It is also about extras, interactivity, etc.
Not too derail this too much, but I strongly disagree. As far as I'm concerned the extras should go entirely on a second disc or not be included at all. Once studios start doing extras as 720p or 1080p on a regular basis you'll start to see the main feature suffer in video quality because of all the content being squeezed into a single 50 GB disc.

Now if they want to do it all via downloads (BD Live) or on a 2nd disc, go for it. But I'm not eager for the day when we start seeing things tilt towards extras...

Partyslammer

11-11-08, 11:43 PM

Not too derail this too much, but I strongly disagree. As far as I'm concerned the extras should go entirely on a second disc or not be included at all. Once studios start doing extras as 720p or 1080p on a regular basis you'll start to see the main feature suffer in video quality because of all the content being squeezed into a single 50 GB disc.

Now if they want to do it all via downloads (BD Live) or on a 2nd disc, go for it. But I'm not eager for the day when we start seeing things tilt towards extras...

I agree 100%. IMO, the movie itself should get the best possible presentation as the first priority on any release. I like having extra content (for some movies) and Jackson's King Kong extended version dvd set was a prime example of the mountain of extras being worthwhile viewing (for me, anyway) but it didn't come at the expense of the movie's quality on that release (which looked astonishingly as good as many HD releases).

This release will definately be a street date purchase for me and although it kinda sucks Universal isn't including most of the hours of bonus features produced for this release, I applaud Universal for not only apparantly re-encoding this release to hopefully take advantage of additional storage on BR, but including the extended cut and an upgraded soundtrack.

T.B.

patrick99

11-12-08, 05:46 AM

raoul_duke

11-12-08, 05:59 AM

I don't think I could go through the misery of watching the theatrical cut again, never mind a *shudder* extended version.

Franin

11-12-08, 06:02 AM

swifty7

11-12-08, 06:13 AM

Franin

11-12-08, 06:16 AM

LOL!!! why? what were you expecting? a real silver back gorilla of that size?

:D Wouldn't be hard to train one, eh!

MovieSwede

11-12-08, 06:48 AM

Wasnt King kong long enough, to warrant a longer cut. ;)

musicfann

11-12-08, 07:03 AM

Toknowshita

11-12-08, 10:36 AM

Personally, I already own most of the extras (KK-2 disc and KK EE-3 disc) minus the Production Diaries and I have not even watched Disc Two of the theatrical special edition. So to me this release is more about providing the film in the highest quality possible.

All I really was hoping for was the inclusion of both the theatrical and extended cuts.... SOLD!

dgkp

11-13-08, 09:07 AM

We're prolly in the minority but I'm with ya, this one could be so much meaner if only it were leaner, a DC would be awesome...trim out some of the weaker CGI moments for starters :::cough cough bronto stampede cough:::, cut some other unnecessary fat, etc, and this would be one badass movie!! Don't get me wrong, I like the TC, will buy it day one - just that I've never seen the extended cut, I'm betting there's some good stuff there that could be injected into a sweet, sweet DC, but again, only if some of the bloat was removed to keep the entire flick around 2:30 or so. Man, if only...theres enough material ya know, a GREAT movie is hiding in there somewhere! =)

Anyway, still good news, fun flick with great sights and sounds. :)

Largely agree--however, the CGI worked well in the cinema, looked lousey on the SD in parts (not Kong though)--and the dino stampede looks great (or at least much better) on the HD DVD as long as you're really, really close to the screen (i.e., less that one screen width away). It's about impact not subtlety.

Franin

11-13-08, 10:12 AM

We're prolly in the minority but I'm with ya, this one could be so much meaner if only it were leaner, a DC would be awesome...trim out some of the weaker CGI moments for starters :::cough cough bronto stampede cough:::, cut some other unnecessary fat, etc, and this would be one badass movie!! Don't get me wrong, I like the TC, will buy it day one - just that I've never seen the extended cut, I'm betting there's some good stuff there that could be injected into a sweet, sweet DC, but again, only if some of the bloat was removed to keep the entire flick around 2:30 or so. Man, if only...theres enough material ya know, a GREAT movie is hiding in there somewhere! =)

Anyway, still good news, fun flick with great sights and sounds. :)

I have to agree the bronto stampede was silly but apart from that particular scene I really enjoyed it. I've never seen the EE how many minutes more does it add it to the film? Looks like my HD DVD version will be know stored away.

raoul_duke

11-13-08, 10:31 AM

I tried to edit down my own shorter cut of King Kong. It still came in at 2hrs long, with it dangerously starting to turn into The Carl Denham Story, and a King Kong cameo...

Schils

11-13-08, 10:50 AM

I have to agree the bronto stampede was silly but apart from that particular scene I really enjoyed it. I've never seen the EE how many minutes more does it add it to the film? Looks like my HD DVD version will be know stored away.

Yeah, the more I think about it, theres really only a very few moments of cheesy/weak CGI. Funny thing is, it all seems to happen early on at the island, maybe they were rushing or something, dunno, but once it got beyond a certain point, there was never a bad CGI spot again (IMO), and I've seen it a gazillion times (this was THE ref disk for HD DVD and visitors)...

The only nitpicky spots I recall were:

Shortly after Kong snatched Naomi for the first time (not the initial sacrifice stuff - that was incred), he shakes her around over that bone pile while growling and its comical, she looks like a toy doll, hardly convincing

The "Keystone Cops" portion of the stampede, as well as when the young guy is leaping across the crumbling rocks the stampede caused, that was really lame looking there, but yeah, the early parts of that Bronto encounter look great

The native guy "pole vaulting" onto the ship to nab Naomi, the last few bounds are carootny as hell, stick figure all the way, good for a laugh everytime I saw it, was like watching a Wile E Coyote bit

When Kong is climbing the ancient stairway (with the Stegasaurous on the right)

When Kong flips Naomi over his shoulder and runs through the jungle after killing the last T-Rex (not really bad I guess, was just funny looking)

^ Thats really it though from what I remember, everything else looked awesome IMO, from the early, pre voyage stuff in NY, to the T-Rex fight, the encounter on the downed tree across the cavern, the creepy crawlies at the bottom, the escape and Kong battle with the bats, the chase back to the "wall", the cave and shoreline capture, Kong on display in the theater, running around in NY (even the ice rink part looks great), the Empire State Bldg stuff, hell, even the old bi planes looked real as could be, Kong's last moments alive, etc. ALL that stuff is fantastic, NOTHING stood out, really great CGI! So its so strange that those few early moments looked odd, like I said, its as if from a certain point on, it never looks bad again!

Heh....slow day at work, lol! :)

DigVid

11-13-08, 07:30 PM

The point of next generation discs isn't just about Video/Audio quality. It is also about extras, interactivity, etc.

Well, it may be for you and many others on and off this board, but for me and many others it's about the best HD Video and HD audio that the Blu-ray format can offer. Too often, studios rely on their extras to cover up less than perfect audio (ex: Speed Racer 3-disc yuck set). I would've so much rather had a single disc 50GB Blu-ray of the best HD Video and HD Audio that this movie (and others like it) could have provided. Instead, I get a Game disc that is virtually worthless, and a digital copy disc that only wants to steal my ID. No thanks to that kind of extras please!

Franin

11-13-08, 10:17 PM

I agree, not interested in special features. Prefer the quality.

butsu

11-13-08, 11:28 PM

The uncut version from dvd is boring,I slept 3 times in my room.May be Peter Jackson's tradition,he prefer the movie is always longer than 3 hours,I remember that many people went to pee in the toilet at the multiplex seeing Lord of the ring;Return of the king.

Franin

11-13-08, 11:53 PM

colombianlove41

11-14-08, 12:15 AM

the good thing is that some people that got this free for HDVD with the 360 player won't feel like double dipping. I must say though, Peter Jackson is a monologue whore ;)

Kevin M. Dean

11-14-08, 12:23 AM

I remember that many people went to pee in the toilet at the multiplex seeing Lord of the ring;Return of the king.

At least they had the courtesy not to pee in the aisles. ;)

R Harkness

11-14-08, 12:24 AM

I love this movie (or large parts of it). I agree it's over-long and to indulgent. But Kong himself I believe is among the most impressive special FX of all time. Absolutely stunning to think he is CGI in terms of his photo-realism and movement. The Kong effect is head and shoulders above all the other effects in that movie.

Kong's rampage through Times Square and the final sequence on top of the Empire State Building are "re-watch" material at my house.

shadowrage

11-14-08, 12:33 AM

Well, it may be for you and many others on and off this board, but for me and many others it's about the best HD Video and HD audio that the Blu-ray format can offer. Too often, studios rely on their extras to cover up less than perfect audio (ex: Speed Racer 3-disc yuck set).
Come one. That's Warner Brothers only, everyone know they run their s$@t backwards. Even fox provides lossless and digital copies.

And if Paramount and Disney have taught us anything it's that you can have Top Quality video and audio. And like 3 hours of HD extras. Disney throws in digital copies. All at a price point comparable to what Warner offers with their stuff. Most of the time better prices.

Too often? No, Just Warner. But Uni is picking up their habbit of not putting two blu-ray discs into an elite case. WTF is that about?:confused:

butsu

11-14-08, 01:58 AM

At least they had the courtesy not to pee in the aisles. ;)Very good gag reel.It is not appropiated in THX certified multiplex.:)

leng jai

11-14-08, 02:31 AM

Can't be bothered upgrading to Blu for this. The HD-DVD is already phenomenal.

Randy Mathis

11-14-08, 01:45 PM

I thought that they did a great makeup job on Jack Black. He looked so much like a giant ape I thought that it was CGI.

John Ballentine

11-14-08, 03:25 PM

hdblu

11-15-08, 01:24 AM

Can not wait I have the HD DVD but this blu ray extended cut must have awesome< & Master audio, That a upgrade then the HD DVD Dolby plus. ;)

Franin

11-15-08, 03:23 AM

Can't be bothered upgrading to Blu for this. The HD-DVD is already phenomenal.

It is phenomenal, though the EE is a plus and also the DTS MA. No problems in double dipping over here.

leng jai

11-15-08, 07:24 PM

It is phenomenal, though the EE is a plus and also the DTS MA. No problems in double dipping over here.

Man, the normal cut of King Kong was already too long for my liking. I'm pretty sure the audio was DD+ 1.5mbps so for people like me with only a DD/DTS receiver, its not much use.

Cash Bailey

11-15-08, 07:29 PM

I still think KONG KONG on HD-DVD remains the definiitive high-def reference title.

I don't think anything's matched it in terms of live-action films.

Franin

11-15-08, 07:36 PM

Man, the normal cut of King Kong was already too long for my liking. I'm pretty sure the audio was DD+ 1.5mbps so for people like me with only a DD/DTS receiver, its not much use.

I personally did not mind the length of the film as I've always been a fan of King Kong movie since seeing the 80's version when i was a kid.With the audio im intrested to hear if there is a noticeable difference between the two.

tiger_qc

11-15-08, 08:17 PM

The extendes cut isn't that much longer and worth it!
I just don't understand why didn't they put those scenes on the original movie.
The 2 extended scenes I've noticed were loaded with action and FX that sould of been in the theatrical release, I'm so getting this one! (even if my HD-DVD still wrapped)

eweiss

11-19-08, 08:59 PM

Despite my earlier comment that I wouldn't buy this, I was in Best Buy tonight and they were playing the Three-Rex fight sequence on the preview for the Blu-Ray of King Kong ... and I was mesmerized. Though in some ways the increased clarity more clearly shows the green-screening of Naomi Watts, it was a real "Wow!" experience watching it, even though it was on a smallish 46" (I think) screen.

It would be great to see this with Auto Motion Plus.

Dave Mack

11-19-08, 09:08 PM

How soon til' we see a thread with "Is there any EE on the EE..?" in it?

;)

Cash Bailey

11-19-08, 09:09 PM

To continue on from my earlier post about the HD-DVD; I still think the finale on top of the Empire State Building is the single greatest live action hi-def scene I've ever laid eyes on.

I mean, you can see the headlights on the cars driving through the city hundreds of feet below.

Hopefully the Blu-Ray version (with the full compliment of special features) can live up to that staggeringly high standard set by that original HD-DVD version.

Kosty

11-19-08, 10:45 PM

Extended cut will be my reason for double dip.

Great for Blu-ray demo material as well.

Penman

11-20-08, 12:27 AM

To continue on from my earlier post about the HD-DVD; I still think the finale on top of the Empire State Building is the single greatest live action hi-def scene I've ever laid eyes on.

I agree that it looks amazing.

But: I wonder if the term "live-action" truly applies when that sequence is all (except for Naomi and some props) CGI? That is, the gap between King Kong and Wall*E is pretty narrow by this measure.

Cash Bailey

11-20-08, 12:30 AM

I agree. It's splitting hairs, if you want to look at it that way.

elezzar

11-20-08, 09:01 AM

JeffY

11-20-08, 09:29 AM

Please can I have an extra cut version, take away about 30 minutes of over the top CGI and there is a decent movie to be had.

allargon

11-20-08, 09:51 AM

Come one. That's Warner Brothers only, everyone know they run their s$@t backwards. Even fox provides lossless and digital copies.

You can pan Warner for their lack of high res audio. However, I am celebrating no studio for those digital copies. New release Blu-Ray discs went from being $22-25 street to $25-28 because of those low res, DRM'd digital copies. Personally, I don't see Kong looking better. However, the sound upgrade should be significant considering Kong was one of the earliest high def releases.

skibum5000

11-22-08, 01:42 PM

Man, the normal cut of King Kong was already too long for my liking. I'm pretty sure the audio was DD+ 1.5mbps so for people like me with only a DD/DTS receiver, its not much use.

you can always use analog inputs and have the player decode the lossless

skibum5000

11-22-08, 01:43 PM

This is one of those movies that take full advantage of high def. Just comparing the standard dvd with the hd dvd one can see the difference. I'm gonna buy this movie again 'cause I really loved the extended cut of this movie.

same here, love the movie, but so far i'e only been able to get the extended on regular DVD which just doesn't hold up

lordcloud

11-22-08, 01:49 PM

Please can I have an extra cut version, take away about 30 minutes of over the top CGI and there is a decent movie to be had.

HA HA HA HA! I have to agree with you here, although I am interested in seeing the EE. I will buy this one if for nothing else than the insane PQ. Still a reference!

Vader424242

11-22-08, 01:53 PM

Cash Bailey

11-22-08, 01:53 PM

This a wildly over-indulgent, glorious mess of a film. But I thuink Jackson earned it after LORD OF THE RINGS.

His KING KONG definitely feels like a movie he just had to get out of his system before he moved onto more substantial projects. So I guess he just had to throw everything he had into it.

But I still wish they'd made their 1996 script for the film. It wasn't so close to the original and wouldn't have been so lengthy and precious.

MovieSwede

11-22-08, 04:39 PM

I prefer the 1976 year version, at least it isnt long enough.

Sure the effects in many shots are outdated, and it certainly has some other issues. But there is something about that movie that appeals to me.

(maybe because it doesnt keep going and going and going)

butsu

11-24-08, 11:32 PM

I will still buy it even if I have HD DVD and DVD exteded edition.

Franin

01-01-09, 08:26 AM

Hopefully this will have an early release date like TDK did.

s2mikey

01-01-09, 09:02 AM

Man, the normal cut of King Kong was already too long for my liking.

Yeah, I mean...its a two-hour movie crammed into a 3+ hour time slot. Just a little too much of everything. Some of the over-the-top action sequences start to get irritating after like 20 minutes or longer! It suffers the same problem as the Star Wars prequels: Scenes are devised for the sole purpose of using CGI and "showing" everyone how hi-tech they are. It looks cartoonish and doesnt drive the story forward whatsoever. Oh well.

I'll stick with my HD DVD.... I will likely never watch the flick again anyways.

eweiss

01-01-09, 09:30 AM

I watched the extended edition again the other day. Peter Jackson's KING KONG is one of those movies that to me seems worse with repeated viewings. This film could have been really good, but in so many ways - the ridiculous CGI and other stuff like the dinosaur stampede and pile-up; Jimmy unerringly shooting giant bugs off Jack Driscoll with a machine gun; Carl Denham's lame repeated line about giving all the profits to the dead guys' wives and kids (and Jack Black himself - a horrible piece of miscasting and mischaracterization of Denham); Ann Darrow climbing to the top of the Empire State Building with no strong winds endangering her; Ann being thrown and tossed and caught over and over and over again by Kong without so much as getting a sore neck, let alone being horribly crippled for life with crushed vertebrae; her again-and-again escapes by the skin of her teeth from being caught and eaten by various creatures; etc. - it played out like a bunch of otherwise fine actors looking for a good movie. Some excellent scenes, but overall so much less than the sum of its parts.

The Blu-Ray would make for better watching (but can't fix the movie's flaws), and I'd love seeing it with Auto Motion Plus activated, but I'm also afraid the higher definition would make the green screen effects more obvious. For those who have seen the HD DVD version, are the green screen effects more obvious than on the SD DVD?

thebland

01-01-09, 09:50 AM

Pure garbage... the 'added footage' is simply a way to have folks recycle their garbage. Admittedly, I still have my HD DVD copy... but haven't watched it since I bought (and likely never will again).

colombianlove41

01-01-09, 01:28 PM

i think this has been asked already but there is only the ext. cut on blu coming out right?

Dave Mack

01-01-09, 02:20 PM

Lotta threadcrapping going on here...

Malcolm_B

01-01-09, 03:03 PM

I'll give it a rent, but this wasn't a movie I'd care to watch again and again.

Deviation

01-01-09, 03:05 PM

i think this has been asked already but there is only the ext. cut on blu coming out right?It should be both cuts via seamless branching.

Toe

01-01-09, 04:02 PM

Hopefully this will have an early release date like TDK did.

I hope so as well. Looking forward to some early reviews/impressions. This is one of my favorite HT experiences and a no brainer double dip for me:)

Franin

01-01-09, 06:49 PM

Lotta threadcrapping going on here...

Agree there must be another thread where members can voice there disappointment of a film.

s2mikey

01-01-09, 08:46 PM

Agree there must be another thread where members can voice there disappointment of a film.

Actually, there isnt. If you start a new thread about a movie it gets "modded" and locked or the contents get moved into a thread like this. I dont see what the big deal is when people discuss issues they had with the movie in a thread about the release of a movie. I mean... what are we supposed to talk about other than them film itself? Its like:

"Yeah man, they are releasing King Kong on xxxx date." "Cool man. It will have lossless audio and be the extended cut with whatever encode they use."

"Great."

After a few technobabble posts, what else is there to say in these threads about movies? :confused:

zBuff

01-01-09, 08:47 PM

I was just reading up about the film, I'm surprised how true it was to the original 1933 film, there are heaps of tributes made throughout the film.

The extended version adds a whole bunch more tributes

lordcloud

01-01-09, 10:57 PM

actually, there isnt. If you start a new thread about a movie it gets "modded" and locked or the contents get moved into a thread like this. I dont see what the big deal is when people discuss issues they had with the movie in a thread about the release of a movie. I mean... What are we supposed to talk about other than them film itself? Its like:

"yeah man, they are releasing king kong on xxxx date." "cool man. It will have lossless audio and be the extended cut with whatever encode they use."

"great."

after a few technobabble posts, what else is there to say in these threads about movies? :confused:

+1

Toe

01-01-09, 11:52 PM

Franin

01-01-09, 11:58 PM

Fair enough. Point taken!

Thunderbolt8

01-08-09, 08:27 PM

review up:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews21/king_kong_2005_dvd_review.htm

Franin

01-08-09, 08:36 PM

Mine is showing ready to ship just awaiting max Payne.

butsu

01-08-09, 08:48 PM

The extended scenes do not make this movie better or worse,CGI added was great.I bought(ordered) this BD cause of PQ and SQ and this is enough values to buy this BD again after HDDVD(merely DD PLUS).

butsu

01-08-09, 08:51 PM

Mine is showing ready to ship just awaiting max Payne.Max Payne is a better film that made from game than Hitman.Mate,can't hardly wait to see it again.:)

Franin

01-08-09, 10:06 PM

The extended scenes do not make this movie better or worse,CGI added was great.I bought(ordered) this BD cause of PQ and SQ and this is enough values to buy this BD again after HDDVD(merely DD PLUS).

I agree, its a fun film to watch.

Franin

01-08-09, 10:07 PM

Max Payne is a better film that made from game than Hitman.Mate,can't hardly wait to see it again.:)

Have not seen max Payne yet, looking forward to watching it. :)

Toe

01-08-09, 10:10 PM

I am sure this has been covered and sorry I am lazy:o, but how many minutes longer is the EE? I am realy looking forward to this BR. :)

butsu

01-08-09, 10:15 PM

Have not seen max Payne yet, looking forward to watching it. :)
Max Payne is better,the story was more like original game(except less scene about Bullet Time).I saw at the Digital Cinema,good CGI,surround was most active almost the time).:)

DM2006RI

01-08-09, 10:41 PM

The extended scenes do not make this movie better or worse,

More of KING KONG is not better. The movie was brutally overlong at 3 hours+ as is.

rlindo

01-08-09, 10:54 PM

Actually, there isnt. If you start a new thread about a movie it gets "modded" and locked or the contents get moved into a thread like this. I dont see what the big deal is when people discuss issues they had with the movie in a thread about the release of a movie. I mean... what are we supposed to talk about other than them film itself? Its like:

"Yeah man, they are releasing King Kong on xxxx date." "Cool man. It will have lossless audio and be the extended cut with whatever encode they use."

"Great."

After a few technobabble posts, what else is there to say in these threads about movies? :confused:

The problem is nobody gives a crap what you, me, anyone thinks about the movie. If you like the movie then you like the movie and people not liking it isn't going to change your mind. If you dislike it then nobody will make you like it.

Having people post their like/dislike serves zero purpose other than making those stating their opinion somehow feel important.

I will never in 4 trillion years understand the logic or point of people coming into threads and saying "I hate this movie!!" (especially threads that don't deal with reviews) as if those who do like a movie will say "wow, Joe blow didn't like it. I don't like it now either!":rolleyes:

Seriously, what does ragging on Kong possibly do to help this thread? I do not like American Idol thus I do not go into american idol threads and state that.

butsu

01-08-09, 11:03 PM

More of KING KONG is not better. The movie was brutally overlong at 3 hours+ as is.
It is the tradition of making films of Peter Jackson,the true version as he wanted to be,must have 3 hours running time.

Toe

01-09-09, 12:30 AM

More of KING KONG is not better. The movie was brutally overlong at 3 hours+ as is.

I completely disagree. I get so caught up in this film that the 3 hours just flys by and I did not want it to end. This movie is HT crack as well from a technical standpoint and one of the best A/V experiences on either format (and this is going off the HD-DVD) This is one of the few movies that is the whole package for me(awesome content, reference video, reference audio) Cant wait for the EE and DTS-MA!:)

Franin

01-09-09, 01:52 AM

I completely disagree. I get so caught up in this film that the 3 hours just flys by and I did not want it to end. This movie is HT crack as well from a technical standpoint and one of the best A/V experiences on either format (and this is going off the HD-DVD) This is one of the few movies that is the whole package for me(awesome content, reference video, reference audio) Cant wait for the EE and DTS-MA!:)

I guess its each to there own, I'm like you guys I thoroughly enjoyed it to even think about the time. Will be looking forward to lotr trilogy also, they go for quite awhile too. :)

shadowrage

01-09-09, 02:06 AM

Blu-ray cap
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews43/king%20kong%20blu-ray/large/large%20king%20kong%20blu-ray12.jpg
HD-DVD cap from xylon
http://www.imageviper.com/displayimage/78425/0/KKhddvd2.png

The blu-ray cap seems to be a few frames later, but that's all I could find until xylon does his official comparison.:cool:

Hmmm... the fine detail on the facial close ups don't look too detailed. I'll have to fire up my HD-DVD player tomorrow to see if it's just me(if the dust hasn't destroyed it). Looking at the dvd it might just be make-up. Kong's close up looks fine.

Franin

01-09-09, 05:21 AM

I am sure this has been covered and sorry I am lazy:o, but how many minutes longer is the EE? I am realy looking forward to this BR. :)

15 minutes:)

butsu

01-09-09, 08:45 AM

15 minutes:)Love Naomi Watt and Kong anyway.:)

davcole

01-09-09, 09:12 AM

I remember the first time I saw the theaterical I was bored to tears. I found it extremely long. Nowadays it's still too long and has some boring pacing but overall it's not a bad film. It will be interesting to finally see the Extended Edition to see what was added and if it helped the story along.

I'm expecting this BD to be a demo disc!

AVSSVA

01-09-09, 11:46 AM

"We're prolly in the minority but I'm with ya, this one could be so much meaner if only it were leaner, a DC would be awesome...trim out some of the weaker CGI moments for starters :::cough cough bronto stampede cough:::, cut some other unnecessary fat, etc, and this would be one badass movie!!"

That's what I love about my dvd burner. I have several movies that I own that I like, but think if they we're edited better they could be better films. So I use my burner and re-edit films to remove scenes that I think are unnecessary. I figure this is as close as I'll get to being an editor in Hollywood. It's actually a fun hobby if you love movies. I have edited this version of "Kong" My version, and cut it down to around 2 hrs.
I shortened the beggining enough to introduce you to the characters, but get them to the Island quicker. I than cut some of the hokier scenes (bad CGI) on the island like you mentioned.

Other movies I've re-edited are "Pearl Harbor" Got it down to an 1 hr 50mins. For that one I stoled the idea from the classic "Tora Tora Tora" and kept in the scenes showing what both sides we're thinking (USA - Japan) and cut out all the romance crap (love triangle), and of course I left in all the action scenes. Even my wife likes this version better. Again the trick of course is editing enough to inroduce you to the main characters without hurting the story, or making it look choppy. Kate Beckingscale is pretty much not even in my version.

Others I've toyed with are "Exorcist 3" Good movie, but bad editing hurt that film.

I blended the 2 "The Fog" films. John Carpenters movies. What I did was edited in some of the FX from the crappy remake, into the original. For those familiar with the original version, the opening scene where Houseman is telling a ghost story about the leper ship Elizabeth Dane, the camera pans up after he's finished speaking, I than edited in the opening sequence from the new version, showing the destruction of the Elizabeth Dane.

The results we're ok. Hard to piece a 1980 film with a 2005 movie. It was a "lets see what I can do with this" kind of project.

The one I really want to mess with is the "Lord Of The Rings" trilogy. I'm having a hell of a time though trying to story board that one. Not going to be easy trying to cram 9 hours of material into a 3 hour movie. :)

RY35AN

01-09-09, 12:12 PM

Toe

01-09-09, 12:20 PM

15 minutes:)

Nice! Thanks.

kdssrugby

01-09-09, 12:29 PM

@RY35AN:
I'm not sure how AVSSVA does it but this is how I've done it in the past.
Find a dvd ripper online and rip it to your computer. Find a muxing program that converts the movie into a mpeg 2 format. Do this for both films, then get a video editing program and load both films into the timeline. Edit the film to your hearts content, then render the film which (depending on your hardware) can take a number of hours. Once done you then use another software program to make it into a dvd. This is a long and tedious process and depends on how badly you want to re-edit the film. I've also found that depending on the software, the re-rendered result looks inferior to the original product.

This can be done with blu-rays, but the selection of software to do it is far more expensive and limited. It also takes a great deal more space and time in rendering.

Copper Blue

01-09-09, 12:33 PM

I've always thought that creating your own cut of a movie would be a GREAT extra on Blu-rays. And it probably could be done without too much trouble (I know almost nothing about how the Blu-ray bookmarking feature works, but i'd guess it would somehow utilize that). In fact, the new Harold & Kumar sort of has that already with the "Dude, Change the Movie!" feature (topless party vs bottomless party). And not only would taking out scenes improve certain movies, but how many movies have deleted scenes you wish were put back in the film? I would instantly insert the entire "Do you know how I know you're gay" and most of the speed dating scenes back into 40 YO Virgin. And it was criminal that "The Government Totally Sucks" was removed from Pick Of Destiny. When I watch that film, I actually stop it at the appropriate point, go to the deleted scenes section, watch the scene, and then start up the film again where I left off.

DigitalfreakNYC

01-09-09, 01:30 PM

After seeing the specs of Kong, I'm a bit pissed that more extras weren't included. There's no excuse. The space was there.

sharkcohen

01-09-09, 01:35 PM

DavidHir

01-09-09, 01:44 PM

FoxyMulder

01-09-09, 02:14 PM

I love on the original Shrek DVD extras how you could take some scenes and using a microphone and your PC you could put your own voice into the scenes and have a really good laugh at the results.

Why they didn't do that for Shrek 2 and 3 i'll never know because it was very entertaining to be able to do that.

AVSSVA

01-09-09, 02:27 PM

"That sounds like a cool hobby. What type of DVD burner do you need to be able to do that sort of thing?"

Actually it's one I purchased off of newegg, for about $35. Pioneer I believe. There very cheap if you don't already have one in your computer. Samsung, Liteon, LG, Pioneer, Sony...there all priced about the same ($25-$40) and from what I can tell have the same quality. Pretty much every newer Desktop computer comes with a Dvd burner already installed.

The programs I use are "DVD-shrink", "Dvd Decrypter" these 2 are free downloads, and "Anydvd". Anydvd cost me $30 two years ago. I use these 3 together to make back-up copies of all my dvd movies. I use "DvD shrink" to do my editing. It allows you to go frame by frame of a film allowing to you cut exactly where you want.
It's actually very easy to do. I think what "kdssrugby" is talking about is different than what I use. Reason I say that is, the picture and sound quality are identical to the dvd your editing. In otherwords PQ and SQ are perfect.

Another thing I have done was made my own home theater demo disc. I took about 30 movies "Lord Of the Rings" "Die Hard", "Independence Day", "Day After Tomorrow", "Jurrasic Park"....etc all action films and put all the action (big FX scenes) together so friends and family can see, and hear my HT in action.

What I'm working on right now, is taking famous scenes and lines from movies and cramming them all on to one disc. EX: The movie "Airplane" the scene where you hear the line "Surely you can't be serious?" "Yes I am, and don't call me Shirley" I'll use scenes from "Jaws", "Raiders", "Animal House" pretty much any movie that I have that has lines or scenes we all know by heart will be put on the disc. I'm trying to keep each scene under 1 minute per film.

I promised my wife I would use the scene from "Army Of Darkness" where Ash yells out "Listen up you primitive screwheads, this here is my Boomstick!" That may not be verbatim, but you get the idea. Still haven't decided on what line to take from the "Godfather"

I currently have scenes from about 35 movies cut, I'll probably use 100 movies. Now this is tedious to do.

Franchot

01-09-09, 03:10 PM

I currently have scenes from about 35 movies cut, I'll probably use 100 movies. Now this is tedious to do.

Sounds great! Send me a copy and I'll critique it for you. ;)

jrcorwin

01-09-09, 03:48 PM

After seeing the specs of Kong, I'm a bit pissed that more extras weren't included. There's no excuse. The space was there.
I can understand that, but extras are way down on the list of BD priorities for me personally. I could care less if I get a plain case and no extras at all. Just give me the film with a good transfer and PCM, TrueHD, or DT-HD MA. That's just me though.

paul nyc

01-09-09, 05:16 PM

I can understand that, but extras are way down on the list of BD priorities for me personally. I could care less if I get a plain case and no extras at all. Just give me the film with a good transfer and PCM, TrueHD, or DT-HD MA. That's just me though.

+1

I received the disk. Reference quality all the way.

Thunderbolt8

01-09-09, 05:23 PM

exactly as good or better than the HD DVD transfer or little bit worse? (the extended cut)

paul nyc

01-09-09, 05:25 PM

exactly as good or better than the HD DVD transfer or little bit worse? (the extended cut)

I haven't done an A/B but from relying on my memory, I'd say it's the same if not better in PQ than the HD-DVD. Audio is a big step up.

Franin

01-09-09, 05:48 PM

I haven't done an A/B but from relying on my memory, I'd say it's the same if not better in PQ than the HD-DVD. Audio is a big step up.

Good to hear :)

Thunderbolt8

01-09-09, 07:13 PM

appears to be slightly DNR'ed compared to the HD DVD. not very much, but still somewhat disappointing :S

jrcorwin

01-09-09, 07:15 PM

appears to be slightly DNR'ed compared to the HD DVD. not very much, but still somewhat disappointing :S
You have the disc?

Thunderbolt8

01-09-09, 07:17 PM

no, but I noticed it from screenshots

jrcorwin

01-09-09, 07:18 PM

no, but I noticed it from screenshots
I haven't seen them yet. From dvdbeaver.com?

Boo to screenshots of an unknown quality. Let's wait for a disc.

Franin

01-09-09, 07:25 PM

I haven't seen them yet. From dvdbeaver.com?

Boo to screenshots of an unknown quality. Let's wait for a disc.

Agree.

Thunderbolt8

01-09-09, 07:35 PM

BD vs HD DVD

http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/2320/6bcc1323198655.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6bcc1323198655) http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2320/496c2523198656.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/496c2523198656)

maybe its not really DNR, but at least the HD DVD is very slightly sharper and has little more grain. looks a little more natural.

chirpie

01-09-09, 07:46 PM

Favelle

01-09-09, 08:46 PM

Thunderbolt8

01-09-09, 08:48 PM

the BD screens were taken with media player classic and haali renderer on PC, so they are maybe a little too red. should look a little different with other players. thats why the difference in colour. dont worry about that, just focus on detail.

heres a more accurate one:

BD vs HD DVD

http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2321/6bcc1323203367.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6bcc1323203367) http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2321/496c2523203369.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/496c2523203369)

Kram Sacul

01-09-09, 10:32 PM

The area around her eyes have been totally wiped clean on the BD encode. The eyelashes are way more resolved on the HD-DVD and the pore detail is all filtered out.

Universal, you unholy bastards. :(

jrcorwin

01-09-09, 10:37 PM

Overreaction based upon screenshots...now that's the avsforum I know and love.

Dave Mack

01-09-09, 10:55 PM

well, here we have an actual comparison to an earlier HD version so it's not just like, "DAMN! this new transfer looks like ass!"

:)

DavidHir

01-09-09, 10:58 PM

There's almost some sort of compression noise or something on her face too with the BD.

Just one screenshot, but makes me a little disappointed. Kong was virtually perfect on HD DVD and there's no reason to try and "fix" it. My copy should be arriving fairly soon.

Franin

01-09-09, 11:20 PM

jrcorwin

01-09-09, 11:34 PM

What is so difficult about waiting until you have the disc in hand? Screenshots people...come on...we're comparing random screenshots. I for one am growing very tired of the endless panic and the incredibly pessimistic attitudes before a BD has even been released.

Franin

01-09-09, 11:37 PM

filmfreak

01-09-09, 11:39 PM

The HD DVD looks better. Dang....

jrcorwin

01-09-09, 11:47 PM

The HD DVD looks better. Dang....
It does? Based on what?

eric.exe

01-09-09, 11:58 PM

What is so difficult about waiting until you have the disc in hand?. What is so difficult about understanding screenshots show exactly what is on the disc?

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:08 AM

I understand the controversy at looking at one random screenshot out of context but when you're looking at the identical shot from 2 HD sources it's pretty easy to compare. The HDdvd version shows more facial detail, pores etc... than the BD. Granted it's only one shot but I doubt they would randomly soften, filter just one shot and the rest will look identical. Probably the whole thing had a pass done.

jrcorwin

01-10-09, 12:09 AM

What is so difficult about understanding screenshots show exactly what is on the disc?
Probably the fact that they don't when you have no control over how they are obtained. Screenshots can be misleading when captured incorrectly. It has even been done intentionally at times.

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:11 AM

Probably the fact that they don't when you have no control over how they are obtained. Screenshots can be misleading when captured incorrectly. It has even been done intentionally at times.

true. Could be possible.

Xylon? edit: (I mean Xylon could take some captures to compare, NOT that I was implying Xylon manipulates anything purposefully)

jrcorwin

01-10-09, 12:11 AM

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:12 AM

take it easy....

You simply asked, "How does the HDdvd look better than the BD?" before. based on those 2 shots, (assuming there was no error and no purposeful deception) the Hddvd shows more facial detail IMHO. I can see more pores. That's it. You asked how it looked better is all...

:)

jrcorwin

01-10-09, 12:13 AM

true. Could be possible.

Xylon?
I won't comment on anyone specifically, but there are those who did and still do prefer the other format. Which is fine until it leads to sabotage.

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:15 AM

I hear ya, man. Not me.
I had an hd-a2 and it's sitting in a box.
And I wasn't suggesting Xylon does that, I was saying, "Xylon..? Comparison?"

jrcorwin

01-10-09, 12:18 AM

I hear ya, man. Not me.
I had an hd-a2 and it's sitting in a box.
I am/was format neutral...well, in my mind anyway. Never purchased an HD-DVD player. Still too damn expensive for some reason.

By the way, I have an extra $20 or so laying around if you need to part with that hd-a2... :)

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:20 AM

Man, I have it and like 10 discs that I can't even give away...

(Well, I could but I'm not gonna...)

:)

but you're right. We should all just settle down.

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:21 AM

true, benes, true...

lgans316

01-10-09, 12:25 AM

Average bit rate is reported wrong at dvdbeaver. The average video bit rate should be around 16~17 Mbps after subtracting the bit used for audio and extras. Quite disappointing that UNI couldn't feature more extras. I hope they didn't apply any DNR.

jrcorwin

01-10-09, 12:28 AM

Actually its not quite that easy. Since they are different encodes there is no guarantee that the I-frames match up. It could very well be that the very next frame looks better on the blu-ray. This might also explain the tiny differences we saw on Serenity and Transformers. You certainly need more than one screenshot before drawing any conclusions. And ideally you wouldn't draw conclusions before seeing it in motion either. Screenshots are fine for showing extreme cases like Truman Show but not for everything. PQ is made up of many frames shown in succession (persistence of vision and all that jazz). Taking one snap out of that doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.

Now it could very well be that this screenshot shows exactly what the blu-ray is like in comparison to the HDDVD. But its important we understand the big picture too (pun intended).

+1 Exactly.

Unfortunenly, there will soon be a screenshot thread and everyone will forget what you have pointed out.

eric.exe

01-10-09, 12:31 AM

Probably the fact that they don't when you have no control over how they are obtained. Screenshots can be misleading when captured incorrectly. It has even been done intentionally at times. I'll agree with that, I forgot the screencapper has to be vetted. :D

paul nyc

01-10-09, 12:33 AM

After watching the disc all the way through just now (extended version) i can say that for the first 30-40min, there is a slight wave of DNR applied, most noticeable on Naomi Watts face during the diner sequence among others. Not Dark City levels, but it's there. As soon as they land on the island, the DNR imho, seems to be scaled back and everything looks fabulous again for the remainder of the film.

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:35 AM

Maybe when Jackson was re-cutting the film for the extended cut he did a bit of digital mastering, what have you and that might explain the difference?

jrcorwin

01-10-09, 12:36 AM

I'll agree with that, I forgot the screencapper has to be vetted. :D
I've got the CIA, FBI, NSA, and Secret Service on standby. I thought about calling the Reno Sheriff's Department and while Lt. Dangle would be humorous...we wouldn't get much accomplished.

Dave Mack

01-10-09, 12:37 AM

Don't forget Sherriff Buford T. Justice

;)

Toe

01-10-09, 12:52 AM

paul nyc

01-10-09, 12:55 AM

And so it begins.....:(

How is the DTS-MA Paul? Thank God they cant DNR that!:D

Very good. Nice low end kick and surrounds really become active once kong meets Anne for the first time.

Toe

01-10-09, 01:00 AM

Very good. Nice low end kick and surrounds really become active once kong meets Anne for the first time.

Nice. Well atleast the audio will be as good or better than the HD-DVD.

Franin

01-10-09, 01:05 AM

Very good. Nice low end kick and surrounds really become active once kong meets Anne for the first time.

Do you notice the difference between the hddvd version dd+ and the dts hd ma

butsu

01-10-09, 02:20 AM

Do you notice the difference between the hddvd version dd+ and the dts hd maGood day Mate,I think you like King Kong very much so as me.In cinemascope screen HDDVD was awesome when Kong on top of The Empire State.If you have some time may be you visit me at my HT gallery(showing a lot of Kong pictures).:)

Kram Sacul

01-10-09, 04:21 AM

Probably the fact that they don't when you have no control over how they are obtained. Screenshots can be misleading when captured incorrectly. It has even been done intentionally at times.

When was there incorrectly captured screenshots and by whom? Just curious.

paul nyc

01-10-09, 11:12 AM

Do you notice the difference between the hddvd version dd+ and the dts hd ma

I did indeed. Everything is tighter and more transparent. Low end is not nearly as loose as the DD+ but rather very punchy and fast. The usual improvements are here when updating to lossless.

paul nyc

01-10-09, 11:15 AM

Don't forget Sherriff Buford T. Justice

;)

There's no way. No WAY you came from my loins.

Franin

01-10-09, 11:15 AM

I did indeed. Everything is tighter and more transparent. Low end is not nearly as loose as the DD+ but rather very punchy and fast. The usual improvements are here when updating to lossless.

Thanks for that paul nyc. I have the HD DVD version also which I thought was very good and now awaiting the BD version its good to hear the improvements are there.:)

DavidHir

01-10-09, 11:40 AM

jrcorwin

01-10-09, 11:42 AM

When was there incorrectly captured screenshots and by whom? Just curious.
Just take a look around...it won't take long.

Franin

01-10-09, 11:51 AM

Good day Mate,I think you like King Kong very much so as me.In cinemascope screen HDDVD was awesome when Kong on top of The Empire State.If you have some time may be you visit me at my HT gallery(showing a lot of Kong pictures).:)

Already have looks impressive. :)

PWNKAKE

01-10-09, 01:20 PM

I'm wondering if maybe the EE and the Theatrical look differently on the Blu Ray? Anyone confirm or deny this?

Thanks. :)

AVSSVA

01-10-09, 02:32 PM

"Don't forget Sherriff Buford T. Justice"

lol, yeah even Barney Fife is on alert, and is being allowed to carry 2 bullets in his top pocket.

PWNKAKE

01-10-09, 04:02 PM

King Kong is one of my favorite pieces of modern film because of the atmosphere, emotions, and quality that appeals to me. Because of this, i want the best transfer that can be provided.

I think everyone here can agree no two eyes and ears are the same when it comes to audio/video. I for one am thankful for some of the more critical eyes and ears here and think its in our best interests to have the afformentioned Bufords and Fifes. As has been mentioned before studios need to be held accountable for transfers. I'll also just add that viewing movies on a 100+ projected screen to my 40inches of LCD are two different experiences and could probably account for much of the disconnect the two groups feel (DNR-aware & DNR blind). Same with Lossless capable 7.1 systems and HTIBs that barely process DD.

That being said, am i an audeio or videophile? NO. I can't tell the difference between many of the screens compared in this thread and the DK one. I can tell the difference between a lossless track and a lossy one (maybe its because my sound system is a bit more up to snuff).

I can tell you i love AVSforum for all its members... from Joe6pack to Fife & Burfords. I wouldn't know the difference between lossless and lossy had i not had this site to research and buy equipment that will allow me complete nirvana when i watch King Kong. ;)

maingon

01-10-09, 06:02 PM

The area around her eyes have been totally wiped clean on the BD encode. The eyelashes are way more resolved on the HD-DVD and the pore detail is all filtered out.

Universal, you unholy bastards. :(

are you really gonna notice any changes like that when watching the movie? I barely can see any difference between either. come on people. people on this forum will zoom up 200-300% percent and find a flaw and act like its a horrible picture. 99.99% of the issues people mention on these forums are things that you wont notice when watching the movie unless you pause zoom in and then compare the HD-DVD or picture

Franin

01-10-09, 06:34 PM

Paul Cordingley

01-10-09, 06:42 PM

are you really gonna notice any changes like that when watching the movie? I barely can see any difference between either. come on people. people on this forum will zoom up 200-300% percent and find a flaw and act like its a horrible picture. 99.99% of the issues people mention on these forums are things that you wont notice when watching the movie unless you pause zoom in and then compare the HD-DVD or picture

No, you're absolutely right. Absolutely. Studio's should in fact keep going with the DNR until it is far more obvious so that people like you (the average person who doesn't care) will be easily able to spot it.

I think screen shots do people like you a dis-service. How dare someone take the time to get two identical frames from two different media, upload them and then have the audacity to let you judge for yourself any differences. It is absolutely within your right to come to a post like this and criticise people for making their own judgements as they see them. Furthermore, your time has been wasted, right? As you say, you can "barely see any difference", which means you must have really, really looked hard - and that's not easy. We're sorry for that.

No, it's people like *you* who we should all listen to. Please post your next sage advice so that those misguided amongst us who appreciate the efforts of people who post screen shots can learn and correct our clearly ridiculous ways.

DavidHir

01-10-09, 07:25 PM

are you really gonna notice any changes like that when watching the movie?

Maybe. Maybe not. The question is, what's the purpose of the filtering and why sacrifice any detail? This was not a very grainy movie anyway so even film grain haters couldn't complain on this one.

Toe

01-10-09, 07:49 PM

Universal was on a roll until this:( This does not ruin it for me, but this one bothers me more than any other simply because the HD-DVD is reference quality and I dont understand why they would **** with it!:confused: Certainly not a show stopper, but confusing none the less.

I am most looking forward to the DTS-MA though and the EE so those 2 things wont be screwed with atleast:)

Franin

01-10-09, 08:00 PM

Universal was on a roll until this:( This does not ruin it for me, but this one bothers me more than any other simply because the HD-DVD is reference quality and I dont understand why they would **** with it!:confused: Certainly not a show stopper, but confusing none the less.

maybe there still sore that BD won and HD DVD lost.:p

paul nyc

01-10-09, 08:04 PM

butsu

01-10-09, 08:06 PM

No thing is perfect,we must ignore some minor defect that does not ruined the whole disc.King Kong BD is a must buy BD,I think the picture is not difference or worse than HDDVD.The good things are DTS HD MA with extended cgi sequences.

PWNKAKE

01-10-09, 08:22 PM

Sorry about my ignorance but who are the buford and the fifes?

I was just making reference to the posts above mine. :)

Vader424242

01-10-09, 08:43 PM

Sorry about my ignorance but who are the buford and the fifes?

Buford T. Justice - The "Smokey" in Smokey and the Bandit (The immortal Jackie Gleason)
Barney Fife - The Deputy in "The Andy Griffith Show" (not allowed to carry a loaded gun, and carries single bullet in his pocket; Don Kotts)

Supertrapped

01-10-09, 09:09 PM

This will look amazing in Bluray. I can't wait. :cool:

cnikirk

01-10-09, 09:18 PM

I can easily notice the difference while watching on a 60" plasma. It's not horrible as mentioned before but it's still evident until they reach skull island.

Yes exactly. Most of the screen shots that are posted on this forum are not zoomed in. You can notice the DNR on 60" display pretty easily while the movie is running. It only gets worse on bigger screens.

Toe

01-10-09, 09:28 PM

maybe there still sore that BD won and HD DVD lost.:p

lol:p maybe:)

I can easily notice the difference while watching on a 60" plasma. It's not horrible as mentioned before but it's still evident until they reach skull island.

Atleast it only seems to be in the first ~1/4 (right Paul?) of the film which is great news. I'm still pumped, and cant wait to hear that DTS-MA!

paul nyc

01-10-09, 09:37 PM

lol:p maybe:)

Atleast it only seems to be in the first ~1/4 (right Paul?) of the film which is great news. I'm still pumped, and cant wait to hear that DTS-MA!

Yeah, as soon as it hits skull island, the DNR is much more difficult to see, at least via my eyes. The old lady with all the wrinkles just looks fantastic as do all the kong close ups.

The DTS-MA is outstanding. Holophonic soundfield really kicks in when they approach the island aboard the ship.

Elbie

01-10-09, 10:13 PM

Overreaction based upon screenshots...now that's the avsforum I know and love.
I agree. lol

Franin

01-10-09, 10:41 PM

Franin

01-10-09, 10:53 PM

Buford T. Justice - The "Smokey" in Smokey and the Bandit (The immortal Jackie Gleason)
Barney Fife - The Deputy in "The Andy Griffith Show" (not allowed to carry a loaded gun, and carries single bullet in his pocket; Don Kotts)
Cheers!

Toe

01-10-09, 11:55 PM

Yeah, as soon as it hits skull island, the DNR is much more difficult to see, at least via my eyes. The old lady with all the wrinkles just looks fantastic as do all the kong close ups.

The DTS-MA is outstanding. Holophonic soundfield really kicks in when they approach the island aboard the ship.

Nice:cool: Thanks for all the impressions. Cant wait. The DD+ is still one of my absolute favorite tracks on HD media and the DTS-MA can only improve on it from the sounds of it. :)

giantchicken

01-11-09, 12:27 AM

I have to be the only guy around here who thinks that DNR stands for "Don't Notice, Really."

FoxyMulder

01-11-09, 08:56 AM

Yes exactly. Most of the screen shots that are posted on this forum are not zoomed in. You can notice the DNR on 60" display pretty easily while the movie is running. It only gets worse on bigger screens.

It really dismays me when i read comments saying nothing is perfect it's just minor and we can ignore it because there is a fabulous DTS-MA soundtrack on the disc. Or hey i don't care about the DNR because they gave us the extended addition.

C'mon folks we should be asking for perfection or demanding as near to perfection as possible and at the very least if a transfer in HD already exists we should be asking for a Blu release which is just as detailed and not one which has had additional DNR applied ( if it has had this done )

If it has had additional DNR work done to it then why not complain about it so next time around they don't pull that trick on people.

I did look at the image supplied on this thread and Naomi's face looks almost smeary and lacking detail in the Blu Ray version....I can only hope this is not representative of the entire disc and as benes has already said is merely that the I frames didn't match up.

For those who continually enter threads such as these and do not seem at all bothered by DNR then i can only say three things....No make that four things....

1) You are not sensitive to the problem
2) You don't care because it's a huge upgrade from the DVD edition
3) You worked on the transfer or know someone who did thus are defending it
4) Your viewing distance to the screen is so great that issues are never noticed

My disappointment stems from the fact the HD DVD edition has more detail according to the AVS member who has viewed that one and the Blu Ray...If that is true then it's The Thing all over again...

These are just my initial thoughts and without seeing more evidence to compare both transfers i can't comment further.

lgans316

01-11-09, 09:58 AM

My disappointment stems from the fact the HD DVD edition has more detail according to the AVS member who has viewed that one and the Blu Ray...If that is true then it's The Thing all over again....

I am just waiting for few more members to confirm that the BD looks identical or better than the HD DVD. I hope UNI didn't botch this one with DNR. UNI should not compromise on titles like this which has the potential to look awesome and sell well over a period of time. :confused:

Toe

01-11-09, 12:36 PM

It really dismays me when i read comments saying nothing is perfect it's just minor and we can ignore it because there is a fabulous DTS-MA soundtrack on the disc. Or hey i don't care about the DNR because they gave us the extended addition.

C'mon folks we should be asking for perfection or demanding as near to perfection as possible and at the very least if a transfer in HD already exists we should be asking for a Blu release which is just as detailed and not one which has had additional DNR applied ( if it has had this done )

If it has had additional DNR work done to it then why not complain about it so next time around they don't pull that trick on people.

I did look at the image supplied on this thread and Naomi's face looks almost smeary and lacking detail in the Blu Ray version....I can only hope this is not representative of the entire disc and as benes has already said is merely that the I frames didn't match up.

For those who continually enter threads such as these and do not seem at all bothered by DNR then i can only say three things....No make that four things....

1) You are not sensitive to the problem
2) You don't care because it's a huge upgrade from the DVD edition
3) You worked on the transfer or know someone who did thus are defending it
4) Your viewing distance to the screen is so great that issues are never noticed

My disappointment stems from the fact the HD DVD edition has more detail according to the AVS member who has viewed that one and the Blu Ray...If that is true then it's The Thing all over again...

These are just my initial thoughts and without seeing more evidence to compare both transfers i can't comment further.

And I am disappointed as well, BUT we have a choice at this point. I have expressed my dissapointment, but I am going to CHOOSE to see the glass half full and focus on the good points of this release and enjoy it as it is one of my favorite films and one of my favorite HD media experiences (going off the HD-DVD). The other choice we all have at the end of the day after we have expressed our dissatisfaction (and I am with you there) is to let these relatively minor issues (in light of the whole package) hurt our experience to one degree or another. The fact is this is the best version of the EE KONG available on HD media, and I know it is not all that it could be, but it is MUCH better than not having it at all. Two choices and I know which one I am going to choose;)

I agree with you that it is important to voice our dissatisfaction, but it is also important to keep things in perspective and not let one wart destroy the experience for us (to whatever degree) and to also see all the good points as well and ultimately focus on those.

DrDon

01-11-09, 12:46 PM

some off topic comments removed

jayray

01-11-09, 06:21 PM

Just finished watching KK on BD.

1. DTS-MA worth the wait. LFE has more punch than my HDDVD DD+.
2. Detail is improved and the surrounds are more active. Check out the Empire State building scene, the planes sound amazing.
3. As for the picture. I did not purposely look for EE etc. but the video is excellent. Perhaps slightly more detailed than HD DVD but even that is hard to tell given I am now watching it on a better pj.
I got it for the improvement in sound. For video it is not worth a double dip IMO.
John

Franin

01-11-09, 07:48 PM

Toe

01-11-09, 08:11 PM

Franin

01-11-09, 08:24 PM

Nice:) One more week.....

I'm hoping for this week!

Toe

01-11-09, 08:49 PM

I'm hoping for this week!

lol:p I know. I actualy went by Best Buy today just to see if they happened to throw this out which they have done a few times before with other titles at the one near my house. No luck though, but I am by there all the time so who knows may get lucky!

butsu

01-11-09, 08:51 PM

I'm hoping for this week!King KONG BD in DTS-HD MA with extened uncut,I can't wait too.:):)

eweiss

01-11-09, 09:01 PM

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDReviews21/king_kong_2005_dvd_review.htm

Thankfully, it apparently doesn't push the red too high to increase "detail," as was done in The 7th Voyage of Sinbad Blu-Ray and others.

Too bad all the featurettes are dropped from the BD.

PWNKAKE

01-11-09, 09:02 PM

lol:p I know. I actualy went by Best Buy today just to see if they happened to throw this out which they have done a few times before with other titles at the one near my house. No luck though, but I am by there all the time so who knows may get lucky!

Same here. When KK first came out on HD-DVD i was just floored by the transfer, and the audio. Now that i've watched a good few movies in DTS-HD-MA i am spoiled. I popped in the KK HD-DVD the other day and was dissapointed by the flat sounding DD... i have truly been spoiled. Can't wait for this DTS-HD Track. As soon as i get it, i'll be having a movie night for sure!

Favelle

01-11-09, 10:57 PM

No, you're absolutely right. Absolutely. Studio's should in fact keep going with the DNR until it is far more obvious so that people like you (the average person who doesn't care) will be easily able to spot it.

I think screen shots do people like you a dis-service. How dare someone take the time to get two identical frames from two different media, upload them and then have the audacity to let you judge for yourself any differences. It is absolutely within your right to come to a post like this and criticise people for making their own judgements as they see them. Furthermore, your time has been wasted, right? As you say, you can "barely see any difference", which means you must have really, really looked hard - and that's not easy. We're sorry for that.

No, it's people like *you* who we should all listen to. Please post your next sage advice so that those misguided amongst us who appreciate the efforts of people who post screen shots can learn and correct our clearly ridiculous ways.

LMAO. That kicked ass. "How dare you people join an audio/visual forum to discuss things that Johnny Mainstream wouldn't even think about?"...

Roflcopter.

Favelle

01-11-09, 11:02 PM

Does anyone think maybe the DNR at the beginning was done on purpose? Artistic integrity? Make the image of "old-time" New York more soft?

Wishful thinking?

davcole

01-11-09, 11:11 PM

I'm betting that the DTSMA is a reference track!

Dave Mack

01-11-09, 11:19 PM

Does anyone think maybe the DNR at the beginning was done on purpose? Artistic integrity? Make the image of "old-time" New York more soft?

Wishful thinking?

I was wondering if when prepping the EE, jackson just used some tools for a different look in certain shots.

DavidHir

01-11-09, 11:36 PM

I have no issues if it was Jackson's decision, but how do we know it was his decision?

Dave Mack

01-11-09, 11:56 PM

I hear ya, Dave. Just wondering if that's a possible scenario.

PWNKAKE

01-12-09, 12:06 AM

I'm wondering if there is a difference in the two versions on this disc as well. Maybe more DNR in the EE while the theatrical is the same encode as the HD-DVD? Just wondering. Will be nice to have the disc and see for myself. :)

eric.exe

01-12-09, 12:07 AM

Does anyone think maybe the DNR at the beginning was done on purpose? Artistic integrity? Make the image of "old-time" New York more soft?

Wishful thinking?

I've seen a proper comparison and there is no additional DNR. They look pretty much identical, maybe with a slight edge to the Blu-ray because the higher bitrate during action scenes.

Favelle

01-12-09, 01:55 AM

I have no issues if it was Jackson's decision, but how do we know it was his decision?

He's pretty in tune with the "net community". I'm sure he'd give out such info willingly, so you can be assured it would make its way around to AVS. If you hear nothing of it, then consider it Universal's "gift" to us.;)

AlexBC

01-12-09, 07:45 AM

I've seen a proper comparison and there is no additional DNR. They look pretty much identical, maybe with a slight edge to the Blu-ray because the higher bitrate during action scenes.

Could you please post a link to it?

lgans316

01-12-09, 09:02 AM

paul nyc

01-12-09, 09:18 AM

Deviation

01-12-09, 09:44 AM

Dave Mack

01-12-09, 01:07 PM

paging dr. Xylon... Dr. Xylon...

eric.exe

01-12-09, 05:29 PM

Comparison created by someone else, reposting with permission. (The filenames have a .mkv extention because the container was changed for easier HTPC playback, they are not re-encoded).

Blu-ray_____________HD DVD______________Blu-ray_____________HD DVD
http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/b5addb23247695.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b5addb23247695)http://thumbnails4.imagebam.com/2325/bb7d0e23247697.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/bb7d0e23247697) http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2325/dfa51723247701.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/dfa51723247701)http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2325/49ca6623247702.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/49ca6623247702)
http://thumbnails7.imagebam.com/2325/19c7ea23247703.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/19c7ea23247703)http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/6c38d223247705.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6c38d223247705) http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/2325/eddf1a23247706.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/eddf1a23247706)http://thumbnails3.imagebam.com/2325/c19c3723247707.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c19c3723247707)
http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/ac3bf423247711.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/ac3bf423247711)http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/2325/c3869823247716.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c3869823247716) http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/c00cd923247725.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c00cd923247725)http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/2325/2747a923247726.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/2747a923247726)
http://thumbnails11.imagebam.com/2325/97830123247729.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/97830123247729)http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/2325/8606b523247731.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/8606b523247731) http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/35888a23247733.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/35888a23247733)http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2325/51015523247735.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/51015523247735)
http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/62d96423247737.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/62d96423247737)http://thumbnails5.imagebam.com/2325/e715c923247740.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e715c923247740) http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2325/2b6c2a23247741.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/2b6c2a23247741)http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/2325/4ebaf323247742.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/4ebaf323247742)
http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2325/e3e67b23247743.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e3e67b23247743)http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/42242523247745.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/42242523247745) http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/2325/266a7f23247747.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/266a7f23247747)http://thumbnails11.imagebam.com/2325/51749023247749.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/51749023247749)
http://thumbnails11.imagebam.com/2325/21e17923247750.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/21e17923247750)http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2325/d3e91723247754.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d3e91723247754) http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/0d756923247755.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0d756923247755)http://thumbnails12.imagebam.com/2325/fe286e23247757.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/fe286e23247757)
http://thumbnails4.imagebam.com/2325/67305f23247759.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/67305f23247759)http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/6b1cbe23247761.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6b1cbe23247761) http://thumbnails11.imagebam.com/2325/3de29223247763.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/3de29223247763)http://thumbnails5.imagebam.com/2325/92e72c23247764.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/92e72c23247764)
http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/cf049d23247765.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cf049d23247765)http://thumbnails5.imagebam.com/2325/c3994a23247768.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c3994a23247768) http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/2325/6749c923247769.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/6749c923247769)http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/13b6fb23247770.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/13b6fb23247770)
http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2325/8cfa2f23247772.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/8cfa2f23247772)http://thumbnails6.imagebam.com/2325/83071823247773.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/83071823247773) http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/2325/e17bec23247774.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e17bec23247774)http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2325/7b9c4223247778.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7b9c4223247778)
http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/7e4e5723247779.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7e4e5723247779)http://thumbnails8.imagebam.com/2325/980d9c23247782.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/980d9c23247782) http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/2325/facbd823247786.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/facbd823247786)http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/2325/cc29ec23247789.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cc29ec23247789)
http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/a1d0d723247790.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/a1d0d723247790)http://thumbnails11.imagebam.com/2325/1bc41c23247793.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1bc41c23247793) http://thumbnails5.imagebam.com/2325/9b30f623247795.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/9b30f623247795)http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/81362b23247799.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/81362b23247799)
http://thumbnails3.imagebam.com/2325/0de0b623247803.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0de0b623247803)http://thumbnails5.imagebam.com/2325/a0ba2523247808.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/a0ba2523247808) http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2325/e8058223247811.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e8058223247811)http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/2325/57599923247812.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/57599923247812)
http://thumbnails5.imagebam.com/2325/e9284823247817.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e9284823247817)http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/e5675d23247818.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e5675d23247818) http://thumbnails7.imagebam.com/2325/b6656023247822.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b6656023247822)http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/29007523247827.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/29007523247827)

Kram Sacul

01-12-09, 05:47 PM

The HD-DVD looks better in a few shots, the BD looks better in like 1 or 2, and in most of them it's pretty much equal.

DavidHir

01-12-09, 05:49 PM

It seems like in the scenes where the actors were more stationary, the HD DVD is a hair better; on scenes where there was action going on, the BD is a hair better. All in all, both seem about equal. Makes me feel better as I'm really looking forward to this one.

Toe

01-12-09, 05:57 PM

They are identical for all practical purposes. Now if I can just find a copy early!

FoxyMulder

01-12-09, 06:00 PM

I haven't checked every single image but checked most of them out but these two have had DNR done to them.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/1bc41c23247793

http://www.imagebam.com/image/35888a23247733

No idea whether those images are Blu Ray or HD DVD but they are missing the finer grain structure that the other still frame of those shots has.

Some of the other still frames look identical to me so maybe most of the film is.

Kram Sacul

01-12-09, 06:16 PM

The BD has noticeable "smoothening" compared to the HD-DVD in these shots:

http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/ac3bf423247711.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/ac3bf423247711)

http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/c00cd923247725.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c00cd923247725)

http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/35888a23247733.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/35888a23247733)

http://thumbnails11.imagebam.com/2325/21e17923247750.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/21e17923247750)

http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/0d756923247755.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0d756923247755)

http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/2325/facbd823247786.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/facbd823247786)

Maybe Mr. Hanky can do image analysises

BD is clearly better here:

http://thumbnails.imagebam.com/2325/e8058223247811.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e8058223247811)

eric.exe

01-12-09, 06:18 PM

The BD has noticeable "smoothening" compared to the HD-DVD in these shots: I think that's just VC1 doing it's thing.

MovieSwede

01-12-09, 06:19 PM

I think that's just VC1 doing it's thing.

What thing? And why isnt it on the HD DVD then?

FoxyMulder

01-12-09, 06:28 PM

That first shot is from the HDDVD and actually looks better on the BD:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/a1d0d723247790

While the second shot is from the BD and looks better on the HDDVD:
http://www.imagebam.com/image/51015523247735

I don't think this is "DNR" we are seeing. Its just the tiny differences in two separate video encodes from the same source.

It's DNR - Check out the background detail and you will see the grain is a mess on both those shots while it is fine and untampered with in the comparison stills. I have no doubt it's DNR which means some scenes look better on HD DVD while some scenes look better on Blu Ray.....Maybe its The Mummy all over again only not as bad.

Toe

01-12-09, 06:31 PM

The BD has noticeable "smoothening" compared to the HD-DVD in these shots:

http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/ac3bf423247711.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/ac3bf423247711)

http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/c00cd923247725.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/c00cd923247725)

http://thumbnails2.imagebam.com/2325/35888a23247733.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/35888a23247733)

http://thumbnails11.imagebam.com/2325/21e17923247750.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/21e17923247750)

http://thumbnails13.imagebam.com/2325/0d756923247755.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0d756923247755)

http://thumbnails10.imagebam.com/2325/facbd823247786.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/facbd823247786)

Maybe Mr. Hanky can do image analysises

Maybe noticable to you. I simply cant tell them apart going back and forth with my eyes on my monitor.

hastic plank

01-12-09, 06:36 PM

What thing? And why isnt it on the HD DVD then?

The HD DVD encode was reportedly highly hand-tuned.

The BD one.. not so much it seems. The encoder must've allocated much more bits for the scenes where it looks better. Anyway, the encode should've had a much higher bitrate. They left 10gb free on the disc and by my calculations they could've increased the bitrate to 22-23mbit and it would've still fit the bd50.

FoxyMulder

01-12-09, 06:47 PM

So that means both versions are DNR'ed? Why would some shots be DNRed on one encode while different shots are DNRed on the other encode? I think we are just looking for things that aren't there. Remember these are (extremely) lossy video encodes. You can get different results each time you encode from the same source.

Why wouldn't they be.....The exact same thing happened with The Mummy. Indeed various Universal transfers to Blu Ray have had additional work carried out on them. You say we are looking for things which aren't there but the still shots clearly show it....It's there.

Just check out the background grain structure in those two shots i linked and you can see it. Whether it's in other shots i don't know but it's just an observation and it doesn't mean i'm saying the transfer is bad.

It only means select scenes have had different levels of DNR applied on both encodes and it doesn't mean it's an awful transfer.

IanRW

01-12-09, 07:01 PM

maybe noticable to you. I simply cant tell them apart going back and forth with my eyes on my monitor.

+1

Hughmc

01-12-09, 07:39 PM

Maybe noticable to you. I simply cant tell them apart going back and forth with my eyes on my monitor.

I am looking at the comparison shots on my 60 in display from 7 ft from my HTPC and there is NO discernable difference in any of the shots. I always look for the fine, less noticeable details when doing these comparisons, yet with these shots there are no differences in those details.

Toe

01-12-09, 07:42 PM

I am looking at the comparison shots on my 60 in display from 7 ft from my HTPC and there is NO discernable difference in any of the shots. I always look for the fine, less noticeable details when doing these comparisons, yet with these shots there are no differences in those details.

Thanks. Atleast I know I am not crazy!:p

FoxyMulder

01-12-09, 08:26 PM

I'm not arguing whether DNR was applied to the original source (in fact I think it was). What you're saying is that the HDDVD had DNR on scenes 1,3,5 while for the blu-ray they went back to the source and applied DNR to scenes 2,4,6 instead. Is that about right?

As far as the scenes shown in this thread i am saying i noticed a difference on two of them - In one the HD DVD is more detailed and the fine grain is intact while in the same Blu Ray frame it is not intact and the grain structure and detail is gone while in the other scene the Blu Ray is more detailed and the HD DVD is not.

Whether this happens a lot during the film i cannot say but i noticed it in those two scenes as posted in this thread.

I am looking at the comparison shots on my 60 in display from 7 ft from my HTPC and there is NO discernable difference in any of the shots. I always look for the fine, less noticeable details when doing these comparisons, yet with these shots there are no differences in those details.

Look again as it's very clear even on a small 17inch monitor.

ILJG

01-12-09, 08:51 PM

The BD one.. not so much it seems. The encoder must've allocated much more bits for the scenes where it looks better. Anyway, the encode should've had a much higher bitrate. They left 10gb free on the disc and by my calculations they could've increased the bitrate to 22-23mbit and it would've still fit the bd50.

Since our own eyes and ears are no longer the determinants of AV quality, what's the acceptable amount of free space on a 50 GIG disc to be sure a movie "looks" and "sounds" good? What are the acceptable min/max/avg bitrates for audio and video to be sure we're not accepting garbage?

eric.exe

01-12-09, 09:05 PM

Since our own eyes and ears are no longer the determinants of AV quality, what's the acceptable amount of free space on a 50 GIG disc to be sure a movie "looks" and "sounds" good? What are the acceptable min/max/avg bitrates for audio and video to be sure we're not accepting garbage? I think the general consensus (and from wasting way too much time looking at screenshots) is that for a VC1 or AVC encoded video you want the average video bitrate to be at least 20Mbps. At that point there shouldn't be any major image quality issues. But 25-30 Mbps is probably the sweet spot, most BDs with average bitrates in that range are free of noticeable artifacting, grain resolving, and banding issues. There's lots of variables, like quality of the encoder, skill of the compressionist, etc but I think I listed reasonable averages.

Kram Sacul

01-12-09, 09:26 PM

200% crop fun time. Which side is better defined?

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3736/kkfabricux0.png

Hughmc

01-12-09, 09:43 PM

It's DNR - Check out the background detail and you will see the grain is a mess on both those shots while it is fine and untampered with in the comparison stills. I have no doubt it's DNR which means some scenes look better on HD DVD while some scenes look better on Blu Ray.....Maybe its The Mummy all over again only not as bad.

For the record those two shots from the second link you provided are NOT the same frame, close maybe a frame off, but not the same frame. I have been using those for comparisons and have spent the last half hour trying to determine a difference.

I see what you are saying about the grain gone, but the detail certainly isn't. Look at small details, like the buckles on the trunk of the car or other fine details like patterns on the buildings. Now look at the wedding ring on the guy close to the car. In the HD DVD shot it is slightly more clear and slightly more blurry in the BD shot. The problem is being a different frame and motion, how do we know what is blur and what is filmed in focus more or less, frame to frame, shot to shot, format to format. We don't.

I think this is another example of why caps in general are a poor example of comparisons between the two. There are too many variables from the transfers themselves to the end process of screen caps.

I know, caps give us a good idea what to expect in general, but they certainly are not the definitive 100 accurate representation of what we are seeing on the discs.

At the end of the day after seeing these shots my guess would be the HD DVD and BD will look virtually identical and 99.99 percent of viewers wouldn't be able to tell the difference. More importantly, it really only matters to a few here who own both and want to see if there is a difference. SUre it may matter to other videophiles who want "the best", but what we get and want we want only leaves us with complaining about what think we should get, since we get the BD the way it is. :)

What really makes the point for me about caps being iffy at best is the recent caps I have seen from forum member ricwhite. He posted caps of Golden Compass and other films in the tier thread that were the same frames Xylon posted in the Golden Compass and other cap threads. The same exact frame and shots, yet they looked quite different in terms of color, clarity, etc. I am sure Xylon is providing us exactly what he is seeing and is able to in his screen caps, but they were and are not what I see on my setup most often in terms of color clarity and so on. ricwhites are the same as I see. :confused: ric has a projector and I have a 60 inch RPTV. I would have thought the colors and PQ in general would look different, but astonishingly they most often look exactly the same.