I currently have an Infocus 7210 which is about 1100 lumens calibrated and I would like to find a 1080p PJ that has similar calibrated brightness. I like bright PJ and would prefer one that I can add an ND filter like the Infocus for dark room viewing. My room is a media/multi-purpose room where the lights are often on during sports shows or when my kids are playing video games and I really need this brightness. My bulb is 2/3 finished its life and the brightness is now marginal - even in high power mode.

Room is completely light controlled. I have a Firehawk 96" screen.

I am looking for something that is quiet (noise is the only complaint I have with the Infocus) and that offers excellent contrast. Rainbows don't affect me, so DLP is probably preferred. I have not looked recently, but LCD screen door effect (Sony HS51) gave me a serious head ache when I was demoing PJs several years ago, which is why I bought the 7210.

I use an external VP, so internal processing is a don't care for me.

Budget must be under $8K.

I have time, so if there is something on the horizon that is not available yet, I would be interested in that as well.

TIA,
Steve

Coming from the SP-7210 I thought I'd chip in, though I'm certainly no expert here. I had a much tighter budget, and I moved to the BenQ W5000 and found the brightness as appealing as the 7210, perhaps not specwise an exact match, but I didn't feel like I lost anything in that regards with the move.

The best thing was keeping that DLP look in the transition to 1080p, with all of it's glorious sharpness. As good as a lens the 7210 has, the W5000 was like putting on glasses, crystal clear (and arguably the sharpest 1080p PJ, in some opinion's to its detriment).

I also had a 96" screen (Black Widow), that combination gave me wonderful contrast/blacks that felt improved from the 7210 (subjective, I know). It also is quieter than the InFocus (that thing was a monster!) especially in whisper mode. All in all, it felt like an upgrade in every category, and I haven't missed anything the 7210 offered, as great a PJ as it was.

I think if you turn BC (Brilliant Color) on, with the W5000 you would have enough light for sports and gaming, while turning it off you'd have your accurate movie mode for light controlled settings.

Now, seeing your budget you could perhaps look at the W20000 with the same DC3 chip in the 7210, and take advantage of some better contrast ratings.

Of course you could also look at DLP's closer to the 6-8K range (maybe some DC4s?), and obviously the JVC line is highly regarded and can put some light out in many cases as well. I thought I'd let you know my experience though, to add to your consideration.

What about another Infocus? IN83 is bright and a nice projector.

Agreed, hard to beat the IN83 for brightness. And to a slightly lesser extent the IN82/81. The IN83 also has an adjustable iris, so you can adjust the brightness with the need of an ND filter.

Screen door is not much of any issue for LCD anymore with 1080P, but none can match calibrated light output of the IN83.

not to beat a dead horse but you can get a superior image and even more brightness by picking a higher contrast projector (that isn't limiting it's quality by focusing on horsepower) and match it with a higher gain screen.

Take a RS20 (30,000:1) and match with a Da-Light High Power and walla' you now have about 1500 lumens and a superior projector that's near silent.

Much cheaper to gain brightness with a screen than a projector!

Dont get me wrong. I think we would all like much brighter projectors, but they just dont seem to be being produced right now without paying through the nose

Tryg -

I appreciate your input on the new screen, but, for me, it will be too hard to justify to the wife the need for a new screen AND a new PJ. I can sell her on the 1080P thing and all that, but I am quite sure she won't go for the whole deal.

Also, I don't have a cave (dark wall and all). It is a multi-purpose room with pool table, air hockey, etc. which is why I purchased the Firehawk screen. In my opinion it does a very good job for what it was intended. I am not sure how well a high-power screen would work with light colored walls and ceiling.

I get the whole idea of more contrast is better and you do not need as bright (i.e. lumens output) a PJ. This is very true. I used to sell FPD to our fine Military for use in outdoor applications (sunlight readable) and I could demo our product relative to a competitor that claimed a higher luminance (cd/m2) and we would blow them away every time - even with a 15% lower luminance specification. Most would not believe it, until they see it.

With that being said, I am interested in the R20, but I need to see one because I am very sensitive to motion blur and it is my understanding that LCOS projectors suffer from this effect. Rainbows - no problem, LCD motion blur - I cannot watch it, even "120 Hz" LCDs look terrible to me for any type of action movie or sporting event.

For TVs, it is plasma for me and so far I have been happy with DLP PJ.

I saw the IN83, but I would like a better CR, without the need for an iris. One option, if the iris is electronically controllable via remote, is that I could program two profiles in my Marantz RC9500 (movie and sports/game mode), where i could preset the iris position, depending on what was selected . I will need to look into this further.

My system needs to be fully automated so my kids and wife can operate it, without incident, when I am out of town. I hate the calls on my cell when I am out of town from my wife saying that it is not working and me trying to step her through the process of figuring out what went wrong.

If it is not a one button "on" and one button "off" process, it will not work in my house.

Tryg -

II saw the IN83, but I would like a better CR, without the need for an iris. One option, if the iris is electronically controllable via remote, is that I could program two profiles in my Marantz RC9500 (movie and sports/game mode), where i could preset the iris position, depending on what was selected . I will need to look into this further.



I'm not sure if I understood you correctly, but I have an IN83 and you can indeed control the iris via the remote. It's hard to beat for it's brightness and sharpness IMO.

Mark

Also, I don't have a cave (dark wall and all). It is a multi-purpose room with pool table, air hockey, etc. which is why I purchased the Firehawk screen. In my opinion it does a very good job for what it was intended. I am not sure how well a high-power screen would work with light colored walls and ceiling.

It's possible a HP would be better in that situation than a Firehawk. Though I'm sure an HP expert can comment on that.

I get the whole idea of more contrast is better and you do not need as bright (i.e. lumens output) a PJ. This is very true. I used to sell FPD to our fine Military for use in outdoor applications (sunlight readable) and I could demo our product relative to a competitor that claimed a higher luminance (cd/m2) and we would blow them away every time - even with a 15% lower luminance specification. Most would not believe it, until they see it.

That's not really what Tryg was saying, he was saying that if you're willing to buy a higher gain screen, you can get the same brightness (ftL) with a dimmer projector, thus allowing you to get one with better contrast.

With that being said, I am interested in the R20, but I need to see one because I am very sensitive to motion blur and it is my understanding that LCOS projectors suffer from this effect. Rainbows - no problem, LCD motion blur - I cannot watch it, even "120 Hz" LCDs look terrible to me for any type of action movie or sporting event.

For TVs, it is plasma for me and so far I have been happy with DLP PJ.

I saw the IN83, but I would like a better CR, without the need for an iris.

I assume you mean Dynamic Iris. If that's the case, I'm affraid the JVC is about your only option. I haven't seen any DLP that has significantly higher CR. JVC is the only one who seems capable of much over 5k:1 without a DI (a couple DLPs can hit 6-8k, but only at very low lumens).

With that being said, I am interested in the R20, but I need to see one because I am very sensitive to motion blur and it is my understanding that LCOS projectors suffer from this effect. Rainbows - no problem, LCD motion blur - I cannot watch it, even "120 Hz" LCDs look terrible to me for any type of action movie or sporting event.

For TVs, it is plasma for me and so far I have been happy with DLP PJ.

Sounds like you're pretty settled on DLP. Stick with what works? I would try to go demo some recent LCoS just to be sure it's something you can't handle and rule it out confidently.


I saw the IN83, but I would like a better CR, without the need for an iris.

Just out of curiosity, how happy are you with the 7210 currently? With a relatively small jump from that to my W5000, even technically downgrading from a DC3 to a DC2, I'm a very impressed with the contrast I'm now getting.

I cannot imagine in any way that the DC4 based IN83 would disappoint you in that transition. :)

Also, numbers for numbers, the W20000 is "dimmer" but with better ANSI and On/Off contrast. This could be rectified with a high gain screen (well within your proposed budget) as Tryg suggested. The W20000 also employs an auto-iris (DynamicBlack) and vertical lens shift, though since the 7210 lacks this, I don't know if it's a necessity or interest. Just some thoughts.

Just out of curiosity, how happy are you with the 7210 currently? With a relatively small jump from that to my W5000, even technically downgrading from a DC3 to a DC2, I'm a very impressed with the contrast I'm now getting.

The DLP chip designations on the 720p and 1080p DMDs are not comparable, TI started over again with 1 with the introduction of 1080p DMDs. I.e. going from a DC3 720p to a DC1 or DC2 1080p is not a downgrade in any sense.


Regarding the IN83 and contrast. Like stated previously in this thread; you won't find any other projector with significantly better contrast if you don't go with either an LCD/SXRD with a dynamic iris or with a JVC without.

There isn't any projector with comparable brightness in best mode to the IN83 that have better contrast. The 3-chip DLPs for a lot more money (30k-) are brighter, but have comparable contrast ratios.)

(By the way, just to make it clear: The IN83 has an adjustable STATIC iris and not a dynamic one. That is, you can set the brightness level on the screen, but you won't get the pro's and con's of a dynamic iris.

The HP screen is a good suggestion but it does have some cons. Ceiling mounted PJs above the screen with shorter throws it is not the best choice. The HP is a retro-reflective screen which means the gain is reflected back towards the source (PJ). This is most beneficial the closer your eye height is to the projector. In general it works best for longer throw projectors and when you can place projector within the screen's height. If you have a shorter throw PJ then table mounted is usually better with the HP.

The other cons is viewing angle. If your seating is off to the sides the gain is significantly less. The further off angle you are (vertically or horizontally) the less the gain.

Your Firehawk by comparison is an angular-reflective screen and reflects light away from the source (PJ) similar to a mirror or a pool ball bouncing of the side of a pool table. Its gain is ~half the HP though. The lower the gain the wider the viewing angle but the higher the gain the more light rejection from off angle sources like ambient light and reflections off walls, ceiling, etc.

You have to decide what is best for your situation. There are tradeoffs with everything:)

Bob

It sounds like the IN83 is the way to go for me.

I am very happy with the 7210, but I don't like the noise. The PJ is directly over my seating position, so I would prefer something that is quiet, at least much more so than my existing solution.

I will demo the IN83 and see how it looks and sounds. I also need to check if it can utilize a similar mounting position as the 7210.

Thanks again.

Is your screen 96" diagonal or 96" width. I ask because 96" diag is an odd size and 96" width - 110" diag is a common size. But people have custom sizes all the time. Either way it would depend where the 7210 is currently placed within its throw range.

For 96" diagonal

7210
~11' 6" - 14' 6" from the lens to the screen
~ 7 2/3" above the top of the screen

IN83
~12' 9" - 13' 4" the lens to the screen
~ 16 3/4" above the top of the screen

So depending where the 7210 is in its zoom range you might be OK. But that is a big offset difference of 9+ inches. So you IN83 would have to mounted 9" higher, the screen lowered 9", or some combination of the two.

For 110" diagonal

7210
~13' 4" - 16' 8" from the lens to the screen
~ 8 3/4" above the top of the screen

IN83
~14' 10" - 17' 9" the lens to the screen
~ 19 1/3" above the top of the screen

10+ inch offset difference

Hope this helps

Bob

I made the move from a SP7210 to a IN83. Very happy I did. I have a HCCV grey screen at 106'' diag and sit 14.5 ft back. What a difference! I had to use a whisper box for the 7210 because it was mounted 5 feet above my head. No problem with the IN83. I would guess it is about half of the DB level of the 7210. The picture, 3D and color pop and detailed sharpness are fantastic. I brought home a RS-1x and compared side be side and the IN83 pushed my button and the JVC didnt. Maybe it is just because I am use to DLP and the better sharpness and brightness. With the Iris at 100 this almost looks like a 106'' plasma hanging on the wall. I usually run it at 55 Iris for TV and 45 for DVDs depending on lighting in the room. I never sit in a totally dark room. I had the problem of the offset and mounting. I had to mount at 8'. My screen is a perm mount screen. So what I did to fix the keystone was shimmy the top of my screen out 1.5''. No keystoning, perfect picture and screen shimmy unnoticed. The Iris adjustment on the fly is fantastic for different lighting situations and the black levels and shadow detail are great.
Would I do it again, yes. Just my two cents worth.