Meridian was in town for a one day demo of the MF10 which was in fact the RS20 fully modified my William Phelps. The had the projector on a Vutec 6.0 screen 10 feet wide. I was amped up all day just wanting to see this thing. It was a disapointment the colors were off, and the stupid screen made a haze on the image sort of like watching a big TV. It was bright, but who cares, black level did not seem special at all. I am blamimg everything on the stupid screen except the colors....DLP seems better to me. I am very concerned now about my JVC purchase. This was Wiliam Phelps calibrated and this is there showcase projector.....When the announcer asked what everyone thought , everyone was quiet except me questioning the glare and got some bizarre answer about cinescope a local friend and CRT user joined in saying the colors looked off. Announcer seemed baffled, I guess they hope to sell to the 90% of the people that do not know any better.

Joey

When will everyone understand the RS20 is a basically a little brighter RS2 with Color Managment... Not a huge upgrade. ;) (Most won't even have the tools or know how to get the CMS to work)

A lot on the forum are again thinking this is the second coming of Jesus.

Yes it will still be a super good projector, just not the end all that everyone is making it out to be.

All though the screen choice was a bad decision unless there were a lot of ambient light.


*update*

MF10 is a Cherry Picked RS2

I believe the Meridian is a RS2 not a RS20

Just goes to show that anything can be made to look bad. Even Megan Fox can be made to look bad but like the RS20 I'd still shag it :) I hope to see how a Meridian compares with a stock RS20 sometime soon.

I believe the Meridian is a RS2 not a RS20

If it's based off an RS2 it may not even have the full Phelps Optimization. For awhile neither Wm, nor MF had access to the LUT's to do the full treatment. I know this has changed recently but not necessarily with this particular RS2.

i believe the meridian is a rs2 not a rs20

+1

I believe the Meridian is a RS2 not a RS20

Me too, RS2 and not the 750 or RS20. The lens was in the center of the case, Right ? In any case:) I think WM would have a $hit fit for demoing the Meridian on that screen.

Did they show the 4K ?

I spoke at length with the Meridian rep and he claimed that they needed the full CMS, so waited for the RS20 for this N.American DEMO. I will say it again it was an RS20. IT had much more lumens than the PIOneer (RS2 clone) that this dealer has in another room. Could be the screen could be the extra lumens of the RS20. I am so :mad:that they used that screen and skewed my decision on the JVC. I think I just going to wait for the LED based DLP. So there is another JVC fully calibrated, for you guys that want it. :(day for me

They showed HD Nascar racing clip and Transformers clip. Neither looked great When I later compained, one of the reps he stated that the LCOS projectors aren't as sharp as the DLP, and that the Infocus Projector that they also showcase with Meridian has better blacks. So they totally confused me...No 4K material

Joey - was the lens in the center of the projector or offset?

Joey, in your first post you said they were showing the MF 10 model. I think if you check it out the Meridian MF10 IS a re-badged RS2.

This going to be like someone telling most of you that I saw your girlfriend out with another guy....but you just won't believe it..

ONE MORE TIME...IT WAS AN RS20...MERIDIAN GOT ONE BEFORE AVS....shouldn't be to hard to believe.

FYI I was very adamant about this since I was on the pre buy!!

Jason is definitely going to have his work cut for him..to make this look perfect IMO.

... about my girl friend :).I believe it. You really saw her there too ?

It was the RS2. Joey there are no RS20s in the states, not even Meridian have one.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/meridian-mf10-projector-jvc-dla-rs2-plus-ripoff

http://www.i4u.com/article15493.htmlhttp://gizmodo.com/367989/meridians-latest-1080p-projector-is-one-bad-mf10

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_0130.jpg

It was bright, but who cares, black level did not seem special at all.If it was an RS20 and there wasn't other lighting on then I think you should have asked them to close the iris down.

Seems a little strange that Meridian would keep the same model number for a new projector (MF10 for an RS2 and an RS20). Did they at least have some modifier (like MF10b) since you said it wasn't an RS2, therefore would be different than the MF10 Meridian has been selling.

--Darin

I would be very surprised if Meridian were able to have a model based on the rs20 before the rs20's were even available.

This going to be like someone telling most of you that I saw your girlfriend out with another guy....but you just won't believe it..

ONE MORE TIME...IT WAS AN RS20...MERIDIAN GOT ONE BEFORE AVS....shouldn't be to hard to believe.

FYI I was very adamant about this since I was on the pre buy!!

Jason is definitely going to have his work cut for him..to make this look perfect IMO.

Joey where did u see it? Was it at Fairview Electronics at Avenue Rd & Eglinton? If so (which i believe it is since it's the ONLY place Meridian showcases their products in Toronto) that IS an RS2 Meridian not the RS20.

What a process.....ONE rep was an individual from Meridian UK last name WEBB, the SECOND was the Canadian distributor and the THIRD was the rep for ISCO and SChiender lenses.


It was the RS2. Joey there are no RS20s in the states, not even Meridian have one. But they do have them in the UK...Soooo maybe this one got flown down with UK rep??? So your stating that the reps that are touring with this projector do not know what it is??? Like I stated previously they origiannly had an RS2 , but waited for the RS20 so WPhelps could do the full CMS.Maybe just contact Wphelps here and have him chime in...


Joey where did u see it? Was it at Fairview Electronics at Avenue Rd & Eglinton? If so (which i believe it is since it's the ONLY place Meridian showcases their products in Toronto) that IS an RS2 Meridian not the RS20.
__________________
Cheers
Chris

It was at Audio ARK in Edmonton and this is a traveling trio representing Meridian with a Main guy from Meridian UK...not BOb Stewart , but an underling...It is a one day event then they are off to another Province.....

So...did it look like the picture Alan posted above, or not? The physical differences between the two models (RS2 vs RS20) are not subtle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L1l002_3o8

JUST WATCH THIS VIDEO AND 5 SECONDS IN YOU WILL HEAR THIS COMMENT. That the UK is first to get these projectors. Now match this with my previous comments about the Meridian UK was there to showcase this as well as Cdn. reps. and hopefully you get the picture.

The projector that I viewed was identical to the ones in this video. Thanks for the large photo Alan It really made it obvious it was the one in this video...

Joey

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L1l002_3o8

JUST WATCH THIS VIDEO AND 5 SECONDS IN YOU WILL HEAR THIS COMMENT. That the UK is first to get these projectors. Now match this with my previous comments about the Meridian UK was there to showcase this as well as Cdn. reps. and hopefully you get the picture.

The projector that I viewed was identical to the ones in this video. The lens was the obvious giveaway...

Joey

I have seen the video when it was first aired and I am well aware that the JVCs were first showcased in the UK. The question is whether the Meridian you did see was in fact a modded RS-20. The obvious giveaways are the lens position (as you mentioned) and the side input panel. In any case, I don't have any reason to not take your word for it.. It is odd though, that they continue to use the same name for their new model..
One comment about colors: IMO there are no DLP, LCOS or LCD colors.. A projector can either be color accurate according to the Industry Standards or not. If the Meridian was correctly calibrated according to Rec. 709, then it might look undersaturated to the untrained eye, compared to the crazy oversaturated colors' trend of the latest projectors.
That does not mean that its color reproduction was problematic.
Just my 2 cents...

Seems to me since most who saw the RS-20 at cedia thought it was very good, there was just something amiss (maybe the screen) at this demo and therefore this should not be taken as the "normal" capability of the projector.

Now you guys see what crack does to a guy? Put the pipe away!

Joey,

The problem is, believe it or not, there have been many instances of people have talked to reps and come away with wrong information. So....



The projector that I viewed was identical to the ones in this video. Thanks for the large photo Alan It really made it obvious it was the one in this video...

Joey

Sorry, but this is still ambiguous.

In the video they showed 3 different projectors, including the older HD100 (or was it the HD1) which has the smaller lens in the middle. You haven't been truly specific yet so let's make this impossible to miss. Did the Meridian projector you saw look like this:

HD100

http://tv.jvc.com/images/products/DLA-HD100.jpg

Or this, with the bigger lens, off-set to the side and the narrower body:

HD750

http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/jvc-dla-hd750-and-dla-rs20-thx-certified-hd-projectors.jpg

Thanks.

But they do have them in the UK...Soooo maybe this one got flown down with UK rep???


Sorry, but this is inexact.

Factually first: there are NO production units of the RS-20 (HD-750) in the UK yet. Even the 350 haven't arrived yet, and are not expected until the 18th at the earliest. The first batch of 750 may arrive around the end of this month, will then go through JVC UK QC, and only then will be sent to dealers, so no-one is seriously expecting to receive one before the end of the month, more likely early December.

The only unit(s) around are pre-production units which have gone around the world more than once.

Subjectively: this being said, I would argue that EVEN if it was based on an RS2, if this is the image you got and the way you describe it, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with the setup/source/calibration/screen (or with your eyes, but let's rule this out:)).

I saw an RS2 (along with a pre-prod RS20, most likely the same that Ekkehart calls 2nd unit, so with the revised specs) in a very good demo room (quasi bat cave) and the same transformer clip, and it was nothing short of excellent (although the RS-20 managed to top it).

This RS2 was fully calibrated and all HD clips shown on a Studiotek 130 from a PS3 and Media Centre. The RS20 was in TX mode, out of the box. Every single person from the UK AV-Forum who attended the demo (most of them much more competent than myself) agreed to say the RS20 looked absolutely magnificent. Although compared to the others, it did look "undersaturated", but it was just the contrast between what looked like very close to Rec 709 compared to the oversaturated gamuts of the other models (RS1, RS2, and a reddish pre-prod RS10).

So I wouldn't jump to conclusions after one poorly prepared demo, most likely on an RS2 rather than an RS20 (which shouldn't explain in itself the bad results, or the RS2 wouldn't be such a highly rated model).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L1l002_3o8
Thanks for the large photo Alan It really made it obvious it was the one in this video...
Joey

The large photo posted by Alan is an RS2, NOT an RS20, so unless I'm confused (like Rich H) you've definitely seen an RS2...

I believe the following to be correct

These units use the older analog and lower contrast d-ila technology. Pre digital drive
JVC HD2K = Meridian MF2
JVC HD10K = Meridian MF1

Digital drive d-ila
JVC HD1/RS1 = no Meridian counterpart
JVC HD100/RS2 = Meridian MF10
JVC SH4K= Meridian 810
JVC HD750/RS20 = Meridian MFxx TBD?

You guys should of all been lawyers......but to be completety factual and honest, I am not able to truly discern to say which projector it was based on the "mugshots". I did not spend a lot of time looking up at the projector , but rather at the screen. I do attritrube this very bad performance of a highly regarded projector to the screen, and made that clear. However the colors seemed off; a yellow Sunoco sign in Nascar looked way off IMO.

One thing for sure is that digital (all digital ) still looks digital. I am not sure we have crossed the threshold. I guess I am back to my CRT blend project...by the time I finally get it done and perfectly converged digital should have surpassed analog:p (IN ALL ASPECTS)

One mans opinion is one mans opinion....enjoy your RS20's I truly hope they look different than what I experienced.

Sincerely,
JC

You guys should of all been lawyers......
In fact, some of 'em are. :) Thanks for putting up with the grilling in good humor.

If what you saw was a Meridian based upon a RS2 that gives a good explanation why you found some colors to be off. The RS2 is not color correct anless it is coupled with a VP with a CMS. Then the Silverstar did its "magic", not.

What earlier Meridians had that set them apart was wm shading routines. I hope this can be available again by Meridian even on digital drive d-ila based projectors.

One mans opinion is one mans opinion....enjoy your RS20's I truly hope they look different than what I experienced.


I don't think any of us would have reacted that way if you had expressed an opinion after having seen - without any doubt - a production, calibrated RS-20, in a good setup, and had decided it was not for you.

Pre-ordering is not to everyone's taste, and I did it because I was impressed by what I saw (so it was first hand, not a "blind" decision based on someone else's opinion). Waiting for a well demonstrated production unit is the only way to forge your opinion about the final product if you're not ready to jump on the ship early.

I personally do hope that my RS-20 looks like what I've seen, not what you've seen:). I was not defending it from a "fanboy" perspective, just because many people read this forum and use threads like this to form their opinion. If it doesn', I promise I'll post in this very thread:D

Your standards may be way above mine, so I entirely respect your opinion, but it's a bit sad to rule the RS-20 out without giving it a fair chance. This being said, it's entirely up to you, I don't own any JVC shares:)!

Thanks indeed for your good humour...

The RS20 is the Jesus Projector and let no one else tell you different... ;)

Hi JC,

If it was an MF10 then it's not based in the RS20, it's an RS2. It's not impossible that you saw an RS20 clone but I doubt it. If it was an RS20 clone and you can very easily tell by the offset (not centered) lens then it wasn't an MF10. A calibrated RS20 would have just about perfect colours.

The RS20 is the Jesus Projector and let no one else tell you different... ;)


The 2nd time I saw an RS20 it didn't look that great, I have no problems with people saying wht thay see, but in this case JC (mosy likely) didn't see an RS20.

The RS20 is the Jesus Projector and let no one else tell you different... ;)
Swok, I'm curious, what inspires you to write a post like this ?

What a process.....ONE rep was an individual from Meridian UK last name WEBB, the SECOND was the Canadian distributor and the THIRD was the rep for ISCO and SChiender lenses.



It was at Audio ARK in Edmonton and this is a traveling trio representing Meridian with a Main guy from Meridian UK...not BOb Stewart , but an underling...It is a one day event then they are off to another Province.....

I can't believe the demo was in Edmonton and I missed it. I really must watch these threads more closely! I wish i could have been there to give another opinion.

Swok, I'm curious, what inspires you to write a post like this ?

I suspect it was humor, poking fun at the tendency for folks around here to jump on a bandwagon and then get defensive when somebody points out the wagons wheels aren't made of gold...

I took it in the spirit it was (I believe) posted and laughed. Note the ;) in the original post.

Swok, I'm curious, what inspires you to write a post like this ?

The hype around this projector is actually Higher then the RS1. :eek:

To the OP:

How can you be surprised to have people question you like this when you make such sweeping statements that go against what every credible source has seen about this projector?

When you post inflammatory statements (and post in such a way to emphasize it as such) you will be questioned; in this case, likely proven incorrect.

Yep.

Everyone appreciates any reports we get on projectors we are interested in. But if you are going to start a thread derived from the claim you saw a "Fully Calibrated RS20" then...well...if the OP didn't really see an RS20 that's rather of central importance.

Hence the grilling.

Meridian was in town for a one day demo of the MF10 which was in fact the RS20 fully modified my William Phelps. The had the projector on a Vutec 6.0 screen 10 feet wide. I was amped up all day just wanting to see this thing. It was a disapointment the colors were off, and the stupid screen made a haze on the image sort of like watching a big TV. It was bright, but who cares, black level did not seem special at all. I am blamimg everything on the stupid screen except the colors....DLP seems better to me. I am very concerned now about my JVC purchase. This was Wiliam Phelps calibrated and this is there showcase projector.....When the announcer asked what everyone thought , everyone was quiet except me questioning the glare and got some bizarre answer about cinescope a local friend and CRT user joined in saying the colors looked off. Announcer seemed baffled, I guess they hope to sell to the 90% of the people that do not know any better.

Joey


FYI this is an RS2 based projector....NOT an RS20. Big difference.

The RS20 is the Jesus Projector and let no one else tell you different... ;)
But DO let us discover that the OP most likely didn't see an RS20. That has nothing to do with whether the RS20 is a Jesus Projector or not. It just has to do with what he actually saw.

FYI this is an RS2 based projector....NOT an RS20. Big difference.

Joey was in error as to which projector he saw, that's all.

No harm, no fault Joey :).

The RS20 is the Jesus Projector and let no one else tell you different... ;)

We heard you the first time.

But DO let us discover that the OP most likely didn't see an RS20. That has nothing to do with whether the RS20 is a Jesus Projector or not. It just has to do with what he actually saw.

We all know he saw an RS2, but regardless the RS2 should not have looked that way either.

In fact, some of 'em are. Thanks for putting up with the grilling in good humor.

No, thank you!!:)

Swok, I'm curious, what inspires you to write a post like this ?

Some One Who Knows just doesn't know some of us might find his remark offensive. I found it offensive, but then again, it's SOWK. :D

Some One Who Knows just doesn't know some of us might find his remark offensive. I found it offensive, but then again, it's SOWK. :D

It really shouldn't be offensive, the RS20 by all means, will still be the 2nd best not millionaire "consumer" priced projector... out on the market :cool:






*I really hope you guys don't take this serious. I just haven't caused a forum fued in a while. lol.

I also want everyone to know I'm joking in good faith, and not to cause emotional damage.

If I had the ability to use a projector anytime soon, I would take a serious look at the RS20.

CMS!
Super High ON/OFF!
Motorized Lens!
Lens Cover when turned off!
Little Better Lens then the RS2
Smaller and quieter then the RS2
Very reasonable price
Very bright as well

Whats really not to like, sure it may not work for everyone, but I see why its very popular.

I may get to calibrate one soon too! Please don't ask for Contrast Ratio as I don't have the proper tools for contrast readings (yet).

I may post grey scale tracking and CMS when done.

The audio ark web page "what's new" shows a picture of the projector http://audioark.com/

I wish I had known about this. I know some guys from audio ark and would have gone.

The audio ark web page "what's new" shows a picture of the projector http://audioark.com/

I wish I had known about this. I know some guys from audio ark and would have gone.


That should put the argument to rest. It is a picture of the Meridian RS2.

Yep, what we all suspected.

The RS20 is the Jesus Projector and let no one else tell you different... ;)

Oh yeah, perhaps that's why you rushed to put your Marantz 11S2 on sale now;)

The RS20 is the Jesus Projector and let no one else tell you different... ;)

Oh yeah, perhaps that's why you rushed to put your Marantz 11S2 on sale now;)

Now that IS funny! :eek::D

It looks like it was posted by someone who knows better than SOWK.

I know the projector and demo in question, and it is in FACT the Meridian RS2 clone. Although I didn't actually make it to the event, I deal with the shop that had this event quite regularly. I've had many conversations with them recently regarding the Meridian and the CIH presentation they were having on the 13th.

Well that shoots down 1 of the 2 premises of the title of the thread. Now what about the other premise? Does anyone know if in fact the MF10 benefits from LUT access and the full Phelps treatment? I know that Wm has this access now but I don't know if it's been the case all along with the MF10.

joeycalda is my new Super Hero.

Anyone that can hold his ground standing alone against hoards of "I'm right" AVS members without budging an inch like Joey has demonstrated is one tough cookie :).

So, is the moral of the story that the RS2 sucks? ...whew, and so now the RS20's rep is safe from all such blasphemous assertions... at least for the moment. As an outsider without any real interest in this pj, I thought that "Jesus projector" remark was hilarious... I believe it was in reference to a human trait we all know too well that does exist on these forums but SOWK failed to realize that it is a behavior each of us never actually see in ourselves... only in others... thus it seems some here took offense. Relax people, grow a funny bone... it ain't that serious, really. I'm sure the RS20 will be the new king of the hill.

It was the RS2. Joey there are no RS20s in the states, not even Meridian have one.
http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/meridian-mf10-projector-jvc-dla-rs2-plus-ripoff

http://www.i4u.com/article15493.htmlhttp://gizmodo.com/367989/meridians-latest-1080p-projector-is-one-bad-mf10

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_0130.jpg


"This projector doesn't use the more common lower-end engine based on TI's DLP chip."

Uhh, ok...someone better tell SIM and all those digital cinemas to stop using those 'lower-end' engines based on DLP.

Well that shoots down 1 of the 2 premises of the title of the thread. Now what about the other premise? Does anyone know if in fact the MF10 benefits from LUT access and the full Phelps treatment? I know that Wm has this access now but I don't know if it's been the case all along with the MF10.

I don't think it makes any difference if this projector had it LUT's adjusted.
They were using a 6 gain screen and probably horrible ambient light conditions. It makes sense to me they changed from the Phelps calibration setting so this projector woold output max lumens and that's is where correct colors went down the drain.

Man, what a foist ! $15K...and then Pioneer is "only" selling THEIR RS-2 for about $8K ! :D:D:p:eek::D

Swok, I'm curious, what inspires you to write a post like this ?

He has done this in the past many times & gets into feuds with many others as well...

Plus he's put down LcOS & SXRD based products numerous times in the past favoring his DLP purchases...just ignore him imo he is just here to amuse us.

"This projector doesn't use the more common lower-end engine based on TI's DLP chip."

Uhh, ok...someone better tell SIM and all those digital cinemas to stop using those 'lower-end' engines based on DLP.

Typical marketing speak. They say what they can get away with.

Oh yeah, perhaps that's why you rushed to put your Marantz 11S2 on sale now;)

Nope. Just moving into a house, and will not have a theater room for a while.

He has done this in the past many times & gets into feuds with many others as well...

Plus he's put down LcOS & SXRD based products numerous times in the past favoring his DLP purchases...just ignore him imo he is just here to amuse us.

HAHA, the Marantz VP-11S2 was my first and only DLP purchase... (your comment = FTL!)
Get your facts straight before you post. :D

I was a DLP hater, RBE sufferer here <----

Well, I'm from Edmonton but don't-won't go into AA. I just sold my HD100 and will be installing the HD750 as soon as they hit the ground here in Canada. Nice to see some local guys with the JVC DILA's. :)

Here is the picture from the video.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m167/RickSor/JVCHD350-HD750.jpg

I was a DLP hater, RBE sufferer here <----

Did you notice much RBE with your Marantz? I've owned an HD72 and H79, and done quite a bit of viewing on my buddy's HD7100, and I notice it more than I'd like to. Although it's a tossup in annoyance level between that and motion blur, which I was also sensitive to on my RS1.

I got my hands on a VP12S3 for my buddy for less than $1K on A-gon, just wondering if I'll see the same RBE that I've seen with all the Optomas I've watched.

I may get to calibrate one soon too! Please don't ask for Contrast Ratio as I don't have the proper tools for contrast readings (yet).

I may post grey scale tracking and CMS when done.

What tools are you using to calibrate grayscale and CMS that doesn't do Contrast?

What tools are you using to calibrate grayscale and CMS that doesn't do Contrast?


You have to get a black reading to do contast ratio ;)

I can set brightness to proper ftL but I can not offer a real contrast ratio number.

The Marantz and I'm pretty sure the RS20 will not be able to be read by my meter with an all black screen.

Did you notice much RBE with your Marantz? I've owned an HD72 and H79, and done quite a bit of viewing on my buddy's HD7100, and I notice it more than I'd like to. Although it's a tossup in annoyance level between that and motion blur, which I was also sensitive to on my RS1.

I got my hands on a VP12S3 for my buddy for less than $1K on A-gon, just wondering if I'll see the same RBE that I've seen with all the Optomas I've watched.

In 6X mode at 48htz with Blu-Ray = very rarley.
In 5X mode at 48htz with Blu-Ray = common

This is for me thought. The Marantz at 5X is much better then most units at 5X.
You should be fine with the 12S3.

You have to get a black reading to do contast ratio ;)

I can set brightness to proper ftL but I can not offer a real contrast ratio number.

The Marantz and I'm pretty sure the RS20 will not be able to be read by my meter with an all black screen.

I'm sorry, I thought you indicated you were doing white balance and CMS calibrations. Are you ding white balance & CMS calibrations? And if yes, what tools are you using?

Thanks

I'm sorry, I thought you indicated you were doing white balance and CMS calibrations. Are you ding white balance & CMS calibrations? And if yes, what tools are you using?

Thanks

I am going to do a full white balance and CMS.

Steps I am going to take:

Setup to Cinema/natural mode

Set Black Level

Check out of box settings via Eye-One Colorimeter

Pre Calibrate White Balance / CMS with default Contrast settings (full screne of 255 white level)

Bring up DVE 100IRE window (235 white level)

Setup contrast to 16 ftL

Recheck Black Level

Calibrate 80 IRE

Calibrate 20 IRE

ect... via every IRE level from 10 to 100

CMS once again if changed (more then likely not needed)

White Balance once again (more then likely not needed)

Check Black level

Yeah it takes me a long time but its should be damn accurate when I am done.



White Balance of my Marantz VP-11S2 when I was done with one of my first calibrations. DE of less then 1 for most of the IRE range. I have had more time to learn the unit and colorimeter and the results today are under 1 DE for 20 and 30 as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbclassified/uploaded/128163cihud6.jpg

I am going to do a full white balance and CMS.

Steps I am going to take:

Setup to Cinema/natural mode

Set Black Level

Check out of box settings via Eye-One Colorimeter

Pre Calibrate White Balance / CMS with default Contrast settings (full screne of 255 white level)I think that you are using the terms "White Balance" and "CMS" interchangeably. Ordinarily "CMS" refers to controls that adjust the primary color points, not the white point. Almost all PJs have white balance adjustments, but very few have a CMS. This is one of the main selling points of the HD20.

I think that you are using the terms "White Balance" and "CMS" interchangeably. Ordinarily "CMS" refers to controls that adjust the primary color points, not the white point. Almost all PJs have white balance adjustments, but very few have a CMS. This is one of the main selling points of the HD20.


Tom I am going to be doing White Balance (Greyscale) and CMS calibrations on a RS20 Soon, That's what that post is about.

I just put that I will be adj white balance with a full scene of 255 white level. CMS will be done as well, I should have written Pre CMS / White Balance (full scene of 255 white level) calibration. I want my display devices to have great white balance to 255 not just 235 ;)

I learned most of everything from you :D

I totally understand CMS and White balance are separate & that White Balance has to be done first.

You guys do realise there was a fairly scathing expose of the MF10 as a vanilla RS2 with no discernable improvements?

All this talk of black magic LUT adjustment is just so much baloney, You are paying an extra 8k for a badge.

MrD
Meridian has it roots in audio so I think they are not as passionate about video and did a bad choice in the setup.
1 Not the best choice of screen
2 Prioritzed lumen and chose lumen over better grayscale
3 Had no gamut adjustment done through a video processor or otherwise.
4 No LUT adjustment since the projector was a RS2.

I am saying that Meridian is not worth your dollars in video.

I believe that shading uniformity can make some difference and I hope it will come to digital drive d-ila. If it does it will unfortunatly most likelly come with a Meridian badge.

MrD
Meridian has it roots in audio so I think they are not as passionate about video and did a bad choice in the setup.
1 Not the best choice of screen
2 Prioritzed lumen and chose lumen over better grayscale
3 Had no gamut adjustment done through a video processor or otherwise.
4 No LUT adjustment since the projector was a RS2.

I am saying that Meridian is not worth your dollars in video.

I believe that shading uniformity can make some difference and I hope it will come to digital drive d-ila. If it does it will unfortunatly most likelly come with a Meridian badge.

Ironic.

JVC is a diverse company, they don't specialise in projectors by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with the original poster that the RS2 is disappointing and that's what he saw. Crap colours, none existent motion resolution, crap optics giving soft image with light spill.

I'm trying to get rid of mine - I got it free BTW and didn't pay for it thank god.

It was so bad I resorted to paying a couple of hundred for ISF and it still looks like a bad cartoon. Good thing about these next shots is that they're paused so you don't notice the horrible motion blur and complete lack of detail in fast moving scenes.

Black is still a shade of grey even with 30k contrast.

Radioactive tree's:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild38.jpg

This is supposed to be sand not custard:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild39.jpg

Others such as these two don't look bad colour-wise:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild40.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild41.jpg

I suspect the high gain screen caused the image to look poorly.

Shinobiwan,

You're going to have trouble with any projector in that room because it is so narrow. No matter what you do you are getting reflections back on your screen and that is going to wash out blacks and generally degrade image quality. You can see this happening in your pictures. Don't waste your money on an expensive projector because you'll never see any benefit on the screen.

Get a cheap bright DLP and it will look just as good as what you have and you won't go through the disappointment of a 3rd LCOS projector.

Shinobiwan,

You're going to have trouble with any projector in that room because it is so narrow. No matter what you do you are getting reflections back on your screen and that is going to wash out blacks and generally degrade image quality. You can see this happening in your pictures. Don't waste your money on an expensive projector because you'll never see any benefit on the screen.

Get a cheap bright DLP and it will look just as good as what you have and you won't go through the disappointment of a 3rd LCOS projector.

You could also advice him to do something about the sides would that not be better ?. I would put black carpet or a few feet (atleast 5) of black lightkilling curtains on the sides.

It will help alot with image quality but also won't give reflections like that. Once you can't see anything around the screen the image seems to 'float' more and looks even bigger than it really is i have found.

Daniel.

What the hell... This threat turned into a Dila bash thread? To shinobi... Not sure how you got a free RS2, but you should be thankful. Also look to change the first 1/3 part of your room into all black that has little to no reflections. I'm not sure about the motion blur aspect of Dila, is it on SXRD too? I owned the Sony Pear, but never owned a JVC RS unit, and I don't recall anything objectionable about the motion. But that was before the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD 24Htz playback days anyhow.

Also Shinobi, Ill buy your RS2 off you for 300 Bucks or so.

You could also advice him to do something about the sides would that not be better ?. I would put black carpet or a few feet (atleast 5) of black lightkilling curtains on the sides.

It will help alot with image quality but also won't give reflections like that. Once you can't see anything around the screen the image seems to 'float' more and looks even bigger than it really is i have found.

Daniel.

Yes. He could try that but it looks as if he already has treatments in the room. Better stuff is probably available.

You could also advice him to do something about the sides would that not be better ?.

Yes 100%. The reflections could be totally removed for very little outlay

Ironic.

JVC is a diverse company, they don't specialise in projectors by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with the original poster that the RS2 is disappointing and that's what he saw. Crap colours, none existent motion resolution, crap optics giving soft image with light spill.

I'm trying to get rid of mine - I got it free BTW and didn't pay for it thank god.

It was so bad I resorted to paying a couple of hundred for ISF and it still looks like a bad cartoon. Good thing about these next shots is that they're paused so you don't notice the horrible motion blur and complete lack of detail in fast moving scenes.

Black is still a shade of grey even with 30k contrast.

Radioactive tree's:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild38.jpg

This is supposed to be sand not custard:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild39.jpg

Others such as these two don't look bad colour-wise:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild40.jpg

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-7/1050288/roombuild41.jpg
Call me crazy, but those images look pretty good to me, in spite of the less than ideal setup you have there. Don't get me wrong, I love this forum as much as the next guy, but to read comments like this followed by these posted pics is a head shaker for me. It's been stated on this forum a million times already, if you want to realize the full potential of the RS2's contrast enhancements, you need to have a solid foundation to begin with. That being said, I do have the Pioneer version of the RS2 in a less than ideal room, almost terrible in fact, and I'm still rewarded with MUCH deeper blacks.:rolleyes:

Regarding the motion blur observed by many, all I can say is, I don't see it... Maybe I'm just lucky.:D I do see rainbows with DLP, so I know how annoying these things can be.

You're going to have trouble with any projector in that room because it is so narrow.

As a rule, how much room do you folks like to leave on the side of the screen, even if light reflections are well managed?

In my small HT space, the front wall is 10' 5" wide. Our main viewing is from about 10', so a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen is an almost overwhelming size, which has rough 20" free space on the sides.

If I went to a 2.35:1 CIH format, I could be tempted to go a little wider to get back some of the lost image height, but I think I would want to keep atleast 12" border on the sides.

I welcome you thoughts.

. . . but I think I would want to keep atleast 12" border on the sides.


That sounds right to me. Ceiling also.

Call me crazy, but those images look pretty good to me.
OK. :) Those radioactive trees... I never got used to them. On my RS1 they were even worse than this pic. I got a Lumagen Vision and now I'm very happy with the pj except for that motion blur.

Shinobiwan,

You're going to have trouble with any projector in that room because it is so narrow. No matter what you do you are getting reflections back on your screen and that is going to wash out blacks and generally degrade image quality. You can see this happening in your pictures. Don't waste your money on an expensive projector because you'll never see any benefit on the screen.

Get a cheap bright DLP and it will look just as good as what you have and you won't go through the disappointment of a 3rd LCOS projector.

The room is a recent addition, before that all the kit was in a much larger lounge area. Larger rooms are nice but the amount of kit was getting ridiculous so it had to be moved into its own space. I've now got a dedicated 2 channel room and make-shift HT. I listen to more music than movies so that's where the priority went. There's fabric on the walls covering up acoustic treatments, it would have been very easy to put up darker tones instead of what I have but as I said before, the room is primarily used for music and depressing overly dark shades are something I avoided.

BTW, whether in the lounge or smaller room, when I show a 0 IRE field I still see grey.

I'm trying to get a viewing of the VW80 which I hope is better with motion or failing that then I'll go back to DLP.

Changed thread title:D

As a rule, how much room do you folks like to leave on the side of the screen, even if light reflections are well managed?

In my small HT space, the front wall is 10' 5" wide. Our main viewing is from about 10', so a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen is an almost overwhelming size, which has rough 20" free space on the sides.

If I went to a 2.35:1 CIH format, I could be tempted to go a little wider to get back some of the lost image height, but I think I would want to keep atleast 12" border on the sides.

I welcome you thoughts.

depends on how much of a batcave you make the front of the room.
also, unless you go w/ an AT screen, that doesn't leave you with
a very optimized speaker setup. (unless you go w/ speakers specifically
designed to mount on the sidewalls)

OK. :) Those radioactive trees... I never got used to them. On my RS1 they were even worse than this pic. I got a Lumagen Vision and now I'm very happy with the pj except for that motion blur.
Sure... I hear ya... I guess...:D The "slightly" over saturated colors don't bother me too much when you consider everything else the projector does so well. It just seems like such a small price to pay in my view.;)

You guys do realise there was a fairly scathing expose of the MF10 as a vanilla RS2 with no discernable improvements?

All this talk of black magic LUT adjustment is just so much baloney, You are paying an extra 8k for a badge.

Let's be clear that we're talking about two different things. 1) A MF10 being a vanilla RS2 with no improvements (incl. LUT adjustment). or 2) LUT adjustment itself being so much baloney.

If the MF10 is just a vetted RS2 then I would agree that paying a large premium is a rip-off.

LUT adjustment on the otherhand is not black magic and it can make a significant difference. How significant? If depends on how off the particular projector is that is receiving the treatment.

Shading uniformity has long been a weakness of LCOS compared to DLP. With Wm's auto-shading it's possible to get DLP-like uniformity which is of huge benefit especially if the LCOS projector has visible shading errors (and almost all RS series projectors do). You have to see a before and after shading demo to really appreciate it. Or live with an OOTB projector, have it shaded by Wm and then live with it somemore to really appreciate it.

LUT adjustments aren't limited to shading either. Greyscale flatness and gamma are all over the map with most RS series projectors. All an ISF type of treatment can do with greyscale on an RS series projector is raise and lower the curve, the flatness of the curve can't be adjusted. With the older style JVC projectors (with LUT access) Wm was able to get a near perfectly flat greyscale that was flatter than any other digital that we've seen with the sole exception maybe being $100K+ d-cinema projectors. The same is true with gamma. I measured the gamma on my RS-1 and it was only 1.8 at the high IRE range and 2.0 at the lower IRE range. The RS1X, RS2 and RS20 allow for gamma adustments but how many people have the equipment and skill to actually use it properly? The same is true for accurate CMS adjustment.

When the RS series first launched the lack of LUT access was my single biggest concern and complaint. It was also cheap insurance in that if the factory calibration was way off due to the luck of the draw, people could send it to Wm (or use the hard to find and use JVC PSA tool). Factory JVC calibration has improved over the years, but as of the RS1 series it was still visibly imperfect (especially the shading) and it remains to be seen if it's better on the RS20. The EH Expo sample looked great but who knows if this is representative of each and every unit rolling off the factory line.

As far as cost goes, $8k is a lot and much more than I would pay and much more than what JVC owners used to be able to pay Wm directly. But as with everything else in a free market system, if people will pay it then by definition it's priced right. If one looks at high-end high-fi it's much the same thing. People gladly pay exponentially high prices for diminishing returns. Pursuit of perfection comes at a price.

As a rule, how much room do you folks like to leave on the side of the screen, even if light reflections are well managed?

In my small HT space, the front wall is 10' 5" wide. Our main viewing is from about 10', so a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen is an almost overwhelming size, which has rough 20" free space on the sides.

If I went to a 2.35:1 CIH format, I could be tempted to go a little wider to get back some of the lost image height, but I think I would want to keep atleast 12" border on the sides.

I welcome you thoughts.

Very good question. I too have ~ 20" on each side of my screen, 110" W in a room with 150" wide screen wall. I've also thought about going to a 2.35 screen that is much wider, and wondered how wide I could go. Max seems something like 138"W, leaving 6" on each side, though this might be too much! I'll have to follow my own advice, and show some 2.35 pics on the wall to see how much my eyeballs can digest.

MrD
Meridian has it roots in audio so I think they are not as passionate about video and did a bad choice in the setup.


I am saying that Meridian is not worth your dollars in video.

.

I agree with you ; I quite like a lot of Meridian's audio kit, although I'm more of an Arcam , Musical Fidelity fan.

Changed thread title:D

Since it's been established it was the equivalent of an RS2 that you saw, not the RS20, I wonder why you didn't change the title to reflect that fact...leaving it still ambiguous.

?

MrD
Meridian has it roots in audio so I think they are not as passionate about video and did a bad choice in the setup.


Definitely a bad setup and pretty shocking actually. Don't forget though that Meridian bought Faroudja for their video expertise and Faroudja has been pretty passionate about video.


4 No LUT adjustment since the projector was a RS2.


We don't know this for a fact. I know Wm and Meridian were given LUT access sometime in the past year. Perhaps the lack of a Meridian version of the RS1 was because of lack of LUT access and the RS2 is the first projector where LUT adjustment is possible. Only Wm and Meridian know the answer to this.


I am saying that Meridian is not worth your dollars in video.


I would agree with this only if LUT access is not available. Otherwise the value of LUT precision and accuracy depends on the customers tastes, priorities, finances, etc. As an example, some people will think the improvement in contrast from a RS1 to a RS2 is not worth the added dollars.


I believe that shading uniformity can make some difference and I hope it will come to digital drive d-ila. If it does it will unfortunatly most likelly come with a Meridian badge.

I would word it even more strongly. With all of the RS series projectors I've seen (with the exception of the RS20 demo unit), better shading uniformity can make a noticeable improvement. With some units like the RS1 that I have, I would characterize it as a significant improvment. Accurate CMS adjustment, greyscale tracking and gamma are also things that can make a noticeable improvement.

Unfortunately it's not a given that LUT access alone means that we can expect the same level of precision that we've seen in the past. It may be the case with the digital backplane in the RS line that the range of adjustment and precision just isn't there. In that case LUT access may be able to improve on the factory calibration (or not) but it won't yield the level of precision that we've seen in the past. I hope Meridian publishes measured greyscale and shading data as Wm has done in the past because this will allow us to determine how well the new JVC's with digital backplanes can be calibrated. So far it's anyones guess.

Sure... I hear ya... I guess...:D The "slightly" over saturated colors don't bother me too much when you consider everything else the projector does so well. It just seems like such a small price to pay in my view.;)

Don't get me wrong. I think the RS1 is terrific, even in these days. But it was more than oversaturation. The RS1's foray into out of REC 709 gamut accounts for the neon greens. And, it doesn't even have the tools to pull it back in line. But all this has been covered ad-nauseum in other threads. I'm just disappointed they missed the boat AGAIN with the RS2 and RS10.

Call me crazy, but those images look pretty good to me, in spite of the less than ideal setup you have there. Don't get me wrong, I love this forum as much as the next guy, but to read comments like this followed by these posted pics is a head shaker for me.

They definately don't look bad to me either. However, I'm viewing them on an LCD monitor which probably doesn't have saturated primaries like the JVC. So it's very hard to convince people that the images are lousy with screenshots. As your post shows, it actually can do the opposite.

Since it's been established it was the equivalent of an RS2 that you saw, not the RS20, I wonder why you didn't change the title to reflect that fact...leaving it still ambiguous.

?

because admitting your wrong is never an option in this day and age!!!:rolleyes:

I think even more telling is the number of good projectors suddenly for sale here...

a planar 8150
jvc rs2x
pannies
an 11s1
etc.

Too funny.

We should encourage Meridian to provide data on what wm treatment to a projector can do for performance.
It is in Meridian´s own interest to convince us that what they have is unigue.

I think even more telling is the number of good projectors suddenly for sale here...

a planar 8150
jvc rs2x
pannies
an 11s1
etc.

Too funny.

Please don't think everyone is selling for an RS20. or I will say it again...

I totally understand CMS and White balance are separate & that White Balance has to be done first.Sorry, I misunderstood.

Please don't think everyone is selling for an RS20. or I will say it again...

Sure they are unless they are all whacky or took up another hobby:).

Sure they are unless they are all whacky or took up another hobby:).

Yeah I took up another hobby - finding a projector with a decent picture :D

Yeah I took up another hobby - finding a projector with a decent picture :D

You bet, that's a tough one. Aquariums are really pretty :).

We should encourage Meridian to provide data on what wm treatment to a projector can do for performance.
It is in Meridian´s own interest to convince us that what they have is unigue.

Until I see some published data on the MF10 its an RS2 with a higher price tag.

Just like the Cineversum and Pioneer models.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1042468

If Dr. Kevorkian needed to assist any thread...this one needs to be put out its misery quick!

Sure they are unless they are all whacky or took up another hobby:).

People are losing their Jobs left and right, moving out of homes, Just need top make ends meet. Thats a pretty good reason. Maybe they want an AE3000, or the new sony?

Yeah I took up another hobby - finding a projector with a decent picture :D

Do you really dislike the picture of the RS2 that much?

...BTW, whether in the lounge or smaller room, when I show a 0 IRE field I still see grey...

I'm looking into the FP road as well and I'm a black level fiend so if you think the RS20 has so-so black levels in a large or small room then either you are very picky or else FP's black levels are overrated. As a side note, if I display a blank screen on my Pioneer 6020 with the lights off even it will be a very dark shade of gray (and there is no FP out there better at black levels other than LED LCDs turning off the entire display). :(

Do you really dislike the picture of the RS2 that much?

Not to speak for Shinobiwan, but he must really, really hate the picture given his enthusiastic JVC bashing despite that JVC upgraded him to an RS2 for free when his HD1 was damaged by smoke.




Originally Posted by Shinobiwan
Sorry guys, forgot about this thread. I don't visit this part of the forum very often. Only when I want to bitch. Wasn't intentionally leaving you hanging... honest.

Lets just say that you don't let folks smoke in the same room as the projector whilst its on

Thanks Shinobiwan. That's actually not too embarrassing...I was thinking something along the lines of taping the filters shut due to light spill or removing a fan or two because the projector's too loud. :D

I'm sure everyone understands something simple like this can easily be overlooked. Now when people search for a problem and find this thread they'll understand how seemingly simple things can drastically affect sensitive equipment like this over time, and they won't make the same mistake. I'm sure the dealer and manufacturer understand as well since it wouldn't be difficult to tell it had smoke damage yet they still swapped the unit and upgraded it!

You may want to change/add to the title or add to your first post for those that read half of or skim through threads like this since the dealer and manufacturer really hooked you up.

Good luck!

Do you really dislike the picture of the RS2 that much?

Pretty much. This HD100 I've got now has the same old shading problem, colour problem and motion blur problem that my two previous HD1's had. The first HD1 didn't last more than a few days before the something went bad and wouldn't display anything via HDMI. The second had shading problems from the start that just got worse as it approached 2000 hours.

JVC claimed that smoking would damage the machine, even if its only once in a blue moon. They repaired the HD1, it went faulty again and they gave me a HD100. I banned smoking in the room and JVC assured me no problems would arise with the HD100 yet the sodding thing still has shading problems out the box. I've given up on them and won't be messing around with warranty again. I'll sell up, cut my losses and get something decent.

So no, never been happy with any JVC since the start.

I'm looking into the FP road as well and I'm a black level fiend so if you think the RS20 has so-so black levels in a large or small room then either you are very picky or else FP's black levels are overrated. As a side note, if I display a blank screen on my Pioneer 6020 with the lights off even it will be a very dark shade of gray (and there is no FP out there better at black levels other than LED LCDs turning off the entire display). :(

I'm an ex CRT owner so no way current models match up to total absence of light. Perceived black in mixed light scenes is however good. Its just when your looking at very dark or completely black scenes that you notice the dark grey.

Since it's been established it was the equivalent of an RS2 that you saw, not the RS20, I wonder why you didn't change the title to reflect that fact...leaving it still ambiguous.

Because it is accurate for me .....just because a bunch of forum members who are excited about getting the RS20, and don't want it talked poorly about before it even comes out, shouldn't influence my take on what the reps told me, and the generic projector photo doesn't convince me of anything. I actually have a email into Meridian UK to ask why these comments were made even after I was very deliberate with my questioning of the model. I used this information to come on a public forum and post my views and also cancelled my order with Jason.

Joey drop a PM to Tom Stites Im sure he will confirm the model.
Not surprising the reps did not know what model they are OEMing.
They were probably told by their boss it was the latest model then at some point during the day someone mentioned the RS20 and they thought..if thats the latest then thats what we have here.
You are obviously not at fault for passing along what you were told.

Yes Joey, like I said before some of us were only trying to get more details because, believe it or not, reps for some companies are not always as in the loop as you would expect them to be.

I have had several experiences talking with reps from various companies (including Sony) demoing gear and I knew more about their produce than they did...and they actually gave wrong information! Not all reps are technical wonders - they are talkers. Some just take certain talking points on the road about their product.

That's why we continued to question even when you say you got that info from reps.
Given some of the posts on this thread by some knowledgeable people it's obvious it's the HD100 based projector.

I mean there is a link in this thread to the very announcement from Audio Ark for the projector demo you saw and the picture is of the HD100 based unit! What more do you want? What possible reason would we have left to think it was anything else?

I'm sure you guys are right.... its just personal now...between me and Meridian...appreciate all the insight into the projector. Feel free to end the thread if you think it's become a misrepresentation. I certaintly don't care.


JOEY

They definately don't look bad to me either. However, I'm viewing them on an LCD monitor which probably doesn't have saturated primaries like the JVC. So it's very hard to convince people that the images are lousy with screenshots. As your post shows, it actually can do the opposite.

I'd have to say they are some of the nicest looking candid screenshots I've seen. They look pretty good on an HD1!

I've had my HD1 for over a year now and I still can't find a reason to upgrade it ( just bought a spare bulb in fact). Sure if I put a grey field up : purity isn't 100% , little bit red on the left ( my unit is inverted). If I have the PC up I can see red/cyan shimmer on fast scrolling high contrast text. Its frankly awful at upscaling SD material: never understood why people raved about this aspect of the model. Sure the native gamut has oversaturated greens and to a lesser extent red.

How many of these issues actually have any negative impact on my viewing experience ( predominately 24p and 50p material from an HTPC or 720p gaming from consoles)? None of them.

I'm significantly less dissatisfied with my HD1 that any other projector I've owned or used (including CRT). With the exception of a Barco DP100 fed 10 bit log film 2k film scans.

No projector is perfect but I think we all lose sight of how far projector performance has come in the last 3 years.

Buy what you like , please don't spend double what you had to (especially these days) just for a badge and some carpet bagging marketing spiel.

I used this information to come on a public forum and post my views and also cancelled my order with Jason.

This was probably the right thing for you to do.

I have no doubt that you saw a RS2 not a RS20 but the differences between them will probably not be profound. They will share LCOS traits, both good and bad. The RS20 will be a bit brighter, have a bit better blacks, and have correctible color. I hope that the things that we heard about better uniformity among units due to QC improvements is correct, but time will tell.

It is common on AVS to see waves of presale euphoria, some presale buyers' remorse, and then things level out post sale. People will either on balance be happy or not. The smart move is to wait unit the verdict is in so that you are at least buying a machine with known issues. For me, I know the RS1 very well, like it, and think that the improvements in specs justify the upgrade. I think the risk of being disappointed with this projector are pretty negligible for me.

I will post my honest opinion once I get mine. For instance, when I upgraded my Lumagen HDP to a Radiance, I posted that, at least for me, the upgrade was not worth the cost because the actual PQ improvements were minor. If the RS20 is only a minor improvement or takes steps back, I will say so. So will many other people.

I'm an ex CRT owner so no way current models match up to total absence of light. Perceived black in mixed light scenes is however good. Its just when your looking at very dark or completely black scenes that you notice the dark grey.

If the RS2 disappoints in its black levels, you are sadly out of luck on other digitals. The RS20 will be better and you have an adjustible iris to make things even better, but no digitial is now available for any price that will be better. Maybe get another CRT?

I am using a cheap DLP unit until the RS20 arrives and it does a very nice job with mixed scenes as well. Black looks black provided there are other things on the screen. Fade to blacks? Forget them. They are really fade to electric grey. My old RS1 was in another, better, league alltogether on fade to blacks, but no where near perfect.

This dlp that I am using shows motion issues as well. I genuinely believe that most motion issues are in the source and are not caused by any projection technology. Fortunately, these issues don't bother me. Even in real life motion is accompanied by blur. That kind of blur is a little different than what we see in front projection but it is similar enough that my brain simply accepts it.

I'm looking into the FP road as well and I'm a black level fiend so if you think the RS20 has so-so black levels in a large or small room then either you are very picky or else FP's black levels are overrated. As a side note, if I display a blank screen on my Pioneer 6020 with the lights off even it will be a very dark shade of gray (and there is no FP out there better at black levels other than LED LCDs turning off the entire display). :(

My gamma corrected Sony G90 (CRT) and my gamma corrected Marquee 8501 (CRT) are both front projectors and they both take a light controlled room into pitch blackness in fade to blacks while retaining shadow detail in normal scenes. There may be no digital front projectors that are able to do this (won't be long I would think), but there are front projectors that are capable of this. I am a true black level fiend and played with CRTs (and digitals) and gamma correction long before it was fashionable and took some heat for it (and was involved in some intense discussions with respect to this on this forum). Now gamma correction is built into many of the high end cards (vindication is kind of nice) you can buy for CRTs!

shouldn't influence my take on what the reps told me

The reps did tell you something...

You understood something else...

You then blame it on a totally different PJ.

You could have said it was even the newer JVC the 4K X 2K model as far as your're concerned.

The reps did tell you something...and we have exhausted that topic +1

You understood something else...I understand that it is very likely the reps made a mistake -1

You then blame it on a totally different PJ.Not sure I follow you there -1

You could have said it was even the newer JVC the 4K X 2K model as far as your're concerned. That would be blatantly false, and not following my pattern of behaviour in this thread. -1

1 out of 4...that won't even win you a Kewpie Doll...

Cheers,

Joey

1 out of 4...that won't even win you a kewpie doll...


:d:d

I'm with you Joey. Regardless of whether canceling the RS20 was the right call for you, getting misled by confused Meridian reps to the point where it affects your purchase plans has got to be really annoying.

I'm with you Joey. Regardless of whether canceling the RS20 was the right call for you, getting misled by confused Meridian reps to the point where it affects your purchase plans has got to be really annoying.

+1. I'm sure Meridian reps bill the RS2 as a "fully calibrated" projector even though it may not have benefited from LUT access and it's calibration was therefore not much better than a good ISF treatment. The Meridian reps also displayed it on a terrible screen and apparently without a color accurate VP. With that setup I'm sure it looked terrible and Joey was accurately reporting what he saw. We shouldn't kill the messenger.

..and the moral of the story is...

tickling works better than yelling, poking, hitting or kicking. ...AND

The JVC projectors look horrible on a 6.0 gain screen...that's a fact!

THE END.

Anything is going to look horrible on a 6.0 gain screen with no light control/poor environment.

Please change the name of the thread title to something correct.

I think its time to end this one. Thread closed.