I just purchased and received the new Live From Abbey Road: Best of Season One (Blu-ray) from Amazon.
I was very excited to see and hear this Blu-ray disc since I'm an avid concert fan and A/V geek. Not to mention, it's a well-done show from Channel 4 in England with an eclectic mix of performers (Dave Matthews, John Mayer, Jamiroquai, LeeAnn Rimes, Norah Jones, Gipsy Kings, etc.).

I am absolutely disappointed with this purchase. These are legendary performances. Amazing show / concept, but whoever mixed the surround audio seriously needs to go back to school. The only time the center channel gets used is during the interviews and top menu. NO center channel whatsoever during the performances. This is the case with both Dolby and DTS mixes. These performances were recently recorded. It's almost like listening to 2-channel stereo or quad. I have many standard definition concert DVDs that put this disc to shame. Not to mention several SACD and DVD-Audio titles that also make this Blu-ray sound bad.

What is the deal? I know it's not my setup because I have a preamp that shows the levels on each of the 5 channels. There is no center channel sound during these performances. This is misleading since the packaging states Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. I am using a highend HDMI cable straight from my PS3 to my Denon Receiver. It's not my setup, it's the mix on this disc. I do not believe these performances were recorded in 2-channel stereo, so why the lackluster sound? I was hoping for reference material.

I want to send the Audio Producer / Supervisor reference Blu-ray titles such as Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall or even Eagles: Hell Freezes Over on standard DVD. These are great examples of how a DVD / Blu-ray title should be mixed in 5.1.

These performances were obviously recorded in HD at Abbey Road Studios. Am I off for thinking a singer's vocals should generally be directed from the center channel? What's sound hard about doing so? I prefer it and feel that it provides better imaging.

These performances were obviously recorded in HD at Abbey Road Studios. Am I off for thinking a singer's vocals should generally be directed from the center channel? What's sound hard about doing so? I prefer it and feel that it provides better imaging.

There's a school of thought that advocates against center channel vocals in concert video, because it's unrealistic -- it's rare to see a similar setup in an actual concert venue.

Steven Wilson, whose surround mixes of his band Porcupine Tree consistently win "best of" awards, is one such proponent.

I haven't seen the video in question so I can't directly comment. Personally, I agree with Wilson. In live music the mix is usually not well delineated spacially, it varies radically with the listening position, and is affected hugely by room ambiance. The ratio of direct to reflected sound changes completely as you move from front to back, as does the apparent source of the vocals.

So the sound mixer for the video has to pick a spot and stick with it. The first choice is will it be a "realistic" spot ("10th row center") or a virtual one. The choice here is subjective and will depend a lot on the production goal and on the music itself.

Personally, I do tend to prefer more "clinical" mixes, ones that downplay audience noise and attempt to make the music sound as perfect as possible. But at the same time, center-channel vocals (at least in my listening room) often seem to create a disconnect between the music and the video, making the sound actually seem less immersive -- everything on the screen is moving around and changing from second to second, but the sound of the singer is right there in my face.

But so much depends on the nature of the music, the size and ambiance of the room, and the intentions of the sound mixer that I don't think it's possible to generalize. Except to say that each title should ideally be created to best serve its particular content.

Is the Richard Ashcroft segment included? Online listings for this item don't specifically mention him even though he was part of the first season.

While I haven't heard the Blu-ray version of them, I was a huge fan of the original HD broadcasts, which were shown on my cable system's Sundance Channel. The audio mix was a big reason for my enjoyment of the series. I just ordered the BD version and I am looking forward to hearing them with increased resolution.

The lack of a center channel should not detract at all from enjoying these top quality performances. Labeling something with DTS-MA or Dolby True HD is NEVER an indication of the number of channels contained in the mix - technically a mono DTS-MA track would be just as accurate (in terms of the name) as a 5.1 mix. There's nothing "misleading" about it.

I just purchased and received the new Live From Abbey Road: Best of Season One (Blu-ray) from Amazon.
I was very excited to see and hear this Blu-ray disc since I'm an avid concert fan and A/V geek. Not to mention, it's a well-done show from Channel 4 in England with an eclectic mix of performers (Dave Matthews, John Mayer, Jamiroquai, LeeAnn Rimes, Norah Jones, Gipsy Kings, etc.).

I am absolutely disappointed with this purchase. These are legendary performances. Amazing show / concept, but whoever mixed the surround audio seriously needs to go back to school. The only time the center channel gets used is during the interviews and top menu. NO center channel whatsoever during the performances. This is the case with both Dolby and DTS mixes. These performances were recently recorded. It's almost like listening to 2-channel stereo or quad. I have many standard definition concert DVDs that put this disc to shame. Not to mention several SACD and DVD-Audio titles that also make this Blu-ray sound bad.

What is the deal? I know it's not my setup because I have a preamp that shows the levels on each of the 5 channels. There is no center channel sound during these performances. This is misleading since the packaging states Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. I am using a highend HDMI cable straight from my PS3 to my Denon Receiver. It's not my setup, it's the mix on this disc. I do not believe these performances were recorded in 2-channel stereo, so why the lackluster sound? I was hoping for reference material.

I want to send the Audio Producer / Supervisor reference Blu-ray titles such as Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Music Hall or even Eagles: Hell Freezes Over on standard DVD. These are great examples of how a DVD / Blu-ray title should be mixed in 5.1.

These performances were obviously recorded in HD at Abbey Road Studios. Am I off for thinking a singer's vocals should generally be directed from the center channel? What's sound hard about doing so? I prefer it and feel that it provides better imaging.

I completely disagree with your thoughts on this disc. I just watched this on Sat and here is what I wrote about it in the tier thread...........



Live from Abbey Road: Best of season 1..............Tier 0

Fantastic mix on this one, and close to ref vote from me. This disc does bass the way it should be done which not all discs do. Full, strong, deep, tight, fills the room nicely and rewards those with a sub or subs that have been properly eq'd. Check out Norah Jones, jamiroquai, David Gilmour, Iron Maden, Gipsy Kings and Dave Matthews for great demonstrations on how bass should sound on disc. Vocals are crystal clear, nice wide soundstage, etc....One thing to note though, and this was not an issue for me as I sit dead center between my Front L @ R speakers is the vocals come out of the L @ R speaker, NOT the center channel for the actual performances which may be an issue if you dont sit in the sweet spot so to speak.



Needless to say, I thought this mix was fantastic. I did note the center channel not being used for the actual performances, but this was certainly not an issue for me at all as I sit dead center between my front left and right speaker and had a perfect dead center stereo image of the vocals right in front of me. Surround use (or lack of I should say) was excellent since you tech dont want the instrments to be carried into the surrounds besides a bit of bleed off and crowd noise if applicable. To be honest, I would never have known the center was not being used If I had not read Ralph Potts review here on AVS. Even playing the disc I would have sworn the center was being used as the vocals were so full, and dead center between the mains, but I did confirm that it was not being used which again was a non issue for me.

I would put this up there no problem with the Dave and Tim Live at Radio City which I also own and I have heard the Eagles DVD you mention and think this BR takes that out no problem. Just my opinion. This Live from Abbey Road is one of the better examples on how to do bass on disc which a lot of concert discs screw up.

The copy I listened to was a rental and If you are looking to get rid of this disc shoot me a PM as I would take it off your hands for a good price if you are that unhappy with it. I loved it. I could see myself using certain performances on this disc as demo material infact. That Iron Maiden chapter was fantastic.....I loved the whole disc within reason. Make me a deal I cant refuse!:)

By the way, I am not familar with this series besides this BR disc....Is there a season 2, 3, etc.... on cable that we can look forward to on BR?

Just picked this up today, it better be good Toe;)

Will post my thoughts FWIW

Just picked this up today, it better be good Toe;)

Will post my thoughts FWIW

Let me know what you think:) I thought it was fantastic overall.

By the way, I am not familar with this series besides this BR disc....Is there a season 2, 3, etc.... on cable that we can look forward to on BR?Season 1 played on the Sundance Channel in SD and was later repeated on Universal HD (http://www.universalhd.com/Sundance/Live_From_Abbey_Road.shtml) (in HD, of course). Season 2 is now playing on Sundance (http://www.sundancechannel.com/series/live_from_abbey_road_season2). I'm not sure whether it will appear on Universal HD at any point.

Season 1 played on the Sundance Channel in SD and was later repeated on Universal HD (http://www.universalhd.com/Sundance/Live_From_Abbey_Road.shtml) (in HD, of course). Season 2 is now playing on Sundance (http://www.sundancechannel.com/series/live_from_abbey_road_season2). I'm not sure whether it will appear on Universal HD at any point.

Thanks for the info:)

Let me know what you think:) I thought it was fantastic overall.

Toe, I cannot believe that what you and I hear is so different. I have around 60-70 concerts on BD, HD DVD and DVD and alot of them sound good, some sound great and a few are superb, I have a pretty good system in a sound studio type HT/listening room and its dialed in pretty much spot on.

The AQ on this disc is pretty much complete crap, considering it was done in a studio adds insult to injury. Its a life less, horrible mix that is just plainly lacking any kind of fidelity at all. You mention all this tight deep bass???? Are you kidding me? I have a PB13 Ultra sub, I cranked the LFE on the pre/pro way above normal..........no bass, nada, nothing.

Some tracks were marginally better than others but overall a miserable disc in the AQ department, my rating for AQ is 2/5 stars.........rent it at best.

There's a school of thought that advocates against center channel vocals in concert video, because it's unrealistic -- it's rare to see a similar setup in an actual concert venue.In this particular case, the vocals were mixed to phantom image dead center of the front soundstage. So much so, that if you were sitting exactly between your left and right speakers, you may not even notice that the centre speaker was not being used. Toe's review confirms this, which matches my experience watching the show on Universal HD.

So the mix was never intended to mimic what we hear at an actual concert venue. If the mixer wants certain sounds to image at the exact centre of the soundstage, then I agree with Soundboy that those specific sounds could have been placed in the centre channel. Any content or effects that required the use of 2 channels could still be mixed to the front L/R channels.

This wouldn't change directionality, since centered sounds would still come from the same location. But it would help with imaging stability. With a phantom centre, you have to be sitting exactly between the L/R speakers to hear those sounds directly in front of you. For off-axis listeners, centered sounds will collapse to the nearest speaker. With a hard centre, sounds intended to come from the centre of the soundstage will always come from that location, no matter where the listerner is sitting.

Sanjay

In this particular case, the vocals were mixed to phantom image dead center of the front soundstage. So much so, that if you were sitting exactly between your left and right speakers, you may not even notice that the centre speaker was not being used. Toe's review confirms this, which matches my experience watching the show on Universal HD.

So the mix was never intended to mimic what we hear at an actual concert venue. If the mixer wants certain sounds to image at the exact centre of the soundstage, then I agree with Soundboy that those specific sounds could have been placed in the centre channel. Any content or effects that required the use of 2 channels could still be mixed to the front L/R channels.

This wouldn't change directionality, since centered sounds would still come from the same location. But it would help with imaging stability. With a phantom centre, you have to be sitting exactly between the L/R speakers to hear those sounds directly in front of you. For off-axis listeners, centered sounds will collapse to the nearest speaker. With a hard centre, sounds intended to come from the centre of the soundstage will always come from that location, no matter where the listerner is sitting.

Sanjay

However it was mixed, it sounds horrible, Just my 2cent$.

Toe, I cannot believe that what you and I hear is so different. I have around 60-70 concerts on BD, HD DVD and DVD and alot of them sound good, some sound great and a few are superb, I have a pretty good system in a sound studio type HT/listening room and its dialed in pretty much spot on.

The AQ on this disc is pretty much complete crap, considering it was done in a studio adds insult to injury. Its a life less, horrible mix that is just plainly lacking any kind of fidelity at all. You mention all this tight deep bass???? Are you kidding me? I have a PB13 Ultra sub, I cranked the LFE on the pre/pro way above normal..........no bass, nada, nothing.

Some tracks were marginally better than others but overall a miserable disc in the AQ department, my rating for AQ is 2/5 stars.........rent it at best.

Wow. Sorry you did not like it:(

I loved it and think the mix is fantastic. How are you not getting deep tight bass???:confused: I have the same sub as you. How is your FR from ~100hz-20hz? I run dual PB13's and a 12/2 Ultra eq'd with a SMS-1 in a treated HT room (bass traps and first reflection traps) and the bass pressurized the room VERY nicely. If you want weak bass, check out the Foo Fighters disc which I played right before this. Some tracks were better than others, but MOST of them had VERY good bass in my room. Were you sitting dead center between your front left and right speaker? I think because of the lack of center channel that may be of importance for this mix (this should not matter for the bass though which baffles me that you are not getting chest thumping bass).

Anyway, sorry you did not like it. Did you buy it? If so make me an offer I cant refuse and I will take it off your hands as I would use some of the segments off this disc for demo material (Norah Jones, jamiroquai, David Gilmour, Iron Maden, Gipsy Kings and Dave Matthews).:D

In this particular case, the vocals were mixed to phantom image dead center of the front soundstage. So much so, that if you were sitting exactly between your left and right speakers, you may not even notice that the centre speaker was not being used. Toe's review confirms this, which matches my experience watching the show on Universal HD.


As I noted, I would not even had known the center channel was not being used had I not read Ralph Potts review here on AVS. Even when listening I would have sworn my center channel was on, and I actualy had to go up to it to see if it was realy was not putting out the vocals and it wasnt. I do sit dead center between the front left and right speakers though. This is a awesome mix IMO.

Wow. Sorry you did not like it:(

I loved it and think the mix is fantastic. How are you not getting deep tight bass???:confused: I have the same sub as you. How is your FR from ~100hz-20hz? I run dual PB13's and a 12/2 Ultra eq'd with a SMS-1 in a treated HT room (bass traps and first reflection traps) and the bass pressurized the room VERY nicely. If you want weak bass, check out the Foo Fighters disc which I played right before this. Some tracks were better than others, but MOST of them had VERY good bass in my room. Were you sitting dead center between your front left and right speaker? I think because of the lack of center channel that may be of importance for this mix (this should not matter for the bass though which baffles me that you are not getting chest thumping bass).

Anyway, sorry you did not like it. Did you buy it? If so make me an offer I cant refuse and I will take it off your hands as I would use some of the segments off this disc for demo material (Norah Jones, jamiroquai, David Gilmour, Iron Maden, Gipsy Kings and Dave Matthews).:D



As I noted, I would not even had known the center channel was not being used had I not read Ralph Potts review here on AVS. Even when listening I would have sworn my center channel was on, and I actualy had to go up to it to see if it was realy was not putting out the vocals and it wasnt. I do sit dead center between the front left and right speakers though. This is a awesome mix IMO.


That is really weird isn't it? On the Police concert my LFE settings are LFE -5.0 and gain on the 13 at 10 o'clock and it just rocks the joint with rich awesome tight bass, but honestly on this one it was almost non existant, I jacked up the LFE to +2!!

Oh well, not your fault, Ralph Potts liked it too, must be on my end. Like I said before though, I have lots of other material that sounds excellent....very weird indeed.

BTW, your setup sounds awesome.

That is really weird isn't it? On the Police concert my LFE settings are LFE -5.0 and gain on the 13 at 10 o'clock and it just rocks the joint with rich awesome tight bass, but honestly on this one it was almost non existant, I jacked up the LFE to +2!!

Oh well, not your fault, Ralph Potts liked it too, must be on my end. Like I said before though, I have lots of other material that sounds excellent....very weird indeed.

BTW, your setup sounds awesome.

Man, that is interesting:confused: Did you happen to try both the TrueHD and DTS-MA track to see if that made a dif which it shouldnt, but who knows? If you listened to the TrueHD, maybe late night mode was on? I listened to the DTS-MA track for what its worth.

Well anyway, sorry you did not like it. These concert discs definately have the widest range of opinion it seems as I have been dissapointed with discs that other people found to be excelent and the other way around. So many variables with these things:)

Well I think you and I will be in agreement with the Police BR. I still have not listened to mine yet, but from all reports this one seems to be a winner. I will let you know what I think when I listen to it:)

Thanks for the HT compliment by the way.:) Been a LONG road to get it to where it is today, but was well worth it. Dont you love the PB13?;)

Man, that is interesting:confused: Did you happen to try both the TrueHD and DTS-MA track to see if that made a dif which it shouldnt, but who knows? If you listened to the TrueHD, maybe late night mode was on? I listened to the DTS-MA track for what its worth.

Well anyway, sorry you did not like it. These concert discs definately have the widest range of opinion it seems as I have been dissapointed with discs that other people found to be excelent and the other way around. So many variables with these things:)

Well I think you and I will be in agreement with the Police BR. I still have not listened to mine yet, but from all reports this one seems to be a winner. I will let you know what I think when I listen to it:)

Thanks for the HT compliment by the way.:) Been a LONG road to get it to where it is today, but was well worth it. Dont you love the PB13?;)

Hiya Toe, I have the DRC/night time mode turned off on my BD55, and yes I did try both tracks, but missed the second half of the disc, oops, there is a part 2?:o

And a resounding huge YES...I think the PB13 is an outstanding piece of equipment, probably the biggest improvement overall to my system.

Cheers, Chris

p.s. Looking forward to your thoughts on the Police.

Hiya Toe, I have the DRC/night time mode turned off on my BD55, and yes I did try both tracks, but missed the second half of the disc, oops, there is a part 2?:o

And a resounding huge YES...I think the PB13 is an outstanding piece of equipment, probably the biggest improvement overall to my system.

Cheers, Chris

p.s. Looking forward to your thoughts on the Police.

Sounds good Chris.:) Yeah, I ALMOST missed part 2 as well. I thought the disc was over after part 1 and caught it at the last moment:)

Will let you know about the Police, might get to it today.

About a year ago, I wrote a short little blog on my Myspace page - my feelings about the audio mix of the show are self -explanatory. Perhaps the BD version has a different mix, but the DD mix from the HD broadcast was spectacular. I am really looking forward to this disc arriving in the mail.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=36269210&blogID=306354704

About a year ago, I wrote a short little blog on my Myspace page - my feelings about the audio mix of the show are self -explanatory. Perhaps the BD version has a different mix, but the DD mix from the HD broadcast was spectacular. I am really looking forward to this disc arriving in the mail.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=36269210&blogID=306354704

Nice little writeup and I agree with your assessment. Gipsy Kings and Iron Maiden were 2 of my favorites out of all these performances. :)

I ordered this and look forward to hearing it. Interesting to hear two radically different viewpoints on the mix. :)

For me, even if it ends up less than desirable, I like concerts like this that have so many diverse artists. They need more of these.

I ordered this and look forward to hearing it. Interesting to hear two radically different viewpoints on the mix. :)

For me, even if it ends up less than desirable, I like concerts like this that have so many diverse artists. They need more of these.


The show itself and content is pretty good although I am not a fan of interviews between songs, especially concerts but it works ok being a TV series. I would have prefered that the interviews be seperate to maintain a better flow of music, but thats just me.

Enjoy!

Just received this one yesterday and have watched both portions. The audio quality is spectacular - bass is very tight and definitely not weak. The thing I really love about this disc is that you can hear the differences in the way each artist produces their sound, and subtle changes in equipment become very obvious, e.g. LeAnn Rhimes' lack of filtering on her vocals was a refreshing change over some of the other female artists, and provided her performance with an immediacy that some of the others don't have.

Only complaint about it: I wish this was the entire season on multiple disc set, rather than a single song from each artist, and there are a couple artists that I would have liked to have seen that are missing (most notably Massive Attack, Snow Patrol and the Chill Peppers).

Killer disc! I just watched it last night the first time, what a wonderful production. Great video and audio mix. I especially enjoyed Nora Jones, Natasha Bedingfield, Craig David, Jamiroquai, Corrine Bailey Rae, Dr. John, Wynton Marsalis, Nerina Pallout and LeAnn Rimes.