On Wednesday during the NBC Nightly News, they used a 4:3 clip of John McCain on Leno the previous night with the Nightly News Wings on it. Of course my first thought was WTF, its their own network, but then I quickly remembered it was NBC we were talking about, so nothing should be a surprise.

It also got me thinking about the few that have actually gone out of their way to make sure HD is available for highlights.

A big thumbs up to ESPN for their efforts to get HD Highlights of Sports Programming.

A big thumbs up to KCBS-TV in Los Angeles who has done a job far and beyond what I have seen anywhere else on their Sunday Night Sports Wrap Up with HD Hightlights.

And the surprise came today, on all places, Oprah!!!

First they had live shots of the California fire from KABC-TV's HD Helicopter as they spoke with a reporter.

In the next segement on a California Proposition and the fallout from it, they had HD CLIPS from CNN-HD (even though it was the 4:3 CNN picture with CNN Wings), FOX NEWS-HD (yes, again the Fox 4:3 with info panels on the side), ELLEN -HER COMPETITION IN HD!!!! - as well as a number of the regular network newscasts in HD.

Even though a number of the clips were 4;3 with wings, they were taken from the HD feeds. I was amazed that of all places, Oprah had access to all these HD Channels for clips (including her competition).

Regardless of how soft they have her show, the fact that they have gone to such effort to get the HD feeds is astonishing, especially when you consider that NBC could not even air the HD Feed of Leno ON THEIR OWN NEWSCAST.

So who else deserves an attaboy?

WXYZ ABC Detroit, uses HD highlights from FOX, CBS, ESPN, Big Ten, and others for its HD newscasts and the 1/2 hour Sunday Sports Update.

Does Nightly News have any pre-recorded HD content in it yet?

If they are running HD for live studio presentation and live shots, but are SD for "tape" (these days probably server...) inserts, then it is likely that their "traffic" area (where incoming feeds, including off-air stuff) is still SD (and probably 4:3 SD), and their edit suites will also be SD only?

I suspect Oprah has upgraded her entire production infrastructure, from traffic/lines record, through editing to the studio, because it is all on one site and nowhere near the same scale as a news operation.

It is MUCH easier to make smaller operations (like local news) all HD (even down to HD off-air recordings), and much easier to make larger operations that are self-contained all HD. Network News is probably one of the hardest genres to switch (and I suspect it doesn't generate as much revenue).

Does Nightly News have any pre-recorded HD content in it yet?

If they are running HD for live studio presentation and live shots, but are SD for "tape" (these days probably server...) inserts, then it is likely that their "traffic" area (where incoming feeds, including off-air stuff) is still SD (and probably 4:3 SD), and their edit suites will also be SD only?

I suspect Oprah has upgraded her entire production infrastructure, from traffic/lines record, through editing to the studio, because it is all on one site and nowhere near the same scale as a news operation.

It is MUCH easier to make smaller operations (like local news) all HD (even down to HD off-air recordings), and much easier to make larger operations that are self-contained all HD. Network News is probably one of the hardest genres to switch (and I suspect it doesn't generate as much revenue).

Nightly News does show prerecorded HD.

Nightly News does show prerecorded HD.

Do the HD segments follow any pattern - or is it just a mix of 4:3 SD, 16:9 SD and 16:9 HD field reports? (Or is 16:9 SD not used?) Or is the HD used for pre-recorded content other than field reports? (Or packages as I would call them this side of the pond)

I suspect Oprah has upgraded her entire production infrastructure, from traffic/lines record, through editing to the studio, because it is all on one site and nowhere near the same scale as a news operation.

It is MUCH easier to make smaller operations (like local news) all HD (even down to HD off-air recordings), and much easier to make larger operations that are self-contained all HD. Network News is probably one of the hardest genres to switch (and I suspect it doesn't generate as much revenue).NBC was the first US network to go HD on their evening news. The NBC facility in NY has extensive HD routing justified by their Olympics coverage. I agree with the OP that not showing one of your own programs in HD demonstrates a less than full commitment to HD. But NBC has been like this all along. They are often a true dichotomy of pushing the envelope and dropping the ball, tripping over their own feet. There seems to be a lack of synergy through the company. The airing of Ellen by NBC O&Os in SD after the show went HD is another example, made even more apparent when the show is produced in the same neighborhood as their LA station. I would think the Ellen show was really PO'd about this, especially when the competition such as Oprah and Dr. Phil do air in HD. From the caps in the Ellen thread from KNBC, I wonder if they are now playing upconverted widescreen SD.

It should be interesting to see how the analog cutoff influences this situation. From a technical standpoint there isn't any need for change, but I think there may be psychological effect of no longer having a SD outlet.

While Oprah has a smaller facility to upgrade, being a stand alone operation also creates greater challenges for acquisition of HD material. Stations and networks often have extensive facilities in place for their news operations. The flipside to those kind of operations is that various departments can act as nearly independent entities and inter-department fees can dissuade one from using the highest quality option. Oprah's use of HD clips does demonstrate that they fully committed to a full HD transition and didn't take baby steps such as first converting the studio, then the field packages, then the external material etc. As for being a bit soft, some of that may be due to the fact that the show is produced in 1080i and 720p stations need to cross-convert it. Of coarse another reason is the obvious: Super crisp HD can be less than flattering.

The transition to HD has diminished the amount of shows with high levels of coarse detail enhancement. Perhaps one of the shows to benefit the most was the NBC's Today show. It looks quite good now, but in the SD days it was just horrendous with strong thick outlines. With HD the only place I see that much anymore is on some sports. They can look very French :D

NBC was the first US network to go HD on their evening news.


Yep - but have they gone fully HD in the field, or did they transition their studio (and some live shot facilities first) - with HD field-recording (and thus report editing) remaining SD (4:3 or 16:9)?


The NBC facility in NY has extensive HD routing justified by their Olympics coverage.


Ah - do NBC News and the other bits of NBC share technical facilities?

Over here it is common for the news divisions of broadcasters (like the BBC and Sky) to be nearly totally independent of the sports and general production areas. There is connectivity between them - but they are effectively separate operations, with separate MCRs.


<SNIP>
While Oprah has a smaller facility to upgrade, being a stand alone operation also creates greater challenges for acquisition of HD material. Stations and networks often have extensive facilities in place for their news operations.


Yep - though these also act as inertia. When a large news organisation switches field recording standards it has to make sure that it can still share media and file media from all the outposts it may need to. No point switching a network team to XDCam HD only to find that you need to file from an SNG truck that can only play Beta SP or DVCam, and only has SD connectivity to the outside world (requiring an XDCam camcorder to playout in SD).

If you are a smaller, centralised operation, it is MUCH easier to switch formats - far less inertia.


The flipside to those kind of operations is that various departments can act as nearly independent entities and inter-department fees can dissuade one from using the highest quality option.


Yep - and often off-air recordings can be used for less cost (or no cost) - under "fair dealing" (in the UK they can be used for "reporting current events" or "criticism or review") but it costs money if you try and acquire the clip on a broadcast quality format - often hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars for a minute or less. (Hence at least one show always airs clips recorded on a domestic PVR - a bit like a Tivo)

Often shows like Oprah will not have to pay to use this material ON a broadcast format, IF the material is being provided by the original provider as a promotional clip. So if a guest is on Oprah to plug a movie, book, TV show, music release etc. the material will usually be provided free of charge -and any duplication costs would be met by the provider, not the producer of the show.


Oprah's use of HD clips does demonstrate that they fully committed to a full HD transition and didn't take baby steps such as first converting the studio, then the field packages, then the external material etc.


Yep - but how many edit suites, recording areas, playout areas and studio control rooms does Oprah use? Totally different ball game to NBC Network News operations I'd imagine.

The other major thing to remember is that in smaller operations, one person can make a difference, and can "set the rules". Once you get to organisations at network level, there are policies and committees, and it becomes increasingly difficult for one person to really make a difference.


As for being a bit soft, some of that may be due to the fact that the show is produced in 1080i and 720p stations need to cross-convert it. Of coarse another reason is the obvious: Super crisp HD can be less than flattering.

The transition to HD has diminished the amount of shows with high levels of coarse detail enhancement. Perhaps one of the shows to benefit the most was the NBC's Today show. It looks quite good now, but in the SD days it was just horrendous with strong thick outlines. With HD the only place I see that much anymore is on some sports. They can look very French :D

I've noticed quite a lot of US HD studio stuff looks very soft, yet some sports looks very enhanced.

Some of the HD Golf we get from the US does look a bit "French" - and some of the floodlit tennis has very odd colourimetry.

I realize the complexity of converting a large news operation to HD, but in this case it's internal material which I would guess is easily available through routing. I don't know the details of NBC's routing to the various departments, but I would assume that HD connectivity exists between their central routing system and the news department if they are using a separate one via ties. My guess it wasn't viewed as a priority whether it be from a resource and/or financial perspective.

It's quite true that a single voice can be heard louder in a smaller operation than can be heard in a sea of beurocrasy. Even so it's impressive the priority given by some to obtain HD clips from external sources while others won't bother with more easily obtainable internal material. Perhaps those making this effort should get some feedback that it is appreciated.

CBS Paramont Television in general has stepped up their HD syndication efforts with Oprah, Dr Phil, ET, Insider, WOF, Jeopardy, CSI and Everybody Loves Raymond. Now if they only get Star Trek TOS in HD syndication!

WCBS shows HD sports highlights here. So does SNY (local sports RSN).

Thumbs up to ESPN for carrying live, HD bonus coverage of the Georgia-Auburn game from Raycom Sports when it looked like Auburn might take the lead in the 4th quarter.

Thumbs up to ESPN for carrying live, HD bonus coverage of the Georgia-Auburn game from Raycom Sports when it looked like Auburn might take the lead in the 4th quarter.
I saw that. That was very impressive. Between series or during commercial breaks, they would cut back to the studio so Holtz and crew could comment on the game, and then would go back. Huge thumbs up to ESPN for taking that kind of effort.

props to KCAL in L.A. for doing all Lakers road games in HD. I don't know how they do that. Do they bring their own camera or piggyback on someone else's feed?

the pre-game show with James Worthy is also in HD, complete with HD clips and highlights.

props to KCAL in L.A. for doing all Lakers road games in HD. I don't know how they do that. Do they bring their own camera or piggyback on someone else's feed?

the pre-game show with James Worthy is also in HD, complete with HD clips and highlights.
KCAL produces their own show using a rented production truck and equipment from various vendors across the country.

Boo to Espn who show The Chicago Bull highlights of their game in SD, even though it is broadcasted in HD. :mad:

I suspect Oprah has upgraded her entire production infrastructure, from traffic/lines record, through editing to the studio, because it is all on one site and nowhere near the same scale as a news operation.

It is MUCH easier to make smaller operations (like local news) all HD (even down to HD off-air recordings), and much easier to make larger operations that are self-contained all HD. Network News is probably one of the hardest genres to switch (and I suspect it doesn't generate as much revenue).

Obtaining receivers that can decrypt HD feed signals and archieving it is no small feat for a "smaller" operation though.

WCBS shows HD sports highlights here. So does SNY (local sports RSN).

WNBC does as well. As a matter of fact, they're sportscasts are sponsored in HD by Verizon.

WCBS shows HD sports highlights here. So does SNY (local sports RSN).

Interesting enough when I looked at WCBS-DT's Sunday Night Sport Highlight show around 45 days ago, it had large amount of SD material that KCBS-DT had in HD.

KCBS-DT's HD Sports Hightlights on Sunday Night has title sponsorship from one of the largest HDTV dealers in Southern California.

I'll have to see how much attention WNBC-DT is paying to it, but given their network's attention (as well as the NBC O&O's lack of detail to HDTV) I cannot believe they are going out of their way to get the HD footage.

WXYZ ABC Detroit, uses HD highlights from FOX, CBS, ESPN, Big Ten, and others for its HD newscasts and the 1/2 hour Sunday Sports Update.

I have to ask this because Scripp's other stations do not use HD Highlights from other sources - are you sure they are really HD and not just stretched, as the other Scripp's stations use?

I have to ask this because Scripp's other stations do not use HD Highlights from other sources - are you sure they are really HD and not just stretched, as the other Scripp's stations use?

WEWS ABC 5 Cleveland is owned by Scripps and they've recently been using lots of HD video in the news. I'll have to remember to watch local news tomorrow to make sure, but I have seen HD video clips on the news. One place I was surprised was when they were talking about Dancing with the Stars, they actually showed a HD clip of the show, looked to be full HD resolution and it was not stretched, the ABC bug was in it's correct location(4x3 safe).

If they're not using HD clips now, I wouldn't be surprised if that changes soon,as they have HD recording equipment. They were the first to show syndicated HD(before even having HD news) and now Oprah, CSI: NY and Miami, Boston Legal have been added to Wheel and Jeopardy. Plus I assume Regis will also be HD once the show starts. WEWS deserves a pat on the back for showing Nightline HD tape delayed when they decided to show an hour long 11pm news the day before election. Plus they also are really good at respecting aspect ratios. Even though their chopper has an SD camera, they show it with thier blue sidebars rather than stretching it. Same goes for all non 16x9 video.

NBC station WKYC shows many 16x9 highlights, most of them appear to obviously be digital widescreen, as the PQ is horrendous, similar to their DW live shots. Really makes me wish more sources could master digital widescreen like the fox network.

CBS station WOIO is a hot mess. Some content is shown wrong on that channel every day. Chopper video is always stretched. Even a live shot from the studio "B" was shown horribly(TBS style) stretched once. I honestly felt bad for the guy being interviewed. His shoulders looked bigger than a football player in pads from the stretching. I could imagine the horror of seeing yourself 20 lbs heavier in stretchovision:eek: Package video obnoxiously switches between sidebar and 16x9, PICK ONE FORMAT FOR THE ENTIRE PACKAGE!! And entire 16x9 packages have aired with sidebars squeezed.

Obtaining receivers that can decrypt HD feed signals and archieving it is no small feat for a "smaller" operation though.


Oh, that's not hard, it's just money. The authorization "hit" is the hard part.:)

I have to ask this because Scripp's other stations do not use HD Highlights from other sources - are you sure they are really HD and not just stretched, as the other Scripp's stations use?
Gee, I'm not sure if I know the difference between HD stretched SD.....let me see.....


Better yet, let me put the shoe on the other foot, are you sure the other Scripts stations aren't really doing HD highlights, because WXYZ is? Get real.

Gee, I'm not sure if I know the difference between HD stretched SD.....let me see.....Well an example would be if you watched Oprah and she looked wide - it's not stretched.

Oprah and she looked wide .

Ummmm...:p

Well an example would be if you watched Oprah and she looked wide - it's not stretched.

That may be a bad example. Not sure I've ever seen the 'O' not look wide, stretched SD or otherwise.

Well an example would be if you watched Oprah and she looked wide - it's not stretched.

If Oprah looks like this (http://k43.pbase.com/u11/jesse/upload/2564925.JabbaTheHutt.jpg), then you know that episode is stretched. :D:D:D;):D:p:p

I get this from the link:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /u11/jesse/upload/2564925.JabbaTheHutt.jpg on this server.


Oh well, I think I get the picture (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6479/op1cg8.jpg).


(http://imageshack.us)

I get this from the link:

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /u11/jesse/upload/2564925.JabbaTheHutt.jpg on this server.


Oh well, I think I get the picture (http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6479/op1cg8.jpg).


(http://imageshack.us)

OMG!! I think I saw that episode last week when I was flipping through the channels! I knew Oprah was getting big again, but that big? :p:p:p

Oh, that's not hard, it's just money. The authorization "hit" is the hard part.:)

thats exactly what I mean by "being able to decrypt".

Gee, I'm not sure if I know the difference between HD stretched SD.....let me see.....


Better yet, let me put the shoe on the other foot, are you sure the other Scripts stations aren't really doing HD highlights, because WXYZ is? Get real.

With all due respect, you and others need to raise your standards if you think WXYZ is doing a great job with HD Highlights.

On Sunday Nights Sports Update with Vic Faust, I wouldn't give the a pat on the back nor a thumbs up.

HD - DET/CAR Highlights
SD - Coach's comments after above game
SD - Piston/Suns
HD - Big Ten - Idaho/MSU in HD
SD - NASCAR
SD - PBA Tour
SD - MSU Coach Comments
SD - NW/ Michigan ESPN
SD - USC/Stanford VS
SD - CHI/GB Highlights FOX
SD - SD/PIT Highlights CBS
SD - BALT/NYG Highlights CBS
SD - TEN/JAX Highlights CBS
SD - PHL/CIN Highlights Fox
SD - OSU/IL ESPN

They cannot even show NASCAR highlights from the race they aired earlier in the day in HD?

Not my idea of what I started this thread for.

As for WNBC that was suggested, on the Mike'd Up Sports Final

HD - DAL/WAS Highlights NBC
SD 16:9 - Wade Phillips and Tony Romo comments post game
HD - BAL/NYG Highlights CBS
SD 16:9 - Tom Coughiln/Eli Manning comments post game
HD - PHI/CIN Highlights FOX
SD 16:9 - Andy Reid/Donovan McNabb comments post game
HD - TEN/JAX Highlights CBS
SD 16:9 - Jeff Fisher comments post game
HD - SD/PIT Highlights CBS
SD - Brewers story with SD footage from FSN
SD - Yankees story with SD footage from Astro/Yankees

Then they did something really strange - they showed Highlights of the Jets/Raiders Heidi Game and NBC News from 40 years ago in 16:9 and it was stretched. They actually chopped the 4:3 to a 16:9 frame! and the less than 480 resolution was really pretty bad.

They did the same thing for 30 years ago for Eagles/Giants Fumble game.

Now consider that the others listed here are 15 minute shows and this was a 30 minute show - you can see how little there was and imagine how much it dragged on (it really wasnt deep in highlights - more coaches and player comments after the fact).

MUCH better than WXYZ but slow boring pace as well as SD footage that they could have easily had HD footage of (not to mention leaving the old stuff alone - not making it worse quality).

WCBS wasn't even in the ballpark. Oh, they had 16:9 highlights, but once I saw they were running 60 Minutes highlights of the Obama's Interview in 4:3 during the news, my gut told me this was not going to be good - and it wasn't.

Yes, WCBS did have 16:9 highlights - but they had recorded the games in 480 widescreen and it looked HORRIBLE. I kept wondering why my TV was so out of focus with the highlights until I realized that it wasn't in HD - but was 480 Widescreen. Even with all that, they only had 4:3 of the TNN/JAX game from CBS, which is probably what they should have done for all the games as bad as it looked.

This was a failing effort in my book.

In comparison, the KCBS Sports Central (the one that had me wondering who the torch bearer was):

HD - SD/PIT
HD - OAK/MIA
HD - TEN/JAX
HD - Red Sox/Dodgers story (Player)
HD - USC/Stanford
SD - LBSU/WIS Big Ten (Was the game even in HD?)
HD - Lakers Highlights for Injured Player Story
HD - Ford 400/Sprint Cup - ABC (Something KABC nor WXYZ could even do!)
SD - NHRA Finals (do not believe was in HD however.......
HD - Local Interview with winner from above
HD - LA Kings/ANA Ducks

So KCBS continues to be the best at it in my book. During Baseball Season they had access to all the Baseball Game Highlights from all the Fox Regional Games in HD which, as noted in the previous post, really meant they had done some work to make this happen.

If another station is doing anything similar to KCBS-DT, they do deserve credit, but the bar needs to be raised on WXYZ, WCBS and WNBC (though surprisingly, I would have to say WNBC was second, though lacking).

What determines on CBS "NFL Today" when clips are shown in SD vs. HD? Their own game highlights aren't even shown half the time in HD! No pats there.

With all due respect, you and others need to raise your standards if you think WXYZ is doing a great job with HD Highlights.

On Sunday Nights Sports Update with Vic Faust, I wouldn't give the a pat on the back nor a thumbs up.?

Unfortunately, I don't run the station. Previous airings had more HD, IIRC last week the first 10-15 minutes were all HD highlights.

I find it amazing that the only company to do HD News correctly (and show all HD) was VOOM's HDNews channel.

I was amazed seeing all the HD clips while the networks showed the SD versions instead.

HDNews was way ahead of its time. Its one of the few VOOM channels I miss on Dish Network.