I'm adding up the peak wattage for all my amps, subwoofers, and so forth as I clearly need another hobby.

Anyways, for the sake of comparison, I was wondering if anyone happens to know how many watts of power there are in a typical movie theater and how pissed off my wife would be if I tried to replicated that.

Also, if I went ahead anyways, is there someone on the board who'd be willing to put me up in their home until the whole thing blew over?

But the main question is about the movie theater wattage thing.

Several Thousand watts...

To be more specific...The theater we just dismantled had a 3,000 watt system in it...

To be more specific...The theater we just dismantled had a 3,000 watt system in it...

First off, thanks to everyone for their input. Second, does a movie theater hit its peak wattage much more often than a HT system? 3000 watts just seems awfully low to fill a room that size.

depends on how sensitive the speakers are

depends on how sensitive the speakers are

That's an excellent point and I don't pretend to fully understand speaker efficiency. I knew there had to be some sort of explanation.

First off, thanks to everyone for their input. Second, does a movie theater hit its peak wattage much more often than a HT system? 3000 watts just seems awfully low to fill a room that size.

A room what size??? The theater we just dismantled was a small 75 seater...3000 clean pure watts is damn loud...;)

I have about 2 Kilowatts in my basement home theater (not counting the subwoofers). Granted I can only turn it up to 70% maximum before it becomes uncomfortable.

Even so, I guess incorrectly assumed that an exponentially larger space would require exponentially larger power to drive it (even a 75 seater). This is how we learn. :)

Thank you for taking the time to help with this. I seriously do appreciate it.

Well I have 1000 watts in my bedroom theater but I can assure you that consumer grade 1000 watts is about 1/10th...if even that much...of commercial grade...or professional grade...1000 watts...

You would easily need 2000 consumer watts + to begin even considering to be on par with just thinking of comparing to professional wattage let alone being on par...

And don't forget...Wattage is nothing without the speakers that go with it...The JBL's that the theater we used had to be lowered down using a block and tackle...Hell the horns are over 4 feet wide...Subs were quad 18's per box x 2...The mids cabinets are over 5 feet tall...With the system turned 2/3 up...It will pound the crap outta you...Zero distortion...

Well I have 1000 watts in my bedroom theater but I can assure you that consumer grade 1000 watts is about 1/10th...if even that much...of commercial grade...or professional grade...1000 watts...

You would easily need 2000 consumer watts + to begin even considering to be on par with just thinking of comparing to professional wattage let alone being on par...

And don't forget...Wattage is nothing without the speakers that go with it...The JBL's that the theater we used had to be lowered down using a block and tackle...Hell the horns are over 4 feet wide...Subs were quad 18's per box x 2...The mids cabinets are over 5 feet tall...With the system turned 2/3 up...It will pound the crap outta you...Zero distortion...How will I know the difference between "consumer grade watts, commercial grade watts or professional grade watts"? :confused:

How will I know the difference between "consumer grade watts, commercial grade watts or professional grade watts"? :confused:

Price... ;)

BTW...I am talking about 3000 watts per channel...not 3000 watts total...:)

WOW!!
I have to ask why anyone would need 3000 watts per channel for a room in their home.
I would think the size of the room would dictate heavily on how much wattage one needs to adequately fill a room.
3000 watts per channel in a room lets just say 15x19 is a bit over kill.
But hey, to each their own I guess. ;)

How many channels are there in a non-THX theater?

Hmm. Omnimax Theaters are under 12K watts of power.

Hmm. Omnimax Theaters are under 12K watts of power.

Hmmmm...Don't know where you are getting your information from...

The new OMNIMAX Theater sound system more than doubles the previous audio power—36,000 watts of audio power fed to 50 speakers in seven clusters, all of which are hidden behind the screen. You can hear the sound through the screen because it is perforated. We are the first theater in the world to install this newest speaker technology from Imax Corporation.

The two local IMAX theaters are 12,000 watts.

Art

Back in 1977, the Harbor Theater located downtown Muskegon, Michigan, had just renovated after a fire totally gutted the place. Well with only 500 watts of power and using Altec Lansing "Voice of the Theater" speakers during testing, they managed to crumble down one of the new side walls. The newspaper article stated they played a clip from Superman at much louder than required levels to do the damage. Of course they rebuilt that wall, but also reduced much of the external vibrations from each speaker cabinet by filling a cavity behind them with sand. If wattage is the only criteria for insane volume output, that rule surely did not apply to that theater, more likely SPL output.

This Omnimax list both 15,000 and 12,000 watts as their maximum: http://www.omsi.edu/omnimax

This Omnimax lists 11,600 Watts: http://www.glsc.org/visit/omnihome.php

While this one lists just over 15,000: http://www.bigmoviezone.com/txshows/theaters/index.html?uniq=568

However, the shape of the Omnimax dome may impart efficiencies not present in long rectangle-shaped theaters.

using Altec Lansing "Voice of the Theater" speakers during testing, they managed to crumble down one of the new side walls.

Whoa. I'm surprised no one damaged their hearing. I, for one, welcome our new "Voice of the Theater" overloads.

mine has 1.21 gigawatts but only because i bought a flux capacitor from the movie over ebay. :p

Monoplex, if I had been there at the time of testing, the only speaker I would have in my theater is "Voice of the Whisperer"

I'm afraid I was only able to afford the less popular Mr. Fission.

While this one lists just over 15,000: http://www.bigmoviezone.com/txshows/theaters/index.html?uniq=568



Bigmoviezone needs to update their site...;)

http://www.cincymuseum.org/explore_our_sites/omnimax/fun_facts/

the theater i worked at on a military base had over 15000 watts. all crown amps. the theater was rather large though, about 400 seats. i don't remember what model speakers, but they were all JBLs, 4 subs with 2 18" in each, and the 3 LCRs were tri-amped and each was about 7ft tall.

The Empire Leicester Square screen 1, London as to be by far hands down the only 56KW peak JBL THX sound system!:p:):D:cool:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1028209

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/EmpireLeicesterSquare3417/288071.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/EmpireLeicesterSquare3417/288073.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/EmpireLeicesterSquare3417/288072.jpg

Wow! OK, I have a new favourite.

These are the type of Crown Amps that the theater we dismanteled had...Only the 75 seater had FOUR of them...While the pictured installation utilizes SIX of them... ;)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/EmpireLeicesterSquare3417/288072.jpg

These are the type of Crown Amps that the theater we dismanteled had...Only the 75 seater had FOUR of them...While the pictured installation utilizes SIX of them... ;)

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn73/EmpireLeicesterSquare3417/288072.jpg

Those are just the surround channel amplifiers that are racked up in the booth. I was told when I visited the booth at Empire last year, that the stage amplifiers for five screen and each sub bass speaker remains behind the THX baffle wall to minimize speaker cable distance.

For 56K watts I believe it... ;)

For 56K watts I believe it... ;)

You better believe it with the "X-Files" all those crashes, bumps and rumbles with the snowplough pushing Mulder, over the cliff, was flipping LOUD! Even that dog barking was in my face with incredible realism front and centre.:eek::D:p:):cool:

Are there drink cups available that can fit my cupholders, match my seats, and keep drinks cold for hours without spillage or sweating when I fire up my 24K watt home theater amps? :confused:

I have heard it said that to accurately reproduce the sound a heavy pair of shears makes when the blades clack together requires 2000 watts. Of course that demand is only necessary for the slightest fraction of a second.

The lower the frequency the more power it takes to reproduce. Ten watts of treble will make your ears bleed. 2000 watts of subs running 40 hz just makes you feel good all over.

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts deliciously.

Enjoy.

Wow that is scary.

Are there drink cups available that can fit my cupholders, match my seats, and keep drinks cold for hours without spillage or sweating when I fire up my 24K watt home theater amps? :confused:

I'd also be sure to look for some sort of balm dispenser to help sooth charred flesh (with the heat generated and all).

Price... ;)

BTW...I am talking about 3000 watts per channel...not 3000 watts total...:)Sorry , I guess I do not understand your point?

A watt is a unit of power and would be the same regardless if it is a consumer grade watt, commercial grade watt or professional grade watt. And it's still a unit of power if it's per channel or total, regardless of the price.

You would easily need 2000 consumer watts + to begin even considering to be on par with just thinking of comparing to professional wattage let alone being on par...This simply makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense if you understand power the way you are trying to make it sound like you do...

Anyone that knows anything about power in relation to amplifiers knows there are different levels of quality of power and consumer wattage simply cannot and does not equate to the same wattage of commercial/professional wattage...

Sorry if you don't agree...You are the only one...

It makes perfect sense if you understand power the way you are trying to make it sound like you do...

Anyone that knows anything about power in relation to amplifiers knows there are different levels of quality of power and consumer wattage simply cannot and does not equate to the same wattage of commercial/professional wattage...

Sorry if you don't agree...You are the only one...Oh, I don't think I'm the only one... A watt is a unit of power, rate of energy conversion. It is measured the same regardless of what you may wish to call it. If a manufacturer choses to report it inaccurately, then I agree, it maybe different.

PS. - I've been using Crown amplifiers since 1969 starting with the DC300. You can find it in the legacy section on the Crown web site.

This may be going off on a tangent but don't speakers introduce far more distortion than even the lower-end amps (within reason)?

I'm running 14,000 in my demo theater (9000 ft^3). 7.1 system with quad subs, 2 shaker amps at a kilowatt per, triamped active main channels (each at 1750) plus 500 to each surround.
4.8 kilowatts on the subs, 20 and 30 amp lines off a dedicated sub panel. The smaller demo system is a measly 10300.

It is adequate.

Empire RULES OK!

I saw WOTW in the Empire when I was there a few years ago and believe it or not, I wasn't too impressed.

I saw WOTW in the Empire when I was there a few years ago and believe it or not, I wasn't too impressed.

Well if you had been reading the other thread you’ll understand?

Empire lost its power of might THX glory back around late of 1999 I think and had the original mighty damn powerful JBL THX sound system removed and it was replaced with crappy Martin Audio speakers screen five and surrounds. I was told that the only original part of the specification the x8 JBL 4645 remained still intact in the screens THX baffle wall.

The sound system was refurbished back in 2006 at cool £250.000, and believe me, I’ve been going to the cinema since 1989 and I’ve often seen the same film before seeing at the Empire and let me say.

The Star Trek films very sounded better at the Empire! All the other cinemas where I saw them at in my local cinema sounded rubbish. Detail was lost impact of bass slam depth kick shuddering vibration jolt was all in pristine wondrous clarity at the Empire and that was with the original 13KW JBL THX sound system, now then.

The new JBL 56KW THX sound system is back on top form, over the last dismal presentation that was Gladiator because they where using (Martin crappy Audio). I think the rack was loaded with QSC amplifiers, nothing wrong with QSC it was the crappy (Martin crappy Audio) now let me hear you say it…

Martin Crappy Audio!!!


Oh, there is just one more thing thou. What screen did you see (War of the Worlds 2005) in was it Empire 1 Empire 2 or Empire 3 as films move from screen to screen usually after 4 or 5 weeks depending on how long its booked in for.

EMPIRE RULES OK!!!

there really is differences in "wattage" when it comes to consumer gear and professional gear. Typical of the consumer marketplace, advertising is a little deceptive. There IS a difference between "100 watts per channel" and "100 watts per channel". In the consumer advertisement it will state: 100 watts per channel. Well, what that really means is, 100 watts peak output per channel, one channel driven. In commercial gear, it means 100 watts continuous output per channel, all channels driven.
This is VERY different.

So, in a five channel system, I would be much happier with a commercial 20 watt per channel professional system than a 100 watt per channel consumer grade system. The professional system will sound better (less distortion), run cooler, be operating in it's designed power range and have higher sound pressure levels and could sustain the levels indefinately.

there really is differences in "wattage" when it comes to consumer gear and professional gear. Typical of the consumer marketplace, advertising is a little deceptive. There IS a difference between "100 watts per channel" and "100 watts per channel". In the consumer advertisement it will state: 100 watts per channel. Well, what that really means is, 100 watts peak output per channel, one channel driven. In commercial gear, it means 100 watts continuous output per channel, all channels driven.
This is VERY different.You're drinking some very strong kool-aid, so I don't expect you to believe unless perhaps you do the research yourself.

A watt is a unit of power. It is equal to one joule of energy per second; a measured rate of energy conversion.

What you are describing is advertising claims and the difference between peak or dynamic and continuous power under some load reference. An example might look like this; 100w @ 8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz with a particular distortion level THD%. And, weather or not one or more channels are driven. You should also look for the words peak or dynamic vs. RMS.

It is confusing and I agree "consumer receivers" have a tendency to publish a peak power rating. But if you look you will find the information you need. I have also seen "consumer and professional" units power stated both ways.

Therefore, a watt is still a watt. You must be smart enough to understand what you're comparing.

So, in a five channel system, I would be much happier with a commercial 20 watt per channel professional system than a 100 watt per channel consumer grade system. The professional system will sound better (less distortion), run cooler, be operating in it's designed power range and have higher sound pressure levels and could sustain the levels indefinately.Again, it would depend upon the parameters describing how the power is stated. It's possible in your example that they could be equal.

Sound pressure is a different subject as well. Other factors affecting this would be speaker sensitivity, room size, placement of the measurement device, etc.

"You must be smart enough to understand what you're comparing"

No, you must be smart enough to realize the difference in how the power levels is stated. ;) Advertising "claims" often leave out little details like "peak" or "channels driven". If you are stating that manufacturers don't leave out the little details that matter and don't hide in the fine print somewhere if, they reveal it at all, you're obviously not shopping in the United States. :o

MidLife...b curry is one of those that has a closed mind...Once he thinks he is right...noone else is unless they agree with him...He refuses to understand that consumer vs. professional is NOT equal...Even though nobody is arguing the fact of the definition of 'watt' he continues on anyway...Let it go...It isn't worth your time...He is the only one here that thinks he knows it all and we are clueless...All because he has used Crown amps for years...Which I doubt...or he would automatically know what is being said here...Now he will come back and quote this post and the cycle continues...:rolleyes:

"You must be smart enough to understand what you're comparing"

No, you must be smart enough to realize the difference in how the power levels is stated. ;) Advertising "claims" often leave out little details like "peak" or "channels driven". If you are stating that manufacturers don't leave out the little details that matter and don't hide in the fine print somewhere if, they reveal it at all, you're obviously not shopping in the United States. :oAnd the example you would show me is from what manufactures web site???

"You must be smart enough to understand what you're comparing"

No, you must be smart enough to realize the difference in how the power levels is stated. ;) Advertising "claims" often leave out little details like "peak" or "channels driven". If you are stating that manufacturers don't leave out the little details that matter and don't hide in the fine print somewhere if, they reveal it at all, you're obviously not shopping in the United States. :oHere's a "consumer" Anthem AVM 30, 40, and 50.
http://www.anthemav.com/NewSitev2.0/AnthemProduct/MCASeries/MCASpecs/MCASeriesSpecs.html

Here's a "consumer" Anthem Statement A2 and A5.
http://statement.anthemav.com/HTML/Products/A_Series/Specs/A_Specs.html

Here's a "professional" Crown XLS.
http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xls.htm

Please, Splicer010 and MidLife, share your knowledge and explain how the watts are different, out side of the fact that the units are not equal in stated output power from a build / design point.

I attended electrical engineering college in the 1980s. I under stand about watts, amps, ohms law, resistance and other. I am stating that consumer electronic manufacturers intentionaly rate the power "output" of their equipment in such a way as to mislead the layman consumer. Unless the power output is measured with all channels being driven simultaneous, I belive this to be a deceptive claim. If you can't comprehend what I am saying, that's not my issue to remedy. :rolleyes:
When you go into the local BB or other place and see the portable "boom- Box" with the "400 watt per channel" bright red label with a $125 price tag, I certainly hope you dont purchase this and think you are going home with an amplifier delivering 800 watts in stereo.
I'm not going to track down the manufacturers that make these claims. You can do that research.
This should get you started down the right path, however! :)

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/home-theater-gear/66883-claimed-wattage-vs-real-power-post-if-you-dare.html

Oh, and I applaud Anthem and the other company for detailed spec sheets on their products.
However, this informatio is only available on the web in the fashion you presented. You would NOT see any of this info "front and center" on any consumer packaging and, I doubt, even on side panel of the packaging. You may have to actiually open the product packaging to find these product details, but, I cannot claim that as fact.

Oaky, fine, here is a Panasonic claim:

Panasonic SA-XR57

100W x 7, Component Home Theater Receiver

Maximum power consumption 140 watts

:rolleyes:

I attended electrical engineering college in the 1980s. I under stand about watts, amps, ohms law, resistance and other. I am stating that consumer electronic manufacturers intentionaly rate the power "output" of their equipment in such a way as to mislead the layman consumer. Unless the power output is measured with all channels being driven simultaneous, I belive this to be a deceptive claim. If you can't comprehend what I am saying, that's not my issue to remedy. :rolleyes:
When you go into the local BB or other place and see the portable "boom- Box" with the "400 watt per channel" bright red label with a $125 price tag, I certainly hope you dont purchase this and think you are going home with an amplifier delivering 800 watts in stereo.
I'm not going to track down the manufacturers that make these claims. You can do that research.
This should get you started down the right path, however! :)

http://forums.highdefdigest.com/home-theater-gear/66883-claimed-wattage-vs-real-power-post-if-you-dare.htmlI see, now we have moved from "consumer vs. professional' to boom boxes at best buy.

Sorry, I only asked you or Splicer010 to please explain the clam of different watts "consumer vs. professional". If you "attended electrical engineering college in the 1980s", I was hopeful you could enlighten me, vis a vis your claims and others that the watts are different and that "professional" is better.

So, in a five channel system, I would be much happier with a commercial 20 watt per channel professional system than a 100 watt per channel consumer grade system. The professional system will sound better (less distortion), run cooler, be operating in it's designed power range and have higher sound pressure levels and could sustain the levels indefinately.I just want to understand why you think this is true. Please show me your data.

Oh, and I applaud Anthem and the other company for detailed spec sheets on their products.
However, this informatio is only available on the web in the fashion you presented. You would NOT see any of this info "front and center" on any consumer packaging and, I doubt, even on side panel of the packaging. You may have to actiually open the product packaging to find these product details, but, I cannot claim that as fact..The other company is a "professional" company BTW.

You're right, I've never seen it on the box either. But it is generally in the owners manual listed under "specifications". And, If you visit your local dealer, he generally, not always, has a tear sheet from the manufacture with the info. I believe it is available other than the web, but who cares, it is available and it looks like you have a computer that is connected to the Internet so you can find it.

Now before you get too pi$$ed off, I too agree it can be confusing. As a mater of fact it is exactly this same type of confusion that led to our Federal Government, the FTC to be specific, enacting a law requiring amplifier manufactures to quote power specifications in a standardized format. IIRC some time in the late 1970's. For what ever reason, this law or standard for reporting has been relaxed or modified in 2001. The FTC method of reporting power is more conservative.

The other way to report power is the EIA (Electronic Industries Alliance) method which is more generous in its claims of "watts" than the FTC method. It is not wrong, but it is different and it makes the amplifier look better if you do not understand what your looking at or understand the parameters. But please, don't take my word for it. Goggle the FTC amplifier or EIA amplifier specifications an look of your self.

Here, I'll help you out a little... http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/12/amprule.shtm

My objection to your and more so Splicer010's posts are the broad statements that "professional is better than consumer watts". The difference is how they are measured and reported, not "professional vs. consumer".

A little FYI or something to chew on for Splicer010 while he's making fun; there really were no "professional" amplifiers per se in the 1970's. Pink Floyds Dark Side of the Moon tour was done with "consumer watts"; Phase Linear founded by Bob Carver. Maybe you would like to read a little bit about it...

In an A/B text during rehearsals, the band's existing WEM amplifiers came second place to the new American Phase Linear models, discovered by Kelsey, and so yet another injection of quality was given to their PA. It was common for Pink Floyd to modify off-the-shelf equipment for their own purposes, thereby creating unique products. Along with Crown and BGW, Phase Linear became one of the few brands of amplification taken seriously by the top touring bands of the early '70s. Whilst the Phase Linear 400 and 700 models were taken on board by the Floyd, because of their superior sound quality, in their regular domestic format they were unfit for the rigors of the road due to their slight physical construction and the weight of the transformers on their chassis. To compensate for this, the band's technicians designed a new metal chassis into which the amp would fit, while the mains transformer was removed from the amp and supported horizontally on the outside of the chassis."
More here if you like... http://www.pinkfloyd-co.com/band/interviews/art-rev/art-sos1.html

Oaky, fine, here is a Panasonic claim:

Panasonic SA-XR57

100W x 7, Component Home Theater Receiver

Maximum power consumption 140 watts

:rolleyes:Please link to the manufactures specifications.

You have stated 100w x 7 and that it consumes 140 watts. There are no parameters stated???:confused::rolleyes:

"Sorry, I only asked you or Splicer010 to please explain the clam of different watts "consumer vs. professional". If you "attended electrical engineering college in the 1980s", I was hopeful you could enlighten me, vis a vis your claims and others that the watts are different and that "professional" is better."

I am truly sorry you can't grasp the consumer marketing tactics I am referring to. :rolleyes:
My attempts to "enlighten" you are complete and have failed.

"In an A/B text during rehearsals, the band's existing WEM amplifiers came second place to the new American Phase Linear models, discovered by Kelsey, and so yet another injection of quality was given to their PA. It was common for Pink Floyd to modify off-the-shelf equipment for their own purposes, thereby creating unique products. Along with Crown and BGW, Phase Linear became one of the few brands of amplification taken seriously by the top touring bands of the early '70s. Whilst the Phase Linear 400 and 700 models were taken on board by the Floyd, because of their superior sound quality, in their regular domestic format they were unfit for the rigors of the road due to their slight physical construction and the weight of the transformers on their chassis. To compensate for this, the band's technicians designed a new metal chassis into which the amp would fit, while the mains transformer was removed from the amp and supported horizontally on the outside of the chassis."

and this states what? :rolleyes:
Crown, Anthem, BGW, Phase Linear?????
What the heck does that have to do with watt or power output specifications?
I am always amused that folks come on here assuming the masses have no education or learning on topics. :rolleyes:

"Please link to the manufactures specifications."


Google the PDF, dude, that's what you've asked me to do.....:rolleyes:

Oaky, fine, here is a Panasonic claim:

Panasonic SA-XR57

100W x 7, Component Home Theater Receiver

Maximum power consumption 140 watts

:rolleyes:Dude... and your claim is "...I attended electrical engineering college in the 1980s." Ask for a refund!

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I concede b curry to be the last standing offical purveor of electrical engineering authority for the forum. I wont add any additional comment.

Wow my ears hurt listening to this. :D

My ears hurt too, I think there is a little too much harmonic distortion in this discussion.

Bob, I have to disagree here, that watts are not simply watts.
Even though there may some standard in how wattage is advertised and displayed for an amplifier, whether commercial or consumer, there is a lot of creativity used by manufacturers to make their specs look better than the competition.
Just for some raw numbers to use as examples, these are not necessarily accurate for any of the above mentioned amps, but it will give me a baseline with which to explain a couple things.

Wattage is a measure of power, and mathematically in the case of amps, it is derived by voltage into impedance. So by calculating that 200 watts would be 40 Volts into an 8 ohm load, we have a starting point. We also need to assume that 40/8 results in a current flow of 5 amps. An over-simplification, but again it is only a baseline.

The first trick that amp makers will use, as MidLife stated, is not rating at all channels driven. If the above mentioned amp is to run at 200 watts into 5 channels, in order to deliver its power steadily, the power supply that is driving the rail voltage must be capable of 25 amps. No small feat! If the power supply cannot do this, the power output will drop as all channels are going to the same well at once for current, resulting in reduced power, and greatly increased distortion.

The second trick common is not rating their power across the entire frequency spectrum. An amp that is rated at 200 watts at 1kHz will not necessarily be able to deliver the same power at 20Hz. To do so requires a much larger power supply, coupled with high current output devices, all of which cost the manufacturer much more to build. Without any knowledge of electrical engineering, it is easy to see that there is a tremendous difference in power requirements between making a tweeter diaphragm which is the size of a postage stamp tremble vs moving a large woofer cone back and forth while keeping it under control.

The third common trick is rating power at higher harmonic distortion. RMS power should mean 68.3% of the peak capable power. Think of it like RPMs on a motor, there is a sweet spot where the engine is running, not too hot, but fast enough to deliver its highest horsepower. This is the “RMS zone” of an amp. If the amp built to deliver 50 watts RMS, it can hit short duration peaks of double that or more, so sometimes the amp make will rate it with the peak power, even though it cannot deliver steady power at that rating.

Again, it may be an oversimplification, but you really need to consider the cost, the physical size and weight, and the quality of amp and not just look at its rated wattage. A Sony 2x100w amp is not even in the same ballpark as a Mark Levinson 2x100w that costs $10,000 and weighs 180 lbs. Your examples of comparing Anthem to Crown is are a little too close together; both are very high quality manufacturers, although they are catering to a different market.

In order to be fully educated on a given amp, manufacturers should display wattage, power supply specs, current capability, slew rate, how much total power the amp can deliver at one time, etc. Unfortunately the general masses are confused enough by a simple wattage rating. I have heard many people think that hooking a 200 watt amp up would blow their speakers, not understanding that the 50watt amp that they have is delivering more distortion, and more clipping and is probably harder on their speakers than the higher power would be. I have also had people sit in my theater and ask why it isn’t louder, again not understanding the difference between clean undistorted power vs a noisy distorted sound that seems louder due to THD.

Wattage is the layman’s rating for their audio equipment, and is little more than a marketing trick in most cases. If we were all electrical engineers, then by definition a watt is a watt. However in the world of consumer electronics, it has become a sales tool rather than an accurate rating by which to find the right amp.

Warren...in some ways I agree, in some ways I disagree, particularly when it comes to commercial amps vs the high end products. Judging a product on weight alone does not necessarily give you the true story of the performance of the product versus the value offered. Lets take that Mark Levinson amp as an example. It is rated at 100 watts/ch and has the ability to deliver a lot more power into a transitory peak. Lets say it will do 300 watts on peaks, giving it the benefit of the doubt. Is it a "better" amp than...say a Crown Macrotech 5000VZ which retails for 1/3rd the price and is rated to delver a minimum of 1090 w/ch with both channels driven 20hz to 20khz. If you have a large home theater and speakers which are moderately efficient, I'd have to say no. The Levinson amp would be running close to its' output limits and into the rising distortion region on very large transients. The Macrotech would be just barely breaking a sweat, and that is running well within its limits. Pushed hard, the Crown will deliver about 1.5 kilowatts on a single cycle burst. It doesn't deliver...say twice its rated power but the normal output power capabilities are so high that it doesn't need to.

Weight wise, lets examine that too. The Levinson weighs 180 lbs, the Crown weighs 77 lbs. Which is the better engineered product? I'd argue the Crown. The power supply on the Levinson must be horribly inefficient to require it to be that size and require that much heat sink area. The Crown is a much more efficient design where nothing is wasted. The Crown is likely to always remain in the lowest distortion regions because of it's massive and technically honest rated power output capabilities and it does so without weighing in at 180 lbs. Yes, there are certainly amps which distort their power ratings, I'd put most consumer level AV products into that category much more so than most better commercial amps. I seriously question the overinflated value of a vast majority of the high end audio products out there which do not offer superior technical or sound quality abilities in comparison with many of the better commercial amps. Weight is also a fluctuating proposition in both the high end and the commercial power industry as ultra efficient digital switching amps come on line and are developed. It is not unusual to see well rated products in the consumer and commercial market with massive amounts of power with very low weight.

Anyone that knows anything about power in relation to amplifiers knows there are different levels of quality of power and consumer wattage simply cannot and does not equate to the same wattage of commercial/professional wattage...


LOL....this is ridiculous. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

LOL....this is ridiculous. Please stop embarrassing yourself.
For once i actually completely agree with a statement from duvetyne :eek:

My ears hurt too, I think there is a little too much harmonic distortion in this discussion.

Bob, I have to disagree here, that watts are not simply watts.
Even though there may some standard in how wattage is advertised and displayed for an amplifier, whether commercial or consumer, there is a lot of creativity used by manufacturers to make their specs look better than the competition.
Just for some raw numbers to use as examples, these are not necessarily accurate for any of the above mentioned amps, but it will give me a baseline with which to explain a couple things.

Wattage is a measure of power, and mathematically in the case of amps, it is derived by voltage into consumer. So by calculating that 200 watts would be 40 Volts into an 8 ohm load, we have a starting point. We also need to assume that 40/8 results in a current flow of 5 amps. An over-simplification, but again it is only a baseline.

The first trick that amp makers will use, as MidLife stated, is not rating at all channels driven. If the above mentioned amp is to run at 200 watts into 5 channels, in order to deliver its power steadily, the power supply that is driving the rail voltage must be capable of 25 amps. No small feat! If the power supply cannot do this, the power output will drop as all channels are going to the same well at once for current, resulting in reduced power, and greatly increased distortion.

The second trick common is not rating their power across the entire frequency spectrum. An amp that is rated at 200 watts at 1kHz will not necessarily be able to deliver the same power at 20Hz. To do so requires a much larger power supply, coupled with high current output devices, all of which cost the manufacturer much more to build. Without any knowledge of electrical engineering, it is easy to see that there is a tremendous difference in power requirements between making a tweeter diaphragm which is the size of a postage stamp tremble vs moving a large woofer cone back and forth while keeping it under control.

The third common trick is rating power at higher harmonic distortion. RMS power should mean 68.3% of the peak capable power. Think of it like RPMs on a motor, there is a sweet spot where the engine is running, not too hot, but fast enough to deliver its highest horsepower. This is the “RMS zone” of an amp. If the amp built to deliver 50 watts RMS, it can hit short duration peaks of double that or more, so sometimes the amp make will rate it with the peak power, even though it cannot deliver steady power at that rating.

Again, it may be an oversimplification, but you really need to consider the cost, the physical size and weight, and the quality of amp and not just look at its rated wattage. A Sony 2x100w amp is not even in the same ballpark as a Mark Levinson 2x100w that costs $10,000 and weighs 180 lbs. Your examples of comparing Anthem to Crown is are a little too close together; both are very high quality manufacturers, although they are catering to a different market.

In order to be fully educated on a given amp, manufacturers should display wattage, power supply specs, current capability, slew rate, how much total power the amp can deliver at one time, etc. Unfortunately the general masses are confused enough by a simple wattage rating. I have heard many people think that hooking a 200 watt amp up would blow their speakers, not understanding that the 50watt amp that they have is delivering more distortion, and more clipping and is probably harder on their speakers than the higher power would be. I have also had people sit in my theater and ask why it isn’t louder, again not understanding the difference between clean undistorted power vs a noisy distorted sound that seems louder due to THD.

Wattage is the layman’s rating for their audio equipment, and is little more than a marketing trick in most cases. If we were all electrical engineers, then by definition a watt is a watt. However in the world of consumer electronics, it has become a sales tool rather than an accurate rating by which to find the right amp.Exactly my point. A watt is a unit or measure of power. No question, if a manufacture embellishes the measure by quoting the rating at 6 ohms vs. 8, or one unit has a more robust power supply, then you must be savy enough understand this. I also agree that it is confusing for many, as I have stated in earlier posts.

My argument is not that manufactures do or do not manipulate specifications, it's the wholesale statement about professional vs. consumer or vice versa being better.

As I stated earlier, the FTC required at one time that all amplifier specification be quoted to the same standard of load, distortion, etc., the "RMS method" if you will. This was done to level the playing field and give the average Joe a reasonable chance to get what he paid for. For what ever reason this is no longer required.

To state that a "professional watt" is better than a "consumer watt" or the other way around is just absurd!

PS. To add to your listed enlightenments, most people do not understand that they are using something less than 10 watts of power in an average room in the average home assuming normal listening levels.

I bought a system that supposedly came out of a small demo theater set up at Loud Technologies. It consists of EAW speakers (3 mains and 6 surrounds), and Mackie amps.

Each main is bi-amped off of a 2600 watt amp. Each surround gets half of a 1400 watt amp. Totals to 12,000 watts. I suspect they probably had subwoofers on top of this, but none were included in the package.

These pictures are old. The system is up and running now. I have the amp gains set at one click and I can get to seriously uncomfortable listening levels. Currently I'm running the whole setup off a single 15 amp circuit and I haven't tripped it yet, so the amps even breaking a sweat yet.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7473/dsc01713zs1.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1434/dsc02899sb3.jpg

Very nice!!! :)

This calculator provides the required electrical power (power output from the amplifier) to produce a desired Sound Pressure Level (SPL) at a given distance, along with an amount of headroom to keep the amplifier(s) out of clip.

Example: You are designing a system where the farthest listening position from the loudspeaker is 100 meters, and the desired Sound Pressure Level is 85 dB SPL The loudspeaker chosen for the job has a sensitivity rating of 95 dB. With the minimum recommended amplifier headroom of 3 dB, then you need to choose an amplifier that can supply at least 1,995 watts to the loudspeaker.


Amplifier Power Required
http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

I guess this thread has ran out of wattage. LOL :D

Snap.-.I've Got The power :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRv9wGf5pk

Just for giggles--not exactly a theater but an interesting challenge being outdoors. The Grand Haven musical fountain--the primary listening area is across a channel, it must be about 100 yards away (just a guess) They state 130db plus at the shoreline (listening area I am guessing but not certain, not sure if its a frequency range, or just at 1k, or whatever)

System:

(32) 18", 600 watt JBL subwoofers
(12) High-frequency JBL horns (30"x 30"x 6' deep)
(14) Power amplifiers (35,000 watts total)
(4) Independent zones of control:
Equalization
Electronic signal distribution
Audio and GPI control supplied by an ENCO DAD professional broadcast audio playout system
Frequency dividing
Power level attenuation
About a mile and a half of cable
Total system output (at the shoreline) in excess of 130dB
Watts per channel: 12,000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Haven_Musical_Fountain

So buy those speakers, give them 12,000 watts per channel, and let your whole neighborhood listen.

My 200 Watts per channel is more than I’ll ever need....

I’m working on something big:D

I have a 5 seat theater and have just around 1kW per seat.

Overkill? nope :-)

I don't use all the power in my car all the time either, but it's nice to have.

I think a mighty Saturn V would use all its power and yes its necessary for it to escape the gravity pull of the Earth.

I wonder how all this convert to voltage. A simple layman's terms would suffice, not a load of gobbly gook.

I guess its okay to fantasize about BIG Kilowatts of mega power.