Its time to upgrade my subwoofer. I have a 2500 cubic foot room, but bigger rooms are coming. I am building a house and want a subwoofer that will not leave me wanting when my home theater gets larger. All of these have about the same specs on paper, so I'm looking suggestions which would set them apart.:confused:
HSU VTF3 MK3
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html
Epik Knight
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/KnightOverview.html
SVS PB12 NSD
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm
Outlaw LFM-1 plus
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

Based on performance alone, I'd recommend the Knight over all of the others, especially if its main use will be for HT. However, Epik is out of parts for everything but their Conquest and is not even accepting orders for anything else. Not sure when you'll be able to place an order, but you can bet on a good 5-6 week wait once you do order. If a wait doesn't bother you, I'd go with the Knight hands down. That said, all four subs are very capable and should handle that room well. I haven't dealt with Hsu or Outlaw personally, though I have heard great things about their products and customer service. I have owned SVS in the past and can say that their products are high quality and their service is unmatched by any company I have ever dealt with. Good luck with your decision, but IMO you can't really go wrong with any of those choices.

How about AV123 MFWs...I was living with a pair until very recently. I also loved all 3 of my SVS subs. The MFWs went to live somewhere else only because of a size issue, but they sounded fantastic.

I am surprised the SVS gets more votes than the HSU with 25 less watts, is the HSU a BASH digital amp? It does not state it is, is this important?

ravingndrooling: AV123's website is down, or all their links will not work for me currently anyways.

Yes it is click on the closeup of the amp on HSU's product page:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html

there's clearly a BASH logo

I'll also throw eD into the ring:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=618

Should beat all of those except possibly the Knight and is equivalently priced once you factor in free shipping

well, i have owned the HSU VTF3 MKII (w/ turbo) and let me tell you for a 12" sub w/ only 350watts it was one HELL of a sub!!! i really wish i hadn't sold it to be honest....i would have liked to keep it with my 2 mfw15's and used it almost like an MBM. ah well.

SVS makes awesome products as well. I have never used either eD or Epik, but since they have almost no finish options i think they kinda look like a home made sub. personally, i want my stuff to look as good as it sounds.

SVS makes awesome products as well. I have never used either eD or Epik, but since they have almost no finish options i think they kinda look like a home made sub. personally, i want my stuff to look as good as it sounds.

For the price range he's talking about, SVS has zero finish options too unless you're looking at the SB12. Epik's textured black and eD's new matte finish look very close to good ol' satin black to me.

The knight if you can wait or the hsu if you want it now. ED's wait supposedly isn't as bad but I canceled mine around the 4wk mark and went with something else.

I am surprised the SVS gets more votes than the HSU with 25 less watts, is the HSU a BASH digital amp? It does not state it is, is this important?

ravingndrooling: AV123's website is down, or all their links will not work for me currently anyways.


A 25 watt difference in this group makes no difference. It is the total package that counts.

I would wait a while until Epik is taking orders again and get the Epik.

another option and this is what i would do personally, is look on audiogon for a used hsu vtf3 mkii or svs. you'll get a lot more sub for a lot less money and get it right away. fleabay is also a good place to look

Yes it is click on the closeup of the amp on HSU's product page:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html

there's clearly a BASH logo

I'll also throw eD into the ring:
http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_41&products_id=618

Should beat all of those except possibly the Knight and is equivalently priced once you factor in free shipping

I know HSU's have the BASH logo, but SVSs website says BASH digital. Does this make a difference? Are they all digital?

I bought an SVS PB12 NSD sub over a HSU over 2 years ago (Just to be different from my family who all swear by HSU subs) and it was a really good sub. However, I kept sending in for a new amp, and eventually ended up selling it on Ebay.

I currently own the VTF-3.3 with Turbo + the MBM-12 midbass module; I have to tell you that the HSU (At least to me and all of my brothers) is the choice. I bought HSU because my 4 brothers all own HSU, my uncle owns a HSU, nd my best friend owns a HSU----AND THEY ALL SWEAR BY IT. NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER--PERFECT SERVICE--ZERO DRAMA. If you want to buy from a company that stays with you after long they already made the sale...look no farther.

When you're buying a sub, the first thing you look for is one that works for you. Secondly, you need to know if the product is trustworthy...if it has a great track record. NO sub maker has the customer satisfaction record of DR HSU. They have the BEST customer satisfaction record bar none. Of course a lot of members here try to sell you their preferred brand, but you do your own research.

I bought an SVS PB12 NSD sub over a HSU over 2 years ago (Just to be different from my family who all swear by HSU subs) and it was a really good sub. However, I kept sending in for a new amp, and eventually ended up selling it on Ebay.

I currently own the VTF-3.3 with Turbo + the MBM-12 midbass module; I have to tell you that the HSU (At least to me and all of my brothers) is the choice. I bought HSU because my 4 brothers all own HSU, my uncle owns a HSU, nd my best friend owns a HSU----AND THEY ALL SWEAR BY IT. NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER--PERFECT SERVICE--ZERO DRAMA. If you want to buy from a company that stays with you after long they already made the sale...look no farther.

When you're buying a sub, the first thing you look for is one that works for you. Secondly, you need to know if the product is trustworthy...if it has a great track record. NO sub maker has the customer satisfaction record of DR HSU. They have the BEST customer satisfaction record bar none. Of course a lot of members here try to sell you their preferred brand, but you do your own research.

i would definitely agree the HSU subs are excellent bar none! you can not go wrong with one for sure. price is a little higher, but..they do make an excellent product.

I find that on several similar subs in the Hsu and Outlaw Audio lineup that the Outlaws seem to be more powerful and may go lower...it may be 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other though...I had an LFM-1 (original) and loved it...so I voted Outlaw...
Bill

I had the original LFM 1, it was a good sub for movies but I'm 80% music so I wound up replacing it with a REL as you can mix it's main and LFE input.

I still use my ten year old NHT with the MA-1A external amp with SW2P 10" cone. You can find them used for less than $200. I love that the MA-IA amp is in my AV cabinet and for all these years it is trouble free!!!!

Bit the bullet and pulled the trigger....Hsu MK3 is on the way! Here are some things that came to stand out to me in my decision, bash if you like.

Hsu: 15% off ends Wed, or so I was told?

SVS: Problems with reliability? Some people commented on how great the people were to deal with when they had failure.

Epik: Do I really want to buy from someone who can't get the parts to put their stuff together?

Outlaw: Consulted Dr. Hsu in design. Why not get it first hand?

BTW all fanboys please count to 10 before keyboard racing. All of the these guys are phenom subs and I would have been equally pleased with all in my 15x15 room.;)

The Outlaw LFM-1EX is on sale now for $519, quite a bargain. I have owned one for awhile now, real nice. The down-firing design and plexiglass top are what sold me, but I'm sure the HSU sub will sound great as well, it comes down to personal preference. Good luck with your new sub, enjoy!

if you are talking 2500cu ft room with plans for a larger room i would say none of the subs listed would be enough. for theater no, but i guess we all learn the hard way, i know i have.
if you stay 2500 cu ft you would be ok. my vote would be the knight, but they are backloged.
i have twin towers in 2400 cu ft room so i am not quite right. just wish it was twin conquests.

The Outlaw LFM-1EX is on sale now for $519, quite a bargain. I have owned one for awhile now, real nice. The down-firing design and plexiglass top are what sold me, but I'm sure the HSU sub will sound great as well, it comes down to personal preference. Good luck with your new sub, enjoy!

where is it on sale for $519?

www.outlawaudio.com/blackfriday.html

thanks!

out of curiosity, how does the Elemental Designs A3 - 300 compare to the subs listed in this thread?

I am surprised the SVS gets more votes than the HSU


lol, more SVS fanboys on this site....The poll isnt scientific, its just shows what the most popular brand is. This doesnt mean SVS isnt good but it shouldn't equate to it being the best either just based on a silly poll.

Of course we know that the PB13 has had great reviews and in two independent tests its near or at the top of all choices when ignoring $$$


My vote is to build your own sub....then you will have something that can kick the butt of all these choices and you will never compromise with comercial stuff again ;)

thanks!

out of curiosity, how does the Elemental Designs A3 - 300 compare to the subs listed in this thread?


Would love to hear the thoughts on this as well...
Bill

warlord260,
I always think of two 6 feet tall sonosubs when you say twin towers LOL.

warlord260,
I always think of two 6 feet tall sonosubs when you say twin towers LOL.

really? I think Lord of the Rings...haha

any more input on this thread, as I am considering many of the same subs. What's the cleanest/best rounded of the bunch? Is there something smaller or perhaps one of the SVS cylinder subs which would perform similarly without such a large footprint? Are there really reliability issues with SVS subs? Customer service is great but not having to send something back that's going to cost alot to ship is good too...

Glad I picked up the MK3 when I did it just went up by $100:eek:

Thanks little birdy.

yeah, i saw that! :( i was wondering which way you went--congrats! I'm still deciding...

Bit the bullet and pulled the trigger....Hsu MK3 is on the way! Here are some things that came to stand out to me in my decision, bash if you like.

Hsu: 15% off ends Wed, or so I was told?

SVS: Problems with reliability? Some people commented on how great the people were to deal with when they had failure.

Epik: Do I really want to buy from someone who can't get the parts to put their stuff together?

Outlaw: Consulted Dr. Hsu in design. Why not get it first hand?

BTW all fanboys please count to 10 before keyboard racing. All of the these guys are phenom subs and I would have been equally pleased with all in my 15x15 room.;)

Congrats...great choice.:)