Hello all,
I am having troubles deciding which sub to keep I have had the Epik Knight for about a year and I love it, But i got a offer I couldnt refuse on a new MFW 15 with my rocket package, I ended up getting it for $225 shipped now I know most of you are going to say just keep it but I know i can sell either of these locally for $400 with out even trying.
Heres pics for any curious of the size difference the Epik was in my new room during some of the construction so its a wee bit dusty

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/dundydotcom/DSCI0132.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/dundydotcom/DSCI0133.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/dundydotcom/DSCI0134.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v600/dundydotcom/DSCI0135.jpg

Obviously the MFW 15 is the best looking one and they are sending me a free rosewood faceplate for it to match the rest of the speakers as soon as they get them but the best place for the sub in the room is in the back with the front facing the left so I wouldnt see it anyway

I have had 1 day with each sub, Avia and a SPL meter, believe it or not the best place for both of them is in almost exactly the same spot I went all the way up and down the side walls and back wall 1.5' at a time with the woofer facing left/right and forward. the only place I have left to try is in the front on the right in between the tv and right tower, but im a little burnt out on the low freq sweep right now

So what I noticed on the subs is they both stay -+2dB from 85-53hz then the Epik goes plus 10dB atleast for the remainder of the sweep down to 20hz
the MFW on the other hand goes 10db plus after that too until the sweep gets down to about 38hz then continually drops with the frequency and bottoms out at 25hz

I would assume that I would want to keep the Epik at this point but I have the MFW hooked up now so I can listen to it for awhile and while going through a demo disc I have been using to show off the new system to friends I noticed it seems to be tighter than the Epik notable on the pod race scene

I am looking for advice on other ways to find out which one is better other than just relying on my ears, I know what sounds good to me but I am not a pro and would hate to give the wrong one up

Thanks

Does it really make sense to look to others for advice when you are the one able to directly compare these two subs together in the same room? You're in far better position than anyone else to decide which one to keep.

Did you have them hooked up together at the same time???

Keep the knight, and sell me your MFW-15!

All I can say is Epik definitely made the right decision changing the finish on their subs to be a smoother, more natural black! My month old Castle looks like fine furniture compared to Epik's first batch of subs.

Well, that and good luck choosing to the OP. Both subs are probably great performers! We on AVS really want you to keep both and give detailed comparisons. You're one of only a couple of people on this forum who have heard both the Knight and the MFW-15, and I think the only one who has used them both in the same room/setup. Your thoughts would be invaluable :).

So what you're saying is from the exact location the subwoofers have different frequency responses?

I find this very difficult to believe. Can you go over your methodology?

I have measured three subwoofers in my room and down to 25 hz all measured nearly identically.

you have a mfw-15 that works?
and also i didnt know epik changed their finish, i thought that was ed

Does it really make sense to look to others for advice when you are the one able to directly compare these two subs together in the same room? You're in far better position than anyone else to decide which one to keep.

If you would have read the post completely you would have saw that I was asking for good methods to compare them other than the ones I have already used, but thank you for the useless comment.

The method I used was the Avia low freq sweep and a radio shack spl meter and in the same spot the MFW starts dropping at 38hz and continues down with the frequency where as the Epik does not.

This is the early Epiks I bought this discounted right when they started the new finish which is much smoother, not as smooth as the MFW ofcourse, but even this finish looks great compared to Ed no offense to them, I live 45min from Elemental Designs and visited them before purchasing the Epik and the 15 they had there was ugly as hell IMO i wasnt going to spend 600 on something that ugly, I can live with the Epiks looks.

So what you're saying is from the exact location the subwoofers have different frequency responses?

I find this very difficult to believe. Can you go over your methodology?

I have measured three subwoofers in my room and down to 25 hz all measured nearly identically.

So what your basically saying any three sub woofers different manufactures will have the same frequency response in your room down to 25hz? I would like to see a pic of that.

If you would have read the post completely you would have saw that I was asking for good methods to compare them other than the ones I have already used, but thank you for the useless comment.Why would you want a way to compare them other than using your own ears? That, after all, is the best method.

If you would have read the post completely you would have saw that I was asking for good methods to compare them other than the ones I have already used, but thank you for the useless comment.


Alrighty then. :rolleyes: Best of luck with your choice.

So what your basically saying any three sub woofers different manufactures will have the same frequency response in your room down to 25hz? I would like to see a pic of that.

You're right - it was not identical. Poor word choice on my part. Within a few dB yea they had the same frequency response when using test tones and SPL meter. These are the three subwoofers I am referring to.

SVS 20-39 PC+
HSU VTF-3 HO
MFW-15

From 100 to 25 they measured about the same - I assumed this would be due to the fact that most subwoofer manufacturers are aiming for a flat frequency response and the room is what makes the difference. I'm not talking about maximum SPL I'm just talking about what the frequency response graph looks like. Below 25 hz I'm sure you're going to start to see a lot of differences.

In the case of the OP we have an EPIC sub and a MFW-15 and the MFW-15 starts to roll off at 38 hz which seems really odd since the tuning point is around 19hz and goes against the logic of how I would understand a quality subwoofer design. I have understood the manufacturer makes a subwoofer that measures mostly flat in GP testing and it is the room that creates an uneven response.

The OP put the subs in the same place and ran an AVIA sweep while monitoring a SPL meter and the MFW-15 was down 10db by 25 hz. The only way I know this would be the case is if this sweep was done at very high SPL which would mean the EPIK subwoofer is more capable at lower frequencies, or the EPIK subwoofer has interal EQ to boost lower frequencies, or something is wrong with the MFW-15.

On the other hand, I really don't know much about subwoofers and I am only basing my thoughts on my own personal experience and observations.

A couple thoughts on measuring the two subs:

I apologize if you mentioned this, but try putting the SPL meter on a tripod. They start to have inconsistent readings when they are held in a hand or if you are standing right next to them.

Second, download REW if you haven't already. You can use the frequency test tones from REW and use your SPL meter as a mic. They have correction values that you can load for your model as the Rat Shack meters are calibrated to a much higher frequency and can give incorrect readings. Normally they recommend that you use an outboard sound card but you could skate it with an internal one in your laptop. The main benefit here is you can compare sweeps visually and compare them pretty quick Plus REW is free, you have an SPL meter, heck, seams like you are on your way,

Best of luck and please let us know what you think.

Cheers.

Do you need the $400 from selling one? If not, sell them both and take the $800 and pick up an even better sub.

If that's not an option try some blind tests and see which one you like the best.

I agree that that much difference starting at 38hz with both subs in same location and same material being played though both subs is a little odd. the MFW-15 will diffenently go lower than 25hz, something is not right.

I would suggest playing with the phase adjustment on the MFW-15 to see if this effects the lower frequency performance of the MFW and good luck with you choice. I would just keep both myself.

I agree that that much difference starting at 38hz with both subs in same location and same material being played though both subs is a little odd. the MFW-15 will diffenently go lower than 25hz, something is not right.

I would suggest playing with the phase adjustment on the MFW-15 to see if this effects the lower frequency performance of the MFW and good luck with you choice. I would just keep both myself.

I agree should go lower. I would keep both also if theres room. Unless you feel ones enough......never :)