Amazingly, within the last three weeks, the uniforimity issue on my Pearl (VW50) has gotten progressively worse- going from annoying but (barely) tolerable with B&W content to now being fully evident on just about all color material.
This is amazing because, while uniformity has been an annoyance since day one, the unit just went out of warranty within the last three weeks (the invoice was dated 11/7 06). This was actually the second unit I originally auditioned because uniformity on the first was unacceptable right off the bat.
In threads at the time I was told that due to the limitations of LCoS tech, what I was seeing was likely within spec- and that all brands and all LCoS based models will have variations in severity in this area (even the JVCs).
After realizing over the last two weeks that what I seeing is worsening, I decided to do some googling for " SXRD, Sony, green blob, haze" etc.
It seems that not only is this a well known issue with Sony SXRDs, but that Sony also recently settled a class action lawsuit over this in regards to two RPTV models- extending the warranty to get this fixed. 'This' apparently being due to broken Optical Blocks which need to be replaced (at considerable cost- about $1000 on the RPs).
Sony customer support wants me to fax them a copy of my invoice, but I don't relish sending this to Laredo after hearing the horror stories there. They also haven't confirmed that they will actually extend the warranty only that they will ltry to work with me' on this.
just curious if I'm the only one here whose 2 year old Pearl is showing it's true colors, or if there are others who are finding this a problem now and are SOL from the warranty?
If it comes to it, I'll investigate a class action in the new year so if anyone else has been burned, let's keep in touch.

I would hate to have it come to that as I've generally been happy with the pj in all other aspects, but this issue (along with a reviled BDP -300 player) could push me into the "never buy another Sony anything camp".

I'm not a big believer in litigation so I hesitate to contribute to this thread. But there has been recent credible reports of similar problems. Read through the Cine4home posts in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15041700#post15041700

I decided to do some googling for " SXRD, Sony, green blob, haze" etc.
It seems that not only is this a well known issue with Sony SXRDs, but that Sony also recently settled a class action lawsuit over this in regards to two RPTV models- extending the warranty to get this fixed. 'This' apparently being due to broken Optical Blocks which need to be replaced (at considerable cost- about $1000 on the RPs).


Yes, that is very true. Sony replaced the optical block on my 50 inch SXRD RPTV a few months back under warranty. They are also giving a credit as a result of a class action lawsuit for the sets not being able to handle 1080p as long as you can prove that you own a 1080p device. I qualified for a 60.00 credit as per the suit as I own a blu-ray player.

That sounds like a costly settlement for Sony. Further evidence perhaps that the term SXRD is literally a four letter word within the company . . .

Send in a copy of the receipt. They said they are going to work with you. See where that goes.

This has been a big deal in the RPTVs. I have a 1/2006 60" SXRD. I am lucky as mine has been just fine. Some have said the failures are related to heat. I live at around 5300', so I put mine in "high altitude" mode from the start. Also, my basement is cooler than the rest of the house and the TV has plenty of breathing room. Those factors plus moderate use may have saved me. Some have replaced the OB multiple times. The fan is very loud in high altitude mode, so I could see why some would avoid it. That level of fan noise would be totally unacceptable in a pj closer to the viewers.

I am leaning to the RS-20, so I will buy an extended warranty.

Similar issues are reported on the QUALIA 006 Owner's Thread over the last year or so: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=498008 (Note that this thread has over 15,000 posts). The Q006 optical block replacement is $5,000. Sony has recently extended warranty coverage on this part.

I wonder if the 4K SXRD movie theater projectors will also be affected.

That sounds like a costly settlement for Sony. Further evidence perhaps that the term SXRD is literally a four letter word within the company . . .

http://www.geocities.com/Liberalgunfarce/BS_Flag.gif

LOL !!!

Need to learn how to do that one :)

Unless I am missing something in that link, that optical block replacement discussion is limited to the RPTVs.

I think Paulidan's VW50 observations are important. Could you post a couple of screen shots of say a 30%/60%/90% full field gray pattern? Does the VW50 have service menu gamma shading where you can correct shading errors on 11 gray scale values? If yes, tweaking the shading is doable, although a little time consuming.

If you author me an email with your specifics, I can send it to my Sony contacts and have them contact you directly regarding any Laredo/California service. I would copy you on the email and provide their telephone numbers. I had a similar problem with my old HS51, which had organic LCD. I had the optical block replaced without incident outside my 1 year warranty. My HS51A after almost 3 years never showed signs of panel degradation. A friends Ruby, also 3 years old, still looks as good as new.

Panel uniformity for LCD/LCos/D-ILA have long been an issue. Since going to inorganic panels, I have always thought and still believe, any uniformity issues are like DLP dead mirrors, you either have them or you don't. Correcting for poor uniformity from the factory was/is a profit center for our friend William Phelps, and now one of his consulting chores with Meridian. However, with the Sony gamma shading service menu, any shading issues can be tweaked with a little time and patience.

Certainly as a lamp ages and any WB errors become more pronounced, perhaps the uniformity shading errors also become more apparent, but I don't believe it changes. Now I have not yet pushed a projector to the number of hours referenced by some of the Sony SXRD RPTV owners,, so maybe there is a life span issue when excessive heat is involved.

I have been a strong advocate in defense of the Sony SXRD technology, but my experience is limited to my own observations and comments from my Sony contacts. However I would welcome proof of a larger systemic issue with SXRD and would work to address the matter accordingly.

....Certainly as a lamp ages and any WB errors become more pronounced, perhaps the uniformity shading errors also become more apparent, but I don't believe it changes. Now I have not yet pushed a projector to the number of hours referenced by some of the Sony SXRD RPTV owners,, so maybe there is a life span issue when excessive heat is involved.

I have been a strong advocate in defense of the Sony SXRD technology, but my experience is limited to my own observations and comments from my Sony contacts. However I would welcome proof of a larger systemic issue with SXRD and would work to address the matter accordingly.

I can guarantee you that color problems can occur with age on SXRD units. I have seen problems develop over time with clients products in the area of uniformity and severe color shift near black that was not present earlier in the life of the product.

Most of my clients with Qualia RPTV sets have had at least one light engine failure and many of my clients with other SXRD RPTV's have had similar problems. I have seen some degradation of SXRD FP projector products, but not as severe as I have seen with the RPTV versions. I suspect these problems may be related to issues around heat dissipation resulting in polarizer failures, but I have no proof other than failure rates for clients in warmer climates seem to be higher or faster than in cooler ones.

Thanks Jeff.

Are the SXRD projector observations you noted also found on other derivative panels technologies, or exclusive to SXRD?

In the case of uniformity changes, could you determine if it was one of the RGB panels or the contrast plate?

Was the color shift near black most likely the lamp output curve changing with age? Perhaps the color change remained after a lamp replacement. I'm also wondering if the color shift remained stable, such that a follow up calibration corrected the drift.

As I cited on another thread, my Ruby, purchased used at 700 hours, is now three years old and the picture has only gotten better with age, better darks, better dark detail and smoother overall rendition. There does seem to be a 'feeding frenzy' mentality around here surrounding some perhaps bad samples that the whole series will be trashed if a few bad apples are found. This tends to make AVS more misleading than informative.

As I cited on another thread, my Ruby, purchased used at 700 hours, is now three years old and the picture has only gotten better with age, better darks, better dark detail and smoother overall rendition. There does seem to be a 'feeding frenzy' mentality around here surrounding some perhaps bad samples that the whole series will be trashed if a few bad apples are found. This tends to make AVS more misleading than informative.

+1

However, as long as there are some facts, objective observations and research into those observations to balance the uninformed fear, it's all good.

:D

Mark,
Thanks for the link to that thread. It made for very interesting reading. Remarkably the initial comments were made about the exact same time I was noticing mine were worsening. I was completely oblivious to that thread, mostly because I don't peruse this sub forum much anymore- and that's because, as I said, I was mostly quite satisfied with the pj up till this point. I even called Jason a few weeks back purchasing a new lamp (he suggested I wait). This (could/would) have been the first pj I've owned since I got into fp in 2001, where I was satisfied enough to replace the lamp and use it another 2K hrs.
Let me say that, in response to the main concern over in that other thread, I'm not having issues *at this time* with contrast degredation. It's entirely possible there has been some, along with a possible elevation in brightness in at least one corner, but the levels they are at now are still satisfactory for me.
The problem with the uniformity is such that if I sent it in right now, I'm sure I would still be told it was within spec. It is NOT (yet) visible under all color circumstances- but it is detectable in a majority of viewing circumstances because of its zonal placement. Neutral backgrounds, lighter colors on clothing, lighter skin tones in close-ups, pans across neutral colored backgrounds, etc will all be occassion to reveal that part of the image area is 'stained'.
I'm starting to tear my hair out now because not only has the warranty JUST passed, but I feel like I'm getting the first signal that the problem will deteriorate from here at a more advanced rate. maybe by next summer it will be completely unwatchable (which is not the case as of now).
My situation is further complicated due to my work schedule. Up till early January, this is all down-time for me. But when early Jan comes, I'll be on the road for two months. If this problem can be addressed, it would be ideal for me to have it done at the time. I'm also concerned if I let it slide now what will I find when I get back in March?

Thanks Jeff.

Are the SXRD projector observations you noted also found on other derivative panels technologies, or exclusive to SXRD?

In the case of uniformity changes, could you determine if it was one of the RGB panels or the contrast plate?

Was the color shift near black most likely the lamp output curve changing with age? Perhaps the color change remained after a lamp replacement. I'm also wondering if the color shift remained stable, such that a follow up calibration corrected the drift.

The near black color change was definitely not the lamp. I have seen cases where we changed the lamp to test this and it did not improve the situation. I am not sure where the failure occurred, but it was not the lamp. The color shifts only seem to get worse with time.

I have seen similar problems with LCD, but not as severe. DILA seems to be the most reliable of these types of products. This is one of the reasons I have purchased a JVC RS-20.

The near black color change was definitely not the lamp. I have seen cases where we changed the lamp to test this and it did not improve the situation. I am not sure where the failure occurred, but it was not the lamp. The color shifts only seem to get worse with time.

I have seen similar problems with LCD, but not as severe. DILA seems to be the most reliable of these types of products. This is one of the reasons I have purchased a JVC RS-20.

Can you comment regarding how many hours were on those problem projectors?

I'm wondering if owners who fail to keep their filters clean, might expose the optical block to excessive heat and begin a process of decline.

If I recall correctly, the Sony projectors have some level of heat detection and I would have expected the detection protocol to shut down the projector if damaging temperatures were present.

Good luck with your RS-20. I look forward reading your feedback on calibrating the projector.

Can you comment regarding how many hours were on those problem projectors?

I'm wondering if owners who fail to keep their filters clean, might expose the optical block to excessive heat and begin a process of decline.

If I recall correctly, the Sony projectors have some level of heat detection and I would have expected the detection protocol to shut down the projector if damaging temperatures were present.

Good luck with your RS-20. I look forward reading your feedback on calibrating the projector.


I do not keep track of hours on products, but I would suspect it is happening at over 5000 hours.

Cleanliness, room temperature and ventilation probably all contribute.

Bytehoven,
I appreciate the offer and will be in touch with you in the days/weeks ahead. I'm limited in internet access right now to a mobile device so it may take some time to get you good pics, etc. I would most definitely appreciate someone beyond basic India based customer service getting the info.

here info some basic about set-up and usage
-purchased 11/06 (from AVS, of course- even thoughI knew I'd get nailed with NYS tax)
- it is used, table mounted, within a basement. power is disconnected from outlet after every viewing session
-total hours so far are around 1600. It is usually turned on only once per day and run for at least 3.5-6 hrs.
-it has been run in low lamp mode at least 95% of it's lifespan.
-It had been run in low fan mode untill about 100 hrs ago. At that point I got an on screen warning that the pj was overheating and was going to automatically shut off. I immediately changed the fan speed to High Alt, and it never shut off, and the warning hasn't come back since.
-air filter was cleaned at 1500 (it was about 20 hrs post cleaning when I first noticed the uniformity now more visible on color content
-The uniformity has behaved inconsistently over it's lifespan and I've tried (in vain) to figure out what might be contributing to the problem. For the first 1000 hrs or so, the zone where the green haze was most noticeable (on B&W content) was in the upper right .At some point the haze started to blossom in the center left portion of the screen, and at this point it has receded in severity in the upper right and increased in severity in center left. I will say, when upper right was a problem, that was also detectable on color content. It was just that it's location only infected peripheral imagery making it much easier to ignore/tolerate.

Paulidan,

Has the color uniformity changed after getting the new lamp? Fwiw, as my RS1 started to age (> 1000 hrs), I started to notice color in the white field uniformity that wasn't there before. After replacing the lamp it has gone away.

Paulidan,

Has the color uniformity changed after getting the new lamp? Fwiw, as my RS1 started to age (> 1000 hrs), I started to notice color in the white field uniformity that wasn't there before. After replacing the lamp it has gone away.

Color uniformity problems are most visible when you are close to D65. A new lamp may have shifted you further from D65 masking the problem.

I have to say that I'm not liking some of what I'm reading here. Although I'm not looking for it, I've yet to see any issues thus far with my VW60. I've had it since late January and it probably only has about 500hrs registered on the lamp. The additional price for the Sony VW60 vs Panny AE2000 seemed worthwhile to me, as long as the additional cost equaled a better build. Among other things.

I'll definitely be keeping a closer eye on the PJ.

I had a 60" XBR2 and I had to get the optical block replaced under warranty. Uniformity still wasn't great but it was better than before. The first one did get worse with time. I ended up giving the tv to my mother (who loves it even if it does make people look wider , heh). I'll check it out the next time I visit her to see if it got worse again.

http://www.geocities.com/Liberalgunfarce/BS_Flag.gif

I like your
B.S. flag but I really question its use.

Sony has gotten out of the SXRD business except for front projection. Dealers in Germany have apparently collectively decided not to sell Sony projectors and have questions Sony's committment to front projection.

Sony sounds like a company that is really committed to SXRD.

You seems to imply that SXRD optical block failures (for which Sony has agreed to a large non-B.S. class action settlement) are related to user error and not to any defect in design. There may in fact be B.S. in the air but it is not coming from me. :D

Lawguy...

Your previous post was filled with mostly conjecture. That's why I raised the BS flag.

Your comment... Further evidence perhaps that the term SXRD is literally a four letter word within the company. What's the point? I think we know you're not keen on Sony or their SXRD technology. Continuing to heap on more comments like... Dealers in Germany have apparently collectively decided not to sell Sony projectors and have questions Sony's committment to front projection. Sony sounds like a company that is really committed to SXRD. only suggest you have an axe to grind. Do YOU really know the circumstances regarding Sony dealers in Germany?

Then you go on to say... You seems to imply that SXRD optical block failures (for which Sony has agreed to a large non-B.S. class action settlement) are related to user error and not to any defect in design. An obvious misstatement of what I have been saying. In my recent post to UMR, I clearly offered follow up questions of clarification for Jeff, that entertained the possibility of a product defect. I did not say USER error was an exclusive causality. Contributive? We all know poor owner operating procedures can lead to problems blamed on the manufacture. Any examination of operator error serves to help us better under stand the dynamics of this potential problem.

Your recent comments strike me as a kid who has found his Dad's gun and is waving it around as he runs about the house. :D

However a person looks at it, any struggles that Sony has with SXRD is not good for LCOS and not good for front projection in general. A lot of companies have tried and failed to do LCOS, Philips and Intel come to mind. Sony on the otherhand seemed to be the only company other than JVC that could successfully pull off a good LCOS product. They even one upped JVC with a lot of improvements that JVC has only recently incorporated. This includes the thinner LC layer which improves panel response and apparently the first use of wire grid technology. If Sony backs away from SXRD it can only be bad for us FPTV consumers, especially now that DLP products seem to be going through retrenchment too. Lovers of front projection need technologies that are successful and high volume so that it can keep at least some corporate focus away from the flat panel juggernaut.

Lawguy...

Your previous post was filled with mostly conjecture. That's why I raised the BS flag.

Your comment... Further evidence perhaps that the term SXRD is literally a four letter word within the company. What's the point? I think we know you're not keen on Sony or their SXRD technology. Continuing to heap on more comments like... Dealers in Germany have apparently collectively decided not to sell Sony projectors and have questions Sony's committment to front projection. Sony sounds like a company that is really committed to SXRD. only suggest you have an axe to grind. Do YOU really know the circumstances regarding Sony dealers in Germany?

Then you go on to say... You seems to imply that SXRD optical block failures (for which Sony has agreed to a large non-B.S. class action settlement) are related to user error and not to any defect in design. An obvious misstatement of what I have been saying. In my recent post to UMR, I clearly offered follow up questions of clarification for Jeff, that entertained the possibility of a product defect. I did not say USER error was an exclusive causality. Contributive? We all know poor owner operating procedures can lead to problems blamed on the manufacture. Any examination of operator error serves to help us better under stand the dynamics of this potential problem.

Your recent comments strike me as a kid who has found his Dad's gun and is waving it around as he runs about the house. :D

I have no problem with Sony or its SXRD technology. I have bought many Sony products in the past and will continue to buy them in the future.

I would like to see MORE of a committment from Sony toward front projection. I am very disturbed that someone as respected as Ekkehart from Cine4Home has made the reports that he has. Other people, not me, have reported that dealers in Germany have stopped carrying Sony products. As a fan of Sony, you don't find any of that disturbing?

I am just very concered that Sony is abandoning the technology and this market. That is all.

I am just very concered that Sony is abandoning the technology and this market. That is all.

I'm trying to figure out this statement. If they were abandoning it why would they release new projectors? Why would they be trying to improve upon the technology?

I'm not saying their might not be some flaws that still need to be worked out (of which I don't know of a single FP technology that doesn't) but that doesn't mean it isn't viable or can't be improved upon.

So far the discussion seems to be Sony vs. Ekkehart from Cine4Home. That's not enough for me to just throw Sony under the bus. Whose know maybe Ekkehart has an axe to grind with Sony. If there was a seriously real problem with FP SXRD technology I would expect to hear from more users and other industry experts.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/SXRD/index.shtml

Lawguy...

Follow the link above to read Sony comments on there plans to drop SXRD.

I know that Sony has been active in front projection in areas other than Home Theater. Having a diversified business model is one thing that I would hope make a business better positioned to survive a downturn. That is why the whole Germany thing is so surprising. I just hope that what Sony Germany is experiencing is not typical of Sony in general.

Mark,

The problem with the uniformity is such that if I sent it in right now, I'm sure I would still be told it was within spec. It is NOT (yet) visible under all color circumstances- but it is detectable in a majority of viewing circumstances because of its zonal placement. Neutral backgrounds, lighter colors on clothing, lighter skin tones in close-ups, pans across neutral colored backgrounds, etc will all be occassion to reveal that part of the image area is 'stained'.
I'm starting to tear my hair out now because not only has the warranty JUST passed, but I feel like I'm getting the first signal that the problem will deteriorate from here at a more advanced rate. maybe by next summer it will be completely unwatchable (which is not the case as of now).

I have quite a lot of experience with the Rear projection Sony SXRD optical block failures having gone through 2 60 inch sets, the last one replaced by Sony with a new 50 inch LCD XBR4.
I may be able to indicate the type of problem these sets had in case it ever applies to the Sony Pearl and other members of the FP SXRD family .. which I hope it does not.

Here is what the typical failure looked like to me and to many others on the Forums:

The Sony Rear Projector SXRD sets non-uniformity progresses in stages.
1st. It starts with a green "blob" or stain - often in the corners reaching out to other nearby areas. The effect at first is that of greenish non uniformity on part of --one side of the screen . It is important to note that this is seen at first only when the set was first turned on and within a few minutes (say 5) after warmup the problem would become very minor and hard to see.

2nd stage: Users would then see the greenish stain increase in intensity and stay visible even after 30 -60 minutes of what some hoped - and Sony told some of us -was just a "warm-up" problem.

3rd stage: the Stain would not fade away with warm up --would become very obvious and various contacts with Sony would begin.. leading to replacemnt of the optical block -if under warranty.

There was/is also a second version of the failure -most often I think with the 2nd round of sets where a lighgt/pale yellow vertical stain would develop and fall right at the edge and begin darkening and spreading away from the 3:4 image area . This could increase in intensity over perhaps 1-2 weeks enough to make the set totally unwatchable. This happened to my 2nd set which never went through the green blob problem. On the internet it appeared at the time I was the only person with this type of failure of the new sets , but I soon found it happened to 2 new sets at Circuit city. I had about 2000 hours on my set when this happened, and I think others on the net were not seeing the problem because they were not using the new sets as heavily as I was.

This problem in my opinion is a thermal failure within the optical block related to the heat difference between the area of the picture used for 4:3 and 16:9 images. The stress was at (and spreading a short distance out from) the vertical edge of the 4:3 image

But now I would like to get to the reason I am posting this on this forum.
The description of the non uniformity given on this thread with the SXRD Front projectors does not fit the failure mode I am familiar with for the SXRD rear projection sets. Until the symptoms begin to appear on multiple Sony SXRD Front projectors and follow a time-line I have outlined above I do not think the experiences of users with rear projection set failures reported above including mine should be causing owners of the Sony SXRD front projectors to start worrying. I do not belive the symptoms are the same. Shading issues (and the SXRD rear projectors did have these problems) are really a different problem from the failures in the SXRD Rear projection optical block such as I and others have described above.

KT

Shading issues (and the SXRD rear projectors did have these problems) are really a different problem from the failures in the SXRD Rear projection optical block such as I and others have described above.

KT

Thanks KT.

I would just reiterate, shading issues can be managed in service mode under the GAMMA menu, which offers 11 gray scale levels, each with 256 points of RGB adjustment across the screen.

It's a time consuming adjustment process but it can be managed. Adjustment can be done by eye, or better yet by positioning a probe close to the screen on the cross hair, as it is moved to the next adjustment point.

Thanks KT.

I would just reiterate, shading issues can be managed in service mode under the GAMMA menu, which offers 11 gray scale levels, each with 256 points of RGB adjustment across the screen.

It's a time consuming adjustment process but it can be managed. Adjustment can be done by eye, or better yet by positioning a probe close to the screen on the cross hair, as it is moved to the next adjustment point.

That's really interesting. I thought access to the shading menu for the Sony front projectors like the Pearl, involving the 256 points, was limited to factory permission to William Phelps. Could you expand on this a bit.

KT

Certainly...

When you enter in service mode on the sSny ENTER ENTER <- ENTER, under the device menu you will see GAMMA. This area allows you to navigate thru the 11 grayscale levels from 0% to 100% stimulus. At each level, you have control of a cursor cross hair that moves left to right, and then down to the next row left to right, until you make your way all the way back to the upper left hand corner of the screen. At each of the 256 points you can adjust the RGB.

I was able to successfully tame pretty obvious shading errors on my old Sony HS51A LCD projector.

The process just takes some time to do well, and despite it taking a little longer, using a probe on a tripod to shadow each cursor location for the adjustment really helps.

The process William developed was automated and went much faster, and I forget which Sony projectors he offered shading calibration services. I believe he always did more for the JVCs because he had already written the code.

Okay, I'm new here and I may be in the wrong place but I've something to say about the SXRD. First, I owned a 50" RCA DLP that went through 3 light engines before I got my money back which I used to purchase a Sony KDS60A2020. I've had no issues with the SXRD (19 months) until last night when I turned on the set and discovered I was attacked by yellow and green blobs. I know what OB problems look like but I tried menu adjustments, dvd, vcr and even a slap on its backside -- nothing worked. So, first thing this morning I called the dealer who said he would order the part and install it next week; said there would be no charge and that Sony had put a 5 year warranty on the OB.

Now, this afternoon I turned on the TV and . . . no yellow and green blobs. In fact, the adjustments I made last night produced the best ever picture.

What do you think is up?

are you running HDMI? sometimes a blotchy effect might be an HDMI issue that clears itself. check the rear projection television forums for lengthy explanations of the optical block issues.

Thanks for your suggestion. Yes, it's HDMI connected but they're all tight; I'll check the RPT forums. I know the look of light engine failures and what I saw last night was very similar to my rotten RCA DLP experience. Just made me sick!!!

The point of my post was to see if anyone has seen or heard of an off/on OB failure. My understanding is that if they're broken, that's it.

I'm pretty frustrated and done with Sony products myself. I had two VW50s with uniformity issue (though the VW60 was fine). Recently, my 60XBR2 has an optical block that Sony is going to have to replace. Now my 34" Sony tube is dead. Previously, the set had some issues that were never resolved by Sony. Funny thing is, none of these displays were ever correct enough (shading, uniformity) to watch B&W films on.