I'm fairly new to the HT setup game, and I have a question. I've got Klipsch Quintet III speakers (they are small speakers, I think they are rated at 120hz at the lower end on the spec sheet), an Onkyo 606 receiver, and the new SVS PC-12 NSD, which I just got yesterday. I ran the Audyssey setup, and it's got my surrounds at 150hz, and the LPF at 80hz. Speakers are all around +2db , but it set the sub at -15db, the lowest setting possible. Any reason for that? I changed the sub setting to -8db, and it sounds much better. I do not have an SPL meter yet, so just trying to blend it in by ear at this point.

My main question is this... If the speaker crossover settings are at 150hz, and the sub is at 80hz, am I missing the majority of the range in between? I changed the speakers to 120 hz, can I set the sub LPF to 100 hz? I assume this would narrow the gap and I could get more midbass response, I just don't know if there would be a negative affect on anything by doing this...? Thanks for any help, just trying to figure this stuff out.

Bypass the crossover on the sub. Switch it off. Let the receiver handle all of the bass management. If you use the setting mention, you will lose some of the range between 80hz and 150hz. Try the crossover at 120hz and then compare it to 150hz. Go with what sounds better. Try to place the sub between the front mains to avoid the bass localization that occurs with high crossover settings.

I ran the Audyssey setup, and it's got....... the LPF at 80hz.If you use the setting mention, you will lose some of the range between 80hz and 150hz.I'm pretty sure he's describing the LPF of LFE setting. If that setting is like most receivers, it only affects the LFE channel. I have no idea why it set it to 80Hz. In most cases this should be set to 120Hz. It has no effect upon rerouted bass so he is not losing the rerouted bass between 80Hz and 150Hz. Only the LFE channel above 80Hz. As far as I know, the only reason to use a lower LPF of LFE setting than the default 120Hz is to minimize subwoofer localization, but with the speakers' xover set at 150Hz, setting the LFE cut-off to 80Hz doesn't make much sense in that respect.


..........but it set the sub at -15db, the lowest setting possible. Any reason for that?That setting is a relative setting. If you lower the sub's own volume knob a bit, it will use a higher level setting than that.


My main question is this... If the speaker crossover settings are at 150hz, and the sub is at 80hz, am I missing the majority of the range in between?As I indicated above, if that LPF setting DOES set the LFE cut-off and the sub IS capable of output up to 150Hz, then, no, you are not missing anything from the bass below 150Hz that is rerouted from your SMALL channels to the sub.


I changed the speakers to 120 hz, can I set the sub LPF to 100 hz? I assume this would narrow the gap and I could get more midbass response, I just don't know if there would be a negative affect on anything by doing this...?See above. I'd set the LPF of LFE to 120Hz. That setting is independent of the speakers' crossover setting(s) and has no effect upon the rerouted bass; only the LFE channel. You can change the speakers to 120Hz, but Audyssey most likely set them to 150Hz for a reason. That being that they are not very capable below that.

In looking at your receiver's manual, RampageSTi, it says that Audyssey doesn't change or set the LPF of LFE setting (see pg. 73). Which means, unless you have changed it, that the receiver's default LPF of LFE setting is 80Hz. Why? I do not know. I'd change it to 120Hz as the LFE channel can go this high (maybe higher). If there are any ill-effects that you think you can attribute to setting it to 120Hz instead of 80Hz, try lowering it incrementally.

I would really like to know more about this LPF of LFE setting but, unfortunately, AVRs' manuals do not explain it in too much detail. And I have seen varying explanations. Your manual, for example, says it can be used to filter unnecessary or undesirable hum.

You guys are awesome, thanks. I gather from your explanation that the LPF of the LFE only affects the .1 channel, and should have no bearing on bass sent to the speakers. So they should, in theory, be independent of each other, just need to find the happy medium. Hope I read that right, I'm going to switch it to 120hz, and put the speakers back to 150, like the Audyssey originally set them to.

I gather from your explanation that the LPF of the LFE only affects the .1 channel, and should have no bearing on bass sent to the speakers.A better way to put it is that it has no bearing on the bass that is rerouted to the subwoofer from the speaker channels. The LPF of LFE setting only affects the LFE channel info and what part of it is allowed to go to the subwoofer.

So they should, in theory, be independent of each other, just need to find the happy medium.There is no "happy medium". The 'crossover' setting and the 'LPF or LFE' setting are completely independent of one another. They really have nothing to do with each other. One (the crossover) dictates the frequency below which the bass from any channels set to SMALL is sent to the subwoofer. The other (LPF of LFE) dictates a top-end cutoff for the LFE channel information. Rerouted bass is rerouted bass. LFE is LFE. The only thing they have in common is that they are both reproduced by the subwoofer.


Hope I read that right..........I don't know. Not if you think there is a "happy medium" between the 2 settings.


I'm going to switch it to 120hz, and put the speakers back to 150, like the Audyssey originally set them to.120Hz is probably fine for the LPF of LFE.

150Hz may be the correct crossover setting for those little satellites but what becomes important with such a high crossover setting is whether the sub has good output all the way up to 150Hz (and beyond). Can you bypass the sub's own crossover or not? If not, how high can you set it?

A better way to put it is that it has no bearing on the bass that is rerouted to the subwoofer from the speaker channels. The LPF of LFE setting only affects the LFE channel info and what part of it is allowed to go to the subwoofer.

There is no "happy medium". The 'crossover' setting and the 'LPF or LFE' setting are completely independent of one another. They really have nothing to do with each other. One (the crossover) dictates the frequency below which the bass from any channels set to SMALL is sent to the subwoofer. The other (LPF of LFE) dictates a top-end cutoff for the LFE channel information. Rerouted bass is rerouted bass. LFE is LFE. The only thing they have in common is that they are both reproduced by the subwoofer.


I don't know. Not if you think there is a "happy medium" between the 2 settings.


120Hz is probably fine for the LPF of LFE.

150Hz may be the correct crossover setting for those little satellites but what becomes important with such a high crossover setting is whether the sub has good output all the way up to 150Hz (and beyond). Can you bypass the sub's own crossover or not? If not, how high can you set it?

While we're on crossovers, I have JBL ND310 mains (dual 10", 37-20k response supposedly), I run my fronts "small" on a marantz SR4100 with the crossover set to 80hz, is there ANY reason to run a higher crossover in my setup since the mains can play lower than satellites?

................I run my fronts "small" on a marantz SR4100 with the crossover set to 80hz, is there ANY reason to run a higher crossover in my setup since the mains can play lower than satellites?The only reason would be if the Marantz only offers a single global crossover setting and there are other speakers that are NOT capable of output down to 80Hz. If this were the case, you would have to decide between raising the crossover or allowing a hole between the sub and the smaller speakers' low-end frequency response.

The only reason would be if the Marantz only offers a single global crossover setting and there are other speakers that are NOT capable of output down to 80Hz. If this were the case, you would have to decide between raising the crossover or allowing a hole between the sub and the smaller speakers' low-end frequency response.

my center is good for 80+ so i guess 80 it is, still bothers me i can't set my mains to "large", bass output to "both" and get adequite bass, if i don't set my mains to small i lose a lot of lowend :confused:

Try a 100Hz setting and see if you can tolerate a little more volume like turning the dial up 3dB or 4dB louder if you like. Then try listening to them without the mains. Since they are set small most material is being sent to the subwoofers, and in movies the bass is at the front speakers. The surrounds are the least important as far as how much power is needed to drive them, so checking to see what they are capable of with some sweeps such as in DVE would get you up and going in no time.

...............still bothers me i can't set my mains to "large", bass output to "both" and get adequite bass, if i don't set my mains to small i lose a lot of lowend :confused:Hmmmmm. I assume you are still using the same 80Hz crossover setting when you switch to the "Both" setting. Since there is redundant bass info below 80Hz being reproduced by the fronts and sub with the "Both" setting, it can create cancellation. Otherwise, there is really no reason that using the "Both" setting wouldn't give you more bass. The exact same info goes to the sub as would go there were the fronts set to SMALL. The only difference is that the fronts are now allowed to run full-range.

Try a 100Hz setting and see if you can tolerate a little more volume like turning the dial up 3dB or 4dB louder if you like. Then try listening to them without the mains. Since they are set small most material is being sent to the subwoofers, and in movies the bass is at the front speakers. The surrounds are the least important as far as how much power is needed to drive them, so checking to see what they are capable of with some sweeps such as in DVE would get you up and going in no time.Ummm..............

Who is this directed at? Just wonderin'. :confused:

Hmmmmm. I assume you are still using the same 80Hz crossover setting when you switch to the "Both" setting. Since there is redundant bass info below 80Hz being reproduced by the fronts and sub with the "Both" setting, it can create cancellation. Otherwise, there is really no reason that using the "Both" setting wouldn't give you more bass. The exact same info goes to the sub as would go there were the fronts set to SMALL. The only difference is that the fronts are now allowed to run full-range.

there's a significant bass difference from large to small and set to both in regard to what's coming out of the sub, i'll try different crossovers though

there's a significant bass difference from large to small and set to both in regard to what's coming out of the sub, i'll try different crossovers thoughThere is a significant difference in what is "coming out of the sub" between the LARGE and SMALL settings. But there should be no difference in what is "coming out of the sub" between the SMALL and BOTH (which, of course, means the fronts are set to LARGE) settings.

What is "coming out of the sub" with each front channel setting:

LARGE = LFE channel + bass below the crossover setting from any other channels that are set to SMALL

SMALL = LFE channel + bass from the front channels that is below the crossover setting + bass below the crossover setting from any other channels that are set to SMALL

BOTH = LFE channel + bass from the front channels that is below the crossover setting + bass below the crossover setting from any other channels that are set to SMALL

Note that with the SMALL and BOTH settings, the content of the subwoofer's output is identical. What may be different is the actual amount of front channel bass that is being rerouted to the sub in each instance. As I pointed out, with the BOTH setting, since there is redundant reproduction of front channel bass below the crossover setting from both the front speakers and the sub, depending upon the room and setup, cancellation can occur which will result in the perception that there is actually less bass.

Granted, experimentation is important, and results can vary from room to room and setup to setup, but with your front speakers there is no (apparent) reason to set the crossover any higher than 80Hz. In fact, disregarding the size of any other speakers in your setup, one could easily make an argument that a 60Hz crossover setting may work best with those speakers.

But what is your goal, here? It is unclear why or what you asked in your first post in the thread ".......is there ANY reason to run a higher crossover in my setup since the mains can play lower than satellites?" Are you unhappy with something about the sound of your all SMALL setup with 80Hz crossover that you think a higher crossover setting may help? If you would rather run your fronts as LARGE (with the BOTH setting), why would you want to consider an even higher crossover setting than the 80Hz you are already using? And WHY do you want to run the LARGE front and BOTH setting, anyway?

Maybe he thinks there is a hole in his satellites when the crossover is set to 80Hz? Hole from 80 to 150Hz?

Maybe he thinks there is a hole in his satellites when the crossover is set to 80Hz? Hole from 80 to 150Hz?You're confusing two different posters; RampageSTi and boostfrenzy. Which is one reason why I suggested that boostfrenzy start his own thread.

boostfrenzy only said his "mains can play lower than satellites". Not that he had satellites.

in my situation, if i switch between mains set as "LARGE" and bass set to "BOTH", i get much less bass output overall than just selecting "SMALL", my sub isn't even doing anything set to LARGE & BOTH which is concerning, but comes to life with the mains @ SMALL, both with crossovers sset to 80hz

150Hz may be the correct crossover setting for those little satellites but what becomes important with such a high crossover setting is whether the sub has good output all the way up to 150Hz (and beyond). Can you bypass the sub's own crossover or not? If not, how high can you set it?

Yes, my sub has a switch to bypass the internal crossover. I have it bypassed and am using the receiver's crossovers. I can't find the exact specs, but I seem to remember a range of 19-150hz, or 19-120, something in that range. So I followed your advice, and set it to 120, since that's the highest my receiver will allow. I haven't been able to pop a good movie in to test, but the football games seemed to have a more "full" sound than I remember them usually having. I'll let you know what I find once I put something worthwhile in to listen to.

Yes, my sub has a switch to bypass the internal crossover. I have it bypassed and am using the receiver's crossovers. I can't find the exact specs, but I seem to remember a range of 19-150hz, or 19-120, something in that range.Even when bypassed, the sub may not be able to perform all the way up to 150Hz. If it is only rated up to 120Hz then you may indeed have a hole in the FR with your speaker's crossover set to 150Hz.


So I followed your advice, and set it to 120, since that's the highest my receiver will allow.It is still not clear to me that you understand how completely different and unrelated the crossover and LPF of LFE settings are. I suggested you set the LPF or LFE to 120Hz because the LFE channel can contain content all the way up to 120Hz. The crossover setting used for your speakers is usually dictated by your speakers' low-end capabilities. When you use such a high crossover, though, you run the risk of overshooting your subwoofer's high-end capability. Which LPF of LFE setting to use has nothing to do with this issue.

Your posts indicate to me that you are somehow still linking the function of the 2 settings. You set the LPF of LFE to 120Hz for one reason; that the LFE channel can contain content that high. You set the receiver's crossover(s) to a particular setting (whatever that is) for other reasons entirely. Please forgive me if I am reading too much into your responses and underestimating your knowledge, but do you understand the difference between the LFE and the rerouted bass?

Yes, I do understand, after you explained it earlier in the discussion. I know that the LFE is just for the LFE track, and the crossover setting is what reroutes the bass from the satellites to the subwoofer. I now understand why the receiver goes to 120hz on the LPF of LFE, since the LFE only contains frequency range to that level...