I am going to be ordering a new projector (my first) this Christmas. I want to spend less than $3k. I have read comparisons between the Sony HW10 and the Panny AE3000, but how does the VW60 fit into that mix? The MSRP for it is considerably higher than the other two, but I have seen it online for less than $3k. I'm not so much interested in which of these is the better bargain, but the best projector outright.

I will be setting this up in what is essentially a large bedroom that has been converted into a media room. I will be limited to a 92" screen. The projector will be 11-12' away from the screen.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I am amazed at the number of posts like this one...The only way to buy a projector is to view the choices with your own eyes and choose. If you have enough on your credit card, just order the Panny and the Sony (like I did) and then send the one back that doesn't have the features you want or that impresses you the least. Just don't go over 4 hours on the lamp (or 1 hour for some companies). There won't be that much difference between the VW60 and the HW10, so if you were going to go with the Sony, I would get the one that had the best bargain.

I beg to differ, I think this is exactly what this forum is for. To ask people for their opinion on a certain projectors or comparing one projector to another. People don't always have showrooms close to them. I digress...I am interested on these comparison also.

Why would you be surprised that someone would be looking for a recommendation from the members of the forum? As I mentioned, I have no experience with HD projectors, so I thought it would be a good idea to get some knowledgeable input before making a decision. I thought that was the purpose of forums such as this.

FWIW, I do plan to visit a home theater store before purchasing. However, I don't know if I will be able to see all three of those projectors at the same time.

Your idea of ordering two projectors and returning one is interesting, although it does strike me as taking advantage of the vendor. Did you have to pay a restocking fee for the one that you returned?

Why would you be surprised that someone would be looking for a recommendation from the members of the forum? As I mentioned, I have no experience with HD projectors, so I thought it would be a good idea to get some knowledgeable input before making a decision. I thought that was the purpose of forums such as this.

FWIW, I do plan to visit a home theater store before purchasing. However, I don't know if I will be able to see all three of those projectors at the same time.

Your idea of ordering two projectors and returning one is interesting, although it does strike me as taking advantage of the vendor. Did you have to pay a restocking fee for the one that you returned?

It's not taking advantage of the vendor if you let the vendor know of your intentions upfront and you understand the vendor's return policy.

The HW10 seems to be an equal or better performer to the VW60. It has newer SXRD panels and there's already good information on this forum on settings to improve it's performance. Look at Bytehoven's posts in the calibration thread.

Are you a rookie to front projectors or just HD projectors? Be aware of which controls are powered and which are manual. On the HW10 zoom and focus are manually done while I believe those are powered on the VW60. The Panasonic's controls are powered. Powered vs manual functionality has no effect on image quality but do consider how it would affect your daily use of the projector.

And yes, this forum is supposed to be for asking questions.

Ok Question on the manual vs powered zoom. Once you have you projector mounted and in a perment location, do you have to zoom or focus again after the intial setup?

Why would you be surprised that someone would be looking for a recommendation from the members of the forum? As I mentioned, I have no experience with HD projectors, so I thought it would be a good idea to get some knowledgeable input before making a decision. I thought that was the purpose of forums such as this.

FWIW, I do plan to visit a home theater store before purchasing. However, I don't know if I will be able to see all three of those projectors at the same time.

Your idea of ordering two projectors and returning one is interesting, although it does strike me as taking advantage of the vendor. Did you have to pay a restocking fee for the one that you returned?

Of course not. The vendors will not charge you a restocking fee if you buy one of their projectors. The whole point is to make sure you get what you want. Members on here will normally try to push you in the direction of their personal choice. This forum is NOT designed to be a recommendation for projectors...You "can" make a recommendation, (and I have myself)...But think about it, the minute I make a recommendation on one projector, someone else will make a recommendation for something else...So in the end you will be right back where you started...YOU WILL NOT KNOW FOR SURE UNTIL YOU SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES. I would NEVER come on to a web site like this and ask what kind of projector should I buy. WHY? So I can get even more confused?...To me a web site like this is where you come to find out about the top three projectors and then you do your own home work from there...;) The bottom line is, no one here can decide for you...and why would you want them to? A projector is a big investment and you need to be sure. Order the top 2 or three choices and narrow it down from there. Call PP or another reputable projector company and talk with them about ordering 2 projectors for comparing, they will be more than happy to assist...;)

...
The HW10 seems to be an equal or better performer to the VW60. It has newer SXRD panels and there's already good information on this forum on settings to improve it's performance. ..

.


And where does it say that HW10 has "newer SXRD panels" than VW60?

I am going to be ordering a new projector (my first) this Christmas. I want to spend less than $3k. I have read comparisons between the Sony HW10 and the Panny AE3000, but how does the VW60 fit into that mix? The MSRP for it is considerably higher than the other two, but I have seen it online for less than $3k. I'm not so much interested in which of these is the better bargain, but the best projector outright.

I will be setting this up in what is essentially a large bedroom that has been converted into a media room. I will be limited to a 92" screen. The projector will be 11-12' away from the screen.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

given that sony is enforcing the SURE policy on the vw60 and vw70,
it's really doubtful the vw60 falls within your budget constraints.

in one of threads a few weeks ago, a vendor was highlighted for trying to
sell a vw60 for a very low price, however, the lamp was an extra cost!!

that said, the vw60 should really be in that ballpark since it should
be heading for EOL now that the vw70 is available.

as far as seeing them all w/ your own eyes, unless the projectors are set
up properly (light controlled, yada, yada, yada) and you bring your own
source material, it's very unlikely moving from one location to another,
that you'll be able to make a good comparison.

(unless you're bytehoven!!:) who managed to get both in the same place)

be aware that the local BB/magnolia's in my area are still displaying the
original vw50 pearls.

as far as the hw10 goes, 11' throw distance works spectacularly for a 92" screen (although i'm starting to think of going larger!!)

I am using vw60 at my Toronto home. Just bought the AE3000 yesterday to replace the Mits HC5000 which was developing a problem in my second home. From the limited time I had been spent with AE3000. I can say the sharpness and 480i deinterlacing/upscaling was about 2 steps down from HC5000. Black level and color was definitely a step up, very close to VW60. The 2 set ups use very different screens VW60 was pair with Studiotek and AE3000 with HiPower. On the AE3000 white appeared more white with excellent white/shadow detail. When using VGA input for xbox360, there is a lighter band of pixels on the top of the screen (no issue with component). This could either be the VGA cable or the signal processing. Out of the box color AE3000 appeared to be very good, on the other hand VW60 looked horrible and required some tweaking to get the performance. Haven't had the chance to tweak the AE3000 so better performance may be possible.

I to have been looking at going with a projector for eons but it always seems like something gets in the way of finalizing the project. Although it looks like I may be getting one in the near future and have been pouring over these forums to get what information I can for atleast a year. I to have narrowed it down to the same projectors as cigar dan. I am leaning towards the Pana because of the auto features. I know I will be switching between ws formats often. I know all recomendations should be taken with a grain of salt but there still is good information contained within it usally coming from personal experience. As for demoing these units as some have said not all people are close to stores carrying them. On the other hand such as in my case I have numerous stores near me that carry some of these projectors but it is a joke viewing them because they are never setup correctly to make a good comparison and usually the staff has less of a clue about them then any of us do. Most of them have never heard of this forum. It is for these reasons that many of us come to this forum to hear from either professionals in the business or owners of the products and then we can make our educated decisions. I do like the idea of auditioning two or more projectors at home. That could be nirvana. Sorry to ramble but I thought I would put my own two cents in on this issue

given that sony is enforcing the SURE policy on the vw60 and vw70,
it's really doubtful the vw60 falls within your budget constraints.

in one of threads a few weeks ago, a vendor was highlighted for trying to
sell a vw60 for a very low price, however, the lamp was an extra cost!!

Thanks for the warning. I'll need to call the two vendors which had the low prices to see if that is the case. If those are bona fide prices, the VW60 is the direction that I am leaning at the moment (although I am far from pulling the trigger on it).

as far as seeing them all w/ your own eyes, unless the projectors are set up properly (light controlled, yada, yada, yada) and you bring your own source material, it's very unlikely moving from one location to another, that you'll be able to make a good comparison.

Agreed. However, I will certainly make every effort to see at least one of these firsthand before making my decision.

as far as the hw10 goes, 11' throw distance works spectacularly for a 92" screen (although i'm starting to think of going larger!!)

Thanks! That is very good to know.

Cigar Dan,

If you're not buying until Christmas you may want to add the Epson 6500UB and the Sanyo Z3000 to your list, both I think will be out by then. The Epson 6500UB is claiming 75000:1 CR and the Z3000 65000:1 with Dynamic Iris.

The Sanyo Z3000 is specifically designed for short throws like yours and with 19db fan would be prettty much silent. Price on it for pre-order from V/A or PP is under $2400.

The BB/Magnolia in San Diego has the Sony HW10 hanging in their main theater room. I have not seen it in action yet but the physical appearance of it is gorgeous. That's the one I would pick if you're stuck on one of the three you list.

Of course not. The vendors will not charge you a restocking fee if you buy one of their projectors. The whole point is to make sure you get what you want. Members on here will normally try to push you in the direction of their personal choice. This forum is NOT designed to be a recommendation for projectors...You "can" make a recommendation, (and I have myself)...But think about it, the minute I make a recommendation on one projector, someone else will make a recommendation for something else...So in the end you will be right back where you started...YOU WILL NOT KNOW FOR SURE UNTIL YOU SEE WITH YOUR OWN EYES. I would NEVER come on to a web site like this and ask what kind of projector should I buy. WHY? So I can get even more confused?...To me a web site like this is where you come to find out about the top three projectors and then you do your own home work from there...;) The bottom line is, no one here can decide for you...and why would you want them to? A projector is a big investment and you need to be sure. Order the top 2 or three choices and narrow it down from there. Call PP or another reputable projector company and talk with them about ordering 2 projectors for comparing, they will be more than happy to assist...;)

Perhaps the title of the thread was poorly chosen. I am in no way asking anyone to decide for me. I am, however, asking those that have already researched these models (especially those that have firsthand experience with one or more of these models) share their knowledge with me.

Even though we obviously disagree about the benefits of seeking advice here, I will likely heed your suggestion to see if a vendor will be willing to allow me to try out two different models knowing that I will be returning one. However, that makes me wonder that if vendors are so willing to do that, how would I know if the PJ that I order will be BNIB.

Perhaps the title of the thread was poorly chosen. I am in no way asking anyone to decide for me. I am, however, asking those that have already researched these models (especially those that have firsthand experience with one or more of these models) share their knowledge with me.

Even though we obviously disagree about the benefits of seeking advice here, I will likely heed your suggestion to see if a vendor will be willing to allow me to try out two different models knowing that I will be returning one. However, that makes me wonder that if vendors are so willing to do that, how would I know if the PJ that I order will be BNIB.

You can go into a projectors hidden menu and find out if it has zero hours on it...Once a projector has hours, you can't remove the hours...They stay on record inside the projector...Most of these companies will sell the one you send back as open box, or demo model...Yeah, the title of the thread should be, "Need help deciding on a projector", not, "Which Projector should I get". It's like someone asking, which kind of car should I buy?...I mean, only you really know...:)

Cigar Dan,

If you're not buying until Christmas you may want to add the Epson 6500UB and the Sanyo Z3000 to your list, both I think will be out by then. The Epson 6500UB is claiming 75000:1 CR and the Z3000 65000:1 with Dynamic Iris.

The Sanyo Z3000 is specifically designed for short throws like yours and with 19db fan would be prettty much silent. Price on it for pre-order from V/A or PP is under $2400.

The BB/Magnolia in San Diego has the Sony HW10 hanging in their main theater room. I have not seen it in action yet but the physical appearance of it is gorgeous. That's the one I would pick if you're stuck on one of the three you list.

stopdog,

The Sanyo 3000 will have an even shorter throw than the Panasonic 3000?

I am going to be ordering a new projector (my first) this Christmas. I want to spend less than $3k. I have read comparisons between the Sony HW10 and the Panny AE3000, but how does the VW60 fit into that mix?

The only real advantage to buying the VW60 at this time, is it's ability to use the Sony Image Director 3 software for gamma curve adjustments. However, based on 3 calibration sessions with a Chroma 5 and i1Pro probes, the missing gamma curve editing is not proving to be a problem. I have gotten excellent white balance tracking with the USER RGB bias/gain controls. Also, I have formal asked Sony to review the possibility of a software/firmware update for the HW10 to enable use of the ID 3 software.

A Sony contact has said the HW10 is using a newer variation SXRD chip set than the VW60. That's how the HW10 ANSI, native & ON/OFF contrast are equal to or better then the VW60. I have not found online links supporting this info, but it seems logical given the ANSI contrast improvements of the HW10 over the VW60.

If you want to get a projector for the least amount of $$$, and you don't mind a little convergence error, chromatic aberration on the edges, gamma shading uniformity errors, less than perfect focus across the screen, and a few other subtle problems, the AE3000 could be for you. Because this is your 1st projector, you might not even recognize these problems, and would make owning the AE3000 easier.

As some others have pointed out, I had both the AE3000 and HW10 in my light controlled HT on a 100" diagonal screen. I have the tools to properly calibrate a projector. However, the problems I saw on my AE3000 could not be fixed. If you can find a dealer who will cherry pick a AE3000 and make sure you get a good one, PQ performance would be closer to the HW10, otherwise, just read the AE3000 owners thread regarding some of the problems reported by owners.

The new Epson PRO models might be worth checking out. Someone has said Espon will cherry pick optical blocks for the Pro 7100 and 7500 UB, which might assure they won't have shading, convergence or other variables associated with LCD. I would expect the new non-Pro Epson models to exhibit similar convergence and uniformity issues reported on the AE3000, however maybe Epson will take greater care with it's factory calibration and QC than Panasonic .

Of the 3 projectors on your current list, unless there are circumstance to consider other than PQ, I confidently recommend the HW10. Out of the box it's a winner.

Good luck with your projector search.

RJ...

BTW... I test drove a HW10 from Best Buy and a AE3000 from Projector People. I was honest and told both of them I was going to try them and decide which was best and they agreed. When I decided the HW10 was the better projector, I asked Best Buy to meet the AVS price, but they would not. I ended up returning both projectors and bought my current HW10 from Jason here at AVS.

Thank you for the very detailed reply. There is a quite a bit of information there, and you have given me a lot to consider. Thanks!

stopdog,

The Sanyo 3000 will have an even shorter throw than the Panasonic 3000?

Not sure, the final specs looks like are not in. This description from PP says short throw and 120HZ with 5:5 pull down.

http://www.projectorpeople.com/projectors/projdtls.asp?itemid=24185&itmname=Sanyo%20PLV-Z3000&tab=summary

I think the second poster might be appalled at what questions some long-standing members of the forum are asking of the people who have gotten RS10s/HD350s earlier than others. My vw60 that I recently sold was the seventh projector I have owned, and I still want to know about things like lens quality, noise, convergence, etc.

given that sony is enforcing the SURE policy on the vw60 and vw70,
it's really doubtful the vw60 falls within your budget constraints.

in one of threads a few weeks ago, a vendor was highlighted for trying to
sell a vw60 for a very low price, however, the lamp was an extra cost!

After doing some research on one of the vendors in question, I found that they are notorious for bait-and-switch tactics. I will avoid them like the plague. Thanks for the heads-up.

I am going to be ordering a new projector (my first) this Christmas. I want to spend less than $3k. I have read comparisons between the Sony HW10 and the Panny AE3000, but how does the VW60 fit into that mix? The MSRP for it is considerably higher than the other two, but I have seen it online for less than $3k. I'm not so much interested in which of these is the better bargain, but the best projector outright.

I will be setting this up in what is essentially a large bedroom that has been converted into a media room. I will be limited to a 92" screen. The projector will be 11-12' away from the screen.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Check your AVS mail ASAP; I PM'd you with an answer to your question.

FYI if you found a brand new VW60 for less than $3k...run away from it. That I can guarnatee is NOT legit.

To answer your question...the Panny is the best deal and least expensive, but there is a good amount of information that the Sony technology overall is better (pending again, you don't mind the price jump).

This seems interesting. People tend to say that Sony HW10 is better than AE3000 but costs more. In Europe the cost is other way around, so does this make the HW10 a no-brainer? Even if it does not have the 120hz and other features...

Would be so good to know the input-lag of these two.

Yeah if could get an HW10 for less than the Panny, I would jump on it (pending those are on your short list).

Yeah if could get an HW10 for less than the Panny, I would jump on it (pending those are on your short list).

Thank you for your input Jason! I have also the new Epson TW5000 on my short list and perhaps waiting the LED-DLP projectors (The current DLP's are not relaxing to watch to my eyes)... The waiting is just killing me. Should buy my first projector soon. Have been waiting nearly two years now :rolleyes:

Sharpness and good motion handling is what I am looking for as well. The ultimate black is not so important. Trying to fit the projector in my leaving room with smallish 80-90 inch screen from 12 feet. Don't know does this make any sense compared to 46" LCD?

When the Epson comes to stores I will go and demo these projectors so it is easier to make decisions. However, 1800€, 2300USD, for the Sony is just so tempting and cheap that I could buy a whole playstation 3, lots of games and blu-ray tv-series with the money saved compared to the upcoming Epson.

Jason, Bytehoven and co.: How do you see the HW10 for gaming?

(Sorry for thread hijack)
Thanks!
Fkuti

I have an XBOX 360 and so far I have not noticed any problems. The HW10 does not offer a real powerful deinterlacer, so I expect it to be inherently faster.

I should also mention I use the DVDO Edge, which has a gaming mode.

However, so far I have not noticed any delay issues running with the DVDO in non-gaming mode, which is a pretty powerful deinterlacing protocol.

I should not I'm not playing the kinds of games that might reveal delays. I playing Force Unleashed, Halo3, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, Lego Batman/Star Wars, etc...

I have an XBOX 360 and so far I have not noticed any problems. The HW10 does not offer a real powerful deinterlacer, so I expect it to be inherently faster.

I should also mention I use the DVDO Edge, which has a gaming mode.

However, so far I have not noticed any delay issues running with the DVDO in non-gaming mode, which is a pretty powerful deinterlacing protocol.

I should not I'm not playing the kinds of games that might reveal delays. I playing Force Unleashed, Halo3, Call of Duty, Mass Effect, Lego Batman/Star Wars, etc...

Mits HC5000 deinterlacing/upscaling was far superior to the one in AE3000. Upscaling from 480i tv signal the image was quite acceptable for 120" screen with HC5000. AE3000 on the other hand had a lot of deinterlacing/upscaling artifact, ghosting and color fringing.
When connecting the 360 to AE3000 the image was superb and had no noticeable lag in either the normal or fast image processing mode.
Have not tested on VW60 for deinterlacing yet, but when gaming the images are more 3D like on the VW60 despite the lower ANSI contrast.

This seems interesting. People tend to say that Sony HW10 is better than AE3000 but costs more. In Europe the cost is other way around, so does this make the HW10 a no-brainer? Even if it does not have the 120hz and other features...

Would be so good to know the input-lag of these two.
Same in Australia RRP Panasonic $6499 , RRP Sony $3699 AUD of course. I find this a bit strange.

Thank you for your input Jason! I have also the new Epson TW5000 on my short list and perhaps waiting the LED-DLP projectors (The current DLP's are not relaxing to watch to my eyes)... The waiting is just killing me. Should buy my first projector soon. Have been waiting nearly two years now :rolleyes:

Sharpness and good motion handling is what I am looking for as well. The ultimate black is not so important. Trying to fit the projector in my leaving room with smallish 80-90 inch screen from 12 feet. Don't know does this make any sense compared to 46" LCD?

When the Epson comes to stores I will go and demo these projectors so it is easier to make decisions. However, 1800€, 2300USD, for the Sony is just so tempting and cheap that I could buy a whole playstation 3, lots of games and blu-ray tv-series with the money saved compared to the upcoming Epson.

Jason, Bytehoven and co.: How do you see the HW10 for gaming?

(Sorry for thread hijack)
Thanks!
Fkuti

I have not tried gaming personally on it, but on fast motion video I have seen no problems.

LED DLP's are coming, but they will be slim pickings for variety at first. I also suspect pricing will be higher than others you are considering.

FYI if you found a brand new VW60 for less than $3k...run away from it. That I can guarnatee is NOT legit.

To answer your question...the Panny is the best deal and least expensive, but there is a good amount of information that the Sony technology overall is better (pending again, you don't mind the price jump).

Don't want to be a PITA or break any rules here but I purchased my VW-60 brand new in a sealed box for less than 3K delivered from an authorized dealer back in early May... and the indisputable proof they were authorized came about this past summer when our house got struck by lightening that killed the HDMI1 input in the pj (along with a host of other electronic component woes in both theaters... amplifiers, HTPC, etc). I called Sony and had to provide them the dealer's name, date of purchase, and serial number and after a couple minutes on hold, I was told Sony would cover the repair costs and return shipping, all under warranty. However, you are right that almost any offer of a sub-3k sale price for a VW-60 is a scam (most often they tie in other purchases at outrageous prices... like $800 lamps and pj screens, etc to make up the difference or they'll weasel out of the deal) however my experience is proof there are rare instances of a legit 3k VW-60 that have been purchased from an authorized dealer.

Cigar Dan...keep in mind that AVSforums sell the Sony, they do not sell the Panny...Also the Panny has lens memory, 120HZ, and much more calibration settings...I had both and chose the Panny..;).

Actually, dogone, go to www.panasonic.com and look it up...A/V Science IS an authorized dealer. I choose not to sell the Panny for reasons I will not get into.

Pertaining to the Sony VW60 for less than $3k...anything is possible. But that is WAY below dealer cost so there must be something else going on there (clearance, etc...).

In fact...here you go:

http://b2b.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/Locator/Query.jsp?cmpycd=3&cboModelCategories=7,54&txtZipCode=14580&txtZipCodeExtension=&modl_catg_id=54

Type in zip code 14564...there I am.

In fact...here you go:

http://b2b.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/Locator/Query.jsp?cmpycd=3&cboModelCategories=7,54&txtZipCode=14580&txtZipCodeExtension=&modl_catg_id=54

Type in zip code 14564...there I am.

Jason

A while back you stated that you were getting a Panny ae3000 to calibrate and test from a fellow AVS member. Do that ever happen?

I did get it, but I had some issues with it (mainly its ability to properly calibrate). Anyways, I didn't have time to do another one (I have about 4 reviews to do and less than 0 time to do them this time of year).

I did get it, but I had some issues with it (mainly its ability to properly calibrate). Anyways, I didn't have time to do another one (I have about 4 reviews to do and less than 0 time to do them this time of year).

That doesn't sound good..... The Panny won't calibrate?:eek:

It's okay, I know exactly why you don't want to sell them...:)

:confused:

That doesn't sound good..... The Panny won't calibrate?:eek:

No it will, this particular projector was having issue. I just didn't get another in yet. I have seen this with other models from different companies...sometimes the grayscale out of the box cannot really be dialed in 100%. In the case of the one I got, I was finding that I could dial in 10, 20, and 90 and 100, but 30-80 dipped a lot no matter what. Or I could get 30-80, and the others peaked. I am sure Panny could adjust something internally so that it could be corrected, but not something a non-tech could do.

No it will, this particular projector was having issue. I just didn't get another in yet. I have seen this with other models from different companies...sometimes the grayscale out of the box cannot really be dialed in 100%. In the case of the one I got, I was finding that I could dial in 10, 20, and 90 and 100, but 30-80 dipped a lot no matter what. Or I could get 30-80, and the others peaked. I am sure Panny could adjust something internally so that it could be corrected, but not something a non-tech could do.

What would cause the greyscale to not properly track through the entire range? Is it a software or a hardware problem?

It could be a gamma issue , possibly related color gamut correction need by the factory, correction that alters the gamma response in a way that affects white balance unevenly. Part of the curse of 2D CMS.

If a projector has color gamut issues, which I think Jason also said he observed, they attempt to get the tracking as close as possible. Why, because we would all notice improper colors. However, the correction could potentially be at the expense of a typical color & grayscale response through out the luminance curve.

Here is a fair review of the new Panny from projector reviews.

Panasonic PT-AE3000 Projector Overview
Wow! The PT-AE3000 has been extremely impressive from the moment I first plugged it in. With the previous Panasonic projector, the PT-AE2000U, its price was a very important factor, which allowed us to give it a Best in Class award for the "entry-level" 1080p projectors. The older model though, came up a little short compared to the best of the mid priced 1080p order, notably the Epson Home Cinema 1080 UB.

This time around, the PT-AE3000 looks extremely formidable, and despite the relatively low price ($2499 selling price), it looks to not only be competitive with other top projectors including the new Mitsubishi HC7000, Sanyo PLV-Z3000 and the Epson Home Cinema 6500 UB (all to be reviewed in the next 3-5 weeks), but has some interesting features not found on some or all of those mentioned. The PT-AE3000U is the most feature laden of the bunch!



Perhaps more importantly, the Panasonic has improved significantly in some areas, most notably in terms of black level performance. Panasonic's PT-AE3000 home theater projector is a much better projector than the PT-AE2000U it replaces! It will be interesting to see if the comparable entries from Sanyo, Epson, and Mitsubishi, will be able to match or beat the Panasonic's performance. That should be especially interesting, as the Panasonic will likely be the least expensive of the four major "top of the line" 3LCD home theatre projectors.

^ Back to Top


PT-AE3000 Projector Highlights
Average brightness in both best and brightest modes (but, a slight improvement over the PT-AE2000U)
Extremely good out of the box color performance (one of the best)
Frame rate interpolation for improved handling of fast moving objects and scenes, to reduce motion blur
"Pseudo" anamorphic lens features, including savable memory settings on zoom and aspect ratio - an extremely interesting feature with many benefits, which allows an owner to choose a 2.35:1 aspect ratio screen, without spending the big bucks for an anamorphic lens
Power zoom and focus
Excellent black levels
Very good shadow detail
Good sharpness (seems a touch sharper than the older model), but still "average"
Excellent price/performance value

It could be a gamma issue , possibly related color gamut correction need by the factory, correction that alters the gamma response in a way that affects white balance unevenly. Part of the curse of 2D CMS.

If a projector has color gamut issues, which I think Jason also said he observed, they attempt to get the tracking as close as possible. Why, because we would all notice improper colors. However, the correction could potentially be at the expense of a typical color & grayscale response through out the luminance curve.

Could be gamma problem...not sure. Basically though it is a rarity...and not something limited to Panasonic (I have seen this over the years from about every manufacturer at one point or another). I would suspect my next Panny would not have this issue.

Quite honestly it is not something an untrained eye would even notice (as I recall the 100IRE at x=.313 y=.329 brought the 60 for instance to around x=.330 y=.329 or so (again, from memory). Vice versa, if I fixed the mid IRE's. the high end peaked. Basically it cannot be fixed from onsite adjustments.

Jason...

I mentioned the gamma because I was chatting with Derek at CalMAN today regarding how to help 2D CMS work, if at all. And when he was talking about the affect of not being able to properly isolate and adjust the Y of the xyY color gamut, grayscale color shift can suffer if the colors are force to track closer to acceptable color values. I drew the conclusion, if there is a color tracking error in the panels, and some factory level 2D CMS is applied to correct, the result could be problems with the WB curve. I may be drawing a wrong conclusion as it's such a complex issue.

However, Derek did suggest even a 2D CMS could possibly be tweaked with some limited success. In theory, start with the wide color gamut and draw the saturations back in. He suggested from a wide color gamut, use the RCP hue control to make sure the primaries and secondaries are in the proper axis/orientation with their CIE chart pegs. Then use master color to reduce saturation while keeping an eye on the luminance values, basically make note of what's happening. The RCP color controls could also be used to balance how blue in the wide color mode remains closer to the REC709 blue peg than do red/green to their pegs. From the wide gamut mode, maybe bringing down the master color while boosting RCP blue, might achieve a balance of better color mapping without too much compromise to lightness (Y).

I can just feel some of our CMS calibration experts grinding their teeth. :D

The HW10 with it's RCP 2D color gamut challenges will be a good candidate. I look forward to experimenting.

I am using vw60 at my Toronto home. Just bought the AE3000 yesterday. Out of the box color on the AE3000 appeared to be very good, on the other hand VW60 looked horrible and required some tweaking to get the performance. Haven't had the chance to tweak the AE3000 so better performance may be possible.

I agree...The Panny out of the box was excellent, and I too had the Sony which was a pain in the butt to tweek and it never did wind up with as good of color accuracy as the Panny.

You/re kidding right? The HW10 is about as easy to calibrate as it gets.

Here are some pics of the before after WB as well as the excellent color gamut tracking for Normal and Wide modes. The color tracking is the Get Gray SD-DVD from the Panny 55K on the HD REC709 gamut.

http://blanca.com/HW10/11-27-08%20gamut%20and%20WB%20images.jpg

Didn't you read the post?...We are talking about the VW60...:rolleyes:

1080p Projector Shootout:
Panasonic PT-AE3000 vs. Sony VPL-HW10
Bill Livolsi, November 12, 2008
ProjectorCentral.com

Since we posted the review of the Sony HW10, readers have been asking how it stacks up against the Panasonic AE3000. They are both excellent home theater projectors. Both offer rich, vibrant pictures high in color saturation. However, there are some differences between them that will be important to some buyers and not to others. There are subtle differences in picture quality characteristics, and some not so subtle differences in features. Let's put them in perspective.

Lumen output. When they are both calibrated to deliver their most accurate video images, the Sony HW10 is somewhat brighter than the AE3000. On our test units, the HW10 measured 697 lumens when optimized for video while the AE3000 measured 566. So the HW10 has the edge in this regard.

However, the AE3000's maximum lumen output is quite a bit higher than that of the HW10. While video optimized mode on the HW10 tops out at 697 lumens, the projector cannot significantly increase brightness from that point. Meanwhile, the AE3000 has Normal mode, which on our test unit measured 792 lumens. Normal mode still has a very good color balance, so you don't sacrifice much in the way of color dynamics by using this brighter mode.

The AE3000 also has a Dynamic mode, which measured 1273 lumens. With nearly double the maximum light output of the HW10, the AE3000 can be used for video gaming with the lights on, or perhaps for watching HD sports broadcasts. There are occasions when one might prefer to have some light in the room while using the projector - sometimes I like to have dinner while watching a movie. With some ambient light in the room I am less likely to drop my mashed potatoes in my lap. Thanks to the extra brightness, the AE3000 is better suited for this type of use than the HW10.

Contrast. In terms of contrast, the AE3000 and HW10 are pretty much evenly matched, with the AE3000 having a slight advantage. Our AE3000 gave an ANSI contrast reading 446:1, while the HW10 registered 416:1. With respect to Full On/Off contrast, the AE3000 is rated at 60,000:1 contrast compared to the HW10's 30,000:1. Despite the huge numbers, this is actually a rather small difference in visible contrast on the screen, since a subtle change in black level can create a large swing in on/off contrast numbers.

Nevertheless, while the HW10 has very deep black levels, the AE3000's are a bit deeper still. The AE3000's slightly higher ANSI contrast and incremental edge in black level combine to make it appear to be a little bit higher in contrast than the HW10.

Color. Out of the box, our AE3000 was close to the 6500K color standard, though colors did appear oversaturated. The HW10 was slightly more difficult to calibrate, as the Medium color temperature which we used as a starting point required some tweaking to bring it closer to the 6500K standard. After calibration, either projector will give you well-balanced and well-saturated color, though getting there can be more of a chore on the HW10.

Sharpness. Neither the Sony HW10 or the Panasonic AE3000 are quite as sharp as Mitsubishi's new Diamond Series projectors, the HC6500 and HC7000, which stand out as the sharpest of the 1080p projectors we've seen this fall. However, there is nothing soft about either the HW10 or the AE3000. When viewed alone, they look razor sharp, and it is only in a side by side viewing that the Mitsubishi units show an incremental advantage in sharpness. Between the AE3000 and the HW10, the actual sharpness of image is about equal. But due to the AE3000's small edge in contrast, the AE3000 can appear to be the sharper of the two projectors.

Digital noise. Both the AE3000 and HW10 are relatively low in image noise when compared to other competing 1080p models. Both projectors have noise reduction options, but they were quite pleasant to watch even with the noise reduction filters turned off. We don't see an advantage of one over the other when it comes to noise artifacts.

Placement flexibility. The AE3000's 2.0:1 powered zoom and extensive manual lens shift (three picture heights and two picture widths) are among the best in its class, and allow it to display a 100" diagonal image from 10 to 20 feet. The HW10 has a 1.6:1 manual zoom, allowing it to throw the same 100" diagonal image from 10 to 16 feet, and manual lens shift of 2.4 picture heights and 1.38 picture widths, which falls short of the AE3000's range.

Of course, the longer zoom of the AE3000 has a downside. The AE3000 loses 41% of its total light output at the telephoto end of the zoom. So if you are in video optimized mode, its 566 video optimized lumens drop to 334 lumens. Meanwhile, the HW10, at its maximum telephoto zoom setting, loses only 22% of its total light output. That means its 697 video optimized lumens drop to 547 when using the long end of the zoom lens. Thus, while the AE3000 gives you more zoom range at the telephoto end, it comes with a penalty in light loss that you might not want to pay.

Lens Memory. The AE3000 has a Lens Memory feature, designed to imitate the performance of an anamorphic lens through manipulation of the projector's powered zoom capability. While this concept has been around for years, the AE3000 is the first projector to automate the process and add one-button simplicity. The HW10 is capable of accomplishing this same function, but you have to do it all manually every time you switch between 2.35 and 16:9 material. If you have no interest in 2.35:1 super-widescreen cinema or already own an anamorphic lens, this is a moot point. However, if you want to go with the 2.35 screen format and don't want to spring for an anamorphic lens, the AE3000 gives you some very important ease of use that the HW10 does not.

Frame interpolation. One of the hot-button features this season is frame interpolation. That is the ability of a projector to create interim frames in a video signal to reduce or eliminate the appearance of motion judder (for a discussion of judder and how frame interpolation reduces it, see Evan Powell's article on the subject). Simply put, the AE3000 has an option to activate its "Frame Creation" systems, while the HW10 has no such feature. While not everyone appreciates frame interpolation - indeed, some people think it compromises the "cinema experience" - we feel that it is among the most important innovations in home theater projectors since 1080p. If you are among those who don't care for it, it is a non-issue in deciding between these two projectors.

dogone - Your compulsion to proclaim the Panasonic better than all competitors is becoming tedious. By all accounts, it is a great projector. However, I would tone down the rhetoric. It's ok to love your projector, but this is bordering on neurotic.

I agree...The Panny out of the box was excellent, and I too had the Sony which was a pain in the butt to tweek and it never did wind up with as good of color accuracy as the Panny.So you had the Sony VW60, you had the Sony HW10 but the Panny is better. :D

Didn't you read the post?...We are talking about the VW60...:rolleyes:

Opps... Sorry. I didn't realize you had the VW60 too.

I have asked you in private so let me ask you again in public. Any chance of you showing proof you actually owned the HW10 and now the VW60? And out of fairness, I'd be happy to show pics for both of my HW10s and AE3000 receipts. :D

Ya see it's a little strange how there is no mention of your having the HW10 and VW60, until you needed to make a point about the AE3000 being better. Ordinarily, someone would have had atleast ONE other post about the projector. Kinda like your posts about the Sanyo PLV-Z700. How come there are no other dogone posts for the HW10/VW60?

Sorry, it's just a little expectation we have around AVS that people actually HAVE or HAD a projector, if they are going to claim having made a comparison, and then use the comparison to promote one projector over another. Making a comparison and promoting any conclusion between projectors is absolutely fair. However, claiming to have made a comparison without ever having actually had the projector, well it's not a good thing.

So, how about it. Let's see some proof. :D

Opps... Sorry. I didn't realize you had the VW60 too.

I have asked you in private so let me ask you again in public. Any chance of you showing proof you actually owned the HW10 and now the VW60? And out of fairness, I'd be happy to show pics for both of my HW10s and AE3000 receipts. :D

Ya see it's a little strange how there is no mention of your having the HW10 and VW60, until you needed to make a point about the AE3000 being better. Ordinarily, someone would have had atleast ONE other post about the projector. Kinda like your posts about the Sanyo PLV-Z700. How come there are no other dogone posts for the HW10/VW60?

Sorry, it's just a little expectation we have around AVS that people actually HAVE or HAD a projector, if they are going to claim having made a comparison, and then use the comparison to promote one projector over another. Making a comparison and promoting any conclusion between projectors is absolutely fair. However, claiming to have made a comparison without ever having actually had the projector, well it's not a good thing.

So, how about it. Let's see some proof. :D

Grow up...:rolleyes:

So you had the Sony VW60, you had the Sony HW10 but the Panny is better. :D

Yes...IMO I think it is better and has more options to boot...;)

Don't forget the 1080UB he had as well...

Don't forget the 1080UB he had as well...

Yes, spent some time with the rather loud 1080UB as well...;)

I found this pic of dogone's HT. You can see him wheeling in the AE3000 the day it was delivered. I apologize I suspected dog'd veracity regarding the HW10/VW60, as it's clear he has many other projectors in his inventory.

Aside from being a little cluttered, the dog's HT has pretty good light control.

Nice! :D

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/arkwarehouse.jpg

i found this pic of dogone's ht. You can see him wheeling in the ae3000 the day it was delivered. I apologize i suspected dog'd veracity regarding the hw10/vw60, as it's clear he has many other projectors in his inventory.

Aside from being a little cluttered, the dog's ht has pretty good light control.

Nice!


priceless!!!

I found this pic of dogone's HT. You can see him wheeling in the AE3000 the day it was delivered. I apologize I suspected dog'd veracity regarding the HW10/VW60, as it's clear he has many other projectors in his inventory.

Aside from being a little cluttered, the dog's HT has pretty good light control.

Nice! :D

http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/arkwarehouse.jpg

What are you? like 12?...I said grow up, but I guess you're incapable...thanks for posting prove of your idioticy. See what I mean Jason?

Closed.