Panasonic Better Buy for the Money? [Text View]

gregf70

11-25-08, 07:03 PM

davewolfs,

Pioneer Kuro's are considered, for the most part, the plasma benchmark. That line of displays are supposedly worth every penny. I have been researching for the past year for a display and this year, actually last week, I finally purchased my first ever flat screen plasma, it's a 50' Panny 85U.

As I have been told a few times and so have most folks, it depends on your viewing conditions of what is right for you. Plus you really need to go to a brick and mortar store and look at the sets and play with the settings and such.

These ultimately fall to your taste and budget. Would I love a 50" Kuro, heck yeah!! But that is not my budget. So I got the next best thing, in my opinion, the Panny 85U.

But you have to research it, learn about the models available. After this past year I have gone into some stores and I swear I know more about these than the store does.

Good luck

Seriously, for the money are the Panasonics a better buy? Were talking around a $1500 difference on a TH-50PZ800U vs a Pioneer 111. Am I thinking crazy for even considering comparing these two sets?

Thoughts?

pjb23

11-25-08, 07:03 PM

maxdog03

11-25-08, 07:44 PM

Seriously, for the money are the Panasonics a better buy? Were talking around a $1500 difference on a TH-50PZ800U vs a Pioneer 111. Am I thinking crazy for even considering comparing these two sets?

Thoughts?

All comes down to a personal choice and as to what the value is to YOU. Some people will be satisfied with a Honda while others want to step up to an Acura. Nothing wrong with either choice and they'll both accomplish the same thing and are very nice cars. Unfortunately it usually costs significantly more to jump up in performance even if it isn't by a whole lot. You can also save a significant amount of money and compromise by getting a 5020 which is still more than the Panasonic and a slight upgrade in PQ but the gap is significantly less. It's your call as to what the value is to you.

creemail

11-25-08, 07:59 PM

Nice job max!

Chris

omeletpants

11-25-08, 09:09 PM

For years, Panny owners have been using Consumer Reports as their bible and proof. Well, the new CR ratings are out and the Panny has slipped. There are new leaders now

Brand Model Score
Samsung PN50A550 81
Pioneer Elite Pro111FD 80
Samsung PN50A650 80
Panasonic TH50PZ800U 75
LG 50PG60 75
Samsung PN50A450 75

whityfrd

11-25-08, 09:10 PM

thing is, people get these new plasmas and consider them the benchmark, until the next installment arrives and then thats the benchmark. if you can afford a pio, go for it. just make sure you wont get into the habit of consistently upgrading because you didnt make the right choice the first time. if you had the money for a porsche, would you go out and buy a civic instead? that is the question.

hd_newbie

11-25-08, 09:54 PM

Seriously, for the money are the Panasonics a better buy? Were talking around a $1500 difference on a TH-50PZ800U vs a Pioneer 111. Am I thinking crazy for even considering comparing these two sets?

Thoughts?

To me what makes sense economically is to get the second or even the third best and keep upgrading it frequently rather paying an arm and a leg kind of premium over what is considered best. Elite 111 is best this year, but next year PDP Panasonics will be as good or even better and cheaper due to 5 lumen tech. So what is the point? The way technology is what is best now will look crappy in 2 years, so always stay behind and upgrade periodically in stead. That is my $0.02

derek533

11-25-08, 10:21 PM

Great posts omeletpants:rolleyes:. Honestly, what is your agenda here?

OP, don't listen to omeletpants. He is extremely biased against Panasonics despite all the experts agreeing that they are second only to the Pioneers. And no, Consumer Reports (I'm suppose to believe that the Samsung 550 is a better tv than the Pro-111FD, yeah right) are not experts and I take their opinions with a grain of salt. If Panasonic plasmas are so bad, then why do they have a failure rate of less than 2% while your beloved Samsungs have a much higher percentage? Why do Samsungs seem to still have problems with IR whereas on the Panny's, it's a non-issue? I can keep going if you'd like omeletpants. The bottom line, is Samsung still has some catching up to do with Panasonic and Pioneer.

Cnet's Top HDTV's (Another "expert's" opinion)

Best Overall Picture Quality: Pioneer Pro-111FD
Best Overall Picture for the Money: Panasonic THPZ800U
Best Flat Panel LCD: Sony KDL-55XBR8
Best Big Screen: Samsung HL61A750
Best Flat Panel Bang for your Buck: Panasonic TH42PX80U

The bottom line is trust your eyes. If you like the picture of the Panasonic, go for it and put the savings towards some really nice audio gear. If you just absolutely have to have the best, then go for the Pioneer. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Samsungs either, but their black levels still don't match those of the Panasonics much less the Pioneers.

omeletpants

11-25-08, 11:12 PM

maxdog03

11-25-08, 11:30 PM

Fanaticalism

11-26-08, 12:02 AM

I would rather save the extra money and buy a good plasma. :D

This question is asked over and over again on these forums. You will hear many people say to spend the extra money and get the Pioneer and just as many people tell you to save your money and go for the Panny. I personally felt that the law of diminishing returns kicked in at the price point of the Panny and the extra cash wasn't worth it to me.

Did I buy the absolute best TV in the world? No.
Am I extremely happy with my purchase? Yes.
Do I also own a new PS3 and money left over. Yes.

For the die hard Pioneer fans, there is only one answer. For the rest of us that want a great TV at a lower price, the Panasonic can't be beat. Only you can decide.

I just wanted to mention, that I see these types of stereotypes mentioned quite often on these forums. If some went in, and actually did a search on some of the Pioneer owners, they will see a trend. That trend will reveal that a lot of us (well, atleast those who have been on these threads for a long time) have owned whatever was best at the time. Whether it be a Sony Trinitron, or a Sony based RPTV (or again, whatever manufacturer was offering the absolute best at the time).

It is always much easier to swallow for those who either can not justify spending the difference on a piece of equipment, by just dubbing those who chose to do so as "Fanatics" of a specific brand, or technology.

Now, of course there are, and always will be those who blindly defend solely for self reassurance, but it is unfair to proclaim them all as so.

derek533

11-26-08, 12:17 AM

I would rather spend the extra money and buy a good plasma.

For years, Panny owners have been using Consumer Reports as their bible and proof. Well, the new CR ratings are out and the Panny has slipped. There are new leaders now

Brand Model Score
Samsung PN50A550 81
Pioneer Elite Pro111FD 80
Samsung PN50A650 80
Panasonic TH50PZ800U 75
LG 50PG60 75
Samsung PN50A450 75

What's you agenda? Seems like you are the only one allowed an opinion and of course, your opinion is to prop up Panasonic and bash Samsung :eek: Now that Consumer Reports rates Samsung and Pioneer over Panasonic you don't want to hear it. How predictable. BTW, it's against forum rules to attack other posters. I posted my opinion and you are free to post yours. But stop with the personal attacks.

It's not an attack if it's factual information based on your previous post history. Of course your allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else. But the problem here is that the OP didn't ask about Samsungs. He asked about Panasonic PZ800U vs. a Pro-111FD. We get it that you don't like Panasonic and that is your right, but what you are doing when the OP is asking about Panasonic or Pioneer and you start bashing Panasonic, is thread crapping plain and simple (which is also against the forum rules;)). The OP didn't ask about Samsungs and yet here you go again bashing the Panny's. It's such a common occurrence anymore its predictable. Your post history tells the truth omeletpants even if you feel as though it doesn't. Do you honestly not realize how many threads you have posted in and used that opportunity to bash Pannys? I think you need to read your post history. It might just be an eye opener for you.

I've got no problem with Samsungs whatsoever and will most likely be getting a PNA450 for my next plasma. My whole point is that for every expert that likes Samsung, you'll find and equal number prefer Panasonic.

We're good omelet, just stop with the constant Panny bashing. That's all. :)

omeletpants

11-26-08, 12:22 AM

It's not an attack if it's factual information based on your previous post history. Of course your allowed to have an opinion just like everyone else. But the problem here is that the OP didn't ask about Samsungs. He asked about Panasonic PZ800U vs.a Kuro. We get it that you don't like Panasonic and that is your right, but what you are doing when the OP is asking about Panasonic or Pioneer and you start bashing Panasonic, is thread crapping plain and simple (which is also against the forum rules;)). The OP didn't ask about Samsungs and yet here you go again bashing the Panny's. It's such a common occurrence anymore its predictable. Your post history tells the truth omeletpants even if you feel as though it doesn't. Do you honestly not realize how many threads you have posted in and used that opportunity to bash Pannys? I think you need to read your post history. It might just be an eye opener for you.

I've got no problem with Samsungs whatsoever and will most likely be getting a PNA450 for my next plasma. My whole point is that for every expert that likes Samsung, you'll find and equal number prefer Panasonic. My own eyes tell me the Samsung has better color pop and is aesthetically, just a better looking set while the Panasonic has better black levels, but a duller white and more boring aesthetics yet is less prone to I/R than the Sammy. This is when comparing the PX80U and the PNA450, not the higher end sets mind you.

We're good omelet, just stop with the constant Panny bashing. That's all. :)

I believe you have a reading comprehension issue. I posted the results of the current CR ratings and never said anything about Samsung in my original post. It was all conjecture on your part. As you can see Pioneer is rated above Panasonic. Stop with the personal attacks.

Fanaticalism

11-26-08, 12:28 AM

To me what makes sense economically is to get the second or even the third best and keep upgrading it frequently rather paying an arm and a leg kind of premium over what is considered best. Elite 111 is best this year, but next year PDP Panasonics will be as good or even better and cheaper due to 5 lumen tech. So what is the point? The way technology is what is best now will look crappy in 2 years, so always stay behind and upgrade periodically in stead. That is my $0.02

Experience has always told me to never count your chickens before they hatch.

According to the information that is available to us atm, does NeoPDP have the potential to be great? Absolutely! But it is always best to reserve judgement until factual data can be accumulated, and disected.

To me, in my enviornment, I am not sure what next year would bring, that I would consider anything an upgrade, and I will explain why. In my enviornment, the blacks blend right into the bezel. In my enviornment, my display is very bright. If I were to take a piece of solid white paper, and hold it up to my panel during a bright white scene, the whites match that piece of paper. Same goes if I hold a piece of white clothing up to it. Colors, are extremely accurate. So accurate, that any improvement, will only be something that can be measured. It isn't something that will be easily seen to the naked eye. And yes, there is in fact data to support this. Again, can it be more accurate? Yes, obviously, but is it something I will be able to see? No.

For me, a decrease in energy consumption is not a deciding factor. Profile, i.e. depth, and weight, do not matter to me, as I do not plan on packing my panel with me on the weekends. I also have a full motion wall mount, so it isn't like the panel will look like a painting on the wall anyway. Actually, I have frames that are thicker than the TV that I have now.

If there were anything that I would look for, it would be even better scaling, and overall processing for the crappy cable that gets passed off as HD , which is attainable now, via an outboard processor. That, or purchase something along the lines of a Runco, or Bang and Olufsen. ;) I would however, be sacrificing PQ, for better processing with these brands, as I have seen them both. The processing was nothing short of amazing.

761-honda

11-26-08, 01:17 AM

I think even my great grandmother living in rural China knows by now that omeletpants and discopaul swear by Samsung and will pop in anytime anywhere to let us know.

discopaul

11-26-08, 01:30 AM

I think even my great grandmother living in rural China knows by now that omeletpants and discopaul swear by Samsung and will pop in anytime anywhere to let us know.

And you best to not forget that! :D

Cleveland Plasma

11-26-08, 01:33 AM

derek533

11-26-08, 09:11 AM

I guess C R does not like the touch of color :D

Who does other than our wives that pass by and say something like "oohhh, I like that one" that is until they see the price difference.

Cleveland Plasma

11-26-08, 09:35 AM

We bought into the 58A650's and the price from the 550 and 650 was only $75.

brettvdi

11-26-08, 09:42 AM

One thing is for sure Samsung makes a nice product, they spend a tone of money on R & D as they have proucts no one else has. Samsung is on the move.

Panasonic makes a hell of a unit, suprised the 550 has a better review than the 650. I guess C R does not like the touch of color :D

Samsung just lost a lawsuit to pioneer for patent infringement on plasma technology and seems they're being sued by LG, Kodak, Spansion and few other I think. I would hope they put out a nice product :D

creemail

11-26-08, 09:58 AM

Who does other than our wives that pass by and say something like "oohhh, I like that one" that is until they see the price difference.

That's right. However, whats ironic is that my wife knows the difference between Tiffany & Co., Coach, etc....but when it comes to electronics, TVs, audio, it all looks and sounds the same...:D

Chris

hd_newbie

11-26-08, 10:52 AM

Experience has always told me to never count your chickens before they hatch.

According to the information that is available to us atm, does NeoPDP have the potential to be great? Absolutely! But it is always best to reserve judgement until factual data can be accumulated, and disected.

To me, in my enviornment, I am not sure what next year would bring, that I would consider anything an upgrade, and I will explain why. In my enviornment, the blacks blend right into the bezel. In my enviornment, my display is very bright. If I were to take a piece of solid white paper, and hold it up to my panel during a bright white scene, the whites match that piece of paper. Same goes if I hold a piece of white clothing up to it. Colors, are extremely accurate. So accurate, that any improvement, will only be something that can be measured. It isn't something that will be easily seen to the naked eye. And yes, there is in fact data to support this. Again, can it be more accurate? Yes, obviously, but is it something I will be able to see? No.

For me, a decrease in energy consumption is not a deciding factor. Profile, i.e. depth, and weight, do not matter to me, as I do not plan on packing my panel with me on the weekends. I also have a full motion wall mount, so it isn't like the panel will look like a painting on the wall anyway. Actually, I have frames that are thicker than the TV that I have now.

If there were anything that I would look for, it would be even better scaling, and overall processing for the crappy cable that gets passed off as HD , which is attainable now, via an outboard processor. That, or purchase something along the lines of a Runco, or Bang and Olufsen. ;) I would however, be sacrificing PQ, for better processing with these brands, as I have seen them both. The processing was nothing short of amazing.

Just to clarify. I am not saying Neo PDPs or any other display will be better next year. As you also correctly identified, we can't argue that with confidence since those displays are not available yet. However, based on past trend we can still easily say that if you buy the absolutely best display today and pay a price premium for it, you will enjoy the feeling of having the best for not even a year since there will surely be better things by that time. Therefore, I was questioning whether the premium was worth it or not, that's all.

PrimeTime

11-26-08, 04:34 PM

If there is any doubt about a choice like this, just go to a store that has them both and check them out. And don't let the fringies here tell you that you can't believe what you see in a crummy store. You can.

If you're interested in some everyday users' experiences over and above the somewhat fanboy types that frequent this watering hole, check out the buyer's review sections on Amazon and Newegg.

omeletpants

11-26-08, 04:56 PM

If there is any doubt about a choice like this, just go to a store that has them both and check them out. And don't let the fringies here tell you that you can't believe what you see in a crummy store. You can.

All the plasmas in the store have to deal with the same signal. If one model handles the signal better than another that should be a clue

BrownTown

11-26-08, 05:20 PM

All you have to do is wait till next year when Samsung sells plasmas with kuro black levels. It will only cost them @ 59 million.

tpham

11-26-08, 06:52 PM

We always have hardcore end user who chases for the best, nothing but the be$t. At the end of the day, get the best that YOU can afford.

Seriously, for the money are the Panasonics a better buy? Were talking around a $1500 difference on a TH-50PZ800U vs a Pioneer 111. Am I thinking crazy for even considering comparing these two sets?

Thoughts?

Saturn94

11-26-08, 07:24 PM

Seriously, for the money are the Panasonics a better buy? Were talking around a $1500 difference on a TH-50PZ800U vs a Pioneer 111. Am I thinking crazy for even considering comparing these two sets?

Thoughts?

I struggled with this when I decided to upgrade my RPTV (bought in 2000). Normally I'm one who places emphasis on "value" for the money.

This time, I had the money to purchase either the Panasonic or Pioneer Elite (I've been saving for this a LONG time;)). My perception was the Panasonic was a better "value" for the money, but the Elite performed better. I kept thinking I want the Elite but how could I justify the price difference. Would I be just as happy with the Panasonic knowing I got a better value?

It finally came down to this; once the set is in my home and the money's gone, do I want to watch it and think "what a great picture for the money", or do I want to think "Wow, what a great picture"?

I bought the Pioneer Elite and do not regret it one bit!:D

ROMAN O

11-26-08, 07:36 PM

Pansonic's are great value but I think the Pioneer Elite is the best money can buy. What a person should do is go look and see if the price difference is worth it to them!

corpfan1

11-27-08, 12:51 AM

The bold in the quote says it all...

For years, Panny owners have been using Consumer Reports as their bible and proof. Well, the new CR ratings are out and the Panny has slipped. There are new leaders now

Brand Model Score
Samsung PN50A550 81 LOL AT CONSUMER REPORTS
Pioneer Elite Pro111FD 80
Samsung PN50A650 80
Panasonic TH50PZ800U 75
LG 50PG60 75
Samsung PN50A450 75

omeletpants

11-27-08, 12:53 AM

The bold in the quote says it all...

Two months ago you didn't even own a plasma. Now that you bought a Kuro you are suddenly an expert.

discopaul

11-27-08, 01:05 AM

Fanaticalism

11-27-08, 02:22 AM

Two months ago you didn't even own a plasma. Now that you bought a Kuro you are suddenly an expert.

To be fair, you can learn quite a bit in two months on AVS, given you know how to weed through the BS. :)

czachari

11-27-08, 09:48 AM

I liked the Kuro a bit better, the wife liked the Panny better. Go figure. The 50 inch Kuro can be had rather cheaply now (online) about $500 more than the 800u. If I were getting a 50 I'd go for the 5020FD. It is a better tv.

papin412

11-27-08, 10:04 AM

For the low-end, I think its a toss between panasonic and samsung but for the mid to mid-high I prefer samsung(look at the last fp shootout) and of course the high-end belongs to pioneer.

Cleveland Plasma

11-27-08, 10:24 AM

To each his own. Think of how many people tomorrow are going to buy a unit tomorrow at a super low price. These units will have big so called quality names, these are units that have never been seen before that are stripped to the bone.

Panasonic makes a great unit along with Samsung and Pioneer.

Amishman

11-27-08, 10:33 AM

Think of how many people tomorrow are going to buy a unit tomorrow at a super low price.

What % of annual sales are you going to do tomorrow? 30%? 40%?

E-A-G-L-E-S

11-27-08, 10:36 AM

The bold in the quote says it all...

Best Overall Picture Quality: Pioneer Pro-111FD LOL AT CNET
Best Overall Picture for the Money: Panasonic THPZ800U
Best Flat Panel LCD: Sony KDL-55XBR8
Best Big Screen: Samsung HL61A750
Best Flat Panel Bang for your Buck: Panasonic TH42PX80U

Hilarious Paul....only you would reference Consumer Reports and laugh at CNET...who happens to agree with almost every other single 'reputable' reviewer.

derek533

11-27-08, 11:12 AM

*Edited in the spirit of good will and peace on earth (hey, it's Christmas time!).

Everyone has their favorite brand but when you put it in to relative terms, all of today's sets are pretty reliable and give excellent pq for the dollar. Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonic, Hitachi, Toshiba, Sony, Sharp (except the color banding:)), JVC are all good brands and one is likely to never have a single problem. The problem with reliability reporting is that only the people who have problems take the time to fill out CR surveys.

Fanaticalism

11-27-08, 04:44 PM

Don't even try Eagles. Read the first page where I called out omeletpants. He didn't like it too much.

Everyone has their favorite brand but when you put it in to relative terms, all of today's sets are pretty reliable and give excellent pq for the dollar. Samsung, Pioneer, Panasonic, Hitachi, Toshiba, Sharp (except the color banding:)), JVC are all good brands are one is likely to never a single problem. The problem with reliability reporting is that only the people who have problems take the time to fill out CR surveys.

I agree entirely with this post.

I wouldn't say everyone. I personally am not loyal to a brand. I think it's silly. What I am loyal to, are my expectations of what I demand in a product.

discopaul

11-27-08, 04:51 PM

Panasonic makes a great unit along with Samsung and Pioneer.

Agreed.

discopaul

11-27-08, 04:55 PM

Hilarious Paul....only you would reference Consumer Reports and laugh at CNET...who happens to agree with almost every other single 'reputable' reviewer.

Your response to my post and your lack of response to the similar corpfan1 post is exactly what I'm talkin' 'bout.
So now you're arguing CNET is more reputable than CR. Whatevah dude! :cool:

al in cedar

11-27-08, 05:18 PM

I just picked up the Panny 50" PX80u off Newegg for 946. Free shipping, no tax.

mpclem0

11-27-08, 05:49 PM

Anybody that understands how CR rates products could see how the z800 Panasonic is not going to do well in this comparison. CR rates predominantly based on value vs MSRP. That is why the Samsung 650 is rated lower than the 650. The same thing used to happen every year with the Sony S and V series when I sold them. It is safe to say that the z80 Panasonic would have faired better and been a more accurate comparable given how CR evaluates tv's.

The only thing that struck me about the new CR rankings that they can see the quality of the Kuro. Even given the difference in picture quality the Kuro can not be considered a value product. The samsungs and panasonics often sell at much deeper discounts from MSRP which could explain why they saw the Kuro as a reasonable value.

gus738

11-27-08, 05:57 PM

Davewolfs you are going to have a very long thread if this keeps up, if you can afford it get the elite if you cannot then you cant, granted you are asking so im assuming you can so bite the bullet and get the elite,

To answer your question the difference in price vs the Picture Quality is worth it TO ME so if i was questioned or if i had to re purchase i would get the pro-111 over the panasonic so yes to me it sounds like a crazy question but thats just me.

Seriously, for the money are the Panasonics a better buy? Were talking around a $1500 difference on a TH-50PZ800U vs a Pioneer 111. Am I thinking crazy for even considering comparing these two sets?
Thoughts?

I AGREE 100%

I would rather spend the extra money and buy a good plasma.

moematthews

11-27-08, 09:05 PM

If you think about it, it's impossible to answer the original question. You can't say which TV is a better buy for the money if one of them isn't available for the same money. Looks like everyone has figured that out, though. The real question is whether the Pioneer's improved PQ justifies its price premium. That's something only the individual can decide.

And the recent Consumer Reports results should put to rest any doubt that value is a big consideration for them. Every review I have read on the Kuro Elites proclaim it as the best TV available - full stop. Once that has been established, you can then argue over whether the price premium is justified.