I'd like to get your thoughts on something.


I have a non-HDMI X360. I have the Sammy 40a450. Now, connection is good with the component cables provided with the system, but recent curiousity brought me to purchase the VGA cable for the system, a $50 VGA-to-HDMI converter (not a scaler), and an HDMI cable. Here's my thing, when connected with the VGA cable straight to the Sammy, certain picture options are no longer available to tweak on the set, and I get that, it is expecting the "PC" to handle its own picture tweaks. But when I connected to the Sammy through the converter and HDMI cable (syncs at 1360x768, same as through VGA), certain picture options are greyed out from tweaking (HDMI Black Level, Color, and Tint being the main options I want to tweak). These options are key for me because I want to make use of the Expanded black level settings of the X360 (along with upscaling of DVDs), and the "default" settings the set goes to when the options are blocked give me an unusable washed out picture.

Also, almost as a "HAHA" taunt to me, when I set the X360 to the res of 640x480, ALL of the picture options on the Sammy are available for tweaking (even the HDMI Black Level option) when connected through the VGA-to-HDMI connection. So I guess I'm kinda mindf***ed here. Why are the options available to me in 640x480, but not in 1360x768?

Anybody have any ideas? Am I SOL? Worst case scenario (not really bad) is that I'll just leave the X360 connected directly with VGA (with Standard, not Expanded black level) and use the converter for connecting my laptop when I play online chess, Sim City 3000, watch online streams, etc.

I read some things from one of the other threads, and I think I solved my problem. I labeled the HDMI2 channel "PC" on my Sammy, and power-cycled it and my X360. Now, I have nice flush colors and strong blacks with the expanded black level setting on my X360. Settings are still greyed out, but my picture is now AWESOME, so I can only assume the full RGB color scale is now being taken in.

i'm just curious where you found a VGA to HDMI converter for $50...

What is your hdmi black level set to in the tv's settings? Normal or Low?

I read some things from one of the other threads, and I think I solved my problem. I labeled the HDMI2 channel "PC" on my Sammy, and power-cycled it and my X360. Now, I have nice flush colors and strong blacks with the expanded black level setting on my X360. Settings are still greyed out, but my picture is now AWESOME, so I can only assume the full RGB color scale is now being taken in.

After some further "work", it seems I have to turn brightness a few clicks too far down to get good colors, causing black crush. In reducing black crush, I get ok colors, just not what I'm to in comparison to where I was with the component cables and what my PS3 gives with HDMI. I really miss having the option to increase the color setting on my set.

I go back and forth a bit from connecting directly with the VGA cable to connection with my VGA-to-HDMI converter to try to spot any minute differences between the two, and they seem about equal. It's just kinda screwing with my mind if I'm missing something or not. It's still weird how with 640x480, my picture setting options are available for tweaking, but are greyed out with the 1360x768 resolution. And I've noticed that the set goes into "PC mode" when the X360 is running 1360x768.

I've seen talk about certain HDMI signal options available on HDMI X360s, but those are not available to me (must be a HDMI-specific hardware feature). The HDMI black level setting on my set is greyed out on "Normal", but it doesn't seem to be taking the full 0-255 signal properly, as I either have noticeable black crush or a bit of a washed out picture.

If anyone is curious enough, I could take some comparison shots with each connection. My camera is not the best, though. lol




Any thoughts?

i'm just curious where you found a VGA to HDMI converter for $50...

I caught one on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/VGA-Audio-HDMI-Converter-Adapter/dp/B0015YWV1G/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228024913&sr=8-11

Post some comparisons if you can later. :D

After some further "work", it seems I have to turn brightness a few clicks too far down to get good colors, causing black crush. In reducing black crush, I get ok colors, just not what I'm to in comparison to where I was with the component cables and what my PS3 gives with HDMI. I really miss having the option to increase the color setting on my set.

I go back and forth a bit from connecting directly with the VGA cable to connection with my VGA-to-HDMI converter to try to spot any minute differences between the two, and they seem about equal. It's just kinda screwing with my mind if I'm missing something or not. It's still weird how with 640x480, my picture setting options are available for tweaking, but are greyed out with the 1360x768 resolution. And I've noticed that the set goes into "PC mode" when the X360 is running 1360x768.

I've seen talk about certain HDMI signal options available on HDMI X360s, but those are not available to me (must be a HDMI-specific hardware feature). The HDMI black level setting on my set is greyed out on "Normal", but it doesn't seem to be taking the full 0-255 signal properly, as I either have noticeable black crush or a bit of a washed out picture.

If anyone is curious enough, I could take some comparison shots with each connection. My camera is not the best, though. lol




Any thoughts?

I stumbled across an interesting CNN review. This is not on the particular set I own, but I guess there may be some correlation ... this set was released/reviewed Nov 07, mine was released Feb 08.

Here's an excerpt:

PC performance dropped off a bit when we switched to the set's analog VGA input; while resolution was still full with no overscan, onscreen objects appeared a bit softer, and we detected some interference in the highest horizontal resolution patterns.

We were frankly surprised by the dropoff in analog PC quality because Samsung's 1080p sets, both plasma and LCD, are usually superb in this regard, but at the end of the day it won't matter to most users. The analog VGA input is still perfectly serviceable for casual connections, and serious PC users will want to go in via HDMI anyway.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/ptech/11/14/samsung.tv/index.html


Is it possible that any PQ deficits I notice with VGA could be due to Samsung slacking on that input?

I caught one on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/VGA-Audio-HDMI-Converter-Adapter/dp/B0015YWV1G/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1228024913&sr=8-11
oh ok. it just seems like a waste of money to me though, only because component from the 360 normally looks very good, and the Samsung 450 is a very good 720p set, so the picture should look very good. kinda one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" types of situations, and it doesn't seem like it was broke...

oh ok. it just seems like a waste of money to me though, only because component from the 360 normally looks very good, and the Samsung 450 is a very good 720p set, so the picture should look very good. kinda one of those "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" types of situations, and it doesn't seem like it was broke...


Yeah. But then, as I said in the first post, I got curious. Mainly with wanting to make use of the expanded black level setting and DVD upscaling on X360.

So I'm going ahead and just connecting my X360 directly by VGA. Black crush is present moreso by the VGA-to-HDMI connection than by direct VGA. I think this is due to the 0-255 scale being accepted and displayed over VGA, and crushed through the converter. With the calibration pic provided in another thread, I noticed everything under 16 IRE(?) is crushed when sent through the VGA-to-HDMI converter (TV wanting a 16-235 scale). This does not seem to be the case through VGA, as the full scale is visible with proper settings.

Oh well, it was worth a try. I still benefit because I now have the benefits of VGA with my X360, and I'm now use the converter for the occasional times I may want to connect my laptop up to my TV. I'm not so particular about PQ in this case, and the slight washout or black crush I'll get is not much of a bother.