I just tried a laptop, outputting hdmi with a resolution of 1920x1080 on two different tvs.

panasonic th50pz85
and
sharp aquos LC52D85U

Unfortunately I was at a department store and I was unable to adjust any of the tvs settings.

On the panasonic, the picture was scaled exactly, but the text looked a little blurred.
On the sharp, the picture was bigger than the screen (overscan??), but you could tell the text looked much clearer.

I know that many say lcd is better than plasma for PC hook up... but since both TVs support the same native resolution - I would expect the clarity of the picture to be very close.

Does anybody know if the scaling of the tv could have caused this blurriness?

I know sharp has a 1:1 pixel mapping mode.. what about this panasonic??

**If HD size wasn't set to "Size 2" could that explain the blurryness on the panasonic? As I mentioned I didn't "see" any overscan problems with the panasonic.. just not a sharp image.

thank you

Panasonic has made some serious fhttp://i34.tinypic.com/2qm3pr8.gi****ups in all their new PDPs. In particular, none will do 1920x1080p through the VGA port (if they have one). HDMI takes 1080i for sure, but many have already had trouble (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1069063&highlight=panasonic+dvi+hdmi+problem) getting even this 'new' digital input to work with 1080p.

hmmm... well I haven't had the problem with the shutdown of the plasma... I'm just talking about picture sharpness.

Are there any other threads or links that talk about this?

I really thought that plasmas should be able to display the same clarity and sharpness of lcd.. through a computer input or not.

I know the laptop was set to 1920x1080@60Hz... I don't know if the frequency matters or not... or if the timings could make a difference in picture clarity...

hmmm... well I haven't had the problem with the shutdown of the plasma... I'm just talking about picture sharpness.

Are there any other threads or links that talk about this?

I really thought that plasmas should be able to display the same clarity and sharpness of lcd.. through a computer input or not.

I know the laptop was set to 1920x1080@60Hz... I don't know if the frequency matters or not... or if the timings could make a difference in picture clarity...Plasma's are great for playing games and watching movies but are still not up to par when it comes to PC usage. If you plan on using the HDTV a lot for PC usage, I'd stick to an LCD.

Plasma's are great for playing games and watching movies but are still not up to par when it comes to PC usage. If you plan on using the HDTV a lot for PC usage, I'd stick to an LCD.

Thanks clown... I have heard this many times - but I've never heard why exactly that is... especially these days with 1080P 1920x1080 full resolution and hdmi input.

A blue ray player outputs a nice crisp picture to a plasma - my PC should do just the same.

I confirmed that the pz85 was set to "size 2" when the laptop was hooked up to it - does anyone know what refresh rate to use on the computer? also, are there any settings on the pz85 that could limit noise or increase clariy?

Thank you

I just tried a laptop, outputting hdmi with a resolution of 1920x1080 on two different tvs.

panasonic th50pz85
and
sharp aquos LC52D85U

Unfortunately I was at a department store and I was unable to adjust any of the tvs settings.

On the panasonic, the picture was scaled exactly, but the text looked a little blurred.
On the sharp, the picture was bigger than the screen (overscan??), but you could tell the text looked much clearer.

I know that many say lcd is better than plasma for PC hook up... but since both TVs support the same native resolution - I would expect the clarity of the picture to be very close.

Does anybody know if the scaling of the tv could have caused this blurriness?

I know sharp has a 1:1 pixel mapping mode.. what about this panasonic??

**If HD size wasn't set to "Size 2" could that explain the blurryness on the panasonic? As I mentioned I didn't "see" any overscan problems with the panasonic.. just not a sharp image.

thank you

If it wasn't set to size 2 according to at least 1 reputable calibrator you won't be getting full resolution. Panasonics are known for their resolution, they are much better than the Pioneer Non-elites and slightly better than the elites in this area(at least according to reviews) , so it would surprise me you found it blurry. If I remember correctly from my short time with the 85U they reset to size 1 every time you turn them off so it's possible that's what it was set to.

With that said after my plasma PC experience I can't recommend one for it, there are too many issues. Even if your plasma can fully resolve 1080p you still have the ABL which will constantly be changing brightness of the screen and it is VERY noticeable in a PC environment.

I went back yesterday and I verified it was set to size 2 while teh laptop was hooked up - I think there might be some problems with vertical/horizontal shift? or some other tv setting... not to sure.

what is abl?

ABL is automatic brightness limiter, it limits brightness depending on the scene.
Example: You open a web page, like google, while viewing it in a window. in a small size window (1/4 of the screen) it will a nice bright white. Start making that window bigger and it will progressively get dimmer.

As for the resolution of the screen it's entirely possible the LCD was sharper, they excel at this because they are true pixel based display while plasmas are phosphor based which limits them a bit, kinda like CRTs

Hmmm.. I think it might be a driver problem actually.. from the nvidia forums:

********
HURRAH!
I have an 8800gts with two samsung SyncMaster 940bw lcds.
Their native resolution is 1440x900. my graphics card kept displaying them at 1280x1024. I send nvidia's tech support and email they (quickly) responded and told me to do a custom timing. It DID NOT WORK. I would create the custom timing and then test it. the test would fail. bummer. so i was waiting for them to answer me back and i decided to do some more research.
It now works.
Here is what i did to get it to work...

1. NVIDIA Control Panel > Display > Manage custom timings.
2. Click both "Treat as HDTV" and "Allow modes not exposed by the display"
3. Click [Create...]
4. Under Custom display mode values:
Horizontal desktop pixels: 1440
Vertical desktop lines: 900
GDI Refresh rate: 60
Bits per pixel: 32
(don't have "Interlaced" checked)
5. Click [Advanced >>] (by the way this is where I didn't go when NVIDIA emailed me)
6. Under "Back-end parameters":
Timing standard: DMT
Desired refresh rate: 60
(the rest of the fields are grayed out)
7. Under "Front-end paramers"
Scaling type: Display (none)
8. Click [Test]
9. Click [OK]

And Presto Chango! No more fuzz.

I hope this works for you all. I was frustrated with my brand new graphics card not working properly...
131529
***********

I bought the TV so when I get it I'll play with it a bit and I'll post whether it works or not.

Hmmm.. I think it might be a driver problem actually.. from the nvidia forums:

********
HURRAH!
I have an 8800gts with two samsung SyncMaster 940bw lcds.
Their native resolution is 1440x900. my graphics card kept displaying them at 1280x1024. I send nvidia's tech support and email they (quickly) responded and told me to do a custom timing. It DID NOT WORK. I would create the custom timing and then test it. the test would fail. bummer. so i was waiting for them to answer me back and i decided to do some more research.
It now works.
Here is what i did to get it to work...

1. NVIDIA Control Panel > Display > Manage custom timings.
2. Click both "Treat as HDTV" and "Allow modes not exposed by the display"
3. Click [Create...]
4. Under Custom display mode values:
Horizontal desktop pixels: 1440
Vertical desktop lines: 900
GDI Refresh rate: 60
Bits per pixel: 32
(don't have "Interlaced" checked)
5. Click [Advanced >>] (by the way this is where I didn't go when NVIDIA emailed me)
6. Under "Back-end parameters":
Timing standard: DMT
Desired refresh rate: 60
(the rest of the fields are grayed out)
7. Under "Front-end paramers"
Scaling type: Display (none)
8. Click [Test]
9. Click [OK]

And Presto Chango! No more fuzz.

I hope this works for you all. I was frustrated with my brand new graphics card not working properly...
131529
***********

I bought the TV so when I get it I'll play with it a bit and I'll post whether it works or not.
1920x1080 doesn't need custom timings so unfortunately I don't think this is the issue. The resolution you're speaking of is very uncommon on Monitors which is why it needs a custom timing. Nvidia graphics cards at least my 8800GTS and GTX 280 detect TVs and automatically go into HDTV mode.

Thank you for the feedback - I really appreciate it.

So, if I had a blue ray player.. and I'm watching a movie on an LCD and Plasma side-by-side....

And the movie shows text on the screen that is relatively small (or some other relatively small item)..

The LCD will show it better? Does the LCD just have a sharper image? I don't think I've read that anywhere before..

Thank you for the feedback - I really appreciate it.

So, if I had a blue ray player.. and I'm watching a movie on an LCD and Plasma side-by-side....

And the movie shows text on the screen that is relatively small (or some other relatively small item)..

The LCD will show it better? Does the LCD just have a sharper image? I don't think I've read that anywhere before..While I'm no expert, Plasma's use dithering so the image won't be as clear as an LCD when sitting close to the display.

Plasma's are great for playing games and watching movies but are still not up to par when it comes to PC usage. If you plan on using the HDTV a lot for PC usage, I'd stick to an LCD.

I think this is one area where Clown and I agree.

If you are going to use the set for a PC, Then LCD is the way to go. LCD is great for a Computer monitor.

Although I am actually using my Kuro Plasma right now while typing this, I think an LCD would be the better suited for it.

You wouln't want to use a Plasma for a computer monitor, Just like you wouldn't want to use an LCD for Movies, sports, or games.

Its not that the letters of text or anything will look better on the LCD, Its just that LCD was meant for displaying still images for long periods of time, Plasma is meant for moving images.

But todays plasmas can display still/static images for a ridiculous amount of time and have no issues with IR or burn-in..

But the cheaper/older plasmas, might get some IR or evenworse, burn-in.

Thanks so much for your help so far.

I guess I should clarify my goals....

While my TV will be connected to my computer - it mostly won't be used for computer related tasks.

It will be used as a multimedia box to mostly play movies, tv, and some games.

I like the idea of plasma for watching movies and playing games, so I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of clarity on the still images.

Does dithering only effect still images?

Thanks

Thanks so much for your help so far.

I guess I should clarify my goals....

While my TV will be connected to my computer - it mostly won't be used for computer related tasks.

It will be used as a multimedia box to mostly play movies, tv, and some games.

I like the idea of plasma for watching movies and playing games, so I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of clarity on the still images.

Does dithering only effect still images?

Thanks

I would not worry about dithering unless you plan on sitting ridiculously close to the set.
Its only something you notice up close.
The only time I notice it is when I am about 2-3 feet fom the set and during a particularly crappy HD cable signal.
During a good blu-ray, I don't see it really.

But Plasma really does display the better picture with movies, games, sports, etc.

Here are a couple of articles that you might like:

Plasma vs LCD: Which One? (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/21/plasma-vs-lcd-plasma-is-still-better/)


Smarthouse: Plasma/LCD research (http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Plasma/H3Q5M9F6)


Five reasons to pick plasma over LCD (http://www.digitalhome.ca/content/view/1961/206/)


Research-shows-Plasma-Trumps-LCD-in-consumer-preference (http://www.synovate.com/news/article/2006/08/research-shows-plasma-trumps-lcd-in-consumer-preference.html)


Best-plasma-ever-vs-best-lcd-ever-verdict-plasma-wins (http://gizmodo.com/336498/best-plasma-ever-vs-best-lcd-ever-verdict-plasma-wins)


Pro-111FD Review (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/flatpaneldisplays/808pio111/)


CNET Gives Plasma the first "PERFECT 10" In Performance (http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/pioneer-elite-kuro-pro/4505-6482_7-33002556.html?tag=centerColumnArea2.0)

I think this is one area where Clown and I agree.

If you are going to use the set for a PC, Then LCD is the way to go. LCD is great for a Computer monitor.

Although I am actually using my Kuro Plasma right now while typing this, I think an LCD would be the better suited for it.

You wouln't want to use a Plasma for a computer monitor, Just like you wouldn't want to use an LCD for Movies, sports, or games.

Its not that the letters of text or anything will look better on the LCD, Its just that LCD was meant for displaying still images for long periods of time, Plasma is meant for moving images.

But todays plasmas can display still/static images for a ridiculous amount of time and have no issues with IR or burn-in..

But the cheaper/older plasmas, might get some IR or evenworse, burn-in.You were making valid points until you mentioned how folks wouldn't want to use an LCD for movies, sports and games. That's an ignorant statement right there bud.

You were making valid points until you mentioned how folks wouldn't want to use an LCD for movies, sports and games. That's an ignorant statement right there bud.

Sure you can use an LCD for those things.
But Plasma is the much better choice.
Thats just the way it is.
Its all about motion. And LCD technlogy has problems with motion. LCD requires faster refresh rates and frame tampering in order to make the motion watchable just like Plasma needs Orbitors/Pixel shifters and phoshphor advancements to combat burn-in/IR.

Sure you can use an LCD for those things.
But Plasma is the much better choice.
Thats just the way it is.
Its all about motion. And LCD technlogy has problems with motion. LCD requires faster refresh rates and frame tampering in order to make the motion watchable just like Plasma needs Orbitors/Pixel shifters and phoshphor advancements to combat burn-in/IR.Are you comparing first generation LCD's to Plasma's or something? I have no issues with fast moving content on my LCD HDTV.

Are you comparing first generation LCD's to Plasma's or something? .

No I am not comparing 1st gen LCD's.
This is a problem with all LCD's. Its just part of the TEchnology.

I have no issues with fast moving content on my LCD HDTV.

Most likely you have gotten used to it.

No I am not comparing 1st gen LCD's.
This is a problem with all LCD's. Its just part of the TEchnology.



Most likely you have gotten used to it.It's not that I have gotten used to it. It's because it's not a big problem like you're trying to make it out to be. Kind of like how you choose to ignore dithering.

It's not that I have gotten used to it. It's because it's not a big problem like you're trying to make it out to be. Kind of like how you choose to ignore dithering.

Here I can help you.

When you are watching objects or people in motion and you kinda notice something like this:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/ghosting-1.jpg?t=1228018869


You are seeing motion problems.

Here I can help you.

When you are watching objects or people in motion and you kinda notice something like this:

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/ghosting-1.jpg?t=1228018869


You are seeing motion problems.Only problem is that you provided a picture which isn't even animated. I NEVER notice anything like that on my LCD HDTV. I'd probably notice it if I was on some serious drugs though. That picture kind of reminds me of the phosphor effect on Plasma's though.

picture kind of reminds me of the phosphor effect on Plasma's though.

Then you have never seen the phosphor effect on plasma.
Because you don't even know what it looks like.

Then you have never seen the phosphor effect on plasma.
Because you don't even know what it looks like.Oh I do. Looks like an acid trip. You know what I'm talking about buddy. Don't hide it. =)

Thank you for the feedback - I really appreciate it.

So, if I had a blue ray player.. and I'm watching a movie on an LCD and Plasma side-by-side....

And the movie shows text on the screen that is relatively small (or some other relatively small item)..

The LCD will show it better? Does the LCD just have a sharper image? I don't think I've read that anywhere before..

LCDs are just sharper than plasmas, remember it's only been a couple years since they've even been able to make a 1080p plasma. I don't think this is anything that would come up in video though, just pixel based stuff like PC use than needs one pixel lines.

No I am not comparing 1st gen LCD's.
This is a problem with all LCD's. Its just part of the TEchnology.
O RLY? How come I don't notice it on my Westinghouse TX-42F430S then? It wasn't a problem when I originally got it, and it still isn't.

I understand that you prefer plasmas over LCDs, but that doesn't mean that LCDs are a bad display technology. In fact, in the case of the Samsung LN55A950, the LCD absolutely murders plasma performance in terms of brightness, color, black levels, and response time.

O RLY? How come I don't notice it on my Westinghouse TX-42F430S then? It wasn't a problem when I originally got it, and it still isn't.
.

You have grown so accustomed to it you don't notice it probably.

But put a Kuro owner in front of a westinghouse LCD and we will most likely notice it.

Some LCD's looks pretty good with motion most of the time. But I have yet to find one that the motion smearing/blurring didn't rear its ugly head eventually.


I understand that you prefer plasmas over LCDs, but that doesn't mean that LCDs are a bad display technology. .

Noone said it was a bad technology so don't put words in my mouth.
It is just a simple fact that Plasma is capable of the better picture.
No matter what the salesman told you about the 950 or XBR8.


In fact, in the case of the Samsung LN55A950, the LCD absolutely murders plasma performance in terms of brightness, color, black levels, and response time.

Did you just actually say it "murders" plasmas.
Where did you read this?? Who told you this??

I wouldn't make statements like that. It just shows that you don't know much at all about plasma.

Brightness: This is where experience and knowing about flat panel tech comes into play.
the 950 has the ability to go much brighter than needed for calibration. (But in most experts opinion, you will never need to use all of that brightness. If you get a 950 and don't plan on eventually calibrating it then that is a big waste.) And most people use that brightness during times when there is a heavy amount of incoming light. But what some don't realize is that the reflective screen on the 950 just about makes that brightness pointless.
What good is brightness is there is a huge glare on the screen?

Color: NO. The 950 and 111/151fd (if calibrated properly) are both so close to perfect, that your eyes won't be able to tell.

Black Levels: BIG NO! Kuro Blacks are noticably darker than the 950 during content. And thats when it matters. Read up on it.

Responce time????: LCD responce time has a delay. Plasma are practically instantanious. This is why Plasma is better for sports, movies, games, etc.

If you would like some links to reviews,articles,etc that go into this, just let me know.

LCDs are just sharper than plasmas, remember it's only been a couple years since they've even been able to make a 1080p plasma. I don't think this is anything that would come up in video though, just pixel based stuff like PC use than needs one pixel lines.

I wouldn't say that.

The 1080p plasmas are just as sharp (if not sharper) than the 1080p LCD's in my experience.
Once resolution is taken out of the equation, contrast and things like that are what makes a picture "Sharper".

I would bet that alot of people think sharpness is actually edge enhansement.

I wouldn't say that.

The 1080p plasmas are just as sharp (if not sharper) than the 1080p LCD's in my experience.
Once resolution is taken out of the equation, contrast and things like that are what makes a picture "Sharper".

I would bet that alot of people think sharpness is actually edge enhansement.

Well not the 5020 or 6020 at least. Not being able to draw a single pixel line isn't edge enhancement chad ;) It's a bit ridiculous to have to buy an elite to actually get a TV that can resolve 1920x1080 but that's the truth. Even a cheapo LCD has more resolution than a non elite Kuro. Panasonics have tons of dithering and Samsungs too so other than the elite where are these "sharp" plasmas..

Then if you complain about it you get ignored because you are dissing the almighty Kuro, so much for free speech ;)

Wow... seems my post turned into a plasma vs lcd flame war :(
I know there are other places to argue about these 2 technologies. I really just wanted to know why the text was a little blurry on the plasma when inputting a 1080P video signal.

Thank you for all that have contributed. I think it's a little blurry because of the "dithering" that is done by the TV.

As I mentioned I did purchase the Panny th50pz85. I will play around with the settings once it arrives and if I like it I'll keep it - if not I'll consider an LCD.

If anyone knows if there are any dithering settings on the panny (turn it off or make it do "less") please let me know.

Thanks again.

Wow... seems my post turned into a plasma vs lcd flame war :(
I know there are other places to argue about these 2 technologies. I really just wanted to know why the text was a little blurry on the plasma when inputting a 1080P video signal.

Thank you for all that have contributed. I think it's a little blurry because of the "dithering" that is done by the TV.

As I mentioned I did purchase the Panny th50pz85. I will play around with the settings once it arrives and if I like it I'll keep it - if not I'll consider an LCD.

If anyone knows if there are any dithering settings on the panny (turn it off or make it do "less") please let me know.

Thanks again.Congrats on the purchase. Make sure you don't forget to turn off your PC when not in use or you'll end up with burn-in.

Or you could simply set a screensaver...

With that said after my plasma PC experience I can't recommend one for it, there are too many issues. Even if your plasma can fully resolve 1080p you still have the ABL which will constantly be changing brightness of the screen and it is VERY noticeable in a PC environment.
ABL doesn't kick in if you have the brightness set low enough, so it's more a matter of whether that's bright enough for your needs.

Or you could simply set a screensaver...


ABL doesn't kick in if you have the brightness set low enough, so it's more a matter of whether that's bright enough for your needs.

For the record I own a plasma and ABL is always working unless you like a picture that's so dim it's barely watchable in a dark room

Not being able to draw a single pixel line isn't edge enhancement chad ;)


What do you mean "Not being able to draw a single pixel line"??

DO you mean the TV cant display an lmage that shows a single pixel line??

I mean the TV can't resolve 1080p properly, it's not giving you all the detail. A single pixel line (like text) will be obviously blurred when you A/B it. It's noticeable a tad on high quality content like Blu Ray. If you want to see it in action you can switch between enhancer mode 1/2. NEs are locked to enhancer 2 which kills resolution.

I mean the TV can't resolve 1080p properly, it's not giving you all the detail. A single pixel line (like text) will be obviously blurred when you A/B it. It's noticeable a tad on high quality content like Blu Ray. If you want to see it in action you can switch between enhancer mode 1/2. NEs are locked to enhancer 2 which kills resolution.Pretty interesting. Thanks for the info.

I mean the TV can't resolve 1080p properly, it's not giving you all the detail. A single pixel line (like text) will be obviously blurred when you A/B it. It's noticeable a tad on high quality content like Blu Ray. If you want to see it in action you can switch between enhancer mode 1/2. NEs are locked to enhancer 2 which kills resolution.

I never noticed this on either the 6020 or the 151.

here is a single pixel line on my 151.

I don't remember it looking much different on my 6020.
but who knows:


http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/001-9.jpg?t=1228195674

I never noticed this on either the 6020 or the 151.

here is a single pixel line on my 151.

I don't remember it looking much different on my 6020.
but who knows:


http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm71/chadmak09/001-9.jpg?t=1228195674That looks like a pic off of a CRT to me. Those 2 lines are suppose to be straight and not curved.

I never noticed this on either the 6020 or the 151.

here is a single pixel line on my 151.

I don't remember it looking much different on my 6020.
but who knows:


No offense but a digicam pic won't show this. This is a fact that even ISF calibrators will confirm.

No offense but a digicam pic won't show this. This is a fact that even ISF calibrators will confirm.

You said that they werent able to display a single pixel line.
The picture shows that it can.

If you have a PS3, go to that prompt and look yourself. You will probably see that that is in fact a single pixel line and it is nice and sharp.

That looks like a pic off of a CRT to me. Those 2 lines are suppose to be straight and not curved.

Would you like for me to back up and snap another picture so you can see the TV?

Would you like for me to back up and snap another picture so you can see the TV?I've seen enough already.