Hi guys im new to these fourms saying hi and gonna ask a question. i am going to purchase a HtiB but didnt like many i seen although this one seems to be pretty decent my question is is this Onkyo system any good and how would i go about hooking it all up sorry im new with home theaters

sorry forgot to put in link
http://www.onkyo.ca/model.cfm?m=HT-S5100&class=Systems&p=i

There is a lot of great info in HTIB section of this forum. One thing to note is that set doesn't support Audio over HDMI. You would need to jump up to the 6100 series.

HDMI Audio adds the following benefits
- One Less Cable Between the receiver and your Ps3 (i'm assuming that's what your plugging in?)
- HD Audio Codec Support (with optical you're stuck with stere HD, or legacy codecs like dolby digital 5.1 or dts)

This is the link for the HTIB section of this forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=7&f=109

But I am just curious why do you want HTIB? Is it budgetary reasons? You can get a much better system with seperates.

yea, no reason to spend $$ on a system that won't even support multichannel PCM via HDMI.

I'd get separates if you can. Onkyo 606 and speaker kit from a speaker manufacturer would be better. Electronics companies don't make the best speakers, after all.

yea, no reason to spend $$ on a system that won't even support multichannel PCM via HDMI.

I'd get separates if you can. Onkyo 606 and speaker kit from a speaker manufacturer would be better. Electronics companies don't make the best speakers, after all.
Yeah I was thinking the Yamaha rx-v663 then a speaker package from someone like Emotiva. Like this deal they have now with free shipping

http://emotiva.com/speakers.shtm

And if you do a live.com search you can get 30% back after 60 days so say you find a buy it now on ebay for the 663 for $360 after 60 days you get $108 back you pay only 252 for the receiver.

So for a lil over 1k you can have a kick ass starter system.

BTW I bought my 663 that way and its a great receiver.

Plus whatever I buy off the net I always try to get free shipping. I cant remember the last time I paid shipping for something off the internet or ebay for that matter.

Heres another speaker company thats having a Black Friday deal too

http://**********/component/page,shop.browse/option,com_virtuemart/on_special,1/Itemid,131/

Now they do not advertise it but they sell Denon receivers so if you went with the speakers that include gift cards in the deals you can always use the gift cards to get a Denon 1909.

But I am just curious why do you want HTIB? Is it budgetary reasons? You can get a much better system with seperates.

I was just about to get one myself.

The thoughts behind it are:

1. Perhaps any random selection of parts (receiver, speakers, cabling etc) will work together, perhaps not. It theoretically should, but not all computer brand not working well with peripherals or the PS3 giving a black screen despite every piece being HDCP (with certain brand TVs) All in one carries a two-fold guarantee, the take it back if dead on arrival and the implicit guarantee that the parts in the box should work reasonably well together. Perhaps this isn't an issue in the audio field, but it is elsewhere.

(Is this a non-issue? That's important info! Many will probably go with a gut pessimistic stance)

2. From what I've seen reading around here, it seems HTIBs are fairly widely looked down on as being low end, but if so, it's consistently so. I've seen gripes about wasting a ps3 on a low end receiver. Getting a packed set you know you aren't wasting money on one component due to another holding it back. There's one post on another PS3 thread on how an average receiver with good speakers is far better than a great receiver with lousy speakers.

What part-wise is good? I think someone mentioned a rule of thumb of expect to spend twice as much on speakers as the receiver. Is special (gold or extra-thick) speaker wire worth it for the non-serious listener? Where should a new user focus?

3. One remote, without dealing with a "learning remote" that may or may not fit your system well. (Not all learning remotes are equal, and some leave a bad impression)

4. The thought that even if piece by piece is better, can I, the untrained ear tell the difference? A $600 system may be notably better per anyone's standards, a $700 may be better still, but at what point does the increase in quality cease to be worth the $ to jump up that extra step? That's subjective, but from all over I see "don't pay $200 and be done with it, spend a grand to get something worth having!" That's like telling someone looking for a car, don't even bother shopping until you're ready to buy a sports car, trust me, it's worth it. It may be, but there's going to be serious sticker shock. This on top of the shock of moving to a $200 all in one from the $50 boom box I've been playing tapes on, my $20 cd walkman and $20 CD player. The hop to $200 may be pushing it budget-wise, especially after buying a big ticket item like a PS3 or Blu-Ray player.

With things in flux at the moment, it doesn't look like a good time to go all out. We've just seen a number of HDTVs turn half-worthless over HDCP. Will the RIAA do something similar with audio? 5.1, 6.1 and 7.1 are drifting around. There's Dolby Pro-Logic 2, Dolby Digital, DTS (Is DTS going away? Philips is dropping it from some models!), new enhanced Dolby modes, new enhanced DTS modes, occasional glimpses of SACD and HDCD in stores. Why pay several hundred on the receiver if you're going to be kicking yourself in a year? Is there and end in sight to the flux we're currently in? Getting a small taste before leaping in seems reasonable, at least from the outside.

The push to save a little longer and spend a ?little? (often 5x) more should be followed with a link to a discussion of what's "good enough" for the casual listener. Is $1,000 the expected price to pay for a system for a not-really-an-audiophile? More, less? About 1/3 for a receiver and 2/3 for the subwoofer and 5 to 7 speakers?

5. Being out of your depth and not inclined to spend a few weeks getting up to speed if not really needed to get good results. It looks like it's a simple matter of get all the common needed things "5.1, Dolby Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital, DTS" and nothing else matters. That's what specs are for, right? There's admittedly more, but the concept of HTIB seems to promise that everything you REALLY need is inside.

6. Reviews. I found a lot more reviews for HTIBs than receivers. (This probably has a lot to do with those who would know to buy in pieces not going for the low end receivers) Those I've found for HTIBs tend to be glowing. Perhaps it's a scam from the companies themselves, but the Phillips HTS3544 among others looked pretty good. (Until I found the PS3 was 7.1 and started googling for what it takes to get the benefit of a PS3's power.)

The HTIB is a good idea. The jump from casual (< $100 for EVERYTHING) to the several hundred that seems to pass for semi-serious is a little daunting. Quick and easy are also, in and of themselves worth paying extra for. As for it not being as good as a system several times the cost, you can't miss what you haven't tried.

So, to clear things up:

1. Are HTIBs known for sounding BAD, or just not AS good as more expensive options?

2. What's the approximate $ a novice going for their 1st system should be looking to spend?

3. What's the approximate $ at which you're leaving the realm of "normal" and going into "audiophile" territory?

4. Is there anything up-and-coming format wise that makes it a good idea to wait a while before buying?

5. For that matter, is there already an accepted "acceptable low end setup" suggested for those wanting to get the benefit of a PS3 but who don't have a trained ear? A thread of suggestions for this? I'm still hunting through threads. If I find it I'll add the link to it here.

Thanks!

So far I've found:

>> I've been looking at the Onkyo TX-SR5100, Sony SS-2300 and the CT-100 HTiB. I'm only looking to spend $400 or less.

>> The sound system I am looking at is the Onkyo S4100, but the 7.1 system is the S5100.

> Get a really good (7.1 capable) 1.3 HDMI AVR First!
> minimum (a Yamaha RX-V663) goes for under $400
> or entry level Onkyo's seem quite popular.
> Avoid HTIB setups!

> P.S. By the looks of it the Onkyo HT-S5100 does not accept 7.1 LPCM. I could be
> wrong but it's not advertised in their website.

from showthread.php?t=1086144
(can't paste URLs, only on 2nd post, cut and paste in the address bar to follow link)

> The issue's with the 605. It can't matrix LPCM.
(onkyo 605)

from showthread.php?t=842477&page=3

> Your Onkyo 805 will decode all current codecs available

from showthread.php?t=842477&page=8

> I don't have a top of the line setup, but it isn't weak either:

> - Denon AVR-988 reciever
> - 7 Paradigm speakers and Yamaha Active subwoofer

from showthread.php?t=842477&page=9


>> I don't have a huge budget (paid $500+ for this one), but would really like to take
>> advantage of the audio from my PS3. Any suggestions for compatible receivers?

> I'm sure you can get a Denon 2808 at a good price right now (maybe even the 3808). > Either one will get you what you need.

from showthread.php?t=842477&page=11


I've seen a few threads bashing Onkyo's customer service, and Sony is themselves an iffy proposition. (I recognize the irony of saying that in connection with hooking up a PS3)


The best I've seen mention of for being affordable is the "Yamaha RX-V663"
showthread.php?t=995796
This is mentioned has not supporting "blacker than black" and:

If this receiver decodes a bitstream HD audio source, it cannot matrix it from 5.1 to 7.1 (Edit Oct 08: Several users are reporting that True HD can be matrixed to 7.1, but not DTS MA). If the source is 7.1, there is no issue. If the player decodes the audio and sends it as PCM, there is no issue. The 5.1 to 7.1 issue only happens when you try to make the receiver decode and matrix. This should only affect you in the future if/when players stop decoding audio and can only send them as bitstream.

When you switch from an analog video source, such as the on screen display (OSD), to a digital source, such as HDMI, your picture may be green or generally discolored. This is an hdcp handshake issue and can easily be resolved by switching to another digital source and back. This problem does not occur every time; in fact, I only see this issue with my 25ft PC DVI->HDMI connection. Others have reported the problem with older cable boxes.

From what I've seen, most everything should be mute so long as a receiver reads audio from 1.3, accepts LPCM and potentially supports 1 to 2 more codecs that may show up on Blu Ray but are unlikely to show up on games. If that's so, forget the extra codecs, wait a year for the latest audio upgrade to be in $100 stand-alone players that can do the same conversion to LPCM the PS3 does and just get a receiver that does what's needed right now, with decent sound quality.

I'll look into HTIB more later, and speaker setups, getting late.

Outside of the "blacker than black" problem, all the problems seem that they can be worked around. How serious is the "blacker than black" problem?

/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1019554

List of HTIB's and/or AVR's with HDMI audio processing (5.1/7.1 PCM) Help List

This includes the following note:


THE BIG "BUT" TO PCM

Just because the receiver is able to accept LPCM, it does not mean it will be able to process it. The LFE (Low Frequency Effects) channel which is represented by the ".1" in a 2.1, 5.1, or 7.1 system, is a audio channel that exclusively carries bass-only information. ... This channel, when received via PCM, needs to be boosted from 1db(decibel) to at least 10db or else you will hear a very low volume bass coming out of your subwoofer. The remaining channels need to be extracted from the LPCM signal, and if they are not you will get a a bassless sound, or at least the bass will be very low.

and the following list of HTIBs

Samsung
-AS720 (listed as 5.1 per Samsung's site under model HT-AS720ST)

(looking at their site Samsung has the HT-BD2ST and HT-BD2T, neither have HDMI input)

Sony
-HT-7200DH (Available May) (5.1 per sony's site)
-HT-CT100 (a speaker bar, not a surround system)
-HT-SS2300 (Coming this summer) (5.1 per sony's site)
-HT-SF2000 (5.1 per sony's site)
-HT-SS2000 (5.1 per sony's site)

(looking at Sony's site, they have 3 HTIB sections: Blu-Ray, DVD and Component. None list anything better than 5.1)


Onkyo
-HT-SP907 7.1
-HT-SP908 7.1

(It took some digging on Onkyo's site to find (search for 907 or 908 ONLY, search is broke)


The nearest dealer carries only the HTS7100 and HTS5100
The 5100 seems to only offer HDMI pass through so scratch it

The 7100 seems to do what I want, but HH Gregg's add mentions that it includes the TX-SR606 receiver. ($600 MSRP per Onkyo's site)

HH Gregg (my only local) wants $640 for the 7100. (Discounted from $800)


A friend just bought a STR-DG720 for $200 (normal price $300) and it does everything I want from the Onkyo 7100.

It seems while you might get a deal on a 5.1 HTIB that it may be cheaper to buy piece-wise for 7.1 sound.

So if you wanted to get a 360 or Wii going, there's lots of choices, for a PS3 there's ONE, and it's possibly VERY overpriced as a HTIB)

just picked up the onyko sr606 on amazon $319 delivered brand new. i also just got a basic 5.1 speaker set for now and will up grade later to 7.1.

the sr606 gets good reviews and it passes btb and wtw which was important to me as i will hook it up to a sony 40xbr4.

I'm about to try the Sony STR-DG720. A number of posts say this is a good receiver to get in lieu of a HTIB, but when I search for info on this model says don't get it, get such and such model costing $100 more. If you looked those up, the reviews would probably say to get a model $100 more than that. (Sensible, if eventually bank breaking.) I've seen a a little singing the praises of and condemning the model (depending on whether I was searching for a HTIB or the Sony respectively), but it looks better than what I was going for (the Phillips HTS3544/37). If the Philips is worth gushing over and the Sony is better, the Sony should be good enough as long as I don't spend too much time listening to better systems to know what I'm missing.

Now to find a good set of speakers.