Why all the hype for new LCD models and Samsung doing this and that, I've enjoyed my Kuro whlie having returned lesser models last year... what's next?

However, Pioneer can't get a 6020 in my house with it's 4k$ pricetag, the best and 2-3x more $ doesn't quite add up, 1.5x more maybe

what's to come?

Oh boy is this thread going to spiral into a frenzy.

Also, it's hardly 2-3x more. A 55 XBR costs more than a 151 which is 60", and 55a950 is 2k less, but again, 5" smaller. I'm talking Elites too.

Oh boy is this thread going to spiral into a frenzy.

that's kind of what i was hoping for, it seems every flat panel argument ends up with "this model is almost a kuro!" lol

I do think the Kuro has the best picture, if you can live with PTs (or don't see them) and don't have glare issues.

That being said, there are some of us who hope for the best of both worlds. :)

Why all the hype for new LCD models and Samsung doing this and that, I've enjoyed my Kuro whlie having returned lesser models last year... what's next?

However, Pioneer can't get a 6020 in my house with it's 4k$ pricetag, the best and 2-3x more $ doesn't quite add up, 1.5x more maybe

what's to come?

Shoulda kept that old Kuro until next year, the options are pretty limited right now, save up for an elite or be stuck with a display with limitations or poor performance, your choice

I do think the Kuro has the best picture, if you can live with PTs (or don't see them) and don't have glare issues.

That being said, there are some of us who hope for the best of both worlds. :)

Amen! I want a pixel perfect display that can be as bright as I want it to be with perfect blacks and motion, seems easy no? Maybe in a few years..

Amen! I want a pixel perfect display that can be as bright as I want it to be with perfect blacks and motion, seems easy no? Maybe in a few years..

That's why I went with the XBR6. It's very cost effective right now, you get the best non-LED you can buy for almost half of a Kuro Elite, and if there is a perfect display in 5 years I'll feel better about upgrading. :)

That's why I went with the XBR6. It's very cost effective right now, you get the best non-LED you can buy for almost half of a Kuro Elite, and if there is a perfect display in 5 years I'll feel better about upgrading. :)
I have an Elite 141 now and wouldn't have a problem upgrading in 5 years. :) I'm actually hoping OLED comes through in 5 years. A 60"-70" OLED for <$5000 in 5 years would be awesome. Well, I'm hoping at least. :)

I have an Elite 141 now and wouldn't have a problem upgrading in 5 years.

Hmmm...someone who would spend $7000 on a TV and expect to only use it for 5 years has a different outlook on life than I do. It's not that I don't have the money it's that I just can see the value.

A $2500 set for 5 years, that's about my comfort level (it's about where my Hitachi 50v500a was). A $4K set's gonna have to last longer.

Hmmm...someone who would spend $7000 on a TV and expect to only use it for 5 years has a different outlook on life than I do. It's not that I don't have the money it's that I just can see the value.

A $2500 set for 5 years, that's about my comfort level (it's about where my Hitachi 50v500a was). A $4K set's gonna have to last longer.
I'm VERY picky when it comes to displays. Most people don't pick up the things I see, so it was going to take a hell of a TV to satisfy me. The 141 did. The "value" comes from me being happy with what I see for the next 5+ years. If others are happy with less, that is great. Unfortunately, that's not the case with me. And quite honestly, the 141 is not a perfect display. But in 5 years, hopefully there will be a display MUCH closer to perfection than my set is.

I'm VERY picky when it comes to displays.

I can understand - I just can't imagine spending $7000 on a display and not expecting to use it for 10 years. I don't think I'm less picky than you are, I just think that I can't stomach spending $7000 on a display right now.

Are you saying that the "Signature Series" are PT proof? My friend brought a 111FD home this past weekend and we both saw PTs. He may be taking it back. It made gaming VERY sketchy and also made anime hard to watch at times. So I could easily spend $7000 and have something that, to me, is worse than the LCD I currently have.

Signature, Elite or just Kuro they are all the same panel. I've seen PTs on Panasonics but not really on the Pioneer I've got other than briefly when the TV was new. Generally they do better then other brands but the problem still exists and some people still see them.

Hmmm...someone who would spend $7000 on a TV and expect to only use it for 5 years has a different outlook on life than I do. It's not that I don't have the money it's that I just can see the value.

A $2500 set for 5 years, that's about my comfort level (it's about where my Hitachi 50v500a was). A $4K set's gonna have to last longer.

I understand where you are coming from but some of us are crazy :D Within 3 years I'll have changed TVs for sure and I just got this one a few months ago.

Why all the hype for new LCD models and Samsung doing this and that, I've enjoyed my Kuro whlie having returned lesser models last year... what's next?

This is the same old debate. Some of us just like to debate. Yes the Kuro Elite still is the best PQ in terms of black detail, but there are other qualities that are just as attractive to some of us with LCD. Forget Samsung, I am a LCD fan and given the choice I would choose a Kuro over any Samsung, LCD or plasma, purely because I just don't like Samsung as a company very much. There are many reasons why people like one tech over the other and even some manufacturers over others.

First PT's, now using msrp to compare to street pricing....come on Jaki.
Some people, myself included, can't stomach $100 for an LCD no matter which one.
Some people suffer from S&H among other things.
That is why we all have choices...if someone wants to spend alot every few years and enjoy the best each time more power to them. Wish Ihad their bank accounts.
The only reason most people 'settle' is due to finances.

Kuro has green phosphor lag even the Magnolia guy had to admit that it wasn't as perfect as he thought after I played this video on a 60" Kuro Elite proving that Kuro has Green Phosphor Trails.
P
Also, anyone who thinks that they can't see green trails on Plasmas will be convinced that they're real by watching the video below on a Plasma.
This is the DEFINITIVE PLASMA VIDEO to use when buying a new plasma.
After downloading the zip file, burn both folders onto a DVD and then finilize if needed and they should be playable on most dvd and bluray players.
I wish I had this dvd when I was buying a Plasma.
There are 2 commercials on the video, the first one is not important, but the 2nd on is the most important 30 seconds I've ever watched while owning a Plasma.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JCF4OJHP

Signature, Elite or just Kuro they are all the same panel. I've seen PTs on Panasonics but not really on the Pioneer I've got other than briefly when the TV was new. Generally they do better then other brands but the problem still exists and some people still see them.

So did it go away over time? This was brand new right out of the box and we saw it really bad. We were watching anime fansubs and when our eyes would move up from the subtitle to the screen we'd see it, as well as other bright scenes.

Kuro has green phosphor lag even the Magnolia guy had to admit that it wasn't as perfect as he thought after I played this video on a 60" Kuro Elite proving that Kuro has Green Phosphor Trails.
P
Also, anyone who thinks that they can't see green trails on Plasmas will be convinced that they're real by watching the video below on a Plasma.
This is the DEFINITIVE PLASMA VIDEO to use when buying a new plasma.
After downloading the zip file, burn both folders onto a DVD and then finilize if needed and they should be playable on most dvd and bluray players.
I wish I had this dvd when I was buying a Plasma.
There are 2 commercials on the video, the first one is not important, but the 2nd on is the most important 30 seconds I've ever watched while owning a Plasma.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JCF4OJHP

Nobody has said PTs are not real.

I have not seen them once after several months of ownership, so I really don't care. Don't take my not caring as a claim that they don't exist.

You are asking us to download specific content to see it. Why should we do that if we have never seen them in normal viewing? What difference would it make?

First PT's, now using msrp to compare to street pricing....come on Jaki.

Yes, PTs exist. I have no idea what "street price" is on a Signature series is.

The only reason most people 'settle' is due to finances.

Most people, perhaps. I could afford the $4K for a 111FD easy, if it was worth it. I'm not convinced it is. Blacks are nice. But if you're trading one kind of smearing for another and picking up the glare problem then I'm not sure it's worth the extra $1800 to me.

Nobody has said PTs are not real.

I have not seen them once after several months of ownership, so I really don't care. Don't take my not caring as a claim that they don't exist.

You are asking us to download specific content to see it. Why should we do that if we have never seen them in normal viewing? What difference would it make?

EVERYONE has seen them, they've just been camouflaged because of all the other stuff that's going on onscreen. This video shows it clearly without all the other stuff camouflaging it.

EVERYONE has seen them, they've just been camouflaged because of all the other stuff that's going on onscreen. This video shows it clearly without all the other stuff camouflaging it.

If you don't see them, regardless of reason, you don't see them. Period.

Jack, most people 'never' see them with 'any' normal content from 'any' source.

Is it possible that a new set, straight out of the box and not broken in, would have a slight issue until it was broken in? Because my friend and I saw it on his 111FD on the first thing we watched, as I have mentioned. We also saw it pretty bad on video games. It may be that things like anime and gaming are the worst case for the problem (we didn't see it on any live action we tried) but my friend watches a lot of anime and I play a lot of games . I'm gonna let him break the set in for a couple of weeks and then go back and see if I still see it.

Not sure, I certainly don't see it playing my PS3.
I think you may have trained yourself to see it. Doesn't mean it isn't there, but it does mean that most people never see regardless of source.
Stinks for you, just like RBE with DLP and S&H with LCD.....it's just that the latter two affect many more people.

Unfortunately, it sounds as if you should get a DLP or CRT-HD until OLED or some new tech comes out.
I truly do feel bad for you as for me I couldn't go back to something else from plasma.

Why all the hype for new LCD models and Samsung doing this and that, I've enjoyed my Kuro whlie having returned lesser models last year... what's next?

However, Pioneer can't get a 6020 in my house with it's 4k$ pricetag, the best and 2-3x more $ doesn't quite add up, 1.5x more maybe

what's to come?

And because the Kuro is considered the best, that's a clear indication of an arrested development in the display technology world.

So did it go away over time? This was brand new right out of the box and we saw it really bad. We were watching anime fansubs and when our eyes would move up from the subtitle to the screen we'd see it, as well as other bright scenes.

I'm guessing out of the box the phosphors need time to settle, then again it could be psychological too.

Kuro has green phosphor lag even the Magnolia guy had to admit that it wasn't as perfect as he thought after I played this video on a 60" Kuro Elite proving that Kuro has Green Phosphor Trails.
P
Also, anyone who thinks that they can't see green trails on Plasmas will be convinced that they're real by watching the video below on a Plasma.
This is the DEFINITIVE PLASMA VIDEO to use when buying a new plasma.
After downloading the zip file, burn both folders onto a DVD and then finilize if needed and they should be playable on most dvd and bluray players.
I wish I had this dvd when I was buying a Plasma.
There are 2 commercials on the video, the first one is not important, but the 2nd on is the most important 30 seconds I've ever watched while owning a Plasma.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JCF4OJHP
For God's sake, will you stop with the over exaggerated phosphor tail tirades. You bought a Panasonic plasma that you saw phosphor trails on, and now you go on about phosphor trails in every thread that plasma is mentioned.

Yes, there are PTs on Pioneer displays, but not nearly as bad as on a Panasonic. I play just about every popular game out today on the PS3 and 360, and I never notice any PTs. I only see PTs if I actively look for them. I actually think the 141 (or any other Elite) is the best performing HDTV for games. Games simply look and perform AMAZINGLY on this set. No other display can touch it. Like I said, NO HDTV tech is perfect now. You have to pick your poison or sit on the sidelines for a LONG time waiting for the perfect TV which may never come. For me, the Pioneer Elite 141 was the best set. Again, it is not perfect, but I can live with its shortcomings. Any other TV would bother the hell out of my.

For God's sake, will you stop with the over exaggerated phosphor tail tirades. You bought a Panasonic plasma that you saw phosphor trails on, and now you go on about phosphor trails in every thread that plasma is mentioned.

Yes, there are PTs on Pioneer displays, but not nearly as bad as on a Panasonic. I play just about every popular game out today on the PS3 and 360, and I never notice any PTs. I only see PTs if I actively look for them. I actually think the 141 (or any other Elite) is the best performing HDTV for games. Games simply look and perform AMAZINGLY on this set. No other display can touch it. Like I said, NO HDTV tech is perfect now. You have to pick your poison or sit on the sidelines for a LONG time waiting for the perfect TV which may never come. For me, the Pioneer Elite 141 was the best set. Again, it is not perfect, but I can live with its shortcomings. Any other TV would bother the hell out of my.


Let me correct you on this. He started with the PT threads well before he ever supposedly bought a plasma. He also stated that he was purchasing a Pioneer. Then, all of a sudden, he said he bought a Panasonic, and was disgusted by the PT's. What's even funnier, that he never posted pictures of his display, or bothered to show HIS display with a camera with a higher frame rate, like he did in one of his 5, then 7 threads.

Edit: I also forgot to mention, that before he went on a PT brigade, he used to start threads, about how CRT's had better motion resolution, black levels, and ansi, on/off contrast than any plasma. When the 9G's were released and the numbers were made public regarding everything I stated, he moved on to PT's; completely disregarding CRT flicker, and decay times.

I'm guessing out of the box the phosphors need time to settle, then again it could be psychological too.

If it's not there in two weeks I'll consider the Elite, but I'll also be considering the downsides...Plasmas are high maintenance. I didn't need to "break in" my LCD for 200 hrs. And the glare can be an issue - it was an issue with CRTs but I never had a CRT this big. :)

If it's not there in two weeks I'll consider the Elite, but I'll also be considering the downsides...Plasmas are high maintenance. I didn't need to "break in" my LCD for 200 hrs. And the glare can be an issue - it was an issue with CRTs but I never had a CRT this big. :)

The break-in got to me too but after that they are pretty much IR proof, I even used mine as my main computer monitor for a few weeks to no ill effect.

The break-in got to me too but after that they are pretty much IR proof, I even used mine as my main computer monitor for a few weeks to no ill effect.

It all depends if the thing we're seeing goes away or not. I don't know if it's PTs or not, but the first thing we watched on the TV was an anime fansub and when we would look up from the subtitles to the main action on screen we'd see some sort of weird ghosting or trailing or something.

It all depends if the thing we're seeing goes away or not. I don't know if it's PTs or not, but the first thing we watched on the TV was an anime fansub and when we would look up from the subtitles to the main action on screen we'd see some sort of weird ghosting or trailing or something.

The way you say that both of you saw it immediatly and as destictly as you describe, leads me to believe that it is not phosphor trails.

And dispite what captain Jack Phosphor says, Phosphor trails are Rare problem for plasma owners.. In fact, The VERY large majority that own plasmas don't even know what they are.
I am sure he would love to sit them down and train them to see them as to ruin thier satisfaction with Plasma, But hopefully they will continue to enjoy thier set and not worry about thing they can't see.

The way you say that both of you saw it immediatly and as destictly as you describe, leads me to believe that it is not phosphor trails.

Well, on video gaming the PTs looked like they did in sample videos. As for what we saw on the fansubs - what would it have been?

Let me correct you on this. He started with the PT threads well before he ever supposedly bought a plasma. He also stated that he was purchasing a Pioneer. Then, all of a sudden, he said he bought a Panasonic, and was disgusted by the PT's. What's even funnier, that he never posted pictures of his display, or bothered to show HIS display with a camera with a higher frame rate, like he did in one of his 5, then 7 threads.

Edit: I also forgot to mention, that before he went on a PT brigade, he used to start threads, about how CRT's had better motion resolution, black levels, and ansi, on/off contrast than any plasma. When the 9G's were released and the numbers were made public regarding everything I stated, he moved on to PT's; completely disregarding CRT flicker, and decay times.

So he may never of even owned a plasma? Let alone a Pioneer plasma? Wow, that's pathetic. Maybe he's been sent from the SED camp.

So he may never of even owned a plasma? Let alone a Pioneer plasma? Wow, that's pathetic. Maybe he's been sent from the SED camp.

That is exactly what I am saying. The way I see it, if he could've gone out of his way to capture PT on other displays, then why not of his own?

Seems very suspect to me.

The only thing that I regret about the 5010FD is that I didnt pony up to get a 6010FD :(

The only thing that I regret about the 5010FD is that I didnt pony up to get a 6010FD :(

I feel the same about my Pro110FD. Should've bought the 60". Oh well, I'm waiting for 10G or 11G before I get the 60"