Hi everyone,

I've been out of the market for a while now when it comes to upconverters since I bought my PS3 well over a year ago. My brother and I have now gotten my parents a 37" 720p LCD for christmas, and would like to find a good upconverter for under $100 that works well at 720p. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Happy Holiday to everyone!

I'm still going through this a bit of late trying to get a good (oxymoron?) sub $100 upconverter for my mother-in-law who is buying her first HDTV.

Here's what I can tell you and you can decide what matters to you or not:

Almost all of the mediatek based sub $100 players clip BTB (blacker than black) and WTW (whiter than white) over HDMI at any resolution. From my research this includes the Philips 59xx (verified by Huey), LG DN898 (verified first hand).

Allegedly the Pioneer DV-410v can be adjusted using the player controls to address this. I haven't gotten confirmation from anyone in the DV-410 thread that these adjustments will bring out BTB and WTW with the factory firmware. This one also plays high-res music formats (SACD, DVD-A).

I have a panasonic DVD-S54k on order that should arrive end of the week. I believe it will not clip BTB or WTW. The folks at Secrets of Home Theater (the review is about halfway down the page HERE (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=130). They hated the analog performance, but loved the HDMI output. I believe the S54 is really just an update of the S52, minus some picture adjustments, and it is based on the panasonic (Matsushita Mpeg decoder which I like back from the rp-82 days). If the S54k clips over HDMI, I'm giving up in my search for a sub $100 that has a correct implementation.

Why do I care about clipping? First thing one should do with a new dvd player is calibrate it to the display. The display should be able to display the range 0-255. True DVD (and BR) are supposed to be encoded to 16-235, but the display should display the values outside the range (0-15 and 236-255 can be present). See this ARTICLE (http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibrate-your-system/hdmi-black-levels-xvycc-rgb) for details. I use GetGray, DVE, etc. test patterns to verify this and set my black point (using brightness) steps between 0 and 16 and set my white point so that colors aren't shifted, whites are not crushed and that overall brightness hasn't maxed out and I can see steps between 235 and 255.

If you don't care about this, then you'll decide based on USB 1 versus 2, divx playback, mp3/mp4/wma playback or SACD/DVD-A, the remote, how the player looks, etc.

Thank you for the information, that will certainly help me in my search. My parents aren't going to be nearly as picky as I am (especially for a Christmas gift), but why settle? Thanks again for your help.

Just get them the Pioneer DV-410v. They will love it.

If you're considering the Pioneer DV-410, consider the Elite DV-48 which can be had on the internet for nearly the same cost (vanns.com). jeff

I don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm looking for exactly the same thing for myself except that I do care about the image quality, etc.


so to avoid making a new thread, which DVD player would y'all suggest?


and greeno, you mentioned the BTB/WTW w/ factory firmware...do subsequent firmware updates improve it?

so to avoid making a new thread, which DVD player would y'all suggest?

I've only been following the Oppo line recently. It starts with the 980 at $169 new, somewhat less refurbished.

-Bill

well, I'd still like to maintain a budget under $100...

I'm looking for an upconverter over HDMI for a 32" Samsung LCD


BTW, I had been considering the Philips DVP5960 or Sony DVP-NS75H

Pioneer DV-410.

I like the panasonic DV-S54. OOTB it doesn't clip BTB or WTW, like the pioneer, philips, lg DVD898. The 410 with tweaking will pass BTB and WTW levels to the display. There's no USB, doesn't play SACD, but it plays DVD-A, divx, etc., so it's not universal like the pioneer.

jeff

hmm, I read that DV-S52 link you posted earlier. you don't think the other problems it listed are significant?

I'm only using the HDMI output, not the analog section. The HDMI output got excellent reviews. I'm not using analog out, so who cares if it's bad. If you need the analog section, then maybe look elsewhere.

The panny's not got USB input, but I didn't want that.

At this price point, you're not going to get an all-around "excellent" player. Although the pio 410 is pretty close. It was on my short list, but my favoritism to Matsushita mpeg decoder won out.

My bottomline is I won't own a player that doesn't pass proper levels to the display. In the sub-$100 range, only the panasonic S54 and the pioneer, with tweaking and maybe a firmware update (the 410 thread participants haven't confirmed the factory firmware allows adjustments to get BTB or WTW), pass BTB and WTW.

The next step up is the oppo 980. this will be a more balanced player, is universal and refurbs can be had from oppo for sub $140.

Hope this helps clarify what I was thinking when making my decision
jeff

yeah, USB is by no means a breaking point feature for me. it could be nice, but I don't see myself using it regularly

well, like I said I was originally looking at the Philips DVP5960 but have had a hard time finding it, then saw the Philips DVP5990 but wasn't sure how it compared. the Panasonic DV-S54 seems pretty decent based on the S52 review, and I can get it for a fairly good price. I may just go w/ the panny

arg, if cnet only reviewed DVD players more often...or updated their top picks every 6 months, lol

the Philips is a mediatek based player. it'll have fast layer changes, but will clip BTB and
WTW. The build quality of the philips has been spotty, according to first hand reports.

jeff

Tosh XDE500 is also under $100 and can appear very good to Joe-6-pack (they just love oversaturated, bright, over-sharpened, processed image). I really doubt J6p would know or care about BTB or WTW. Tosh XDE500 is Zoran based with average layer changes, flag-based chipset with boosted contrast, sharpness, and colors. Its build quality is also suspect with power supply being the weak point (some have high pitch sound with player on standby).

Anyone had any luck with any of the Samsungs?

The DVD-1080P8, the DVD-VR375 or the DVD-V9800? If you're looking just to upconvert SD DVDs, I'm still not convinced that spending the extra cash for a Blue-Ray that also does upconversion is a "safe bet", for the money.

Anyone had any luck with any of the Samsungs?

The DVD-1080P8, the DVD-VR375 or the DVD-V9800? If you're looking just to upconvert SD DVDs, I'm still not convinced that spending the extra cash for a Blue-Ray that also does upconversion is a "safe bet", for the money.

I recall many complaints about the 1080p8; try these threads: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=11834219

I'm not familiar with the other models. Try "search" to see if they've been mentioned.

-Bill

I'm only using the HDMI output, not the analog section. The HDMI output got excellent reviews. I'm not using analog out, so who cares if it's bad. If you need the analog section, then maybe look elsewhere.

The panny's not got USB input, but I didn't want that.

At this price point, you're not going to get an all-around "excellent" player. Although the pio 410 is pretty close. It was on my short list, but my favoritism to Matsushita mpeg decoder won out.

My bottomline is I won't own a player that doesn't pass proper levels to the display. In the sub-$100 range, only the panasonic S54 and the pioneer, with tweaking and maybe a firmware update (the 410 thread participants haven't confirmed the factory firmware allows adjustments to get BTB or WTW), pass BTB and WTW.

The next step up is the oppo 980. this will be a more balanced player, is universal and refurbs can be had from oppo for sub $140.

Hope this helps clarify what I was thinking when making my decision
jeff

The Pioneer DV-410V allows BTB/WTW only with a modded firmware?

The Pioneer DV-410V allows BTB/WTW only with a modded firmware?

I know this is way late but that was my experience with the 410 - it clipped and I didn't try the modification. I think Greeno is on the money about the Panny -- it's a suberb standard player. I have a BD player but prefer a separate one for SD through another HDMI port so I can tweak it differently, and when output at 1080i -- letting the Pioneer Kuro do the rest -- in my opinion the picture is appreciably better that the 410, the Sony 700, and the Marantz 4001 models I tried (never tried the Oppo, though). Plus, there's a lot to tweak in the player itself -- things that actually made a visual difference. Panasonic is kind of a funny company: their stuff seems sort of cheaply made sometimes and often doesn't look all that aesthetically pleasing, necessarily, but the engineering beind their products -- which is all that really matters, I guess -- is often absolutely solid.

Try Denon DVD-1940CI universal disc player. Online price $73. Good build quality and decent audio video performance.