The only projector "story" that I've followed at all has been the Infocus 4805, since that's what I ended up buying a few years back.

Haven't had the light tunnel issue, but what really disappointed me was finding out, after my lamp fan caused my bulb to fail (so it seems), that the fan they used in this critical application didn't even have bearings. Now maybe the fan power supply failed first, since I did end up having to tie into the smaller fan's power. But when I got to the fan, it was tilted on its axis so that it hit the housing every revolution.

I figure that had to be a $.50 fan.

So... are all PJs equally tempermental in their own way when it comes down to it, or are there some clearly better made makes out there? I believe I'd trade a little performance for better longevity on my next PJ.

I know that a friend of mine has had his Epson HC 720 since release date with no issues. A little over 1500 hrs on the bulb. No problems with polarizers or anything like that. From what i understand it gets about 9 hours of constant usage on Sundays. The occassional usage on Mondays...and then maybe a movie during the week.

The only projector "story" that I've followed at all has been the Infocus 4805, since that's what I ended up buying a few years back.

Haven't had the light tunnel issue, but what really disappointed me was finding out, after my lamp fan caused my bulb to fail (so it seems), that the fan they used in this critical application didn't even have bearings. Now maybe the fan power supply failed first, since I did end up having to tie into the smaller fan's power. But when I got to the fan, it was tilted on its axis so that it hit the housing every revolution.

I figure that had to be a $.50 fan.

So... are all PJs equally tempermental in their own way when it comes down to it, or are there some clearly better made makes out there? I believe I'd trade a little performance for better longevity on my next PJ.

If that is the case then you might want to look at some of the older high end 720p projectors. Many of them are built like tanks. Currently the best deal that I know of for a high end built like a tank projector is the Marantz VP8600. You can find it for less than $800.

The only projector "story" that I've followed at all has been the Infocus 4805, since that's what I ended up buying a few years back.

Haven't had the light tunnel issue, but what really disappointed me was finding out, after my lamp fan caused my bulb to fail (so it seems), that the fan they used in this critical application didn't even have bearings. Now maybe the fan power supply failed first, since I did end up having to tie into the smaller fan's power. But when I got to the fan, it was tilted on its axis so that it hit the housing every revolution.

I figure that had to be a $.50 fan.

So... are all PJs equally tempermental in their own way when it comes down to it, or are there some clearly better made makes out there? I believe I'd trade a little performance for better longevity on my next PJ.

I think you will have to spend some serious money to buy into a line of equipment that is made from the ground up with quality components these days. For every model in this price bracket, you are going to have a nominal but not insignificant failure rate and possibly a bad lot or two as well.

Single chip DLP systems will be inherently more reliable because of the much simpler light path and the lack of polarizing filters and transmissive panels that are damaged by heat and UV.

I would be more interested in the service policy of the manufacturer and whether they sell parts or require you to send the unit back to them for service. Some brands, like Infocus or BenQ, require you to send the unit back for any service beyond replacing a lamp and will not sell parts to independent servicers nor consumers.

Single chip DLP systems will be inherently more reliable because of the much simpler light path and the lack of polarizing filters and transmissive panels that are damaged by heat and UV.

I would be more interested in the service policy of the manufacturer and whether they sell parts or require you to send the unit back to them for service. Some brands, like Infocus or BenQ, require you to send the unit back for any service beyond replacing a lamp and will not sell parts to independent servicers nor consumers.

No PJ manufacturer that I am aware of will send you parts unless you are a certified technician registered with their service department.

You can get parts for many through distributors. Sanyo, Toshiba, Sharp, Panasonic for instance. Others will sell you parts if you are a qualified tech or convince them that you have a clue. I have purchased parts for Runco and DWIN was willing to sell parts before they went under. It depends on the vendor.

The two that I mentioned in the post above just happen to be the most arrogant that I have run across on the matter, but you are partly correct that many will not sell most parts. Optoma will sell some parts but not others. Many who do sell parts will only sell complete assemblies, not discrete parts for light engines. The best idea, IMO, is to ask specifically about the model that you are considering before you buy. If people would at least make these inquiries and let the manufacturers know that we expect service parts to be available, we might begin to quell this trend toward disposability in electronics.

You can get parts for many through distributors. Sanyo, Toshiba, Sharp, Panasonic for instance. Others will sell you parts if you are a qualified tech or convince them that you have a clue. I have purchased parts for Runco and DWIN was willing to sell parts before they went under. It depends on the vendor.


... If people would at least make these inquiries and let the manufacturers know that we expect service parts to be available, we might begin to quell this trend toward disposability in electronics.

Right, you have to go through a third party.

Installers / Distributors / Technicians are the ones who need to put that pressure on the manufacturer since they are the ones who will be doing nearly all that kind of work. If parts are not available readily to qualified people, those PJs don't get sold and installed.

Most installers and dealers do not provide any significant service capability these days. They just ship the unit back to the manufacturer or sell a new one. After nearly three decades of dealing with service for many manufacturers, I have learned that it is rare for them to pay much attention to dealers and servicers, but they are far more likely to listen to consumers. The problem is that consumers these days are perfectly happy to lay down the money and not bother with the possibility of service, then just replace a product when it breaks.

The problem is that consumers these days are perfectly happy to lay down the money and not bother with the possibility of service, then just replace a product when it breaks.

That's because the average consumer today is incapable of programming a vcr/dvr much less diagnose and repair their electronics and lack even a basic understanding of how anything in their home works. It might as well be magic as far as they are concerned.

We are entering the noisiest dark ages ever imagined.

Most installers and dealers do not provide any significant service capability these days. They just ship the unit back to the manufacturer or sell a new one. After nearly three decades of dealing with service for many manufacturers, I have learned that it is rare for them to pay much attention to dealers and servicers, but they are far more likely to listen to consumers. The problem is that consumers these days are perfectly happy to lay down the money and not bother with the possibility of service, then just replace a product when it breaks.

Not happy about it, but due to what they charge for repairs it is often times cheaper to junk the old and buy new.

The manufacturers that require that you send the unit in price repairs to discourage repair at all. The point is that there are many problems that could be repaired in the field by qualified techs at far lower prices but we cannot get the information (such as service manuals and schematics) nor parts to do so. I have had to scrap many sets, or even refuse them for repair because of the lack of parts and support. Many problems CAN be economically repaired if the support is there. Too many vendors these days simply will not provide it. When consumers complain enough, they eventually will. It happened with Gateway and Vizio, who initially would provide no parts nor any support at all. Now there are some things that you can get for some of their products. In the case of Gateway it took class action lawsuits, but the point is moot because they are not really in the AV business any more.

The manufacturers that require that you send the unit in price repairs to discourage repair at all. The point is that there are many problems that could be repaired in the field by qualified techs at far lower prices but we cannot get the information (such as service manuals and schematics) nor parts to do so. I have had to scrap many sets, or even refuse them for repair because of the lack of parts and support. Many problems CAN be economically repaired if the support is there. Too many vendors these days simply will not provide it. When consumers complain enough, they eventually will. It happened with Gateway and Vizio, who initially would provide no parts nor any support at all. Now there are some things that you can get for some of their products. In the case of Gateway it took class action lawsuits, but the point is moot because they are not really in the AV business any more.

I don't see why consumers would complain - they just want their equipment to work. Now, if after one or two years it quits and the only solution is to replace with NEW better equipment or complain until repair parts are readily available to repair their old equipment, I just don't see anyone complaining.

Some of us see a problem with needing to replace equipment that is only a couple of years old because parts and service literature is not available to repair it economically. The fact that you don't see a problem, and that most people don't is the reason that manufacturers get away with it and we have millions of tons of electronics going to landfills as waste. It is also a contributing factor in the demise of the independent servicer, which makes the cost of repairs higher and the ability to get things fixed at all less likely.

I didn't say I don't see a problem.

I repair all of my own equipment and if you looked in my garage you would know I haven't thrown much away in 30 years. I know where all the recyclers are and anything electronic I can't fix or don't give away or it won't work i take to them.

I would love to be able to order any part I want on any device I own.

I SAID the vast majority of braindead consumers couldn't care less and would rather dump what they have if they can get a newer model instead of repairing the old one. Costco knows this all too well. Poll for as long as you want how many know what the Eastern Garbage Patch is and you will get blank stares for 99.999% of people.

I think that most people never think about it, and don't realize that if a manufacturer gets repeated complaints and thinks that the bottom line on sales might suffer, their policies could change pretty quickly.

Part of the problem is that there is no strong organization in the service business (NESDA is really just a status quo good ole boy's club that provides no vision and little leadership) so servicers are pretty much irrrelevant to the manufacturers. Dealers are no better because so few of them deal with service at all, beyond what they take back in the first 30 days or so.

I think that most people never think about it, and don't realize that if a manufacturer gets repeated complaints and thinks that the bottom line on sales might suffer, their policies could change pretty quickly.

Part of the problem is that there is no strong organization in the service business (NESDA is really just a status quo good ole boy's club that provides no vision and little leadership) so servicers are pretty much irrrelevant to the manufacturers. Dealers are no better because so few of them deal with service at all, beyond what they take back in the first 30 days or so.

Makes sense...

Thanks for advocating - we need to do something.