I've spent a good number of hours trying to sort through the available products to fulfill my needs, but I still don't feel like I have a clear idea of which products I should choose. I'd really appreciate anyone's help who is very familiar with the products available for OTA tv reception.

First, I need an antenna. AntennaWeb recommends a "Violet UHF". I plan to mount this antenna in an attic area of my house, so it will be indoors, but I can point it in any direction and it can be big. I was contemplating the Terk TV38 (http://www.amazon.com/Terk-Technology-TV38-Outdoor-Antenna/dp/B0000B008U). I will be connecting two receivers to this antenna, but I don't know if that makes any difference.

Second, I need an OTA receiver, preferably with DVR functionality, to be connected to a 720P projector with a 100" screen. I need it to have HDMI output and be of good picture quality. I don't want to pay a monthly fee. The only product I've heard of that fits this description is the DTVPAL DVR, but I don't know of any reviews of this product and it's obviously limited in it's availability at this time. Any other suggestions or should I just keep pursuing the DTVPAL DVR?

Third, I need an OTA receiver with no DVR to be connected to a 720P Samsung rear-projection DLP. I would prefer HDMI output, but I suppose component would do. I would like it to be a quality product, but I also don't feel like I need the "best of the best". I have no idea what to buy in this instance.

Last, a question. Can I connect both of these receivers to the same antenna simultaneously without issue? My electrical engineering background says "yes", but I'd love some assurance. Many, many thanks for your help.

Before choosing an antenna, you should find the answers to two very important questions:

1. Will you have any stations actually broadcasting on VHF (channels 2-13) after the transition?

2. If so, will any of them be using channels 2-6 (the low VHF band)?

The antennaweb.org list shows the actual channels in the far right column, if I remember correctly.

If the answer to #1 is "No", then you should choose a UHF-only antenna. If the answer to #1 is "Yes" and the answer to #2 is "No", then you should choose either a combination VHF/UHF antenna that is designed to receive only channels 7-13 (high VHF band) plus UHF; or a pair of separate UHF and high-VHF antennas.

The reason for these choices is that good VHF antennas have to be big, and especially so if they need to cover the low VHF band. Antennas that need to cover only the high VHF channels are smaller and lighter. And of course if you don't need VHF at all, you can save even more size and weight.

The Terk that you're looking at covers the entire VHF band, and you should consider it and similar antennas only if you really need low-VHF coverage. If you don't need low-VHF, you're better off using the extra size and weight that would go into low-VHF capability for improved high-VHF and UHF reception.

Station antennas from my house, over relatively flat terrain, are about 55 miles distant.

What I did was build the basic "coat hanger flattie, DB4 clone" to sniff out what was available. It showed that there was a reasonable selection of local digital channels that with my coupon box could be received.

It was easy to make good choices from there.

....


Third, I need an OTA receiver with no DVR to be connected to a 720P Samsung rear-projection DLP. I would prefer HDMI output, but I suppose component would do. I would like it to be a quality product, but I also don't feel like I need the "best of the best". I have no idea what to buy in this instance.

....

I have a LG3510 which has DVI out and component out. Unfortunately it's no longer being made, so you'd have to look for a used unit. It's got a few quirky issues, but it's been a good tuner. The built-in DVD drives in these units tends to die an early death but you probably have another DVD player anyway.

HD tuners with HDMI or DVI out are fairly rare these days. It seems like the only thing out there right now are the cheap SD convertor boxes.

D'oh! When I posted before, I didn't notice that you're in the Columbia SC area. I'm familiar with those stations. You'll have two high-VHF stations: WIS-10 on channel 10 (their digital channel is 41 right now) and WOLO-25 on channel 8. You don't need an antenna with low-VHF capability, unless maybe you're somewhere out towards Augusta GA and want to pick up the Georgia PBS station that serves Augusta (WCES-20 which will be on channel 6). As far as I can tell, there won't be any low-VHF stations anywhere in South Carolina after the the analogs shut down.

So I strongly recommend that you look for either a combination UHF + high VHF antenna, for example the Winegard HD7697P (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD7697P) or maybe one of its smaller siblings, or else separate UHF and high-VHF antennas. I use the Winegard YA-1713 for high VHF and the Terrestrial Digital 91XG for UHF, and can receive five of the seven Columbia stations reliably from about 70 miles. (WKTC-63 on ch 39 is knocked out by a station in Charlotte on the same channel, and WZRB-47 doesn't have a digital channel on the air yet.)

You must be quite a ways out of Columbia if you're in Antennaweb's purple zone, or else down in a valley. Try http://www.tvfool.com/ which gives more detailed information (best if you tell it your exact location), and post the results here as an attachment.

jtbell:

Thanks for the suggestion on the antenna. It looks like a winner to me. Below is my tvfool output:

http://www.whatisrazar.com/temp/Radar-Digital.png


I really only wish to pick up the main Columbia channels (technically I live in Lexington now). Any suggestion for the tuners I mentioned?

Second, I need an OTA receiver, preferably with DVR functionality, to be connected to a 720P projector with a 100" screen. I need it to have HDMI output and be of good picture quality. I don't want to pay a monthly fee. The only product I've heard of that fits this description is the DTVPAL DVR, but I don't know of any reviews of this product and it's obviously limited in it's availability at this time. Any other suggestions or should I just keep pursuing the DTVPAL DVR?

The only other non-subscription DVRs for OTA use that I know about are the Sony DHG-HDD250 and 500, and the LG LST-3410A (I hope I got that number right). Both have been discontinued for about three years now. I have two of the Sonys. They use the free TV Guide On Screen system, which is making a analog-to-digital transition for delivering the guide data. In SC, TVGOS is delivered via SC ETV's analog stations (I use WNTV in Greenville for this); the digital version will use CBS stations, and in fact it appears that WLTX in Columbia is already doing it, although I haven't tried to lock one of my Sonys onto it for TVGOS (at the moment the Sonys default to analog TVGOS if there are any analog "host channels" available, and it takes some work to switch to a digital host channel). So you might consider looking for one of the Sonys on eBay or other second-hand sources.

I don't know whether the LG DVR will use digital TVGOS, or even if it uses TVGOS at all. There are long threads about both the Sonys and the LG in the HDTV Recorders forum here.

Ah, you posted your tvfool plot while I was typing my preceding post. It definitely looks like you're "down in a hole". The "2edge" in the "Path" column indicates that the signal has to diffract around two successive hills or ridge-tops. Your signal strengths are comparable to what I get from some of the Charlotte stations at about 72 miles.

My understanding is that attic installations have variable results depending on roof material and signal reflections (multipath), so I'd go with the biggest one of that family of ch 7-69 Winegards that you can fit into your attic and/or your pocketbook, just to be safe.

Or you could go to separate antennas like I use. Depending on your attic layout, they might be easier to work with. The Antennas Direct 91XG and Winegard YA-1713 are each about 100" long (against 131" for the Winegard 7697P), and the YA-1713 is about 35-36" wide (against 53" for the 7697P). Here's a picture of them, up on my roof. You could put them side by side on separate stands if you have enough floor space to separate them by 3 to 5 feet.

Almost all brand new OTA Tuners boxes have now got Generation 6 ATSC chipsets, which outperform all others. There are a lot of "new" HDTVs out there that still have Generation 5 chipsets, which are very good but not the best you can get. My understanding is that all main brand CECB boxes have Generation 6 chipsets.

If you are tempted to buy a used OTA Tuner it is important to try to find out which chipset it has. I personally would not own anything older than Generation 5 ever again due to performance limitations of 1 through 4.

If a seller cannot tell you which generation of ATSC chipset, don't buy it. ;)

Well, maybe I'll ask this another way. Are there ANY currently available 6th Generation ATSC stand-alone tuners available that will output HDMI HDTV? Is there a list anywhere?

I implemented the Winegard HD7697P in my garage attic, but I am only able to receive channels 8, 17, and 41 (real channels, see the posted tvfool.com graph). The signal for these seems perfectly fine, but I'd like to get my other local channels as well. If I added a Channel Master 7777 preamp and a Channel Master 3043 amplifier would this probably allow me to receive my other local channels?

Thanks!

If adding amplification, don't add two amps.
I would add the CM 7777 preamp only.

http://www.warrenelectronics.com/antennas/preampsetup.jpg

arxaw:

Using a preamp to feed an amplifier is a bad idea in this case? Why?

mOtion, the best way to add 13 db to your system is to move the antenna outside and mount it higher than the roof ridge line. You purchased a great antenna but need to move it where it can perform well for you.

IDRick:

Agreed, but unfortunately this is not an acceptable solution for my project.

arxaw:

Using a preamp to feed an amplifier is a bad idea in this case? Why?Your signal will likely overload, resulting in decreased signal strength or a signal too noisy and distorted to even be decoded.

A good antenna and a low noise preamp should be all you need for only two or three splits. Assuming you have some signal to work with. Weak reception areas rarely have reliable reception with an attic install, where up to ½ the signal may be attenuated before it ever reaches the antenna elements.

I am only able to receive channels 8, 17, and 41

Can you get anything at all for the others (32, 39, 48), even if it's just a blocky picture that freezes up?

I don't have any personal experience with attic setups, but I've often read about people having to experiment with various positions and orientations until they find a "sweet spot." Signals reflecting off the inside of the roof, beams, etc. can cause complicated interference patterns.

If you're just below threshold for reliable reception on the missing channels, a good low-noise pre-amp like the 7777 might help. The main advantage it gives you is from increasing the overall signal-to-noise ratio of your system by a few dB (nowhere near as much as the gain of the amp, because the amp itself produces noise). Definitely don't combine the pre-amp with an inline amp, because it's likely to make the signal too strong for your tuner, and an inline amp is likely to contribute a significant amount of noise to the signal, so it wouldn't improve the S/N ratio.

mOtion, the best way to add 13 db to your system is to move the antenna outside and mount it higher than the roof ridge line. You purchased a great antenna but need to move it where it can perform well for you.Agree 100%!! That antenna can't pick up something that isn't there. If you do get the other desired locals to come in, I doubt they would be strong enough to be reliable with an attic install.

I am located in Lexington, a little less than 25 miles out of COlumbia. I just bought a new amplified omni-directional VHF/UHF antenna for my LCD. I can pick up every station in Columbia except ABC WOLO 25. Any particular reason for this? Is it because it is on the UHF band and all the others on the VHF? From everything I've read I should be able to get WOLO too... heck I even get some Augusta stations for crying out loud. What's up with WOLO? Any info anyone can pass along would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Is it because it is on the UHF band and all the others on the VHF?

Actually you have it backwards. WOLO is on VHF channel 8, although it says "25.1" on your tuner. All the other Columbia stations are on UHF now, but when WIS shuts down its analog signal, it will move its digital signal to channel 10.

Is your antenna an indoor model? I suspect it is because most outdoor antennas don't have built-in amplification. In that case, I would be surprised if it can pick up VHF signals as well as it can pick up UHF, unless the VHF part has a long rabbit-ears type of design. If it doesn't, then you might try a simple pair of extendable rabbit ears. If that doesn't work, you'll probably need to look into an outdoor antenna.

So we have a better idea of exactly what you're up against, enter your address into tvfool.com, save the results on your computer, and attach them to a post here. (Like the other guy from Lexington did above.)

Thanks for responding with the great info. I actually found a solution to my problem. First off, my antenna is indeed an indoor with extendable rabbit ears. I simply moved my antenna to another part of the house (actually under my bed leaning against the wall so you cannot see it or the extended rabbit ears). Then I pointed them in the direction I needed to. I had to extend the cable by connecting another RG6 cable via barrel connector to reach my LCD in the other room. And it worked. I am now picking up every Columbia station I wanted to. Now all I have to do is run this cable under the house from my living room to the bedroom and I will have pulled it off! Success! Can you tell how proud I am? lol.

Will I need to rescan for channels again after the June transition date? I understand some channels will be changing. Just wondering if I will need to rescan totally or just simply reset my favorites once the changes have taken place. Thanks again.

With some tuners, you can enter the physical channel number and if the tuner finds something on that channel, it picks up the virtual channel number and stores it so you can use the virtual channel number after that.

For example, my "channel 25" is actually on channel 8. If the tuner doesn't already know about that channel, I can enter 8, it picks up the "25", and I can thereafter tune it as channel 25. But this works only if I don't already have a virtual channel 8; if I already have a virtual channel 8, the tuner simply goes to that channel.

With some tuners, you can do an "update scan" which picks up any new channels.

With still others, you always have to do a full scan.