The new MOXI 500GB HD-DVR is now on sale for $799 at amazon.com today. Finally you can own your own Moxi with it's award winning interface (now in HD widescreen). It looks awesome, and sounds tempting, but $799 is a bit much.

Amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Digeo-Interactive-LLC-MR-1500T3-Moxi/dp/B001GQ8MT8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229036209&sr=8-7)


Moxi HD-DVR Page (http://moxi.com/moxi/discover_moxi_hd.jsp)

Discuss please. Anyone going to give this a shot? Looks like it could give Tivo a run for it's money.

Does it work with SDV via a tuning resolver. That would be nice since there are a bunch of SDV areas.

Moxi box is finally here!!! Montly fees for cable rentals(boxes/remotes), tivo rental/subsctiptions fees, etc. can finally be thing of the past.

Hal-la-luya! Hal-la-luya! Hal-la-luya!

It only took the FCC 10 years. That's pretty good for them.

It's shortcomings for me include, but are not limited to:
Needs more than 2 terabytes storage expansion - ability to offload copy freely content to computer - ability to offload encrypted recordings to a personal replacement/additional Moxi/Moxi-like DVR box - multiply picture in picture feature - abiltiy to pause/restart recordings(ie edit out commecials on manaul recordings) - variable length commericial skip - multiple rewind/forward speed settings - an OTA tuner - tru2way cablecard - remove the fine print saying ..."future services and features may be subject to additional fees". Some optional services ok, of course, but a solid EPG should be lifetime at this price.

This is a good start though, and if I could, I'd surely support this product.

There are also plans for a tru2way version.

This product also doesn't support OTA or Satellite. This will probably be a deal breaker for many people who rely on OTA.

This will probably be a deal breaker for many people who rely on OTA.Agreed.

That seems like a pretty significant oversight to me. They must be trying to sell this box to cable companies, because I can't see any other justification for the absence of OTA support.

Doesn't look like it can share shows between multiple units. :(

Does anyone have a Moxi HD yet?

Looks like it could give Tivo a run for it's
money.

Why?

You can get a HD Tivo with a Lifetime subscription for less than the Moxi - and a much bigger fan base.

If there was an IEEE 1394 port as required on cableboxes, it would have picked up a few more buyers - but not enough for critical mass.

No reason for this device at this time.

As of right now they haven't officially announced this product as being released. It sounds like it's supposed to happen during CES since they have a press conference scheduled for Thursday at noon.

If you check the CES webpage it actually says they are announcing TWO products. Maybe this announcement will include some explanation as to how that price is justified as well.

Doesn't look like it can share shows between multiple units. :(

The retail Moxi is going to have a Moxi Mate released for multi room viewing this year. They have the mate on display at CES right now.

The retail Moxi is going to have a Moxi Mate released for multi room viewing this year. They have the mate on display at CES right now.

Any one at CES want to wander over and look?

Was there a timeframe or indication of pricing for the Moxi Mate? That's a deal maker as I already have distributed sharing in place.

The retail Moxi is going to have a Moxi Mate released for multi room viewing this year. They have the mate on display at CES right now.

But the Moxi Mate doesn't support HD, right?

Anyone out there taken the plunge?

At this price in this economy? Don't see any takers here.

Any one at CES want to wander over and look?

Was there a timeframe or indication of pricing for the Moxi Mate? That's a deal maker as I already have distributed sharing in place.

They didn't have a booth at CES, but I did hit their press conference and had a private briefing. They also had a small presence in the Monster booth, who has plans to release a co-branded product this summer, which I also hit. Info and a dozen photos here:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2009-01/digeo-takes-on-tivo-with-moxi/

They haven't provided timing info on the Moxi Mate extender (or support for the SDV tuner adapter).

I've been pushing to get my hands on a unit since December, but their PR agency doesn't seem too motivated to get Digeo coverage. Though I hear review units have started trickling out now... 3 months after initial availability. Regardless, I agree with slowbiscuit - $800 in this climate is a bitter pill.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/moxi-hd5-420x315.jpg

Sorry for resurrecting a dead thread. Was doing some research tonight and saw this question with not much followup, so I wanted to chime in.

I notice they redid their web site.

I am still very surprised at their decision to pass on ATSC support. Most tuners and demodulators support both ATSC and QAM, so you'd think they'd add that capability to the software.

II am still very surprised at their decision to pass on ATSC support. Most tuners and demodulators support both ATSC and QAM, so you'd think they'd add that capability to the software.

Yeah, I don't get that move either. In their minds, they seem to think this simplifies the messaging - it's a 'premium cable DVR'. But why drop off ATSC functionality if it costs nothing or next to nothing. Ben Drawbaugh (Engadget/HD) was with me at the press conference asking them the same thing.

Though the biggest sticking point is still cost. Especially since we don't know how well this company is doing. An $800 DVR without guide data one day perhaps isn't very useful. That's one of the things I kinda like about the OTA DISH DTVPal DVR. It's rough around the edges (records by time slot, limited guide, ugly), but you can function without EVER talking to a mothership.

Well, I just noticed the Moxi Challenge which states you can put the Moxi HD DVR to work for 30 days. If you don't agree it's the best HD DVR on the market, send it back , no questions asked. Sounds like a decent offer, but not having an ATSC is a deal breaker for me.

Seems pretty sad that no one on an A/V enthusiast forum like this will admit to taking a chance on this unit. And that there are no reviews of shipping units out there comparing it to the Tivo HD (that I've seen).

Does not bode well for Digeo at this point, but I guess it's still early.

Seems pretty sad that no one on an A/V enthusiast forum like this will admit to taking a chance on this unit. And that there are no reviews of shipping units out there comparing it to the Tivo HD (that I've seen).

Does not bode well for Digeo at this point, but I guess it's still early.I agree...it does not bode well for Diego.

Well, I just now found out about this. I have had two Moxi boxes in the past and I liked them way more than the box TW uses now.

The problem was, both units started overheating and died.

I've emailed Moxi for some info about what they've done about this problem. I read somewhere on the web that the new units have an audible fan.

I'd also be curious as to how well it streams 1080p content from a PC. I was trying to do that through my ps3 but didn't get it working right.

Dave

I've been pushing to get my hands on a unit since December, but their PR agency doesn't seem too motivated to get Digeo coverage.

FYI My review unit just arrived. Unfortunately, I've got a pretty packed weekend and then 8 days on the road for work. But here's 15 pics to get you started while the questions pile up. :)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2009-04/moxi-hd-dvr-in-the-flesh/

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/moxi-hd-dvr9-420x315.jpg

I'm very interested in this box, especially after they announced DLNA support. I've got several things that are holding me back.

1)Will the guide go away if Moxi does? Moxi should answer this. In principle they could cut a deal with the guide provider to maintain it given their business model.

2) Is the hard drive user replaceable in case of Moxi not being around. I.e. if my hard disk dies in 5 years, will I be able to get it fixed if Moxi goes under in two?

If the answer is:
1) No, the provider of the guide provides the service and will honor the lifetime and
2) Yes, you just have to use the internal formatting routine on sub-menu 20 or so, but it will kill your warranty,then I would be OK.
3) Last step would be to see if the local FIOS supprots multistream cards (M-cards), if not, I'm screwed, otherwise I'll be ready to buy one.

1)Will the guide go away if Moxi does? Moxi should answer this. In principle they could cut a deal with the guide provider to maintain it given their business model.Moxi uses Tribune guide data. They license the Tribune guide data (just like TiVo) and deliver it to each box using their own Internet servers (just like TiVo).

With TiVo, many customers are still on monthly or yearly subscription plans, so there's a strong incentive for another company to take over their customer list, should they ever go out of business. This is what happened when ReplayTV closed shop; another company took over the monthly, yearly, and lifetime subscribers.

If Moxi ever goes out of business, some company could purchase the customer base and offer monthly or yearly service, but don't expect it to be free. A commercial license for guide data costs about $20/yr (wholesale) per DVR, but that does not include the support infrastructure (servers, etc) to deliver the data in a format the DVR can accept.

2) Is the hard drive user replaceable in case of Moxi not being around. I.e. if my hard disk dies in 5 years, will I be able to get it fixed if Moxi goes under in two?It may not be possible now, but I suspect it will be before long, as people experiment with drive upgrades.

On a whim I ordered this unit today and expect it tomorrow.

I'll post again when I've had a chance to play with it.

Moxi uses Tribune guide data. They license the Tribune guide data (just like TiVo) and deliver it to each box using their own Internet servers (just like TiVo).

I expect Digeo will make their next model Tru2way compatible. As I understand it, one feature of Tru2way is that the user can switch between the box vendor's interface and the cable company's interface. If Digeo goes out of business and the cable guide becomes unavailable, a Tru2way user could then select the cable company's interface, which presumably would include the cable company's guide data. One would give up the polished interface, but at least the box would still be usable.

I expect Digeo will make their next model Tru2way compatible.

I think it'll be a long while before you see a *retail* tru2way DVR.

I expect Digeo will make their next model Tru2way compatible. As I understand it, one feature of Tru2way is that the user can switch between the box vendor's interface and the cable company's interface. If Digeo goes out of business and the cable guide becomes unavailable, a Tru2way user could then select the cable company's interface, which presumably would include the cable company's guide data. One would give up the polished interface, but at least the box would still be usable.Such a capability is not expected on any box for some time. All true2way products expected in the next 12-18 months will only support the cable company's OCAP STB/DVR software.

Just received my Moxi. I'm on FIOS and have not yet received the M-card. I should have it some time next week.

Thus far I've set up the unit for just the broadcast HD channels.

I think this is flat out the best looking guide, from both a functional and aesthetic standpoint, I've yet seen. BTW, I've seen some people say the unit doesn't have dual buffers...it does...or at least in the way it's currently configured in my setup.

Also, kudos to Moxi tech support. You actually get knowledgeable, friendly people who pick up the phone quickly.

So, so far so good, but the cc will be the true test. :)

Thanks Ken. Really looking forward to your and Daves reviews.

The software/guide I had with my previous Moxies was so much better than what we have now. I really dislike the ads all through the listings. And there are many other things, like no way to accurately jump past commercials, and the fact that the search function finds a show on an SD channell and then you have to physically scan the listings to find if and when it's broadcast in HD. This is a major PITA often you end up with a series recording set to the SD version with no way to change it, you have to delete it and find the listing manually to reset. If the show airs several days hence, it takes forever to scroll through all the listings.

Dave

Just received my Moxi. I'm on FIOS and have not yet received the M-card. I should have it some time next week.

Thus far I've set up the unit for just the broadcast HD channels.

I think this is flat out the best looking guide, from both a functional and aesthetic standpoint, I've yet seen. BTW, I've seen some people say the unit doesn't have dual buffers...it does...or at least in the way it's currently configured in my setup.

Also, kudos to Moxi tech support. You actually get knowledgeable, friendly people who pick up the phone quickly.

So, so far so good, but the cc will be the true test. :)
And I was told by chat that FIOS doesn't support MCARDS.
Check to see if there is a menu that says "format hard disk".
Is anyone from Moxi in this thread?

got my moxi hd dvr about a week ago. been using a tivo s3 for years and wanted to try something else. comments so far: love the ui. has some nice usability features. picture in guide, mini guide on bottom of screen, conflict resolution (something i can't believe tivo still does not have) and more. not thrilled with the remote control layout. one problem i am having is that my abc hd channel will not come through. on my 2nd m-card and same problem. waiting on response from moxi support. anyone have any ideas? i've obviously rebooted many times and removed and reinstalled the mcard a few times. still nothing. also happy to answer any questions about the box you might have although i'm not that technical.

And I was told by chat that FIOS doesn't support MCARDS.
Check to see if there is a menu that says "format hard disk".
Is anyone from Moxi in this thread?Verizon FiOS now has M-CARDs in the the overwhelming majority of service areas.

one problem i am having is that my abc hd channel will not come through.You might need to add an attenuator. If the signal is too strong, the Moxi won't be able to tune some channels.

got my moxi hd dvr about a week ago. been using a tivo s3 for years and wanted to try something else. comments so far: love the ui. has some nice usability features. picture in guide, mini guide on bottom of screen, conflict resolution (something i can't believe tivo still does not have) and more. not thrilled with the remote control layout. one problem i am having is that my abc hd channel will not come through. on my 2nd m-card and same problem. waiting on response from moxi support. anyone have any ideas? i've obviously rebooted many times and removed and reinstalled the mcard a few times. still nothing. also happy to answer any questions about the box you might have although i'm not that technical.

I got mine yesterday but am awaiting Comcast (on Tuesday) to hook it up. I do have a question: how is the fast forward/scan functionality? I only have experience with Comcast's DVR but I've heard that with Tivo when you're fast forwarding to skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.

With TiVo, many customers are still on monthly or yearly subscription plans, so there's a strong incentive for another company to take over their customer list, should they ever go out of business. This is what happened when ReplayTV closed shop; another company took over the monthly, yearly, and lifetime subscribers.

Actually ReplayTV Customer Support wasn't included when DNNA sold ReplayTV:

http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/items/pdf/20071213_Rtv_press_release_final.pdf
...D&M Holdings will remain the operator of the existing service contracts for current subscribers for the foreseeable future while DIRECTV will assume most of the other assets of the brand company...
http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/about/replaytv/

skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.

Can't say for sure about the new box, but my previous Moxies did this and it is a great feature. You scan till you see the show start, press play, and it jumps back just a little and starts at the beginning.

Dave

Just received my Moxi. I'm on FIOS and have not yet received the M-card. I should have it some time next week.

Thus far I've set up the unit for just the broadcast HD channels.

I think this is flat out the best looking guide, from both a functional and aesthetic standpoint, I've yet seen. BTW, I've seen some people say the unit doesn't have dual buffers...it does...or at least in the way it's currently configured in my setup.

Also, kudos to Moxi tech support. You actually get knowledgeable, friendly people who pick up the phone quickly.

So, so far so good, but the cc will be the true test. :)

Moxi has an interesting GUI for sure. It's pretty and different from anything else yet released, defintely a player; the only GUI which integrates its EPG into the Menu! My GUI favorite remains ReplayTV's, both for across-the-room legibility and speedy intuitive navigation. Tripping through Moxi's Menu was bewildering at first until I got familiar with it. I initially confused Settings' Channel List with the EPG list.

Moxi tech support is exceptional, probably because it's in-house and the reps care about their product.

For me QAM channel mapping was a 'true test' as I'm using Moxi without CC's. Moxi's approach to channel mapping is different from TVGOS's, less flexible but much easier to accomplish. Moxi's channel mapping ends up looking like a CC channel map but of course only showing unscrambled channels.

I'm pulling a sly one by using the analog tuning dongle which Moxi provides to access standard-def premium channels from a Comcast STB which Moxi can then record. Used without a CC Moxi incurs no 'Additional Outlet Fee' from Comcast. Moxi does have dual buffers but with the analog tuning dongle can actually record 3 programs simultaneously.

I mapped analog channel 3 to Comcast's VOD channel 1 to provide 4 hour recording time blocs 24-7. Comcast's STB can be programmed to automatically change channels for recording to a VCR, which works perfectly with this scheme. A variant of the scheme would enable Moxi to record standard-def OTA channels from a manually tuned Coupon Converter Box.

I do have a question: how is the fast forward/scan functionality? ...I've heard that with Tivo when you're fast forwarding to skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.

Moxi's FF/REW is remarkably similiar to TiVo's, with perhaps a bit less compensation. Skip is 30 sec. but can be changed to 3, 5, or 15 mins. Replay is 7 secs. The User Guide omits mentioning that back and next enable 15 min. jumps in the buffer or a recording.

I got mine yesterday but am awaiting Comcast (on Tuesday) to hook it up. I do have a question: how is the fast forward/scan functionality? I only have experience with Comcast's DVR but I've heard that with Tivo when you're fast forwarding to skip a commercial and you press PLAY it actually rewinds a bit to take into account human reaction time (I usually end up having to rewind). Would love to hear that Moxi has something like this.

I agree with fallingwater. Very similar to Tivo if you've used that. However, not sure the jump back goes far enough. I'm finding i still need to manually back up a few seconds if i want to catch the very beginning.

An interesting note for those that are anal about their video quality. One of the things that bothered me a bit about the Verizon box (and any others I used from sat & other cable providers), was the upconversion quality from 720p to 1080i.

Since my Pioneer Kuro did a better job with 720p channels, I always attached an OTA antenna to it and watched my 720p OTA channels via the Pioneer tuner.

With the new Moxi, I'm seeing sharpness and overall PQ with 720p that equals that of the onboard Pioneer tuner. This makes my overall viewing easier since I don't feel any need to switch away from the Moxi box when watching 720p. :)

On the nitpicking side, I think Moxi should have provided a 1 minute skip rather than going from 30 seconds to 3 minutes. Another thing I've noticed and reported to tech support, is when switching from one HD channel to another via the channel up & down button, you occasionally get a slightly shrunken picture until the bottom channel banner disappears. Tech support tells me that's always been the case with their boxes, but nonetheless it's being passed on to engineering.

So it does do 30 sec skip? That's good to know. How's the responsiveness of the UI? Menu's have a good flow to them and slide into place right? There's virtually no aesthetics in the Comcast I-Guide DVR, and it looks like Moxi would be a great improvement.

So it does native resolution passthrough? I hate how the Motorola DVR only allows you to select ONE output resolution, forcing all other resolutions to go through extra lossy conversion steps.

Does it do caller ID on TV? The Comcast DVR just came out with that feature. I know it sounds trivial, but we really like it.

I'm highly interested in this box. The $800 price tag is steep, considering a PS3 comes with a blue ray drive and plays high end games. You mean to tell me a $400 PS3 with a blueray drive is half the price of a moxi? That means the tuners / cable card integration and software is all worth more than $400? You can't tell me this Moxi has the same horsepower as a PS3?

I wish they'd come out with an external add on for the PS3, so we could have an all in one game/dlna media center/dvr/blue ray player. There's that DVB-T PlayTV box in Europe that just came out, but no Cable Card US DVR. They could make a killing on that if they tried.

So it does do 30 sec skip? That's good to know. How's the responsiveness of the UI? Menu's have a good flow to them and slide into place right? There's virtually no aesthetics in the Comcast I-Guide DVR, and it looks like Moxi would be a great improvement.

So it does native resolution passthrough? I hate how the Motorola DVR only allows you to select ONE output resolution, forcing all other resolutions to go through extra conversion steps.

I'm highly interested in this box. The $800 price tag is steep, considering a PS3 comes with a blue ray drive and plays high end games. You mean to tell me a $400 PS3 with a blueray drive is half the price of a moxi? That means the tuners / cable card integration and software is all worth more than $400? You can't tell me this Moxi has the same horsepower as a PS3?The most expensive part of the Moxi and TiVo is the software, not the hardware. With the PS3, the bulk of the cost is in the hardware, with the software costs amortized across many millions of units. The substantial cost of competitive DVR software is the primary reason we don't see more choices in the market.

Example: In FY2009, TiVo sold $57.7 million in hardware for $41.4 million, plus it spent another $62 million on [primarily software] R&D and another $44.6 million to provide the guide data and related services. Their cost of the hardware accounted for less than 30% of the overall cost of the product.

Moxi sells even fewer units, so the cost of their software must account for an even higher percentage of the $799 price. Since Moxi includes a lifetime subscription, they've also got to add $120-$200 for the cost of the guide data (Tribune is ~$20/yr wholesale, but that's just for the data, not the infrastructure to deliver it).

The Moxi hardware itself probably costs no more than $200. Compared to the TivoHD, it is a far simpler design with no analog tuners, no A/D converters, no SD encoders, and no separate CableCard IC. For digital cable, simpler is better, because it means less components and drivers to consume limited SoC resources. Of course, Moxi also benefits from having a newer, faster Broadcom SoC. Based on previously released specs, Moxi appears to use a version of the BCM7400.

I setup my Moxi today; I don't have the cable card yet though.

For some reason, it would do 1080p (even though my projector handles it fine for blurays etc). I had to keep it at 1080i.

I am pretty confused by the UI, but I guess I'll need to give it some time.

For some reason, it would do 1080p (even though my projector handles it fine for blurays etc). I had to keep it at 1080i.As with the TiVo, Dish, and DirecTV DVRs, the Broadcom SoC in the Moxi only supports 1080p24, not 1080p60. At the moment, that support isn't really useful for anything, since there are no television channels delivered as native 1080p24 signals.

Isn't the bcm7400 series in the motorola dcx? I know mso's are working on new versions of guides for newer platforms. I need to figure out if I can justify waiting for the rentable cable co solution or if I should jump on this. Now if it does do resolution passthrough and they will allow you to stream content from the PC than great! I wonder if it can stream h.264 or x.264 / xvi d / divx etc, I wouldn't have to plug my laptop in to the tv anymore. Although I like boxee's UI and wealth of online content and social features, I would hope that the moxi guys try to emulate that Internet content and social aspect in some way.

Sent from my iPhone.

I wouldn't bother responding to cypherstream about the Moxi because he's a 'real' DVR wannabe - asks a lot of questions but is too cheap to spring for a non-cable-provided box.

Actually I would spring for a moxi if the features are right. I haven't sprung for a TiVo for their aged, stretched and blurry SD interface. I could justify loosing VOD for a nice HD UI that has a modern flow, but I will not sacrifice VOD for that 8 year old TiVo UI. The TiVo UI never interested me, but the moxi screenshots look great.

Please, who gives a damn about the UI. Do you want a box that does what you want it to do, or not? I don't like the Tivo UI either, but it's a damn sight better than the Moto crap that Comcast foists upon the masses here (and it's not blurry SD btw, it's in 720p but doesn't take advantage of HD sets). OnDemand is junk for the most part, and Tivo has signed an agreement to provide an OnDemand-like facility later this year anyway. And you won't ever get VOD with the Moxi.

Give it up, cypher. You'll ask a lot of questions about the Moxi, but you know you won't pull the trigger.

I setup my Moxi today; I don't have the cable card yet though.

For some reason, it would do 1080p (even though my projector handles it fine for blurays etc). I had to keep it at 1080i.

I am pretty confused by the UI, but I guess I'll need to give it some time.

I hated the Moxi interface when I first got one many years ago. Needless to say it grew on me. What I liked the most was how if you held channel key down it would zip through the channels.

If I'm paying for a box to own, I want to own a first class, first rate DVR, that includes the whole package along with UI.

I can build a PC for $800 that runs circles around the Moto or Tivo hardware. The only caveat is the Cable Card tuners are OEM only.

If by god Dave Zatz or Ben D. say that this box is the Cadillac of DVR's then yes I will buy one, take a picture of it and post.

This Moxi interests me much more than a Tivo ever did, so yes, I am interested.

The most expensive part of the Moxi and TiVo is the software, not the hardware. With the PS3, the bulk of the cost is in the hardware, with the software costs amortized across many millions of units. The substantial cost of competitive DVR software is the primary reason we don't see more choices in the market.

Example: In FY2009, TiVo sold $57.7 million in hardware for $41.4 million, plus it spent another $62 million on [primarily software] R&D and another $44.6 million to provide the guide data and related services. Their cost of the hardware accounted for less than 30% of the overall cost of the product.

Moxi sells even fewer units, so the cost of their software must account for an even higher percentage of the $799 price. Since Moxi includes a lifetime subscription, they've also got to add $120-$200 for the cost of the guide data (Tribune is ~$20/yr wholesale, but that's just for the data, not the infrastructure to deliver it).

The Moxi hardware itself probably costs no more than $200. Compared to the TivoHD, it is a far simpler design with no analog tuners, no A/D converters, no SD encoders, and no separate CableCard IC. For digital cable, simpler is better, because it means less components and drivers to consume limited SoC resources. Of course, Moxi also benefits from having a newer, faster Broadcom SoC. Based on previously released specs, Moxi appears to use a version of the BCM7400.

Doesn't Moxi share software from their cable co. boxes in this new standalone?

The analog dongle provides Moxi's SD encoder and A/D converter, no? The Moxi glitches I've experienced have been from Moxi's interfacing with the dongle. Moxi is apparently using a customized version of the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1950, limited to analog reception only. The full featured version retails at a list price of $150 so Moxi's must be much cheaper.
http://registration.hauppauge.com/webstore/hardware2.asp?product=hvr1950

What do you mean by stating that Moxi has no separate CableCard IC; that it's integrated into the BCM7400 while TiVo's is on a separate chip?

The Moxi glitches I've experienced have been from Moxi's interfacing with the dongle.

I've posted about Moxi on the TCF S3/HDTiVo Moxi thread, including an exchange of emails with Moxi Support, in part regarding the dongle:

If settings of a recording from the analog dongle are changed while the recording is ongoing Moxi consistently freezes and reboots. At first I thought this glitch was going to be a deal-breaker, but as the workaround is not to modify the settings until the recording is over the only thing apparently lost is the ability to extend a recording on the fly. 'Keep until' can be extended after a recording is finished. The problem doesn't exist when recording from the digital tuners.

Hopefully you'll be able to duplicate the problem (it's consistent and repeatable) and make a software revision. It may be a deal-breaker for some and in any case is a significant flaw.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7204205#post7204205

Doesn't Moxi share software from their cable co. boxes in this new standalone? Much of the code is shared between the Moxi 3012 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15577031#post15577031) and standalone Moxi, both of which are Moxi's first Broadcom-based DVRs. Past Moxis were based on PC-like hardware.

The analog dongle provides Moxi's SD encoder and A/D converter, no? The Moxi glitches I've experienced have been from Moxi's interfacing with the dongle. Moxi is apparently using a customized version of the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1950, limited to analog reception only. The full featured version retails at a list price of $150 so Moxi's must be much cheaper.I'm sure Moxi does not pay anywhere near $150 for the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1950. That said, Moxi probably still pays significantly more for the "dongle" than the necessary parts would have cost them if integrated internally. But forgoing integrated analog support undoubtedly saved them a substantial amount of money in design complexity.

What do you mean by stating that Moxi has no separate CableCard IC; that it's integrated into the BCM7400 while TiVo's is on a separate chip?That's my understanding, yes.

At this point there's an excellent chance my Moxi is going back. It appears that FIOS is incredibly incompetent when it comes to cable cards. I had similar frustrations with them when I had an HD-Tivo.

First, many in FIOS have no idea of the difference between S-cards and M-cards. Second, they promised me an M-Card was in the mail...that was a lie. Two people within FIOS confirmed my M-Card had been ordered and was scheduled to arrive this week. I was VERY insistent that it had to be an M-Card and I was ensured that it indeed it was. Further, I was told upon receiving it, I would need to call tech support to get it paired. That was fine and totally expected.

When calling to get a tracking # today, I was told a) a tech appointment had to be made to install a cc since they don't mail them and b) FIOS does not yet have M-cards. I spoke to several people in FIOS tech support, customer service and sales. I asked why I was told by two people in two departments, that I was being sent an M-Card. Nobody had any idea why I was given this 'misinformation'.

I was on with Moxi tech support and again, they are great. But even they were unable to resolve this issue at this point. FIOS tech support insists they have never had M-cards but would probably have them in the future.

At this point I warn everyone with FIOS to be very careful when ordering ANY device that requires M-cards. Dealing with CC's and FIOS can be one of the more frustrating experiences. :(

When calling to get a tracking # today, I was told a) a tech appointment had to be made to install a cc since they don't mail them and b) FIOS does not yet have M-cards. I spoke to several people in FIOS tech support, customer service and sales. I asked why I was told by two people in two departments, that I was being sent an M-Card. Nobody had any idea why I was given this 'misinformation'.Unfortunately, Verizon FiOS will not ship CableCards under any circumstances.

To the representative on the phone, it looks like they can place an order to ship a CableCard, just as they do the STBs and DVRs. Indeed, they can submit an order. But the order will not be fulfilled. Any CableCard order without an accompanying installation is automatically canceled by the system. The reps on the phone have no control over this. They are told this during their training course, but not everything they are told is retained.

At this point I warn everyone with FIOS to be very careful when ordering ANY device that requires M-cards. Dealing with CC's and FIOS can be one of the more frustrating experiences. :(Verizon does have M-CARDs now, just don't expect them to ship you one. Because they won't. Ever.

Note Verizon's system does not differentiate between M-CARDs and CableCards. Their system simply says "CableCards" and there is no method in place to request anything more specific. That said, the older single-stream cards were discontinued about 13 months ago and are no longer available at all in most FiOS service areas. Installers will usually call 45-60 minutes before they arrive, so you can confirm on the phone that they have a M-CARD before they reach your home.

Thanks much bfdtv. It would have been nice if I had gotten this straightforward info from Verizon themselves.

I now have an appointment scheduled for next Monday and it looks like I'll have to keep my fingers crossed as to which card is being brought out. Hopefully the N.Y. area is out of CCs.

I've posted about Moxi on the TCF S3/HDTiVo Moxi thread, including an exchange of emails with Moxi Support...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7204205#post7204205

I just got off the phone to Moxi support, during which I checked to see that they received the email quoted in the TCF post, to which I haven't yet got a reply. (They did and promised I will!) I asked how their system for linking an external HDD works; whether it is more like TiVo's 'HDD marriage until divorce' or Echostar's 'HDD serial partnership'.

At this point I was informally told that any number of external HDDs, while registered to only one Moxi recorder, can be swapped in-and-out one-at-a-time to enable unlimited storage on that Moxi. As stated above, I was promised a definitive follow-up email.

I'm curious as to how Moxi gets listings. Is it similar to the Tivo download?

Bob

I'm curious as to how Moxi gets listings. Is it similar to the Tivo download?

Bob

Yes it's similar to Tivo. You can use Ethernet, PoE, or Wireless via a game adapter.

I'm not sure about the game adapter. I tried an access point with my Moxi and it didn't work. Moxi tech support (which is great), recommended a powerline ethernet adpater. This has worked very well.

I'm finally expecting Verizon to show up with an M-Card on Monday. Moxi has been doing their best to get this done via their contacts at Verizon. Getting an M-Card from Verizon is like pulling teeth.

I'm not sure about the game adapter. I tried an access point with my Moxi and it didn't work. Moxi tech support (which is great), recommended a powerline ethernet adpater. This has worked very well.

Not just any "access point" will work; the wireless "gaming adapter" devices aren't the same thing as a general purpose access point, and assuming the access point you had even supported backhauling *via WiFi* (many do not), they need to be set up in a very specific way to do it.

Off topic, but I used to use a similar setup, so I figured it should be pointed out...

Isn't the bcm7400 series in the motorola dcx? I know mso's are working on new versions of guides for newer platforms. I need to figure out if I can justify waiting for the rentable cable co solution or if I should jump on this. Now if it does do resolution passthrough and they will allow you to stream content from the PC than great! I wonder if it can stream h.264 or x.264 / xvi d / divx etc, I wouldn't have to plug my laptop in to the tv anymore. Although I like boxee's UI and wealth of online content and social features, I would hope that the moxi guys try to emulate that Internet content and social aspect in some way.

Sent from my iPhone.

I just received my Moxi today and am expecting Cox tomorrow for the M-Card... From what I have gathered is that the M-Card is what will enable VOD on the DVR although I am not positive on that front. I do know from what I was reading and have started playing with is that You can play content from a TwonkyMedia Server on your Moxie. So that should handle your streaming concern...

I just received my Moxi today and am expecting Cox tomorrow for the M-Card... From what I have gathered is that the M-Card is what will enable VOD on the DVR although I am not positive on that front.The Moxi is a unidirectional CableCard device, so it does not have the hardware to support VOD. It does not have the hardware to support SDV either, although Moxi does hope to support the SDV adapter (only supported by TiVo at this time) later this year.

The Moxi is a unidirectional CableCard device, so it does not have the hardware to support VOD. It does not have the hardware to support SDV either, although Moxi does hope to support the SDV adapter (only supported by TiVo at this time) later this year.
It is probable that I misunderstood, but I thought the M-Card is what enabled the 2-way for VOD beyond the 1st generation of CableCards..

It is probable that I misunderstood, but I thought the M-Card is what enabled the 2-way for VOD beyond the 1st generation of CableCards..

No, the cards themselves have nothing to do with that actually. Even the now deprecated S-Cards were perfectly capable of operating in a bidirectional-capable device - there just weren't any due to the licensing terms the present generation of generally-available CableCARD host devices were produced under. It's strictly political/business, not a technical limitation of the cards (but it is for those devices, due to the limitations imposed on them by CableLabs/CHILA). Upstream communication is a function of the host device (what the CableCARDs are plugged into).

Looks like MOXI will be offering payment plans to ease the "sticker shock" of the purchase.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2009-04/digeo-to-unveil-moxi-payment-plans/

Yes it's similar to Tivo. You can use Ethernet, PoE, or Wireless via a game adapter.

Thanks for the reply. I'm eager to hear the user reports on MOXI to see how it stacks up against TiVo.

Bob

This might be a stupid question, I tried looking for a answer on some searches but came empty handed.

Do you REALLY need a cable card for this box to work correctly? We wanted to buy 2 one for the living room and one for the best room. Problem is the living room is the only t.v. in the house with a cable box. The bedroom is standard cable with the coaxial straight to the t.v.

I know we can ask for the cable card for the living room t.v. but what if we just wanted to record standard cable channels for the bedroom? Standard cable has no guide since theirs no box at all, would this be possible to just use as a recording device with no cable card and on standard cable?

Do you REALLY need a cable card for this box to work correctly? We wanted to buy 2 one for the living room and one for the best room.Remember, the Moxi replaces the cable company box just like a Tivo; it does not connect to the cable box.

You don't need a CableCard, just like TiVo doesn't need a CableCard. Moxi doesn't include built-in analog tuners like TiVo, but they do make available an external adapter (Hauppauge tuner) for analog channels at no extra charge. This plugs into the USB port on the Moxi and allows it to tune or record one analog channel.

The Moxi will allow you to remap the "Clear QAM" (local SD and HD channels) with guide information using their web site, something TiVo cannot do. This makes the Moxi superior to the TiVo for basic cable customers [without CableCards], imo. The TiVo requires a CableCard to map "Clear QAM" channels to the appropriate numbers with guide information.

I know we can ask for the cable card for the living room t.v. but what if we just wanted to record standard cable channels for the bedroom? Standard cable has no guide since theirs no box at all, would this be possible to just use as a recording device with no cable card and on standard cable?For the bedroom Moxi, you'd want to request the separate analog tuner. It's not included by default, but it is free by request. As noted above, it connects to the USB port on the Moxi.

Keep in mind you will need some sort of network connection in your bedroom. Moxi downloads guide data from its own Internet servers, just like a TiVo. Moxi doesn't offer its own wireless adapter, so you'll need to either run an ethernet cable or buy a wireless bridge or powerline adapter. A powerline adapter kit like this one (http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-MegaPlug-Ethernet-Adapter-Twin-Pack/dp/B000QGBC8C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1240482584&sr=1-3) is probably a good choice.

Be aware that Moxi doesn't allow you to transfer recordings between DVRs in different rooms. Moxi could add that capability in the future, but I don't think they've said anything about it publicly.

Be aware that Moxi doesn't allow you to transfer recordings between DVRs in different rooms. Moxi could add that capability in the future, but I don't think they've said anything about it publicly.
This is a serious limitation compared to Tivo, IMO, but they are supposed to deliver a 'MoxiMate' extender to somewhat make up for it.
The biggest problem with the Moxi right now is that it costs too much, so they're going to relearn all the lessons lost by ReplayTV on why you shouldn't bundle the sub cost in with the hardware.

This is a serious limitation compared to Tivo, IMO, but they are supposed to deliver a 'MoxiMate' extender to somewhat make up for it.
The biggest problem with the Moxi right now is that it costs too much, so they're going to relearn all the lessons lost by ReplayTV on why you shouldn't bundle the sub cost in with the hardware.I don't know -- I think there's a lot of people who can do the math. And for those who have trouble with math, Moxi does a decent job of highlighting it on their site. The big appeal to me with ReplayTV in 2000 was the lifetime subscription and I didn't considered TIVO because of the lack of it. And it's the reason I now have renewed interest in Moxi. I wouldn't still be using my ReplayTV if I had to continue making payments.

I don't know -- I think there's a lot of people who can do the math. And for those who have trouble with math, Moxi does a decent job of highlighting it on their site.Moxi's cost comparisons are slanted in their favor, as you would expect on their site.

They don't compare their $799 Amazon price against the TivoHD's $250 Amazon price or the TivoHD XL's $480 Amazon price. They compare their $799 Amazon price against the $599 MSRP on the TivoHD XL. [And they certainly don't mention Sears' $199 price or the the availability of $330 TiVo lifetime subscriptions on ebay.]

Moxi is certainly competitive, price-wise, compared to a TiVo with lifetime service. But like slowbiscuit says, they are ignoring the majority of the potential market that would rather pay $500 less with monthly or yearly fees.

Be aware that Moxi doesn't allow you to transfer recordings between DVRs in different rooms. Moxi could add that capability in the future, but I don't think they've said anything about it publicly.

This is a serious limitation compared to Tivo, IMO, but they are supposed to deliver a 'MoxiMate' extender to somewhat make up for it.


The MOXI does allow transferring recordings between DVR's. Either using the future "MOXI-MATE" or using a second MOXI HD DVR.

http://moxi.com/us/faq.html FAQ 26

"Good news. The MOXI HD DVR was architected with the whole home in mind. At the recent Consumer Electronics Show, we showed our multi-room client product, but haven't announced the release date or price and will do that very soon. When we introduce this product, all the capabilities of the MOXI HD DVR can be accessed in other rooms including the recordings. No time consuming transfers as with TiVo. Recordings would be streamed over your home networks for instant access. If you wanted to get started today though, you could also buy a second MOXI HD DVR and the two will work together in the same manner."

Well that's good to know, but it's damn odd that they don't mention it upfront or in their Tivo comparison. Would be interesting to know how well it works.

One thing both Tivo and Moxi needs is cooperative scheduling, so if you have networked units you can setup recordings on any available tuner. ReplayTV has had this for years, albeit with a limited and quirky implementation.

...an exchange of emails with Moxi Support, in part regarding the dongle:

If settings of a recording from the analog dongle are changed while the recording is ongoing Moxi consistently freezes and reboots. At first I thought this glitch was going to be a deal-breaker, but as the workaround is not to modify the settings until the recording is over the only thing apparently lost is the ability to extend a recording on the fly. 'Keep until' can be extended after a recording is finished. The problem doesn't exist when recording from the digital tuners.

Hopefully you'll be able to duplicate the problem (it's consistent and repeatable) and make a software revision. It may be a deal-breaker for some and in any case is a significant flaw.

Within the past week-and-a-half Moxi released a software update that eliminated the freeze/reboot problem when recording from the dongle.

...I asked (Moxi Support) how their system for linking an external HDD works; whether it is more like TiVo's 'HDD marriage until divorce' or Echostar's 'HDD serial partnership'.

At this point I was informally told that any number of external HDDs, while registered to only one Moxi recorder, can be swapped in-and-out one-at-a-time to enable unlimited storage on that Moxi. As stated above, I was promised a definitive follow-up email.

I received this email from Moxi Support:

Re: Follow-up to Trouble Ticket Number 1705 resolution
Monday, April 20, 2009 10:50 AM
From: "CustomerCare" <CustomerCare@moxi.com>
To: (fallingwater)

We did confirm that you can use as many External Hard Drives as you want to, however of course you can only use one at a time. Be sure you always disconnect by going into the Moxi menu -> settings -> external hard drive and disconnect the drive properly.

Regards,

Moxi Customer Care

any chance Bestbuy will carry this model?

The MOXI does allow transferring recordings between DVR's. Either using the future "MOXI-MATE" or using a second MOXI HD DVR.

http://moxi.com/us/faq.html FAQ 26Well that's good to know, but it's damn odd that they don't mention it upfront or in their Tivo comparison. Would be interesting to know how well it works.There's a reason they don't mention it. Email from Moxi:

Apologies that our FAQ wasn’t clear and we will fix that. We plan to introduce multi-room HD DVR functionality this year; soon you will be able to use your Moxi for multi-room viewing. While your Moxi HD DVR does not yet have the multi-room functionality, the great news is that when we release this new product, the corresponding software upgrade to your main DVR will occur automatically and at no cost!

...

If you wanted to get started today though, you could also buy a second Moxi HD DVR – one for each room – and when we introduce the multi-room software upgrade, the two Moxi’s will work together in the same manner to be able to share content between one another, or with “Moxi Mates” when we introduce them. Content recorded, even premium copy-protected shows will be able to be streamed from the Moxi HD DVR to another Moxi HD DVR or Moxi Mate with complete transport control to pause, rewind and fast-forward.
Features promised do not equal features delivered. That said, clearly this is something Moxi is working to deliver this year.

any chance Bestbuy will carry this model?Not any time soon. At this time, Moxi is only able to achieve their current price point via "direct" sales. You order from Amazon.com and the box is shipped directly from Moxi to you. By selling their product this way, Moxi eliminates the "cut" taken by other distributors and retailers.

As an example, Best Buy paid just $208 for each TivoHD when it was released in 2007, and pays less than $180 now...which it then resells for $279-$299. Distributors and retailers require certain margins or subsidies to carry a product, which has the effect of significantly increasing product price. This is the reason why TiVo sells lifetime subscriptions separately, rather than including them with the unit at retail; that way, TiVo receives all the revenue from the subscription, rather than sharing it with distributors and retailers.

I just placed an order, via the Moxi website, for the HD DVR. I was directed to PayPal, where the actual transaction took place. As soon as I submitted through PayPal, I was re-directed to Moxi's home page with no confirmation of order. I did, however, receive a confirmation email from PayPal that my transaction was completed and 'sent' to Moxi. I'm wondering when I'll get my order and shipping information?

I just placed an order, via the Moxi website, for the HD DVR. I was directed to PayPal, where the actual transaction took place. As soon as I submitted through PayPal, I was re-directed to Moxi's home page with no confirmation of order. I did, however, receive a confirmation email from PayPal that my transaction was completed and 'sent' to Moxi. I'm wondering when I'll get my order and shipping information?

I got my own question answered with a call to an extremely friendly Moxi rep. Apparently, the PayPal order process is handled completely separately from the Amazon process on the back-end. All of the PayPal orders are actually aggregated through a single woman at the Moxi office, who responds to each order by sending a 'welcome' email and then she sends your info to their distribution center.

So in case anyone uses the PayPal payment feature and is wondering why they didn't receive a confirmation, just be patient and rest assured that your order will be personally handled.

And I must also mention how friendly and conversational the customer service reps are - that's rare these days!

I added this TivoHD vs Moxi comparison to the TivoHD FAQ:

How does the Moxi compare to the TivoHD?

The Moxi is a dual-tuner HDTV DVR for cable with name-based recording and season passes, much like the TiVo. Moxi licenses guide data from Tribune and delivers 14-days of guide data to each box using their own Internet servers, just like TiVo.

The Moxi is $799 @ Amazon.com. It is not available at retail. That price includes a lifetime subscription; the Moxi is not available at a lower price with a monthly or yearly subscription.


Moxi Advantages


Being a newer product, the hardware is based on newer technology (i.e. faster DVR CPU)


In of itself, this means little. But Moxi developers have more CPU cycles and memory bandwidth to work with when adding new features.


16:9 HD menus (as opposed to a 4:3 menus on a 16:9 HD background)


The Moxi UI has crisper, sharper text and graphics in the menus.

In some cases, Moxi takes advantage of the 16:9 aspect ratio to show more information on the screen. Note however, that Moxi actually shows less guide information on the screen than TiVo.


Picture window on every menu screen that shows the current liveTV channel and/or current recording.


Fast guide scrolling / scanning.


Minimum 1.5 hour HD buffer per tuner (compared to 30 minutes for TiVo); can be up to 3.0 hours per tuner on SD channels;


Can record three cable channels at the same time (two digital, one analog) when the free WinTV-HVR-1950 (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1950.html) USB tuner is connected.


Clear QAM channel mapping through a web interface to fully support HD locals on cable -- with program information-- without the need for a CableCard.


DLNA 1.0 client support allows access to music. photos, and videos on computers, network attached storage, mobile phones, and other devices without proprietary software.


Moxi includes a free license to "PlayOn" DLNA software for Windows, which allows you to watch Netflix, Hulu, CBS, YouTube, CNN, and ESPN Internet feeds from a PC through the Moxi;

Windows 7 has DLNA server functionality built-in, so you'll be able to right-click on a music or video file on your Windows 7 PC, select "Play to Moxi" from the pop-up menu, and that music or video file will begin playing on the Moxi.

Moxi is currently working to add DLNA 2.0 capability with DTCP-IP encryption. This will allow the Moxi to stream recordings throughout the home to other DLNA 2.0 compliant devices that support DTCP-IP encryption.


Conflict management allows you to choose which of the two conflicting programs you would like to skip. You aren't limited to skipping the lower priority program.


No advertising whatsoever in the UI.


Storage expansion works with any external eSATA drive up to 2.0TB, not just the My DVR Expander (500GB, 1TB).


External drives can be added and removed at will to archive recordings; recordings are not split across internal and external drives, so recordings are not lost when a drive is removed.


Adjustable duration on skip button (30 seconds, 3 minutes, etc).


Ability to display a small guide at bottom of the screen.


On-screen widgets for weather, sports scores, stock quotes, etc, updated in real time.


Online scheduling with real time conflict resolution and the ability to edit / cancel scheduled recordings.


Includes backlit remote (included with TivoHD XL, but a $50 option on TivoHD)


Moxi provides less auto-correction on FF / REW (can be good or bad, entirely subjective)


Moxi Disadvantages


$799 @ Amazon.com with lifetime service and 500GB drive; there is no option to purchase for less with monthly or yearly fees


No ATSC (OTA) support; the Moxi is cable only;


No support for SDV channels on cable -- Moxi expects to add that capability in 2H 2009;


No built-in support for analog channels; customers must request a free USB device (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr1950.html) to add a single analog tuner to the box;


Cannot download or transfer recordings to a computer; cannot view DVR recordings on a computer;


No support for multi-room viewing;


Later this year, Moxi plans to add multi-room viewing between Moxi DVRs and MoxiMate extenders. Unlike the current implementation of MRV on the TiVo, there will be no restrictions on what recordings can be streamed from one room to another, thanks to the use of DTCP-IP encryption.


No wishlists or comparable functionality (can't record based on search);


You cannot setup a single recording to record all new games with your favorite team, regardless of date, time, and channel. You cannot create a single recording to record all new pilots and season premieres. You cannot create a single recording for all new HD movies in a particular genre. You cannot create a recording for a future program not yet listed in the guide, whenever and wherever it shows.


No overlap protection, so 1-2 minute program overlaps cause conflicts that can result in missed recordings.


Many networks run their programs 1-2 minutes past the hour, and this creates conflicts with programs on other networks. TiVo clips off 1-2 minutes from the lowest-priority conflicting program so it still gets recorded, whereas Moxi cancels the recording for the conflicting program.
You can manually edit the start and end times to avoid conflicts, but it isn't done automatically like TiVo, so you've got to pay special attention to potential 1-2 minute conflicts.


Does not keep a record of recorded programs to prevent re-recording the same programs after they are deleted from the DVR;


No display of recorded history or missed programs due to conflicts; if a program is not recorded due to a conflict, there is no record of that on the Moxi;


Does not remember the position on the inactive tuner. You can't pause one tuner, switch to a different tuner, and then resume where you left off; the inactive tuner always switches to liveTV;


Lacks "traditional" grid-based program guide.


Moxi's guide is similar to the default "TiVo-style" guide in that it only shows upcoming programs for the currently selected channel. Moxi presents this information in much more graphical way, with quick access to content filters, but they actually show less upcoming program information on the screen (three upcoming timeslots, compared to eight timeslots on TiVo).
There is no option to use a traditional grid-based guide instead, as you can on the TiVo.
No way to view information for programs that have ended.


When you turn on the Moxi, it always displays a liveTV window, even when there is a recording-in-progress (such as a sporting event); there is no way to hide the liveTV window;


If the user is recording a sports event to watch later, or to watch on a delay to skip commercials, the viewing experience is "spoiled" because the user sees the score before they've started to watch the recording. This behavior is detrimental to sports viewing, but sporting events aren't the only programs affected; key plot developments in movies and series may be revealed before the user has the opportunity to watch the recording. That is not the desired behavior, as it acts as a built-in spoiler.
When you finish watching a recorded program, the liveTV video window should always default to whatever channel is not recording. If two programs are recording, then display a black video window with a message, "Two recordings in progress. Press the LiveTV button to display the picture." If Moxi wishes to preserve the existing behavior for some users, then it should add this as an option in global settings.


No manual recording screen. You can only create recordings from the program guide or by selecting a search result.


No way to customize how recorded programs are displayed (with folders, without folders, list by date recorded, etc).


Does not support 16:9 anamorphic SD output through s-video and composite connections -- it always adds bars to the top and bottom of 16:9 HD channels -- so you cannot use a DVD recorder to create 16:9 DVDs;


No option to use a phone line for guide downloads; a network connection is required, using a direct run of ethernet cable, a wireless bridge, a powerline adapter, or a MoCA adapter.


Has only one CableCard slot, so a M-CARD is required for both tuners to function with digital cable. If your cable provider doesn't have M-CARDs available, then you won't get dual-tuner functionality.


No support for Netflix's HD; only supports Netflix SD, and only does so when a Windows PC is on and running the PlayOn software;


No support for Amazon's HDTV VOD service with series and movies downloads in 1080p24 with DD5.1 ($4.99 per HD movie, $2.99 per HD episode).


Moxi provides less auto-correction on FF / REW (can be good or bad, entirely subjective)


Interface not as intuitive (subjective)

Note: This only compares TiVo and Moxi. Like any other unidirectional CableCard device, the Moxi does not support cable company VOD.

If anyone else has something to add, please post.

Edit: Note the numbers were changed since the original posting, so they don't necessarily correspond to number references by other posters.

bfdtv, do you have the Moxi? Your pros & cons list are pretty much on target and seem to be from the perspective of someone who has used the device on an ongoing basis.

I might nitpick one or two of your disadvantages, such as #13 (which I would consider an advantage) and #19 which, as you suggest, is subjective. The subjectivity of #19 is illustrated in my wife's and my reaction to the interface. I actually find it more intuitive and my wife finds it less so.

I have a couple of other nitpicks with the Moxi itself, but I'll post those in a couple of days as I get more time to look at it.

BTW, one advantage I would add without any question at all, is the Moxi tech support. They are simply the best you'll find these days. They assisted me with an M-Card acquisition issue with FIOS by going up the corporate chain of FIOS. Not too many companies would take the time to bother.

Interesting list, bfdtv and I agree with all points.

I find the Moxi UI very hard to get used to and hate the fact I can't see a time grid like I could with my comcast DVR.

I've never had a Tivo so I can't comment from that perspective. Took me ages to find out what recordings I had schedule to record ... and when I found it I realized that I had setup the SD versions.... finding a show to record is a LOT harder than Comcast if you known when the show is on - you can't find it by time slot - you have to do a search on the show which is cumbersome.

I prefer to see a grid so I can see at a glance what is coming up in the next hour or so - with Moxi you can't do that unless you go by individual channel.

I'm also very disappointed that when you are fast forwarding and hit play it doesn't back up enough (isn't it better to err on that side?). My two main motivators for getting this unit was for that feature plus more hard drive space.

Thanks for the list. That really helps put it into perspective.

Moxi guys really want to deliver a great product, so pointing out some of the "flaws" may assist them in the direction they want to take for future software updates.

I'm going to wait a little while and watch to see how fast they release software updates, and what kinds of features they would be willing to put into the updates. A grid guide and / or the ability to see more than just the next 3 shows would be nice. Some of the wishlist, manual recording option, adding numbers or names next to channels that do not have a logo, overlap protection, getting content onto the computer, and support for x.264 on MKV or AVI containers via DLNA 2.0+ would be a must.

They are halfway there, but just not yet at the finish line. Like anything, I think it will get better.

bfdtv, do you have the Moxi? Your pros & cons list are pretty much on target and seem to be from the perspective of someone who has used the device on an ongoing basis.I don't own the new Moxi, but I've used the older Motorola BMC9012 (Moxi) on Charter in the past.

In the past week, I've exchanged PMs with two new Moxi owners. Moxi has also been great about answering product questions via email; that's where I got many of the details in the above post.

The Moxi clearly has some advantages, but a few of the disadvantages are "deal breakers" for me. Moxi must address them before it will get my money. Moxi said via email that they plan to address some of my concerns later this year, which is very promising.

I might nitpick one or two of your disadvantages, such as #13 (which I would consider an advantage) and #19 which, as you suggest, is subjective. The subjectivity of #19 is illustrated in my wife's and my reaction to the interface. I actually find it more intuitive and my wife finds it less so.In #13, I clarified how it should work differently (imo). Here's what I wrote Moxi last week:

(5) Add a global setting to hide (or black out) the liveTV video window on recordings-in-progress.

When the user selects a liveTV channel, the Moxi shows a liveTV video window in the menus. When the user selects a recording, the Moxi shows the recorded video window in the menus. In each case, that is the desired behavior.

When you exit a recording on the Moxi, a liveTV video window is displayed, even if that window is a recording-in-progress. If the user is recording a sports event to watch later, or to watch on a delay to skip commercials, the viewing experience is "spoiled" because the user sees the score before they've started to watch the recording. This behavior is detrimental to sports viewing, but sporting events aren't the only programs affected; key plot developments in movies and series may be revealed before the user has the opportunity to watch the recording. That is not the desired behavior.

When you finish watching a recorded program, the Moxi's liveTV video window should always default to whatever channel is not recording. If two programs are recording, then display a black video window with a message, "Two recordings in progress. Press the LiveTV button to display the picture." If you wish to preserve the existing behavior for users that have grown accustomed to it, then you can add this as an option in global settings.

I prefer to see a grid so I can see at a glance what is coming up in the next hour or so - with Moxi you can't do that unless you go by individual channel.

I'm also very disappointed that when you are fast forwarding and hit play it doesn't back up enough (isn't it better to err on that side?). My two main motivators for getting this unit was for that feature plus more hard drive space.It sounds like you would be more satisfied with TiVo, since it addresses those complaints.

At this time, the "perfect" DVR does not exist, so you have to decide what features are most important to you.

Is Moxi shipping a version of this box to any cable providers?

Is Moxi shipping a version of this box to any cable providers?The version of this box for cable providers is the Moxi 3012 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1109524). The hardware and software are very similar in hardware and software. The cable co version has a 160GB drive, rather than 500GB.

Interesting list, bfdtv and I agree with all points.

I find the Moxi UI very hard to get used to and hate the fact I can't see a time grid like I could with my comcast DVR.

I prefer to see a grid so I can see at a glance what is coming up in the next hour or so - with Moxi you can't do that unless you go by individual channel.

I'm also very disappointed that when you are fast forwarding and hit play it doesn't back up enough (isn't it better to err on that side?). My two main motivators for getting this unit was for that feature plus more hard drive space.
Well if you send it back, I'll look forward to the refurb sale.

Rumor has it that they don't have many cable operators as customers. There is Charter and BendBroadband.

Any one else? And are they being deployed?

I'm very excited about this box, but would like some certainty that they are shipping in some reasonable volume. I don't see that the Amazon and AVS crowd is going to do it. If nothing else, it would hopefully motivate other providers to pick up quantity. For example, if TWC started buying some, I could either get one through them, or get my own box. (I would opt for the latter as I see TWC boxes as being crippled.)

The nice thing about Tivo is their installed base and collection of IP that makes them reasonably stable.

Add a global setting to hide (or black out) the video window on recordings-in-progress.I guess I'm having a little trouble understanding why this is so important to you. I can't seem to work up any concern over it.

One thing that Moxi should definitely add, is the option for a clock/channel display on the front of the unit. The "Moxi" display adds no useful input to the viewer.

I guess I'm having a little trouble understanding why this is so important to you. I can't seem to work up any concern over it.Go over to the TiVo forum and you'll see this is a "deal killer" for many. They do not want built-in spoiler functionality, which is exactly what this does for people that like to record sports. Most of these users do not like (and/or will not tolerate) being told how the program / event ends before they start watching it.

It is common for cable company DVR users to watch a [comparatively] high percentage of liveTV, due to the inherent limitations of those boxes -- limited storage, significantly less than 99.9% reliability, more limited DVR functionality, and inferior commercial skipping. When you use a cable company DVR, you learn to live with certain limitations because you have no other choice. These limitations affect how and to what extent the DVR is used.

People with other DVRs are not faced with the same limitations, and so they do not learn to live with them. They tend to record much more of their programming over time, and many grow to expect certain things from their DVR, such as ~100% reliability, and as alluded above, not spoiling the outcomes of recordings before they are viewed.

... They do not want built-in spoiler functionality, which is exactly what this does for people that like to record sports... Whew. I didn't mean to get you work up. This one sentence would have sufficed. But since you seem to feel the need to lecture me on how real DVR users watch TV, I'll point out that I've been using ReplayTV since 2000 and indeed watch very little live TV. But for the rare occasion where I might be subjected to a few second glimpse of a live sports event, I still say "meh". I'll save my rants for more important issues.

Whew. I didn't mean to get you work up. This one sentence would have sufficed. But since you seem to feel the need to lecture me on how real DVR users watch TV, I'll point out that I've been using ReplayTV since 2000 and indeed watch very little live TV. But for the rare occasion where I might be subjected to a few second glimpse of a live sports event, I still say "meh". I'll save my rants for more important issues.

IMHO bfdtv was not ranting or lecturing, just providing a well intended, albeit verbose explanation.

Go over to the TiVo forum and you'll see this is a "deal killer" for many.

I'm not real interested in the TIVO

You seem bfdtv, to be quite taken with the TIVO, fine, but I notice you listed in your advantages for moxie "no advertising in ui" well if that means there's advertising in the TIVO ui, that would be a deal killer for me.

Mostly I'm just wanting to hear about the new Moxie. I hope you guys keep filling us in. Hoping also for a special sale but I'm not holding my breath.

Dave

There seem to be two threads for the MOXI DVR. I bought one through Amazon. I am now returning it.

Clear QAM had missing channels, that come through fine on my HDTV tuner.

I got a cablecard and had missing HD channels, and Comcast had trouble activating upgraded services. Replacing the cablecard got the upgrade to work, but the no-signal channels are still missing. Comcast repairman says there *is* signal after using his test equipment. MOXI support says they think they have a software issue.

The MOXI crashed twice. That is two too many for me.

I'm returning it as defective, but these may be design issues.

"My DVR Extender" is due via UPS on Tuesday.

Interesting list, bfdtv and I agree with all points.

I find the Moxi UI very hard to get used to and hate the fact I can't see a time grid like I could with my comcast DVR.

I've never had a Tivo so I can't comment from that perspective. Took me ages to find out what recordings I had schedule to record ... and when I found it I realized that I had setup the SD versions.... finding a show to record is a LOT harder than Comcast if you known when the show is on - you can't find it by time slot - you have to do a search on the show which is cumbersome.

I prefer to see a grid so I can see at a glance what is coming up in the next hour or so - with Moxi you can't do that unless you go by individual channel.

I'm also very disappointed that when you are fast forwarding and hit play it doesn't back up enough (isn't it better to err on that side?). My two main motivators for getting this unit was for that feature plus more hard drive space.

Your observations are informative from my perspective. I own Moxi, HDTiVo, and ReplayTV and have used Comcast's DVR in the past.

I too prefer a grid guide over either Moxi's or TiVo's specialty EPGs. TiVo does offer a grid style but TiVo's grid EPG suffers from overly small graphics (same size as its specialty guide) and more importantly no longer displays program listings prior to the present.

Of all DVRs, only TiVo and ReplayTV display program info for programs which have ended. TiVo requires that that info be entered on a separate screen to re-search a program that you've missed while ReplayTV can search directly from its EPG's past listings. ReplayTV has my favorite EPG both for functionality and legibility, but for hi-def, ReplayTV isn't an option.

Moxi and TiVo both employ small graphics in their EPGs which can be hard to make out from across the room. Comcast's and ReplayTV's grid EPGs are easier to read than either TiVo's or Moxi's.

It's possible to zoom the screen on high-def flatscreens to enhance legibility. Zooming works well for Moxi because Moxi's EPG centers the selected program info. With TiVo, zooming the screen's image places the bottom listing below the screen's edge.

Regarding Moxi's FF/RW compensation I come to the opposite conclusion from your's. Moxi's compensation works well with my reflex patterns. TiVo's, for me, is overcompensated to the point of being annoying. Sony's discontinued hi-def DVR offers user selectable compensation, the best solution.

Rumor has it that they don't have many cable operators as customers. There is Charter and BendBroadband.

Any one else? And are they being deployed?

I'm very excited about this box, but would like some certainty that they are shipping in some reasonable volume. I don't see that the Amazon and AVS crowd is going to do it. If nothing else, it would hopefully motivate other providers to pick up quantity. For example, if TWC started buying some, I could either get one through them, or get my own box. (I would opt for the latter as I see TWC boxes as being crippled.)

The nice thing about Tivo is their installed base and collection of IP that makes them reasonably stable.

Click on Availability for Moxi's cable DVR locations:

http://www.digeo.com/tech_cable.jsp

...I bought (the Moxi DVR) through Amazon. I am now returning it.

Clear QAM had missing channels, that come through fine on my HDTV tuner.

... MOXI support says they think they have a software issue.

The MOXI crashed twice. That is two too many for me.

I'm returning it as defective, but these may be design issues.

Moxi Customer Support is exceptional, both friendly and helpful.

When I began using Moxi a few weeks ago it had a software glitch which caused it to lock up and crash whenever recording options were changed while a recording was taking place through the analog dongle. Within two weeks Moxi issued a software upgrade which eliminated that issue.

I've got another week to go on my 30 day money back guarantee.

Click on Availability for Moxi's cable DVR locations:

http://www.digeo.com/tech_cable.jsp

Unfortunately, the list is out of date. I used to have a Moxi and I am in a listed region on the Moxi site. TWC phased out Moxi's and don't have new Moxi's AFAIK. Otherwise I wouldn't have the stupid TWC box. I could rant on TWC, but already have. They should never expect an endorsement from me. Its interesting that if I click on "find out more" on the cable option for the link you provided, it goes nowhere.

BTW, I originally had multiple ReplayTVs but ended up with a Moxi when it was about the only HD-DVR in town. I'm used to and am happy with the user interface; it does have a learning curve.

I'm interested in the providers that are actually getting the new DVR. I want some assurance that I'm not buying a white elephant.

I use ReplayTV's at the end of video signal chains for standard-def storage and their excellent EPG.

Here's an interesting page from the TW Cable sight:
http://www.timewarnercable.com/SoCal/support/local/guides_help.html
In my area Comcast provides DVRs and STBs with iGuide which is OK. I take it you have one of the Sci-Atl DVRs?

In my area Comcast provides DVRs and STBs with iGuide which is OK

Well, thanks for the link, but I disagree. Here in Carlsbad TW has discontinued Moxie and I have the Motorola with iGuide now and I don't like it .

It's funny, but in that screenshot it shows a section at the bottom saying "Take charge with parental controls" Well, actually, that section is where they have ads.
Dave

I too prefer a grid guide over either Moxi's or TiVo's specialty EPGs. TiVo does offer a grid style but TiVo's grid EPG suffers from overly small graphics (same size as its specialty guide) and more importantly no longer displays program listings prior to the present.

Of all DVRs, only TiVo and ReplayTV display program info for programs which have ended. TiVo requires that that info be entered on a separate screen to re-search a program that you've missed while ReplayTV can search directly from its EPG's past listings. ReplayTV has my favorite EPG both for functionality and legibility, but for hi-def, ReplayTV isn't an option.

You can go backwards in the Tivo grid guide - simply hit the skip back button (or rewind) and you can go back a couple of days to see what you missed. Well, for show titles at least - you're right that you can't see details. Each press of skip forward/skip back goes a day forward and back in the guide, FF/REW is 90 mins. Pretty much the same as on a Replay (I also have both).
RTV had arguably superior software but they blew it, so we have to live with what we have and hope that Moxi (or someone) pushes Tivo to make a good product even better.

Well, thanks for the link, but I disagree. Here in Carlsbad TW has discontinued Moxie and I have the Motorola with iGuide now and I don't like it .

It's funny, but in that screenshot it shows a section at the bottom saying "Take charge with parental controls" Well, actually, that section is where they have ads.
Dave

Ditto. I keep hitting buttons I can't get back from with Iguide. I have never seen the MOXI UI shown on the TWC page, what version is it? I suppose its an artist conception. AFAIK, TWC stopped the guide info for Moxi in Socal.

...Here in Carlsbad TW has discontinued Moxie and I have the Motorola with iGuide now and I don't like it.

It's funny, but in that screenshot it shows a section at the bottom saying "Take charge with parental controls" Well, actually, that section is where they have ads.
Dave

Ditto. I keep hitting buttons I can't get back from with Iguide. I have never seen the MOXI UI shown on the TWC page, what version is it? I suppose its an artist conception. AFAIK, TWC stopped the guide info for Moxi in Socal.

I don't like the layout of Comcast's STB/DVR remote. While the remote functions reliably, it's not nearly as intuitive as ReplayTV's or TiVo's or even (after the short but steep learning curve), Moxi's. Comcast's remote is laid out in a convoluted fashion and requires more key pushes to accomplish basic functions than others.

But other than Comcast's remote and the ads what are your criticism's of iGuide itself? For me it's easy to read and relatively aesthetic.

The artist's conception of Moxi's GUI looks like what Moxi is using on its standalone and, I assumed, cable STB's. Definitely different and eye catching and while a bit much, not as confusing as first appears. Also, no ads at all! I initially thought Moxi's GUI was overly convoluted, but after having used it awhile, find it gets the job done. Moxi's EPG is accessed directly from its remote's MOXI button which then provides access to all other Moxi features.

Subjective nitpicking:
While Moxi's remote has bigger keys and a basically similiar keypad layout, I find TiVo's Premium black 'Peanut' learning remote classier in appearance. TiVo's Peanut is also somewhat less 'tippy'.

The Peanut's backlight is a proven battery hog; I don't know about Moxi's. Both remote's backlights can be turned off. As mentioned in Sound & Vision's review of Moxi in the current April/May issue, not yet online, it's easy to mistakenly use the Moxi remote's FF/RW (<< >>) transport buttons instead of the GUI navigation buttons (← →).

it's easy to mistakenly use the Moxi remote's FF/RW (<< >>) transport buttons instead of the GUI navigation buttons (← →).

I made that mistake about ten times. I figured I was just being stupid. It is good to know I'm not the only one who would hit rewind, when I wanted arrow left.

But other than Comcast's remote and the ads what are your criticism's of iGuide itself?

Well, I've got lots. I think I know what Ken meant about not being able to get out of some things. If you push fast forward, or rewind and accidently touch another button, your cursor will not work until you find the button you hit and undo it. Youll be flying past what you want and you can't stop it. The stop button will not work.

Also, the stupid screens that pop up like, "Your recording has now started" that block practically the whole screen and stay there for 30 seconds unless you pick up the remote and press "OK".

The fact that the search function finds only the SD version of a show. My Moxie always listed all the channels a show appeared on and you could just choose to record the HD one. With this Motorola, if you find your show airs on SD on wed at 9, well then you need to scroll all the way through till next wednesday and hope it appears at the same time in HD. Scrolling more than a day takes quite a while.

Unbelievably, even if you are watching a show on HD and clink "info" then"set series recording" the unit will record the show on the SD channel. The only way to set a series recording to a HD channel is to surf through the listings.

There are other weird quirks. If you set a recording it may pop up that "Your request conflicts with two previous recordings" but it will display only the first one. And then, if you choose to go ahead and record, it pre-empts the second one - the one you didn't see.

Another thing is the display on the box. I like that theres a clock, but when you fast-forward, it switches to FF on the display. Or when it's recording all you see is "REC" on the screen.



Oh by the way for Ken maybe, and others with Time-Warner. I saw a TW cable guy today and asked him about the new Moxie. He said there was no chance they will be going back to Moxie (here in San Diego area). But he said that they will be going over to Scientific Atlanta as soon as their contract with Motorola is up.

Dave

Well, I've got lots. I think I know what Ken meant about not being able to get out of some things. If you push fast forward, or rewind and accidently touch another button, your cursor will not work until you find the button you hit and undo it. Youll be flying past what you want and you can't stop it. The stop button will not work.

Also, the stupid screens that pop up like, "Your recording has now started" that block practically the whole screen and stay there for 30 seconds unless you pick up the remote and press "OK".

The fact that the search function finds only the SD version of a show. My Moxie always listed all the channels a show appeared on and you could just choose to record the HD one. With this Motorola, if you find your show airs on SD on wed at 9, well then you need to scroll all the way through till next wednesday and hope it appears at the same time in HD. Scrolling more than a day takes quite a while.

Unbelievably, even if you are watching a show on HD and clink "info" then"set series recording" the unit will record the show on the SD channel. The only way to set a series recording to a HD channel is to surf through the listings.

There are other weird quirks. If you set a recording it may pop up that "Your request conflicts with two previous recordings" but it will display only the first one. And then, if you choose to go ahead and record, it pre-empts the second one - the one you didn't see.

Another thing is the display on the box. I like that theres a clock, but when you fast-forward, it switches to FF on the display. Or when it's recording all you see is "REC" on the screen.



Oh by the way for Ken maybe, and others with Time-Warner. I saw a TW cable guy today and asked him about the new Moxie. He said there was no chance they will be going back to Moxie (here in San Diego area). But he said that they will be going over to Scientific Atlanta as soon as their contract with Motorola is up.

Dave

Thats quite interesting. The head of TWC San Diego wants to deploy Samsung boxes. They even started testing a Moto box in the Palm Springs area. The Samsung HD-DVR does have a 320 GB HDD. I believe they won't be deploying Navigator in the ex Adelphia areas. It will be a tru2way version of iGuide. Navigator is for the Scientific Atlanta area in non north county San Diego.

I'm going Tivo or the new Moxi. I just want to know some cable company has committed to about about 10,000 or more of them before I buy the Moxi.

As for Tivo, if they constructively updated the Tivo HD, I'd go with them with lifetime service. I do like the Moxi DLNA client capability. If they could support Firefox on it ...

How's the noise on these guys? Is it suitable for the bedroom?

Apparently there is some talk about a tru2way roll out on July 1. Is this true? If so, what does this add to the mix. I hear there is an Echostar T2200S lurking out there. Sorry about getting off topic.

I'm going Tivo or the new Moxi. I just want to know some cable company has committed to about about 10,000 or more of them before I buy the Moxi.
From Engadget http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/04/28/charters-moxi-3012-hd-dvr-rollout-reaches-wisconsin/

Looking for a Moxi box without paying $799 (even in easy monthly payments) up front? We got the heads up that Charter is expanding the footprint for its Cable HD DVR 3012 multistream CableCARD box, starting with Wisconsin. Apparently following a successful test in St. Louis Charter is ready to deploy 23,000 of the set-top boxes in 2009 and make it the primary DVR in the area. No official word from Charter on the new hardware yet, but the trend of Digeo actually shipping units is one we can get used to.

Well, I've got lots (of criticisms of iGuide). I think I know what Ken meant about not being able to get out of some things. If you push fast forward, or rewind and accidently touch another button, your cursor will not work until you find the button you hit and undo it. Youll be flying past what you want and you can't stop it. The stop button will not work.

Also, the stupid screens that pop up like, "Your recording has now started" that block practically the whole screen and stay there for 30 seconds unless you pick up the remote and press "OK".

The fact that the search function finds only the SD version of a show. My Moxie always listed all the channels a show appeared on and you could just choose to record the HD one. With this Motorola, if you find your show airs on SD on wed at 9, well then you need to scroll all the way through till next wednesday and hope it appears at the same time in HD. Scrolling more than a day takes quite a while.

Unbelievably, even if you are watching a show on HD and clink "info" then"set series recording" the unit will record the show on the SD channel. The only way to set a series recording to a HD channel is to surf through the listings.

There are other weird quirks. If you set a recording it may pop up that "Your request conflicts with two previous recordings" but it will display only the first one. And then, if you choose to go ahead and record, it pre-empts the second one - the one you didn't see.

Another thing is the display on the box. I like that theres a clock, but when you fast-forward, it switches to FF on the display. Or when it's recording all you see is "REC" on the screen.

Oh by the way for Ken maybe, and others with Time-Warner. I saw a TW cable guy today and asked him about the new Moxie. He said there was no chance they will be going back to Moxie (here in San Diego area). But he said that they will be going over to Scientific Atlanta as soon as their contract with Motorola is up.

Dave

Fair enough! It's amazing how stupidly some products are designed.

I've got a Panasonic mini-stereo which I use for TV audio. It has a timer function which utilizes a pleasant looking relatively large clock display. But the only time the clock displays is when setting the time. When the stereo is off it displays nothing and when it's on it displays only the input or station.

Most of your well taken points apply to Comcast's DVR, which I no longer have. I use a standard-def digital STB with iGuide which Comcast provides at no extra charge. The STB does display the annoying recording popups but at least it can be pre-programmed to change channels. I pad the start/end times by a minute to omit the screens from covering the program I want and use it with Moxi's analog dongle to casually record Premium channels in standard-def without a CableCARD.

I'm going Tivo or the new Moxi. I just want to know some cable company has committed to about about 10,000 or more of them before I buy the Moxi.

As for Tivo, if they constructively updated the Tivo HD, I'd go with them with lifetime service. I do like the Moxi DLNA client capability. If they could support Firefox on it ...

How's the noise on these guys? Is it suitable for the bedroom?

I've got both HDTiVo and Moxi and in my experience both are exceptionally quiet.

Soon after I got Moxi I turned off its front panel lights. Then a night or two later Moxi rebooted itself. At about 3:00a.m. on came the big blue MOXI which really lit up the room. At the time I didn't know what was happening or why. It only happened that one time, although I've since manually rebooted Moxi on purpose when configuring it with the dongle.

...TiVo does offer a grid style but TiVo's grid EPG suffers from overly small graphics (same size as its specialty guide) and more importantly no longer displays program listings prior to the present.

Of all DVRs, only TiVo and ReplayTV display program info for programs which have ended. TiVo requires that that info be entered on a separate screen to re-search a program that you've missed while ReplayTV can search directly from its EPG's past listings. ReplayTV has my favorite EPG both for functionality and legibility, but for hi-def, ReplayTV isn't an option.

Moxi and TiVo both employ small graphics in their EPGs which can be hard to make out from across the room. Comcast's and ReplayTV's grid EPGs are easier to read than either TiVo's or Moxi's.

It's possible to zoom the screen on high-def flatscreens to enhance legibility. Zooming works well for Moxi because Moxi's EPG centers the selected program info. With TiVo, zooming the screen's image places the bottom listing below the screen's edge.

You can go backwards in the Tivo grid guide - simply hit the skip back button (or rewind) and you can go back a couple of days to see what you missed. Well, for show titles at least - you're right that you can't see details. Each press of skip forward/skip back goes a day forward and back in the guide, FF/REW is 90 mins. Pretty much the same as on a Replay (I also have both).
RTV had arguably superior software but they blew it, so we have to live with what we have and hope that Moxi (or someone) pushes Tivo to make a good product even better.

Thanks for posting. I was totally wrong regarding both TiVo's grid guide's ability to go back in time and using a high-def TV's ZOOM to enhance legibility with either style of TiVo's EPG.

It's been awhile since I last used TiVo's grid guide. Has one of TiVo's software updates upgraded the grid guide's capabilities and the screen position of either style of guide when used with ZOOM? Now the grid guide is a contender and ZOOM works with both! :)

Coupled with the recent software upgrade enabling the guide while watching recordings, TiVo has finally recognized that everybody doesn't want to watch TV totally timeshifted.

TiVo and Moxi have significant philosophical differences regarding what a DVR should do and how it should work. TiVo is oriented toward watching most TV timeshifted while Moxi is better suited for a user who watches a mix of live and recorded shows.

More power to them both!

I've got both HDTiVo and Moxi and in my experience both are exceptionally quiet.

Soon after I got Moxi I turned off its front panel lights. Then a night or two later Moxi rebooted itself. At about 3:00a.m. on came the big blue MOXI which really lit up the room. At the time I didn't know what was happening or why. It only happened that one time, although I've since manually rebooted Moxi on purpose when configuring it with the dongle.
Before I returned my MOXI I discoverred that turning off the MOXI logo turned off the recording lights. This is in contradiction to the User Guide. MOXI tech support thanked me and said they would correct the User Guide.

A simple piece of black electrical tape can block out the MOXI logo and allow the record lights to be seen.

Thanks for posting. I was totally wrong regarding both TiVo's grid guide's ability to go back in time and using a high-def TV's ZOOM to enhance legibility with either style of TiVo's EPG.

It's been awhile since I last used TiVo's grid guide. Has one of TiVo's software updates upgraded the grid guide's capabilities and the screen position of either style of guide when used with ZOOM? Now the grid guide is a contender and ZOOM works with both! :)

Coupled with the recent software upgrade enabling the guide while watching recordings, TiVo has finally recognized that everybody doesn't want to watch TV totally timeshifted.

TiVo and Moxi have significant philosophical differences regarding what a DVR should do and how it should work. TiVo is oriented toward watching most TV timeshifted while Moxi is better suited for a user who watches a mix of live and recorded shows.

More power to them both!

Both are still options for me. Does anyone know how video quality match up in terms of things like audio sync, dropouts, pixellation, freezing for a second or two, etc?

I haven't had significant problems but have Moxi connected to an older 37" LCD flatscreen set via Component, not HDMI, as its HDMI/DVI connection presented flexibility issues. Since Moxi and TiVo are relatively expensive I'd strongly suggest trying each for 30 days, using their no questions money-back-guarantee before deciding. :)
--
I can confirm that Moxi's relatively long recording buffers (up to 4 hours) are related somehow to EPG info and are incremental with regard to their length. IOW, a Moxi buffer has the same start point for an hour or more and then the start point moves forward instantly. If a viewer is at the beginning of a buffer which jumps forward Moxi gives no warning and instantly it's an hour+ later. I recently experienced such a Moxi buffer drop from 3 hrs. 55 mins to 2 hrs. 35 mins.

Moxi's EPG doesn't display program data prior to the present unlike TiVo but does display the next program 5 minutes early much like TiVo. Whenever a program remains displayed in the EPG and also is contained in the buffer Moxi can easily turn it into a durable recording.

Based on my reading, it appears that Moxi can operate as a Media extender. Magnolia Hi-Fi said I should get an X-box to access Pic's, home movies etc from my computer to my Denon 3808. Will the Moxi do the same?

Also, I am trying to decide between a Pronto TSU9400 or a 4 Control system. I assume the Moxi DOES NOT allow full control of all your AV equipment including computer access via it's on-screen menu like the 2 above?

Thanks for any input. I emailed Moxi these same questions last week, have not heard back which is not a good sign in my opinion.

Thanks for any input. I emailed Moxi these same questions last week, have not heard back which is not a good sign in my opinion.That's odd. They responded immediately the one time I emailed them and others on this thread praise their CS.

Also, I am trying to decide between a Pronto TSU9400 or a 4 Control system. I assume the Moxi DOES NOT allow full control of all your AV equipment including computer access via it's on-screen menu like the 2 above?

Thanks for any input. I emailed Moxi these same questions last week, have not heard back which is not a good sign in my opinion.


Not sure if this is what you are asking, but check out the eControl feature:

http://moxi.com/us/features.html

I looked at the web site, but not sure all that Moxi does. Both the Control4 and Pronto TSU9400 provide on-screen AV control, Control4 uses your TV as the screen, Pronto uses the remote LCD. If you want to watch TV, you push TV and then the next screen shows you your favorite channels, you are also able to control your DVD player, control your PC etc, not sure moxi can control everything and display it on the TV screen as well. I emailed customer service again and will find out. I also asked if they have any dealers in the Seattle area who either sell or install the product.




Not sure if this is what you are asking, but check out the eControl feature:

http://moxi.com/us/features.html

I haven't had significant problems but have Moxi connected to an older 37" LCD flatscreen set via Component, not HDMI, as its HDMI/DVI connection presented flexibility issues. Since Moxi and TiVo are relatively expensive I'd strongly suggest trying each for 30 days, using their no questions money-back-guarantee before deciding. :)
--
I can confirm that Moxi's relatively long recording buffers (up to 4 hours) are related somehow to EPG info and are incremental with regard to their length. IOW, a Moxi buffer has the same start point for an hour or more and then the start point moves forward instantly. If a viewer is at the beginning of a buffer which jumps forward Moxi gives no warning and instantly it's an hour+ later. I recently experienced such a Moxi buffer drop from 3 hrs. 55 mins to 2 hrs. 35 mins.

Moxi's EPG doesn't display program data prior to the present unlike TiVo but does display the next program 5 minutes early much like TiVo. Whenever a program remains displayed in the EPG and also is contained in the buffer Moxi can easily turn it into a durable recording.

I remember teh buffer jump on the 9012. Very annoying. Not as annoying as chasing the buffer when it is short.

I've got another week to go on my 30 day money back guarantee.

fallingwater,
Just curious if the Moxi was good enough to keep around or did you send it back?

Moxi is definitely 'good enough to keep around'! For me it affords the best overall TV viewing experience currently available. TiVo is still the 500 lb. gorilla in the room, just no longer the gorilla (of) my dreams! Moxi's reliability and stability appear to be within the same order of magnitude as TiVo's but Moxi offers a different viewing experience.

I own and use both TiVo's S3 and Moxi without CableCARDs. Both DVRs recommend using CCs for the best viewing experience but Moxi provides a relatively easy way for a user to manually map unscrambled QAM channels without a CC.

A prospective first time buyer of either would do well to take advantage of both Moxi and TiVo's 30 day money-back-return offers, preferably at the same time! Then a user might become passionate about whichever one they choose!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoiMDj9bSE8&feature=related

I'd highly recommend requesting Moxi's analog tuning dongle when first ordering. It's available at no extra charge except S&H which they waived for me.

Moxi unfortunately doesn't include its User Guide with a new Moxi but instead makes it available online. Moxi's guide isn't as complete and concise as TiVo's but nonetheless is a must for anyone seriously considering Moxi. Moxi requires a short steep learning curve for a new user to get accustomed to how intuitive it really is.
http://moxi.com/support_docs.jsp

Just bought the TIVO HD XL from Amazon for $500.

Just got the new issue of Home Theater where the Moxi got a huge rave review, and is rated as a "Top Pick" and must have devide. In the review, they mention that Digeo already provides first level support for over 2.5 million digital cable providers, and that total is quickly growing.

That doesn't sound to me like you need to be concerned about their survival as a company. Also, they are owned and bankrolled by one of the founding Microsoft group, so no lack of future funding likely either.


John


Rumor has it that they don't have many cable operators as customers. There is Charter and BendBroadband.

Any one else? And are they being deployed?

I'm very excited about this box, but would like some certainty that they are shipping in some reasonable volume. I don't see that the Amazon and AVS crowd is going to do it. If nothing else, it would hopefully motivate other providers to pick up quantity. For example, if TWC started buying some, I could either get one through them, or get my own box. (I would opt for the latter as I see TWC boxes as being crippled.)

The nice thing about Tivo is their installed base and collection of IP that makes them reasonably stable.

Just got the new issue of Home Theater where the Moxi got a huge rave review, and is rated as a "Top Pick" and must have devide. In the review, they mention that Digeo already provides first level support for over 2.5 million digital cable providers, and that total is quickly growing.

That doesn't sound to me like you need to be concerned about their survival as a company. Also, they are owned and bankrolled by one of the founding Microsoft group, so no lack of future funding likely either.
John

I came close to getting it but got the Tivo instead. Mainly came down to less risk. Its not clear if the 2.5 million include old Adelphia people like me who can no longer get it through their cableco.

Fair enough.

Are you eligible for TiVo's MSD? What TiVo Service plan did you choose?

Just got the new issue of Home Theater where the Moxi got a huge rave

thanks John. The review is online too:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/pvr/digeo_moxi_hd_dvr/

The review got it wrong regarding Moxi and CableCARDS. Moxi does recommend CableCARDS but provides very credible QAM mapping when used without them.

thanks John. The review is online too:
http://www.hometheatermag.com/pvr/digeo_moxi_hd_dvr/
He's coming off of a cableCo DVR, so anything looks good in comparison. But he gave the Moxi 4 stars for 'value', which is ridiculous. An equivalent upgraded Tivo HD (500GB) could be had today for at least $150 less than the fixed (no retail competition) $800 price of the Moxi.

Amazon.com's price for a 1TB HDD TiVo HD XL is $488.73 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 500 GB HDD Moxi is $799 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 160GB TiVo HD is $234.98 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 500GB My DVR Expander HDD is 102.79 with free shipping.
(All prices above are subject to sales tax.)

Amazon's Marketplace seller Electronic Expo's price for 160GB TiVo HD is $217.27 with 12.99 shipping for a total of $230.26. They don't charge sales tax except for NJ buyers.

TiVo offers Lifetime Service for a buyer's first TiVo for $399 and $299 for additional TiVos.

A digital savvy multiple TiVo user can replace a HDTiVo's stock 160GB HDD with a 1TB internal HDD for less (?) than $100 and get Lifetime Service for $299 for a total cost of approx. $630. But that's not an equitable comparison of TiVo vs. Moxi value.

A typical new buyer's cost for HDTiVo XL with Lifetime TiVo Service would be around $890 (plus tax).

A typical new buyer's cost for Moxi with 1TB storage would be around $905 (plus tax).

To me, the $15 is a wash. And I get the Moxi UI, to boot.

I came close to getting it but got the Tivo instead. Mainly came down to less risk. Its not clear if the 2.5 million include old Adelphia people like me who can no longer get it through their cableco.

Getting it from Amazon, its partway across the country. I don't know what the MSD is. I'm thinking about getting lifetime service.

Getting it from Amazon, its partway across the country. I don't know what the MSD is. I'm thinking about getting lifetime service.MSD = multi-service discount.

TiVo discounts every subscription after the first. Each TiVo after the first used to be $6.95/mo, but last year it was raised to $9.95/mo, $99/yr, or $299 lifetime for new activations. [That's how those people on ebay are able to sell lifetime subscriptions for $330.]

Amazon.com's price for a 1TB HDD TiVo HD XL is $488.73 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 500 GB HDD Moxi is $799 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 160GB TiVo HD is $234.98 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 500GB My DVR Expander HDD is 102.79 with free shipping.
(All prices above are subject to sales tax.)

Amazon's Marketplace seller Electronic Expo's price for 160GB TiVo HD is $217.27 with 12.99 shipping for a total of $230.26. They don't charge sales tax except for NJ buyers.

TiVo offers Lifetime Service for a buyer's first TiVo for $399 and $299 for additional TiVos.

A digital savvy multiple TiVo user can replace a HDTiVo's stock 160GB HDD with a 1TB internal HDD for less (?) than $100 and get Lifetime Service for $299 for a total cost of approx. $630. But that's not an equitable comparison of TiVo vs. Moxi value.

A typical new buyer's cost for HDTiVo XL with Lifetime TiVo Service would be around $890 (plus tax).

A typical new buyer's cost for Moxi with 1TB storage would be around $905 (plus tax).

I would add that one can try out the Tivo on a monthly basis for $250ish + a few months subscription. Not so much money down the drain if it doesn't work out. Also, Tivo's are potentially have much greater liquidity in the used market.

I would add that one can try out the Tivo on a monthly basis for $250ish + a few months subscription.You used to be able to do that, but not anymore; now you've only got 37 days. Even a monthly subscription now requires a one-year commitment.

With TiVo, you have the 7-day trial without a subscription. Once you subscribe, you have another 30 days to cancel before you are locked in for a year. After the first year, you are on month-to-month with no commitment.

Amazon limits customers to a 30-day return, so as a practical matter, the evaluation periods on the TiVo and Moxi are exactly the same.

Good info, I'd love to here if Moxi gets a major deal or renewal with a big cableco or satellite company. The Moxi I had was a quality product, the blame with me lies with TWC. They were always late on updates, they crippled expansion, they ultimately cut off the guide.

Like I say, the Tivo tends to be recyclable with some depreciation. I probably spend more on beer in a year. (I also like good beer, not yellow label OEM light lager.)

I haven't had significant problems but have Moxi connected to an older 37" LCD flatscreen set via Component, not HDMI, as its HDMI/DVI connection presented flexibility issues. Since Moxi and TiVo are relatively expensive I'd strongly suggest trying each for 30 days, using their no questions money-back-guarantee before deciding. http://www.*****************/trafficreport/img/3721/k08t1221bbuq/gdsmile.gif
--
I can confirm that Moxi's relatively long recording buffers (up to 4 hours) are related somehow to EPG info and are incremental with regard to their length. IOW, a Moxi buffer has the same start point for an hour or more and then the start point moves forward instantly. If a viewer is at the beginning of a buffer which jumps forward Moxi gives no warning and instantly it's an hour+ later. I recently experienced such a Moxi buffer drop from 3 hrs. 55 mins to 2 hrs. 35 mins.

Moxi's EPG doesn't display program data prior to the present unlike TiVo but does display the next program 5 minutes early much like TiVo. Whenever a program remains displayed in the EPG and also is contained in the buffer Moxi can easily turn it into a durable recording.

Wow, you really have a very accurate feedback there.
Thanks for the info, I think I'll try them first before deciding.

A digital savvy multiple TiVo user can replace a HDTiVo's stock 160GB HDD with a 1TB internal HDD for less (?) than $100 and get Lifetime Service for $299 for a total cost of approx. $630. But that's not an equitable comparison of TiVo vs. Moxi value.

You're right. An equitable comparison for a *new Tivo user* would be to buy the Tivo HD at $209 (Amazon price late yesterday), then add a $60 500GB drive and the $330 fleabay seller lifetime service. Bingo, an equivalent box for $599, i.e., $200 less than the overpriced Moxi. You gotta love free markets.

I haven't had significant problems but have Moxi connected to an older 37" LCD flatscreen set via Component, not HDMI, as its HDMI/DVI connection presented flexibility issues. Since Moxi and TiVo are relatively expensive I'd strongly suggest trying each for 30 days, using their no questions money-back-guarantee before deciding. :)
--
I can confirm that Moxi's relatively long recording buffers (up to 4 hours) are related somehow to EPG info and are incremental with regard to their length. IOW, a Moxi buffer has the same start point for an hour or more and then the start point moves forward instantly. If a viewer is at the beginning of a buffer which jumps forward Moxi gives no warning and instantly it's an hour+ later. I recently experienced such a Moxi buffer drop from 3 hrs. 55 mins to 2 hrs. 35 mins.

Moxi's EPG doesn't display program data prior to the present unlike TiVo but does display the next program 5 minutes early much like TiVo. Whenever a program remains displayed in the EPG and also is contained in the buffer Moxi can easily turn it into a durable recording.

Wow, you really have a very accurate feedback there.
Thanks for the info, I think I'll try them first before deciding.

I've noticed lately that Moxi's recording buffers have been shrinking. Possibly there was a software update as I caught Moxi rebooting in the middle of the night a couple (?) of weeks ago. Buffers now appear to average 1.5 hours, both for standard-def and hi-def, but that's just my impression.

I also rescanned Moxi's channel line-up which required a reboot. Used without a CableCARD Moxi (and TiVo) receives every channel that a Comcast DTA provides. (Unlike TiVo) each channel Moxi receives can then be mapped fairly easily to the same channel number that Comcast uses. But it still takes time. Unless a user sees obvious discrepancies or omissions I'd avoid rescanning just on a whim.

.... (Unlike TiVo) each channel Moxi receives can then be mapped fairly easily to the same channel number that Comcast uses. But it still takes time. Unless a user sees obvious discrepancies or omissions I'd avoid rescanning just on a whim.

I was wondering if the Moxi maps to the Cable Co. channel assignment. So are you able to direct tune without using the decimals? The Sony DVR allows you to map the clear QAM channels in the guide but you still have to deal with the decimals in the channel (i.e. 104.1 instead of just channel 104).

Amazon.com's price for a 1TB HDD TiVo HD XL is $488.73 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 500 GB HDD Moxi is $799 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 160GB TiVo HD is $234.98 with free shipping.

Amazon.com's price for a 500GB My DVR Expander HDD is 102.79 with free shipping.
(All prices above are subject to sales tax.)

Amazon's Marketplace seller Electronic Expo's price for 160GB TiVo HD is $217.27 with 12.99 shipping for a total of $230.26. They don't charge sales tax except for NJ buyers.

TiVo offers Lifetime Service for a buyer's first TiVo for $399 and $299 for additional TiVos.

A digital savvy multiple TiVo user can replace a HDTiVo's stock 160GB HDD with a 1TB internal HDD for less (?) than $100 and get Lifetime Service for $299 for a total cost of approx. $630. But that's not an equitable comparison of TiVo vs. Moxi value.

A typical new buyer's cost for HDTiVo XL with Lifetime TiVo Service would be around $890 (plus tax).

A typical new buyer's cost for Moxi with 1TB storage would be around $905 (plus tax).

You're right. An equitable comparison for a *new Tivo user* would be to buy the Tivo HD at $209 (Amazon price late yesterday), then add a $60 500GB drive and the $330 fleabay seller lifetime service. Bingo, an equivalent box for $599, i.e., $200 less than the overpriced Moxi. You gotta love free markets.

IMHO you and are in complete disagreement regarding what an 'equitable comparison' consists of.

When buyer must search for, buy, format and install by opening the case and thus legally voiding the warranty, a component in a brand new product to 'improve' its functionality, and then must search for and buy service from an unauthorized source, that's not an equitable comparison of value.

If a new buyer wanted a hi-def TiVo with cheap expanded storage s/he would most likely buy TiVo HD along with My DVR Expander for ease of installation and to maintain TiVo's warranty. Used in 'Like New' condition external HDDs can be cheap from Amazon Marketplace sellers:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0018O77Q2/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&condition=used

Please provide a link to back your assertion of Amazon's price for HDTiVo. Amazon's cart yields a much higher asking price:
http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-TCD652160-Digital-Video-Recorder/dp/B000RZDBM2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1242830616&sr=1-1

I was wondering if the Moxi maps to the Cable Co. channel assignment. So are you able to direct tune without using the decimals? The Sony DVR allows you to map the clear QAM channels in the guide but you still have to deal with the decimals in the channel (i.e. 104.1 instead of just channel 104).

True, but digital TVGOS' system provides more options than Moxi. Because of its 'one-size-for-an-entire-region' TVGOS includes many more channels and listings than Moxi's ZIP code based listing and more often than not uses PSIP data employing OTA equivalent channel numbers. TVGOS also provides for changing the order of channels within the line-up. Moxi's system is easier to use but maps from only one line-up.

For most people it probably makes little difference but where I live it does. Comcast provides more unscrambled channels than they offer from their STB's here. With Moxi I've got to choose a line-up by ZIP; with Sony I can get listings for almost everything available, including Canadian locals and Tacoma's PBS station.

One other advantage Sony and TiVo offer over Moxi is that both provide settings which enable sending an anamorphic standard-def signal to a DVD recorder while Moxi and Comcast's hi-def DVR or STB don't.

Has anyone heard anything about the arrival of the Moxi Mate? The best I've heard from them was "very soon" for multi room and a sales pitch to just buy two HD DVRs :(. Thanks.

Not that we wanted to be, but with the local Comcast provider is "upgrading" the basic+expanded channel lineup relocating analog 35 and above to the digital band (700+) ranges; the several (okay - 7:D) VCR/DVR/PVR devices we use for time shifting are useless for these networks (FX,TNT, TBS, A&E, etc).

It seems the Moxi is a good candidate (HD is not the driver) as a device we can use to fill this (unwanted) void created by this change. (Albeit, a CableCard - "M"?? - needs to be rented from Comcast.)

I have not read this entire thread as yet but I hope to learn from the current owners (and it appears a few detractors :o) about this unit. At $799 a piece it appears a might pricey but I have seen the math applied to the TiVO offering and it appears this may be the better value (on paper).

One quick question (prior to the research I definitely have in front of me) I have is can the Moxi record two channels at the same time??? With 7 devices to offset (and yes, sometimes 3-4 of these are recording at the same time :o) it will get a might expensive to get back to the capabilities we had before the "evil" cable company made this "upgrade".

Thanks!!!!

One quick question (prior to the research I definitely have in front of me) I have is can the Moxi record two channels at the same time??? With 7 devices to offset (and yes, sometimes 3-4 of these are recording at the same time :o) it will get a might expensive to get back to the capabilities we had before the "evil" cable company made this "upgrade".

Thanks!!!!

The Moxi can record two digital channels at the same time and a THIRD analog channel if using the free USB analog tuner adapter.

The Moxi can record two digital channels at the same time and a THIRD analog channel if using the free USB analog tuner adapter.
After posting the above I did jump over to the Moxi site and did see in the FAQ about dual tuner (HD to boot!).

Thanks....

Did not see any reference to a "free USB" tuner adapter..... Sounds cool..... Where is there more info on that??? Did I miss it on their site (not too hard to do...).

http://moxi.com/us/faq.html

Compatibility

10. Is MOXI compatible with analog as well as digital cable?

The MOXI HD DVR is optimized to work with Digital Cable service. For the support of analog cable channels, you would need an accessory that we provide at no charge except for the shipping: an analog dongle that plugs into the USB port on the MOXI HD DVR. Using this, you will have full DVR support, as well as the other features that the MOXI HD DVR provides, but would only be able to record a single analog show at a time. The HD channels will be discovered by the MOXI automatically, and you would have the capability to record two shows at a time.

I just read the review in Home Theater Mag...

I am on Comcast in Portland, OR, and wonder if the Moxi HD works here and do they know what an M Card is? Also, is it correct that the Buffer is more than an hour even in HD? My Comcast DVR's are about 20 minutes, and many times we sure wish it was a lot more!!

Does anyone know if the audio outputs are all active? I would like to run optical to a small receiver for Dolby if a show is worth it, but for normal stuff, 2 channel to the TV would be fine and I can keep the Receiver off. This is what I do now, with HDMI to the TV.

OH, for extra credit, does Netflix streaming work and is it HD?

I am surprised that for this big push of a new product, Moxi does not seem to have a phone number to call so you can ask questions...at least I do not see it online.

The only thing that looks weird is the channel listing. It seems to only show the current time and not a grid as the Comcast DVR's show...is that correct?

TIA

I am on Comcast in Portland, OR, and wonder if the Moxi HD works here and do they know what an M Card is?You can request a M-CARD. If they don't know what you are talking about, just ask for a CableCard.

A M-CARD is type of CableCard, and it is the only CableCard type still in widespread use. With rare exception, that s what you get whenever you request a CableCard (regardless of provider). M-CARDs have "M-CARD" written in large bold letters across the card.

The old single-stream cards (sometimes referred to as S-CARDs) were discontinued about 15 months ago.

Also, is it correct that the Buffer is more than an hour even in HD? My Comcast DVR's are about 20 minutes, and many times we sure wish it was a lot more!!Yes. The Moxi has a 1.5 hour HD buffer per tuner, for a total HD buffer of 3.0 hours.

OH, for extra credit, does Netflix streaming work and is it HD?The Moxi does not have native support for Netflix. It is only able to support Netflix SD when your PC is on and running the PlayOn software. Netflix HD is not available through PC software, and therefore not supported on the Moxi. I listed that as one of its disadvantages in my earlier comparison (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16335482#post16335482).

I am surprised that for this big push of a new product, Moxi does not seem to have a phone number to call so you can ask questions...at least I do not see it online.Moxi has an online FAQ (http://moxi.com/us/faq.html) and is very responsive to email questions (http://moxi.com/us/contact.html). They've responded to all of my questions within 48 hours.

The only thing that looks weird is the channel listing. It seems to only show the current time and not a grid as the Comcast DVR's show...is that correct?That's correct. Moxi does not offer the option of a traditional, grid-based program guide. Some people like the Moxi's EPG and others do not.

You can see how the navigation and guide works in these videos: Demo for Engadget (http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/184/6.792) | CrunchGear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IkfygsJ6J0&fmt=18) | Moxi.com (http://moxi.com/us/features.html).

At this point, every DVR involves some tradeoffs. The main tradeoff, relative to the Comcast DVR, is obviously the lack of VOD. Personally, I find VOD to be a poor substitute for a lack of DVR storage, so I don't see the same need for it with a high-capacity DVR. The Moxi is equipped with a 500GB drive (75 HD hours), and you can add up to 2TB more, for a total of 375+ HD hours.

The Moxi has a 1.5 hour HD buffer per tuner, for a total HD buffer of 3.0 hours.

Moxi does not offer the option of a traditional, grid-based program guide. Some people like the Moxi's EPG and others do not.

You can see how the navigation and guide works in these videos: Demo for Engadget (http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/184/6.792) | CrunchGear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IkfygsJ6J0&fmt=18) | Moxi.com (http://moxi.com/us/features.html).

At this point, every DVR involves some tradeoffs. The main tradeoff, relative to the Comcast DVR, is obviously the lack of VOD. Personally, I find VOD to be a poor substitute for a lack of DVR storage, so I don't see the same need for it with a high-capacity DVR. The Moxi is equipped with a 500GB drive (75 HD hours), and you can add up to 2TB more, for a total of 375+ HD hours.

Moxi's recording buffer is somewhat different from most others. The beginning of Moxi's buffer doesn't move forward a given number of minutes behind realtime but rather in stepped intervals which appear to be somewhat (?) dependent on the EPG data for the station. IOW, a longer program gets a longer buffer. Moxi's shortest digital recording buffer I've encountered was approx. 1.25 hours long right after a stepped interval but the average appears to be 1.5 hours extending to just under 2 hours. All buffers appear to be treated the same whether hi-def or standard-def, whether generated from digital or analog channels (from Moxi's analog dongle). IOW, buffer lengths aren't dependent on bitrates.

I mapped Moxi's analog dongle to VOD Channel 1 which is routinely blocked into 4 hour intervals so I've gotten recording buffers over 5 hours long from the dongle (but without EPG data of course for the actual channel being recorded from a standard-def Comcast STB with VOD access on Ch. 1.)

Moxi's EPG doesn't show programs which have ended, unlike TiVo. Moxi will turn a buffer segment into a recorded program as long as the program is still current in its EPG. Once, after starting to record from a stale (relatively long) ongoing buffer, the buffer's beginning stepped forward and the recording stopped at that point because there was no buffer to record from. If a program which has already ended is being watched from Moxi's buffer, Moxi will offer to record it (when its INFO button is pushed) but actually won't (because it can't!)

Moxi's EPG is an integral part of its unique GUI, unlike any other DVR or STB I'm aware of. When the MOXI button is pushed Moxi enters its GUI at whatever function it left the last time. It's different looking EPG is remarkably similiar in the way it actually functions to TiVo's non-grid Live Guide.

Moxi's method of adding HDD storage is more flexible than TiVo's because any number of external HDDs can be swapped out and back without losing recordings unlike TiVo's system which requires a single permanently paired HDD. A HDD recorded from a Moxi must be reconnected to that same Moxi for its recordings to be accessible.

Moxi offers a different DVR philosophy than TiVo's. Moxi is a better choice when a user routinely watches both 'live' and timeshifted programs. TiVo is optimized for timeshifting, and offers a mini-Google of TV search capabilities for finding programs to timeshift.

CrunchGear's video offers a very long critical revue of Moxi from his digitally 'hip' twenty-something perspective. Too bad, but still informative if a viewer can get past his juvenile affectations and amateurish production values.

I have not read this entire thread as yet but I hope to learn from the current owners (and it appears a few detractors :o) about this unit. At $799 a piece it appears a might pricey but I have seen the math applied to the TiVO offering and it appears this may be the better value (on paper).
If you're smart enough to come to AVS, you should be smart enough to do some research and find out how to get a 500GB Tivo HD for at least $150 less than the Moxi, so I'm not sure about your interpretation of the math.

But I know it's terrifying to some to unscrew cases and move components around, so if you're one of those folks, feel free to pay extra for the Moxi.

Don't get me wrong - I like the fact that there's another box out there, but on a value basis, for a reasonably savvy consumer, the Moxi is no competitor to the Tivo. Its reliability is unproven, has many important Tivo features missing at this time, and it costs more because there's no retail competition.

HDTiVo is available from Amazon for 241.45 with free shipping. My DVR Expander is available for $119.99 with free shipping. TiVo Lifetime Service is available from TiVo for $399. Moxi is available for $799 with free shipping. On that basis your numbers don't add up.

The only way your numbers add up is if a replacement internal 500 GB HDD properly formatted can be obtained for $60; TiVo Lifetime Service is purchased on eBay for $330+ and a new TiVo buyer doesn't mind screwing around with a brand new TiVo and voiding the warranty.

But the best reason for buying TiVo isn't because it's cheap; it isn't. The best reason for buying TiVo is that it fits a user's needs better than anything else available, which for many prospective users it does.

Moxi may also fit a user's needs better than anything else. If commitment to an expensive DVR is anathema to a user, even a cable DVR may fit their needs best.

I like Moxi. It fits my overall needs, perhaps more completely than TiVo does, but each DVR has specific features at which it excels. Moxi operates within the same order of magnitude of reliability as TiVo. It offers practically unlimited expandability with its system of exchangable external HDD's.

Even Sony's discontinued but widely available single tuner hi-def DVRs perform better at some things than either TiVo or Moxi. However they are suitable relatively cheap DVRs only when a user knows that digital TVGOS is available.

Thanks, Guys, that was helpful.

One thing that was not answered was my question about the audio outputs all being live. I asked if I could have the Optical AND the 2 ch Stereo being live at the same time. ie: Dolby and my small receiver being on if the program could benefit from it, but ALSO to have a 2 ch stereo cable going to the TV if I did not want/need to turn the receiver on and just use the TV speakers for the news.

Regarding the buffer...if we come in late, and Leno is on, can we back up to the 11 o'clock news, or will they flush the buffer when the new show (The Tonight show) starts?

One other thing, the Comcast DVR is driving us crazy with this...how good is the series recording? On my Comcast HD DVR I set something like HOUSE (Actually I do this with all series recordings) to only record NEW shows. Then we will miss a show. Why? Because, sometimes the show is not flagged as NEW. Is this better with the MOXI?

I know that the diskless Moxi is not out yet, but will this stream HD from the main MOXI? They do not say. I hope it is way less than the $800 as only a few hundred less would not be worth it!

The only way your numbers add up is if a replacement internal 500 GB HDD properly formatted can be obtained for $60; TiVo Lifetime Service is purchased on eBay for $330+ and a new TiVo buyer doesn't mind screwing around with a brand new TiVo and voiding the warranty.

Give that man a cigar! Notice how I highlighted 'reasonably savvy consumer' before? ;)
The warranty is very limited as it only covers everything for 90 days, so if you care just wait to do the upgrade until then. After that it's parts only, but 90%+ of the time it will be a failed hard drive if the box doesn't die within 90 days, and as you correctly point out can be obtained for $60. I think Tivo charges a min. $50 labor charge after 90 days, so that's mostly a wash.

I agree that the Moxi vs. Tivo debate is about more than just the cost, but I was simply making the point that on a value for the money basis, it's a lot easier to justify the Tivo if you don't mind doing (very little) work.

The reason why I mentioned the Moxi's unproven reliability was more about the software than the box itself - you have mentioned unexpected reboots in your time with it, as have others. The software appears to be rough around the edges from the few reviews that I've seen (from a usability standpoint) as well. And the guide interface and lack of a grid guide are disappointing to me.

In the year that I've had my Tivo HD, I've had two reboots, both of which only happened when I was messing around deep in the menus. For day-to-day usage, it's been rock-solid.

Thanks, Guys, that was helpful.

One thing that was not answered was my question about the audio outputs all being live. I asked if I could have the Optical AND the 2 ch Stereo being live at the same time. ie: Dolby and my small receiver being on if the program could benefit from it, but ALSO to have a 2 ch stereo cable going to the TV if I did not want/need to turn the receiver on and just use the TV speakers for the news.

Regarding the buffer...if we come in late, and Leno is on, can we back up to the 11 o'clock news, or will they flush the buffer when the new show (The Tonight show) starts?

One other thing, the Comcast DVR is driving us crazy with this...how good is the series recording? On my Comcast HD DVR I set something like HOUSE (Actually I do this with all series recordings) to only record NEW shows. Then we will miss a show. Why? Because, sometimes the show is not flagged as NEW. Is this better with the MOXI?

I know that the diskless Moxi is not out yet, but will this stream HD from the main MOXI? They do not say. I hope it is way less than the $800 as only a few hundred less would not be worth it!

You can back up in Moxi's buffer to a previous show but if it's over you can watch it but not turn it into a recording.

Here's what Moxi says about the Moxi Mate: http://moxi.com/us/faq.html#features

26. Does MOXI have multi-room capability?
...At the recent Consumer Electronics Show, we showed our multi-room client product, but haven't announced the release date or price and will do that very soon. When we introduce this product, all the capabilities of the MOXI HD DVR can be accessed in other rooms including the recordings. No time consuming transfers as with TiVo. Recordings would be streamed over your home networks for instant access...

I don't have definitive answers to your other questions, just BS opinions! ;)

Give that man a cigar! Notice how I highlighted 'reasonably savvy consumer' before? ;)
The warranty is very limited as it only covers everything for 90 days, so if you care just wait to do the upgrade until then. After that it's parts only, but 90%+ of the time it will be a failed hard drive if the box doesn't die within 90 days, and as you correctly point out can be obtained for $60. I think Tivo charges a min. $50 labor charge after 90 days, so that's mostly a wash.

I agree that the Moxi vs. Tivo debate is about more than just the cost, but I was simply making the point that on a value for the money basis, it's a lot easier to justify the Tivo if you don't mind doing (very little) work.

The reason why I mentioned the Moxi's unproven reliability was more about the software than the box itself - you have mentioned unexpected reboots in your time with it, as have others. The software appears to be rough around the edges from the few reviews that I've seen (from a usability standpoint) as well. And the guide interface and lack of a grid guide are disappointing to me.

In the year that I've had my Tivo HD, I've had two reboots, both of which only happened when I was messing around deep in the menus. For day-to-day usage, it's been rock-solid.

Interesting that you continually post on the Moxi thread instead of on the TiVo threads about how superior you believe TiVo is to Moxi. :rolleyes:

I appreciate TiVo a lot better than TiVo fan people who push TiVo incessantly. I can imagine the reception I'd get if I kept posting about Moxi on the TiVo threads. :mad:

Actually there are a couple of threads at the TiVo Community Forum where it's totally appropriate to ballyhoo TiVo over Moxi. But if a newcomer visits TiVo Community Forum it's likely s/he'd get the false impression that TiVo fugs up all the time judging from the incessant bitching about TiVo that routinely goes on there. :p

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/index.php?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413204 This one is yours!
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=424412

I'm not posting here to bash the Moxi or be a Tivo fanboy, I'm just trying to inject a little reality into the discussion. I sincerely hope the Moxi succeeds and keeps improving their software to the point that Tivo has to respond to be competitive. If cablecard tuners for PCs get cheap enough, I might ditch them both and roll my own PC.

But I don't see that happening as long as the Moxi costs $800 - ReplayTV already tried the 'bundle the sub in the price' model and it didn't work for them, nor will it for Moxi.

Just MHO, I'm glad that you like it.

ReplayTVs still work and IMHO even now provide a better EPG than either TiVo or Moxi.

Moxi and TiVo have different philosophies about the way a DVR should work. That difference is by far the most important issue when deciding to buy one, not relatively small differences in price.

TiVo has marketed its service under a variety of plans which have sometimes been overly complicated. Lifetime Service at different prices is a good example. Recently TiVo went back to offering Lifetime Service plans after almost everyone predicted it was gone for good. Despite hanging in for 10 years TiVo has had a difficult time and its ongoing operations still aren't consistently profitable.

ReplayTVs still work and IMHO even now provide a better EPG than either TiVo or Moxi.

Moxi and TiVo have different philosophies about the way a DVR should work. That difference is by far the most important issue when deciding to buy one, not relatively small differences in price.

TiVo has marketed its service under a variety of plans which have sometimes been overly complicated. Lifetime Service at different prices is a good example. Recently TiVo went back to offering Lifetime Service plans after almost everyone predicted it was gone for good. Despite hanging in for 10 years TiVo has had a difficult time and its ongoing operations still aren't consistently profitable.

I STILL have 3 ReplayTV's and they have all worked for YEARS now. I forget I even have them connected, but when I do look the guide is current. Every once in a while, if I do not get a show on the HD Comcast DVR, I will go to Poolpi and it gets sent to me.

What a shame that they never came out with an HD Replay...it was WAY ahead of TiVo...for me anyway!

You can back up in Moxi's buffer to a previous show but if it's over you can watch it but not turn it into a recording.

Here's what Moxi says about the Moxi Mate: http://moxi.com/us/faq.html#features

26. Does MOXI have multi-room capability?
...At the recent Consumer Electronics Show, we showed our multi-room client product, but haven't announced the release date or price and will do that very soon. When we introduce this product, all the capabilities of the MOXI HD DVR can be accessed in other rooms including the recordings. No time consuming transfers as with TiVo. Recordings would be streamed over your home networks for instant access...

I don't have definitive answers to your other questions, just BS opinions! ;)

Yes, I did see that, BUT, they never say that the streamed video will be HD. FIOS TV also says you can stream, but it is SD only even with HD units.

Yes, I did see that, BUT, they never say that the streamed video will be HD. FIOS TV also says you can stream, but it is SD only even with HD units.
Moxi will allow streamed HD to their extender; that capability is slated for late summer.

FiOS added HD streaming capability [to its Motorola HD STBs] about six months ago.

Moxi will allow streamed HD to their extender; that capability is slated for late summer.

FiOS added HD streaming capability [to its Motorola HD STBs] about six months ago.

Great, this is good to know!

I was under the impression that the Moxi cannot stream HD movies as the Play-on software does not allow it, say from Netflix or Amazon if they sign them up?

Or are you referring to HD tv streaming

I was under the impression that the Moxi cannot stream HD movies as the Play-on software does not allow it, say from Netflix or Amazon if they sign them up?The PlayOn software can only stream what your PC can access, and PCs cannot access Netflix HD or Amazon Unbox HD movies.

Or are you referring to HD tv streamingMoxi announced plans to release a a "Moxi Mate" extender for remote viewing of DVR recordings in another rooms. This tunerless box will allow you to view any SD or HD recording stored on the Moxi DVR. It "should cost under $100" and be available by summer's end.

Of course, both the Moxi DVR and the "Moxi Mate" extender must be on a 100Mbps ethernet or high-speed 802.11n / MoCA / Powerline AV network to stream HD recordings.

According to the tivo site, it can access netflix and amazon HD, how does it do it? can you buy software for the computer so Moxi can access HD movies?


The PlayOn software can only stream what your PC can access, and PCs cannot access Netflix HD or Amazon Unbox HD movies.

Moxi announced plans to release a a "Moxi Mate" extender for remote viewing of DVR recordings in another rooms. This tunerless box will allow you to view any SD or HD recording stored on the Moxi DVR. It "should cost under $100" and be available by summer's end.

Of course, both the Moxi DVR and the "Moxi Mate" extender must be on a 100Mbps ethernet or high-speed 802.11n / MoCA / Powerline AV network to stream HD recordings.

Moxi announced plans to release a a "Moxi Mate" extender for remote viewing of DVR recordings in another rooms. This tunerless box will allow you to view any SD or HD recording stored on the Moxi DVR. It "should cost under $100" and be available by summer's end.

Of course, both the Moxi DVR and the "Moxi Mate" extender must be on a 100Mbps ethernet or high-speed 802.11n / MoCA / Powerline AV network to stream HD recordings.

And that's the kicker!

ReplayTV opted for 'live' standard-def streaming between two ReplayTVs connected via a LAN while TiVo chose a system that transfers files before they're available for viewing. TiVo's system is of course much slower, BUT, unless a transfer fails completely, it results in a perfect copy. ReplayTV's system, while theoretically better, resulted in picture glitches when (I) used (it) on an wired ethernet LAN.

MOXI's similiar system for hi-def transfers better work perfectly!

According to the tivo site, it can access netflix and amazon HD, how does it do it?

It communicates directly with those services via the Internet. It's got the appropriate software, developed in concert with the companies that run those services, to do it.

can you buy software for the computer so Moxi can access HD movies?

Far as I know, there's currently no way on a PC to access either service. So, until that changes... no.

So the Moxi mate will not allow the 2nd TV to watch live TV, just recorded TV correct. If so, then you would have to have anyother turner (cable box) correct


The PlayOn software can only stream what your PC can access, and PCs cannot access Netflix HD or Amazon Unbox HD movies.

Moxi announced plans to release a a "Moxi Mate" extender for remote viewing of DVR recordings in another rooms. This tunerless box will allow you to view any SD or HD recording stored on the Moxi DVR. It "should cost under $100" and be available by summer's end.

Of course, both the Moxi DVR and the "Moxi Mate" extender must be on a 100Mbps ethernet or high-speed 802.11n / MoCA / Powerline AV network to stream HD recordings.

And that's the kicker!

ReplayTV opted for 'live' standard-def streaming between two ReplayTVs connected via a LAN while TiVo chose a system that transfers files before they're available for viewing. TiVo's system is of course much slower, BUT, unless a transfer fails completely, it results in a perfect copy. ReplayTV's system, while theoretically better, resulted in picture glitches when (I) used (it) on an wired ethernet LAN.

MOXI's similiar system for hi-def transfers better work perfectly!
I had two ReplayTVs on a wired network and multi-room streaming was glitch-free as long as you didn't use high quality for recording. But that was with slow processor boxes and was SD, not HD. So I too am curious if the Moxi will be able to provide a seamless experience for a max-rate 1080i HD stream between two boxes.

Tivo's system is a poor substitute for streaming, IMO, because you can't transfer copy-protected shows, and you don't need another copy on the other box anyway.

So the Moxi mate will not allow the 2nd TV to watch live TV, just recorded TV correct. If so, then you would have to have anyother turner (cable box) correct
Correct, but buying the MoxiMate and renting a cable box would be a whole lot cheaper than paying $800 for another Moxi. This is another disadvantage of their one size fits all pricing model - you pay full boat for each unit, whereas Tivo discounts lifetime subs by $100 for each additional unit.

So the Moxi mate will not allow the 2nd TV to watch live TV, just recorded TV correct. If so, then you would have to have anyother turner (cable box) correct


Here's what Moxi says about the Moxi Mate: http://moxi.com/us/faq.html#features

26. Does MOXI have multi-room capability?
...At the recent Consumer Electronics Show, we showed our multi-room client product, but haven't announced the release date or price and will do that very soon. When we introduce this product, all the capabilities of the MOXI HD DVR can be accessed in other rooms including the recordings. No time consuming transfers as with TiVo. Recordings would be streamed over your home networks for instant access...


Per FAQ 26, "all the capabilities of the MOXI HD DVR can be accessed in other rooms including the recordings". I interpret that to mean you wouldn't need another cable box and could stream directly from the MOXI using one of its available tuners. In this scenerio, the multi-room client "Moxi-Mate" will be able to control the MOXI from another room (i.e. change channels, view program guide, etc).

This tunerless box will allow you to view any SD or HD recording stored on the Moxi DVR. It "should cost under $100" and be available by summer's end.



I thought that they said the Moxi Mate would have it all as teeitup stated while I was typing this! Also, I do not see where the Moxi Mate would be $100. If so that would be GREAT!!! I think at one time the old non HD version had a Moxi Mate for $79, so perhaps you are correct!

I had two ReplayTVs on a wired network and multi-room streaming was glitch-free as long as you didn't use high quality for recording. But that was with slow processor boxes and was SD, not HD. So I too am curious if the Moxi will be able to provide a seamless experience for a max-rate 1080i HD stream between two boxes.

Tivo's system is a poor substitute for streaming, IMO, because you can't transfer copy-protected shows, and you don't need another copy on the other box anyway.

+1 and I recorded at HiQuality all the time!

Per FAQ 26, "all the capabilities of the MOXI HD DVR can be accessed in other rooms including the recordings". I interpret that to mean you wouldn't need another cable box and could stream directly from the MOXI using one of its available tuners. In this scenerio, the multi-room client "Moxi-Mate" will be able to control the MOXI from another room (i.e. change channels, view program guide, etc).I think you're reading too much into that FAQ. That's not how the older Moxi-Mate works for the cable version of their DVR. Of course, that could change to allow remote viewing of liveTV, but I will be surprised if that happens.

The "all the capabilities" is probably meant as a reference to pause, rewind, fast forward, and skip with recorded TV. Although not a feature of the current Moxi-Mate, I do expect the consumer version to add support for DLNA and PC/NAS video playback.

Per FAQ 26, "all the capabilities of the MOXI HD DVR can be accessed in other rooms including the recordings". I interpret that to mean you wouldn't need another cable box and could stream directly from the MOXI using one of its available tuners. In this scenerio, the multi-room client "Moxi-Mate" will be able to control the MOXI from another room (i.e. change channels, view program guide, etc).

Has anyone tried to call Digeo? Will they answer questions, or will they just tell you to submit via email? Some questions require realtime interaction that email does not provide!

Tagged for further reviews. I am going to FIOS on the 10th of June and already do not like the box just for the storage alone. So I am interested to see if the Moxi is worth the money or just go with Tivo. We had Directivo for years and really enjoyed them, so going back to Tivo would be nice but we are open to new options.

I had two ReplayTVs on a wired network and multi-room streaming was glitch-free as long as you didn't use high quality for recording. But that was with slow processor boxes and was SD, not HD. So I too am curious if the Moxi will be able to provide a seamless experience for a max-rate 1080i HD stream between two boxes.

Tivo's system is a poor substitute for streaming, IMO, because you can't transfer copy-protected shows, and you don't need another copy on the other box anyway.

Until proven that Moxi-Mate streams perfectly I have no problem with TiVo's file transfer system as a means of insuring against dropouts or pixelation. Back when all the ballyhoo was about ReplayTV's new capability of streaming on a LAN (actually the most ballyhoo was about ReplayTV's file sharing across the internet) I never really 'got it', considering the sometimes glitchy results. Yeah, you could send programs over a(n ethernet) wire, but what is intrinsically better about that than sending a video signal over a (coax) wire, or nowadays, HDMI or component video wires (other than reducing the number of wires? :eek:)

Unfortunately the other aspect of TiVo's transfer system, copy-protection, IS a significant problem, depending on a viewer's cable co. Here, Comcast apparently copy protects all premium channels, making MRV useless.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong but) I assume TiVo's file-transfer system isn't sophisticated enough to interact with Comcast's copy protection flagging to disable transfers only between two TiVo's which don't both employ CableCARDS? I've got one S3 with CC's and the other without. There'd be some logic in restricting such transfers (from Comcast's POV), but is that why TiVo's MRV doesn't work for me on premium channels?

The Moxi needs a multi-stream cable card. I talked to local comcast and they have a "dual cable card", is that the same thing?

The Moxi needs a multi-stream cable card. I talked to local comcast and they have a "dual cable card", is that the same thing?Yes. M-CARDs are the only CableCards still in widespread use. All other cards were discontinued ~15 months ago.

At this point, you won't see the older single-stream CableCards (S-CARDs) anywhere unless one was just returned by a customer.

Unfortunately the other aspect of TiVo's transfer system, copy-protection, IS a significant problem, depending on a viewer's cable co. Here, Comcast apparently copy protects all premium channels, making MRV useless.

(Please correct me if I'm wrong but) I assume TiVo's file-transfer system isn't sophisticated enough to interact with Comcast's copy protection flagging to disable transfers only between two TiVo's which don't both employ CableCARDS? I've got one S3 with CC's and the other without. There'd be some logic in restricting such transfers (from Comcast's POV), but is that why TiVo's MRV doesn't work for me on premium channels?Cable providers can flag cable channels as "copy freely" or "copy one generation" (no further copies after DVR copy). Most Comcast cable channels are flagged as "copy freely," so there are no restrictions on the ability to transfer recordings from those channels. In contrast, premium movie channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) are almost always flagged as "copy one generation" which prohibits those recordings from being copied to another DVR; it also prohibits downloads to a computer. These aren't TiVo's requirements; these are CableLabs' requirements, which every manufacturer must agree to before they can sell a CableCard product.

Streaming is permitted for such copy protected programs so long as (a) an authorized encryption system is used and (b) no portion of the program is saved. DTCP-IP is one authorized encryption system, and that is what Moxi will use to stream all recordings.

Of course, it is always possible --although unlikely, imo-- that TiVo will add streaming MRV with DTCP-IP at around the same time that Moxi adds that feature. At the moment, all we can do is compare the TiVo's older MRV implementation to Moxi's non-existent (but promised) implementation.

The Moxi needs a multi-stream cable card. I talked to local comcast and they have a "dual cable card", is that the same thing?

Yes, it's the same thing.

FYI, Moxi doesn't require an 'M' CableCARD to receive unscrambled QAM channels but without a CC won't show the corresponding Basic Cable channel number and program info. However Moxi allows a user to manually map (link) unscrambled QAM channels to their correct channel designation and program descriptions. A CableCARD IS required to receive premium channels and automatically provides the correct channel designation and program info for all received channels.

...premium movie channels (HBO, Showtime, etc) are almost always flagged as "copy one generation" which prohibits those recordings from being copied to another DVR; it also prohibits downloads to a computer. These aren't TiVo's requirements; these are CableLabs' requirements, which every manufacturer must agree to before they can sell a CableCard product.

Streaming is permitted for such copy protected programs so long as (a) an authorized encryption system is used and (b) no portion of the program is saved. DTCP-IP is one authorized encryption system, and that is what Moxi will use to stream all recordings.

Here's some good info about DTCP-IP:
http://www.dtcp.com/dtcpfaq.htm

Also, an example of CrunchGear's amateur reporting:
http://www.crunchgear.com/2007/08/24/so-long-cablecard-here-comes-dtcp-ip/

So I got a Moxi recently and this past weekend hooked it up. After spending a few hours with Comcast support person (who was very helpful) on the phone to activate the MCard, it worked. Except it stops working after about 10 minutes or so and gives me a message saying I am not subscribed to that channel and have to call the service provider to subscribe to it. If I restart my Moxi, it again works for another 5-10 mins before the same thing happens again. Comcast support is supposed to come home tomorrow to see if they can fix it, but I thought I will also ask here if anyone else has seen this before or have any idea why this is happening.

TIA for any help
-s

I do not have a MOXI, as I am waiting to see just what the MINI will do in another room. I think I have seen some say that sometimes it is the cable card, or signal level, that is to blame. Also, sometimes it is too much signal that is the cause. I even had this with a Comcast box. Try a splitter to drop the signal strength to see if it helps. Comcast has attenuators that they can try, but I hope they bring out a new MCard just in cast!

I think I am just about ready to take the plunge. Almost all of my questions have been answered either here in this thread or on the moxi website. The one thing I am not clear on is Moxi's ownership transfer policy. If sometime down the road I decide to switch providers, am I free to sell my Moxi? Are there any limitations on it? Will the person who gets it have any trouble activating it? I searched the Moxi website, but couldn't find anything on it at all. Does anyone here have any insight? Thanks.

To the folks at Digeo, drop the price to $699 and add an ATSC tuner and I'll buy one...

I think I am just about ready to take the plunge. Almost all of my questions have been answered either here in this thread or on the moxi website. The one thing I am not clear on is Moxi's ownership transfer policy. If sometime down the road I decide to switch providers, am I free to sell my Moxi? Are there any limitations on it? Will the person who gets it have any trouble activating it? I searched the Moxi website, but couldn't find anything on it at all. Does anyone here have any insight? Thanks.

You can remove the device from your account and remove all personal settings through the UI (it's under Settings->Moxi Setup->reset).

Whoever you gave it to can then activate it the same way you did at moxi.com.

I just placed an order, via the Moxi website, for the HD DVR. I was directed to PayPal, where the actual transaction took place. As soon as I submitted through PayPal, I was re-directed to Moxi's home page with no confirmation of order. I did, however, receive a confirmation email from PayPal that my transaction was completed and 'sent' to Moxi. I'm wondering when I'll get my order and shipping information?

I got my own question answered with a call to an extremely friendly Moxi rep. Apparently, the PayPal order process is handled completely separately from the Amazon process on the back-end. All of the PayPal orders are actually aggregated through a single woman at the Moxi office, who responds to each order by sending a 'welcome' email and then she sends your info to their distribution center.

So in case anyone uses the PayPal payment feature and is wondering why they didn't receive a confirmation, just be patient and rest assured that your order will be personally handled.

And I must also mention how friendly and conversational the customer service reps are - that's rare these days!

I just placed my order. That is a very odd policy they have in place. Exiting the Paypal website really does leave you scratching your head. I did get a welcome email from Moxi, but it was short on details about my transaction. Basically just a thank you, your Moxi will ship in a day or two and some CableCard info.

The one thing I do need to figure out is how to add the optional analog tuner. I didn't see it anywhere during the signup process and there is no way to register an online account until my Moxi arrives. I guess I will send Customer Service an email or give them a call.

Before buying Moxi I emailed them asking about the analog dongle. I wanted the dongle available during Moxi's 30 day money back guarantee period. They agreed to ship it at the same time as the Moxi box and I received them both at the same time. Moxi waived additional shipping charges for the dongle although I didn't ask them to.

Defenitely email Moxi with your order number and request the dongle. Moxi has the best Customer Service that I've run across in recent years; personable, knowledgable and helpful!

Moxi has the best Customer Service that I've run across in recent years; personable, knowledgable and helpful!

I wanted to look into a Moxi HD, but had a few questions first. IF they had the best Customer Service, they would publish a phone number where you could ask pre-sales questions. Some things are just not easy to ask in ongoing emails back and forth.

I wanted to look into a Moxi HD, but had a few questions first. IF they had the best Customer Service, they would publish a phone number where you could ask pre-sales questions. Some things are just not easy to ask in ongoing emails back and forth.

Did you see CHAT WITH US OR CALL US AT 877-933-4430 (http://moxi.com/us/faq.html)

Did you see CHAT WITH US OR CALL US AT 877-933-4430 (http://moxi.com/us/faq.html)

I guess I did not. :-)

Was that just added? I will look at the site again. I just looked and it is there. I never saw it the first time I went to the site!

Thank you,

MP


*********UPDATE***********

The site now does not have the number and live chat showing again. Do they take it down after hours?

Moxi has the best Customer Service that I've run across in recent years; personable, knowledgable and helpful!

I wanted to look into a Moxi HD, but had a few questions first. IF they had the best Customer Service, they would publish a phone number where you could ask pre-sales questions. Some things are just not easy to ask in ongoing emails back and forth.

Touche!

Moxi plays their cards close to the vest with regards to phone contacts from the general public, I presume to minimize costs. Once a buyer opens an account there's phone contact available at Moxi Customer Support at a different 800 number than posted earlier in this thread:

Agent support available:
Monday - Friday: 6:00AM - 9:00PM PST
Saturday - Sunday: 6:00AM - 4:00PM PST

I'd suggest emailing Moxi, asking for a phone contact. But if that's too much hassle there's always TiVo which makes a great tried-and-true DVR and only offers phone support.

Moxi isn't TiVo and TiVo isn't Moxi. Their philosophies regarding DVRs are significantly different. Some particular TiVo features are much better than Moxi's, but I like the overall Moxi experience better. That's not to say that Moxi is better than TiVo; it isn't; but it's refreshingly different.

It's different for sure, and with the current $500 Father's Day offer for a Tivo HD w/lifetime, it's at least $200 more expensive. :D

Thank you. I may try that number Monday. An email is not a problem and I may request a number to call for pre-sales. IF they know what the MINI will be, I would like to know more about it. I will not buy the full Moxi without knowing just what it will do and the price range. It would have to stream HD and if you could get live TV as well it would be great.

Regarding the $500 TiVo deal, do they buffer 1+ hours? Also, I believe that if you can stream HD to another room, it is with another TiVo. Is that correct?

It's different for sure, and with the current $500 Father's Day offer for a Tivo HD w/lifetime, it's at least $200 more expensive. :D

But don't forget to set aside some of that $200 savings to upgrade the Tivo HD's tiny 160GB drive.

But don't forget to set aside some of that $200 savings to upgrade the Tivo HD's tiny 160GB drive.

...and will it stream HD to an inexpensive box? Also, does anyone know how much of a buffer it has? My Comcast is only 20 minutes of HD!

Regarding the $500 TiVo deal, do they buffer 1+ hours?The TivoHD's buffer is 30 minutes of HD per tuner (1 hour total).

Also, I believe that if you can stream HD to another room, it is with another TiVo. Is that correct?TiVo allows you to transfer recordings to other TiVos and watch the recordings as they transfer. Moxi does not currently allow its recordings to be viewed on another box, but they expect to add streaming capability by summer's end with the lower-cost "Moxi Mate" device.

A comparison of TiVo and Moxi was posted back on page three (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16335482#post16335482) of this thread. This comparison reflects the latest software on both products.

...will it stream HD to an inexpensive box? Also, does anyone know how much of a buffer it has? My Comcast is only 20 minutes of HD!

All TiVo's employ a 30 minute recording buffer (per tuner) which can be turned into a recording if the program being buffered is still ongoing and selected for recording within 30± mins. after it starts.

HDTivo can transfer video files to another HDTiVo or a PC. Depending on a user's location some cable co. copy flags (like Comcast's here) effectively disable TiVo's ability to transfer video files. Moxi's promising a not yet available streaming technology which will ignore copy flag limitations and currently doesn't offer anything like TiVo's somewhat limited transfering capabilities.

Moxi uses a variable length stepped buffer which ranges from approximately from 1.5 to 4 or more hours long (per tuner) linked to a program's actual length, unlike any other DVR. Moxi's buffer length isn't dependent on a program's bitrate; hi-def and standard-def are treated similiarly. Moxi can turn its buffer into a recording only if a buffered program is still ongoing.

I've had the beginning of Moxi's buffer step forward while a long program was being recorded which truncated the recording. After contacting Moxi's Customer Service I was told the problem was corrected. I haven't seen the problem since but don't know for sure if it's been fixed as normally I don't start recording a program from far back in an ongoing buffer.

But don't forget to set aside some of that $200 savings to upgrade the Tivo HD's tiny 160GB drive.

Since the price difference between Moxi and TiVo's Father's Day Special is $300 I bet slowbiscuit already factored that in. TiVo's Father's Day Special is a good deal!

...and will it stream HD to an inexpensive box? Also, does anyone know how much of a buffer it has? My Comcast is only 20 minutes of HD!

I'm in the same boat, replacing my Comcast DVR. Moxi's biggest selling point for me was the 1.5 hr HD buffer per tuner. As far as the streaming goes, they have a Moxi Mate coming out sometime this summer, but pricing and concrete details are scarce right now. I personally don't have any expectations for it. If it turns out well, I'll pick one up. If not, I'll skip it.

I ordered my Moxi on Thursday. I considered the Tivo XL with lifetime, but passed. My top 3 reasons for choosing Moxi were:
1. The HD buffers.
2. The $39 for 20 months installment plan w/ 30 day trial.
3. Universal e-sata external drive support with no marriage to the internal DVR drive.

Since the price difference between Moxi and TiVo's Father's Day Special is $300 I bet slowbiscuit already factored that in. TiVo's Father's Day Special is a good deal!

It is a good deal, but the 160 GB is so small, you are almost forced to upgrade the drive. Even if they made it 250 or 300 GB, you could get by with it. I have to admit though, if they offered the $200 discount on the Tivo XL w/ lifetime, I would have had a much more difficult decision.

I'm in the same boat, replacing my Comcast DVR. Moxi's biggest selling point for me was the 1.5 hr HD buffer per tuner. As far as the streaming goes, they have a Moxi Mate coming out sometime this summer, but pricing and concrete details are scarce right now. I personally don't have any expectations for it. If it turns out well, I'll pick one up. If not, I'll skip it.

I ordered my Moxi on Thursday. I considered the Tivo XL with lifetime, but passed. My top 3 reasons for choosing Moxi were:
1. The HD buffers.
2. The $39 for 20 months installment plan w/ 30 day trial.
3. Universal e-sata external drive support with no marriage to the internal DVR drive.

I like reason 1 and 3 as well. I do think that 75 hours of HD would be great for a while here!

However, to all of those who mentioned the $500 Fathers day Deal...TiVo just now told me that it is NOT for NEW Customers!

The reason we like the big buffer is that my wife and I often get to bed later than we planned and miss the news and/or the start of The Tonight Show. The Comcast 20 minute buffer is not enough and TiVo's 30 minute one is not much better!

If the Moxi Mate is about $100 that would be a BIG plus over having to buy 2 TiVo's and if it would stream Live TV it would be GREAT! A big savings on our Comcast bill!

The reason we like the big buffer is that my wife and I often get to bed later than we planned and miss the news and/or the start of The Tonight Show. The Comcast 20 minute buffer is not enough and TiVo's 30 minute one is not much better!No matter what DVR you buy, you can set it to record those programs. I have my TiVo set to record the daily news and The Tonight Show with "keep one episode," so the news for the current day automatically replaces the news from the previous day. That way, I always have the latest episodes of those daily programs with no clutter or wasted space. You can do that on the Moxi DVR and Comcast DVR, too.

On a high-capacity DVR, the buffer is only useful when you don't know what you want to watch, imo. If there's a program you like to watch, or even watch occasionally, then you record it. With the Motorola DVR, perhaps you had to worry about limited storage, but storage is a non-issue on upgraded TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and Moxi DVRs.

If the Moxi Mate is about $100 that would be a BIG plus over having to buy 2 TiVo's and if it would stream Live TV it would be GREAT! A big savings on our Comcast bill!You should not expect the Moxi Mate to support liveTV. Moxi has only demoed / discussed streaming playback of recordings.

No matter what DVR you buy, you can set it to record those programs. I have my TiVo set to record the daily news and The Tonight Show with "keep one episode," so the news for the current day automatically replaces the news from the previous day. That way, I always have the latest episodes of those daily programs with no clutter or wasted space. You can do that on the Moxi DVR and Comcast DVR, too.

On a high-capacity DVR, the buffer is only useful when you don't know what you want to watch, imo. If there's a program you like to watch, or even watch occasionally, then you record it. With the Motorola DVR, perhaps you had to worry about limited storage, but storage is a non-issue on upgraded TivoHD, TivoHD XL, and Moxi DVRs.

You should not expect the Moxi Mate to support liveTV. Moxi has only demoed / discussed streaming playback of recordings.

OK, well we like the buffer as we don't care that much. Still, that may be something to think about...keeping only 1 episode.

I thought the mention of the Moxi Mate said it would stream all of the capabilities of the Moxi HD. Still, $100 would be a good ROI even if I kept one HD Box from Comcast with no dvr. In that way, I could get On Demand, too.

...
I'd suggest emailing Moxi, asking for a phone contact...

Or you can just look them up in the phone book, call them, and ask for technical support, pre-sales, etc. That worked fine for me :).

However, to all of those who mentioned the $500 Fathers day Deal...TiVo just now told me that it is NOT for NEW Customers!

Try again!

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7320230#post7320230
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7323286#post7323286

On a high-capacity DVR, the buffer is only useful when you don't know what you want to watch, imo. If there's a program you like to watch, or even watch occasionally, then you record it.

That works for you, but I watch anything I bother to record; sometimes not for months. I don't record much but much that I record ends up on DVDs. TiVo or Sony DVRs can send standard-def versions of their hi-def pictures to a DVD recorder in anamorphic 16x9; Moxi can't.

Try again!

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7320230#post7320230

OK, but the last time I called she said NO! ...BTW, where are the instructions for adding a 1TB drive? I assume a 7200RPM WD Black would work fine.

OK, but the last time I called she said NO! ...BTW, where are the instructions for adding a 1TB drive? I assume a 7200RPM WD Black would work fine.Drive upgrade instructions can be found in section V of this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784). Scroll down to the bottom.

Summarized, the upgrade process is as follows: (1) connect the original drive to your computer via SATA or USB adapter, (2) click "backup" in a free program, (3) disconnect the original drive and connect the new drive, and (4) click "restore" in a free program. Drive removal and reinstallation is a piece of cake -- it takes 2-3 minutes once you've got the right torx screwdriver.

I assume a 7200RPM WD Black would work fine.You can use that drive if you've already got it, but it's a bit noisy for a DVR. The post linked above has a list of cool, quiet drives for DVRs. I would suggest one of the 1TB drives rated "10" (lowest) for noise. All cost under $100.

In the future, TiVo questions that don't involve a direct Moxi comparison should be kept to the TivoHD thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879469).

Thank you. I agree about the TiVo thread. However, I did post here as it was suggested that the Fathers Day deal was good...if you can get it. The upgrade is not free and with what has been posted, the Moxi is still a good deal...but for me I want to see how much the Moxi Mate is too. The TiVo would require two full DVR's and then cost much more...and I love the big Moxi buffer!

See what happens with this: https://www3.tivo.com/store/addpackage.do?sku=PPLT03&prm=PCAY4KDHVR3S

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7329243&posted=1#post7329243
https://www3.tivo.com/store/addpackage.do?sku=PPLT03&prm=PCAY4KDHVR3S

(Every time I click the link to test it the quantity upps another TiVo!)

You should not expect the Moxi Mate to support liveTV. Moxi has only demoed / discussed streaming playback of recordings.

I was told that in a few weeks there will be another announcement. As you said, they will not CONFIRM much, but as a hint...do NOT rule out Streaming Live TV, or getting Netflix added! They would not, however, discuss the possible price of the HD Moxi Mate.

I placed my order last Thursday at noon. I got an email almost immediately stating my Moxi would ship in 1 to 2 days and I would receive an email with the tracking number after it shipped. When I did not receive an email over the weekend, I though for sure it would be there Monday night or Tuesday morning. Well, Tuesday morning came and went with still no tracking number, so I used their online chat to see if there was a problem. The very nice CSR checked and said it looked like it would go out late today or early tomorrow. But if I still didn't hear from them by Thursday, I should give them a call. Really? Now I don't consider myself to be overly impatient, but that seems like an awfully long time to process one order. Especially when you only sell one product. Is it just me or does this sound strange to anyone else?

I'm not upset, or even mildly annoyed, over this. Just a little surprised. And I have to admit, after hearing the story of the little old lady who does all the email confirmations, I keep getting this picture in my head of a little old man in a warehouse, stacked from floor to ceiling with Moxi's, slowly pushing a shopping cart up and down the deserted aisles:)

Overall, the engadgethd review of the Moxi does not seem to be that favorable:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/06/22/moxi-hd-dvr-review/

Do those of you that have a Moxi (or tried one) share the review's points of contention and perspective?

Overall, the engadgethd review of the Moxi does not seem to be that favorable:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/06/22/moxi-hd-dvr-review/

Do those of you that have a Moxi (or tried one) share the review's points of contention and perspective?
I was curious about it since I'm seriously considering dumping "pay TV" and am looking at all other HD DVR options (including TiVo and DTVPal DVR). But when I looked deeper, it appears there's no OTA on the Moxi, which is an immediate deal-breaker for me.

Overall, the engadgethd review of the Moxi does not seem to be that favorable:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/06/22/moxi-hd-dvr-review/

Do those of you that have a Moxi (or tried one) share the review's points of contention and perspective?

Yes, but it's not like there's anything better.

Overall, the engadgethd review of the Moxi does not seem to be that favorable:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/06/22/moxi-hd-dvr-review/

Do those of you that have a Moxi (or tried one) share the review's points of contention and perspective?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7345715#post7345715

Moxi is definitely different. On balance I like it a lot. YMMV.

I wouldn't consider Moxi without taking them up on their 30 day return policy. Also I wouldn't recommend Moxi without getting their analog tuning dongle. When I asked about the tuning dongle before buying Moxi they shipped it at the same time so I could use the dongle for the entire 30 day evaluation period. Digeo has unusually knowledgable and personable customer service once a user opens an account with them.

For me Moxi vs. HDTiVo is somewhat analagous to ReplayTV vs. TiVo in the old days. Overall I liked ReplayTV better but admit that TiVo worked marginally better.

Hopefully Moxi will survive the current economic downturn. (ReplayTV still gets support from DNNA (http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/support/replaytv/)!) IMHO ReplayTV's EPG is still better than either TiVo's or Moxi's.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7345715#post7345715

Moxi is definitely different. On balance I like it a lot. YMMV.

I wouldn't consider Moxi without taking them up on their 30 day return policy. Also I wouldn't recommend Moxi without getting their analog tuning dongle. When I asked about the tuning dongle before buying Moxi they shipped it at the same time so I could use the dongle for the entire 30 day evaluation period. Digeo has unusually knowledgable and personable customer service once a user opens an account with them.

For me Moxi vs. HDTiVo is somewhat analagous to ReplayTV vs. TiVo in the old days. Overall I liked ReplayTV better but admit that TiVo worked marginally better.

Hopefully Moxi will survive the current economic downturn. (ReplayTV still gets support from DNNA (http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/support/replaytv/)!) IMHO ReplayTV's EPG is still better than either TiVo's or Moxi's.

And the ReplayTV has CA...what a great feature along with Internet show sharing. I still have my 3 5040's with Lifetime that I am going to sell soon.

Got my 2nd Tivo today thanks to the father day deal. Both are on lifetime. 1st one was $900 (500+$399), a Tivo HD XL the 2nd was $500($199+299), a Tivo HD. So far I'm very happy.

Moxi looks good, but no huge differentiators. I wish them well since competition is good but they will need to have some specials and eliminate bugs to get more sales.

I still have one Replay with lifetime. Sits in the corner. PM me and its yours for typical eBay price.

Got my 2nd Tivo today thanks to the father day deal. Both are on lifetime. 1st one was $900 (500+$399), a Tivo HD XL the 2nd was $500($199+299), a Tivo HD. So far I'm very happy.

Moxi looks good, but no huge differentiators. I wish them well since competition is good but they will need to have some specials and eliminate bugs to get more sales.

I still have one Replay with lifetime. Sits in the corner. PM me and its yours for typical eBay price.

OH, so now we are selling our Replays? :D

I have three and set up my First new TiVo yesterday. I will have all 3 for sale soon. Anyway, I do not want to go too OT, but IF Moxi would have confirmed anything about the other unit due in the fall, I might have sprung for the Moxi. Still a lot to spend while waiting for other features.

Yes, but it's not like there's anything better.
The overwhelming response to the Tivo Father's Day offer (getting a Tivo HD w/lifetime for $300 less than the Moxi) would seem to belie your statement.

Digeo would sell a lot more of these boxes if they dropped the price a couple of hundred, but it looks like they can't make any money on them if they do that.

Right now they're not cost-competitive with Tivo, and feature-wise it's a wash because each box has its own strengths and weaknesses.

Yes, but it's not like there's anything better.

The overwhelming response to the Tivo Father's Day offer (getting a Tivo HD w/lifetime for $300 less than the Moxi) would seem to belie your statement.

Not at all. HDTiVo is normally slightly cheaper with far less storage than Moxi, and during the Father's Day Special was significantly cheaper.

Digeo would sell a lot more of these boxes if they dropped the price a couple of hundred, but it looks like they can't make any money on them if they do that.

Right now they're not cost-competitive with Tivo, and feature-wise it's a wash because each box has its own strengths and weaknesses.

We don't know TiVo's profit margin and/or to what degree their Father's Day Special was profitable. Since the Father's Day Special was in-house with no dealer mark-up TiVo retained all profit earned. Moxi utilizes the no dealer mark-up strategy all the time of course.

Considering Moxi's advantage over TiVo by not requiring one officially authorized, somewhat more expensive, outboard HDD to increase storage plus Moxi's ability to use any number of external HDD's, one at a time, for unlimited storage Moxi's cost is in reality a wash.

When a user fiddles with TiVo and thus voids its warranty TiVo's storage gets cheap. TiVo's potential performance is enhanced from such fiddling as its outboard storage system is clunky and runs an incresased risk of losing everything. It's twice as likely to fail over time as just replacing the internal HDD. If Moxi's outboard storage suffers an HDD failure the user doesn't lose everything.

In the final analysis TiVo nor Moxi are neither cheap nor expensive. It all depends on a user's perspective. I wouldn't buy either because of price.

I prefer to watch a great deal of TV 'live' and like Moxi's approach a lot more than compromising with TiVo. But many TiVo users brag about almost never watching TV 'live'. Moxi isn't as good as TiVo for watching almost everything timeshifted.

Things I like about Moxi:

Its unlimited external storage capability.

Its unusually large recording buffers.

Its ability in a pinch to record three programs at the same time, one from its analog tuning dongle.

Its ability to manually map unscrambled QAM without a CableCARD.

Its ability to manually record Premium channels in standard-def from a cheap cable STB using the tuning dongle, without having to pay an 'Additional Outlet Fee' for a CableCARD device.

TiVo is better than Moxi for:

Total timeshifting.

Its mini-Google search engine for TV programming, probably TiVo's signature and most powerful feature.

Its 'more than DVR' capabilities.

(offered facetiously) Ordering pizza!

--

TiVo currently has MRV (Multi-room-viewing) capability while Moxi only promises a different copy-guard free streaming version of it, perhaps later this year. TiVo's MRV is greatly limited in my location due to Comcast's copy-guard flagging which blocks all Premium channel transfers.

TiVo provides the capability to record anamorphic DVDs from its aspect ratio settings; Moxi doesn't. However anamorphic DVD's recorded on an outboard DVD recorder aren't flagged as such, unlike commercial DVDs, so they're not compatible with other DVD players. Moxi requires that DVD's recorded from it be 'zoomed', thus losing resolution. TiVo can be set to do the same if appropriate.

As posted earlier, I don't like either Moxi's hi-def or TiVo's standard-def EPGs as much as ReplayTV's standard-def version.

I just had a great chat with Moxi support. Some good info: the new software update will include SDV support and should work with the current tuning adapters that Time Warner and other providers send out for the Tivos - apparently Moxi has been working really close with cable providers on ensuring that this will work upon launch of the new software. And while the rep couldn't give me an exact date, he mentioned that it should be out before September. There are also a bunch of other "big" features planned in the release that the rep could not divulge, though I've heard rumors of embedded Netflix interface w/o the need for PlayOn, which would be great.

Just some good news from a very friendly and informative Moxi rep!

I just noticed this on Amazon. They are advertising "NEW--Three Tuners". I wonder if they are just including the analog dongle or if they have added another internal tuner.

http://www.amazon.com/Moxi-MR-1500T3-Three-Tuner-HD-DVR/dp/B002DEMBF8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1246981240&sr=8-7

Good question!
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&search-alias=electronics&field-brandtextbin=Moxi

Looks like Amazon pulled the link to the three tuner Moxi. I did find another reference to it. It has the same model number, but different UPC than the standard Moxi HD DVR. Looks like something is in the works. A third tuner definitely would help justify the price point of the Moxi. Would love to see the third tuner be ATSC capable.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/products/moxi-mr-1500t3-three-tuner-hd-dvr

I think I may be the reason that the stuff from Moxi got pulled from Amazon. I sent the following email to Moxi when I saw the Moxi 3 tuner and the Moxi Mate on Amazon:
----------------------------------------------------------
Hello,

I am a fan of the Moxi DVR and have been using one since 2005 with Charter Cable in Apple Valley, MN. I am interested in buying one but the high price tag for the main unit ($799) has put me off a bit. I have been waiting to see how you introduce the Moxi Mate because I have seen old news releases that state the Moxi Mate I currently have with my BMC9022 only cost $79 per unit and a package deal of the main unit ($799) and 2 Moxi Mates ($200) for a total price of $999 would be a huge advantage over Tivo. Cost of 3 TivoHD boxes is $900 plus the cost of the external hard drive to expand space and Moxi already would have them beat on just hardware cost. $999 is still a big number but it seems like more of a value when you can outfit your entire house for that cost.

The reason I am emailing is that I recently searched for Moxi Mate on Amazon and found a listing for $399 (http://www.amazon.com/Moxi-Mate-MP-1000-Digital-Recorder/dp/B002DR4ACM/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1247067083&sr=8-3) and I would be highly disappointed if that is the true cost because a single Moxi mate would cost more than an independently functioning TivoHD. Is the $399 price real? Thanks!
----------------------------------------------------------

They responded with:

----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Jesse,
Thanks for being a Moxi fan.
We haven’t announced the price and package configurations for the multi-room Moxi Mate and will do so very soon. Thanks for alerting us to the error on the Amazon site and we have had that removed.
We can most certainly keep you updated.
Best regards,
The Moxi team
----------------------------------------------------------

After I got the email I called and asked about the $399 price for the Mate and the agent seemed to think that is what it would be sold as. He did say they may package a 3 tuner unit and a Mate for $1099 which would be a $100 savings but it still seems like a ripoff to have what is essentially a dummy terminal to the main Moxi unit go for more then a fully functioning TivoHD.

Jesse

I didn't notice the Moxi-Mate listing on Amazon. Did it list any specifics on its features/capabilities? The $399 does seem steep, but could be justified if the Moxi-Mate could utilize one of the Moxi's tuners and time-shift live TV. Basically like having a second DVR without a hard-drive. But $399 for a simple extender to be able to watch previous recorded programs won't cut it. I too have been waiting to purchase a Moxi based on some of the promised upcoming features. Hope to hear a formal announcement soon.

It is a box that can fully control a tuner in the main moxi unit, not just view recordings. I did not ask if it had HD output but the Moxi Mate I currently have with my BMC9022 cable box does not do that. The box will be useless if the main unit is not functioning which is why I think the $399 price is rather steep. Especially when they promoted the low cost of the box just a few years ago.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-314176/Digeo-Announces-Moxi-Mate-79.html

Here are the specs:

Spec Value
Loading...
Binding Electronics
Brand Moxi Mate
EAN 0896739001025
Height 1.75 inches
Length 9.75 inches
Weight 5 pounds
Width 7.25 inches
Label Digeo, Inc.
List Price $399.00
Manufacturer Digeo, Inc.
Model MP-1000
MPN MP-1000
Package Quantity 1
Product Group CE
Product Type Name DIGITAL_VIDEO_RECORDER
Publisher Digeo, Inc.
Studio Digeo, Inc.
Title Moxi Mate MP-1000 Digital Video Recorder (Black)
UPC 896739001025
Batteries Included 1
Release Date 2009-07-06
Color Black
Additional Features

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/products/moxi-mate-mp-1000-digital-video-recorder-black

After I got the email I called and asked about the $399 price for the Mate and the agent seemed to think that is what it would be sold as. He did say they may package a 3 tuner unit and a Mate for $1099 which would be a $100 savings but it still seems like a ripoff to have what is essentially a dummy terminal to the main Moxi unit go for more then a fully functioning TivoHD.

If $399 is the correct price, that is ridiculous. They told me it would be low-cost. I thought for sure that meant under $200. But $399?

If $399 is the correct price, that is ridiculous. They told me it would be low-cost. I thought for sure that meant under $200. But $399?

Click on this link:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/products/moxi-mate-mp-1000-digital-video-recorder-black

and look in the specs tab. List Price is $399. When I talked to the rep last night he said it was half the price of the main unit and that was his definition of low cost. When I brought up the old press releases from Digeo pimping the $79 price he said it was an older technology but couldn't say what was new with this Moxi Mate. In my opinion the Moxi Mate should be somewhere between $100-200 and they should create a package deal where you can by a 3 tuner Moxi and 2 Moxi Mates for somehwere between $999-1099. With the 20 month payment plan and the feature of pimping out the entire house I think Moxi might actually have a chance at taking off.

$399 != inexpensive. :(

Moxi with three digital tuners, plus an additional analog channel from the dongle, with 1 GB or more HDD storage, watchable from two rooms for around $1200. Hmmm.

Not cheap, but does anything else offer those capabilities for that price?

Moxi with three digital tuners, plus an additional analog channel from the dongle, with 1 GB or more HDD storage, watchable from two rooms for around $1200. Hmmm.I seriously doubt Moxi would introduce a new model with three internal tuners so soon after the release of the dual-tuner model. They did tell me that they were looking into the possibility of supporting the digital tuner on the Hauppauge tuner (dongle), which I took to mean ClearQAM.

Utilizing the digital capabilities of the dongle would be cost effective. Half a loaf is better than none.

If so the Moxi simultaneous mix would be 2 hi-def Premium channels plus a hi-def Basic channel, with a gig or more of storage, available in two rooms for around $1200.

IMHO there still needs to be simple box that just streams from the primary for a low cost. I don't need two DVRs, I need something that my kids can watch in the other room.

Slingbox SOLO (http://www.slingmedia.com/go/slingbox-solo-purchase)

Slingbox SOLO (http://www.slingmedia.com/go/slingbox-solo-purchase)

It's not a PC, it's a TV.

Yes, I figured that might be the case, but if you had a PC the kids could use Slingbox SOLO is by far the cheapest option. Otherwise there may not be a suitably cheap option available now.

The SlingCatcher is used to provide Slingplayer output to a TV. The SlingCatcher is on clearance now for $130 (http://www.slingmedia.com/go/slingcatcher-purchase). Figure $155 (http://www.amazon.com/Sling-Media-Slingbox-SOLO-SB260-100/dp/B000VXKD8K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1247437989&sr=8-1) for the Slingbox Solo and $130 (http://www.slingmedia.com/go/slingcatcher-purchase) for the Slingcatcher, and you've got remote viewing on another TV (and over the Internet) for $285.

If you already own (or wanted to buy) a Slingbox, then this is a reasonable option. If you have no prior interest in the Slingbox, then I think I might spend the extra $115 to get the Moxi Mate ($400).

Too much work to set up the slingcatcher/slingbox combo and there's no network by the other tv other than coax that feeds the verizon set top thats currently there. Sigh.

Too much work to set up the slingcatcher/slingbox combo and there's no network by the other tv other than coax that feeds the verizon set top thats currently there. Sigh.If you have Verizon FiOS with an Actiontec router, you already have a 100Mbps network to every coax outlet. You can setup a second Actiontec RevC/D router ($20-$30 on ebay) to act as a bridge, creating a 100Mbps connection between the two.

Instructions to do that are at DSLReports.

While I appreciate the knowledge and inventiveness being shown here :), wouldn't it just be simpler to have a cheap set-top box that can receive streams from the Moxi HD DVR? Like, from, say, Moxi? Thanks for trying to figure a solution.


(Late thought -- can a Moxi stream to anything else? Is this a standard protocol? Or vendor specific?)

Does anyone know for sure how the Moxi will stream to the Moxi-Mate. Will it be able to use coax or will it require a networked connection?

Well, technically, the coax can be considered a network connection (MoCA protocol if I remember anything at all.)