I've owned two high-def (HR-21) recorders and one standard-def recorder for the past five months, and here's what I found:

*** Reasons to Buy DirecTV ***
1. Terrific picture.

*** Reasons Not to Buy DirecTV ***

1. All too frequently the receiver must be reinitialized using the reset button; this takes 10 to 20 minutes, so if you are intending to watch a program, you're out of luck.

2. They bill for premium channels not ordered and then state since the channels were available reversal of the charges are not possible.

3. Promised credits never materialize on the bill.

4. None of the equipment is guaranteed beyond 90 days; your choice is to either pay for an ongoing monthly service plan or the full cost of the repairs/replacements.

5. They nickel and dime you to death with extra charges (e.g., more than one receiver, HD reception).

6. The remote is not ergonomically designed, with the buttons being unlit, very stiff and difficult to use for anyone with a joint disorder such as arthritis. Unless you hold the remote number keys down just the right amount of time, either the number will not register or it will be repeated (e.g., pressing channel 2 may result in channel 22). However, pressing the up or down arrow key buttons does not result in cycling through a menu; instead you must press repeatedly to arrive at your selection. Unlike other remotes, this one is not at all forgiving if you do not point it directly at the receiver and TV. It is white and dirties easily.

7. Only one channel is available from local stations that broadcast multiple channels. For example, the local PBS station broadcasts one hi-def channel and three standard definition channels, but only the former is available.

8. The audio and video are not always in sync; sometimes resetting the unit helps, sometimes not.

9. Changing channels is not instantaneous, in fact, not even close, taking 4-11 seconds.

10. Sometimes when the DVR requires resetting, previously recorded programs are not available.

11. Although you "purchase" the DVRs at $200 each when initiating service, you don't really own them and must return them to DirecTV or be charged once again for them.

12. Attempting to record only the new episodes of a series does not work if the same episode appears later in the day or the next day (e.g., some news shows on MSNBC). The DVR will record multiple copies of the same show, unnecessarily using hard disk space.

13. If DirecTV physically damages your audio video equipment on installation, they refuse all responsibility, refusing to pay for repair costs (after initially agreeing to do so and firing the tech). I'm out several hundred dollars in replacement costs.

Caveat emptor!

Nice first post.

So what's it like to work for Comcast?

Don't want to feed a troll, but his #8 is a huge peeve of mine for years with D*.
No provider is perfect obviously, so I stay with them as other providers' downfalls are more in number and worse currently in my specific area.

OP....if this is legit have you sent this to D*?(or at lest made a formal complaint?)

#6 is spot-on too. Horrible remotes.

I have Dishnetwork now and was going to switch to DirectTV this Thursday :confused: because there HD package seems better to me. Now I'm not sure that would be a wise move.... I really have no complaints about Dishnetwork, except when I called them about upgrading to a HD package the salesmen was not giving me straight answers.. on exactly how many channels I would get in HD.

Chuck

#5 is more true of Dish. However, that could be the case for any multichannel provider.

I've owned two high-def (HR-21) recorders and one standard-def recorder for the past five months, and here's what I found:

*** Reasons to Buy DirecTV ***
1. Terrific picture.

*** Reasons Not to Buy DirecTV ***

1. All too frequently the receiver must be reinitialized using the reset button; this takes 10 to 20 minutes, so if you are intending to watch a program, you're out of luck.

E* is far worse with lockups

2. They bill for premium channels not ordered and then state since the channels were available reversal of the charges are not possible.

All CSRs at every company suck

3. Promised credits never materialize on the bill.

See #2

4. None of the equipment is guaranteed beyond 90 days; your choice is to either pay for an ongoing monthly service plan or the full cost of the repairs/replacements.

Not true. Its leased and no extra charge is needed for leased equipment.

5. They nickel and dime you to death with extra charges (e.g., more than one receiver, HD reception).

As does E* and most cable companies

6. The remote is not ergonomically designed, with the buttons being unlit, very stiff and difficult to use for anyone with a joint disorder such as arthritis. Unless you hold the remote number keys down just the right amount of time, either the number will not register or it will be repeated (e.g., pressing channel 2 may result in channel 22). However, pressing the up or down arrow key buttons does not result in cycling through a menu; instead you must press repeatedly to arrive at your selection. Unlike other remotes, this one is not at all forgiving if you do not point it directly at the receiver and TV. It is white and dirties easily.

And you think that E* or the cable companies are better? Different people have different ideas with remotes. I would clearly prefer a different kind than someone with a joint disorder or arthrits. That is why there is an after market for Universal Remotes.

7. Only one channel is available from local stations that broadcast multiple channels. For example, the local PBS station broadcasts one hi-def channel and three standard definition channels, but only the former is available.

Same with E*

8. The audio and video are not always in sync; sometimes resetting the unit helps, sometimes not.

Same with anyone dealing with MPEG4 (and some MPEG2 after errors as well)

9. Changing channels is not instantaneous, in fact, not even close, taking 4-11 seconds.

Depends on the wiring setup to your Dish and your selection of pass through to the TV. If you use a SWM and keep everything at 1 resolution, that is not the case. Most of the time the changes in channels are due to different resolutions and the non-use of a SWM. Anytime you have the STB set to pass native resolution through, you will find a delay as the TV changes resolution.

10. Sometimes when the DVR requires resetting, previously recorded programs are not available.

Only have had that happened once in almost 3 years. I have had it happen more than once with an SA8300HD cable STB. It happens more frequently on E* with the external USB Hard Drives.

11. Although you "purchase" the DVRs at $200 each when initiating service, you don't really own them and must return them to DirecTV or be charged once again for them.

Same with E*. See #4.

12. Attempting to record only the new episodes of a series does not work if the same episode appears later in the day or the next day (e.g., some news shows on MSNBC). The DVR will record multiple copies of the same show, unnecessarily using hard disk space.

Same with any service that uses the same guide info (which is most of them - not a D* issue)

13. If DirecTV physically damages your audio video equipment on installation, they refuse all responsibility, refusing to pay for repair costs (after initially agreeing to do so and firing the tech). I'm out several hundred dollars in replacement costs.

You should have noted it on the installation order when asked to signed that installation was complete and satisfactory. Hire a lawyer

Caveat emptor!
What's your point?

So any HD service using MPEG4 is going to or has sync issues?
Anyway plans on how to fix it in the near future?
My biggest offenders are my HD locals and they have been for almost two years.

Reasons to Buy DirecTV
1. Terrific picture.Except any SD or overly compressed HD channel.11. Although you "purchase" the DVRs at $200 each when initiating service, you don't really own them and must return them to DirecTV or be charged once again for them.I wonder when will someone start a class action suite against them regarding deceptive advertising?? What other product that you "purchase" (not rent or lease as is clearly stated and understood) that you don't actually 'own'?Don't want to feed a trollWhy is he a "troll"?? Just because you disagree with him? Surely sounds as a list a legitimate issues that are backed up with examples.Quote:Originally Posted by Devereux
Caveat emptor!
What's your point?Let the buyer beware............(what else?)

My issue is with the guide and the no notice programming changes.

When I select "channels I get" as my guide preference, I don't want to click on something good and have it tell me "you are not currently licensed for this channel. Please call xxx to order". Argh!! too many times.

I signed up for DirectTv about two years ago because of the promise of so many more HD channels than the other guys. I believe that's true, but when I recieved all the new channels, they took away a couple really good ones like HDNet Movie channel. I asked what happened and they said I could get it back for another however many dollars, but I should now be happy becuase I have baby channel HD and Telemundo HD and 10 other such garbage (to me) channels.

Also when I search for movies within the "channels I get" menu, show those movies. Not the HBO movies that I'm not subscribing for.

THe menu issue should take one guy with some code a day to fix. At least Dish Network had that figured out.

Except any SD or overly compressed HD channel.I wonder when will someone start a class action suite against them regarding deceptive advertising?? What other product that you "purchase" (not rent or lease as is clearly stated and understood) that you don't actually 'own'?Why is he a "troll"?? Just because you disagree with him? Surely sounds as a list a legitimate issues that are backed up with examples.Let the buyer beware............(what else?)

My SD channels look much better than my friends who have Comcast digital cable.

I hardly ever have to reset my receivers (I think 4 times in the last year, once was to get Sunday Ticket working, and once was the reset everyone in the country had to do). I have never had a reset mess any recordings or scheduled recordings up.

Never had any billing problems, or any other problems with the CSRs I have talked to. Like the others said everyone nickel and dimes you to death and will continue to do so. Guess you've never had any kind of service bill before if you didn't expect this (cable, phone, cellular, all have a bunch of hidden fees).

I don't like most of the remotes that come with devices, that's why I bought a Harmony and I love it.

The newer tuners have to sift though a lot more information so changing channels is going to take longer than back in the standard def analog days. If you add resolution changes into the mix it takes even longer. My Comcast HD-DVR took just as long to change channels. Nobody channel surfs anymore, you do all your searching in the guide, that's what it's for.

DirecTV has never claimed that you were purchasing the receiver for $200. It is an up front lease payment, just like you usually have to make on a car or many other leased items. It even says right on the box of the receiver that it is a leased unit and it will have to be returned to DirecTV if you cancel your service. My installed also told me this when he was done and we were going over the paperwork. It is not DirecTVs fault if people don't pay attention to what they are told, or what it says on the box.

If you want to buy a receiver I think you can still buy the HR21-Pro but it costs around $500 I think.

He was called a troll because his first post was one slamming a service/product and he hasn't returned since. If I or someone else who has been here for a long time and posted on many subject would have posted this they probably wouldn't have been called a troll.

He was called a troll because his first post was one slamming a service/product and he hasn't returned since.Shouldn't you at least give him more than a day before you decide that?

So any HD service using MPEG4 is going to or has sync issues?
Anyway plans on how to fix it in the near future?
My biggest offenders are my HD locals and they have been for almost two years.

Not what I said.

When errors are introduced in the MPEG4 stream, the receivers output circuits tend to loose sync easier than MPEG2 (not that MPEG2 did not) and requires a total reboot, not a channel change.

My issue is with the guide and the no notice programming changes.

When I select "channels I get" as my guide preference, I don't want to click on something good and have it tell me "you are not currently licensed for this channel. Please call xxx to order". Argh!! too many times.

I signed up for DirectTv about two years ago because of the promise of so many more HD channels than the other guys. I believe that's true, but when I recieved all the new channels, they took away a couple really good ones like HDNet Movie channel. I asked what happened and they said I could get it back for another however many dollars, but I should now be happy becuase I have baby channel HD and Telemundo HD and 10 other such garbage (to me) channels.

Also when I search for movies within the "channels I get" menu, show those movies. Not the HBO movies that I'm not subscribing for.

THe menu issue should take one guy with some code a day to fix. At least Dish Network had that figured out.

You set the Program Guide to Channels I subscribe to.

Still does not deal with your search issue though.

Shouldn't you at least give him more than a day before you decide that?
Perhaps, but spamming (http://www.rateitall.com/i-26676-directv.aspx) everywhere (http://www99.epinions.com/review/Directv_HR21_700/content_451616083588) across (http://confidentialdirect.info/view.php?asin=B000YG85UM) the Internet (http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000YG85UM/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?_encoding=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending) isn't exactly giving himself credibility (http://reviews.bestbuy.com/3545/8911449/reviews.htm).

Perhaps, but spamming (http://www.rateitall.com/i-26676-directv.aspx) everywhere (http://www99.epinions.com/review/Directv_HR21_700/content_451616083588) across (http://confidentialdirect.info/view.php?asin=B000YG85UM) the Internet (http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000YG85UM/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?_encoding=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending) isn't exactly giving himself credibility (http://reviews.bestbuy.com/3545/8911449/reviews.htm).


RE: the OP being called a troll, making one post and not coming back / posting on multiple places on the net his /her dissatisfaction.


I don't know if the OP was a troll. or a SHILL for a competing company.

I'm more inclined to believe the it was just a case of someone who has "taken" enough BS from a company, got no satisfaction...is "fed-up" and has decided to make public his story as a way of "getting-back" at the company..

***

I think the above as I come from a time BEFORE the internet forums, Google search engines in which companies could make a REALLY CRAPPY Product, or provide REALLY CRAPPY service... and get away with it largely .... because no-one (potential new customers) ever "knew".

Personally I think the net is "great".. you can type a model into a search engine and in within a few seconds obtain info on the product /service... GOOD and BAD.

Back in the old days- there were very few ways to obtain info, and the (bad) companies out there knew it.

.

Perhaps, but spamming (http://www.rateitall.com/i-26676-directv.aspx) everywhere (http://www99.epinions.com/review/Directv_HR21_700/content_451616083588) across (http://confidentialdirect.info/view.php?asin=B000YG85UM) the Internet (http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000YG85UM/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?_encoding=UTF8&coliid=&showViewpoints=1&colid=&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending) isn't exactly giving himself credibility (http://reviews.bestbuy.com/3545/8911449/reviews.htm).That might bolster the argument, but it wasn't brought up before.

I don't know this guy, but considering this is HIS thread (the orginal poster), why are you calling him a troll?
If one has a strong opinion of a subject that is backed up with proof, examples and/or facts, what;s wrong with spreading the word?

If this was titled "13 reasons why to chose DirectTV", I bet no one would bat a eye.
Sounds as alot of unecessary whinning to me. Cheese anyone?

I think the reasons listed here have probably been assigned to many other companies over the years, including Dish and the cablecos. I can say that the remote design is a big reason I chose Dish over going back to DirecTV. When I had DirecTV previously, I had the Tivo DVRs and loved the Tivo remotes. The new DirecTV DVR remotes are horrid in comparison. Dish's DVR remotes are much more intuitive and easy to use if not as good as Tivo remotes.

Ted

My posting was a good-faith effort to alert folks who were contemplating using DirecTV to consider some issues that they might not be aware of and could want to investigate further. As to posting information on several sites, WeAreAlone69 is correct (see below*). Clearly this was not the right forum to make the posting, given the response and tone of several of the members. My apologies.


* The account in the following paragraphs may provide a sense of the genesis of my frustration with DirecTV. (I know it's overly long, but it gives an appreciation of the number of hours I've wasted with DirecTV.) BeachComber suggested hiring a lawyer, but perhaps he hasn't priced the hourly charges of lawyers lately. I could file in small claims court but the filing fees would amount to very nearly one half of the amount sought and there is no enforcement of awards made by the court. I filed complaints with the Better Business Bureau, FCC, and state Attorney General's Office Consumer Affairs Division, all for naught. Perhaps if all DirecTV customers with similar experiences filed complaints with the government agencies, some action might ultimately be taken.

On July 17, 2008, after an earlier no-show appointment, we had two DVRs installed, at which time the technician damaged the woofer of a Boston Acoustics floorstanding speaker. I accompanied the technician to his truck where he made a lengthy call to Ironwood Communications (a DirecTV subsidiary) to report the damage; he was concerned that he would lose his job over the incident but was assured that he would only need to take a drug test. As he left he didn't apologize, but did say that someone from Ironwood Communications would call the next day.

When no one called, I called Ironwood Communications on July 18 and spoke to a terse Crystal Coles, the Property Damage Claims Rep who repeatedly insisted that I needed to send in estimates from three different audio repair businesses. I have a degenerative joint disease and am unable to carry large heavy speakers, which I explained to Ms. Coles. She nonetheless continued to robotically insist that I provide three written estimates and it was my problem if repair shops would not make estimates over the phone. I asked to speak to her supervisor; she routed me to John Dyke, who was aware of the damage, and, who assured me that DirecTV was not "a cheap company" and that DirecTV would reimburse me for the damage. He stated that he would come out to take photos on July 19 so the claim could be processed. He also stated that given the circumstances one written estimate would be sufficient.

On July 19, Mr. Dyke called to say he would be unable to come out but promised to do so on July 20 and would call before coming.

On July 20, a technician, who had not called first, appeared at the door instead and was unaware that he needed to take photos of the damage. Nonetheless he had a camera with him and took photos, stating that Mr. Dyke would call the next day.

On July 21, Mr. Dyke did not call. On July 22, Mr. Dyke did not call.

On July 23, I called and spoke with Ms. Coles and was told Mr. Dyke was unavailable, but that I could leave a message and he would call later. He did not return my call. Ms. Coles again insisted that three estimates were required and was unresponsive when I told her that Mr. Dyke said one would suffice. During this period, I had called numerous repair shops and found only one that was willing to make an estimate without seeing the actual speaker. They contacted Boston Acoustics who reported that the woofers for my speakers were no longer available, and that both woofers would need to be replaced, because the audio profile of the two different series did not match. I also called Boston Acoustics to confirm this.

On July 24, I called and spoke to Mr. Dyke and he readily agreed that both woofers would need to be replaced under the circumstances. When I described some of the additional damage by the installer, Mr. Dyke reported that the installer had been fired the following workday.

Once the audio repair shop had the speaker cost from from Boston Acoustics, they faxed an estimate to Ironwood communications on
July 25. (We subsequently had the woofers replaced at a cost of $306.)

On July 25, I called Ironwood Communications to confirm that they had received the estimate. They had. I also received a letter from Ironwood Communications dated July 23, 2008 assuring me of "prompt and equitable resolution" once I've provided (1) receipt or estimate for the repair of the damage, (2) any other pertinent documentation." At this point they had already taken photographs. The letter contained two errors: instead of referring to the damaged speaker it referred to a damaged modem and the voice phone number listed in the letterhead was for a fax machine.

On July 28, I called to inquire about the status of the claim and was told no one was in the office was aware of the status and that I could leave a message. There was no call back.

On July 29, I called leaving a message for Mr. Dyke. Once again, my message was not returned.

On July 31, I called asking for Mr. Dyke, but was instead routed to Ms. Coles who stated the claim had been submitted and that it would take three to four weeks for a check to arrive, if the damage was accepted as a valid claim! (Ms. Coles could most generously be described as "snippy" and would be better suited for a job that did not require public contact.)

On September 3, having had no response from DirecTV during the previous month, I sent an e-mail detailing the sequence of events to Ellen Filipiak, DirecTV vice president, outlining the sequence of events to date.

On September 4, I received a call from a DirecTV rep responding to the e-mail stating I would be given one month's credit (which I asked for in my e-mail; the credit never materialized) given the poor handling of the situation by DirecTV. He further stated I needed to call Damage Claims. Moments later another rep called stating he would call Ironwood, but there was only a two in 10 chance they would respond. He asked me to resubmit documentation to Damage Claims@DirecTV.com, attention Pete, Tabra.

On September 4, I called Ironwood in Vancouver, asking for Mr. Dyke and was informed that he was not the property claims supervisor and had nothing to do with the claims process, but that the message would be routed to the "appropriate person." Again, the call was not returned.

On September 5, a DirecTV rep called saying that Ironwood denied the claim because the tech stated he did not damage the speaker.
Also on September 5, I received a letter from Frank Boissoneau, Claims Supervisor, from Ironwood's Englewood Colorado office dated August 29 stating that the technician denied damaging the speaker and denying the claim. I called Mr. Boissoneau telling him that I stood next to the technician by his pickup truck as he called Ironwood's Vancouver office to report damaging the speaker. The technician, during a lengthy conversation, asked if he would lose his job over this and was told he would not, but that he would have to take a drug test. Mr. Boissoneau stated that he would call the Vancouver office and revisit the issue; I stated he should talk to Mr. Dyke as Mr. Dyke was well aware that the technician caused the damage. I also faxed Frank Boissoneau a detailed chronology of the events to date, raising four questions:
(1) Why would it now be stated that the technician denied damaging the speaker when I accompanied him to his truck and heard him, during a lengthy phone conversation, report the damage to Ironwood and his concern about losing his job?
(2) Why would Mr. Dyke assure me that DirecTV was not "a cheap company" and that I should not worry about being reimbursed for the damage?
(3) Why would Mr. Dyke agree that both woofers would need to be replaced if Ironwood's technician had not damaged the speaker?
(4) Why would Ironwood subsequently fire the installer the workday following the damage event?

On September 10, I called for Frank Boissoneau, leaving a message on his voicemail, emphasizing once again that he needed to speak to Mr. Dyke in the Vancouver office. Again, the call was not returned.

Not what I said.

When errors are introduced in the MPEG4 stream, the receivers output circuits tend to loose sync easier than MPEG2 (not that MPEG2 did not) and requires a total reboot, not a channel change.

Well, what if this happens more than once everyday? Reboot m,ultiple times daily?

I'd also like to add that if it isn't sunny and no wind I lose my HD, but SD stays intat through almost anything....like not one channel of HD right now because we got an inch of snow and a little ice last night.

I don't know this guy, but considering this is HIS thread (the orginal poster), why are you calling him a troll?
If one has a strong opinion of a subject that is backed up with proof, examples and/or facts, what;s wrong with spreading the word?

If this was titled "13 reasons why to chose DirectTV", I bet no one would bat a eye.
Either way -- this being a new user's first post, it would be reasonable to suspect some ulterior motives.

this being a new user's first post, it would be reasonable to suspect some ulterior motives.I wouldn't and reading his followup, there surely doesn't appear to be.Clearly this was not the right forum to make the posting, given the response and tone of several of the members. It's the right forum, it's just too bad there are way too many, pro big business, upper class elitists here. They seem to ignore the disgusting state of this sorry example of a country we are in.

They need a few shoes thrown at them. :rolleyes:

What state are you in? I have had decent luck with my states (and other states) AG's office. The BBB is a waste of time and I don't know how much authority the FCC has in this matter.

I'll welcome you to the forum in spite of the 'whinners'.

The BBB is a waste of time

Off topic, but is anyone surprised that an organization of businesses, for businesses, doesn't really seem to accomplish jack for the *customers*?

My posting was a good-faith effort to alert folks who were contemplating using DirecTV to consider some issues that they might not be aware of and could want to investigate further....

....Clearly this was not the right forum to make the posting, given the response and tone of several of the members.I would not make that assumption.

AVS is the largest forum of its type on the Internet. We see all sorts of posts here, and for long term readers it's not unusual to come across rants from those with an ax to grind, justified or not. We've actually had subversive members working for companies being discussed try to alter the course of discussion.

The sad part is there are numerous similar examples of service nightmares from all multichannel providers. None of them are exempt.

Sounds to me like Ironwood Communications did really screw this guy over, and that sucks. However I think it's pretty unfair that he is going around blasting DirecTV when this seems to be an installer issue with Ironwood Communicatons. This isn't the first time that people have had trouble with crappy install companies that DirecTV sometimes uses. Make sure DirecTV knows about the problems you had with the installer and if they get enough complaints they will stop using that company. A lot of the time you can request a different company, or buy straight from an installer company if you want to make sure you get a good installer doing the work.

The only thing DirecTV really did wrong was promise a credit and not give it to him, which happens from time to time. Did he ever talk to them about the credit again?

Here's some additional information in response to questions posed by other posters:
I contacted Ellen Filipiak, Senior VP of Customer Relations; I also spoke to two other DirecTV reps. In all cases they stated that they were "unable" to make reimbursement because Ironwood stated the installer did not damage to speaker. Pointing out that Ironwood was part of DirecTV made no difference: they were still "unable" pay for the damage. Also, I spoke to two DirecTV reps reminding them of the promised refund; both stated they couldn't "confirm" it. After spending tens of hours with Ironwood/DirecTV and filing complaints with the BBB, state attorneys general's office, and FCC, it was clear that subsequent appeals would fall on deaf ears and that any continuing efforts would be an exercise in futility. Hence, posting on several sites (since it's unlikely that everyone looking for information on DirecTV would necessarily find the AVSForum. (By the way, part of the delay in responding to follow-up posts occurred while my follow-up was being reviewed prior to posting.)

The current Oregon Attorney General has a reputation for not being very active. A new Attorney General with a strong consumer protection orientation has been elected, so maybe that will help in the future. The FCC stated that, although they take no direct action themselves, they collect information regarding complaints and make them available to attorneys who might be involved in a class action lawsuit.

You set the Program Guide to Channels I subscribe to.

Still does not deal with your search issue though.

THat's what I'm trying to tell you. I've selected Channels I subscribe to and it still shows a variety of channels that either I don't subscribe to or I do subscribe to but the reciever doesn't think so. Either way it's screwy.

The search issue is equally annoying.

Hence, posting on several sites (since it's unlikely that everyone looking for information on DirecTV would necessarily find the AVSForum.I would suggest posting your comments in the local topic for your area.

Well, what if this happens more than once everyday? Reboot m,ultiple times daily?

I'd also like to add that if it isn't sunny and no wind I lose my HD, but SD stays intat through almost anything....like not one channel of HD right now because we got an inch of snow and a little ice last night.

yes, because the fade on Ka channels is 3x the fade on the Ku channels.

You can get the SD channels Ku on 101/110/119. The HDs MUST COME from 99/103 which are Ka.

Here's some additional information in response to questions posed by other posters:
I contacted Ellen Filipiak, Senior VP of Customer Relations; I also spoke to two other DirecTV reps. In all cases they stated that they were "unable" to make reimbursement because Ironwood stated the installer did not damage to speaker. Pointing out that Ironwood was part of DirecTV made no difference: they were still "unable" pay for the damage. Also, I spoke to two DirecTV reps reminding them of the promised refund; both stated they couldn't "confirm" it. After spending tens of hours with Ironwood/DirecTV and filing complaints with the BBB, state attorneys general's office, and FCC, it was clear that subsequent appeals would fall on deaf ears and that any continuing efforts would be an exercise in futility. Hence, posting on several sites (since it's unlikely that everyone looking for information on DirecTV would necessarily find the AVSForum. (By the way, part of the delay in responding to follow-up posts occurred while my follow-up was being reviewed prior to posting.)

The current Oregon Attorney General has a reputation for not being very active. A new Attorney General with a strong consumer protection orientation has been elected, so maybe that will help in the future. The FCC stated that, although they take no direct action themselves, they collect information regarding complaints and make them available to attorneys who might be involved in a class action lawsuit.

Ironwood is local. Directv is not.

File a claim in Small Claims court against them.

That will get their attention.

yes, because the fade on Ka channels is 3x the fade on the Ku channels.

You can get the SD channels Ku on 101/110/119. The HDs MUST COME from 99/103 which are Ka.

Yup, I knew that from asking before and overall I like D*, why I have had it for years......but the HD audio/video sync issues are everyday and really make me angry sometimes when they are so bad/off that my AVR can't resolve it.

3. Promised credits never materialize on the bill.



This has been my experience as well. It seems like they are hoping customers won't notice they're not getting the credits. Worst of all, when I call again, instead of apologizing they tell me there is no record that I was supposed to get a credit and/or that the CSR wasn't supposed to offer me a credit. Once they even fabricated a story that I had called and accepted a smaller credit.

I have been thinking about switching from Time Warner Cable to Direct TV for a year or so. As time has gone by I have had numerous conversations with DTV users and every one of them had had an issue or two to complain about. Now after reading all this I can see that those that have made the investment into a dish system look to justify the expense and minimize the issues they have.
TWC is far from perfect and I have a real issue with the number of "real" HD channels (I don't care about PPV or shopping networks). They have been adding channels on a regular basis lately and although I have had an issue or two over the last fifteen years or so, I have had none of the serious issues others have had with DTV. The HD channels look great on my 123" screen and if they continue to add "real" network channels I think I'll stick with them.

I have been thinking about switching from Time Warner Cable to Direct TV for a year or so. As time has gone by I have had numerous conversations with DTV users and every one of them had had an issue or two to complain about. Now after reading all this I can see that those that have made the investment into a dish system look to justify the expense and minimize the issues they have.
TWC is far from perfect and I have a real issue with the number of "real" HD channels (I don't care about PPV or shopping networks). They have been adding channels on a regular basis lately and although I have had an issue or two over the last fifteen years or so, I have had none of the serious issues others have had with DTV. The HD channels look great on my 123" screen and if they continue to add "real" network channels I think I'll stick with them.

I know few TWC customers as happy as you. You should count your blessings that you have had such good luck. While no service provider is perfect, I have had much better luck with DirecTV and Dish than with Cable.

Ted

I'm with Ted. I've been a lot happier with DIRECTV than I ever was with TWC. And no, I'm not of the mind that my provider is perfect, just the best fit for me.

I'm with Ted. I've been a lot happier with DIRECTV than I ever was with TWC. And no, I'm not of the mind that my provider is perfect, just the best fit for me.
That's where I am. D* is certainly not perfect - no provider is - but I'm happier with them than I ever was with cable.

To the OP: I hope you'll forgive me for my initial response to your post. Unfortunately, we do get people that post here specifically to make a certain provider or channel look good - or bad. Some of those people do work for the competition.

As pointed out by others here, many of your complaints should be directed to your installer, though, not D*. Of course, I would certainly let them know about a problem installer, but D* can't babysit these guys.

As far as programming and credit issues, that is something you need to keep on D* about. While I've never had the issues you speak of, it's important to keep tabs on what is happening and ask (politely) to speak to someone higher up if you don't get results.

No provider is perfect, or we'd all use them. To expect it will only result in disappointment.

Quote: by Beachcomber post #7

Originally Posted by Devereux
12. Attempting to record only the new episodes of a series does not work if the same episode appears later in the day or the next day (e.g., some news shows on MSNBC). The DVR will record multiple copies of the same show, unnecessarily using hard disk space.
<and clutter and confusion>

Same with any service that uses the same guide info (which is most of them - not a D* issue)


In 6 years times 2 DVRs, with UTV I've never had that happen. Likewise, lack of a Remind function is another big weakness, with clutter and waste of my time.

I understand the HR22 still lacks a search-record for future events not yet in the EPG. For example Formula One events which don't start until some date unknown to me next February. Or March.

Well! I can tell this is going to be a fun topic...
Anyway, I've only had DTV for a few days but I already like it better than Comcast... My two cents:


*** Reasons to Buy DirecTV ***
1. Terrific picture.

2. More HD channels, most with better picture than cable (Comcast 3-packed areas)
3. MUCH better DVR.
4. Cheaper.


*** Reasons Not to Buy DirecTV ***

1. All too frequently the receiver must be reinitialized using the reset button; this takes 10 to 20 minutes, so if you are intending to watch a program, you're out of luck.
I take it you never used a Motorola DVR. Resetting them is a weekly ritual, daily somtimes even.

2. They bill for premium channels not ordered and then state since the channels were available reversal of the charges are not possible.
Yeah I'm sure they randomly add premium channels to your bill :rolleyes:

5. They nickel and dime you to death with extra charges (e.g., more than one receiver, HD reception). I take it you've never looked at a cable bill? :rolleyes:

6. The remote is not ergonomically designed, (blah blah)
The remote is OK, and there's always universal remotes.

7. Only one channel is available from local stations that broadcast multiple channels. For example, the local PBS station broadcasts one hi-def channel and three standard definition channels, but only the former is available.Nobody watches those subchannels anyway - really, another weather channel? IMO skip that crap and use the b/w for more HD channels.

8. The audio and video are not always in sync; sometimes resetting the unit helps, sometimes not.Apparently this is a common complaint but I can tell you right now sometimes this is at the source - ie the originating channel. TBS/TNT in particular are notorious for this, happens on cable too.

9. Changing channels is not instantaneous, in fact, not even close, taking 4-11 seconds.Using "native" output does increase the lockon time, but channel changing isn't instant with cable DVR either.

11. Although you "purchase" the DVRs at $200 each when initiating service, you don't really own them and must return them to DirecTV or be charged once again for them.Don't know what your deal is but I own mine.

12. Attempting to record only the new episodes of a series does not work if the same episode appears later in the day or the next day (e.g., some news shows on MSNBC). The DVR will record multiple copies of the same show, unnecessarily using hard disk space. Again, common with cable DVRs as well. Half the time you tell it to record only "new" episodes but it records every single one. Once I even had it record 2 copies of the same show - at the same time! No DVR is perfect.

13. If DirecTV physically damages your audio video equipment on installation, they refuse all responsibility, refusing to pay for repair costs (after initially agreeing to do so and firing the tech). I'm out several hundred dollars in replacement costs.Ah, so I think we found the motivation for your little rant here... :rolleyes:

Caveat emptor!As with everything.

THat's what I'm trying to tell you. I've selected Channels I subscribe to and it still shows a variety of channels that either I don't subscribe to or I do subscribe to but the reciever doesn't think so. Either way it's screwy.

The search issue is equally annoying.

You mean, just like it works with E*.....another company that hasn't had the coders do the same thing you claim would take 1 evening?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1099550

Sounds to me like Ironwood Communications did really screw this guy over, and that sucks. However I think it's pretty unfair that he is going around blasting DirecTV when this seems to be an installer issue with Ironwood Communicatons. This isn't the first time that people have had trouble with crappy install companies that DirecTV sometimes uses. Make sure DirecTV knows about the problems you had with the installer and if they get enough complaints they will stop using that company. A lot of the time you can request a different company, or buy straight from an installer company if you want to make sure you get a good installer doing the work.

Ha. Ha. Ha. Good luck requesting a different company.

I was surprised by the OPs claim that Ironwood was a DirecTV subsidiary. But a little googling shows Ironwood is owned by 180 Connect, which was acquired by DirecTV earlier this year.

I happen to live in the OPs area, and did exactly what you suggest, I found an independent installation company who knew what they were doing, and who I could have do exactly what I wanted. But it cost me hundreds of dollars to "do it right". Most people aren't prepared to pay that.

That was many years ago. Recently I had the installer come back and move my dish when my growing trees blocked the signal. He told me his company doesn't do DirecTV any more (they now mostly do commercial dishes such as for motels and gas stations). DirecTV has reduced/eliminated choice in installers.

Here is DirecTVs take on installers, I won't provide the link, I found it with Google and I'm sure you can find it also:

"The acquisition of 180 Connect enables DIRECTV to gain operational control over a large portion of its installation and service network and is an important part of our effort to continuously improve the customer experience," said Mike Palkovic, Executive Vice President, Operations, DIRECTV, Inc. "Our installation technicians are the first and often the only point of face to face contact that a customer has with DIRECTV and this merger underscores the importance we place on this interaction. We welcome 180 Connect's employees to the DIRECTV family and with its solid base of technicians in the field and strong back-office support, we believe we have a great opportunity for growth and to provide an even higher level of service that our customers have come to expect."

After spending tens of hours with Ironwood/DirecTV and filing complaints with the BBB, state attorneys general's office, and FCC, it was clear that subsequent appeals would fall on deaf ears and that any continuing efforts would be an exercise in futility. Hence, posting on several sites (since it's unlikely that everyone looking for information on DirecTV would necessarily find the AVSForum.

Thanks for posting. I, for one, appreciate it. Also I think it's fine that you have complained in multiple forums. This type of "viral" information is one of the very few equalizers the "little people" have against "the man". There are very few, if any, big companies that, fundamentally, care at all about individual complaints. The only thing that has a chance of working is the "squeaky wheel".

I would suggest posting your comments in the local topic for your area.
Ironwood has 3,500 technicians in 54 branches in 22 states. In addition, they are owned by DirecTV.

In my opinion, admittedly based on information provided by just one side of the dispute, the "we don't care, we don't have to" attitude documented by the OP is more than just something local to the Vancouver office of Ironwood.

Sounds to me like Ironwood Communications did really screw this guy over, and that sucks. However I think it's pretty unfair that he is going around blasting DirecTV when this seems to be an installer issue with Ironwood Communicatons. This isn't the first time that people have had trouble with crappy install companies that DirecTV sometimes uses. Make sure DirecTV knows about the problems you had with the installer and if they get enough complaints they will stop using that company. A lot of the time you can request a different company, or buy straight from an installer company if you want to make sure you get a good installer doing the work.

The only thing DirecTV really did wrong was promise a credit and not give it to him, which happens from time to time. Did he ever talk to them about the credit again?
I disagree.

If I hire a general contractor and one of the subcontractors fails to perform adequately, I expect (and paid for) the general to resolve the issue with the sub, especially when I did not get to select the sub.

I have dealt with numerous DirecTV installation issues, including repeated no shows, not having the correct equipment, not knowing how to configure their euipment, not having adequate tools or supplies, and so on.

Ironwood is the installation company, but I hired DirecTV and they hired Ironwood. I too attempted to first work out most issues locally with Ironwood, with little response from them. I then escalated to their Denver headquarters and finally to DirecTV, escalating one of those incidents to the DirecTV office of the VP.

I still have and prefer DirecTV service, but I resent having to deal with problems that should never have occurred and people and companies that demonstrate by their actions that they could care less.

DirecTV owns these problems and must accept their responsibility and accountability. If I did not have the technical background to understand how these things should work to enable me to train their installers on the spot, I don't know whether I would have working service.

All of that said, I came to DirecTV because my Comcast cable service at the time was even worse--both the reliability and quality of the delivered signals and the competency (lack of) and customer focus (not) of their employees.

I am not impossible to please. I realize that front-line employees like CSRs and technicians are typically victims of inadequate corporate support and commitment. I hold the companies responsible, and I am respectful and pleasant but firm with their employees that I deal with.

I just want it to work without me having to manage their quality and internal accountability problems.

I disagree.

If I hire a general contractor and one of the subcontractors fails to perform adequately, I expect (and paid for) the general to resolve the issue with the sub, especially when I did not get to select the sub.

I have dealt with numerous DirecTV installation issues, including repeated no shows, not having the correct equipment, not knowing how to configure their euipment, not having adequate tools or supplies, and so on.

Ironwood is the installation company, but I hired DirecTV and they hired Ironwood. I too attempted to first work out most issues locally with Ironwood, with little response from them. I then escalated to their Denver headquarters and finally to DirecTV, escalating one of those incidents to the DirecTV office of the VP.

I still have and prefer DirecTV service, but I resent having to deal with problems that should never have occurred and people and companies that demonstrate by their actions that they could care less.

DirecTV owns these problems and must accept their responsibility and accountability. If I did not have the technical background to understand how these things should work to enable me to train their installers on the spot, I don't know whether I would have working service.

All of that said, I came to DirecTV because my Comcast cable service at the time was even worse--both the reliability and quality of the delivered signals and the competency (lack of) and customer focus (not) of their employees.

I am not impossible to please. I realize that front-line employees like CSRs and technicians are typically victims of inadequate corporate support and commitment. I hold the companies responsible, and I am respectful and pleasant but firm with their employees that I deal with.

I just want it to work without me having to manage their quality and internal accountability problems.

Again, Directv has offices in LA, perhaps Denver and most likely Delaware.

Ironwood has operations in your state.

You can

1) Hire an attorney in LA, Denver or Delaware to sue them for damages at a cost of maybe $5k+.

or

2) Go to small claims court against Ironwood who is local for a simple filing fee with no attorney needed.

Go after Directv if you so desire (its always an option if you loose - sort of an appeal). But if you want to do it in a financially responsible way, go after Ironwood in Small Claims Court, regardless of who is owned by who.

Quote: by Beachcomber post #7

Originally Posted by Devereux
12. Attempting to record only the new episodes of a series does not work if the same episode appears later in the day or the next day (e.g., some news shows on MSNBC). The DVR will record multiple copies of the same show, unnecessarily using hard disk space.
<and clutter and confusion>

Same with any service that uses the same guide info (which is most of them - not a D* issue)


In 6 years times 2 DVRs, with UTV I've never had that happen. Likewise, lack of a Remind function is another big weakness, with clutter and waste of my time.


Are we to assume you used all providers and services in the past 6 years? Seems from your post you have only used 1, UTV, so your experience is very limited.

ok, just my experience with D*, take it for what it's worth, and to shorten the story i'll only tell the 2 most important details although there were other issues also.....
Went to BB and BOUGHT all the receivers I needed for my house and had installation done. A week or so later began having issues with the HD box that was in my den, all other boxes were SD. Anyway, after it went out the first time and had no tv for a day and half a tech came...took about 2 hours but looks like he fixed problem...a couple hurs after he leaves it goes out again.....again I call or a tech and I am without tv in the main room for another day or so.....next tech comes and says it's the HD box and i need to replace, except they are not allowed to carry on the truck so i have to call cust. serv and have one sent.....So I send in the HD box that i just paid a couple hundred bucks for and they send me back a downgraded box, and on top of that it was a refurb...... long story longer, after another day i had same problem...called again and another tech comes and finally fixes the problem, which wasnt the box at all.....so i call CS again and they wont send me an equivalent box of what i had bought not 2 weeks earlier!
So I dealt with all this and techs that had no clue, and spending probably 20 hours on the phone with them over the next 2 weeks trying to get what i paid for....All they kept doing was listen to the details and then transfer me to "someone authorized to handle this"....I would spend 2 - 3 hours every time i called just caught on the telephone hamster wheel of customer service. The last time I called and got nowhere I gave up but after talking with a good share of idiots in the process i told them to mark on my record that as soon as FIOS was available I was going to switch.
Abot 7-8 months later I had fios installed and the minute it was up and running and the fios tech left i ws on the phone with D*, canceling the service. Well, the guy in that dept whose job it s to try to get you to stay was offering me heavy discounts. I just kept cutting him off to say just cancel me. He asked why i was so determined to leave and i told him the story. Then I laid the kicker on him. I said can you explain to me why I bought my boxes but yet on my bill for almost a year I am being charged 5 bucks per box rental fee. He said that is their policy no matter if you bought the box outright or not. It is sort of a user fee.
My reply was "now do you see why I am leaving"....after a 3 second pause he gave me a deflated "yes"

What DirecTV box did you "BUY"? The only one I know of that you could ever buy (at least of the MPEG 4 boxes) was the HR21-Pro. It ran around $600.

If you had the HR21, HR22, etc you did not "BUY" it, you paid the $199 up front leasing fee that everyone else who has that box pays. Sometimes DirecTV offers rebates etc. that reduce that up front lease so you might not have had to pay the full $199. I got two HD DVRs for $99 each when I signed up, but this was an up front lease and I do not own the boxes. I also have to pay a monthly lease fee for each box after the first box. If I cancel my service I have to return the boxes. DirecTV switched to the leased box system a few years ago.

im not sure what model, this was approx 18 months ago.....but hr21 sounds familiar....
i did not know that 199.00 was a "leasing fee"...but even with that and then still paying for each box monthly is ridiculous....thats like going to a restaurant and paying to walk through the door and then paying for the meal....how many times would i go back to that restaurant? answer is none

by the way, after i canceled service they never asked for the equipment back. So that is one of the reasons i assumed i had bought the stuff, not leased and I know the boxes weren't outdated

I guess sometimes they don't bother asking for the units back if they are getting phased out, so that might be why they didn't ask for yours back. The HR20 was replaced by the HR21, which was replaced by the HR22, and they are soon to be replaced by the HR23.

It's the right forum, it's just too bad there are way too many, pro big business, upper class elitists here.

We don't need political tripe in this forum.

Speaking for myself, I am pro-business. However, D* has some serious issues with the quality of their installers. I had a new installation performed in August, and it STILL isn't right, after multiple calls to the local shop and D* support, as well as efforts made on their support forum (which is completely worthless, IME).

I won't go into detail, but for an example, the last time the D* installer came out to our house he grounded the installation to our main gas pipe. Brilliant!:mad:

Either way -- this being a new user's first post, it would be reasonable to suspect some ulterior motives.

Why do you say that? Is there some sort of hazing/initiation that needs to go on before a poster's words can be believed? Last month, I bought my first Blackberry; a Bold. I returned it after 6 days, as the sound was muffled on the other end; people couldn't hear me well. I liked the phone, so much so that before I returned it, I posted a message on BlackBerryForum, asking if anyone else had experienced this. After getting no response, I figured I had gotten a bad one, so returned it for a replacement. The second one had a loose battery, causing it to reboot itself whenever it was even slightly jostled. Two bad phones in 6 days was enough for me to say the heck with BB, and I returned it and got my money back. BlackBerryForum has a Rants and Raves section, and I posted a thread that detailed my problems, wished everyone else luck with theirs, (the battery issue was definitely not isolated to me), and said I was done with BB.

The resulting messages would make you think that I had insulted someone's Momma! A recurring theme was "good luck with your Sidekick". I never mentioned a Sidekick; have never even looked at one, so I can only imagine that the Sidekick is deemed to be inferior by those big, burly, Blackberry users! Pathetic...

If there is a threshold that one needs to be past on message boards, so as to not be called a troll, can we ask for our post count to be at that level when we sign up? Like when you start up a checking account, and order your checks? ;)

I am thankful for original poster, these are issues that i would like to know as i am deciding
between Direct and dish. I am concerned about locking in for 2 years with direct,and paying premium price once my 1year special price is up. IS dish no commitment plan for real
or is it some hidden contract.
Not sure if i am a troll as this is my first post, pls correct me if i am thanks

Dish's "no commitment" is real for sure - I believe you just don't get the installation fee refunded. It used to be $75.00's worth of the fee (which is all or some of it, I don't remember) - I don't know if that's changed.

Make sure you specify you don't want it though, or they'll probably try to stick you with it otherwise.

Another thing - most people probably assume you have to get the DVR with the Turbo Packages - you don't - you can just get a non-DVR single or dual-tuner if you want. And there will be no fee for the first one of either of those, like there would be with a DVR.

Rammitinski
Thank you for your reply, its greatly appreciated :)

I can certainly sympathize with the original poster and others who have had problems with DirecTV. I have been a DirecTV subscriber for 12 years and have had nothing but bad experiences with DirecTV customer service and their installers. I could go on for pages about the many broken promises, no-shows, defective equipment, unauthorized charges, etc. I stay with DirecTV only because I get HD DNS stations that I would be unable to get with Dish or Cable. I recommend to all my friends that they try someone else. When all 4 of our local network channels finally go HD, I will be very willing to change to another provider.

I've had DTV for 5+ years and while I wish they did things differently it's the only service that has what I want and they do it pretty good. The OP is grinding his axe and venting IMHO.

I'd grade DTV B- for 2008.